Yeah, right...a "message to ALL of the Candidates...this piece of shit is so Left wing, he should really look out for Michele Obozo's anti-FAT ASS crusade!
Free energy has been here all along ,But Elite controllers don't want ppl to be free from the costs of energy,Get a real free energy motor at LT-MAGNET-MOTORdotCOM ,Join the energy revolution!
1. REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL. Two massive tax cuts for the VERY RICH under Bush which were NOT paid for. 2. They ran up EIGHT TRILLION OF DEBT! When Clinton left office we had a surplus (ZERO DEBT). 3. They spend A TRILLION on the Iraq war TO DATE. 4. They DON'T want to give healthcare to the citizens in the RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD under a plan that IS PAID FOR. 5. Republicans ALSO used reconcilation! 6. They perpetuate FEAR MONGERING AND SCARE TACTICS. THEY ARE EVIL AND DISGUST ME!
Ameritards, in general, are one of the most undisciplined when it comes to leading a healthy lifestyle. I see so many people every day who are basically immobile, the sole reason appears to be they are FATBUCKETS. Also the amount of people in this country who abuse drugs/alcohol/food, has to be one of the highest in the world. Maybe the government should encourage insurance companies to give BIG discounts to their insured clients, for meeting certain health markers (weight, bp, nonsmoker,etc).
Michael, thank you for posting this. If you are serious about organizing against the Democrats who sold us out for money, I as a Democrat will volunteer to help you organize. I live in L.A., and am willing to travel.
Hope you read this. Thanks for having the courage to say what many of us feel about this.
Hey Mike, I wish you could do a little more blogging on youtube. We really like to hear what you have to say on the important issues that go on unanswered. Take care.
seriously people, look at any country now living with universal health care... don't be scared of it! it is SO much better: sames lives, worries, money, AND IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY! that's right, many studies have concluded it DOESN'T cost more, but ACTUALLY saves more!. it's NOT communist. if anyone, that ideology is what stops the forward movement of the U.S.A. is the world, your inability to share, because you're are afraid of losing what you have, when in reality, it gets you more.
Michael Moore is a commie savage. Why the hell would I want to pay my taxes for universal healthcare? It's bad enough as is, with the gov. deciding what to do. But everyone's answer is always the same...we need more regulation. This is why everything is messed up. The solution makes things worse...
That's completely untrue. Insurance companies work with the government. It's quasi-self-regulated. This is why everyone attacks "free enterprise." Because in America it's reulated indirectly by the government, through the companies. We do not have a free market...
A central feature of the U.S. economy is a reliance on private decision-making ("economic freedom") in economic decision-making. This is enhanced by relatively low levels of regulation, taxation, and government involvement, as well as a court system that generally protects property rights and enforces contracts.-WIKIPEDIA
That sounds beautiful, but that doesn't exist in actuality: low levels of regulation, taxation, etc. The Fed's involvement in our "economic freedom" is the reason why the dollar's burning down... I mean can you tell me that paying income tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, this and that tax is an indication that the government has a hands off economic policy in America? A(nd btw, do you think that Wikipedia, too, isn't regulated, especially in regards to government topics?
u may not want regulation or any form like that,but people in europe dont support laissez faire laws, we want mixed economy, i m socialist by the way, i belive in public porperty not in private property.
How can you speak on behalf of ALL the people of Europe? You're mode of thinking is collectivist and communist; those idealologies lead to fascism. The EU is already on its way, imo, to a communized government; thankfully there was opposition by the French (against the Constitution) and then the Irish (against the Lisbon treaty). And not everyone is happy in Eur. with social healthcare. My uncle, in Ireland, had to wait a month for heart surgery. In the US, one can usually get surgery asap.
haha. u ppl r scared the neo-cons in america r scared ,in europe PEOPLE fourght4 there social rights thats y we have mixed economy, and high lving standards then the USA , we r more stable then USA.and people where aginst the treaty because it didnt have the will of the majority, people in EU are neo-liberalist at the moment,treaty doesnt reflect the people and bigger countries have more power in the EU.
Oh, you're coming off as a blowhard and a braggart. Don't forget who was the first country to cut itself from Europe, since Europe was too busy getting itself in wars and blowing itself up every second. And why? Because people in America didn't want the government butting into their business, through high taxes, etc. Your understanding of history is reflected by your grammar: it's poor. Even the Chinese write better English than you...
Mike, I'm a Grunt 26 years worth of ground pounding and a family line I can trace back to the Civil War. I'll tell you something, you're right. You hit the nail square on the head with just about everything you have written. I'm mad as hell I have PTSD and a failed marriage because of the things I did and saw. We are being dumbed down in our schools. We are killing Millions of people since the end of WWII for the 1% with the money. Educate us on the power elite so we can hold them accountable
The poor and those of the middle class who empathise with them are demanding increasing levels of socialist reform in the U.S. but how plausible is it to implement universal health care in a country of such economic structure? I'm not an American, and I live in a country with universal health care and it works great for US, here, but I'm not totally convinced that the need of the have-nots doesn't greatly outweigh the resources of the have-somes.
You've got to stop hating and knocking Mike Moore. Can't you see that SOMEONE has got to take the initiative to care about others? Michael does that, he doesn't need to care about you but he does.
We all seek that 15 minutes of fame (that's why YOU are here). He's spending his 15 mins. here on youtube, on you, trying to remedy another shitty situation.
Chances are mr. Naysayer, that one (or more) of Michael's efforts have already benefited you and some closed ears have opened. Be thankful.
Moore, my family and I love you. You care a lot about everyone, even when they hate you. I was touched when I heard you put up the money to help the wife of the guy who hated you... you're a Saint. You really are a Prophet.
But you do have to work out more. I want you to live for a very long time. :D
"Anybody who likes michael moore is a complete fuckin retard. The guy doesnt even know what the fuck he is talking about. He doesn't ever come up with his own solutions he just brings everyone else's down. GOD I FUCKING HATE PUSSY ASS HIPPIE LIBERALS "
You're a moron. The very fact you knew how to find this means you know how to read, though... thank God you probably don't know how to reproduce though.
"everyone knows this guy is an idiot...people in canada have to wait years for some procedures "
You're the idiot. I live in Canada and the healthcare is so good you don't have to worry about anything. Sure, waiting sucks, but you know what? Better to wait WITHOUT BEING DRAINED OF YOUR INCOME, YOUR HOUSE, AND EVERYTHING YOU OWN. GOD. WAKE UP.
One of my husband's coworkers aunt and uncle both died waiting for that wonderful health care in Canada. She was waiting for chemo and he was diabetic and got an infection. They had a two month waiting list to get in for help and ended up dying a week apart. The health care is wonderful as long as you are healthy
"Demanding equality won't do jack shit, you have to show that you ARE equal. 90% the people "demanding equality" either either don't deserve it, or are demanding special treatment, and not equality. I'm hardly rich, but I'd do just fine supporting myself if I didn't have the government skimming my paycheck. "
EVERYONE deserves equality. No one is better than anyone else. What is this? Animal Farm? THESE ARE HUMAN LIVES. EACH ONE IS SACRED!
You have no idea what you're saying, jarheadtoo. Mike took people who WORKED TO SAVE YOUR PATHETIC ASS on 9/11 to get healthcare because YOUR OWN DAMNED GOVERNMENT wouldn't help them. Wouldn't help 9/11 heroes.
""Universal health care is not a good thing. I agree that the government should play a bigger role as far as regulating what happens and making sure that people are not getting scammed, but 100% free health care would be disastrous. A free market is the best way to ensure better quality. ""
You have no idea what universal healthcare is. You've been lied to your entire life. I pity you. I pity America.
"Universal healthcare is not free!!!!!!!!!!!!! You pay for it indirectly through taxes, and why should my tax dollars go to pay for some dumbass that smokes cigarettes, drinks, or eats mcdonalds everyday? "
Your tax is going to a military that kills people. It's going to a government that kills people by denying them healthcare.
You're not denying lazy people healthcare, you're denying human beings the right to live.
Genius, we pay for the military so we can continue to enjoy the freedoms that the MILITARY gave us by winning past conflicts. I'm not real clear what world it is you think you live in, but not all people are good people here. In fact, most aren't. Getting something for nothing isn't right.
