@her34her34 Basically, you capture the dog running fast towards you. For example, you are running away and they they are chasing and you pair the cue 'hurry' with the running toward you behaviour. You could do this as the dog is returning to you for food or with a ball as well.
@1987grannash Video editing. It was part of the repetition circle-loopy training as it is known. Just happened that the 'after' tug got edited out. The first tug rewarded the previous retrieve.
These are great step-by-step videos of a basic retrieve, but as the title calls it a bird dog retrieve, I was expecting to see work with real birds, not just mentioning them at the end in passing, as further training. Most people have no problem training what you've shown here - it's the freshly killed birds (warm, limp, feathery, not cleanly shot - yuck!) that often pose the biggest problem.
@1987grannash Thanks! That's because most people don't know how to train the basics, especially not using positive reinforcement. Some trainers believe birds are added after the basic retrieve behaviour has been generalized and some people do not have easy access to real birds so they start the training before they introduce them. It's all about foundation skills. I'd love to see a video about training with real birds and R+! Let me know if you make one!
@supernaturalbc2009 she is half lab half dachsund, she is doing retrieves that i am gradually making longer but the problem is she doesnt wait until my call to retrieve. She sits next to me but when i throw it she immediately goes to running.
@supernaturalbc2009 i have a weird mix of dog and i would like to see what abilities she has to go in the field i have her doin very simple retrieves but i could definentely use help. What should i start with?
@Dsexton12 Start right at the beginning and progress step by step. Even if she is not a natural retriever, this approach will help her learn. And it will be a positive experience for her. I'd advise against throwing into it (i.e. using a real bird etc) as she could develop some bad habits or you risk turning on a genetic behaviour you didn't know was there. Once turned on, they are very difficult to turn off, if not impossible. Eg, if she learns to love tearing apart or chasing a bird.
Hi i have just re homed two english cocker spaniels which i want to try and train. For Alfie )the dog) I know if i throw the bumper he will want to go get it straight away. How do you stop that (i will try your part 1 stuff first but just wondered what you do if they just run for it) i guess you dont click?
@mavuk100 Break the behaviour into even smaller pieces. Teach the sit stay first and proof it with placing food, then objects then the bumper or ball. Then start gently throwing the each item type a short distance (one foot, then two feet, then three. If the dog fails, go back to the distance where he can succeed. When solid on distance, then increase the intensity of the throw and increase the value of the object. low value food, med value food high value food, toy, ball, bumper for example.
@supernaturalbc2008 , ok thanks will give that a go. I notice in your videos you do that. Couple more questions if i may please. If your trying to train something and the dog doesnt do it, you dont click and give treat? (in your videos most times the dogs seem to do what your trying to train, without any failures). Lastly i have two dogs, i guess they need training individually otherwise they will compete with each other ? Thanks Kevin
@mavuk100 If your dog doesn't do something you are trying to train you need to look at several things: is the environment too distracting, is the reward high enough to keep interest, is what you are asking too hard? etc. Make it as easy as possible to succeed in tiny steps and the dog learns much faster than 'lumping' behaviours. When the dog progresses easily through to a new behaviour, it is called "errorless learning". The dog should succeed at least 50% of the time (or more)
As to training 2 dogs. yes, train the separately first (behind a door or barrier), then when they have an understanding of the behaviour, have one lay on a bed and reward him for staying calm while you train the other. Start by alternating between the dogs for rewards at first, then fade the reward for the dog laying still until it's unpredictable. I also use this to help one dog learn new behaviour by observing the other. Good luck!
Thanks so much, this is exactly what I was looking for. The rescue lab is a natural at swimming and retrieving, but I want to refine his retrieve. I have been learned my training from Michael Ellis videos, I have considered his methods and style to be top notch, especially compared to countless hacks out there. But...your approach and clarity are awesome! I will make sure and investigate your other posts. Cheers!
@MsTillyboo Try to time your click for when the dog is holding the dummy, not tugging on it. Then when you click, the dog should release the dummy. With a few reps, the dog will learn that the hold is what you want, not the tug.
This is compounded when you have a fearful dog who is having trouble focussing in the new environment. We assume they are 'stubborn' when they can't think because they are scared or distrated. Starting from the beginning at each new location sets the dog up for success and the dog will progress more quickly at each new location.
