why dont you talk to dr zair naik about this? LMAO becuase you know he will destroy you and you arnt worthy of that great mans time. and honestly you are a fucking ididot, your reading the quran wrong you dumb hindu fuck. before you slander our religion look at yours which believes in cows as a god estagfurallah
@Tsonga88 how the fuck is the black stone our god? are you a fucking idiot? stop talking shit when you dont know shit about islam. your a fucknig joke and a pathetic cunt
@CiMBoMTurkiye93 black stone only symbolises islamic god. And just like the black stone, the allah also is dead and cold. Muhammad was a liar and con artist who said many stupid things such as that fetus in the womb develops bones first and flesh after, or that the earth is flat and one of 7 earths who are departed 500 years from each other, and many many other stupid things the exposes him as a satan's puppet, which is why Muhammad is in hell right now.
@aClockworkBoec how the fuck is the black stone our god? keep talking ignorant christians it shows me you guys dont know anything and are lying, i though jesus said dont lie? your a bad christian. also in the quran it says the world is spherical so here you are lying again, however it was in the bible that the earth was flat, how stupid do you feel now? LMAOOOO dont try and debate me moron i will own you 10 times out of 10, so please shut the fuck up and get the fuck out. PWNDDDD!!!
@CiMBoMTurkiye93 I thought muhammadans aren't supposed to curse? I'm afraid that the stupid one is YOU. I didn't wrote that the black stone is god, but that "only symbolises islamic god." You do know how to read, right? Christians have commandment against lying, on the other hand muhammadans are OBLIGATED to lie, just read Sahih Muslim's Hadith number 6303-05.
Please show me where does Bible says that the earth is flat and where quran says that earth is sphere. It should be easy
the stupid evil quran mention, "bow to none other than allah"
so why muslims bow to the kaaba, black stone?? that stone must be allah.
if not, then you fucking muslims are bowing to an object which is idolatry and which mohamed hated. fuck you. why run round 7 times?? fuck you idolators muslims. fuck you
does the sun travel at night to prostrate to allah??
does the sun need permission to rise in the morning??
fuck you idiot, you know science expose islam, but in the 7th century islam can lie to the people. not now, we know the truth, but you are stucked in this shitlam. fuck your mom's massive cunt and fuck your dad's assbutt
@GERONAMI #2 You lied on the Prophet by saying that someone came to him asking about the sunset. WRONG!! He was the one who asked someone if they knew where the sun went. He then replied teaching theological exegesis of nature otherwise he would have given a physical location instead of saying that the sun prostrates at GOD's throne you fool. You are talking about science, the study of natures physical FUNCTIONS. He was teaching spirituality which is the interpretation and GUIDANCE in nature!
@GERONAMI #1 the verse says he reached the setting of the sun NOT the place where the sun sets. It's called geographical persperctive. Have you never watched the sun set on the horizon or the moon rise over the mountains? Dont you realise that technically neither the sun nor moon sets but it is our geographical perspective. So tell the rest of humanity that they should stop saying "sunset" and "sunrise" since it is not scientifically factual! LOL CHECKMATE!
The only reason why Qor'an is not used in translation is to avoid the misunderstanding as it go from language to language. A sentence translated in ten consecutive languages may change its meaning completely and that is why we only use Arabic and we avoid use translations. So if you need to know find good arab translators and do not find weak points. So do not read translation of your mother language to English. Take the Arabic Qor'an and translate to English you will minimize errors. T
swimming .... swimming ... ???!!! thats what you have to criticise ???!!! ... Ignorant Idiot ... have you never seen astronauts swimming through space ... I am going to take a wild guess and say you know as little about english, grammer and science as you do about religion ... ignorance is a disease and you are typhoid mary !
we all knows that the biggest terriorist of the world is Hitler who killed 6cr innocent and unlce john 4 cr who is from Chiristianity... alo note 9/11 is inside job which u can check into youtube... most of th chriistian country has latest weapon and bomb by using this they spread terriore.. also note. before the indipency of our country they use to call our freedom fighter like bhagat singh m gandhi as terriorist.... now its time for reaction
@sylweg1 Genesis ch 1”16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night
Job 9:6 He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. Job 26:11 The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke.
tell me is it right or wrong..............its taken from bible only for ur infor your cant prove quran wrong u read it.......do u know i have 100 list o errore in bible... if ur reff hebrew then tell is english bible is wrong
would you claim that Allah is 'reflected light' or Moon lights with 'own light'?
Now, I have shown you Quran to convince you that in the matter of word 'light' YOU LOOK EXACTLY as the vulgar word, you have used against me in your comment.
@sylweg1 so i am conlcuding that bible is not the word of God becouse God content cannot be wrong and jesus is a massenger becouse you fail prove me wrong................our religion is not baseless u need to comment once you read the quran and with proper reff like what i did ok brother. may allah peace be upon you and show you the right path amin.............
@sylweg1 Leviticus 25:44 and 45 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.. dear all bible called women as property of unknown man... bible dgrade women
@sylweg: bible says earth has piller, 2nd to confirm true chiristianity we have to drink deadly poison, can you do that so that i will become chiristian today itself? adultry test for women is it practicle? 3rd bible says world has to ight 1 sun and 1 mon, do u agree with that?
2. In the matter of your: 'we have to drink deadly poison'. - Actually you don't seem to understand what is written there in the Bible.
Obviously Christians HAVE NOT TO DRINK POISON.
2a. YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER ALL Mark16.14-18 There is written:
'[Jesus:] Go ... & preach the gospel to the whole human race ... Believers will be given the power to perform miracles: ...if they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be harmed';
@sylweg About the Bible, Mr the scientific, specialist in Islam, you would have known that we are thaught as a basis about the ancient scriptures that they were indeed messages of God to previous people (Moses and Jesus to Jews only). But the books were corrupted by ill hands, and political matters. Thus we are told that the ancient scriptures contains some passages not corrupted and others are. But when the Quran was revealed, it was commanded that he replaces all the ancients, that it resumes
@sylweg : ur changing jesus said test to those who said i am chiristian but they dont follow read properly, what about other 2 question ? i thing u dont have answer for that or u feel ashemad,,,,,,, let me clearify you peoples we as muslim blieve in jesus crise more then, he said no idole worship he follow but u do by putting his idole into the cross, he said god is one we folllow but you follow his miracle and thouth he is God
lol ... u r funny .... u should join a course in English
All the translations that u said in the beginning imply the same thing
And as for ayahs the sun setting in the murky waters...
It is a figure of speech... a personification ... Scientifically the earth rotates around the sun but we say the sun rises from east and sets in the west
lol u are such a loser ...Stop spreading blasphemy and hatred !!
The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
"And we have made the earth egg shaped".
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony.
@sylweg You arent serious, do you know arabic btw ? surely not. cause if you see the most famous Muslims scholars saying about this is clear ---> one of the meaning of dahaha means the form of an ostrich eggs and not any knid of egg. yeah edward lane lol and modern arabic translation...the best reference is the imam chafei, for the arabic langage, and its a unanimity in the Muslims scholar world and trough history, take note of that sir.
@Domna7 cont'd & - amazingly - Yusuf Ali DOESN'T MENTION AT ALL about your claim for 'daHaa'!!!! This Yusuf Ali, 1. who had known FLUENTLY both Arabic & English languages; 2. who remembered Quran BY MEMORY; 3. who had spent many years upon his English translation of Quran; 4. etc. HAS NOT EVEN NOTING ABOUT YOUR CLAIM, Domna!!! You cannot refuse the great work Yusuf Ali had put in his translation. But, Yusuf Ali has presented here obviously different opinion than you, Domna :-))) . tbc.
Pickthall, British convert to Islam, who made own translation of Quran, who CERTAINLY WOULD BE PLEASED with your claim about 'daHaa' - if only your claim was true,
@sylweg Abu bakr al Siddiq after he had been elected as the Khalifa, after the death of the prophet peace be upon him, had declared a war against ashab ridda in the yemen part, they refused to pay zakat after the prophet had died, Abu bakr declared them kouffar. ALL the Muslims among them Omar bnou al Khattab, disagreed with him, Abu bakr was at that time the sole person in the earth to say they have become kouffar. They listened to him, cause of the commandment to listen to the khalifa in Islam
@sylweg After this event by a little time, they saw the proof in the Quran that he was right : there are two things that makes a kaffir after being a Muslim, the association and the non payment of Zakat. Even not fasting ramadan doesnt makes a kaffir (though it can leads to hell fire but not for eternity). Now based on your argumentation, you would have said : one vs all, they disagree so they were right. It's a stupid argument, Omar bnou al Khattab had all recognized that he was right. why ? ->
Dear, my point is completely different than suggested as mine by you here:
Let you understand,
if you are talking with people speaking in English, but they use English words in completely different meanings than these ESTABLISHED IN DICTIONARIES,
so how beneficial would be such dialogue?
Now, your point is that it doesn't matter what people fluent in Arabic may say - if they disagree with you.
It is exactly your point in the matter of the verb 'daHaa' in Q79.30.
@sylweg because what makes us agree isnt the number or this imam or that, we all respect them, they have knowledge, but we should take only take it if it is justified by a source, and Islam there is 2 sources : Quran and sunna. Now all what you're saying in void arguments : he made hajj and so what ? does itmakes him a scholar ? and even if ? where is the proof in Quran and Sunna?. For our part look in answering christianity sites about this topic, you should find plenty.
Well, Domna, you propose to me another e-site which I see as mere PROPAGANDA.
Propaganda has the problem that uses TRUTH, only if it could be useful.
Let me explain in example from 'thetruecall':
- let you look to the left for article about iron to the last paragraph.
The e-site cites Q57.25, that 'we sent down iron'. Next the e-site tells some about thermonuclear fusion of iron in stars & that the iron is scattered around the universe in METEORS CONTAINING IRON, etc.
@sylweg Yes and did you verify all this or you just made assumptions to be at ease with yourself ? You're talking about propaganda but I'm pretty sure you just dont accept the truth that's all.
But the same e-site DOESN'T WANT EVEN TO MENTION that there is really easy explanation of the Quranic claim, that iron 'is sent down'.
So, 'meteors containing iron' have fallen to the Earth. Many pre-Islamic civilisations KNEW ABOUT THE METEORS that they came from the sky & WORSHIPPED THEM.
Eg. pre-Christian & pre-Islamic Greek Apollo's temple in Delphi - one of the most important sites of Greek religion venerated such stone.
@sylweg "Eg. pre-Christian & pre-Islamic Greek Apollo's temple in Delphi - one of the most important sites of Greek religion venerated such stone."
