Nicely done, bro. So often the biochemical aspect of addiction is left out of the conversation. People usually try to pin it down to the moral fortitude of the user. I wonder if we taught this in schools some might recognize that the drugs and the addiction to them will eventually take over the steering wheel, and then choice is just an illusion.
I think it's great you're talking on YT about this. Don't take any guff from these swine!
Thanks for the vote of confidence :) Been avoiding the issue a little bit for a while now.
I hope that explaining how addiction really exists will open at least someone's eyes. Because we can't imagine really not being able to just choose to not use some drug we think addiction can't happen to us.
Precisely what were you addicted to before? Knowing that could help qualify or disqualify the information in this video.
I agreed with only a small portion of your statements, but disagree with most. Regardless however, who may be right, should I even bother disputing anything, it is important to understand this...
All the science in the world will not help or make a difference out here in the trenches. Science can be talked about among folks who have never had the pleasure of... (contd.)
...attempting to secure their next fix, living with the fear that their body will get so sick that they literally would rather be dead, but it those scientists can debate all day how to help the problem and wouldn't put a dent in it. There are harsh realities out in these trenches that require an understanding well beyond a text book, and a tolerance that goes well beyond what society has been conditioned to handle as reality.
Although I do applaud your efforts and good intentions (even though BE might call it being passive aggresive,) I can't hold a ton of credibility to it unless you tell me that you've experienced a full blown addiction to opiate based drugs. I can't speak for cocaine and meth addicts, but I bet it's equally as treacherous.
By the way, I do not consider the following to anywhere closely match the physical addiction attributes of the three main drugs I spoke of. In fact these substances would more closely fit what you were talking about in the video...
I spent several years as a homeless meth addict. I used crack and heroin too but they never really captivated me in the same way and since I was a dealer I figured I'd stick with the habit I could support. I've detoxed in jail a handful of times and I've detoxed without bars between me and my desires.
I've also spent years discussing my addiction with other recovering meth addicts. I've studied it because it's personal. Been clean about 4 years now. Finally off probation last year ;)
I can go into more detail here really. Like I said when I made the video I went very surface here without some of the deeper results of these arguments being articulated. Half my point is that quitting is not as easy as deciding to and that our choices are reflections of the way we've programmed our desires.
I'll make a part two if you're interested to hear what I have to say. I'll make a part 2 anyway but what it's focus is depends on what people are interested in hearing.
This is precisely why I support legalization. We both pretty much agree that desire will not subside, so the next logical thing to solve is access. If we solve the problem of access, then these people don't have to throw their entire lives away to stay well, and they would never risk detoxing in a jail cell.
Legalization is an *incredibly* complicated issue. I support it..mostly because it would mean there wouldn't be the kind of bloodbath we're seeing south of the border in fighting between cartels.
I absolutely support rehabilitation and treatment over incarceration but I still have a hard time with truly legal hard drugs. Cops are fucked up enough without also being spun out on meth and awake a week at a time. Tough subject, at least for the stimulants. Opiates I'm less personally familiar with.
Interesting fact about opiates, they are not actually that bad for you. In fact, the only reason they're deemed so dangerous is for the addictive qualities. Dr. Dean Edel, a local guy who's been in TV and radio for most of his career and someone I trust, even said that if he had to be an addict to anything, it would be heroin, because under manageable conditions (meaning don't go and OD) you'd still live a lengthy life. You'd actually make gains in the stress relief alone.
Also, if someone said to me, "Hey, we'll make you a deal. All drugs except for one can be legalized and you get to choose which." I'd choose meth for sure. Reasoning for this is the danger to innocent people who come in contact with the user, who is typically paranoid and liable to hurt someone.
Even under my legalization platform however, there would remain stiff penalties for "fucking up," meaning, smoking meth before your shift as a BART operator or something of that nature.
Whatever else the case may be.. I know opiate withdrawals are a lot worse than meth. I've watched a lot of people do that locked up and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
getting clean is hell, but even once you're not sick anymore there's the addiction to deal with. Detoxing is a first step, not a cure.
Yah, that's a really common claim. I heard it a lot myself and only learned otherwise when I ran across a study discussing it's connection to desire which fits well with dopamine re-uptake inhibitors being used as anti-depressants for people who feel like nothing is worth doing (deadened motivation).
It seems like the consensus now is it's more related to desire than just pleasure.
I appreciate it that you really think and you also know a lot. It logically follows from what you know and from drawing the right conclusions, that there is no other agencies that drives the actions of our bodies, our goals and desires than our brain. failing to apreciate that has given rise to such notions like a soul.
I know that the molecule of nicotine can bind itself to a specific receiver cell (or is it synapse, I don't know the terms), that is there for another purpose.
Nicely done, bro. So often the biochemical aspect of addiction is left out of the conversation. People usually try to pin it down to the moral fortitude of the user. I wonder if we taught this in schools some might recognize that the drugs and the addiction to them will eventually take over the steering wheel, and then choice is just an illusion.
I think it's great you're talking on YT about this. Don't take any guff from these swine!
hunkamonkiman 2 years ago
Thanks for the vote of confidence :) Been avoiding the issue a little bit for a while now.