Nobody's denying human beings the right to live. Well, except those who are pro-choice. But I bet you'll come back with a liberal swing at how it's a choice then. Genius, Pure genius. Except, exact opposite.
"Let me get this straight, you want everybody to have the same thing whether they work hard or sit on their ass, sounds like communism not democracy or capitalism at least"
So if you see a poor family suffering and a rich family not suffering, you're fine with that? You're disgusting. You're not human.
America has NO LESS QUALITY in their healthcare than anywhere else. You want to deny children dying of cancer because they have no money? YOU'RE the sick fuck, not Mike and NOT the people trying to tell you to get the hell out of your box and open your eyes, carRamRod04.
As a Canadian, pongman, I have to tell you it is better to wait in a hospital in Canada than to be denied and bankrupted by slimey lying med-regulators in America.
As a Canadian who pays taxes and gets free healthcare, I can honestly tell you, it doesn't cost a lot at all. It's much less than what's being syphoned out of your wallet and into your precious American Military.
jacobhall25, As a Canadian, I have to laugh my ass off at your comment about our government deciding when we get treated. I got hit by a car, taken to hospital, treated, AND released all in the same day. Can that happen in the US? Not without oodles of cash! I'm glad I'm Canadian.
moore might wear his heart on his sleeve but at least you can see wear his true passions are .. more than could be said for your quick talking... TWO FACED LYING politicians
Universal health care in not possible until some serious tort law reforms. Doctors should be immune from lawsuits whenever their treatments provide the least harm to the patient.
Too often they save someones life, then get sued for stupid things like scars or 'emotional trauma'.( meanwhile the original cause of the injury is nowhere to be blamed)
I totally respect any politician who forgoes free treatment unless the public get the same.
...or leaving a clamp inside your abdomin, or cutting off the wrong leg...ooops, or killing 100,000 per year with PROPERLY prescribed medication, or being a tool of the Pharma industry and basically learning how to push pills instead of health.
Or how the AMA lobbied to get cancer treatment defined as ONLY chemo, surgury or radiation with all 'alternatives' labelled as illegal. The AMA is a racket...
Go buy a book on Barry Goldwater, Robert Taft, and Austrian Economics. Read them, pay taxes for a decade and come back and insult me when you have a clue.
Paul will be our next President in 2008, he's already raised more than any other candidate in the GOP. He's unstoppable. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - GHANDI
I disagree w/ Mike on this one, and I like Michael Moore--he's funny and has a lot of attitude. Still, I think a better solution would be to enforce tighter regulations on corporations which require better health benefits for their employees. It's true there would be alot of part-timers laid off, but keep in mind these people often have 2 or 3 PT jobs w/ no benefits. Instead, they'd have 1 job with full health benefits. I don't want to pay for someone who isn't working though.
Should a 500 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption? Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class? Should a person who thought that Enron was a great investment, that Ralph Nader, Wesley Clark and John Kerry would win, and that North Korea's Kim Jong was changing for the better, advise us on anything?
It's not the responsiblity of the government to provide for every need of a person. As a christian myself I think the church needs to step up and help people who CAN'T help themselves not people who don't want to help themselves.
boss42971, the govt. "provides" for some and does not "provide" for others every time it writes a law (determines who goes to jail and who doesn't or think of copyright legislation) or everytime it changes its tax policy (decides who gets to keep their money how much and who has pay and how much). You have no explanation of why the govt should not, in particular, provide for people's health care.
The FairTax would take care of the vote buying system with the current tax system. Also, where is the money for socialized healthcare going to come from? From your paycheck through MORE taxes.
Like our health care doesn't come out of our paychecks now? Difference is with a single payer system the amount is less. If you want to spend more so that the CEO of United Health can make a billion in profits, be my guest. Just send him a check.
I don't disagree health care is a mess. I just disagree that putting another system more so within the control of the government is the solution. In fact I believe that is one of the problems with health care. I personally don't have anything to do with traditional health care.
Thank you Michael Moore for using your power to help the working class and poor families of America. You are a true patriot hero and a great role model for our children.
google Bush Body Count or Bush Lies or a million other things. Or just use common sense and add up the number of Americans killed by terrorists when Clinton was president vs the number killed when Bush was and see who's better at security. Who just "accidentally" sold f-14 fighter parts to Iran? Clinton? Guess again...
I'm just curious as to what makes America so great. This is supposed to be the best country, but it only seems that way for the wealthy. What makes america so much better than Canada? or Germany? or any other developed nation.
What makes America great is the opportunity to do better. I hate to break it to you but many rich people have done it themselves, as well as upper middle class. Our standard of living is better than any major country in the world. We allow people like you to write on the internet.
Every major industrialized country allows that. England allows you to write on the internet too. Gosh but wait they have (ghasp) socialized health insurance! I guess no one there has any incentive to work or opportunity to succeed.
English health care is shit. Just read the British Medical Journal online. They talk about a lack of medical facilities and fears of future hospital closings. Their Medical Research Council is being torn a new one for their poor practice. How many ground breaking drugs have come out of England in the last 10 years?
So let's have a serious conversation about how we can get universal healthcare in a way that avoids England's problems; their problems are all well documented so they should be easy to avoid. And let's have a conversation about better ways to fund drug research; economists all argue we should spend more on research and development. Oh wait, we can't have those conversations b/c Republicans aren't serious about those problems.
Just read American medical Journals. Tell me how health care is better here for the 45 million Americans who have no health coverage? And actually quite a few ground breaking drugs have come out of England Tell me all the ones coming out of the US?
What is your source for this? Have you seen any comparative studies? It sounds like most of what you are saying about other countries comes from blind patriotism and bigotry --not facts. I know that the life expectancy is longer and the infant mortality rate is lower in France than the US. So that right there isn't "better" here.
So over-paying for our health care or not being covered at all gives us more opportunities? I take back what I said, our education system is screwed up if it produces that kind of thinking.
Free heathcare for all? The rich would just be moved to the front of the line as they slipped extra money to the Doctors. So the poor would be way way down at the bottom and would die before getting the medical treatment they needed. You are such an idiot Michael.
No the rich and like anyone else to opt out. You can pay 6,000 a year or more if you want to--but a single payer plan would save money and you could never be cancelled from the insurance compaines.
Notice how when we talk about the federal budget we ignore unfunded "liabilities" like SS and Medicare/Medicaid. I put liabilities in quotes, because the federal government isn't actually contractually obligated to pay us anything, but if they don't pay up there will be great dissent from the public that could easily spark something as dramatic as a revolution of some sort.
Federal Budget accounting is only out done in shadiness by the UN and the EU.
Ah but Enron, Texico, Halliburton, and the Savings and Loan Industry are all out in the open about everything. it is not "contractually obligated," it is required by federal law. And who enforces the contracts of private companies anyhow? would that be ... Oh no! the government! Eeek!
And to point out how spending on overhead can and does add value...
Lets start a lobby to reduce all the wasteful overhead banks spend. I want to start with all the money they waste on security and armored vehicles to transfer cash around. Just let Joe employee throw plastic bags of it in the trunk of their car and transport it where it needs to go.
But then more money would get stolen which would add to shrinkage which would increase overhead. You still want the system with the least overhead. Period. Your point seems to be that spending more = spending less. Kind of an Orwellian "war is peace" thing. If the cost of security exceeds the amount that would be stolen then you would want to go ahead and allow the stealing to the degree that the system is most efficient.
So what proof then do you have the MB = MC at the level of overhead spent by the federal government on Medicare?
What if MB > MC, at the point where Medicare is. Then the government is not spending enough on overhead to be efficient.
Of course the government has the incentive to minimize the costs that get reported to the public(regardless of MB and MC), while sweeping under the rug any fraud that might be occurring.
And a CEO has no incentive to cover up fraud? There is rampant fraud and malfeasance in the private sector. No one here is pro-fraud, so let's eliminate that from the equation please. Government numbers are by law open to public scrutiny to at least the same degree that corporate numbers are. You show me the medicare employee who's taking home over a billion dollars this year and why giving someone a billion dollars is the most efficient use of my health care premiums.