If it falls from teh sky, and they know it's iron that they use for main purposes, why would they worship them then ? you lack of knowledge and common sense. I cant indicate the way to blind people sorry.
@sylweg Seems you're changing the subject, fleeing...oh well :
"Even pre-Islamic Arabs knew about the matter that meteorites sometimes 'fell from sky'"
I don't know a source about it, that any civilization, talked about that the iron wasn't formed in the earth but comes from space. You lack of intellectual honesty and rationalism, you should study about the 7th century, you will know then that in the context of that period, it's impossible to know all what the Quran is talking about.
About Q57.25 'we sent iron'. It is just affirmative claim, which doesn't state nor 'all the iron', nor 'the iron which you possess', etc.
But I give you here a point.
This what i had aimed is to express that both iron obtained from meteorites was known to different people in different times, between different civilisations, & oftenly was interpeted as of divinely origin.
In this context the Q57.25 gives no novum to the matter.
Really, Muhammad could here express just common belief.
@sylweg finally the miracle of the Quran isnt only to speak about something that we just discoverd now, you ignore that the Quran is a linguistical miracle in Arabic, this miracle was adressed especially to the Arabs at that period which were the strongest that the humanity got in term of poetry. The miracles you're talking about are scientific or could be not, when ones hears that iron descend from the sky, even if he knows it, one asks this question : but who did ? this is intelligence.
Well, the Q55.19-20 gives vague explanations what the 'two seas' mean.
According to Yusuf Ali's commentary, the matter means the salt water of sea & fresh water or river in its mouth - they become separate, though flowing at each other.
If it is the case, so I am quite sure that it is observable for example at the mouth of Nile or Euphrates.
The Nabataean trading tribes could know easily about it.
However, I would like to know what is the matter with it according to you.
@sylweg1 Cousteau discovered it my friend :) , I think you should search about it carefully, it's clearly explained no need to come with suppositions again : What Cousteau and his crew are referring to is the massive amount of underwater springs. The water is lighter there and the pressure and salt from the other body keeps it from mixing with the rest. Like putting oil on regular water. Therefore the entire ocean does not mix.
@sylweg About the seas : ftm Cousteau's is had found only one, and he was surprised that such thing existed.
"Well, the 3 ANSWERS WHERE KNOWN TO SEMITES LONG BEFORE MUHAMMAD!" The normal person base his beliefs, Mr the scientific, not on suppositions, especially when you accuse someone of bein in error, you will only end ashaming yourself by such a level of claims.
The fact here is that you have no answer thus you concoct pleasant imaginary answer for you.
??? Mister I think you're drunk because we see nowhere in the verses where you could even SUPPOSE, like you to do it, which can make say this. We don't make suppositions in Islam, we have to study it, the language, the context of revelation, so we can make a claim. Something that seems unknown to a "specialist" of Islam.
You're just the typical ignorant anti-islam troll on youtube that's all. I've shown to viewers your mistakes and lies.
@Domna7 It's easy to accuse someone for drinking or trolling. But, just out of curiosity: Have you informed these people that your 'egg' assumption about the verb 'daHahaa' in Q79.30 is FALSE? For: 1. Tafsir al-Jalalayn claims about Q79.30: '' and after that He spread out the earth: He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having been spread out; '' I've found it on: 'altafsir.com' :-))) . tbc
@Domna7 cont'd 2. Pickthall, Arberry, Yusuf Ali, etc. ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE with your 'egg' claim for the 'daHahaa' of Q79.30; 3. Edward Lane's 'Arabic-English Lexicon' claims for 'daHahaa': ' daHaa ... He spread; spread out, or forth; expanded; or extended; a thing; &, when said of God, the earth; ... also, said of an ostrich, he expanded, or made wide, with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs : & said of a man, he spread, & made plain, even or smooth. ...' ' ??
@sylweg well that just shows that you have no answer thus, for the moment if you want till they discover your answer hh, this verses had disproven your claims.
Well, my proposition (of Mediterranean & Red Seas) still perfectly matches with Quran 55.19-22.
I have checked every Arabic word in these verses, so I'm quite sure, that I have given you the easiest explanation of your Quranic 'miracle', which Semites easily had knew from long before Muhammad.
Well, the Arabic word 'al-baHrayn' = 'two seas' exists in both verses: Q55.19 & Q25.53,
but in the Q25.53 it is precised that these are fresh & salty water.
For Quran sometimes REPEATS a few times the same stories,
so Tafsir al-Jalalayn may be right for Q55.19 - at least you cannot refuse such claim.
So, then:
'al-baHrayn' is also known as a historical name for Arabia's eastern coast, but today the name is reserved only for state of Bahrain (in Arabic 'al-baHrayn').
@Domna7 cont'd Now, according to: 'saudiaramcoworld(dot)com/issue/198404/bahrain.through.the.ages.htm', 'Dr. Paul Kunitzsch, Munich University, discussed a 1490 account of Bahrain by the navigator Ahmad ibn Majid: "And on it there is sweet water in all directions. The most interesting thing there is a place called al-Qasasir; there a man can dive into the salty sea with a water skin and fill it with sweet water while being down in the salt water..." ' tbc.
@Domna7 cont'd in another article on 'saudiaramcoworld(dot)com/issue/196406/land.of.the.two.seas.htm' there is stated: ' Indeed, the presence of sweet water beneath the briny sea is thought by philologists to account for the name Bahrain itself—an Arabic word meaning "two seas" ' -- More, though Bahrain is separated from Mecca by some 1000km of desert, but Muhammad CERTAINLY KNEW SOME ABOUT BAHRAIN, for Bahrain converted to Islam in 629CE - actually, Muhammad still lived in the time!!! tbc
@sylweg All what you said about the verse Q55.19, doesnt explains how Muhammad, an illetrate man, could have known that 2 SEAS (not rivers and seas) could meet in the place and dont mix together. That's why Cousteau and normal human being with a sane mind, find it amazing... You just fail to prove that in the 7th century it was common knowledge whereas arabs were very few to know about navigation....
@sylweg And my friend you have a flaw in your thinking : you base your proofs on Islamic History (and only what does fit you in some cases...), and you seem to forget that even his worse enemies testified of the fact that he was...illiterate. So an illiterate person just have to travel to speak about embryology, cosmology, the composition of an ant ! (glass, yes sir), etc...So its too much for an illiterate person to know about all this. And about christianity and judaism hh, I will tell you.
1. Let you consider: I have written that Muhammad was intelligent,
however the word 'intelligent' doesn't necessarily mean 'literate'.
Muhammad could get much of Quranic claims easily from other people in his trade travels, from some of his companions, & from his contemporary Jewish & Christian inhabitants of Arabia.
Illiteracy doesn't mean that Muhammad couldn't hear about the matters, right?
Of course, I don't suspect much Muhammad's knowledge here & in fact
@sylweg "Muhammad could get much of Quranic claims easily from other people in his trade travels"
The most knowledgeable person at that time was ibn al harith bin kalada, a physician Jew, that converted to Islam, and sorry, sources shows that all what you are pointing out to, is mere speculations. What you should post when refuting something is posts, especially accusations, is PROOFS. But you will not find out a single one towards your way you want it to be.
@sylweg What you say about the myth of the prophet taking knowledge, despite being illiterate, is too much imagination my friend. he wasnt known for being for science lool, in the 7th century despite him traveling, it's impossible to know all that. Plus not only you accuse of having taken from Greek, but he also did took only what is correct : Ptolemaic system makes the earth in the center and sun moves...The Quran says all moves :)
@Domna7 cont'd 2. Embryology is described in Q23.13-14 with much more details. & here there's no doubt - Quran PLAGIARIZES pre-Islamic GALEN. Quran just is less detailed. a. Galen describes development of fetus/embryo in 4 stages - Quran do it, too, b. Quran uses words looking like translations from Galen, c. Galen claims: 'Thus it caused flesh to grow on and around all the bones', & Q23.13: 'then We made - the lump - bones - - We covered - the bones - flesh' d. etc. tbc.
Wrong you're just repeating what You read in islamophobic sites. What they do is make it seems that Quran makes the bones creation before the muscles and that's false. there is no enumeration : "touma" in arabic inst "fa"...They are made approx in the same time.
Here have fun : watch?v=mmqlodiEFsg&feature=related
here his book fully responding to your false understanding of embryology in the Quran : hamzatzortzis(dot)com/?page_id=61
@sylweg Imagine a man, in his 40, wealthy, having all he desires, deciding on tricking people, and inventing a sect of christianism : he upsets his tribe, his first follower are a woman, a child and an old man...His tribe offers him to be a king, never in history tolerated to be ruled but they did made an exception for him, and offers him, women, wealth everything someone desires in this world...an impostor would have accepted. He didn't.
Yeah the myth of Muhammad being the villain again and the poor Jews innocents, like nowadays that's it ? Tell me why did the Jews paid tribes and broke treaty of peace with muslims, to attack muslims ? Didnt you know that they were sentenced by their own kind a Jew, and with their law in the Torah whoever did treason, its the decapitation...But of course Muhammad is blood thirsty ...
@Domna7 cont'd 'iqra(dot)net' writes that: ' When he performed his farewell pilgrimage, he had 124, 000 of his companions with him. ' Quite many people, isn't? More, It's obvious that Muhammad had to have contacts with Jews & Christians in many places (eg. when he traded)' & IT'S ABSOLUTELY IMPOSSIBLE that none of CHRISTIANS COULD NOT WANT TO EXPLAIN HIM CHRISTIANITY (!!!); More, it is claimed that Muhammad knew eg. Harith ibn Kalada - the graduate of medical school in Jundishapur; tbc.
@sylweg Not only he did upsets his tribes being with almost no one and threatened of death, he says : Jesus is a messenger like him and not a man, the trinity is an alteration to the previous message to the jews. The christians are happy to hear that you think ? this impostor don't seem intelligent in fact, if we follow your logic. Then the Jews : what do you know the Jew says about Jesus ? a b******, his mother a ...The Quran defends Jesus and Mary against such things.
@sylweg you think this is the logical way of thinking and handling situations like this, of an impostor ? to put all the tribes and nations against him, just like that, while he were known even among his enemies al amine, the trustful one, rich, etc... ? there is only one answer to all this : he was motivated by the message he carried and it was true enough to risk everything for it as well the first Muslims for it. Accept the truth, its good for you.
Well, I was not living with Muhammad to be convinced what actually motivated him, for theories may differ.
For example, Muhammad being orphan could have a heart for orphans, etc. Such psychological reactions are known quite well.
