You know we have been lied to over the years, not only by Governments but by religious leaders, who have preached so many lies that are not even in Scripture and lead many on the path to destruction. You might want to visit a site that is in my user name which is 2besaved dot com.There is a great audio there that will shock you and you will come away asking many questions. Thanks Jane
is it not hypocritical to teach santa to our children, while at the same time teaching them virtues as honesty and giving to others?
if you are comfortable lying to children then YOU are the hypocrite! you posted this video in order to expose what you believe is a lie. yet you have the audacity to defend one of the worlds biggest lies.
no one will force you to accept witnesses beliefs, but dont be a hypocrite yourself by promoting what you KNOW is false.
and FYI Dec. 25 is in the middle of summer for HALF the WORLD. this white christmas schtick is just another way to worship the fleshly lusts and commercialize a day thats meant to celebrate the arrival of the King of Kings
but if a group of people choses not to celebrate a pagan holiday they are cut down and marginalized because they don't believe in worshiping a fat elf and would instead teach their children the importance of worshiping God all year long. Ive heard every story to justify peoples lust for this holiday and i think that their god is their belly and thats why they love this silly americanized christmas culture...
Christmas is a holiday of Greed, Debt, Sorrow, and Vain Fleshly glorying. the passage of Col 2 talks about what we are free from and what Christ nailed to the cross. You took verse 16 out of context. no one should judge you in respect to keeping Jewish holidays under the law that was nailed to the Cross. no one should force you to keep Christmas either.
collosian 2:16 . it said let no man therfore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holliday or of the new moon or of the sabbath days......the most high said he hates your feast days..meaning the feast days man has made for himself...the holidays he was speaking on are the hlidays that he gave us...like Cahanakkah, passover, feast of the tabernacles, feast of unleavend bread, feast of trumpets, feast of first fruits,feast of atonement, ..where did he say christmas..jeremiah 10:1-8
@jacksappl1 2 things were taken out of context here. One, Jeremaiah and two Samuel. As for Deuteronomy that we went over in church today. One can not argue with that because Christmas came from pegan traditions.
I'd like to know what version of the bible you are quoting from..because the topic is not about the pagan holidays..the subject paul is discussing is the mosaic law..the fesitivals of the moasic law..the celebrations, eating restrictions, etc of the mosaic law..he is NOT saying that we should not judge pagan holidays as ok..or a matter of conscience. if a person wants to oberserve the fesitivals, sabbath, etc of the mosaic law..it is not a sin..but, it is not a requirement.
Trouble with these anti Christmas people they all look for the evil in life and so miss out on all the love received and happiness bestowed on many people .
therefore they are evil minded and not interested in showing love, and goodwill their idea is to spread hate and destroy anything that gives love and happiness
All I know is I celebrate the same ways my family before me did, it brings happiness and can have a magical effect on humans. I like it, I will continue to like it.
Most self-claiming christians in the US an Europe are materialistic and money worshippers. Therefore they invented absurd (human not biblical) doctrines and false belief systems in order to keep pagan holidays with a thin " christian" overlay
FACT; the HOLY DAYS were never abolished but by roman popes that changed God's holydays.Fact;Shepherds were not in the fields in dec. christmas is nothing but a lie to buy garbage evry year so the merchants can get rich it has nothing to do with religion or the Messiah.
And just because the majority of JW's think they have the Truth doesn't make it true. Read Silent Lambs and Captive of a Concept. You JW's claimed to be God's only people because you were serving "meat in due season" in 1919. Well, the meat's rotten. EVERY major teaching the WT had in 1919 has been denied, changed and lied about. So now your "proof" has evaporated and you get to be judged by your conduct today. The WT is a baby-raping cult that protects pedophiles. I've researched this 20 years.
I can prove they don't have the truth, they can't prove they do. They ruin families. Abuse victims commit suicide when their own parents shun them. The WT causes deaths with non Bible blood rules. I'm a published author, 60 years old, with a Psych degree. I've known thousands of JW's for 40 years. What credentials do you have besides being brain washed?? It does NOT go both ways. Two and two is either four or it's not. The WT changes their beliefs all the time. Read the Captives book. THINK!!!!
Sorry, but your degrees prove nothing, its also funny
how someone who CLAIMS to hold academic credentials
and an author can sit on youtube and jump to rash conclusions and call someone brainwashed all because of a disagreement. The suicides of those that are shunned is not proof either. If anything you sound like nothing more
than a former JW with a chip on his shoulder than
someone with any psychological degrees, especially
I just can't help to think of the 2 that's right 2 bible references to Birthdays. 1.They were NOT God's people celebrating them. Remember in Egypt? and then the Romans. And 2.There were deaths. In the 2nd one mentioned, John the baptist got beheaded. Would you have wanted to be at that Birthday party?
That it[Studies in the Scriptures, Vol VII] contains some mistakes is freely admitted. Even the Bible contains some. - The Watchtower, April 1, 1920, p. 103
As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible and there has never been a book written yet that is perfect that has been written by any human hand. - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928
It's not just the witnesses who dont celebrate christmas, many christian faiths remember the birth of christ but do not celebrate christmas and rightly so.
is new moon and sabbath are jew holladays, quite a streach ther . john 20:22 does not call jesus a rabbi or that he was involed in a pagon holladay . were's your honesty?
smalltimr; you don't talk like a jw.. so i think your lying. iv'e read all the posts and you nothing like a jw. i get the feeling mary know's a lot more about the subject of christmas and the jw's than you. it's no wonder you didn't comment on my questions??????????'s let me know if you want to talk about how jesus choose the WTS IN 1919. AND WHY DRUNKEN RUTHERFRAUD CANCELLED CHRISTMAS in 1928 because all the jw's were leaving the wt over his FALSE PROPHECY "THAT THE WORLD WAS TO END 1925
smalltimr; guess all santa claus brings you every year is a LUMP OF COAL. or maybe the WATCHTOWER MAKES YOU knock on stangers doors during Christ-Mass Peddling Craptower and Afake Magazines. I sure hope you want to talk about beliefs that only jehovah witness belive in ( christmas is no one of them). I will wipe the floor with you
smalltimr just tell me one prophecy the craptower got right? 1799, 1829, 1844 ,1872,73,1874 ,1876 1878, 1881, 1884, 1905-07 1910-12 1914 1915 1918, 1819 1920 1921 1925 1932 1941 1954 1975 the generation of 1914? all of these dates and more were printed as TRUTH THE WORD OF JEHOVAH for armageddon, the rapture, time of the end, great tribulation etc, the CPAPTOWER has a 100% record of being wrong every time. some channel of communition from god?????????????
I am an ExJW and I celebrated Xmas and Hannukah for the 1st time this year. I could care less about the origins of these, but I was overjoyed to spend time with my "evil" "worldly" relatives and spend the winter solstice with them rejoicing that the days will be geting longer soon. I don't see how this is "worst pagan rituals" as SmallTimR says. I think spending time with family os much better than mindless rituals such as passing bread and wine and not eating them every year.
So are you implying that, there is no wrong in carrying out Pagan rituals? I'm no bible expert, but I'm pretty confident God killed people for doing such things in the past, let alone using pagan rituals to celebrate his sons birth.
I certainly wouldn't hold anyone accountable for celebrating Christmas less the divine connection. But if your going to justify Christmas using the bible, then I'm pretty sure you've just fucked yourself out of a heavenly pass.
THX Mary, if the pagen origin of X-mas is wrong, should not all pagan rituals like the ones you mentioned be treated the same by jehovahs witnesses? Why are they so selective?
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who associates themselves with the pedophile protecting watchtower cult has lost their right to point a critical finger at anyone or anything. They have aligned themselves with the lowest of the low, and have no credibility whatsoever.
Jehovah's Witnesses, clean the shit off your own shoes before you point your fingers at others.
Calm down, you seem to be getting a bit worked up. It is natural to be excited at the arrival of a new baby. And there is nothing wrong with helping the new parents out with gifts. The bible may say the angels rejoiced but it does not say that they celebrated his birth every year. And there is councel to keep ourselves free from things that are unclean and that take honor away from God. That would include birthdays seeing how it has pagan roots.
When I was an active JW, I worked alongside a VERY devout Catholic lady. She and her mother went to each and every mass and church service over the Christmas period.
Interestingly she abhored the bunting and paraphenalia which has attached itself to the celebration over the year.. her devotions were the center of her celebration.
Curiously, a one time opponent in the office, actually met me mind to mind..
It's not necessarily the celebration folks.. it's the debauchery that can be...
A Christian would certainly not want to partake in any service of ritual that salutes "other" gods or challenges his/her Christian standards. Or have I missed the point?
Jesus also turned the water into the BEST OF wine at the wedding feast at Cana.. and left the sobriety up the individual.
Israel celebrated a whole range of joyful and solemn occasions.. to the praise of Jehovah.
How many celebrations do modern witnesses of Jehovah, have?
Luke 2:13 says no such thing. What is your source of info? It really sounds like you did haphazard pick and choose research. And if you truly understood what was being said at Colossians 2:16 you wouldnt have used it because it actually works against your point. Also a further examination of the scriptures reveals that Jesus neither asked anyone nor celibrated his birth.
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Luke ch.2 clearly shows that the angels rejoiced at the birth of Jesus. And please enlighten us as to the 'true meaning' of Col. 2:16 oh intelligent one. It means exactly what it says: Don't judge someone if they want to celebrate a religious holiday', Of course, that's not something the WTS preaches, so you claim that the bible doesn't know what it's talking about.
And so what if Jesus didn't 'ask' anyone to celebrate his birth. Did he say you could celebrate a wedding anniversary? No?
Well, weddings and the marriage arrangement were made by God when he paired Adam and Eve. Birthdays came from men and were origionally celibrated by men that did not listen to God.
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Are you seriously trying to claim that the giving of BIRTH was not 'made by God'? What have you been smoking?
The angels rejoiced when Jesus was born. Which part of that do you not get? Plus, there's absolutely no evidence that either the Isrealites nor the early Christians had "baby showers", yet JW's can do THAT today.
Tell me something: If birthdays are so "evil" in God's site, then why is there no law forbidding them mentioned anywhere in the bible?
