Rowing Training Australian Pair 2007

[costi171]

O RLY ?

[costi171]

Imagine the guy filming ! Truly impressive! One hand on the blade and one on the camera.

[EvanEatsPie]

@costi171 He's in a launch ( not rowing )

[EvanEatsPie]

@costi171 retard...

[MitchDigney]

This beats the Tamar river by far :(

[MitchDigney]

@MitchDigney Not to mention my rowing :P

[theSculler]

Looks like if they stopped rowing the boat would still go on running forever :^)

[rowerdude2]

Quality bro

[nateo200]

What awesome form. Drew Ginn is quite the rower. Wonderful finishes! Love it! Allot of the guys I row with have great finishes like this but can't get out nearly as perfectly timely as these guys. Front slide is so controlled, so sooo vital!

[nikond90prophoto]

In January, we did a few sessions with the power-band in the 4.. It's Incredible that you can keep the balance and a fair bit of run with the bloody thing on. Let alone steering... I have to say also, it's as if we're watching an old video of Drew in the '96 four, the technique is still very powerful and stable. Not to mention the visor still firm on the head haha

[the18onethatidid]

wonderin why this has some many views compare to other

[dermotbear]

I take your point datapk but they at low rate at the start of the clip. As you'll know the pair is the most unstable boat in all rowing and sculling, and is very prone to unbalance at the catch in any circumstance - thus there is always a slight hesitance around the blade entry. The bursts after about 3 min have got textbook 'V' splashes when they up the rate and the hands are coming up nicely. That said this is clearly an 'early season' outing as there are a couple of quirks - quick anyway

[datapk]

haha no.. im at the best rowing school in South Africa.. I think I would know what I am talking about. Have you ever rowed in your life before? clearly you havent

[bjbjbzz]

@datapk South african rowing isn't something to brag about. And these guys Have such great technique that you couldn't ever dream on critiquing them. And you don't necessarily need backsplash to negate missing water. Also If you look, their finishes are so clean and defined that their bow has such a horizontal drive. Too much lean back causes the bow to dive into the water, makign you slow.

[anthonymeyza]

@datapk There is just so much wrong with your opinion.. Firstly these guys are olympians, how can being part of a top rowing school in a bottom rowing country compare to that. Secondly I've spent half of my rowing career in South Africa and the other half in England where the rowing is at least ten times better. I've even been to visit a few Australian clubs on training camps and let me tell you, no club in South Africa could compare to them.

[srsly101]

@datapk because south african schools are at olympic standard and all. oh wait. they've only had one boat competitive in the last 10 years at olympic level.

[datapk]

they arent raising their hands into the catch.. they miss bout 10cm on each stroke, you should see a small backsplash on each catch

[fitnessfirst02]

@datapk hahahahhaha your an idiot

[crewd00d]

@datapk you're an idiot, they have multiple olympic gold medals for rowing. No one cares if you row in a school in South Africa...

[datapk]

they arent raising their hands into the catch.. they miss bout 10cm on each stroke

[robinfisichella]

it looks as though they have a slightly different technique to getting the catch, stroke seems more smooth but is overeaching with the outside shoulder maybe? Bow drops it in maybe a little late? Which is better i never know...

[alemeno]

so beast

[cvansan]

Looks like they have a bungee or something on there?

[bpavspitcha33]

@cvansan

[bpavspitcha33]

@cvansan it's a resistance hose. it creates more drag. then when it is taken off, the boat feels a lot lighter

[jamesdstudent]

Hi Tom,

almost finshed just snowed with work...

Give me a few days, but we're almost there. Hope what I have writtenso far makes sense.

Cheers

James

[jamesdstudent]

2nd thing of the two things:The pitch of the bow of the boat the boat goes up a little an stays up. And then goes up even further - actually quite dramatically in this vid - as it's a pair and given the oarsman equate for Mmmmm..... more than than 2/3rd's of the System's culminative mass, moving that mass to the stern is always going to pitch up the nose. Same applies for all shells, it's just more prominent in the smaller shells.

[jamesdstudent]

In this video at abotu 2.36 mins have a look at the bow of the boat at the finish and the recovery phase. Two things: It does not dive like a sub because Drew and Duncan's body positions' are set. So many oarsman at all levels 'slump' at that finish. Why? bad coaching, weak abs, gate height to low, not enough -ve angle of the blade at finish and a few hundered other reasons but they are the main ones. It's not Brain Science or Rocket Surgery to work out that you don't want to be a submarine...

[jamesdstudent]

if you try and move a brick on the same table.