---
However, returning to your claim that 'al-baHrayn' = 'two seas' - well, there is no known fresh water sea in the planet, so or you should stop insisting it for Q55.19, or you should admit that Q25.53 has false statement.
@sylweg about the rest I already did responded clearly, and you are providing no evidence to what you want to proves. Mere speculations. I let people judging.
For this video here is the response of a brother that refuted well his mistakes :
@sylweg About Maurice Bucaille you just don't know what you're talking about. He did become Muslim after discovering the miracle of the corpse of the the pharaoh of Moses story, being non-mummified and completely conservated. He was the leading doctor proceeding to the analyse of the corpse. So he wasn't anybody saying anything for money, he was already famous, rich unlike you. Stop lying to yourself and expose the truth. You're only unfair to yourself.People can live without you you know.
@sylweg I already explained for the word dahaaha that we dont explain the Quran solely on the words of a man, even if he is amongst one of the famous moufassirines of Quran, he can be wrong, and the Quran is read in Arabic sir not in English.
Did you read all the meaning of the word Dahaaha ? you will say oh yes i know everything about islam, of course...
What is the origin of the word dawh from which derive the word ?...
TRY RESPONDING TO THIS if you'rent a lier that obscures the truth.
@sylweg One last thing : he did traveled and picked all the non erronous knowledge from greek etc (and surprisingly not one erronous one). How did know about pharaoh of Moses, and that we will find him non mumified and preserved ? in sourat roum (the romans), how did the prophete know after his death that the roman will achieve victory after defeat on persians even being weak ? ...he did travel in time ? hhhh
Its not heaven ignorant one, you're just humiliating yourself. Begin cleaning your own door and with your pedophile priests, rapes and incests ravaging your countries will you.
Of course, the matter of Mediterranean Sea & Red Sea doesn't mean to be the only proposition :-))) .
However, I'm really interested where is written the statement described by you as Cousteau's. I really would like to know it, not for any special sake,
just for I very like the Cousteau's adventure.
So, show me the link to the matter, please (thank you in advance).
@sylweg Oh forgot about the bahrain fictionnal argument you referred to :
"The term appears five times in the Qu'ran, but DOES NOT refer to the modern island — originally known to the Arabs as "AWAL" — but rather to the oases of al-Katif and Hadjar (modern al-Hasa).[8] It is unclear when the term began to refer exclusively to the Awal islands, but it was probably AFTER the 15th century."
Stop clinging to suppositions, not one mufassir had pointed to the Awal region (bahrain today).
'Language and linguistic origins in Bahrain ...' on pages 15-16:
'
... it is necessary to remember that medieval Arab sources treat the ancient region [of al-Bahrayn]
and its dependency, i.e., the island of Awal [modern Kingdom of Bahrain], as ONE ENTITY.
... prior to Islam and after its advent, Bahrain embraced the coastal line of Eastern Arabia, thereby subsuming al-Qatif, al-Ahsa and the island of Awal.
@sylweg You dont understand what I'm saying it seems : you said the miracle of the two seas in the Quran, could have been known from the place called Bahrain. Then you concluded--> its from there that the prophet peace be upon him known about it and put it in the Quran...So when Quran is saying the two seas its because of this you say.
But the fact is that : which two seas were originally intended remains in dispute and
@sylweg in the official wiki page of Bahrain country, we could read this and further more : "It is unclear when the term began to refer exclusively to the Awal islands, but it was probably AFTER the 15th century."
Encyclopedia of Islam, Vol. I. "Bahrayn", p. 941. E.J. Brill (Leiden), 1960.
If you have some hidden knowledge about their own history, they don't know, feel free to illuminate them by sharing your pieces of knowledge :) ...
Well, wikipedia is not reliable (everyone can write an article) source, tho' it is useful.
In your wikipedia you can find exactly opposite claim to yours, too.
I don't possess the 'Encyclopedia...' you mention, but certainly you cite the link LETTER AFTER LETTER from wikipedia, so I believe you haven't check it personally.
My source I shown you - Dr Mahdi Abdalla Al-Tajir's 'Language...' edited in 1982,
- you can easily find it between google's book. Let you read it & compare.
@sylweg But even so, your suppositions aren't proofs, all that doesn't explain how he could have known that there is a [barrier] between the 2 : "It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuarie is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers." {Oceanography, Gross, p.242. Also see Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301 ; Oceanography, Gross, p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp.300-301}"
@sylweg I saw your link, I saw an error : "The apologists are generalizing the very special case of the Strait of Gibraltar and claiming that whenever two seas meet, there is a barrier between them"
Does the verse says it's the case everywhere ? Show me then. I agree with you on this but If some Muslims did, well it's their own mistake.
“He has set free THE two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.” (Quran 55:19-20)
Now, you should be puzzled - is the Davis's 'barrier' the same barrier as in Q55.19?
If you believe in trustworthiness of Quran you have only one way here - you have to admit that the Muslim e-sites HAVE DISTORTED THE MEANING of Davis's book.
Hence, it is example why I cannot believe your Muslim propaganda e-sites.
The worst issue here is that Muslims mostly don't bother to verify their sources.
You're simply another Muslim who don't bother to investigate your own claims.
Although Yaqut discusses the island of Awal in a separate entry under the appropriate alphabetical order, yet he treats it as a part of the old region [of al-Bahrayn].
In his account of Bahrain not only does he mention specific places on the island of Awal but the inhabitants of those places as well.
'
As you see
according to him claiming that modern Bahrain was not part of historical al-Bahrayn is like claim that Long Island is not in America for Long Island has own name :-)
@sylweg So its not something that you can observe with naked eye, so you can claim there is a barrier.
Yes Muhammad did travel to the cham region (Irak Syria etc nowadays), but does it proves that he had discovered what you had said in his travels ? If so, the meccans wanted to kill him, would they not point out his tricks easily why did they not ? remember to read well the wiki page of bahrain country.
@sylweg I dont believe in wiki either, but it's the official page of the gov of bahrain, not anybody write there, so I do trust them about their history more than your tajir, my christian friend :)
"He was many times in Syria & Yemen & at least once in Eastern Arabia"
yes and so ? Can you give one good sources about Muhammad being accused at that time of repeating something they did already know ? Thank you :)
So for 30 years of his life he saw & heard & maybe talked about different issues. Also, he met very different people, too.
If I told you anything what is known somewhere in the West & insisted it is knowledge from the God, you would surely laughed me out claiming that it cannot be any proof for you.
But when I try to show you that Quran is not so miraculous, as you believe, for 30 years of travelling for trade is enough to know something, you turn away claiming I'm wrong.
@sjdffhefvthftefcetsj If he was a false prophet, how come many people today convert to islam though islam is in maybe his worst era ? your very own people convert willingly why ? then if he was a pedophile, how come its not Muslims aren't, and dont makes the news in papers like your priests...how come he cannot defeat the Jews ? the zionist were already beaten at his time because of their treachery, and today what made them strong is our deviation from our religion but things are changing...
mohamed was a false prophet. today there are still muslims, cos they are not allowed to leave, the penalty is death. and tey were all forced into islam at birth. besides hope of 72 virgins is one of the reason for muslims to be stucked in this stupid cult. yeah, allah cannot defeat the jewes and now he blame it on the muslims. what a joke. please leave islam and join humanity again
@muhamadick you're full of ignorance, for example the 72 virgins is a christian belief not a Muslim belief...Please educate yourself and stop playing at the western illuminated man that knows all and dictates the how to live, when they have shits till their necks in their own country which they cant solve till now...
@sjdffhefvthftefcetsj "if you read the hadith, its written 72 virgins for every muslim men."
show me the hadth with its sources then :)
"even the quran mentioned, there are black eyed virgins with big boobs and pointy ones"
black eyed yes its mentionned (I enjoy beauty ^^). but big boobs well I think you watch too much porn that makes you applying your perverse imagination into imagining "things" in Islam...
Where did you see they won ? they could destroy masjid al aqsa ? makka ? they are already having a hard tome controling a tiny little territory like palestine that they robbed (askhenazis arent jews).
"why is israel still standing and kicking allah's soldiers??"
Like when they pissed their pants in Liban in 2006 hhhhh, you seem to not knowing the truth.
about the pedophilia thats a myth, vehiculated by islamophobes, for sheeps like u
but another bit of Quranic 'miraculous science' is the claim that when man would dive enough deep in sea, so he can't see own hands for there is so dark.
But imagine what I've found:
1. divers claim that visibility in the sea is up to 30m depth, sometimes less;
2. the best pearl-divers dive up to 40m, though it may be harmful;
@sylweg1 Cousteau : "We studied the assertions by certain researchers about barriers separating seas, and noticed that the Mediterranean Sea had its own salinity and density and housed autochthonous fauna and flora. Then we examined the water of the Atlantic Ocean and discovered features entirely different from those of the Mediterranean Sea. According to our expectations,
@sylweg1 these two seas that merged in the strait of Gibraltar should present similar characteristics in terms of salinity, density and other properties. The two seas presented different features even though they were adjacent. This greatly puzzled us. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together. The same sort of a barrier had also been observed in Bab Al-Mandab in the Gulf of Aden connecting with the Red Sea."
@sylweg For what Quran, listen carefully to this : watch?v=RTSixvpQhiY
For what I was talking about God being the uncaused and creator of this universe leaving no doubt when we study carefully the universe and its laws : watch?v=kOdQv4pSaUc&list=PLE47D82FB669F391E&index=1
why dont you talk to dr zair naik about this? LMAO becuase you know he will destroy you and you arnt worthy of that great mans time. and honestly you are a fucking ididot, your reading the quran wrong you dumb hindu fuck. before you slander our religion look at yours which believes in cows as a god estagfurallah
CiMBoMTurkiye93 4 days ago
@CiMBoMTurkiye93
and you believe the black stone is your god?
your fucking god send you a stone so you can idolate, bow and kiss??
run round 7 times?? throw stone at the wall ?
cut your foreskin? cos your pig allah made a mistake with his creation? fuck you
the moon higher than stars?? earth is flat as a carpet??
sun travel and prostrate to allah's throne??
fuck you, do you even have a thinking brain?? fuck your mother
Tsonga88 3 days ago
@Tsonga88 how the fuck is the black stone our god? are you a fucking idiot? stop talking shit when you dont know shit about islam. your a fucknig joke and a pathetic cunt
CiMBoMTurkiye93 3 days ago
@CiMBoMTurkiye93 black stone only symbolises islamic god. And just like the black stone, the allah also is dead and cold. Muhammad was a liar and con artist who said many stupid things such as that fetus in the womb develops bones first and flesh after, or that the earth is flat and one of 7 earths who are departed 500 years from each other, and many many other stupid things the exposes him as a satan's puppet, which is why Muhammad is in hell right now.
aClockworkBoec 1 day ago
@aClockworkBoec how the fuck is the black stone our god? keep talking ignorant christians it shows me you guys dont know anything and are lying, i though jesus said dont lie? your a bad christian. also in the quran it says the world is spherical so here you are lying again, however it was in the bible that the earth was flat, how stupid do you feel now? LMAOOOO dont try and debate me moron i will own you 10 times out of 10, so please shut the fuck up and get the fuck out. PWNDDDD!!!