Christmas... A time to carry out pagan rituals in Christ's name!
Lets just forget the part where the date is wrong and of horrific pagan rituals held on that date instead. While were at it, let's just ignore that every attribute of the celebration(tree, candles, songs, etc are all pagan(even satanic).
Let us join hands and focus on the fact that God will overlook all this, as he looks onto the good from those taking part in this time of love and happiness.
Because those damned JW's are such hypocrites, there's no way God would even notice such a minor discrepancy in our attempts to commemorate his son's birth.
Then afterwords the apostles did not engage in that pagan practice. Also note the two b-days mentioned involved non God fearing men and ended in murder.
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What dumb logic. By your logic, if murder happened on someone's birthday, that means you can't celebrate it. OK, what about the very first Memorial(Passover) where Jesus was murdered. Why can you celebrate that? Because Jesus said to? Exactly. Clearly Jesus did not feel that his execution barred anyone from celebrating the event, so why on earth does the WTS apply this bizarre logic to birthdays?
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Oh pu-lease. The WTS celebrated Xmas up until the late 1920s, even though they knew some of the customs were 'pagan'. Here's something you should ponder: Why can Jehovah's Witnesses wear wedding rings and go on honeymoons when both of these practices are from pagan origin?
Can you tell me exactly what aspect of JW's celebrated Christmas has on the origins of the holiday in question?
Unless the JW's your baseline for reasoning, I really don't see the sense in your argument whatsoever.
Like I said...
Christmas is composed of some of the most hideous pagan rituals known to man, regardless of what JW's or other religions are saying about them. And anyone trying to defend or atone for such a convoluted holiday needs to get his or her head examined.
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Because you're condemning the celebration itself and therefore everyone who celebrates it---something JW's are famous for doing, while conveniently ignoring the fact that the founder of the religion, Charles Russell also celebrated it and saw nothing wrong with it.
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There's something to love about JW-Phobics like yourself.
The bottom is, in cases of ignorance, there's nothing to be said about it. But where people have been informed or educated on the origins and implications of Christmas, there are simply no excuses to be made.
This withstanding regardless of what phobias you suffer from.
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There's nothing to be said about it? I beg to differ. I am educated on the origins of Xmas, as was Charles Russell. Why did the man who claimed that Jehovah was working exclusively through him, actively promote the celebration of Christmas if it was so bad?
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lol Can't get passed finger pointing eh?
Who cares what CT Russel thought, believed or did. Apparently it's quite popular to detract from the issues at hand by pointing fingers.
The point I made was simple and obvious.
Those crying hypocrisy are the biggest hypocrites of all. Even now, as the obvious is so easily pointed-out you yourself struggle to sidetrack the issue.
The JW's stopped celebrating Christmas..
What have you any the countless others who know better done?
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Who cares if the JW's stopped celebrating Xmas. The founder, who JWs believe was chosen by God Himself to 'revive 1st century Christianity', celebrated this 'pagan' holiday as he saw nothing wrong with it. Today, it's a disfellowshipping offense. Yet JW's believe that CT Russell is ruling in heaven with Jesus, so obviously Jesus doesn't think it's a DFing offense.
In other words, it's a double standard in the religion----a point you obviously can't handle thinking about.
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There can only be a double standard if those accused are making exceptions to there beliefs.
Unless you have some divine connections, I doubt you could ever determine whether Mr Russel is throwing Christmas parties with his heavenly associates.
Likewise, how can you accuse JW's when they themselves have chosen to refrain from the celebration in question?
Are you implying that all changes are irrelevant based on CT Russel's behavior?
Try as you may, your argument just doesn't stand to reason.
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The definition of a double-standard is when judicial processes are applied more strictly to some people than others. This is EXACTLY the situation in this case. The early JW's (Bible Students)could openly celebrate Xmas with no punishment whatsoever---something that is denied to Jehovah's Witnesses today.
THAT, my friend, is a double standard. Try as you might, your assertion that my 'argument doesn't stand to reason', is utterly absurd.
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My point is: If Xmas is soooo bad, then why was it okay for the Bible Students to celebrate it? Clearly Russell did not view it as 'evil', yet he has always be regarded by JWs as the man who was chosen by God to present "truth" to the world. So my point (yet again) is: If God's Chosen One celebrated this most 'evil' of holidays, then how exactly was he any different than anyone else at the time?
Please don't give me that 'light gets brighter' crap either. Just answer the question.
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"...How can anyone educated on matters ever justify the celebration of Christmas again?.."
Answer this: How did Charles Russell justify it?
Any religion can put their own particular spin on a doctrine and try and 'justify' it. Mormons do that with the consuming of caffeine or alcohol. The WT does it with the celebration of ANYTHING other than the Memorial or wedding anniversaries....this is nothing unusual.
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FYI...many things that are from 'pagan' origin are practiced by the JWs today: the wedding ring, the honeymoon, the wearing of a veil or even the carrying of flowers walking down the aisle were all done by the pagans.
Clearly, just because something might have a pagan background is no justification for disallowing it today. There are no beheadings on Xmas now, just family & friends enjoying time together.
Ya...I can see how that would piss God off (roll of eyes).
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I do. Here's one:
WT Dec 1 1904 p.364:"Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but..the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting...since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment, merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "Christmas day."
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ZION'S WT Dec. 15 1903, pg. 457:
Although we cannot agree that this is the proper day for celebrating the birth of our dear Redemeer..but since he did not intimate his desire that we should celebrate his birthday it is quite immaterial upon what day that event, of so great importance to all is celebrated.....The habit of giving little remembrances one to another at this time of year seems to us specially appropriate."
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THE WT Dec. 15, 1926, pg. 371: "Students of the Scriptures also know that the birth of Jesus did not take place in December; yet because of the general belief by most people, it seems to be an appropriate time to speak the truth concerning his birth and the purpose thereof. The Scriptural testimony... shows that the birth of Jesus occured approximately October 1st. The event is so important that it is always appropriate to call it to the minds of the people, regradless of the date."
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WT Dec 1 1904 p.364
ZION'S WT Dec. 15 1903, pg. 457:
THE WT Dec. 15, 1926, pg. 371
These references do nothing to commit the charge that CT Russel was aware of the origins of Christmas, as you stated... "educated on the origins of Christmas".
So again... I ask... where is your evidence to support the claim that CT Russel was a hypocrite?
And more to the point... How could the JW's be in contempt by eliminating pagan celebrations from their religious practices?
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How on earth do you suppose that he knew Jesus had not been born on Dec 25th? Obviously through research. Now unless you're trying to promote the ridiculous idea that he somehow discovered the erroneous date of His birth without also discovering that the Romans worshipped their sun-god on Dec. 25th, then it's just common sense that he knew about the origins of Xmas.
Clearly he did not view ancient practices as having anything to do with celebrating Christ's birth in our day.
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Just because the consequences of a ritual don't affect us directly, this has no impact on the implications associated with upholding of it.
Just as you would claim Christmas is harmless, those celebrating Hitlers reign could use the same model. But we all know that in principle, both celebrations are bound to a measure of wrongdoings. I can assure you... if you child or loved one were ever lost to human sacrifice, that you wouldn't be here making excuses to uphold such a vile tradition.
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Are you seriously comparing the birth of the Son of God with the reign of Adolph Hitler??!!
What kind of an idiot are you??!! One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. If this is the best defense you can come up with, then you are indeed, a lost soul.
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Perhaps you should take a look at your own literature before you spew your nonsensical ravings. Questions from Readers from the Feb 15, 2007 WT is a great example of how the WTS has a double standard on 'pagan rituals'. On one hand, they claim that just because something has pagan origins doesn't mean we can't participate in it today but then they go on to claim that there are "valid reasons" for not toasting without citing any of the reasons. Typical 'double-speak' from cult leaders.
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You have yet to answer my question as to why JW's can participate in SOME pagan rituals, such as the wearing of a wedding ring, having a bride wear a veil over her face, or going on a honeymoon.
These things ALL have their roots in paganism, so why are JWs allowed to use them today?
first off I have no clue what JW's wear on there fingers, at marriage time and /or honeymoon rituals, now do I care...
Unlike yourself, I am not at all concerned with the actions of others. The entire intent here was to show-up your typical hypocrite crying hypocrite scenario.
Its always fun to draw out your types into the open as you will so willfully hang yourself in the mangle of irrationality and lies that fuel your obsession.
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"first off I have no clue what JW's wear on there fingers, at marriage time and /or honeymoon rituals, now do I care..."
LIAR. You know full well they wear wedding rings just like everyone else. But because you have no defense for their participation in a 'pagan' ritual, you claim ignorance and feign disinterest.
Typical mentality amongst the Witnesses. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
I couldn't give a rats ass about people celebrating Christmas.
What does matter however, is where people like you think that you are somehow justified in discrediting others while you're none the better.
Sound familiar? If the JW's are hypocrites, then your 10x the hypocrite, and you have no authority whatsoever trying to direct others onto matters of right and wrong.
Sinking in yet? smart-ass.
I know your not that stupid, this is just the rubbing of the nose in your own feces.
What I do care about however, is people like yourself misleading others on the origins of Christmas. Huge difference.
The way I look at it, no one here deserves to share a fate with people like you and yours truly. You made your own bed with JW's, don't try and drag other innocent people into it with your pathetic biblical interpretations and lies.
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"Its always fun to draw out your types into the open as you will so willfully hang yourself in the mangle of irrationality and lies that fuel your obsession."
LMAO..Yet ANOTHER typical response from a blind JW. Your failure to explain why Witnesses are allowed to participate in some pagan rituals but not others, is about what I expected. Rather than admit that it IS a double standard, you pat yourself on the back thinking you won the argument.
There's nothing left here for you to prove or argue about other than that of your own personal issues with a religious group, no more no less.
I certainly have nothing to explain or cover up. Perhaps next time, you will think twice before posting lies and unfounded accusations to discredit others in the face of your own errors.
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Small
Why not just answer the allegations? I find it highly offensive that you accuse mary of posting lies. She may be misinformed, ignorant or even high on drugs, but calling her a liar is unfair.
