#41 Merry CHRISTmas to Jehovah's Witnesses! Quick Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses

[deanshero1]

the Witnesses don't celebrate life. They celebrate death. They dont go to birthday parties but have no bones about attending a funeral. Even the memorial of Christ's death. They don't care about the miracle of his birth OR resurrection.

[OoMostHighoO]

@Evidanceministri ha hah, okay!!. Season should be a better illustratio, Sheperds cannot "Live outside" or any human that is on winter, he would have to turn into ice. Hard to say what season he was born.

[fairwhether1]

Thanks for sharing the article, Keith! Hope others will take the time to read it, too ;)

[OoMostHighoO]

Yes I did see your video and your question was answer. Jesus wanted us to celebrate his death instead of his birth like I showed you on (Luke 22:19). Christmas is a man made pegan holiday and like I also explain he wasn't born on december.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@OoMostHighoO You never supplied a verse which said NOT to celebrate his birth. Obviously there are verses which tell us to celebrate His death, but there is no command NOT to celebrate His birth. The angels did it. Why can't we? If you decide to join in with the angles, then pick a special day. It doesn't matter when.

[OoMostHighoO]

@EvidenceMinistries Luke 2:13,14

13.And suddenly there came to be with the angel a multitude of the heavenly army, praising God and saying: 14. "Glory in the heights above to God, and upon earth peace among men of goodwill."

Yes we can see that the Angels were celebrating and praising God because Jesus was who was to be the peace among men.

We are not angels so this must of have been only for them.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@OoMostHighoO Again, there is no commandment NOT to celebrate His birth. The angles did not tell anyone, "Hey, we are the only ones who can celebrate the birth of Christ!" Thanks for admitting that angels can celebrate CHRISTmas. ;-)

[OoMostHighoO]

@EvidenceMinistries I am with you, I think is great the celebrating with the angels might okay because they are guiding and helping as servants Jehovah, but remember to that we didn't get the specific day when he was born, the Angels did. We need to be careful not to drift away from what the bibles tells us to do, we need to always put trust in the Almighty that knows everything he does is perfect.

We don't want to be like Adam and Eve who disobeyed.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@OoMostHighoO You are completely missing the point. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter. The day doesn't matter...

[OoMostHighoO]

@EvidenceMinistries I didn't admit that Jesus Christ was born on Christmas I don't know why you twisted my words but anyways there typed. Make some research that in Beth elem it snows on winter. How can shepherds be outside on the snow while guiding there flock.?

[EvidenceMinistries]

@OoMostHighoO I didn't say that you admitted that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th. I said you admitted to the angels celebrating CHRISTmas. Remember, the day doesn't matter. Regardless of the date, the angels celebrated it.

[OoMostHighoO]

@evidene, okay you are correct it does mention christ birth, but do we know a specific day??. Like december 25 to say??. It says there were shepherds living out of doors and keeping watched in the night over there flocks. (luke 2:8) So do you think shepherds wil be outside on december when there is snow??.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@OoMostHighoO- Did you bother to even watch the video? I specifically said that Christians really don't care about the specific day. Please. Watch the video.

[OoMostHighoO]

First of all a true christian would not lie, so why will a christian be celebrating Christmas when they lie that Santa bought the gifts for there own children. Second in the bible does not mention Christs Birth, the bible talks about Jesus death on a stake to remember why he came and died for us. on (LUKE 22:19) Jesus says to keep celebrating my death yearly to keep a remembrance of him. Also read (1CORINTHIANS 11:20; MATTHEW 26:26-28) Attend the annual observance of the Lord's Evening Meal.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@OoMostHighoO We don't do Santa. The Bible DOES mention Christ's birth and the fact that angels CELEBRATED it (Luke 2:13-14). I have no problem doing today what angels did roughly 2,000 years ago.

[Bibl3Thumper]

23 years a Watchtower drone, I can tell you exactly what they would say (Tongue and cheek) WE WORSHIP JESUS ALL YEAR LONG

[EvidenceMinistries]

@Bibl3Thumper- Except that the Watchtower forbids them to worship Jesus at all.