CiMBoMTurkiye93 1 day ago
@CiMBoMTurkiye93 I thought muhammadans aren't supposed to curse? I'm afraid that the stupid one is YOU. I didn't wrote that the black stone is god, but that "only symbolises islamic god." You do know how to read, right? Christians have commandment against lying, on the other hand muhammadans are OBLIGATED to lie, just read Sahih Muslim's Hadith number 6303-05.
Please show me where does Bible says that the earth is flat and where quran says that earth is sphere. It should be easy
aClockworkBoec 1 day ago
@CiMBoMTurkiye93
the stupid evil quran mention, "bow to none other than allah"
so why muslims bow to the kaaba, black stone?? that stone must be allah.
if not, then you fucking muslims are bowing to an object which is idolatry and which mohamed hated. fuck you. why run round 7 times?? fuck you idolators muslims. fuck you
Tsonga88 23 hours ago
@CiMBoMTurkiye93
stupid stupid islam.
does the sun travel at night to prostrate to allah??
does the sun need permission to rise in the morning??
fuck you idiot, you know science expose islam, but in the 7th century islam can lie to the people. not now, we know the truth, but you are stucked in this shitlam. fuck your mom's massive cunt and fuck your dad's assbutt
Tsonga88 22 hours ago
My friend read the Quran again and again if Allah wills u will accept Islam. May allah bring u out of ignorance
mohdzacky 1 week ago
What is that thing on his head, a tablecloth?
truthoutmedia 2 weeks ago
Wait till u die and the angel of death decends !!! Q : will it be to late then !!
DJibby1 2 weeks ago
ur accent sucks n ur a retard who is enjoying to pretend like dr zakir naik
drsummu 3 weeks ago
first learn proper english u idiot
drsummu 3 weeks ago
@GERONAMI #2 You lied on the Prophet by saying that someone came to him asking about the sunset. WRONG!! He was the one who asked someone if they knew where the sun went. He then replied teaching theological exegesis of nature otherwise he would have given a physical location instead of saying that the sun prostrates at GOD's throne you fool. You are talking about science, the study of natures physical FUNCTIONS. He was teaching spirituality which is the interpretation and GUIDANCE in nature!
Harzburgitic 3 weeks ago
@GERONAMI #1 the verse says he reached the setting of the sun NOT the place where the sun sets. It's called geographical persperctive. Have you never watched the sun set on the horizon or the moon rise over the mountains? Dont you realise that technically neither the sun nor moon sets but it is our geographical perspective. So tell the rest of humanity that they should stop saying "sunset" and "sunrise" since it is not scientifically factual! LOL CHECKMATE!
Harzburgitic 3 weeks ago
@Harzburgitic
aha! sun prostrate to allah at night???
fuck you pig muslim, fuck you
muhamadick 2 weeks ago
@Harzburgitic
the sun bow to allah's throne??? oh come on fuck you
muhamadick 2 weeks ago
@GERONAMI Have you ever sat and watched a sunset or sunrise in your life?
Harzburgitic 3 weeks ago
The only reason why Qor'an is not used in translation is to avoid the misunderstanding as it go from language to language. A sentence translated in ten consecutive languages may change its meaning completely and that is why we only use Arabic and we avoid use translations. So if you need to know find good arab translators and do not find weak points. So do not read translation of your mother language to English. Take the Arabic Qor'an and translate to English you will minimize errors. T
kiweke 1 month ago
@kiweke Im LAUGHING at your claim of misunderstanding
tell us about 96.2 and its actual source
I know, but whats your excuse
proudfemale 1 month ago
thats true; QURAN is not a scientific book; its a book which guide to lead life
Musimon1 1 month ago
@Musimon1 wait ..what ?? so you're saying that god was stupid enough not to know about all this .. ??
junkie018 1 month ago
dont have basic manners ...why dont you close the toilet while taking a video!!
nts111 2 months ago
swimming .... swimming ... ???!!! thats what you have to criticise ???!!! ... Ignorant Idiot ... have you never seen astronauts swimming through space ... I am going to take a wild guess and say you know as little about english, grammer and science as you do about religion ... ignorance is a disease and you are typhoid mary !
swordfish3660 2 months ago
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@swordfish3660
yes ignorance is a disease and so is islam
muslims are diseased with islam, the plaque of ignorance.
fuck the pedophile mohamed and fuck pig allah
muhamadick 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
we all knows that the biggest terriorist of the world is Hitler who killed 6cr innocent and unlce john 4 cr who is from Chiristianity... alo note 9/11 is inside job which u can check into youtube... most of th chriistian country has latest weapon and bomb by using this they spread terriore.. also note. before the indipency of our country they use to call our freedom fighter like bhagat singh m gandhi as terriorist.... now its time for reaction
MegaRafique 2 months ago
Quran says that the earth is flat:
1) “And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet.” [Al-Quran 71:19]
2) Also check for earth's shape: Al-Qur’an 51: 48 ; Al-Qur’an 78: 6-7 ; Al-Qur’an 15: 19 ; Al-Quran 79:30
PS: For more detail about Islam, search:
1) 'Quranic Contradictions, Inconsistencies and Errors - FaithFreedom'
2) 'articles - FaithFreedom org'
Zakir's facts are lies. Search the following website on internet - which will award US$50,000 if proven wrong:
'Sina's Challenge'
rash9876 3 months ago
@sylweg1: Genesis ch 1”16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night
Job 9:6 He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. Job 26:11 The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke.
once again see.. u chiristian are ass hole u modify ur religiouse book means u do anything to win,
MegaRafique 3 months ago
@MegaRafique
Well, Muslim, who, using English, performs 'pillars of islam',
yet still is unable to understand that in Hebrew language the world 'pillar' is used both in physical & metaphorical sense? :-))) .
You are not even able to admit that there is verse Job 26.7 is written that the earth is hung 'over nothing'.
According to you, how the 'nothing' matches with physical 'pillars'?
But what could I expect after you who still have to believe, that Quran is 'unmistaken'.
tbc.
sylweg1 3 months ago
@sylweg1 Genesis ch 1”16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night
Job 9:6 He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble. Job 26:11 The pillars of the heavens quake, aghast at his rebuke.
tell me is it right or wrong..............its taken from bible only for ur infor your cant prove quran wrong u read it.......do u know i have 100 list o errore in bible... if ur reff hebrew then tell is english bible is wrong
MegaRafique 3 months ago
@MegaRafique
cont'd
The word 'light' doesn't imply especially 'reflected light' or 'own light', for both meanings are possible translations.
For you don't understand it, so let me explain you this but using Quran:
Q24.35: 'Allah is the light (noor) ... light (noor) upon light (noor) ... God guides whom He will to His light (noor)';
But in Q71.16:
'[Allah] made a moon a light (noor)'!
Now, Quran uses 'noor'='light' to describe both: Allah & Moon.
tbc.
sylweg1 3 months ago
@MegaRafique
cont'd
Well, so - be consistent!
would you claim that Allah is 'reflected light' or Moon lights with 'own light'?
Now, I have shown you Quran to convince you that in the matter of word 'light' YOU LOOK EXACTLY as the vulgar word, you have used against me in your comment.
Greetings
sylweg1 3 months ago
@MegaRafique
& lastly, though I am thankful to every Muslim who try to show me his/her arguments,
however the arguments are taken MAINLY FROM MUSLIM PROPAGANDA e-sites, etc.
I have not much time for investigations to show you how far your own arguments are mistaken.
So, I request you - let you make own thorough investigation - LET YOU DO NOT BASE ONLY upon Muslim PROPAGANDA.
For otherwise your own religious faith is based upon - mainly - false basement.
Greetings.
sylweg1 3 months ago
@sylweg1 so i am conlcuding that bible is not the word of God becouse God content cannot be wrong and jesus is a massenger becouse you fail prove me wrong................our religion is not baseless u need to comment once you read the quran and with proper reff like what i did ok brother. may allah peace be upon you and show you the right path amin.............
MegaRafique 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sylweg1 Leviticus 25:44 and 45 44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.. dear all bible called women as property of unknown man... bible dgrade women
MegaRafique 2 months ago
@sylweg: bible says earth has piller, 2nd to confirm true chiristianity we have to drink deadly poison, can you do that so that i will become chiristian today itself? adultry test for women is it practicle? 3rd bible says world has to ight 1 sun and 1 mon, do u agree with that?
MegaRafique 3 months ago
@MegaRafiq
1. I request you to precise your sources.
2. In the matter of your: 'we have to drink deadly poison'. - Actually you don't seem to understand what is written there in the Bible.
Obviously Christians HAVE NOT TO DRINK POISON.
2a. YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER ALL Mark16.14-18 There is written:
'[Jesus:] Go ... & preach the gospel to the whole human race ... Believers will be given the power to perform miracles: ...if they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be harmed';
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@MegaRafique
cont'd
2b. More, the Bible WARNS people AGAINST testing the God just for someone's mere CURIOSITY, as it is considered a SIN in the Bible.
So, as you see,
drinking poison IS NOT A SPORT for Christians, & Christians HAVE NOT TO drink any poison.
However, God has promised Christians, that if they go to preach the gospel, so God will help them in the mission.
But there are much more plots in the matter for such short youtube comment.
Greetings.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg what about other qouestion? i ahve not recived answer for that
MegaRafique 3 months ago
Comment removed
sylweg1 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Mega Rafique
welcome,
'Pillars'. You've not shown me the source of your claim, so I just assume that you mean 1Samuel 2.8.
Some translations prefer here 'pillars', or 'foundations': 'for the pillars of the earth [are] the LORD's'.
However, the Bible covers another - completely different - claim, too:
Job 26.7:
'He [God] stretcheth out the north over the EMPTY PLACE,
[and] hangeth the earth upon NOTHING.'.
So, as honest Muslim, what you would tell here? :-))) .
tbc.
sylweg1 3 months ago
@sylweg1
Well, someone flagged as spam my comment with below Biblical verse:
(the Bible) Job 26.7:
'He [God] stretcheth out the north over the EMPTY PLACE,
[and] hangeth the earth upon NOTHING.'.