Hey... if your not a JW, then you should be(lol). I sure as hell are not inclined to forgive this fool.
Read through the exchange and you will see where the discrepancies lie. The verdict is well warranted.
All it takes is a little humility and honesty.
But 01Mary02 insisted on playing the fool and that pisses me off. A person who's supposedly smart enough to quote literature(date and paragraph). But somehow to lame to acknowledge basic social principles.
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"...Read through the exchange and you will see where the discrepancies lie..."
I did a link to this 'discussion' to another site I'm on, and no one could believe your insane rants. You're not fooling anyone but yourself here SmalltimR.
"...But 01Mary02 insisted on playing the fool and that pisses me off...."
No, what pissed you off is that you had nothing of substance with which you could refute what I said.
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Giving your kids a gift on Dec 25th: no effect on origins of Christmas
Getting together with family and friends: no effect on origins of Christmas
Remembering how Jesus was born: no effect on origins of Christmas.
Do you get it? People today do not behead others or worship Ba'al on Christmas. Therefore, the origins of it does not matter one bit, except in Watchtower World.
But none of them addressed the question which was charged to you when all of this started.
Look it up...
All you've presented throughout the entire exchange was smoke and mirrors in your own attempts to deter from the obvious.
You're right about one thing though, there is nothing left to argue about - Christmas is a horrible holiday, and any person who has been educated on it's origins trying to promote it onto others is nothing short of disgusting.
You're right! I didn't, your argument had no impact whatsoever on the implications of trying to justify Christmas.
Though I will admit, you almost had me enthralled in your scheme when I found myself googling CT Russel. But then I realized it was pointless since neither He nor anyone(for that matter) could change the nature of the problem.
Then again, JW's don't go around telling people Christmas is okay either(oops).
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pap177, this is not unusual behaviour in those involved in a high control group like the Witnesses. You have it drilled into your brain from birth that you are right, and the rest of the world is wrong.
Even when the facts are presented, the Witnesses will absolutely refuse to admit that they might possibly be in error. To do that might make them question the religion and that is something that is not allowed.
What's sad is that SmalltimR really believes in what he's saying.
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"...There's nothing left here for you to prove or argue about other than that of your own personal issues with a religious group.."
For once I agree with you. There's nothing left for me to prove, because I showed clear cut evidence at the hypocrisy of your religion. You had absolutely no rebuttal other than to call me names, so I guess my work here is done.
My only question is: Can you use the time you posted on here on your Field Service Report? LOL!!!
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"..I certainly have nothing to explain or cover up.."
TRANSLATION: You CAN'T explain the discrepancies I raised which obviously infuriates you so you delude yourself by thinking you've won the argument.
"..Perhaps next time you will think twice before posting lies and unfounded accusations to discredit others..."
Uh, no I won't 'think twice' about exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the WTB&TS. It's not very hard really, since they are constantly speaking out both sides of their mouths.
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I have no idea who this 01mary02 woman is but saying you have no clue what JWs wear on their fingers or honeymoon suggests you have lost the argument. Very unreasonable!
Right, well considering my argument was never about JW's to begin with(see original statement).
01Mary02 did a fine job proving that X-JW's will stop at nothing to discredit their rivalry.
Similarly, 01Mary02 was screwed the moment he tried to justify celebrating Christmas on one hand, while criticizing his opponents(who didn't) on the other(sheesh)
And so the rest of the exchange is 01Mary02 trying to convince himself that one wrong plus another = a right.
Secondly, you make wild unsubstantiated claims regarding some guy who died in 1916.
Thirdly you try to justify pagan celebrations by pointing fingers at others, who you somehow claim to be worst than you as they refuse to celebrate....
I don't know if there is one word to sum-up your personality type. Whatever the case... it ain't pretty.
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Excuse me but what 'wild, unsubstantiated claims' did I make? It's a historical fact that Charles Russell knew Jesus' birthday was not Dec 25th, yet he actively promoted the celebration of it in his day.
My 'finger pointing' was to show the double standard in the Organization that once celebrated Xmas, but now view it as "satanic". You have not be able to prove otherwise.
I'm sure even someone with your limited intelligence can see you don't have a leg to stand on.
I can only assume that you are either ignorant of the facts behind the origins of Christmas, or... your worst than the accused you so willfully accused.
Either way, why don't you educated yourself on the real origins of Christmas(see: The Origin of Christmas and its Traditions parts 1-3 on YouTube) and then come back here to revise your claims.
Anyone who is aware of the origins of Christmas who in turns makes excuses to justify the celebration, needs his or her head examined.
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Perhaps YOU should educate yourself on the origins of many practices that JWs participate in, like baptism. It did not originate with Christianity but was an ancient Egyptian practice that the WT admits in the Apr 1/93 WT on p.4:
"It was employed in Babylonia & in ancient Egypt where the... waters of the Nile were thought to increase strength & bestow immortality. The Greeks also believed that baptism could bring regeneration or could procure immortality for the initiate."
You really need snap-out-of-it and recognize that these scandalous claims are purely limited to yours truly. Who cares what other people believe-in or carry out in part of their rituals? It is what it is...
Just don't go making-up shit and expect others not to notice what your doing in the process. It only makes you look that much more foolish than the ones you work so hard to discredit.
Now, the only hypocrite left is the one lying and making poor excuses to justify his or her own actions.
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I have been reading this with interest. Why is when a JW apologist is backed into a corner, with a question they can't answer they start name calling?
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You're right digderidodo....Unfortunately, this is the way Witnesses are trained. They "know" they're right and they simply cannot handle it when they're shown to be wrong.
Therefore, when backed into a corner, they lash back, ignore questions, claim they've answered them, and feign ignorance.
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Sooo, is that the best defense you can come up with? How exactly am I 'eating shit' and 'sleeping like a deprived dog'? All I did was respond to your original tirade about the 'evils of Xmas' and pointed out that the founder of your religion didn't see anything wrong with celebrating it.
Your increasingly irrational posts just shows the depth of your delusions while trying to defend a harmless celebration.
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SmalltimR are you a witness? Your language is appauling and simply degrades your arguements, i think it shows you lost this one maybe you should stop now.
You have got to be, one of the stupidest people I've ever encountered on here. You bitch and complain about how evil the origins of Xmas are, as though the happenings of thousands of years ago has ANYTHING to do with celebrating Christmas today.
Christmas IS and CAN be justified you idiot. People today celebrate it as a joyous occasion and there are no beheadings, etc. Only the truly pathetic and whining individual like yourself would bash it.
You didn't watch the video's did you?(Typical brain wash)...
The true hypocrites always show their colors in the end. It's just to-bad none of you are honest enough to accept the responsibilities of your actions as you go along polluting peoples with your anti-JW propaganda.
Hypocrites? If only you were half as honest as a JW, you'd have a chance at being worthy of the place you occupy on this planet.
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I'm really glad you posted that. It is an EXCELLENT example of the mentality & mind control that Jehovah's Witnesses labour under and you put it out there for everyone to see.
If anyone was left to "look like a fool" in this debate, it was you, simply because you could not answer any of the questions put to you, and apparently do not even know your own religions' history very well. I suggest you read something other than what's churched out at Patterson. Better luck next time sweetheart.
X-JW Ultimate insult, call other person a JW(lol) - I mean seriously, this says it all right here doesn't it!
Your behavior is a stark reminder of how terrible life could be. Thank-God I am not in your shoes.
Still...Mental illness, brainwashing or fanaticism aside. None of that justifies your behavior. You people may not be sound of mind, but you are not immune to the criticism you bring onto yourselves with this type of behavior.
I don't care what religion or abuse you've been through.
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Of course you're a Witness. Your furious response on here when I pointed out the double standard the JWs have, indicates that. No one other than an active JW would respond in the bizarre fashion you have. You claim disinterest and ignorance about their practices but you sure as hell seem to know alot about them.
This is ANOTHER typical tactic of JWs: pretending that they're not Witnesses as though an 'outsiders' defense of them gives them greater credibility.
Well your just chalked full of stupidity aren't you. Just as you assumed you know the origins of Christmas(wrong). Just as you assumed CT Russel was a hypocrite(wrong). You assume only a JW's can show you up.
You people are truly hopeless. Hung out with nothing left but your sorry ass to sit on.
Well...
At least you have Christmas and those damned JW's to point at.
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How exactly was I wrong about the origins of Xmas? I never said Russell was a hypocrite---I said the WTS are hypocrites because they have a double standard in allowing SOME pagan practices, but disallow others.
Indeed, I think C.R. Russell was alot more open minded than the current group of goons who run the show.
Try looking beyond your own nose to see the big picture dickhead.
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What in god's name are you babbling about? No one is denying that there were many aspects of Xmas that had its origin with pagans. That's not the issue. The issue is: Does the fact that pagans did something thousands of years ago have any bearing on the celebration of Xmas today? The answer is: NO. People today do not practice 'rituals', they buy each other gifts, sing Xmas Carols, honor Jesus & spend time with family & friends. Get your head out of your ass and THINK before you speak.
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Look dipshit, your pathetic argument was that if you celebrate Xmas today, you're 'evil' because there are 'pagan' conotations to it. You have not be able to deny that many of our customs today are steeped in paganism, but because you're too stupid to understand logic and reasoning, you don't see that that's a double standard.
Maybe you should go see your doctor about getting your meds switched...clearly the stuff you're taking isn't doing much good.
Ever notice that the only people who care what JW's do and practice are X-JW'S!
My take on all this was never about the JW's to begin with(duh)!
It was all about you and the others who post here, thinking that no one would ever notice the overwhelming stupidity you possess to ever accept your claims on hypocrisy when you yourselves are a tenfold the hypocrites.
Right, because I'm the one spreading the good word on Christmas.
I'll give you one thing. You were right to kick and scream at the sight of hypocrisy.
It is indeed a horrible attribute to possess, And since you stand on top of the heap, you must truly feel bad about how you foolishly tried to justify celebrating it as you half-haphazardly blamed others of wrong-doing.
I don't know much about JW's. But I have am certain that you are well deserving of criticism you received.
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"...I don't know much about JW's...."