If someone can demand a billion dollars in the private sector it probably means he is the very good at what he does. Here are examples of why I am honestly afraid of government programs: public school system, social security,
Social security is what got us out of the Great Depression and most of us are products of the public school system and do just fine, thank you. Go to a country without all these evil government programs and tell me how great it is to live there.
Are trying to tell me that social security isn't in a mess and that public schools are okay? Oh, social security did not get us out of the great depresson. Your public school education is obviously not up to speed and your government has put you at a serious disadvantage.
Yes it did. Along with the rest of the New Deal programs that wingnuts today would call "communist." Sounds like maybe YOUR education was messed up, but that's not because of the system. Go live in a country that doesn't have a government social safety net and tell me how great it is. Right wing talking points are no substitute for facts. Look em up.
Very good at rigging the system with million-dollar lobbyists and paid-for lawmakers like Bill Frist and Tom Delay. Good at gouging the public and conning people into thinking that there is some moral value to paying too much for health care and denying people benefits.
No, it did not pull us out of the depression. I've looked at enough statistical data and read enough material to come to a good conclusion that they had hardly anything to do with it. The programs kept people in inner cities from starving, but they had hardly anything to do with jumpstarting the economy.
See dear you know nothing about it. It was the war that got us out of the depression. The Programs did in fact help most of the old Americans--but for what I get from you--you would rather the old people just lay down and die. What good are they right. All other people should move out of your way. Gees--I do believe the Rep's have lost their way from God.
No it isn't the families responsibility--I won't take away my 80 year old's monther dignity (have you ever heard of that word). She paid into the system and she will keep her dignity.
In the bible it says that it is the family's responsibility. If your mom paid into the system she should get her money back, but we have to stop this. If your mom had invested the money she was forced to put in the gov't system she would be much better off.
I don't care how to read the bible-you are a Conservative that has left the teachings of Jesus. What you have to say doesn't matter to me. All you are fighting for is more money. You don't fight for the lives or souls of people.
U.S. Healthcare Reform: The American health care system is in a crisis and has reached a critical point across the nation. The United States is the ONLY major industrialized nation in the world that has a privatized for-profit health care system that benefits only a few. Please go visit my website 'The Biggest Michael Moore Fansite' geocities dot com/moorefans
I think universal health care would be really practical, and totally affordable for a our government. oh, but we would have to stop wasting all of our tax money on war. of course. which is more important:: healing or killing?
A surgeon general's report in 2006 that called on Americans to help tackle global health problems has been kept from the public by a Bush political appointee without any background or expertise in medicine or public health, chiefly because the report did not promote the administration's policy...
(By Christopher Lee and Marc Kaufman, The Washington Post)
shadfurman: Let me try to understand, you believe that other major industralized nations (allies of the US like England) who have UHC for all British citizens are communists? That kind of logic is unbelievable not to mention completely insane.
Please try to understand the British are also captialists & people in England have to go to work to pay the bills. Except there's a big difference, there are NO medical bills/bankruptcy that exists. They will NEVER lose their home, their live savings, everything they EVER worked for in their entire lives to a for-profit medical system. Just watch Moore's film 'Sicko' & make YOUR OWN judgement.
And people are saying the 1% overhead for medicare is misleading... fine maybe it's so misleading it's five times as much it's still not 30%.
The difference is this: When a medicare employee pockets some extral money, that's called fraud and that person is liable to be investigated and prosecuted. When an HMO exec pockets extra money that's called profit, and it's hunky-dory. If you are against fraud and waste, then the current system completely backwards.
If you actually read the paper I referenced a day ago or so you'd realize that they estimate an apples to apples comparison of Medicare at about 5% overhead and the private sector at 8-10%.
You sound very confident in your 30% overhead for a private insurer.
Would you please cite 1 publicly traded health insurance company that has a 30% overhead.
31.5% is the overall cost of overhead for US private health care consumer companies according to the New England Journal of Medicine 2006 study. If you look at United Health gross profit margin it's about 24% --8-10% would make sense if you didn't count shareholder dividends. Remember in the private world, net profits aren't considered "overhead." That billion the United CEO got last year as a bonus came from somewhere.
Overhead is a red herring. Which would be better: A private system that spends a total of $1B which happens to include 12% overhead, or a public system with rampant fraud and abuse that pays out $1.1B, which includes 6% overhead? "Overhead" is meaningless: the public system wasted $100M.
Part of "overhead" is spent to prevent fraud and abuse, so the higher the overhead, the lower total benefits paid. The implication is that lower overhead means greater efficiency, but that's simply not true.
So there's no fraud at all ever in the private system. "The implication is that lower overhead means greater efficiency, but that's simply not true." So what you're saying is paying more money for less health care benefits is more efficient? Wow, gee I never thought of it that way. Maybe because I'm not insane.
carRamRod04: Sorry I disagree, the gov't didn't create HMO's. The Gov't passed laws & allowed them to exist in the place. In most other major industralized nations (i.e. England), the current U.S. healthcare system would be considered cruel, illegal and immoral to deny so many citizen THEIR right to have healthcare access. Your taxes are paying for the pharma's research for new drugs and stuff but the for-profit U.S. healthcare system doesn't cover everyone & bankrupts people.
In U.S. the mentality is that health insurance should be considered to be a commodity rather than a basic human right. The American people have been told for decades from the for-profit medical establishment that the U.S. government is NOT responsible for providing every American citizen and legal resident the ability to access to free UHC for life.
I understand what you're saying, however when it comes to issues such as access to high quality health care for all American citizens it becomes a life or death issue. Moore is right, its time to reform health care in America. The US Gov't needs to do it's job, bring an American National Health Care Service. Get rid of HMO's! Once and for all!
Why doesn't the government do it's job and bring us food to our doors and make sure we all have new clothes and are regularly entertained while they are at it. Cause we are all too stupid to see something we should avoid and find (or create) a better solution. We are all fat and so the government should do everything for us. Oh wait... we ARE the government...
The government enforces property laws, and in doing so, it protects the interests of the rich (who are never really "self-made"). And no, "we" are not the government. Last time I checked my government worked for really rich people who made really big campaign donations. Look it up.
I know exactly what you are referring too and from your statement you seem to be just the personality Micheal Moore caters too. There are PLENTY of "self-made" VERY rich people, I've met many and spent my life studying them. We are the government, lobbyists are only given power to do what they do by our own apathy. We can't go around being jealous of rich or powerful, we have MORE opportunity here than in any other country.
Once again. Private police, roads, infrastructure etc don't make sense and universal government run food doesn't make sense. Universal health care does. So let's stop the apple vs oranges stuff.
Yes I agree, but sometimes analogy examples between apples and oranges are beneficial cause rarely are too things exactly the same. I don't agree that universal heath care makes sense. If you have a case for it make it. Health care as it stands is broken, or at least severely damaged. But turning it over to the government won't make it better, government is prone to the same corruptions as private companies.
That is true, but in this case the differences are very important. They're not suggesting that the government run "health care" as in government clinics --the way a government run grocery store would be --but government run health insurance. Nobody needs "food insurance."
Health insurance is nothing more than prepayment on expected future benefits. If universal health insurance is so important, certainly universal food stamps must be higher up on the priority list.
And then you have to consider the problem of, how are we going to determine individual premiums?
I take it you want to base health insurance premiums on income(which is not correlated to expected benefits).
But if you take such a stance, shouldn't you also lobby for food prices based on income?
Does anyone need food insurance? How many chapter 11s are filed because of individual food bills? Ever get a catastrophic food emergency you couldn't cover? And government assistance with food is already income based --so stop comparing completely different things, or I'll have to ask you again why you don't want private companies don't run our police departments.
I'd take competing mafias over a state run police any day.
How many poor people do you know that can afford to eat a healthy balanced diet?
Grain is the most heavily subsidized agri product in the country and subsequently the poor in general eat high carb unhealthy diets.
If you really believe in government as a provider, it would spend tax dollars much more efficiently in getting the poor on healthier diets and being preventative rather than reactionary and throwing it into health care.
Actually WIC and other state and federal programs promote a very healthy diet --and often require and provide periodic exams for children to make sure they are getting the nutrition they need. Besides do you think that maybe they would eat better if there was no government help for them? Go to a country without these programs and tell me why it's better to live there.