Quite interesting that people more than 3000 years ago could know about it that the Earth is in 'EMPTY SPACE', isn't?
Greetings for the vandal, who flagged it.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg About the Bible, Mr the scientific, specialist in Islam, you would have known that we are thaught as a basis about the ancient scriptures that they were indeed messages of God to previous people (Moses and Jesus to Jews only). But the books were corrupted by ill hands, and political matters. Thus we are told that the ancient scriptures contains some passages not corrupted and others are. But when the Quran was revealed, it was commanded that he replaces all the ancients, that it resumes
Domna7 3 months ago
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sylweg 3 months ago
Comment removed
sylweg1 3 months ago
@Rafiq
cont'd
So, let's look to the wider context of usage of the word 'pillar' in the Bible:
1Timothy 3.15:
'... in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the PILLAR & FOUNDATION of the truth.';
1. Proverbs 9.1:
'Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven PILLARS';
As you, see - the Bible uses the word 'pillar' to describe that God is 'the pillar of truth'. Would not you claim it, too? :-))).
Now, I request you to check thoroughly your sources. Greetings.
sylweg1 3 months ago
@sylweg : ur changing jesus said test to those who said i am chiristian but they dont follow read properly, what about other 2 question ? i thing u dont have answer for that or u feel ashemad,,,,,,, let me clearify you peoples we as muslim blieve in jesus crise more then, he said no idole worship he follow but u do by putting his idole into the cross, he said god is one we folllow but you follow his miracle and thouth he is God
MegaRafique 3 months ago
You are humiliating yourself !! Get a life !!
excelsior0313 3 months ago
lol ... u r funny .... u should join a course in English
All the translations that u said in the beginning imply the same thing
And as for ayahs the sun setting in the murky waters...
It is a figure of speech... a personification ... Scientifically the earth rotates around the sun but we say the sun rises from east and sets in the west
lol u are such a loser ...Stop spreading blasphemy and hatred !!
Ignorant retard!! (¬_¬)
excelsior0313 3 months ago
The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:
"And we have made the earth egg shaped".
[Al-Qur’an 79:30]
The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.
Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony.
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Well, you make FALSE statement, here.
Please, look to the dictionaries to find what Arabic 'daHaa' means.
* Let you see to my channels background at point 8) what - according to EDWARD LANE's 'Arabic-English Lexicon'- the word means.
* According to dr Baalbeki's 'al-Mawrid':
'daHaa' = 'to spread out; to level (off), flat(ten)' (page 538);
Now, could you show me the source which you base your FALSE statement on?
I request you as it would be helpful both - for YOU & me.
Greetings.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg You arent serious, do you know arabic btw ? surely not. cause if you see the most famous Muslims scholars saying about this is clear ---> one of the meaning of dahaha means the form of an ostrich eggs and not any knid of egg. yeah edward lane lol and modern arabic translation...the best reference is the imam chafei, for the arabic langage, and its a unanimity in the Muslims scholar world and trough history, take note of that sir.
Salam,
Domna7 3 months ago
Comment removed
sylweg 3 months ago
@Domna7
Thanks for your 'sir' to me, as most Muslims whom I am talking with write rather insults against me.
Now, do you know that Lane has:
1. spent some 30 years in the Middle East in 19th century,
2. collected probably all Arabic stems in his 'Lexicon', with vast explanations of meanings, usage, etc.,
3. asked over 100 Arabic native speakers - both educated & uneducated?
So, you should show some respect to Lane's 'Lexicon'.
But, Lane NEVER MENTIONS about your 'egg' claim.
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
&, of course, Lane illustrated Quranic usage of the Arabic stems, wherever he found it helpful.
---
Now, dr Baalbaki's 'al-Mawrid', & others' dictionaries show how consistent is the meaning of 'daHaa' in Arabic language.
More, Let you look to Yusuf Ali's translation of Q79.30 with his commentary. There's only link to his commentary in Q41.11,
where he claims:
'From 79:30 it would appear as if the earth was spread out after the sky was made.'
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
sylweg 3 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
Pickthall, British convert to Islam, who made own translation of Quran, who CERTAINLY WOULD BE PLEASED with your claim about 'daHaa' - if only your claim was true,
so, this Pickthall claims that Q79.30 means:
'And after that He spread the earth'.
Absolutely no mention about any 'egg' here.
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@Domna7
& my beloved translator - Jan Murza Tarak Buczacki - Polish transator of Quran, who:
1. was Polish Muslim Tatar from noble Muslim Polish family,
2. made 3 year hajj in 18th century,
3. learnt Arabic & Turkish languages for religious purpose,
4. is credited to translate Quran to Polish language (edited in 1858), but certainly co-operated with many other Muslim Polish Tatars,
& the translation CLAIMS EXACTLY THE SAME what Yusuf Ali, Pickhall & others claim.
Well, they DISAGREE WITH YOU.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg Abu bakr al Siddiq after he had been elected as the Khalifa, after the death of the prophet peace be upon him, had declared a war against ashab ridda in the yemen part, they refused to pay zakat after the prophet had died, Abu bakr declared them kouffar. ALL the Muslims among them Omar bnou al Khattab, disagreed with him, Abu bakr was at that time the sole person in the earth to say they have become kouffar. They listened to him, cause of the commandment to listen to the khalifa in Islam
Domna7 3 months ago
@sylweg After this event by a little time, they saw the proof in the Quran that he was right : there are two things that makes a kaffir after being a Muslim, the association and the non payment of Zakat. Even not fasting ramadan doesnt makes a kaffir (though it can leads to hell fire but not for eternity). Now based on your argumentation, you would have said : one vs all, they disagree so they were right. It's a stupid argument, Omar bnou al Khattab had all recognized that he was right. why ? ->
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Dear, my point is completely different than suggested as mine by you here:
Let you understand,
if you are talking with people speaking in English, but they use English words in completely different meanings than these ESTABLISHED IN DICTIONARIES,
so how beneficial would be such dialogue?
Now, your point is that it doesn't matter what people fluent in Arabic may say - if they disagree with you.
It is exactly your point in the matter of the verb 'daHaa' in Q79.30.
Greetings
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg because what makes us agree isnt the number or this imam or that, we all respect them, they have knowledge, but we should take only take it if it is justified by a source, and Islam there is 2 sources : Quran and sunna. Now all what you're saying in void arguments : he made hajj and so what ? does itmakes him a scholar ? and even if ? where is the proof in Quran and Sunna?. For our part look in answering christianity sites about this topic, you should find plenty.
Peace,
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Well, Domna, you propose to me another e-site which I see as mere PROPAGANDA.
Propaganda has the problem that uses TRUTH, only if it could be useful.
Let me explain in example from 'thetruecall':
- let you look to the left for article about iron to the last paragraph.
The e-site cites Q57.25, that 'we sent down iron'. Next the e-site tells some about thermonuclear fusion of iron in stars & that the iron is scattered around the universe in METEORS CONTAINING IRON, etc.
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg Yes and did you verify all this or you just made assumptions to be at ease with yourself ? You're talking about propaganda but I'm pretty sure you just dont accept the truth that's all.
Domna7 3 months ago
Well, I VERY LIKE THE SCIENCE, though i'm not any scientist. I know pretty much about biology, astronomy, history, & so on,
FOR THE SCIENCE IS MY HOBBY.
In consequence, I look to any science-related claims from your preferred e-sites ALSO WITH THE POINT OF THEIR ACCORDANCE WITH THE SCIENCE.
So, THE RESULT IS that I cannot accept propaganda's claims as a truth (with exception of the pieces of truth which might be there),
& I'M SAD THAT SO MANY MUSLIMS ACCEPTS THE MUSLIM PROPAGANDA AS TRUTH.
sylweg 3 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
But the same e-site DOESN'T WANT EVEN TO MENTION that there is really easy explanation of the Quranic claim, that iron 'is sent down'.
So, 'meteors containing iron' have fallen to the Earth. Many pre-Islamic civilisations KNEW ABOUT THE METEORS that they came from the sky & WORSHIPPED THEM.
Eg. pre-Christian & pre-Islamic Greek Apollo's temple in Delphi - one of the most important sites of Greek religion venerated such stone.
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg "Eg. pre-Christian & pre-Islamic Greek Apollo's temple in Delphi - one of the most important sites of Greek religion venerated such stone."
If it falls from teh sky, and they know it's iron that they use for main purposes, why would they worship them then ? you lack of knowledge and common sense. I cant indicate the way to blind people sorry.
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Well, ancient Greeks worshipped the Delphi stone, for it was from heaven - they just believed it to be part of sacrum.
---
Domna, though meteorites don't fall on everyone's head :-))), but sometimes fall around & some meteorites are observed by people as such.
Eg. let you look for infos about WABAR METEORITE (in Saudi Arabia) - Harry Philby found the place in 1932,
however it was
THANKS TO LOCAL BEDUINS :-))) .
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
So, Philby found there a piece of stone (25lb) containing 90% of iron, & 5% of nickel.
The STONE CONTAINS AS WELL UNUSUALLY HIGH CONCENTRATION OF IRIDIUM (0.0006%),
what ALWAYS is interpreted as a proof for being meteorite.
So, Wabar meteorite is example that people sometimes know which stone is meteorite :-))) .
---
But the problem with Wabar meteorite is that we don't know how long ago it fell to Arabia -
estimates claim that it may me just 260 years old.
Greetings.
sylweg 3 months ago
@
cont'd
Even pre-Islamic Arabs knew about the matter that meteorites sometimes 'fell from sky'.
So, I request you to consider:
what if Q57.25 states just COMMON pre-Muhammadian pagan knowledge?
By the way, what is the miracle of Quran to tell anything known to others before Muhammad?
If the Meccan stone is/was of iron it could be THE EASIEST explanation of the 'miraculous knowledge' of Q57.25 :-))) .
But such claim is ragged of any miracle, so couldn't be stated in the propaganda e-site.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg Seems you're changing the subject, fleeing...oh well :
"Even pre-Islamic Arabs knew about the matter that meteorites sometimes 'fell from sky'"
I don't know a source about it, that any civilization, talked about that the iron wasn't formed in the earth but comes from space. You lack of intellectual honesty and rationalism, you should study about the 7th century, you will know then that in the context of that period, it's impossible to know all what the Quran is talking about.
Domna7 3 months ago
Well, I know history enough to catch that most of Quranic 'miraculous' claims MAY BE VERY EASY EXPLAINED with mere pre-Islamic knowledge.
So, the deduction may be that Quran just plagiarizes the pre-Islamic knowledge.
The great example for me is the matter of Quranic embryology, which seems to plagiarize pre-Islamic Gallen.