Actually, what you don't know would fill an encyclopedia. Plus, you're still lying your ass off, pretending that you're not a Witness. Are you still counting this as time on your field service report duffus?
I was going to deny this to the end but... there is just no fooling you is there?
Next Sunday when I go to pray, I will tell all my JW brotherin' about you and how you totally exposed the organization leaders for the pagan pushers they truly were.
And to show my sincerity, I'm going to request that the my minister read some of your inspiring bible interpretations to the congregation too.
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More like: you're a pathetic snivelling jerk who apparently has nothing better to do with his time, than to shake his fist at all those heathen bastards who dare to celebrate Christmas.
I have no issues whatsoever with what people do or don't celebrate(unlike some).
What does irritate me however, is when people, walk around "claiming" to know origins of Christmas while trying to justify it on a religious basis.
Having said that, there is always the possibility that those persons, didn't have the proper information to begin with since it's common for people to believe that the incorrect date of Christ is about it.
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"...What does irritate me is when people, walk around "claiming" to know origins of Christmas while trying to justify it on a religious basis..."
Oh good lord, give your head a shake. You've been bitching and whining about people celebrating Xmas because of it's pagan roots from the start. I've repeatedly asked you why it's okay that many of our customs today have it's roots in paganism & you don't bat an eye, but flip right out over Christmas.
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I think the video pretty well explains it. The angels rejoiced when Christ was born, there's nothing in the scriptures condemning the celebration of His birth and in fact says that we should not be judging one another with regards to celebrating a holiday.
Again I ask the question you refuse to answer: Why is it ok that many of our customs today have their roots in paganism that we all use including you, yet you deride Xmas for it's 'satantic' roots.
well I certainly can't find fault in recognizing Christs birth. However, you would think that people would put enough emphasis on this momentous occasion to get the date right? I mean... what really matters here? The upholding pagan rituals or the commemoration of Christs arrival into the world? Looks to me like people are far more concerned with upholding their own agenda's by adding Jesus as a component rather than the center in the rather poor choice of rituals that make-up Christmas.
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I think it would be great if we actually knew the exact date, but we don't. The birth of Christ was actually implemented on December 25th, not because anyone wanted to make it 'pagan', but because the Christians at that time were competing with the pagans for dominance and since the Romans were celebrating the birth of the sun-god on Dec 25th, the Christians countered by saying 'hey--then that's the day WE'RE going to celebrate the birth of the Son of God.
Look at it this way: Would you ever consider drawing pentagons in your window and reciting demon chants as part of your commemoration to Christs birth?(rhetorical) but if you contemplate the implications of Christmas in its current form, then you will quickly see the senselessness behind it. There is no way the God of the holy bible(if you believe in one), would ever accept people paying tribute to his son through pagan rituals. I don't care what anyone says... it just isn't going to happen.
@Why is it ok that many of our customs today have their roots in paganism that we all use including you, yet you deride Xmas for it's 'satantic' roots.
Well that depends on your angle after all. Are you "claiming" to be an honest God fearing individual who lives his or her life to uphold God's will? If so, then once you have been educated on such matters, there are no excuses. You are either in or out(so to speak).
This would apply of course to all walks of life(JW's included).
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Made a video, just for you. Hope you like it. It's called, "Colossians 2:16 - The Truth". Take a look if you dare.
XmassIsALie 4 months ago
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You know we have been lied to over the years, not only by Governments but by religious leaders, who have preached so many lies that are not even in Scripture and lead many on the path to destruction. You might want to visit a site that is in my user name which is 2besaved dot com.There is a great audio there that will shock you and you will come away asking many questions. Thanks Jane
2besavedcom 9 months ago
@ tiredofjwhypocrites
is it not hypocritical to teach santa to our children, while at the same time teaching them virtues as honesty and giving to others?
if you are comfortable lying to children then YOU are the hypocrite! you posted this video in order to expose what you believe is a lie. yet you have the audacity to defend one of the worlds biggest lies.
no one will force you to accept witnesses beliefs, but dont be a hypocrite yourself by promoting what you KNOW is false.
mendalz 10 months ago
and FYI Dec. 25 is in the middle of summer for HALF the WORLD. this white christmas schtick is just another way to worship the fleshly lusts and commercialize a day thats meant to celebrate the arrival of the King of Kings
limchulsu 10 months ago
but if a group of people choses not to celebrate a pagan holiday they are cut down and marginalized because they don't believe in worshiping a fat elf and would instead teach their children the importance of worshiping God all year long. Ive heard every story to justify peoples lust for this holiday and i think that their god is their belly and thats why they love this silly americanized christmas culture...
limchulsu 10 months ago
Christmas is a holiday of Greed, Debt, Sorrow, and Vain Fleshly glorying. the passage of Col 2 talks about what we are free from and what Christ nailed to the cross. You took verse 16 out of context. no one should judge you in respect to keeping Jewish holidays under the law that was nailed to the Cross. no one should force you to keep Christmas either.
limchulsu 10 months ago
collosian 2:16 . it said let no man therfore judge you in meat or in drink or in respect of an holliday or of the new moon or of the sabbath days......the most high said he hates your feast days..meaning the feast days man has made for himself...the holidays he was speaking on are the hlidays that he gave us...like Cahanakkah, passover, feast of the tabernacles, feast of unleavend bread, feast of trumpets, feast of first fruits,feast of atonement, ..where did he say christmas..jeremiah 10:1-8
Elijah31791 1 year ago 2
See Deuteronomy 12:30-31 and Jeremaiah 10:2-4. Also see what happen to Saul when he did not obay, 1 Samuel 15:22-23
jacksappl1 1 year ago
@jacksappl1 2 things were taken out of context here. One, Jeremaiah and two Samuel. As for Deuteronomy that we went over in church today. One can not argue with that because Christmas came from pegan traditions.
Preludekemo 1 year ago
I'd like to know what version of the bible you are quoting from..because the topic is not about the pagan holidays..the subject paul is discussing is the mosaic law..the fesitivals of the moasic law..the celebrations, eating restrictions, etc of the mosaic law..he is NOT saying that we should not judge pagan holidays as ok..or a matter of conscience. if a person wants to oberserve the fesitivals, sabbath, etc of the mosaic law..it is not a sin..but, it is not a requirement.
brofun 1 year ago
Trouble with these anti Christmas people they all look for the evil in life and so miss out on all the love received and happiness bestowed on many people .
therefore they are evil minded and not interested in showing love, and goodwill their idea is to spread hate and destroy anything that gives love and happiness
they are totally blind,
poeticsylvie 2 years ago
@poeticsylvie - Funny, personal experience tells me otherwise. well, believe what you like.
HardbeatAcolyte 1 year ago
All I know is I celebrate the same ways my family before me did, it brings happiness and can have a magical effect on humans. I like it, I will continue to like it.
YankeeTom63 2 years ago
exposed? ...very weak scriptural arguments...sounds more like justification.
I think you need to watch the history channel about christmas...regardless if the JW's are a false religious system.
58maple 2 years ago
Great video!
dhamamy 2 years ago
Christmas is a money generating, blaspheming LIE. Wake up.
(Doesnt mean you cant have family around and stuff) just dont let those satanic christmas trees into ure house and dont drink too much and stuff.
callin2427 2 years ago
Couldn't agree more, callin2427.
Most self-claiming christians in the US an Europe are materialistic and money worshippers. Therefore they invented absurd (human not biblical) doctrines and false belief systems in order to keep pagan holidays with a thin " christian" overlay
zaggy3110 2 years ago
I want to be a talking reindeer.
AlexanderRaccoon 2 years ago
FACT; the HOLY DAYS were never abolished but by roman popes that changed God's holydays.Fact;Shepherds were not in the fields in dec. christmas is nothing but a lie to buy garbage evry year so the merchants can get rich it has nothing to do with religion or the Messiah.
onecare01 2 years ago 2
O ANNNND THE 25th OF DECEMBER WAS THE ROMAN HOLIDAY TO CELEBRATE AND GIVE GIFTS TO THE "SUN"( yes the huge yellow star in the sky)
mastrlx 2 years ago
ROFL, how can someone make a video about "exposing"
JWs false teachings, but then take Luke 2:13 and spin it
into angels celebrating Christmas for merely praising the
birth of Christ. Sorry, but just because the majority believe
Christmas to be christian doesn't intrinsically make it true.
Samc023 2 years ago 2
And just because the majority of JW's think they have the Truth doesn't make it true. Read Silent Lambs and Captive of a Concept. You JW's claimed to be God's only people because you were serving "meat in due season" in 1919. Well, the meat's rotten. EVERY major teaching the WT had in 1919 has been denied, changed and lied about. So now your "proof" has evaporated and you get to be judged by your conduct today. The WT is a baby-raping cult that protects pedophiles. I've researched this 20 years.
tking777 2 years ago
What's it to you whether or not they believe they have
the truth? Just because you don't believe they have the
truth doesn't make you right either, you see it goes both
ways. Every major teaching? and what do you classify
as MAJOR teachings?
Samc023 2 years ago
I can prove they don't have the truth, they can't prove they do. They ruin families. Abuse victims commit suicide when their own parents shun them. The WT causes deaths with non Bible blood rules. I'm a published author, 60 years old, with a Psych degree. I've known thousands of JW's for 40 years. What credentials do you have besides being brain washed?? It does NOT go both ways. Two and two is either four or it's not. The WT changes their beliefs all the time. Read the Captives book. THINK!!!!
tking777 2 years ago
Sorry, but your degrees prove nothing, its also funny
how someone who CLAIMS to hold academic credentials
and an author can sit on youtube and jump to rash conclusions and call someone brainwashed all because of a disagreement. The suicides of those that are shunned is not proof either. If anything you sound like nothing more
than a former JW with a chip on his shoulder than
someone with any psychological degrees, especially
coming off so condescending.