"I'd take competing mafias over a state run police any day." LOL. Now you're just being crazy. Russia has pretty much that system now, go check it out. Fughetaboutit.
The governments only "job" is to "GOVERN" people. (I'd throw in militia and roadway infrastructure in there too) The government is not a provider. OUR job is to provide things for ourselves.
shadfurman, you, of course, have no argument to support the idea that the "government's only 'job' it to 'govern'"; that's a moral argument; I would to see what premises it rests on. Your claim about how we must "provide things for ourselves" is, of course, also a fiction as people never entirely provide for themselves. There's this thing called history: we are products of it.
Well then why don't you just go all the way and say that we should be communist and have the government provide everything. We are not "products" of history, we are only products of our own decisions. And in any debate the terms reduced to their least common denominators are ALWAYS moral arguments.
Yes they do always come down to "moral arguments"; the point is that you have no defense for your libertarian moral argument. The US is a highly socialist country; it's been one since at least the New Deal; in some respects it should be more of one. Your comment about history does not even pass the laugh test; how did you get to even be in the US? You chose to be born in the US?
Well I don't appreciate at all derogatory comments as such as you've made. You say I don't have a defense for my arguments, but then you only choose to insult me instead of present your own. Yes, the country is becoming socialist, and our forefathers foresaw and warned against it. We need to fix it.
We are only products of our own decisions? OK I decide to inherit a million dollars. Where is it? What wrong decision did those 11 million children with no health coverage make? Those of us lucky enough to live comfortably are standing on the shoulders of people who stood on the shoulders of people. No one does it alone.
Of course not. A vast majority of our life is a result of factors outside of our control. But if we strive for equal protection under the law(see 14th Amendment), one would rightly conclude that since everyone is not born into equal conditions and the government is required to treat us equally, then outcomes will be unequal.
We're not talking about guaranteed happiness, just guaranteed basic rights. How can one pursue happiness at all when their basic needs for survival aren't covered? You were probably born with health coverage of some kind from your parents. What decision did you make for that to happen? What wrong decision did the 11 million children in this country who aren't covered make?
so you're saying that if people screw up it isn't there fault. If that's the case where is the incentive to work hard and suceed if you must share it with people like you who sit around and feel sorry for yourselves.
how can you say that we shouldn't help people in our own country. the incentive is so that when you need help and you are in a time of hardship yourself, you are not denied help on the basis that "it's your fault".
I'm not saying you shouldn't help people. I believe community service and food drives are a great thing and participate in them. However, I believe that it is not the responsibility of the government.
You're 18 years old. HA! What do you know about the world yet???? Absolutely nothing of substance. First, do some reading about the history of America at the turn of the century from the 1800s to 1900s and tell me how good it was to leave the government out of corporate affairs.
Second, to state that 'it's not your fault' is a ridiculous notion must clearly indicate that you are white. Do you realize how lucky you aand I are just to be white in this country? Some people don't get the same advantages as we do and need government help, yes. Some weren't lucky enough to be born into a
neighborhood where their school actually taught them things. They may now only be able to find a job where insurance coverage isn't offered to their employees. So according to you, they aren't worth it to be healthy and get care when necessary.
Keep up the wonderful work, Michael! That way my family in the US, as well as every other citizen, may actually have a better-deserving life.
11strelokfan1000 6 months ago
Yeah, right...a "message to ALL of the Candidates...this piece of shit is so Left wing, he should really look out for Michele Obozo's anti-FAT ASS crusade!
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cadentavaricegrtrj 1 year ago
looks like he finally had a stroke...
not surprising.
slikkwon 1 year ago
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1. REPUBLICANS ARE EVIL. Two massive tax cuts for the VERY RICH under Bush which were NOT paid for. 2. They ran up EIGHT TRILLION OF DEBT! When Clinton left office we had a surplus (ZERO DEBT). 3. They spend A TRILLION on the Iraq war TO DATE. 4. They DON'T want to give healthcare to the citizens in the RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD under a plan that IS PAID FOR. 5. Republicans ALSO used reconcilation! 6. They perpetuate FEAR MONGERING AND SCARE TACTICS. THEY ARE EVIL AND DISGUST ME!
ersatx210 1 year ago
Ameritards, in general, are one of the most undisciplined when it comes to leading a healthy lifestyle. I see so many people every day who are basically immobile, the sole reason appears to be they are FATBUCKETS. Also the amount of people in this country who abuse drugs/alcohol/food, has to be one of the highest in the world. Maybe the government should encourage insurance companies to give BIG discounts to their insured clients, for meeting certain health markers (weight, bp, nonsmoker,etc).
tickyul 1 year ago
sounds right to me. why accept from the masses what they themselves cant have. itd just be ill-gotten gains
tsukinoda 2 years ago
Michael, thank you for posting this. If you are serious about organizing against the Democrats who sold us out for money, I as a Democrat will volunteer to help you organize. I live in L.A., and am willing to travel.
Hope you read this. Thanks for having the courage to say what many of us feel about this.
OrmEmber 2 years ago 2
God bless this man and everything he's done for this country!!! Thanks Michael!!!
KyndestKid 3 years ago 4
lol to samthejokerman .. "don't be afraid of it" lol
boibyfoicehugg 3 years ago
what the hell is wrong with his face? Looks like he has a lazy eye.
fairmermaid50 3 years ago
What the hell is wrong with your face? Looks like you have a big mouth that spews shit.
lespaulrentals 2 years ago
Hey Mike, I wish you could do a little more blogging on youtube. We really like to hear what you have to say on the important issues that go on unanswered. Take care.
kotk05 3 years ago
seriously people, look at any country now living with universal health care... don't be scared of it! it is SO much better: sames lives, worries, money, AND IS GOOD FOR THE ECONOMY! that's right, many studies have concluded it DOESN'T cost more, but ACTUALLY saves more!. it's NOT communist. if anyone, that ideology is what stops the forward movement of the U.S.A. is the world, your inability to share, because you're are afraid of losing what you have, when in reality, it gets you more.
samthejokerman 3 years ago 2
@samthejokerman
might be true but that person should always
be able to choose...
its called freedom dumb fuck.
learn about it.
slikkwon 1 year ago
Michael Moore is a commie savage. Why the hell would I want to pay my taxes for universal healthcare? It's bad enough as is, with the gov. deciding what to do. But everyone's answer is always the same...we need more regulation. This is why everything is messed up. The solution makes things worse...
xorezx 3 years ago
You think having to pay an arm and a leg for one finger is better?
frolegend 3 years ago 2
in the usa nothin is regulated
DEVRIMCI2007 3 years ago
That's completely untrue. Insurance companies work with the government. It's quasi-self-regulated. This is why everyone attacks "free enterprise." Because in America it's reulated indirectly by the government, through the companies. We do not have a free market...
xorezx 3 years ago
A central feature of the U.S. economy is a reliance on private decision-making ("economic freedom") in economic decision-making. This is enhanced by relatively low levels of regulation, taxation, and government involvement, as well as a court system that generally protects property rights and enforces contracts.-WIKIPEDIA
DEVRIMCI2007 3 years ago
That sounds beautiful, but that doesn't exist in actuality: low levels of regulation, taxation, etc. The Fed's involvement in our "economic freedom" is the reason why the dollar's burning down... I mean can you tell me that paying income tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, this and that tax is an indication that the government has a hands off economic policy in America? A(nd btw, do you think that Wikipedia, too, isn't regulated, especially in regards to government topics?
xorezx 3 years ago
u may not want regulation or any form like that,but people in europe dont support laissez faire laws, we want mixed economy, i m socialist by the way, i belive in public porperty not in private property.
DEVRIMCI2007 3 years ago
How can you speak on behalf of ALL the people of Europe? You're mode of thinking is collectivist and communist; those idealologies lead to fascism. The EU is already on its way, imo, to a communized government; thankfully there was opposition by the French (against the Constitution) and then the Irish (against the Lisbon treaty). And not everyone is happy in Eur. with social healthcare. My uncle, in Ireland, had to wait a month for heart surgery. In the US, one can usually get surgery asap.
xorezx 3 years ago
haha. u ppl r scared the neo-cons in america r scared ,in europe PEOPLE fourght4 there social rights thats y we have mixed economy, and high lving standards then the USA , we r more stable then USA.and people where aginst the treaty because it didnt have the will of the majority, people in EU are neo-liberalist at the moment,treaty doesnt reflect the people and bigger countries have more power in the EU.