Tho', Muh'd could be uneducated, but HE KNEW HARITH IBN KALADA - the graduate of medical school in Jundishapur!!!
Now let you argue that Muh'd never talked with him :-).
sylweg 3 months ago
cont'd
About Q57.25 'we sent iron'. It is just affirmative claim, which doesn't state nor 'all the iron', nor 'the iron which you possess', etc.
But I give you here a point.
This what i had aimed is to express that both iron obtained from meteorites was known to different people in different times, between different civilisations, & oftenly was interpeted as of divinely origin.
In this context the Q57.25 gives no novum to the matter.
Really, Muhammad could here express just common belief.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg finally the miracle of the Quran isnt only to speak about something that we just discoverd now, you ignore that the Quran is a linguistical miracle in Arabic, this miracle was adressed especially to the Arabs at that period which were the strongest that the humanity got in term of poetry. The miracles you're talking about are scientific or could be not, when ones hears that iron descend from the sky, even if he knows it, one asks this question : but who did ? this is intelligence.
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Well, maybe here actually is the biggest difference between us -
when I read Quran, I find it as of a mere human origin.
You of course would disagree with me here, but nor Quranic poetry, nor the text itself may be proof for divine origin for me,
for I see sublime poetry written in many languages - Greek, English, Polish,
& I ask: if Shakespeare or Kochanowski could write a great pieces of poetry, so why Arabic people could be unable?
Of course Arabic people could do the same.
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg
of course, there should be:
'if Shakespeare or Kochanowski CAN WRITE a great pieces of poetry, so why Arabic people could be unable?'.
sylweg 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sylweg "Well, maybe here actually is the biggest difference between us -when I read Quran, I find it as of a mere human origin."
You speak arabic ? I dont think so (look at the first video you would understand).
You talked about common knowledge, this was common knowledge too ? :
"He has let loose the two seas, converging together, with a barrier between them they do not break through. (Qur'an, 55:19-20)"
tell me from which "Human origin" this comes from, and sources not your suggestions.
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Well, the Q55.19-20 gives vague explanations what the 'two seas' mean.
According to Yusuf Ali's commentary, the matter means the salt water of sea & fresh water or river in its mouth - they become separate, though flowing at each other.
If it is the case, so I am quite sure that it is observable for example at the mouth of Nile or Euphrates.
The Nabataean trading tribes could know easily about it.
However, I would like to know what is the matter with it according to you.
Greetings.
sylweg1 3 months ago
@sylweg1 Cousteau discovered it my friend :) , I think you should search about it carefully, it's clearly explained no need to come with suppositions again : What Cousteau and his crew are referring to is the massive amount of underwater springs. The water is lighter there and the pressure and salt from the other body keeps it from mixing with the rest. Like putting oil on regular water. Therefore the entire ocean does not mix.
Now how did it get into the Quran?
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
I see, I have underrated the Muslim will to find ANYTHING what could agree Quran with science.
So, what is in Q55.19-22 that it convinces you towards the 'Cousteau' explanation? Is there eg. any 'depth' mentioned?
Let's analyze what your Quran 55.19-22 covers:
1. two seas (or rather reservoirs),
2. between them is a barrier which they cannot pass,
3. in both are pearls & coral coming from.
Well, no 'depth', nor any additional claims.
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg About the seas : ftm Cousteau's is had found only one, and he was surprised that such thing existed.
"Well, the 3 ANSWERS WHERE KNOWN TO SEMITES LONG BEFORE MUHAMMAD!" The normal person base his beliefs, Mr the scientific, not on suppositions, especially when you accuse someone of bein in error, you will only end ashaming yourself by such a level of claims.
The fact here is that you have no answer thus you concoct pleasant imaginary answer for you.
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Please, let you explain me here:
what is in Q55.19-22 what distracts you from my proposition, which describes:
1. two seas: Mediterranean & Red,
2. between them is a barrier - Sinai,
3. in both are pearls & corals?
My proposition PERFECTLY FULFILLS The Quran 55.19-22.
It is not imaginary, lady - it is just basic knowledge of geography & maritime biology.
Sorry, but your claims show me that Muslims can put anything to excuse their Quran.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg " two seas: Mediterranean & Red,"
??? Mister I think you're drunk because we see nowhere in the verses where you could even SUPPOSE, like you to do it, which can make say this. We don't make suppositions in Islam, we have to study it, the language, the context of revelation, so we can make a claim. Something that seems unknown to a "specialist" of Islam.
You're just the typical ignorant anti-islam troll on youtube that's all. I've shown to viewers your mistakes and lies.
Peace
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
naik is a liar, manipulator
islam is for gullible pigs like you
and mohamed the pedophiule fucking a dead woman
as for that moon allah, fuck him in the ass
sjdffhefvthftefcetsj 2 months ago
sylweg 2 months ago
sylweg 2 months ago
@Domna7
sylweg 2 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
So. the above suggests that you can put to Q55.19-22 much more explanations that just this 'Cousteau's' one, isn't?
Now, emagine that both Mediterranean Sea & Red Sea FULFILL the 3 Quranic conditions:
Ad1. both are seas,
Ad2. between them is a barrier - Sinai Peninsula,
Ad3. in both are corals & pearls.
Well, the 3 ANSWERS WHERE KNOWN TO SEMITES LONG BEFORE MUHAMMAD!
Now, the answers are obvious, but you have not wanted even to make the effort to find them.
Greetings.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg well that just shows that you have no answer thus, for the moment if you want till they discover your answer hh, this verses had disproven your claims.
--> I only see a normal knowledge in this book.
I only gave you one example...
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Well, my proposition (of Mediterranean & Red Seas) still perfectly matches with Quran 55.19-22.
I have checked every Arabic word in these verses, so I'm quite sure, that I have given you the easiest explanation of your Quranic 'miracle', which Semites easily had knew from long before Muhammad.
sylweg 3 months ago
@Domna7
I have to admit here that I should consult a tafsir first before I committed my claim about Med Sea - Sinai - Red.
For Tafsir al-Jalalayn claims about Q55.19:
'He has loosed the two waters, the sweet and the salty; [and so] they meet, in the perception of the eye.'
As you see, You have ignored as well the Muslim Tafsir's tradition in favor of your 'Cousteau's' explanation.
:-))) .
sylweg 2 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
Well, the Arabic word 'al-baHrayn' = 'two seas' exists in both verses: Q55.19 & Q25.53,
but in the Q25.53 it is precised that these are fresh & salty water.
For Quran sometimes REPEATS a few times the same stories,
so Tafsir al-Jalalayn may be right for Q55.19 - at least you cannot refuse such claim.
So, then:
'al-baHrayn' is also known as a historical name for Arabia's eastern coast, but today the name is reserved only for state of Bahrain (in Arabic 'al-baHrayn').
tbc.
sylweg 2 months ago
sylweg 2 months ago
sylweg 2 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
Now, you can see that your Cousteau's experience is completely UNNECESSARY for Q55.19!!!
We are absolutely entitled here to appeal to Muhammad's contemporary Arabs' own experiences & legends.
I greet you.
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg All what you said about the verse Q55.19, doesnt explains how Muhammad, an illetrate man, could have known that 2 SEAS (not rivers and seas) could meet in the place and dont mix together. That's why Cousteau and normal human being with a sane mind, find it amazing... You just fail to prove that in the 7th century it was common knowledge whereas arabs were very few to know about navigation....
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
Web 'islamicity(dot)com':
'
Later, we see him [Muhammad] ... at least once in the country of the 'Abd al-Qais (Bahrain-Oman) [!!!!!!!!!!!!], as mentioned by Ibn Hanbal.
There is every reason to believe that this refers to the great fair of Daba (Oman), where,
according to Ibn al-Kalbi (cf. Ibn Habib, Muhabbar),
the traders of China, of Hind and Sind (India, Pakistan), of Persia, of the East and the West assembled every year, traveling both by land and sea.
'
tbc
sylweg 2 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
This 'Daba' is situated in modern UAE/Oman, & is known as Dibba, too.
Well, Domna7, Muhammad could easily know about 'al-bahrayn' = 'two seas' fenomenon directly from tribe of 'Abd al-Qais :-))) .
----
Well, when I'm talking with Muslims, often I feel as only one to defend THE FACT that Muhammad was intelligent.
Even your own islamic e-sites claim that Muhammad participated in caravans/trade as far as Syria, Yemen, or maybe even Oman.
tbc
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg And my friend you have a flaw in your thinking : you base your proofs on Islamic History (and only what does fit you in some cases...), and you seem to forget that even his worse enemies testified of the fact that he was...illiterate. So an illiterate person just have to travel to speak about embryology, cosmology, the composition of an ant ! (glass, yes sir), etc...So its too much for an illiterate person to know about all this. And about christianity and judaism hh, I will tell you.
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
Welcome,
1. Let you consider: I have written that Muhammad was intelligent,
however the word 'intelligent' doesn't necessarily mean 'literate'.
Muhammad could get much of Quranic claims easily from other people in his trade travels, from some of his companions, & from his contemporary Jewish & Christian inhabitants of Arabia.
Illiteracy doesn't mean that Muhammad couldn't hear about the matters, right?
Of course, I don't suspect much Muhammad's knowledge here & in fact
(tbc.)
sylweg 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sylweg "Muhammad could get much of Quranic claims easily from other people in his trade travels"
The most knowledgeable person at that time was ibn al harith bin kalada, a physician Jew, that converted to Islam, and sorry, sources shows that all what you are pointing out to, is mere speculations. What you should post when refuting something is posts, especially accusations, is PROOFS. But you will not find out a single one towards your way you want it to be.
Domna7 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd 1.
& in fact we rarely find much of contemporaries' knowledge in Quran.
To show you an example:
Q13.2 claims that '...sun and the moon, each pursuing an appointed course'.
The text doesn't mention about Ptolemy's 'epicycles', but mention the movement of the Sun, which was postulated by Ptolemy.
However, it is easier to claim that Muhammad simply looked sometimes to the sky & saw the movement of the Sun,
hence the reflection in the Quran.
tbc.
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg What you say about the myth of the prophet taking knowledge, despite being illiterate, is too much imagination my friend. he wasnt known for being for science lool, in the 7th century despite him traveling, it's impossible to know all that. Plus not only you accuse of having taken from Greek, but he also did took only what is correct : Ptolemaic system makes the earth in the center and sun moves...The Quran says all moves :)
Domna7 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd 1.
However, modern Muslims try to go after Bucaille, & claim that Quran mentions Sun's orbit arout the gravitational centre of the Milky Way (!!!).
What convinces you to the Bucaille's claim more than to the easiest I've mentioned?????