Samc023 2 years ago
I just can't help to think of the 2 that's right 2 bible references to Birthdays. 1.They were NOT God's people celebrating them. Remember in Egypt? and then the Romans. And 2.There were deaths. In the 2nd one mentioned, John the baptist got beheaded. Would you have wanted to be at that Birthday party?
goin240 2 years ago
That it[Studies in the Scriptures, Vol VII] contains some mistakes is freely admitted. Even the Bible contains some. - The Watchtower, April 1, 1920, p. 103
As every one knows, there are mistakes in the Bible and there has never been a book written yet that is perfect that has been written by any human hand. - The Watchtower, April 15, 1928
WtGoverningBody 2 years ago
This is'nt the best list of evidence compiled, I wouldnt take this on board if I wanted to live after armageddon
hewhocauses 3 years ago
Santa Claus is a dutch invention
hewhocauses 3 years ago
It's not just the witnesses who dont celebrate christmas, many christian faiths remember the birth of christ but do not celebrate christmas and rightly so.
hewhocauses 3 years ago
The Jewish calendar had 13 months, and not one of them was called "december" so how do you work the first hannukah date out?
hewhocauses 3 years ago
is new moon and sabbath are jew holladays, quite a streach ther . john 20:22 does not call jesus a rabbi or that he was involed in a pagon holladay . were's your honesty?
jayandersons 3 years ago
Testing
01Mary02 3 years ago
smalltimr; you don't talk like a jw.. so i think your lying. iv'e read all the posts and you nothing like a jw. i get the feeling mary know's a lot more about the subject of christmas and the jw's than you. it's no wonder you didn't comment on my questions??????????'s let me know if you want to talk about how jesus choose the WTS IN 1919. AND WHY DRUNKEN RUTHERFRAUD CANCELLED CHRISTMAS in 1928 because all the jw's were leaving the wt over his FALSE PROPHECY "THAT THE WORLD WAS TO END 1925
johnnycip 3 years ago
I never said I was a JW, other than to aggravate Mary(obviously). Other than that, I am in no way a JW(never was either).
Poor X-JW bastards, they are convinced that the only way anyone could ever show them up, is, if those persons are JW's themselves.
It is all very reminiscent of sociopaths personalities...
LOOK! THERE, IN THE WINDOW...
psyche! - hahahah
SmalltimR 3 years ago
smalltimr; guess all santa claus brings you every year is a LUMP OF COAL. or maybe the WATCHTOWER MAKES YOU knock on stangers doors during Christ-Mass Peddling Craptower and Afake Magazines. I sure hope you want to talk about beliefs that only jehovah witness belive in ( christmas is no one of them). I will wipe the floor with you
johnnycip 3 years ago
smalltimr just tell me one prophecy the craptower got right? 1799, 1829, 1844 ,1872,73,1874 ,1876 1878, 1881, 1884, 1905-07 1910-12 1914 1915 1918, 1819 1920 1921 1925 1932 1941 1954 1975 the generation of 1914? all of these dates and more were printed as TRUTH THE WORD OF JEHOVAH for armageddon, the rapture, time of the end, great tribulation etc, the CPAPTOWER has a 100% record of being wrong every time. some channel of communition from god?????????????
johnnycip 3 years ago
I am an ExJW and I celebrated Xmas and Hannukah for the 1st time this year. I could care less about the origins of these, but I was overjoyed to spend time with my "evil" "worldly" relatives and spend the winter solstice with them rejoicing that the days will be geting longer soon. I don't see how this is "worst pagan rituals" as SmallTimR says. I think spending time with family os much better than mindless rituals such as passing bread and wine and not eating them every year.
ExGileadMissionary 3 years ago
So are you implying that, there is no wrong in carrying out Pagan rituals? I'm no bible expert, but I'm pretty confident God killed people for doing such things in the past, let alone using pagan rituals to celebrate his sons birth.
I certainly wouldn't hold anyone accountable for celebrating Christmas less the divine connection. But if your going to justify Christmas using the bible, then I'm pretty sure you've just fucked yourself out of a heavenly pass.
Pretty stupid argument really.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
THX Mary, if the pagen origin of X-mas is wrong, should not all pagan rituals like the ones you mentioned be treated the same by jehovahs witnesses? Why are they so selective?
goodfly2008 3 years ago 3
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who associates themselves with the pedophile protecting watchtower cult has lost their right to point a critical finger at anyone or anything. They have aligned themselves with the lowest of the low, and have no credibility whatsoever.
Jehovah's Witnesses, clean the shit off your own shoes before you point your fingers at others.
wfstecko 3 years ago
Calm down, you seem to be getting a bit worked up. It is natural to be excited at the arrival of a new baby. And there is nothing wrong with helping the new parents out with gifts. The bible may say the angels rejoiced but it does not say that they celebrated his birth every year. And there is councel to keep ourselves free from things that are unclean and that take honor away from God. That would include birthdays seeing how it has pagan roots.
Fastangboi 3 years ago
When I was an active JW, I worked alongside a VERY devout Catholic lady. She and her mother went to each and every mass and church service over the Christmas period.
Interestingly she abhored the bunting and paraphenalia which has attached itself to the celebration over the year.. her devotions were the center of her celebration.
Curiously, a one time opponent in the office, actually met me mind to mind..
It's not necessarily the celebration folks.. it's the debauchery that can be...
beroeanman 3 years ago
.. associated with it!
A Christian would certainly not want to partake in any service of ritual that salutes "other" gods or challenges his/her Christian standards. Or have I missed the point?
Jesus also turned the water into the BEST OF wine at the wedding feast at Cana.. and left the sobriety up the individual.
Israel celebrated a whole range of joyful and solemn occasions.. to the praise of Jehovah.
How many celebrations do modern witnesses of Jehovah, have?
beroeanman 3 years ago 4
Luke 2:13 says no such thing. What is your source of info? It really sounds like you did haphazard pick and choose research. And if you truly understood what was being said at Colossians 2:16 you wouldnt have used it because it actually works against your point. Also a further examination of the scriptures reveals that Jesus neither asked anyone nor celibrated his birth.
Fastangboi 3 years ago 6
Sorry to disagree with you, Fastangboi. You are free to see things your way, just as I am.
Agape to you brother.
TiredOfjwHypocrites 3 years ago
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Luke ch.2 clearly shows that the angels rejoiced at the birth of Jesus. And please enlighten us as to the 'true meaning' of Col. 2:16 oh intelligent one. It means exactly what it says: Don't judge someone if they want to celebrate a religious holiday', Of course, that's not something the WTS preaches, so you claim that the bible doesn't know what it's talking about.
And so what if Jesus didn't 'ask' anyone to celebrate his birth. Did he say you could celebrate a wedding anniversary? No?
01Mary02 3 years ago
Well, weddings and the marriage arrangement were made by God when he paired Adam and Eve. Birthdays came from men and were origionally celibrated by men that did not listen to God.
Fastangboi 3 years ago 9
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Are you seriously trying to claim that the giving of BIRTH was not 'made by God'? What have you been smoking?
The angels rejoiced when Jesus was born. Which part of that do you not get? Plus, there's absolutely no evidence that either the Isrealites nor the early Christians had "baby showers", yet JW's can do THAT today.
Tell me something: If birthdays are so "evil" in God's site, then why is there no law forbidding them mentioned anywhere in the bible?
Chew on THAT for a while.
01Mary02 3 years ago
@Chew on THAT for a while.
Christmas... A time to carry out pagan rituals in Christ's name!
Lets just forget the part where the date is wrong and of horrific pagan rituals held on that date instead. While were at it, let's just ignore that every attribute of the celebration(tree, candles, songs, etc are all pagan(even satanic).
Let us join hands and focus on the fact that God will overlook all this, as he looks onto the good from those taking part in this time of love and happiness.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 6
But wait!
None of that matters because now!
Because those damned JW's are such hypocrites, there's no way God would even notice such a minor discrepancy in our attempts to commemorate his son's birth.
Excuse me, while go laugh my ass off now.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 7
Then afterwords the apostles did not engage in that pagan practice. Also note the two b-days mentioned involved non God fearing men and ended in murder.
Fastangboi 3 years ago
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What dumb logic. By your logic, if murder happened on someone's birthday, that means you can't celebrate it. OK, what about the very first Memorial(Passover) where Jesus was murdered. Why can you celebrate that? Because Jesus said to? Exactly. Clearly Jesus did not feel that his execution barred anyone from celebrating the event, so why on earth does the WTS apply this bizarre logic to birthdays?
01Mary02 3 years ago
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favorite and share!
sldeyo 3 years ago
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Good information!! Merry Christmas!
aprilneo 3 years ago
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Are you seriously trying to defend a holiday such a Christmas with a JW slant?
The entire celebration is bound from what we could call some of the worst pagan rituals ever known to man.
Pathetic.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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Oh pu-lease. The WTS celebrated Xmas up until the late 1920s, even though they knew some of the customs were 'pagan'. Here's something you should ponder: Why can Jehovah's Witnesses wear wedding rings and go on honeymoons when both of these practices are from pagan origin?
01Mary02 3 years ago
Can you tell me exactly what aspect of JW's celebrated Christmas has on the origins of the holiday in question?
Unless the JW's your baseline for reasoning, I really don't see the sense in your argument whatsoever.
Like I said...
Christmas is composed of some of the most hideous pagan rituals known to man, regardless of what JW's or other religions are saying about them. And anyone trying to defend or atone for such a convoluted holiday needs to get his or her head examined.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 3
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Because you're condemning the celebration itself and therefore everyone who celebrates it---something JW's are famous for doing, while conveniently ignoring the fact that the founder of the religion, Charles Russell also celebrated it and saw nothing wrong with it.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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There's something to love about JW-Phobics like yourself.
The bottom is, in cases of ignorance, there's nothing to be said about it. But where people have been informed or educated on the origins and implications of Christmas, there are simply no excuses to be made.
This withstanding regardless of what phobias you suffer from.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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There's nothing to be said about it? I beg to differ. I am educated on the origins of Xmas, as was Charles Russell. Why did the man who claimed that Jehovah was working exclusively through him, actively promote the celebration of Christmas if it was so bad?
01Mary02 3 years ago
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lol Can't get passed finger pointing eh?
Who cares what CT Russel thought, believed or did. Apparently it's quite popular to detract from the issues at hand by pointing fingers.
The point I made was simple and obvious.
Those crying hypocrisy are the biggest hypocrites of all. Even now, as the obvious is so easily pointed-out you yourself struggle to sidetrack the issue.