Dogs don't generalize well. That means even though they 'know' a behavior in one location, it doesn't translate into another. A 'sit' in the living room is not a 'sit' in the yard. Each time the dog relearns it in a new location, it will happen more quickly and you can skip steps. After relearning it in many new locations, the dog will eventually remember what the behavior is. Humans forget that other animals don't generalize well and this gets us into trouble.
Hi, I am new to clicker training and trying to get past our dummy training issues. He won't return the dummy to me in the field preferring to run about with it and toss it about and finally lying down and chewing it.
I have started from the basics but he tries to tug the dummy from my hand, how should I deal with this ?
Excellent i love this. Have done what you said recalling dog off the bumper before it gets it..but have not thought of getting someone else to throw the bumper out..what a good idea.
Only prob with the idea that the tugging is more rewarding than retrieve is that my dogs are the opposite they really really love retrieving, much more than tugging on a toy!!!
Thanks. Whatever is more moivating for your dog. Some dogs are actually more motivated by the retrieve (but Jessie is not one of them) I actually had a comment in there qualifying "if tugging is more fun for your dog" but it got edited out at some point due to time.
Hi, in step 13 you say how you taught 'hurry' in a different room using classical conditioning and then chained it in the video.
I searched your other videos and couldn't find anything on how to teach it. Would you describe the exact steps on how to teach 'hurry'?
her34her34 3 weeks ago
@her34her34 Basically, you capture the dog running fast towards you. For example, you are running away and they they are chasing and you pair the cue 'hurry' with the running toward you behaviour. You could do this as the dog is returning to you for food or with a ball as well.
supernaturalbc2009 3 weeks ago
Why did you not reward with tug in 18B? You tugged before but not after, which is backwards as far as Premack goes.
1987grannash 2 months ago
@1987grannash Video editing. It was part of the repetition circle-loopy training as it is known. Just happened that the 'after' tug got edited out. The first tug rewarded the previous retrieve.
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
These are great step-by-step videos of a basic retrieve, but as the title calls it a bird dog retrieve, I was expecting to see work with real birds, not just mentioning them at the end in passing, as further training. Most people have no problem training what you've shown here - it's the freshly killed birds (warm, limp, feathery, not cleanly shot - yuck!) that often pose the biggest problem.
1987grannash 2 months ago
@1987grannash Thanks! That's because most people don't know how to train the basics, especially not using positive reinforcement. Some trainers believe birds are added after the basic retrieve behaviour has been generalized and some people do not have easy access to real birds so they start the training before they introduce them. It's all about foundation skills. I'd love to see a video about training with real birds and R+! Let me know if you make one!
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
nice but not real retrieve work! no straight lines or real fetch work, going around the bank,
this can get a dog killed working the field! however, i like the interaction between pet dog and
handler. i think is great for the such. very nice!!!
rrsd69 2 months ago
@rrsd69 I invite you to make a video about a 'real retrieve'!
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
See my response to Muvuk100 in the message below yours. Good luck!
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
@supernaturalbc2009 she is half lab half dachsund, she is doing retrieves that i am gradually making longer but the problem is she doesnt wait until my call to retrieve. She sits next to me but when i throw it she immediately goes to running.
Dsexton12 2 months ago
@supernaturalbc2009 i have a weird mix of dog and i would like to see what abilities she has to go in the field i have her doin very simple retrieves but i could definentely use help. What should i start with?
Dsexton12 2 months ago
@Dsexton12 Start right at the beginning and progress step by step. Even if she is not a natural retriever, this approach will help her learn. And it will be a positive experience for her. I'd advise against throwing into it (i.e. using a real bird etc) as she could develop some bad habits or you risk turning on a genetic behaviour you didn't know was there. Once turned on, they are very difficult to turn off, if not impossible. Eg, if she learns to love tearing apart or chasing a bird.