So, you can see here your Quranic 'cosmology' as simple eloquence of Islam's apologists.
tbc.
sylweg 1 month ago
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg "Quran PLAGIARIZES pre-Islamic GALEN. "
Wrong you're just repeating what You read in islamophobic sites. What they do is make it seems that Quran makes the bones creation before the muscles and that's false. there is no enumeration : "touma" in arabic inst "fa"...They are made approx in the same time.
Here have fun : watch?v=mmqlodiEFsg&feature=related
here his book fully responding to your false understanding of embryology in the Quran : hamzatzortzis(dot)com/?page_id=61
Domna7 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd 2.
the matter is that bones & muscles develop more or less simultaneously, however Quran prefers Galen's sharp description than modern scientific.
The link between Galen & Muhammad is Harith ibn Kalada - the graduate of medical academy in Jundishapur.
Astonishing, isn't?
Galen claimed that his knowledge comes from 'abortions & dissections'.
When you do insist that Quran's embryology is from Allah, I can only conclude, that Allah had to rely upon abortions & disections.
:-)))
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg Imagine a man, in his 40, wealthy, having all he desires, deciding on tricking people, and inventing a sect of christianism : he upsets his tribe, his first follower are a woman, a child and an old man...His tribe offers him to be a king, never in history tolerated to be ruled but they did made an exception for him, and offers him, women, wealth everything someone desires in this world...an impostor would have accepted. He didn't.
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
I think I have read enough about Muhammad to be astonished that when on the one hand he presents some virtues,
on the other side we can find him blood-thirsty tyrant - exactly I mean the massacre & sex-slavery upon Jews in Khaybar.
Then I see Muhammad's followers in Hamas, Hesbollah, Taliban & many others,
who DESIRE THE SECOND KHAYBAR.
& I stop to believe that Islam is peaceful, good, tolerant, etc.
& what about murdering apostates from Islam? etc.
It's simple Domna.
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg "Jews in Khaybar"
Yeah the myth of Muhammad being the villain again and the poor Jews innocents, like nowadays that's it ? Tell me why did the Jews paid tribes and broke treaty of peace with muslims, to attack muslims ? Didnt you know that they were sentenced by their own kind a Jew, and with their law in the Torah whoever did treason, its the decapitation...But of course Muhammad is blood thirsty ...
Domna7 1 month ago
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg Not only he did upsets his tribes being with almost no one and threatened of death, he says : Jesus is a messenger like him and not a man, the trinity is an alteration to the previous message to the jews. The christians are happy to hear that you think ? this impostor don't seem intelligent in fact, if we follow your logic. Then the Jews : what do you know the Jew says about Jesus ? a b******, his mother a ...The Quran defends Jesus and Mary against such things.
Sir honestly, tell me
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
If follow your logic, so I personally must be stupid guy, too, for:
1. I risk my life showing Muslim ignorance - I have already got some threats from Muslims,
2. if i converted to Islam, I could maybe get some money for it,
3. I could make a carrier as a voice of minority (eg. Barack Obama based upon his Muslim ancestry),
4. I could get visa & free trip to Mecca (!!!),
5. etc.
What a freak I am that I show you that Quran plagiarizes Galen's embryology!!!!!
:-)))
tbc.
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd
The above are only examples where Muhammad had sources of his infos.
So, it is enough to consider that Muhammad had just plagiarized many of the infos into Quran.
---
Still, you have not to look for Cousteau to explain Q55.19.
It is simply enough to look to Q25.53 what Muhammad meant about the word 'al-baHrayn'.
In Q25.53 is stated that one of the 'seas' HAS SWEET WATER but another HAS SALTY WATER.
Could you at all show me which sea is not salty?
tbc
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg you think this is the logical way of thinking and handling situations like this, of an impostor ? to put all the tribes and nations against him, just like that, while he were known even among his enemies al amine, the trustful one, rich, etc... ? there is only one answer to all this : he was motivated by the message he carried and it was true enough to risk everything for it as well the first Muslims for it. Accept the truth, its good for you.
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
Well, I was not living with Muhammad to be convinced what actually motivated him, for theories may differ.
For example, Muhammad being orphan could have a heart for orphans, etc. Such psychological reactions are known quite well.
---
However, returning to your claim that 'al-baHrayn' = 'two seas' - well, there is no known fresh water sea in the planet, so or you should stop insisting it for Q55.19, or you should admit that Q25.53 has false statement.
Greetings
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg about the rest I already did responded clearly, and you are providing no evidence to what you want to proves. Mere speculations. I let people judging.
For this video here is the response of a brother that refuted well his mistakes :
watch?v=BQOYV_aA2AM&feature=related
Domna7 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd
or maybe you are going to insist
that though in Q55.19 the 'al-baHrayn' has to mean 'two seas', but in Q25.53 THE SAME WORD 'al-baHrayn' should mean anything other?
At least the propaganda e-site which you have proposed to me makes such differentiation.
But in Q55.19 & Q25.53 there is EXACTLY THE SAME WORD 'al-baHrayn'.
---
The island of Bahrain is divided from mainland just about 10-30 km wide strait.
The dwellers of the island always knew how to sail (for last 5000 years).
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg About Maurice Bucaille you just don't know what you're talking about. He did become Muslim after discovering the miracle of the corpse of the the pharaoh of Moses story, being non-mummified and completely conservated. He was the leading doctor proceeding to the analyse of the corpse. So he wasn't anybody saying anything for money, he was already famous, rich unlike you. Stop lying to yourself and expose the truth. You're only unfair to yourself.People can live without you you know.
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
'Stop lying to yourself and expose the truth. You're only unfair to yourself.People can live without you';
Our discuss started when you accused me of misunderstanding of the verb 'daHahaa' from Q79.30;
Actually, I have presented you claims taken from 'Tafsir al-Jalalayn' (as in altafsir.com), Lane, Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Buczacki,
which OBVIOUSLY CONTRADICT your 'egg claim'.
By insisting that I lie here you just make them liars,too, isn't?
tbc.
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg I already explained for the word dahaaha that we dont explain the Quran solely on the words of a man, even if he is amongst one of the famous moufassirines of Quran, he can be wrong, and the Quran is read in Arabic sir not in English.
Did you read all the meaning of the word Dahaaha ? you will say oh yes i know everything about islam, of course...
What is the origin of the word dawh from which derive the word ?...
TRY RESPONDING TO THIS if you'rent a lier that obscures the truth.
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
well, I thank altafsir.com for its translation of tafsirs to English.
There is evidently written for 'daHahaa' in Q79.30:
'and after that He spread out the earth:
He made it flat, for it had been created before the heaven, but without having been spread out;'
I showed you William Lane's description, but you laughed me out.
Now, you have to excuse yourself, why you did it, despite altafsir.com simply translates THE SAME way as Lane's 'Arabic-English Lexicon'.
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domna
cont'd
I see the matter similarly in other matters about your claims stated here about Islam.
Now, of course almost all people in the planet nor need me nor know me,
but what should I do when you have presented me some Muslim propaganda claims being in obvious contradiction to my sources?
Should I be aside when these propagandists or liars palm people off with these claims just to convert them?
IF YOU BELIEVE IN TRUTH START TO INVESTIGATE YOUR OWN BELIEFS. Dont stop with propaganda.
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg One last thing : he did traveled and picked all the non erronous knowledge from greek etc (and surprisingly not one erronous one). How did know about pharaoh of Moses, and that we will find him non mumified and preserved ? in sourat roum (the romans), how did the prophete know after his death that the roman will achieve victory after defeat on persians even being weak ? ...he did travel in time ? hhhh
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
mohamed went to heaven on a flying horse??
haha, you gullible pigshit
sjdffhefvthftefcetsj 2 months ago
@sjdffhefvthftefcetsj "mohamed went to heaven on a flying horse??"
Its not heaven ignorant one, you're just humiliating yourself. Begin cleaning your own door and with your pedophile priests, rapes and incests ravaging your countries will you.
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
Well, it's Muslim myth that Quran is 'non erronous'.
The problem is that most of Quranic claims is enough short & vague that these are easy to be manipulated.
The example is the word 'al-baHrayn' which I showed you already.
You insist that it must be 'two seas', when in other verses is written that one of the 'two seas' has 'sweet fresh' water.
For there is no 'sweet fresh' sea in the planet, so Muslims insist that it has to mean 'river', but not 'sea'.
Examples are numerous.
tbc.
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd
About Moses, pharaoh, & 'the romans' I have not any reliable knowledge, so I have to look for it first.
I'm simply afraid that you're going to claim your 'miracle' after 'miracle' when I simply have not enough time for investigation.
However, as my excuse here I remind you the two examples how Muslim manipulate meaning of your 'miracles' - the one is the 'al-baHrayn',
the other is Quranic embryology which is quite similar to pre-Islamic Galen's :-))).
Greetings
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domna7
Of course, the matter of Mediterranean Sea & Red Sea doesn't mean to be the only proposition :-))) .
However, I'm really interested where is written the statement described by you as Cousteau's. I really would like to know it, not for any special sake,
just for I very like the Cousteau's adventure.
So, show me the link to the matter, please (thank you in advance).
Greetings.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg Read Maurice Bucaille, not as if it will convince you even if you hear it from the lips of Cousteau himself seeing how you're blind.
Btw, the verses speaks about an inter-SEAS phenomenon not between river and sea :) ...
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
Once I have found a Bucaille's book & I read some of his claims.
However, after these several descriptions of supposed Quranic 'miracles', I stopped to read it.
His book is not scientific account, but rather typical Muslim propaganda in the same sense as the Muslim e-sites you have proposed to me.
Besides, Bucaille had earned SEVERAL MILLIONS DOLLARS for the books.
So, you should ask yourself, would he earn the money if he showed historical evidences against the 'miracles'?
tbc.
sylweg 2 months ago
@Domna7
just out of curiosity, were the Bucaille's books any reasons of your conversion to Islam?
greetings.
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg Oh forgot about the bahrain fictionnal argument you referred to :
"The term appears five times in the Qu'ran, but DOES NOT refer to the modern island — originally known to the Arabs as "AWAL" — but rather to the oases of al-Katif and Hadjar (modern al-Hasa).[8] It is unclear when the term began to refer exclusively to the Awal islands, but it was probably AFTER the 15th century."
Stop clinging to suppositions, not one mufassir had pointed to the Awal region (bahrain today).
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
Well,
According to Mahdí Abdalla Al-Tajir in his book
'Language and linguistic origins in Bahrain ...' on pages 15-16:
'
... it is necessary to remember that medieval Arab sources treat the ancient region [of al-Bahrayn]
and its dependency, i.e., the island of Awal [modern Kingdom of Bahrain], as ONE ENTITY.