The JW's stopped celebrating Christmas..
What have you any the countless others who know better done?
Pretty obvious...
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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Who cares if the JW's stopped celebrating Xmas. The founder, who JWs believe was chosen by God Himself to 'revive 1st century Christianity', celebrated this 'pagan' holiday as he saw nothing wrong with it. Today, it's a disfellowshipping offense. Yet JW's believe that CT Russell is ruling in heaven with Jesus, so obviously Jesus doesn't think it's a DFing offense.
In other words, it's a double standard in the religion----a point you obviously can't handle thinking about.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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There can only be a double standard if those accused are making exceptions to there beliefs.
Unless you have some divine connections, I doubt you could ever determine whether Mr Russel is throwing Christmas parties with his heavenly associates.
Likewise, how can you accuse JW's when they themselves have chosen to refrain from the celebration in question?
Are you implying that all changes are irrelevant based on CT Russel's behavior?
Try as you may, your argument just doesn't stand to reason.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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The definition of a double-standard is when judicial processes are applied more strictly to some people than others. This is EXACTLY the situation in this case. The early JW's (Bible Students)could openly celebrate Xmas with no punishment whatsoever---something that is denied to Jehovah's Witnesses today.
THAT, my friend, is a double standard. Try as you might, your assertion that my 'argument doesn't stand to reason', is utterly absurd.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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I have yet to see anyone in this thread address the points raised in the video.
All we have(thus far) are rants over conflicts with JW's(no surprises there).
As I said earlier, finger pointing are nothing but distractions from the obvious. Yet this is all that has come up in the(so called) comments.
Cases where people simply cannot accept the facts regardless of the evidence brought before them.
CT Russel has no affect on the implications of Christmas.
I know... I know JW's are hypocrites.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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@The early JW's (Bible Students)could openly celebrate Xmas with no punishment whatsoever...
So what are you complaining about exactly...
That religions should never be allowed to adjust their practices as it would be unfair for others?...
So much for progressive developments.
Since most of humanity would end-up guilty of the dreaded double standards.
So again... I ask. How can anyone educated on matters ever justify the celebration of Christmas again?
Oh right!... JW's are hypocrites...
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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My point is: If Xmas is soooo bad, then why was it okay for the Bible Students to celebrate it? Clearly Russell did not view it as 'evil', yet he has always be regarded by JWs as the man who was chosen by God to present "truth" to the world. So my point (yet again) is: If God's Chosen One celebrated this most 'evil' of holidays, then how exactly was he any different than anyone else at the time?
Please don't give me that 'light gets brighter' crap either. Just answer the question.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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"...How can anyone educated on matters ever justify the celebration of Christmas again?.."
Answer this: How did Charles Russell justify it?
Any religion can put their own particular spin on a doctrine and try and 'justify' it. Mormons do that with the consuming of caffeine or alcohol. The WT does it with the celebration of ANYTHING other than the Memorial or wedding anniversaries....this is nothing unusual.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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FYI...many things that are from 'pagan' origin are practiced by the JWs today: the wedding ring, the honeymoon, the wearing of a veil or even the carrying of flowers walking down the aisle were all done by the pagans.
Clearly, just because something might have a pagan background is no justification for disallowing it today. There are no beheadings on Xmas now, just family & friends enjoying time together.
Ya...I can see how that would piss God off (roll of eyes).
01Mary02 3 years ago
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@Answer this: How did Charles Russell justify it?
In order for this to stick.
You must have evidence to show that CT Russel know of the origins of Christmas and more to the point... celebrated despite this knowledge.
Do you have such evidence?
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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I do. Here's one:
WT Dec 1 1904 p.364:"Even though Christmas is not the real anniversary of our Lord's birth, but..the annunciation day or the date of his human begetting...since the celebration of our Lord's birth is not a matter of divine appointment, merely a tribute of respect to him, it is not necessary for us to quibble particularly about the date. We may as well join with the civilized world in celebrating the grand event on the day which the majority celebrate - "Christmas day."
01Mary02 3 years ago
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ZION'S WT Dec. 15 1903, pg. 457:
Although we cannot agree that this is the proper day for celebrating the birth of our dear Redemeer..but since he did not intimate his desire that we should celebrate his birthday it is quite immaterial upon what day that event, of so great importance to all is celebrated.....The habit of giving little remembrances one to another at this time of year seems to us specially appropriate."
01Mary02 3 years ago
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THE WT Dec. 15, 1926, pg. 371: "Students of the Scriptures also know that the birth of Jesus did not take place in December; yet because of the general belief by most people, it seems to be an appropriate time to speak the truth concerning his birth and the purpose thereof. The Scriptural testimony... shows that the birth of Jesus occured approximately October 1st. The event is so important that it is always appropriate to call it to the minds of the people, regradless of the date."
01Mary02 3 years ago
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WT Dec 1 1904 p.364
ZION'S WT Dec. 15 1903, pg. 457:
THE WT Dec. 15, 1926, pg. 371
These references do nothing to commit the charge that CT Russel was aware of the origins of Christmas, as you stated... "educated on the origins of Christmas".
So again... I ask... where is your evidence to support the claim that CT Russel was a hypocrite?
And more to the point... How could the JW's be in contempt by eliminating pagan celebrations from their religious practices?
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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How on earth do you suppose that he knew Jesus had not been born on Dec 25th? Obviously through research. Now unless you're trying to promote the ridiculous idea that he somehow discovered the erroneous date of His birth without also discovering that the Romans worshipped their sun-god on Dec. 25th, then it's just common sense that he knew about the origins of Xmas.
Clearly he did not view ancient practices as having anything to do with celebrating Christ's birth in our day.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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Just because the consequences of a ritual don't affect us directly, this has no impact on the implications associated with upholding of it.
Just as you would claim Christmas is harmless, those celebrating Hitlers reign could use the same model. But we all know that in principle, both celebrations are bound to a measure of wrongdoings. I can assure you... if you child or loved one were ever lost to human sacrifice, that you wouldn't be here making excuses to uphold such a vile tradition.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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Are you seriously comparing the birth of the Son of God with the reign of Adolph Hitler??!!
What kind of an idiot are you??!! One has absolutely NOTHING to do with the other. If this is the best defense you can come up with, then you are indeed, a lost soul.
How utterly pathetic.
01Mary02 3 years ago
Oh pu-lease...(lol)
If celebrating the birth of God's son is carried out on a buffet of pagan rituals, then you have other issues to lament about.
It's a good thing you have those JW hypocrites to detract from the reality of things, otherwise, you'd be digging your path to hell.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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Perhaps you should take a look at your own literature before you spew your nonsensical ravings. Questions from Readers from the Feb 15, 2007 WT is a great example of how the WTS has a double standard on 'pagan rituals'. On one hand, they claim that just because something has pagan origins doesn't mean we can't participate in it today but then they go on to claim that there are "valid reasons" for not toasting without citing any of the reasons. Typical 'double-speak' from cult leaders.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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You have yet to answer my question as to why JW's can participate in SOME pagan rituals, such as the wearing of a wedding ring, having a bride wear a veil over her face, or going on a honeymoon.
These things ALL have their roots in paganism, so why are JWs allowed to use them today?
01Mary02 3 years ago
first off I have no clue what JW's wear on there fingers, at marriage time and /or honeymoon rituals, now do I care...
Unlike yourself, I am not at all concerned with the actions of others. The entire intent here was to show-up your typical hypocrite crying hypocrite scenario.
Its always fun to draw out your types into the open as you will so willfully hang yourself in the mangle of irrationality and lies that fuel your obsession.
Still... its always entertaining to watch. :)
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
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"first off I have no clue what JW's wear on there fingers, at marriage time and /or honeymoon rituals, now do I care..."
LIAR. You know full well they wear wedding rings just like everyone else. But because you have no defense for their participation in a 'pagan' ritual, you claim ignorance and feign disinterest.
Typical mentality amongst the Witnesses. I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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"Unlike yourself, I am not at all concerned with the actions of others."
Yet another lie on your part. If you weren't 'concerned with the actions of others', then why would you care about someone celebrating Christmas?
01Mary02 3 years ago
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Mary
IF JWs were unconcerned with others actions, then why would they preach?
pap177 3 years ago
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pap177, it's not me that said I was unconcerned with the actions of others, I was quoting what SmalltimR said.
01Mary02 3 years ago
I couldn't give a rats ass about people celebrating Christmas.
What does matter however, is where people like you think that you are somehow justified in discrediting others while you're none the better.
Sound familiar? If the JW's are hypocrites, then your 10x the hypocrite, and you have no authority whatsoever trying to direct others onto matters of right and wrong.
Sinking in yet? smart-ass.
I know your not that stupid, this is just the rubbing of the nose in your own feces.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 6
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"...I couldn't give a rats ass about people celebrating Christmas...."
Yet ANOTHER lie. Obviously you do care, because your religion derides both the holiday and those who celebrate it at every opportune moment.
"... If the JW's are hypocrites, then your 10x the hypocrite..."
Really? How exactly am I a hypocrite.
"...you have no authority whatsoever trying to direct others onto matters of right and wrong...."
I would make the same claim for the Governing Body members.
01Mary02 3 years ago
I don't care about someone celebrating Christmas.
What I do care about however, is people like yourself misleading others on the origins of Christmas. Huge difference.
The way I look at it, no one here deserves to share a fate with people like you and yours truly. You made your own bed with JW's, don't try and drag other innocent people into it with your pathetic biblical interpretations and lies.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 3
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"Its always fun to draw out your types into the open as you will so willfully hang yourself in the mangle of irrationality and lies that fuel your obsession."
LMAO..Yet ANOTHER typical response from a blind JW. Your failure to explain why Witnesses are allowed to participate in some pagan rituals but not others, is about what I expected. Rather than admit that it IS a double standard, you pat yourself on the back thinking you won the argument.
Just shows how delusional you really are. :-)
01Mary02 3 years ago
There's nothing left here for you to prove or argue about other than that of your own personal issues with a religious group, no more no less.