DEVRIMCI2007 3 years ago
Oh, you're coming off as a blowhard and a braggart. Don't forget who was the first country to cut itself from Europe, since Europe was too busy getting itself in wars and blowing itself up every second. And why? Because people in America didn't want the government butting into their business, through high taxes, etc. Your understanding of history is reflected by your grammar: it's poor. Even the Chinese write better English than you...
xorezx 3 years ago
Well, it wasn't so much high taxes as it was taxation from England without representation in parliament for the colonists.
DeadBirdCitizen 3 years ago 2
MM,
I was shocked to watch you and Keith Olberman laughing and joking about the hurricane bearing down on the gulf coast.
Very disturbing.
bnaguy 3 years ago
Mike, I'm a Grunt 26 years worth of ground pounding and a family line I can trace back to the Civil War. I'll tell you something, you're right. You hit the nail square on the head with just about everything you have written. I'm mad as hell I have PTSD and a failed marriage because of the things I did and saw. We are being dumbed down in our schools. We are killing Millions of people since the end of WWII for the 1% with the money. Educate us on the power elite so we can hold them accountable
rhenry501 3 years ago
Loved your movie,"An American Carol" please make more of these
provwmn 3 years ago
united were not divided we have allways been we need a government of more down to earth people
FightForChangeNow 3 years ago
The poor and those of the middle class who empathise with them are demanding increasing levels of socialist reform in the U.S. but how plausible is it to implement universal health care in a country of such economic structure? I'm not an American, and I live in a country with universal health care and it works great for US, here, but I'm not totally convinced that the need of the have-nots doesn't greatly outweigh the resources of the have-somes.
ChrisStavros 3 years ago
You've got to stop hating and knocking Mike Moore. Can't you see that SOMEONE has got to take the initiative to care about others? Michael does that, he doesn't need to care about you but he does.
We all seek that 15 minutes of fame (that's why YOU are here). He's spending his 15 mins. here on youtube, on you, trying to remedy another shitty situation.
Chances are mr. Naysayer, that one (or more) of Michael's efforts have already benefited you and some closed ears have opened. Be thankful.
LongIslandEddie 3 years ago 2
Moore, my family and I love you. You care a lot about everyone, even when they hate you. I was touched when I heard you put up the money to help the wife of the guy who hated you... you're a Saint. You really are a Prophet.
But you do have to work out more. I want you to live for a very long time. :D
frolegend 4 years ago 6
@frolegend saint?-prophet? strong words i agree that he is kickass but thats a little much
kartrit 1 year ago
@frolegend
Michael Moore, a prophet? Go get your head examined.
Illumirage 5 months ago
"Anybody who likes michael moore is a complete fuckin retard. The guy doesnt even know what the fuck he is talking about. He doesn't ever come up with his own solutions he just brings everyone else's down. GOD I FUCKING HATE PUSSY ASS HIPPIE LIBERALS "
You're a moron. The very fact you knew how to find this means you know how to read, though... thank God you probably don't know how to reproduce though.
frolegend 4 years ago
You've been brainwashed into believing that Universal Healthcare is the devil. I pity you. Canada pities you.
frolegend 4 years ago
"everyone knows this guy is an idiot...people in canada have to wait years for some procedures "
You're the idiot. I live in Canada and the healthcare is so good you don't have to worry about anything. Sure, waiting sucks, but you know what? Better to wait WITHOUT BEING DRAINED OF YOUR INCOME, YOUR HOUSE, AND EVERYTHING YOU OWN. GOD. WAKE UP.
frolegend 4 years ago
One of my husband's coworkers aunt and uncle both died waiting for that wonderful health care in Canada. She was waiting for chemo and he was diabetic and got an infection. They had a two month waiting list to get in for help and ended up dying a week apart. The health care is wonderful as long as you are healthy
provwmn 3 years ago
"Demanding equality won't do jack shit, you have to show that you ARE equal. 90% the people "demanding equality" either either don't deserve it, or are demanding special treatment, and not equality. I'm hardly rich, but I'd do just fine supporting myself if I didn't have the government skimming my paycheck. "
EVERYONE deserves equality. No one is better than anyone else. What is this? Animal Farm? THESE ARE HUMAN LIVES. EACH ONE IS SACRED!
frolegend 4 years ago
You have no idea what you're saying, jarheadtoo. Mike took people who WORKED TO SAVE YOUR PATHETIC ASS on 9/11 to get healthcare because YOUR OWN DAMNED GOVERNMENT wouldn't help them. Wouldn't help 9/11 heroes.
Feeling patriotic now?
frolegend 4 years ago
""Universal health care is not a good thing. I agree that the government should play a bigger role as far as regulating what happens and making sure that people are not getting scammed, but 100% free health care would be disastrous. A free market is the best way to ensure better quality. ""
You have no idea what universal healthcare is. You've been lied to your entire life. I pity you. I pity America.
frolegend 4 years ago
"Universal healthcare is not free!!!!!!!!!!!!! You pay for it indirectly through taxes, and why should my tax dollars go to pay for some dumbass that smokes cigarettes, drinks, or eats mcdonalds everyday? "
Your tax is going to a military that kills people. It's going to a government that kills people by denying them healthcare.
You're not denying lazy people healthcare, you're denying human beings the right to live.
frolegend 4 years ago
Genius, we pay for the military so we can continue to enjoy the freedoms that the MILITARY gave us by winning past conflicts. I'm not real clear what world it is you think you live in, but not all people are good people here. In fact, most aren't. Getting something for nothing isn't right.
Nobody's denying human beings the right to live. Well, except those who are pro-choice. But I bet you'll come back with a liberal swing at how it's a choice then. Genius, Pure genius. Except, exact opposite.
jacobhall25 4 years ago
Univerted: You're a liar unless you prove it! :D
frolegend 4 years ago
"Let me get this straight, you want everybody to have the same thing whether they work hard or sit on their ass, sounds like communism not democracy or capitalism at least"
So if you see a poor family suffering and a rich family not suffering, you're fine with that? You're disgusting. You're not human.
frolegend 4 years ago
America has NO LESS QUALITY in their healthcare than anywhere else. You want to deny children dying of cancer because they have no money? YOU'RE the sick fuck, not Mike and NOT the people trying to tell you to get the hell out of your box and open your eyes, carRamRod04.
frolegend 4 years ago
As a Canadian, pongman, I have to tell you it is better to wait in a hospital in Canada than to be denied and bankrupted by slimey lying med-regulators in America.
frolegend 4 years ago
"Health Care costs the tax payers a bundle. "
As a Canadian who pays taxes and gets free healthcare, I can honestly tell you, it doesn't cost a lot at all. It's much less than what's being syphoned out of your wallet and into your precious American Military.
frolegend 4 years ago
jacobhall25, As a Canadian, I have to laugh my ass off at your comment about our government deciding when we get treated. I got hit by a car, taken to hospital, treated, AND released all in the same day. Can that happen in the US? Not without oodles of cash! I'm glad I'm Canadian.
frolegend 4 years ago
moore might wear his heart on his sleeve but at least you can see wear his true passions are .. more than could be said for your quick talking... TWO FACED LYING politicians
peterpetersnbg 4 years ago
This man's a moron.
Ron Paul hasn't accepted any congress money for his health care long, long before you made this video.
pantadon 4 years ago
I would assume that they are doing it for fundamentally defferent reasons though.
Brown because he wants everyone to get it, not just people in office.
Paul because he wants noone to have it.
GustafSjoblom 4 years ago
RON PAUL
Tertuel 4 years ago
MOORE FOR PRESIDENT '08
markee871 4 years ago 5
I would agree, but the president is just a puppet to the higher powers who control what he does.
frolegend 4 years ago
I don't think Moore would be a very good President, and I think he himself would agree.
And even if the Presidents power is limited it is still the most influential post a single person can have.
GustafSjoblom 4 years ago
I have sad news for this issue.
Universal health care in not possible until some serious tort law reforms. Doctors should be immune from lawsuits whenever their treatments provide the least harm to the patient.