... prior to Islam and after its advent, Bahrain embraced the coastal line of Eastern Arabia, thereby subsuming al-Qatif, al-Ahsa and the island of Awal.
'
tbc
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg You dont understand what I'm saying it seems : you said the miracle of the two seas in the Quran, could have been known from the place called Bahrain. Then you concluded--> its from there that the prophet peace be upon him known about it and put it in the Quran...So when Quran is saying the two seas its because of this you say.
But the fact is that : which two seas were originally intended remains in dispute and
Domna7 2 months ago
@sylweg in the official wiki page of Bahrain country, we could read this and further more : "It is unclear when the term began to refer exclusively to the Awal islands, but it was probably AFTER the 15th century."
Encyclopedia of Islam, Vol. I. "Bahrayn", p. 941. E.J. Brill (Leiden), 1960.
If you have some hidden knowledge about their own history, they don't know, feel free to illuminate them by sharing your pieces of knowledge :) ...
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
Well, wikipedia is not reliable (everyone can write an article) source, tho' it is useful.
In your wikipedia you can find exactly opposite claim to yours, too.
I don't possess the 'Encyclopedia...' you mention, but certainly you cite the link LETTER AFTER LETTER from wikipedia, so I believe you haven't check it personally.
My source I shown you - Dr Mahdi Abdalla Al-Tajir's 'Language...' edited in 1982,
- you can easily find it between google's book. Let you read it & compare.
tbc
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd
Dr Al-Tajir's 'Language...' treats primarily about Baharnah dialect of Arabic,
but he also explains the historical context of modern Bahrain.
His book is also enlisted in 'Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society' (April 1983 115 : pp 290-290)
where it is described as '...a book that is both valuable & interesting'.
As you see, my source is no 'hidden knowledge', & you could easily find it, too, only if you was not so stubborn against me.
Greetings
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg But even so, your suppositions aren't proofs, all that doesn't explain how he could have known that there is a [barrier] between the 2 : "It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuarie is a "pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers." {Oceanography, Gross, p.242. Also see Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp. 300-301 ; Oceanography, Gross, p. 244 and Introductory Oceanography, Thurman, pp.300-301}"
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
Have you read, at all, what these authors REALLY wrote?, or you simply click & paste from your Muslim e-sites?
You haven't enlisted 'Principles of Oceanography' by Richard Davis,
who is notoriously mentioned by your Muslim e-sites as confirmation for your 'barrier' in Q55.19.
Now, let you look what Davis really writes. It is publish as a scan at page 7 here:
'scribd(dot)com/doc/41471077/Refuting-Debunking-the-claim-that-the-meeting-of-two-seas-in-quran-is-scientific'
tbc
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg I saw your link, I saw an error : "The apologists are generalizing the very special case of the Strait of Gibraltar and claiming that whenever two seas meet, there is a barrier between them"
Does the verse says it's the case everywhere ? Show me then. I agree with you on this but If some Muslims did, well it's their own mistake.
“He has set free THE two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress.” (Quran 55:19-20)
Read well next time.
Domna7 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd
So, when your beloved e-sites claim that according to Davis there is a 'barrier [which] divides the to seas...',
Davis, actually, claims something different:
'...Gibraltar sill serves as a PARTIAL BARRIER, restricting circulation & mixing',
however the water of Med Sea STILL '...moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic...'
So, Med Sea TRANSGRESS the BARRIER of Gibraltar Sill (!!!).
But wait, Q55.19 claims opposite, that Med Sea doesn't transgress the barrier.
tbc
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domn
cont'd
Now, you should be puzzled - is the Davis's 'barrier' the same barrier as in Q55.19?
If you believe in trustworthiness of Quran you have only one way here - you have to admit that the Muslim e-sites HAVE DISTORTED THE MEANING of Davis's book.
Hence, it is example why I cannot believe your Muslim propaganda e-sites.
The worst issue here is that Muslims mostly don't bother to verify their sources.
You're simply another Muslim who don't bother to investigate your own claims.
tbc
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd
'
Although Yaqut discusses the island of Awal in a separate entry under the appropriate alphabetical order, yet he treats it as a part of the old region [of al-Bahrayn].
In his account of Bahrain not only does he mention specific places on the island of Awal but the inhabitants of those places as well.
'
As you see
according to him claiming that modern Bahrain was not part of historical al-Bahrayn is like claim that Long Island is not in America for Long Island has own name :-)
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg So its not something that you can observe with naked eye, so you can claim there is a barrier.
Yes Muhammad did travel to the cham region (Irak Syria etc nowadays), but does it proves that he had discovered what you had said in his travels ? If so, the meccans wanted to kill him, would they not point out his tricks easily why did they not ? remember to read well the wiki page of bahrain country.
TBC
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
I have shown you claims according to Dr Mahdi Abdalla Al-Tajir's 'Language...' about Bahrain.
I don't think that your wikipedia is more believable than Dr Al-Tajir.
Besides, Q55.19 is still vague to b convinced what actually it means.
Muhammad was in trade since he was a child - for about 30 years before his 'prophethood'.
He was many times in Syria & Yemen & at least once in Eastern Arabia. The territories were under influence of Persia, Bizantium & Ethiopia.
tbc
sylweg 1 month ago
@sylweg I dont believe in wiki either, but it's the official page of the gov of bahrain, not anybody write there, so I do trust them about their history more than your tajir, my christian friend :)
"He was many times in Syria & Yemen & at least once in Eastern Arabia"
yes and so ? Can you give one good sources about Muhammad being accused at that time of repeating something they did already know ? Thank you :)
Domna7 1 month ago
@Domna7
cont'd
So for 30 years of his life he saw & heard & maybe talked about different issues. Also, he met very different people, too.
If I told you anything what is known somewhere in the West & insisted it is knowledge from the God, you would surely laughed me out claiming that it cannot be any proof for you.
But when I try to show you that Quran is not so miraculous, as you believe, for 30 years of travelling for trade is enough to know something, you turn away claiming I'm wrong.
sylweg 1 month ago
@Domna7
mohamed was a fake prophet, the pedophile thief rapist murderer.
fuyck mohamed and fuck islam the religion for retards
if there is allah, how come he cannot defeat the jews? huh? fuck you and fuck allah
sjdffhefvthftefcetsj 2 months ago
@sjdffhefvthftefcetsj If he was a false prophet, how come many people today convert to islam though islam is in maybe his worst era ? your very own people convert willingly why ? then if he was a pedophile, how come its not Muslims aren't, and dont makes the news in papers like your priests...how come he cannot defeat the Jews ? the zionist were already beaten at his time because of their treachery, and today what made them strong is our deviation from our religion but things are changing...
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
mohamed was a false prophet. today there are still muslims, cos they are not allowed to leave, the penalty is death. and tey were all forced into islam at birth. besides hope of 72 virgins is one of the reason for muslims to be stucked in this stupid cult. yeah, allah cannot defeat the jewes and now he blame it on the muslims. what a joke. please leave islam and join humanity again
muhamadick 2 months ago
@muhamadick you're full of ignorance, for example the 72 virgins is a christian belief not a Muslim belief...Please educate yourself and stop playing at the western illuminated man that knows all and dictates the how to live, when they have shits till their necks in their own country which they cant solve till now...
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
if you read the hadith, its written 72 virgins for every muslim men.
even the quran mentioned, there are black eyed virgins with big boobs and pointy ones
fuck you stupid islam, the sex cult
sjdffhefvthftefcetsj 2 months ago
@sjdffhefvthftefcetsj "if you read the hadith, its written 72 virgins for every muslim men."
show me the hadth with its sources then :)
"even the quran mentioned, there are black eyed virgins with big boobs and pointy ones"
black eyed yes its mentionned (I enjoy beauty ^^). but big boobs well I think you watch too much porn that makes you applying your perverse imagination into imagining "things" in Islam...
Domna7 2 months ago
@Domna7
why can't allah defeat the jews?
why is israel still standing and kicking allah's soldiers??
stupid pig allah is a useless motherfucker. i know allah has a 2 inch penis
and love to fuck 6 yr old girl like pedophile mohamed
sjdffhefvthftefcetsj 2 months ago
@sjdffhefvthftefcetsj "why can't allah defeat the jews?"
Where did you see they won ? they could destroy masjid al aqsa ? makka ? they are already having a hard tome controling a tiny little territory like palestine that they robbed (askhenazis arent jews).
"why is israel still standing and kicking allah's soldiers??"
Like when they pissed their pants in Liban in 2006 hhhhh, you seem to not knowing the truth.
about the pedophilia thats a myth, vehiculated by islamophobes, for sheeps like u
Domna7 2 months ago
I don't remember, has Bucaille written it or not,
but another bit of Quranic 'miraculous science' is the claim that when man would dive enough deep in sea, so he can't see own hands for there is so dark.
But imagine what I've found:
1. divers claim that visibility in the sea is up to 30m depth, sometimes less;
2. the best pearl-divers dive up to 40m, though it may be harmful;
3. Bahrain was always famous for its pearls;
4. Persian Gulf is up to 90m deep.
Well, another Quranic 'miracle' debunked
sylweg 2 months ago
@sylweg1 Cousteau : "We studied the assertions by certain researchers about barriers separating seas, and noticed that the Mediterranean Sea had its own salinity and density and housed autochthonous fauna and flora. Then we examined the water of the Atlantic Ocean and discovered features entirely different from those of the Mediterranean Sea. According to our expectations,
Domna7 3 months ago
@sylweg1 these two seas that merged in the strait of Gibraltar should present similar characteristics in terms of salinity, density and other properties. The two seas presented different features even though they were adjacent. This greatly puzzled us. An incredible barrier prevented the two seas from coming together. The same sort of a barrier had also been observed in Bab Al-Mandab in the Gulf of Aden connecting with the Red Sea."
Domna7 3 months ago
@Domna7
cont'd
& when I find in Quran any 'miraculous' claim, which I know, was known (in different ways) by pre-Islamic people,
so it cannot be proof of divinely origin of Quran, too.
& it is obvious conclusion of the REASON - the very important part of INTELLIGENCE.
tbc.
sylweg 3 months ago
@sylweg For what Quran, listen carefully to this : watch?v=RTSixvpQhiY
For what I was talking about God being the uncaused and creator of this universe leaving no doubt when we study carefully the universe and its laws : watch?v=kOdQv4pSaUc&list=PLE47D82FB669F391E&index=1
Domna7 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Domna7
I will see it soon and will write my opinion about it.
sylweg1 3 months ago