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
Hi i have just re homed two english cocker spaniels which i want to try and train. For Alfie )the dog) I know if i throw the bumper he will want to go get it straight away. How do you stop that (i will try your part 1 stuff first but just wondered what you do if they just run for it) i guess you dont click?
mavuk100 2 months ago
@mavuk100 Break the behaviour into even smaller pieces. Teach the sit stay first and proof it with placing food, then objects then the bumper or ball. Then start gently throwing the each item type a short distance (one foot, then two feet, then three. If the dog fails, go back to the distance where he can succeed. When solid on distance, then increase the intensity of the throw and increase the value of the object. low value food, med value food high value food, toy, ball, bumper for example.
supernaturalbc2008 2 months ago
@supernaturalbc2008 , ok thanks will give that a go. I notice in your videos you do that. Couple more questions if i may please. If your trying to train something and the dog doesnt do it, you dont click and give treat? (in your videos most times the dogs seem to do what your trying to train, without any failures). Lastly i have two dogs, i guess they need training individually otherwise they will compete with each other ? Thanks Kevin
mavuk100 2 months ago
@mavuk100 If your dog doesn't do something you are trying to train you need to look at several things: is the environment too distracting, is the reward high enough to keep interest, is what you are asking too hard? etc. Make it as easy as possible to succeed in tiny steps and the dog learns much faster than 'lumping' behaviours. When the dog progresses easily through to a new behaviour, it is called "errorless learning". The dog should succeed at least 50% of the time (or more)
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
@supernaturalbc2009 when you increase the criteria. If he can't, you need to go back to where he is successful and make the next step smaller.
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
As to training 2 dogs. yes, train the separately first (behind a door or barrier), then when they have an understanding of the behaviour, have one lay on a bed and reward him for staying calm while you train the other. Start by alternating between the dogs for rewards at first, then fade the reward for the dog laying still until it's unpredictable. I also use this to help one dog learn new behaviour by observing the other. Good luck!
supernaturalbc2009 2 months ago
very good
mabt929929 10 months ago
Very well done!
ilovecanines 1 year ago
Thanks so much, this is exactly what I was looking for. The rescue lab is a natural at swimming and retrieving, but I want to refine his retrieve. I have been learned my training from Michael Ellis videos, I have considered his methods and style to be top notch, especially compared to countless hacks out there. But...your approach and clarity are awesome! I will make sure and investigate your other posts. Cheers!
cutbait64 1 year ago
Thanks for posting these great videos!
noe2rs 1 year ago
OK, will try that, thanks !
MsTillyboo 1 year ago
Comment removed
MsTillyboo 1 year ago
Comment removed
MsTillyboo 1 year ago
Hi, What do I do if the dog trys to tug the dummy from my hand when teaching the hold ?
MsTillyboo 1 year ago
@MsTillyboo Try to time your click for when the dog is holding the dummy, not tugging on it. Then when you click, the dog should release the dummy. With a few reps, the dog will learn that the hold is what you want, not the tug.
supernaturalbc2009 1 year ago
why do you have to do it iagain at the back yard?? The dog already knows the behaviour
nataliawasilewska97 1 year ago
This is compounded when you have a fearful dog who is having trouble focussing in the new environment. We assume they are 'stubborn' when they can't think because they are scared or distrated. Starting from the beginning at each new location sets the dog up for success and the dog will progress more quickly at each new location.
supernaturalbc2009 1 year ago
Dogs don't generalize well. That means even though they 'know' a behavior in one location, it doesn't translate into another. A 'sit' in the living room is not a 'sit' in the yard. Each time the dog relearns it in a new location, it will happen more quickly and you can skip steps. After relearning it in many new locations, the dog will eventually remember what the behavior is. Humans forget that other animals don't generalize well and this gets us into trouble.
supernaturalbc2009 1 year ago
Hi, I am new to clicker training and trying to get past our dummy training issues. He won't return the dummy to me in the field preferring to run about with it and toss it about and finally lying down and chewing it.
I have started from the basics but he tries to tug the dummy from my hand, how should I deal with this ?
I am so thankful to have found your videos !
MsTillyboo 1 year ago
nice :)
withthewolves 2 years ago
Excellent i love this. Have done what you said recalling dog off the bumper before it gets it..but have not thought of getting someone else to throw the bumper out..what a good idea.
Only prob with the idea that the tugging is more rewarding than retrieve is that my dogs are the opposite they really really love retrieving, much more than tugging on a toy!!!
MultiAnimalcrackers 2 years ago
Thanks. Whatever is more moivating for your dog. Some dogs are actually more motivated by the retrieve (but Jessie is not one of them) I actually had a comment in there qualifying "if tugging is more fun for your dog" but it got edited out at some point due to time.
supernaturalbc2009 2 years ago