Too often they save someones life, then get sued for stupid things like scars or 'emotional trauma'.( meanwhile the original cause of the injury is nowhere to be blamed)
I totally respect any politician who forgoes free treatment unless the public get the same.
Thats pure integrity.
Rhal95 4 years ago 3
...or leaving a clamp inside your abdomin, or cutting off the wrong leg...ooops, or killing 100,000 per year with PROPERLY prescribed medication, or being a tool of the Pharma industry and basically learning how to push pills instead of health.
Or how the AMA lobbied to get cancer treatment defined as ONLY chemo, surgury or radiation with all 'alternatives' labelled as illegal. The AMA is a racket...
nanderson65 4 years ago
Excellent points nanterson65. But note; I did say 'whenever their treatments provide LEAST harm'.
Heh, the AMA calling alternatives 'illegal' is a sure sign of corruption. Where the heck do they think medicine started????
Rhal95 4 years ago
If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest.
Thomas Jefferson
The United States Empire (troops around the world)
Japan 33,453
Germany 70,000
South Korea 24,500
Kuwait 49,100
Iraq 156,300
Total number of US troops around the world 387,400 in 120 countries
Bring all of them home. Vote for Ron Paul 2008!
rpforliberty2008 4 years ago 3
Ron Paul political sheep....
mikeland 4 years ago
You are 20.
Go buy a book on Barry Goldwater, Robert Taft, and Austrian Economics. Read them, pay taxes for a decade and come back and insult me when you have a clue.
rpforliberty2008 4 years ago
Paul will be our next President in 2008, he's already raised more than any other candidate in the GOP. He's unstoppable. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - GHANDI
politicsjunkie507 4 years ago
what does this have to do with healthcare, at all?
heysaturdaysun 4 years ago
lol are you retarded?
dollar0613 4 years ago
Here's a challenge. Have Michael Moore lose two pounds.
AirCargoHeavy 4 years ago
I disagree w/ Mike on this one, and I like Michael Moore--he's funny and has a lot of attitude. Still, I think a better solution would be to enforce tighter regulations on corporations which require better health benefits for their employees. It's true there would be alot of part-timers laid off, but keep in mind these people often have 2 or 3 PT jobs w/ no benefits. Instead, they'd have 1 job with full health benefits. I don't want to pay for someone who isn't working though.
djtrixen 4 years ago 2
Its not gonna happen anytime soon as much as we need it. The
hurdle is the Iraq War we need to end soon... Senator Joe Biden is the only one with a plan..... lets face reality
Biden 08
Toxik03 4 years ago
Biden's plan is to talk tough and then vote with his corporate bosses once again. I can't tell you what a disappointment he has been over the years.
His plan is to do as he is Bidden by his masters.
I'm with Dennis Kucinich who actually has plans written and on the floor ready to go NOW!
Not 'when' he gets elected...like all the others.
nanderson65 4 years ago
Should a 500 lb man advise us on the evils of over-consumption? Should the resident of a million-dollar apartment claim to be a poster boy of the working class? Should a person who thought that Enron was a great investment, that Ralph Nader, Wesley Clark and John Kerry would win, and that North Korea's Kim Jong was changing for the better, advise us on anything?
octobernight77 4 years ago
octobernight77--the answer to your question is YES
dancinmemoryz 4 years ago
octobernight77 answer to your question is YES
dancinmemoryz 4 years ago
It's not the responsiblity of the government to provide for every need of a person. As a christian myself I think the church needs to step up and help people who CAN'T help themselves not people who don't want to help themselves.
boss42971 4 years ago
boss42971, the govt. "provides" for some and does not "provide" for others every time it writes a law (determines who goes to jail and who doesn't or think of copyright legislation) or everytime it changes its tax policy (decides who gets to keep their money how much and who has pay and how much). You have no explanation of why the govt should not, in particular, provide for people's health care.
dharmamarx 4 years ago
The FairTax would take care of the vote buying system with the current tax system. Also, where is the money for socialized healthcare going to come from? From your paycheck through MORE taxes.
boss42971 4 years ago
Like our health care doesn't come out of our paychecks now? Difference is with a single payer system the amount is less. If you want to spend more so that the CEO of United Health can make a billion in profits, be my guest. Just send him a check.
sinistar99 4 years ago
I don't disagree health care is a mess. I just disagree that putting another system more so within the control of the government is the solution. In fact I believe that is one of the problems with health care. I personally don't have anything to do with traditional health care.
specialcange 4 years ago
Thank you Michael Moore for using your power to help the working class and poor families of America. You are a true patriot hero and a great role model for our children.
LiberalAchi 4 years ago
Furious.
venniey 4 years ago
Furiously fat, furiously hypocritical, and furiously rich. Hey, why don't you libs go after HIS wealth. Or John Kerry's. Or Ted Kennedy's. Or etc.
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netBorbeDrugs 4 years ago
google Bush Body Count or Bush Lies or a million other things. Or just use common sense and add up the number of Americans killed by terrorists when Clinton was president vs the number killed when Bush was and see who's better at security. Who just "accidentally" sold f-14 fighter parts to Iran? Clinton? Guess again...
sinistar99 4 years ago
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Ron Paul for President!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2008
sparklytoez 4 years ago
lb11rb and bechyhmn said it all. Moore is a retard.
steelstring08 4 years ago
They said it all wrong. But name calling is the resort of someone with no facts to back up his position.
sinistar99 4 years ago
I'm just curious as to what makes America so great. This is supposed to be the best country, but it only seems that way for the wealthy. What makes america so much better than Canada? or Germany? or any other developed nation.
Cigma7 4 years ago
What makes America great is the opportunity to do better. I hate to break it to you but many rich people have done it themselves, as well as upper middle class. Our standard of living is better than any major country in the world. We allow people like you to write on the internet.
lb11rb 4 years ago
Every major industrialized country allows that. England allows you to write on the internet too. Gosh but wait they have (ghasp) socialized health insurance! I guess no one there has any incentive to work or opportunity to succeed.
sinistar99 4 years ago
English health care is shit. Just read the British Medical Journal online. They talk about a lack of medical facilities and fears of future hospital closings. Their Medical Research Council is being torn a new one for their poor practice. How many ground breaking drugs have come out of England in the last 10 years?
bulldogvillan 4 years ago
So let's have a serious conversation about how we can get universal healthcare in a way that avoids England's problems; their problems are all well documented so they should be easy to avoid. And let's have a conversation about better ways to fund drug research; economists all argue we should spend more on research and development. Oh wait, we can't have those conversations b/c Republicans aren't serious about those problems.
dharmamarx 4 years ago
Just read American medical Journals. Tell me how health care is better here for the 45 million Americans who have no health coverage? And actually quite a few ground breaking drugs have come out of England Tell me all the ones coming out of the US?
sinistar99 4 years ago
tell me all that comes outta england? I can say the same thing... actually quite a few ground breaking drugs have come out of the US.
shadfurman 4 years ago
No, they don't have very much at all.
lb11rb 4 years ago
What is your source for this? Have you seen any comparative studies? It sounds like most of what you are saying about other countries comes from blind patriotism and bigotry --not facts. I know that the life expectancy is longer and the infant mortality rate is lower in France than the US. So that right there isn't "better" here.
sinistar99 4 years ago
Perhaps not, but standard of living and all statistics economical are certainly better.
lb11rb 4 years ago
Only 25 counntries on the world have higher infant mortality rates that here in the U.S.A. From a UN W.H.O. study.
venniey 4 years ago
So over-paying for our health care or not being covered at all gives us more opportunities? I take back what I said, our education system is screwed up if it produces that kind of thinking.
sinistar99 4 years ago
Free heathcare for all? The rich would just be moved to the front of the line as they slipped extra money to the Doctors. So the poor would be way way down at the bottom and would die before getting the medical treatment they needed. You are such an idiot Michael.
beckyhmn 4 years ago
No the rich and like anyone else to opt out. You can pay 6,000 a year or more if you want to--but a single payer plan would save money and you could never be cancelled from the insurance compaines.
pbilger 4 years ago
micheal moore is a dirty commie
jsdelec 4 years ago
why dont you go for president?