Okay, time to row. When we use the word 'System' we mean the boat, oars, riggers, crew cox, everything we are trying to get over the line first. So that's the link back to the discussion about technique: how does a sub-set ( the individual) of the System affect the performance of the System. And to drill deeper a subset of the individual - in this case - the mass from their hips up and at what time they move in the recovery phase.

[jamesdstudent]

the next thing is how much the tennis ball 'weighed'. Please just drop that word, go for "the mass of the tennis ball or better yet how light or heavy the ball is". The third thing is the friction between the tennis ball and the surface the it is resting upon, in this case a flat table perpendicular to gravity. Because it's a ball and it's relatively light ( to a brick...) the net external force you applied to the ball to make it move would have been small. Work out in your head the difference

[jamesdstudent]

In Newton's words, our tennis ball will only start moving when "...acted on by a net external force...". We tap the ball it starts rolling. So every body has inertia whether it's moving or not. But just how hard did you have to push the tennis ball to make it move?

It depends on 3 things: Before we pushed it it was not moving. As opposed to trying to stop a tennis ball thrown at you (go back to the formula: F=ma)

[jamesdstudent]

( And for those clever ones out there yes, it's all relative to the P of Earth. So, relative to the Sun your current P = your body mass - not weight - x about 30km/sec. Thank Eienstein for working out the theory of relativity). Weight is measured in Newtons. Just forget weight unless you intend to row on another planet, or dark string, etc okay?

[jamesdstudent]

Whoops.. Example: There is a tennis ball on a flat table and it is still. Therefore it has no P because v = 0, so P = mx0=> P=0, Think of P as a property of a moving body. No movement, no P.

[jamesdstudent]

3 Golds out of three Games. Not bad?

I guess I should explain things properly since you asked. The first thing you need to understand as 2nd nature (I'm not saying that you don't already), are a few physics concepts in Biomechanics, Mechanical vectors and statics and fluid dynamics.

The first is the difference between Momentum and inertia.

[jamesdstudent]

Sure no problem.

But just let me be clear on etiquette on this thread. Yes the internet is terrible for forums. People taking personal shots, etc. You've all been there and there are some pretty bad posts in this thread.

That's why I stopped typing. This is Rowing, a highly competitive and friendly community. There will always be disagreements but people - most of the time - have the sense to keep it to themselves. Further, we're talking about a mate of mine (with 3 x Olymipic golds).

[jamesdstudent]

I was coached by James and rowed with drew. The 4 was all from Vic. Duncan was not. Recovery in a pair ( or 1x) is different to faster shells. If you get you hands away to quickly there is a 'double acceleration' of the hull. But not the system as a whole. Changes in acceleration use up energy / work against momentum. So, for the pair, let the boat run at it's fastest point, use the platform for a very smooth pull up the slide. Rocking your body over then pausing causes the inertia of the oarsm

[tomwei80]

@jamesdstudent

Can you finish your comment please? I was interested in what you were saying.

[Demagogue8990]

Beautiful run & set!

[2TheGuy2]

i feel like the arms away has a pause

[flybutter51]

it looks like they also have a boat strap on which could be affecting their stroke slightly

[ihrtmusic12334]

it doesn't really matter where the recovery is slow, whether its in the beginning or evenly distributed, as long as the boat moves with a powerful stroke. I mean, this is damn beautiful rowing, and anyone who says that they should do something different should understand that they are Olympic rowers, and row faster than most people in the world.

[russiaDule93]

@ihrtmusic12334 thrue, I am rowing, and this is a beautifull technique vote up for you :)))

[CamelxXxYogurt]

@ihrtmusic12334 Well the slide is supposed to be slowest at the end so it doesn't upset the boat but i agree with the fact that they have very good form

[McFrosty2014]

@ihrtmusic12334 drew ginn would disagree with you on your first point

[canaris54]

Artitistry in rithm!!! the boat moves fantastically. Artists of rowing. Bravi!!

[k8lyn201]

I have Duncan Free's Signature on my rowing hat and drink bottle! haha.

[AxelPRC]

I agree that no ones stroke is perfect but these are olympic champions you should be thinking why does this work for them, maybe try it out see how it works. They have done more in rowing than you could dream of. Sure you can discuss their technique but like i said before in my first post you should dis it because it works for them and they probably know a hell of a lot more than most people about the rowing stroke

[AxelPRC]

sorry i meant shouldnt dis it

[askhams]

By having a very slight pause at the finish, they are allowing the boat to cover an extra few inches, and develop more momentum so the boat travels further and more stable throughout the recovery - the recovery of course is when the shell is moving at its fastest. I think they might square a touch earlier though...