I certainly have nothing to explain or cover up. Perhaps next time, you will think twice before posting lies and unfounded accusations to discredit others in the face of your own errors.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 3
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Small
Why not just answer the allegations? I find it highly offensive that you accuse mary of posting lies. She may be misinformed, ignorant or even high on drugs, but calling her a liar is unfair.
pap177 3 years ago
Hey... if your not a JW, then you should be(lol). I sure as hell are not inclined to forgive this fool.
Read through the exchange and you will see where the discrepancies lie. The verdict is well warranted.
All it takes is a little humility and honesty.
But 01Mary02 insisted on playing the fool and that pisses me off. A person who's supposedly smart enough to quote literature(date and paragraph). But somehow to lame to acknowledge basic social principles.
Not to mention the evasion.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 3
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"...Read through the exchange and you will see where the discrepancies lie..."
I did a link to this 'discussion' to another site I'm on, and no one could believe your insane rants. You're not fooling anyone but yourself here SmalltimR.
"...But 01Mary02 insisted on playing the fool and that pisses me off...."
No, what pissed you off is that you had nothing of substance with which you could refute what I said.
01Mary02 3 years ago
1. Video - Celebrating Christmas is fine because JW's are worst than we are.
2. Individual - claims JW's actions have no bearing on the implications of Christmas.
3. Response - JW's this, JW's that...
If I haven't told you a thousand time, I haven't told you at all.
I don't give a shit about what JW's, say or practice.
I doubt anyone other than X-JW's would either.
Just don't go trying justify your pagan rituals with your own JW fixations.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
A) JW celebrations: no effects on origins of Christmas.
B) JW Jewelry traditions: no effect on origins of Christmas.
C) JW Wedding rituals: no effects on origins of Christmas.
Well now.
THe argument seems pretty pointless now doesn't it?
I think it's pretty clear why, I didn't refute what was said.
Can you believe this shit?
Regular people don't live their lives around JW's?
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
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Giving your kids a gift on Dec 25th: no effect on origins of Christmas
Getting together with family and friends: no effect on origins of Christmas
Remembering how Jesus was born: no effect on origins of Christmas.
Do you get it? People today do not behead others or worship Ba'al on Christmas. Therefore, the origins of it does not matter one bit, except in Watchtower World.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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"..THe argument seems pretty pointless now doesn't it?.."
Yep. I made my point and you were left looking like a fool. :-D
"...I think it's pretty clear why, I didn't refute what was said...."
It is CRYSTAL clear why you didn't refute anything: You couldn't.
"...Regular people don't live their lives around JW's?..."
So why do you keep responding with your insane rantings? Shouldn't you be getting ready for the Watchtower study? ;-P
01Mary02 3 years ago
Well you've made many points actually.
But none of them addressed the question which was charged to you when all of this started.
Look it up...
All you've presented throughout the entire exchange was smoke and mirrors in your own attempts to deter from the obvious.
You're right about one thing though, there is nothing left to argue about - Christmas is a horrible holiday, and any person who has been educated on it's origins trying to promote it onto others is nothing short of disgusting.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
@you didn't refute anything: You couldn't.
You're right! I didn't, your argument had no impact whatsoever on the implications of trying to justify Christmas.
Though I will admit, you almost had me enthralled in your scheme when I found myself googling CT Russel. But then I realized it was pointless since neither He nor anyone(for that matter) could change the nature of the problem.
Then again, JW's don't go around telling people Christmas is okay either(oops).
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
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pap177, this is not unusual behaviour in those involved in a high control group like the Witnesses. You have it drilled into your brain from birth that you are right, and the rest of the world is wrong.
Even when the facts are presented, the Witnesses will absolutely refuse to admit that they might possibly be in error. To do that might make them question the religion and that is something that is not allowed.
What's sad is that SmalltimR really believes in what he's saying.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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"...There's nothing left here for you to prove or argue about other than that of your own personal issues with a religious group.."
For once I agree with you. There's nothing left for me to prove, because I showed clear cut evidence at the hypocrisy of your religion. You had absolutely no rebuttal other than to call me names, so I guess my work here is done.
My only question is: Can you use the time you posted on here on your Field Service Report? LOL!!!
01Mary02 3 years ago
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"..I certainly have nothing to explain or cover up.."
TRANSLATION: You CAN'T explain the discrepancies I raised which obviously infuriates you so you delude yourself by thinking you've won the argument.
"..Perhaps next time you will think twice before posting lies and unfounded accusations to discredit others..."
Uh, no I won't 'think twice' about exposing the lies and hypocrisy of the WTB&TS. It's not very hard really, since they are constantly speaking out both sides of their mouths.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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I have no idea who this 01mary02 woman is but saying you have no clue what JWs wear on their fingers or honeymoon suggests you have lost the argument. Very unreasonable!
pap177 3 years ago
Right, well considering my argument was never about JW's to begin with(see original statement).
01Mary02 did a fine job proving that X-JW's will stop at nothing to discredit their rivalry.
Similarly, 01Mary02 was screwed the moment he tried to justify celebrating Christmas on one hand, while criticizing his opponents(who didn't) on the other(sheesh)
And so the rest of the exchange is 01Mary02 trying to convince himself that one wrong plus another = a right.
Give me a break.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
First you claim to know of the origins of Xmas.
Secondly, you make wild unsubstantiated claims regarding some guy who died in 1916.
Thirdly you try to justify pagan celebrations by pointing fingers at others, who you somehow claim to be worst than you as they refuse to celebrate....
I don't know if there is one word to sum-up your personality type. Whatever the case... it ain't pretty.
Rather than point fingers.
Try looking in the mirror next time!
You failed miserably this round.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
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Excuse me but what 'wild, unsubstantiated claims' did I make? It's a historical fact that Charles Russell knew Jesus' birthday was not Dec 25th, yet he actively promoted the celebration of it in his day.
My 'finger pointing' was to show the double standard in the Organization that once celebrated Xmas, but now view it as "satanic". You have not be able to prove otherwise.
I'm sure even someone with your limited intelligence can see you don't have a leg to stand on.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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Mary
Calm down. we do not know that smalltimr is of limited intelligence!
pap177 3 years ago
I can only assume that you are either ignorant of the facts behind the origins of Christmas, or... your worst than the accused you so willfully accused.
Either way, why don't you educated yourself on the real origins of Christmas(see: The Origin of Christmas and its Traditions parts 1-3 on YouTube) and then come back here to revise your claims.
Anyone who is aware of the origins of Christmas who in turns makes excuses to justify the celebration, needs his or her head examined.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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Perhaps YOU should educate yourself on the origins of many practices that JWs participate in, like baptism. It did not originate with Christianity but was an ancient Egyptian practice that the WT admits in the Apr 1/93 WT on p.4:
"It was employed in Babylonia & in ancient Egypt where the... waters of the Nile were thought to increase strength & bestow immortality. The Greeks also believed that baptism could bring regeneration or could procure immortality for the initiate."
01Mary02 3 years ago
You really need snap-out-of-it and recognize that these scandalous claims are purely limited to yours truly. Who cares what other people believe-in or carry out in part of their rituals? It is what it is...
Just don't go making-up shit and expect others not to notice what your doing in the process. It only makes you look that much more foolish than the ones you work so hard to discredit.
Now, the only hypocrite left is the one lying and making poor excuses to justify his or her own actions.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
The way I look at it.
The moment you point the finger, you just inherited your badge.
You have no credibility left in this thread here. Next time, don't like and do your homework rather than look like a fool.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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I have been reading this with interest. Why is when a JW apologist is backed into a corner, with a question they can't answer they start name calling?
digderidodo 3 years ago
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You're right digderidodo....Unfortunately, this is the way Witnesses are trained. They "know" they're right and they simply cannot handle it when they're shown to be wrong.
Therefore, when backed into a corner, they lash back, ignore questions, claim they've answered them, and feign ignorance.
01Mary02 3 years ago
You must really have your head up your ass to think people can't see straight through the bullshit.
The only thing separating you from those you criticize, is that you were to stupid to stay in the group to begin with.
Nevertheless, you'll always be, those X-JW'S
Just look at you...
You eat shit and sleep like deprived dogs and all you do is degrade yourselves further.
To live a life where the worst possible scenario is actually calling someone a JW is just pathetic - lol
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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Sooo, is that the best defense you can come up with? How exactly am I 'eating shit' and 'sleeping like a deprived dog'? All I did was respond to your original tirade about the 'evils of Xmas' and pointed out that the founder of your religion didn't see anything wrong with celebrating it.
Your increasingly irrational posts just shows the depth of your delusions while trying to defend a harmless celebration.
01Mary02 3 years ago
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SmalltimR are you a witness? Your language is appauling and simply degrades your arguements, i think it shows you lost this one maybe you should stop now.
demo16s 3 years ago
lmao
If you can't handle my language, then you had better get those corneas scraped my friend.
Lost...
We have just begun.
It took Mr. Mary 37 rounds to even admit the question I charged, let alone adrress it.
I get the feeling were here for the long haul.
It takes a great deal of patience and persistence to get through to mindwashed folks you guys.
But enough about that...
Lets focus on the BIG issue shall we..
"The justification of Christmas despite the facts"
SmalltimR 3 years ago 3
"then you had better get those corneas scraped my friend. "
LMAO!
deneba33 3 years ago 6
You have got to be, one of the stupidest people I've ever encountered on here. You bitch and complain about how evil the origins of Xmas are, as though the happenings of thousands of years ago has ANYTHING to do with celebrating Christmas today.
Christmas IS and CAN be justified you idiot. People today celebrate it as a joyous occasion and there are no beheadings, etc. Only the truly pathetic and whining individual like yourself would bash it.
You're truly pathetic.
01Mary02 3 years ago
You didn't watch the video's did you?(Typical brain wash)...
The true hypocrites always show their colors in the end. It's just to-bad none of you are honest enough to accept the responsibilities of your actions as you go along polluting peoples with your anti-JW propaganda.
Hypocrites? If only you were half as honest as a JW, you'd have a chance at being worthy of the place you occupy on this planet.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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I'm really glad you posted that. It is an EXCELLENT example of the mentality & mind control that Jehovah's Witnesses labour under and you put it out there for everyone to see.