[RPM11111]

I'm not a JW, but where in the Bible do we find the disciples celebrating Christ's birth at any time, not to mention annually. Also, why are we not guided anywhere in the Scriptures to do so. We are asked to do/remember many things, but not His birth. Why do we wait for 1 day in the year to be thankful for our Saviour anyway? Are we not thankful for Him everyday (Heb 4:9-10). I ask honestly with a desire to be true to the Scriptures. I've wondered about these things for many years. Peace bro.

[r8rfanizme]

@RPM11111 you hit the nail on the head, and the majority of Christmas traditions have Pagan origins and have been "re-branded" for a Christian meaning.

When it comes bringing a tree in your house and decorating it, Jeremiah 10: 1-5 is pretty blunt: Don't do it.

I think the best advice would be to follow the bible's teachings and examples of how Christmas should be celebrated.... If you can find them

[EvidenceMinistries]

@r8rfanizme That passage specifically mentions IDOLS. An idol is made out of a tree. To say that this is a CHRISTmas tree is a reach.

[Truth77Absolute]

@EvidenceMinistries I am not a Jehovahs Witness and would never join that church. I am Christian though and I am not big on holidays. There are some holidays I observe in moderation. Some holidays like Halloween I stay away from. I celebrate Jesus birth and death , his whole life all 365 days of the year. Its called living in the Holy Spirit. The "Christmas" spirit is the spirit of the world. I dont observe Christmas like the world does. If you do you are still in carnal

[Truth77Absolute]

@EvidenceMinistries With all that said, it is not a sin to celebrate Christmas but it is the way you mindset is. Uniting with Christ means that there will be a renewal of the mind. The Holy Spirit leads to to seperate from the world, spirtully. It makes you vomit Christmas.

[fairwhether1]

@EvidenceMinistries There's also evidence that Christmas trees are actually Christian in origin. They were used in liturgical dramas, specifically the 'Paradise Play' on Christmas Eve when Christians would re-tell the story of the fall of mankind (the evergreen was used as the 'paradise tree' or 'tree of knowledge'). The next day they'd celebrate Christmas giving thanks to God that Christ had come to save us & set us free from what happened back in the garden!

[EvidenceMinistries]

@fairwhether1 Cool!

[abbyguy]

@r8rfanizme You reference 10: 1-5 as you anchor scripture for not using a Christmas tree. You need to re-read it because it is NOT about the tree but the idols that are made from the trees brought in from the forest.

It is a contrast between the Idols and God. He was being sarcastic and showing just how stupid is to compare the two.

[RPM11111]

@r8rfanizme

I agree we should follow the Bible, but I don't see that Jeremiah 10:1-5 is talking about Christmas trees. I think there may be a principle there, but it's really speaking about carved idols. Could a tree be an idol, possibly, but I don't think people worship their Christmas trees. There is a dark pagan history associated with fir trees, and I can't see anything Christian about bringing them into my house to celebrate Jesus, so I don't. Old stick-in-the-mud, me.

[r8rfanizme]

@RPM11111 I may have used it out of context. The Christmas tree, a wreath an the door, The yule log, mistletoe, holly, even the date Christmas is celebrated, all have a Pagan origins, used to help the transition of Pagans into Christianity. In a modern day application, I feel it would be equivalent to putting a statue of Moroni on the lawn of the Evangelical Christian church to help Mormons assimilate into Christianity.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@r8rfanizme- You OBVIOUSLY haven't read the article I included in the "Show More" section.

[r8rfanizme]

@EvidenceMinistries Actually, I did read it. The article did allude that December 25th "may" have Pagan Origins, however, I would doubt that a site named Biblical Archeology Review would come up with that conclusion.

What is interesting is how many Pagan Gods have the common birth date of December 25th. Some lists have 11, some have 13. Either way, it is "odd" The Jesus would share a birthday with so many Pagan Gods.