[AxelPRC]

anyone who is trying to dis their hand speed needs to have more olympic medals than them in order for their comments to be even slightly valid. They are obviously emphasising having clean finishes and sending the boat. I dont have a problem with their hand speed it doesnt kill the rythym in the boat and the oarsome foursome did it and they won 2 olympic golds

[theSculler]

Sorry, I strongly disagree. This would mean Olaf Tufte's technique is perfect and nobody but Karppinen and Ivanov can comment about it. F&G *are* wonderful technicians, but it is legitimate to discuss their hand speed. Why not?

[AxelPRC]

Olaf Tufte's technique works doesnt it? There is no right way to row. The way he rows it what works best for him just like how Mahe or anyone of that calibur rows their own unique way especially in single sculls. And for someone to point out flaws in a couple of the best boat movers on the planet you would have to be dumb or be better than them. That hand speed sets up the rythym in their boat and it works for them so dont dispute it

[theSculler]

Look, my friend: I'm free to dispute anything as long as I don't offend anybody. Tufte (one of my heroes BTW) was an example. Progress in technique, as in anything else, is made also through discussion and the thinking of multiple brains: else we'd still be rowing like the Olympic champ of 1900. I like to watch the champs row and to discuss why they are so fast: hand speed of the aussies is a hot topic, and I'm sure *they* don't mind. I can't see why you should.

[AxelPRC]

ok then whatever but dont go saying their hand speed is too slow. Its the way they do it and it works for them. The development of technique has changed through people looking at what works and taking bits and pieces from different crews and implementing them into their own "unique" stroke

[theSculler]

Ok, ok, I will not: please don't kill me! (You would have noticed that I didn't say that, BTW, had you bothered to read my post. Sorry, I'll write in capitals next time.)

I think you and other diehard fans out there could learn a lot from the politeness and openmindedness of one Olympic champion in the single on this very same thread (thank you Xeno). But probably you didn't even notice that, you were too busy telling people what they can say and what they can't.

[AxelPRC]

your an idiot. If you dont like their hand speed dont do it yourself but dont talk about their technical flaws on youtube. What im trying to say is you dont have to row like they do. Hell i dont like the way a few elite crews row but im not going to talk about it on youtube. Just dont do what they do

[theSculler]

You unpolite kid. Read this and try hard:

I-AM-NOT-SAYING-THEY-ARE-TECHN­ICALLY-FLAWED.

And I am not trying to put things into your little brain anymore. God help you, this is my last post on this thread. Sorry mr. Ginn, for me and for the unpolite kid. It is a pleasure to watch and comment your videos anyway, and learn from them: I'm sure they are here for this and not for blind and unconscious adoration. PS tell mr. Free I am still proudly using his oars from the Cologne 1998 2x

[AxelPRC]

your ridiculous. If your not saying they are technically flawed then what the hell are you trying to say?

[theSculler]

That it is appropriate, nor rude neither blasphemous to discuss them even if they are Olympic champs. Sure their trainer does, and he's not faster than them either. Get it? Free speech. There's nothing bad in it. 18 years after retirement I'd probably still row circles around you, yet I thank you for your comments to my video. And now, as you're too far for me to get there and kick your butt for having called me an idiot, let's stay friends and watch Drew Ginn's videos in peace, shall we?

[AxelPRC]

yea whatever. You must be joking i you think you can beat me in the single.

[theSculler]

Aaaaargh! Please don't...! you already made me break my promise. Peace and fun, ok? The neanderthal thing made me laugh, although this may surprise you I had many even less intelligent comments from coaches over the years.

[AxelPRC]

wow it was an actual constructive comment because your sticking you head out towards the stern at the finish but whatever. Trust me ive seen your base speed from you clip i would beat you easy

[AxelPRC]

but whatever Peace then, I dont really care.

[Nash6925]

i havn't bothered reading this whole thing...but i get the jist

isnt it the victorian style to row with the slower finish? (these guys are in melbourne arent they?)

[AxelPRC]

yea well just look at the oarsome foursome and the current australian 4- they both do it and they both go fast. Im not from aus so i dont know about this victorian rowing thing but the oarsome foursome came from different parts of Aus and they rowed like that so i guess it doesnt matter

[Nash6925]

yeah exactly... usually quick hands is better but in the case of crews like the beijing four for instance do the same and came second so it just goes to show what works for some

[AxelPRC]

yea whatever works for you. There is no one right way to row. If they can rate in the 40's comfortably and move the boat with little check at the catch then what they are dong is fine. I just hate it when people say they are doing certain things wrong when they are actually just doing what works for them

[Nash6925]

it doesnt matter how you look in then end just how fast you can row...