If anyone was left to "look like a fool" in this debate, it was you, simply because you could not answer any of the questions put to you, and apparently do not even know your own religions' history very well. I suggest you read something other than what's churched out at Patterson. Better luck next time sweetheart.
01Mary02 3 years ago
X-JW Ultimate insult, call other person a JW(lol) - I mean seriously, this says it all right here doesn't it!
Your behavior is a stark reminder of how terrible life could be. Thank-God I am not in your shoes.
Still...Mental illness, brainwashing or fanaticism aside. None of that justifies your behavior. You people may not be sound of mind, but you are not immune to the criticism you bring onto yourselves with this type of behavior.
I don't care what religion or abuse you've been through.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
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Of course you're a Witness. Your furious response on here when I pointed out the double standard the JWs have, indicates that. No one other than an active JW would respond in the bizarre fashion you have. You claim disinterest and ignorance about their practices but you sure as hell seem to know alot about them.
This is ANOTHER typical tactic of JWs: pretending that they're not Witnesses as though an 'outsiders' defense of them gives them greater credibility.
Too bad it didn't work. :-)
01Mary02 3 years ago
I would never claim either-or in this thread.
Simply because I know that being one would antagonize you, and for some unknown reason, the thought of that puts a genuine smile on my face.
lmao
SmalltimR 3 years ago 4
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I think you should confess to the elders that you wrote the word "shit" on an internet forum. You're setting a poor example for Jehovah's people.
drbpony 3 years ago
Well your just chalked full of stupidity aren't you. Just as you assumed you know the origins of Christmas(wrong). Just as you assumed CT Russel was a hypocrite(wrong). You assume only a JW's can show you up.
You people are truly hopeless. Hung out with nothing left but your sorry ass to sit on.
Well...
At least you have Christmas and those damned JW's to point at.
Sad sad people. lol
SmalltimR 3 years ago 3
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How exactly was I wrong about the origins of Xmas? I never said Russell was a hypocrite---I said the WTS are hypocrites because they have a double standard in allowing SOME pagan practices, but disallow others.
Indeed, I think C.R. Russell was alot more open minded than the current group of goons who run the show.
Try looking beyond your own nose to see the big picture dickhead.
01Mary02 3 years ago
First you "claimed" to know the origins of Christmas. Then you went around justifying it(scriptures and some crap about honoring God's son).
So that left you with two alternatives.
Either you were "lying" about "knowing" the origins of Christmas. or... You knew all along and chose to mislead people into doing a terrible thing.
I know you don't want to admit it. But my opening charge in this entire argument was based on that premise alone.
The JW scandal was yours truly.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 3
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What in god's name are you babbling about? No one is denying that there were many aspects of Xmas that had its origin with pagans. That's not the issue. The issue is: Does the fact that pagans did something thousands of years ago have any bearing on the celebration of Xmas today? The answer is: NO. People today do not practice 'rituals', they buy each other gifts, sing Xmas Carols, honor Jesus & spend time with family & friends. Get your head out of your ass and THINK before you speak.
01Mary02 3 years ago
Finally... you get the balls to face the facts
Before ending this, let me confirm something:
Have you even bothered to look up the origins of Christmas(for real)?
Don't bullshit now...
Try real hard on a little honesty here, because if you did... then you just completely fucked yourself out of the argument.
Because... if you know the truth about Christmas(which is easy to do), then you are are as vile as the devil himself if your try to justify it.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 7
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Look dipshit, your pathetic argument was that if you celebrate Xmas today, you're 'evil' because there are 'pagan' conotations to it. You have not be able to deny that many of our customs today are steeped in paganism, but because you're too stupid to understand logic and reasoning, you don't see that that's a double standard.
Maybe you should go see your doctor about getting your meds switched...clearly the stuff you're taking isn't doing much good.
01Mary02 3 years ago
FALSE:
My argument was never about that.
Look at the top of the thread and come back when your ready to address it.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 8
You poor idiot.
In a way I feel bad for you people.
But on the other hand... I just can't stop laughing while I do it.
Oh well... its not like you don't deserve it.
I think to few people let you misfits pollute the web with your fanatic nonsense.
I look at it this way.
If the JW's didn't want you.
No one does.
lmao
SmalltimR 3 years ago 9
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"...You really need snap-out-of-it and recognize that these scandalous claims are purely limited to yours truly..."
No they are not dipstick. It's all there in black and white in the WT's own literature. Can you not read simple English?
"...Who cares what other people believe-in or carry out in part of their rituals?..."
Obviously the WTS cares because otherwise, why would they disfellowship members who celebrate Xmas?
Good lord, are you really this thick?
01Mary02 3 years ago
Ever notice that the only people who care what JW's do and practice are X-JW'S!
My take on all this was never about the JW's to begin with(duh)!
It was all about you and the others who post here, thinking that no one would ever notice the overwhelming stupidity you possess to ever accept your claims on hypocrisy when you yourselves are a tenfold the hypocrites.
So, shit or get off the pot as they say.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 9
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Wow. Too bad your nose didn't grow every time you told a lie. What do you think Jehovah would think of you telling lies? Tsk, tsk, tsk.
How sad that you cannot see how ridiculous you look with your ridiculous posts, each one becoming more and more out of touch with reality.
01Mary02 3 years ago
Right, because I'm the one spreading the good word on Christmas.
I'll give you one thing. You were right to kick and scream at the sight of hypocrisy.
It is indeed a horrible attribute to possess, And since you stand on top of the heap, you must truly feel bad about how you foolishly tried to justify celebrating it as you half-haphazardly blamed others of wrong-doing.
I don't know much about JW's. But I have am certain that you are well deserving of criticism you received.
SmalltimR 3 years ago 9
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"...I don't know much about JW's...."
Actually, what you don't know would fill an encyclopedia. Plus, you're still lying your ass off, pretending that you're not a Witness. Are you still counting this as time on your field service report duffus?
01Mary02 3 years ago
Oh alright, you caught me...
I was going to deny this to the end but... there is just no fooling you is there?
Next Sunday when I go to pray, I will tell all my JW brotherin' about you and how you totally exposed the organization leaders for the pagan pushers they truly were.
And to show my sincerity, I'm going to request that the my minister read some of your inspiring bible interpretations to the congregation too.
True story!
SmalltimR 3 years ago 9
dude i see what ur doing here and its kinda funny an all but i just gotta ask the perverbial question "why"
deneba33 3 years ago 10
Boredom.
The greater good.
Don't like fanatics.
Pick one, or all of the above, whatever works for you :)
SmalltimR 3 years ago 2
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More like: you're a pathetic snivelling jerk who apparently has nothing better to do with his time, than to shake his fist at all those heathen bastards who dare to celebrate Christmas.
01Mary02 3 years ago
I have no issues whatsoever with what people do or don't celebrate(unlike some).
What does irritate me however, is when people, walk around "claiming" to know origins of Christmas while trying to justify it on a religious basis.
Having said that, there is always the possibility that those persons, didn't have the proper information to begin with since it's common for people to believe that the incorrect date of Christ is about it.
However, nothing could be further from the truth.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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"...What does irritate me is when people, walk around "claiming" to know origins of Christmas while trying to justify it on a religious basis..."
Oh good lord, give your head a shake. You've been bitching and whining about people celebrating Xmas because of it's pagan roots from the start. I've repeatedly asked you why it's okay that many of our customs today have it's roots in paganism & you don't bat an eye, but flip right out over Christmas.
You haven't been able to answer this.
01Mary02 3 years ago
Nope, never once complained about people celebrating Christmas.
You just quoted what I complained about.
Look through my posts and you'll see it over and over and over again.
I'm still waiting to hear your pathetic excuse for promoting Christmas though bible scriptures while pointing the finger at others.
I know you have nothing. I just like rubbing it in your face is all.
Still, it would be nice to hear it(for the record).
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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I think the video pretty well explains it. The angels rejoiced when Christ was born, there's nothing in the scriptures condemning the celebration of His birth and in fact says that we should not be judging one another with regards to celebrating a holiday.
Again I ask the question you refuse to answer: Why is it ok that many of our customs today have their roots in paganism that we all use including you, yet you deride Xmas for it's 'satantic' roots.
01Mary02 3 years ago
well I certainly can't find fault in recognizing Christs birth. However, you would think that people would put enough emphasis on this momentous occasion to get the date right? I mean... what really matters here? The upholding pagan rituals or the commemoration of Christs arrival into the world? Looks to me like people are far more concerned with upholding their own agenda's by adding Jesus as a component rather than the center in the rather poor choice of rituals that make-up Christmas.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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I think it would be great if we actually knew the exact date, but we don't. The birth of Christ was actually implemented on December 25th, not because anyone wanted to make it 'pagan', but because the Christians at that time were competing with the pagans for dominance and since the Romans were celebrating the birth of the sun-god on Dec 25th, the Christians countered by saying 'hey--then that's the day WE'RE going to celebrate the birth of the Son of God.
01Mary02 3 years ago
Look at it this way: Would you ever consider drawing pentagons in your window and reciting demon chants as part of your commemoration to Christs birth?(rhetorical) but if you contemplate the implications of Christmas in its current form, then you will quickly see the senselessness behind it. There is no way the God of the holy bible(if you believe in one), would ever accept people paying tribute to his son through pagan rituals. I don't care what anyone says... it just isn't going to happen.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
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Which pagan ritual(s) is it that you find so offensive?
01Mary02 3 years ago
I only posted this twice already, and this will be the last time. So either you face the facts or continue in ignorance(your choice).
Look up:
"The Origin of Christmas and its Traditions (Part 1 through f3)"
and come back to let us know what "you think" about it all.
The video will also address your other comment about the innocence in the date of Jesus' birth.
I look forward to your reply following the video's.
SmalltimR 3 years ago
@Why is it ok that many of our customs today have their roots in paganism that we all use including you, yet you deride Xmas for it's 'satantic' roots.
Well that depends on your angle after all. Are you "claiming" to be an honest God fearing individual who lives his or her life to uphold God's will? If so, then once you have been educated on such matters, there are no excuses. You are either in or out(so to speak).
This would apply of course to all walks of life(JW's included).
SmalltimR 3 years ago
fuckn A
It's true xmas is jacked with m