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monuscriptAgo 4 years ago
can u do a doc on the illuminati : P
unfcknblvble 4 years ago
Notice how when we talk about the federal budget we ignore unfunded "liabilities" like SS and Medicare/Medicaid. I put liabilities in quotes, because the federal government isn't actually contractually obligated to pay us anything, but if they don't pay up there will be great dissent from the public that could easily spark something as dramatic as a revolution of some sort.
Federal Budget accounting is only out done in shadiness by the UN and the EU.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
Ah but Enron, Texico, Halliburton, and the Savings and Loan Industry are all out in the open about everything. it is not "contractually obligated," it is required by federal law. And who enforces the contracts of private companies anyhow? would that be ... Oh no! the government! Eeek!
sinistar99 4 years ago
And to point out how spending on overhead can and does add value...
Lets start a lobby to reduce all the wasteful overhead banks spend. I want to start with all the money they waste on security and armored vehicles to transfer cash around. Just let Joe employee throw plastic bags of it in the trunk of their car and transport it where it needs to go.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
But then more money would get stolen which would add to shrinkage which would increase overhead. You still want the system with the least overhead. Period. Your point seems to be that spending more = spending less. Kind of an Orwellian "war is peace" thing. If the cost of security exceeds the amount that would be stolen then you would want to go ahead and allow the stealing to the degree that the system is most efficient.
sinistar99 4 years ago
So what proof then do you have the MB = MC at the level of overhead spent by the federal government on Medicare?
What if MB > MC, at the point where Medicare is. Then the government is not spending enough on overhead to be efficient.
Of course the government has the incentive to minimize the costs that get reported to the public(regardless of MB and MC), while sweeping under the rug any fraud that might be occurring.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
And a CEO has no incentive to cover up fraud? There is rampant fraud and malfeasance in the private sector. No one here is pro-fraud, so let's eliminate that from the equation please. Government numbers are by law open to public scrutiny to at least the same degree that corporate numbers are. You show me the medicare employee who's taking home over a billion dollars this year and why giving someone a billion dollars is the most efficient use of my health care premiums.
sinistar99 4 years ago
If someone can demand a billion dollars in the private sector it probably means he is the very good at what he does. Here are examples of why I am honestly afraid of government programs: public school system, social security,
lb11rb 4 years ago
those are pretty screwed up!
lb11rb 4 years ago
Social security is what got us out of the Great Depression and most of us are products of the public school system and do just fine, thank you. Go to a country without all these evil government programs and tell me how great it is to live there.
sinistar99 4 years ago
Are trying to tell me that social security isn't in a mess and that public schools are okay? Oh, social security did not get us out of the great depresson. Your public school education is obviously not up to speed and your government has put you at a serious disadvantage.
lb11rb 4 years ago
*Are you trying* excuse me
lb11rb 4 years ago
Yes it did. Along with the rest of the New Deal programs that wingnuts today would call "communist." Sounds like maybe YOUR education was messed up, but that's not because of the system. Go live in a country that doesn't have a government social safety net and tell me how great it is. Right wing talking points are no substitute for facts. Look em up.
sinistar99 4 years ago
Very good at rigging the system with million-dollar lobbyists and paid-for lawmakers like Bill Frist and Tom Delay. Good at gouging the public and conning people into thinking that there is some moral value to paying too much for health care and denying people benefits.
sinistar99 4 years ago
No, it did not pull us out of the depression. I've looked at enough statistical data and read enough material to come to a good conclusion that they had hardly anything to do with it. The programs kept people in inner cities from starving, but they had hardly anything to do with jumpstarting the economy.
lb11rb 4 years ago
See dear you know nothing about it. It was the war that got us out of the depression. The Programs did in fact help most of the old Americans--but for what I get from you--you would rather the old people just lay down and die. What good are they right. All other people should move out of your way. Gees--I do believe the Rep's have lost their way from God.
pbilger 4 years ago
It is a family's responsibility to take care of their elders, as stated in the Bible. It is not the responsibility of the government.
lb11rb 4 years ago
No it isn't the families responsibility--I won't take away my 80 year old's monther dignity (have you ever heard of that word). She paid into the system and she will keep her dignity.
pbilger 4 years ago
In the bible it says that it is the family's responsibility. If your mom paid into the system she should get her money back, but we have to stop this. If your mom had invested the money she was forced to put in the gov't system she would be much better off.
lb11rb 4 years ago
I don't care how to read the bible-you are a Conservative that has left the teachings of Jesus. What you have to say doesn't matter to me. All you are fighting for is more money. You don't fight for the lives or souls of people.
pbilger 4 years ago
What is wrong with Singapore's system?
carRamRod04 4 years ago
U.S. Healthcare Reform: The American health care system is in a crisis and has reached a critical point across the nation. The United States is the ONLY major industrialized nation in the world that has a privatized for-profit health care system that benefits only a few. Please go visit my website 'The Biggest Michael Moore Fansite' geocities dot com/moorefans
moorefans 4 years ago
the US is the only industrialized nation in the world with a privitezed health care system, the US is also the best coundtry in the world.
lb11rb 4 years ago
I think universal health care would be really practical, and totally affordable for a our government. oh, but we would have to stop wasting all of our tax money on war. of course. which is more important:: healing or killing?
Lukejcarter 4 years ago
you idiot there is as much money being spent on global warming research. you're talking a few billion dollars out of a multi trillion dollar budget
lb11rb 4 years ago
TODAY'S HIGHLIGHTS
Bush Aide Blocked Report
A surgeon general's report in 2006 that called on Americans to help tackle global health problems has been kept from the public by a Bush political appointee without any background or expertise in medicine or public health, chiefly because the report did not promote the administration's policy...
(By Christopher Lee and Marc Kaufman, The Washington Post)
KamikazeKoscki 4 years ago
YEAH BABY!! I love this guy!!
BlueTunisia 4 years ago
shadfurman: Let me try to understand, you believe that other major industralized nations (allies of the US like England) who have UHC for all British citizens are communists? That kind of logic is unbelievable not to mention completely insane.
moorefans 4 years ago
Please try to understand the British are also captialists & people in England have to go to work to pay the bills. Except there's a big difference, there are NO medical bills/bankruptcy that exists. They will NEVER lose their home, their live savings, everything they EVER worked for in their entire lives to a for-profit medical system. Just watch Moore's film 'Sicko' & make YOUR OWN judgement.
moorefans 4 years ago
And people are saying the 1% overhead for medicare is misleading... fine maybe it's so misleading it's five times as much it's still not 30%.
The difference is this: When a medicare employee pockets some extral money, that's called fraud and that person is liable to be investigated and prosecuted. When an HMO exec pockets extra money that's called profit, and it's hunky-dory. If you are against fraud and waste, then the current system completely backwards.
sinistar99 4 years ago
The Sicilian Mafia: The Business of Private Protection (Diego Gambetta).
Check it out. It is a real insightful read.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
If you actually read the paper I referenced a day ago or so you'd realize that they estimate an apples to apples comparison of Medicare at about 5% overhead and the private sector at 8-10%.
You sound very confident in your 30% overhead for a private insurer.
Would you please cite 1 publicly traded health insurance company that has a 30% overhead.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
Your a worthless piece of shit! you know that right? do the world a favor and kill yourself!
j11235813 4 years ago
j11235813--Don't talk about yourself like that!! I am sure you have something to offer the world-you sound so sweet........
dancinmemoryz 4 years ago
31.5% is the overall cost of overhead for US private health care consumer companies according to the New England Journal of Medicine 2006 study. If you look at United Health gross profit margin it's about 24% --8-10% would make sense if you didn't count shareholder dividends. Remember in the private world, net profits aren't considered "overhead." That billion the United CEO got last year as a bonus came from somewhere.
sinistar99 4 years ago
Overhead is a red herring. Which would be better: A private system that spends a total of $1B which happens to include 12% overhead, or a public system with rampant fraud and abuse that pays out $1.1B, which includes 6% overhead? "Overhead" is meaningless: the public system wasted $100M.