[Bleedinghart]

they should do the finish quicker, and get their hands in front of their knees right away

[bazza1223345]

man, they are queenslanders.... prettyy sure they know how to row after winning an olympic gold medal

[leoliamll]

is a pair faster than a double? i remember my coaching saying a double had more blade area but i am unsure which is the quicker boat

[AxelPRC]

doubles are quicker the world best time for pair mens is 6:14 and for doubles it is 6:03

[Bo0mast1c]

double is faster than pair (:

[Jaegermeister321]

@leoliamll: double should be faster

[drclown]

hehehe i've rowed there many many times :)

[1GGY]

how come they're not releasing their arms off quickly?

[colourfulbuttons]

i think they should be getting faster arms away but rowers (particularly those who row in pairs) have a tendency to control the slide by getting slower arms away.

also it's pretty difficult to set a pair so the slower they get their arms away, and also the later they square their blades (they should be squaring earlier) the easier it is for them to set the boat.

but to improve their rowing they should be getting fast arms away and squaring their blades earlier :)

[abraskacollinlewis]

i dont agree. their arms speed is fine. when youre going 20 strokes you simply cant get your arms away like when youre going for example 30. there are two reasons. first is that every quick move on the boat is not good when youre going 20 strokes (except putting oar to the water and youre must be sure that youre not loosing power and speed in the beginning). second reason is if your getting arms away to quickly in stroke rate 20 what are you doing when youre up to 40? sorry for my english..

[froggener]

Can someone explain how the bungees are used to train in this video? Can't see them and never used them. Are they on the slide?

[gangsta463]

they are put on the hull of the boat to create extra drag for the rowers. At one point when the boat is directly behind the pair you can see it in the water when you look at the waterline at the strokes feet

[farqattack]

is bow seat digging or is that just me?

[ironoarsman]

Hello

I have been using bungees for training and coaching. I can see how the "pause" at the finish lets the boat run a little longer, which is not how I was taught... The water flares up nicely when Duncan and Drew are rowing from drive through recovery to right before the next pick up.

XENO

[nzpiggy]

askhams, I kinda agree, especially when they go to the tail view, the stroke looks a little sloppy.. but surely that is just the bungy doing that... if you watch their other videos these guys row mint.

[chilibeanking]

what happened to James Tompkins

[jorgedinis3]

damn... this is nice!

i'm acctually rowing in men's pair and this is a nice video to learn about!

congrats drew!

[askhams2]

Hey, great rowing. Love the pause at the finish, gives the drive/recovery phasrs a good ratio. Great run. But square earlier, it will give you quicker catches, and eliminate the little wobbles your having at the catch. Keep up the good work, oh and watch out for Messers Reed and Hodge...

[Damo691]

you don't tell Drew Ginn and Duncan Free when to square you fool, they are the world champions so i think they would know. They would roll your ass in a race so step back.

[askhams]

Redgrave and Pinsent were Olympic Champions in 1996, but rowed awefully. Always room to improve, and these guys need to square earlier.

[chillsesh1]

And these guys were the champs in 2006... whats ur point?

[djraimundo6]

i dont know how early you want to square, but they are doing it right on time, if you where to give a critique of technique, i would say that duncan is leaning to and over his pin and oar respectively. and drew could be a bit more consistent with blade height of the back turn

[krickon]

please send me a link of an elite international crew that squares early and won the race. In all my years of rowing I have never seen a negative post about a reigning world champion. (This is coming from a national team athlete and has been on 4 other competitive teams.)

[krickon]

lol, askhams is a novice...

[djraimundo6]

yeah, but the funny thing is, they are squaring at the exact right time!

[krickon]

askhams, this is not novice rowing...they don't need to square early. and who gives you the authority to tell a reigning world champion crew that they need to work harder.

[alexjames118]

yeah why that pause at the finish?

[kempsell]

i think they might know what they're doing though....

gotta love the ol' bungee for power strokes

[summerbabyx0x]

they were pausing a little to long at the finish, but other then that, good!

[Vanchee0von0penrith]

1:39-1:40 was the best bit.

[Darek1959]

Ghłopaki, myślę, że osiągneliście perfekcję w jeździe na 2-.

Pozdrowienia z Polski.

[rilel662]

nice run even with the bungy

[patrickrea2008]

holy shit theyre fgast i was like these guys arent so fast then i see the bungee haha

[FreakDLrowing]

damn fast

[edwardchodge]

Good luck this year guys, Drew can you tell Duncs Hodgie said hello!!