I hope that explaining how addiction really exists will open at least someone's eyes. Because we can't imagine really not being able to just choose to not use some drug we think addiction can't happen to us.
Spacemonkey2084 2 years ago
Precisely what were you addicted to before? Knowing that could help qualify or disqualify the information in this video.
I agreed with only a small portion of your statements, but disagree with most. Regardless however, who may be right, should I even bother disputing anything, it is important to understand this...
All the science in the world will not help or make a difference out here in the trenches. Science can be talked about among folks who have never had the pleasure of... (contd.)
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
...attempting to secure their next fix, living with the fear that their body will get so sick that they literally would rather be dead, but it those scientists can debate all day how to help the problem and wouldn't put a dent in it. There are harsh realities out in these trenches that require an understanding well beyond a text book, and a tolerance that goes well beyond what society has been conditioned to handle as reality.
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
Although I do applaud your efforts and good intentions (even though BE might call it being passive aggresive,) I can't hold a ton of credibility to it unless you tell me that you've experienced a full blown addiction to opiate based drugs. I can't speak for cocaine and meth addicts, but I bet it's equally as treacherous.
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
By the way, I do not consider the following to anywhere closely match the physical addiction attributes of the three main drugs I spoke of. In fact these substances would more closely fit what you were talking about in the video...
Alcohol, nicotine, marijuana, MDMA, LSD, mushrooms, DXM, Piperazine, benzodiazepines, xanax and muscle relaxers.
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
I spent several years as a homeless meth addict. I used crack and heroin too but they never really captivated me in the same way and since I was a dealer I figured I'd stick with the habit I could support. I've detoxed in jail a handful of times and I've detoxed without bars between me and my desires.
I've also spent years discussing my addiction with other recovering meth addicts. I've studied it because it's personal. Been clean about 4 years now. Finally off probation last year ;)
Spacemonkey2084 2 years ago
I can go into more detail here really. Like I said when I made the video I went very surface here without some of the deeper results of these arguments being articulated. Half my point is that quitting is not as easy as deciding to and that our choices are reflections of the way we've programmed our desires.
I'll make a part two if you're interested to hear what I have to say. I'll make a part 2 anyway but what it's focus is depends on what people are interested in hearing.
Spacemonkey2084 2 years ago
This is precisely why I support legalization. We both pretty much agree that desire will not subside, so the next logical thing to solve is access. If we solve the problem of access, then these people don't have to throw their entire lives away to stay well, and they would never risk detoxing in a jail cell.
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
Legalization is an *incredibly* complicated issue. I support it..mostly because it would mean there wouldn't be the kind of bloodbath we're seeing south of the border in fighting between cartels.
I absolutely support rehabilitation and treatment over incarceration but I still have a hard time with truly legal hard drugs. Cops are fucked up enough without also being spun out on meth and awake a week at a time. Tough subject, at least for the stimulants. Opiates I'm less personally familiar with.
Spacemonkey2084 2 years ago
Interesting fact about opiates, they are not actually that bad for you. In fact, the only reason they're deemed so dangerous is for the addictive qualities. Dr. Dean Edel, a local guy who's been in TV and radio for most of his career and someone I trust, even said that if he had to be an addict to anything, it would be heroin, because under manageable conditions (meaning don't go and OD) you'd still live a lengthy life. You'd actually make gains in the stress relief alone.
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
Also, if someone said to me, "Hey, we'll make you a deal. All drugs except for one can be legalized and you get to choose which." I'd choose meth for sure. Reasoning for this is the danger to innocent people who come in contact with the user, who is typically paranoid and liable to hurt someone.
Even under my legalization platform however, there would remain stiff penalties for "fucking up," meaning, smoking meth before your shift as a BART operator or something of that nature.
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
I can only imagine that detoxing in a cell must be worse than death. Congrats on 4 years!
BayAreaLen 2 years ago
Whatever else the case may be.. I know opiate withdrawals are a lot worse than meth. I've watched a lot of people do that locked up and wouldn't wish it on anyone.
getting clean is hell, but even once you're not sick anymore there's the addiction to deal with. Detoxing is a first step, not a cure.
Spacemonkey2084 2 years ago
Thank you for the studies, because I was taught dopamine was pleasure not motivation and desire.
knifesson 2 years ago
Yah, that's a really common claim. I heard it a lot myself and only learned otherwise when I ran across a study discussing it's connection to desire which fits well with dopamine re-uptake inhibitors being used as anti-depressants for people who feel like nothing is worth doing (deadened motivation).
It seems like the consensus now is it's more related to desire than just pleasure.
Spacemonkey2084 2 years ago
I 'beat" an addiction to nicotine... though I still always have the desire for a cigarette, even all these years later.
I have an addiction to exercise right now, but it's mostly because of my obsession with my weight.
I know I'm a fucked up mess... but aren't most of us in some way :) LOL
tattooskin72 2 years ago
I appreciate it that you really think and you also know a lot. It logically follows from what you know and from drawing the right conclusions, that there is no other agencies that drives the actions of our bodies, our goals and desires than our brain. failing to apreciate that has given rise to such notions like a soul.
I know that the molecule of nicotine can bind itself to a specific receiver cell (or is it synapse, I don't know the terms), that is there for another purpose.
dewonthegrass 2 years ago