Part of "overhead" is spent to prevent fraud and abuse, so the higher the overhead, the lower total benefits paid. The implication is that lower overhead means greater efficiency, but that's simply not true.
gsimonsays 4 years ago
So there's no fraud at all ever in the private system. "The implication is that lower overhead means greater efficiency, but that's simply not true." So what you're saying is paying more money for less health care benefits is more efficient? Wow, gee I never thought of it that way. Maybe because I'm not insane.
sinistar99 4 years ago
carRamRod04: Sorry I disagree, the gov't didn't create HMO's. The Gov't passed laws & allowed them to exist in the place. In most other major industralized nations (i.e. England), the current U.S. healthcare system would be considered cruel, illegal and immoral to deny so many citizen THEIR right to have healthcare access. Your taxes are paying for the pharma's research for new drugs and stuff but the for-profit U.S. healthcare system doesn't cover everyone & bankrupts people.
moorefans 4 years ago
In U.S. the mentality is that health insurance should be considered to be a commodity rather than a basic human right. The American people have been told for decades from the for-profit medical establishment that the U.S. government is NOT responsible for providing every American citizen and legal resident the ability to access to free UHC for life.
moorefans 4 years ago
what about food and water, people can't live without those, couldn't you consider that a basic human right. We still pay for those as commodities.
shadfurman 4 years ago
I understand what you're saying, however when it comes to issues such as access to high quality health care for all American citizens it becomes a life or death issue. Moore is right, its time to reform health care in America. The US Gov't needs to do it's job, bring an American National Health Care Service. Get rid of HMO's! Once and for all!
moorefans 4 years ago
Why doesn't the government do it's job and bring us food to our doors and make sure we all have new clothes and are regularly entertained while they are at it. Cause we are all too stupid to see something we should avoid and find (or create) a better solution. We are all fat and so the government should do everything for us. Oh wait... we ARE the government...
shadfurman 4 years ago
The government enforces property laws, and in doing so, it protects the interests of the rich (who are never really "self-made"). And no, "we" are not the government. Last time I checked my government worked for really rich people who made really big campaign donations. Look it up.
dharmamarx 4 years ago
I know exactly what you are referring too and from your statement you seem to be just the personality Micheal Moore caters too. There are PLENTY of "self-made" VERY rich people, I've met many and spent my life studying them. We are the government, lobbyists are only given power to do what they do by our own apathy. We can't go around being jealous of rich or powerful, we have MORE opportunity here than in any other country.
shadfurman 4 years ago
Once again. Private police, roads, infrastructure etc don't make sense and universal government run food doesn't make sense. Universal health care does. So let's stop the apple vs oranges stuff.
sinistar99 4 years ago
Yes I agree, but sometimes analogy examples between apples and oranges are beneficial cause rarely are too things exactly the same. I don't agree that universal heath care makes sense. If you have a case for it make it. Health care as it stands is broken, or at least severely damaged. But turning it over to the government won't make it better, government is prone to the same corruptions as private companies.
shadfurman 4 years ago
That is true, but in this case the differences are very important. They're not suggesting that the government run "health care" as in government clinics --the way a government run grocery store would be --but government run health insurance. Nobody needs "food insurance."
sinistar99 4 years ago
Health insurance is nothing more than prepayment on expected future benefits. If universal health insurance is so important, certainly universal food stamps must be higher up on the priority list.
And then you have to consider the problem of, how are we going to determine individual premiums?
I take it you want to base health insurance premiums on income(which is not correlated to expected benefits).
But if you take such a stance, shouldn't you also lobby for food prices based on income?
carRamRod04 4 years ago
Does anyone need food insurance? How many chapter 11s are filed because of individual food bills? Ever get a catastrophic food emergency you couldn't cover? And government assistance with food is already income based --so stop comparing completely different things, or I'll have to ask you again why you don't want private companies don't run our police departments.
sinistar99 4 years ago
I'd take competing mafias over a state run police any day.
How many poor people do you know that can afford to eat a healthy balanced diet?
Grain is the most heavily subsidized agri product in the country and subsequently the poor in general eat high carb unhealthy diets.
If you really believe in government as a provider, it would spend tax dollars much more efficiently in getting the poor on healthier diets and being preventative rather than reactionary and throwing it into health care.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
Actually WIC and other state and federal programs promote a very healthy diet --and often require and provide periodic exams for children to make sure they are getting the nutrition they need. Besides do you think that maybe they would eat better if there was no government help for them? Go to a country without these programs and tell me why it's better to live there.
sinistar99 4 years ago
"I'd take competing mafias over a state run police any day." LOL. Now you're just being crazy. Russia has pretty much that system now, go check it out. Fughetaboutit.
sinistar99 4 years ago
The governments only "job" is to "GOVERN" people. (I'd throw in militia and roadway infrastructure in there too) The government is not a provider. OUR job is to provide things for ourselves.
shadfurman 4 years ago
shadfurman, you, of course, have no argument to support the idea that the "government's only 'job' it to 'govern'"; that's a moral argument; I would to see what premises it rests on. Your claim about how we must "provide things for ourselves" is, of course, also a fiction as people never entirely provide for themselves. There's this thing called history: we are products of it.
dharmamarx 4 years ago
Well then why don't you just go all the way and say that we should be communist and have the government provide everything. We are not "products" of history, we are only products of our own decisions. And in any debate the terms reduced to their least common denominators are ALWAYS moral arguments.
shadfurman 4 years ago
Yes they do always come down to "moral arguments"; the point is that you have no defense for your libertarian moral argument. The US is a highly socialist country; it's been one since at least the New Deal; in some respects it should be more of one. Your comment about history does not even pass the laugh test; how did you get to even be in the US? You chose to be born in the US?
dharmamarx 4 years ago
Well I don't appreciate at all derogatory comments as such as you've made. You say I don't have a defense for my arguments, but then you only choose to insult me instead of present your own. Yes, the country is becoming socialist, and our forefathers foresaw and warned against it. We need to fix it.
shadfurman 4 years ago
dharmamarx: Try reading Mises, Rothbard and Hayek.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
We are only products of our own decisions? OK I decide to inherit a million dollars. Where is it? What wrong decision did those 11 million children with no health coverage make? Those of us lucky enough to live comfortably are standing on the shoulders of people who stood on the shoulders of people. No one does it alone.
sinistar99 4 years ago
"We are only products of our own decisions?"
Of course not. A vast majority of our life is a result of factors outside of our control. But if we strive for equal protection under the law(see 14th Amendment), one would rightly conclude that since everyone is not born into equal conditions and the government is required to treat us equally, then outcomes will be unequal.
carRamRod04 4 years ago
yet everyone is respnsible for their own actions. This country is about the "pursuit of happines", not the gov't guarentee of it.
lb11rb 4 years ago
We're not talking about guaranteed happiness, just guaranteed basic rights. How can one pursue happiness at all when their basic needs for survival aren't covered? You were probably born with health coverage of some kind from your parents. What decision did you make for that to happen? What wrong decision did the 11 million children in this country who aren't covered make?
sinistar99 4 years ago
This country is FOR THE PEOPLE AND BY THE PEOPLE and just for the few.
pbilger 4 years ago
so you're saying that if people screw up it isn't there fault. If that's the case where is the incentive to work hard and suceed if you must share it with people like you who sit around and feel sorry for yourselves.
lb11rb 4 years ago
how can you say that we shouldn't help people in our own country. the incentive is so that when you need help and you are in a time of hardship yourself, you are not denied help on the basis that "it's your fault".
Buzztootight1990 4 years ago
I'm not saying you shouldn't help people. I believe community service and food drives are a great thing and participate in them. However, I believe that it is not the responsibility of the government.
lb11rb 4 years ago
You're 18 years old. HA! What do you know about the world yet???? Absolutely nothing of substance. First, do some reading about the history of America at the turn of the century from the 1800s to 1900s and tell me how good it was to leave the government out of corporate affairs.
frenchdel 4 years ago
Second, to state that 'it's not your fault' is a ridiculous notion must clearly indicate that you are white. Do you realize how lucky you aand I are just to be white in this country? Some people don't get the same advantages as we do and need government help, yes. Some weren't lucky enough to be born into a
frenchdel 4 years ago
neighborhood where their school actually taught them things. They may now only be able to find a job where insurance coverage isn't offered to their employees. So according to you, they aren't worth it to be healthy and get care when necessary.
frenchdel 4 years ago