PS. I buy into the Feast of the Tabernacles theory.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@r8rfanizme- Has it occurred to you that perhaps all of the pagan gods whose birthdays fall on the 25th did so in an attempt to pollute the birthday of the Son of God?

[r8rfanizme]

@EvidenceMinistries I doubt it. The Pagan holidays Predated Christ, The internet is covered with this info, including many Christian sites.

I think this video makes a good case for a festival at tabernacles birth:

/watch?v=f5ozUNbo8F4

This covers a lot, but not all of the Biblical evidence for his birth date.

I will give you the last comment. Thank you for your time.

r8rfanizme

PS. I hope to make it to Manti next year. I hope to meet you in person then.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@r8rfanizme Manti? That is about the last thing I expected to read in the comments on a JW video. Do I know you? Email me if you'd like.

[INQUESTOFTHETRUTH]

@RPM11111

If a "stomach" can be a "god" or idol, then a tree can also. The principle is whatever you make your god, is your idol, whether made of aluminum or wood.

Phil 3:19 "Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach".

Interesting, so many non-JW's and still against pagan holidays, like millions before them.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@RPM11111 We don't wait for one day a year, we just put EXTRA emphasis on a special day. I have no problem doing today what the angles did roughly 2,000 years ago. Nowhere in the Old testament are Jews told to celebrate Hanukkah, yet we find Jesus being in the temple during the feast of the dedication in the winter. (John 10:22-23) That is Hanukkah.

[Truth77Absolute]

@EvidenceMinistries , Christmas is not a Christian holiday. Its just one of those worldly celebrations that has evolved over time and has creeped into the body of Christ. Its like a virus. With all do respect, you are wasting your time that you can use to serve the Lord by defending Holidays that are not "Holy". The Catholic Church brought their Pagan infected traditions to the United States and has mixed it with other Christians....

[Truth77Absolute]

@EvidenceMinistries Romans 12

A Living Sacrifice 1 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2 Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

[RPM11111]

@EvidenceMinistries

I'm not sure you've answered my question, brother?

Peace

[EvidenceMinistries]

@RPM11111- Perhaps you don't like my answer, but I surely answered it. If you feel I did not, please rephrase your question.

[INQUESTOFTHETRUTH]

@EvidenceMinistries

Exactly what did the angels do? Praised God, not Jesus. It is as Eccl. 7:1 says, especially in Jesus case.

Wine was not specified to be used during the Passover yet Jesus used it. The Jews had a certain amount of latitude given them by which is obvious in the fact that Jesus did these things. However Jesus specifically said to celebrate his death not his birth. 1Cor11:25

[EvidenceMinistries]

@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH- Robin, exactly WHERE did Jesus say to celebrate His death AND NOT His birth. Really? Jesus said, "Don't celebrate my birth?" Where did He say that?

[RPM11111]

@EvidenceMinistries

I'm only asking because I question everything now, since leaving the Catholic church. I just wonder why it wasn't celebrated by the apostles or the early Church, or why it wasn't even encouraged? I wonder why it coincides with historically Pagan festivals and has all their trimmings?

I'm not going to badger anyone for celebrating Christmas, but as it's the "biggest" feast on the calendar, I just wonder why we don't find it more clearly in our guide - the Bible.

Peace bro.

[EvidenceMinistries]

@RPM11111 It is good to question. Don't ever stop. The bottom line is this, Romans 14:5-6. Christians in this day and age desire to honor Christ on December 25th. If that doesn't float your boat, then don't do it. What I find interesting is the criticism that it coincides with pagan festivals when, for all practical purposes, the pagan festivals aren't even celebrated anymore. Seriously, do you KNOW anyone who practices in those pagan celebrations?

[RPM11111]

@EvidenceMinistries

Thanks for your reply. Is it possible that nobody practices these pagan celebrations because they have Christmas which has the Pagan aspects attached? I ask because I know many who entertain Pagan-based or new-age beliefs and even many with atheistic beliefs who love Christmas, but despise Jesus and His Gospel.

[barbsinclair]

@RPM11111 >"where in the Bible do we find the disciples celebrating Christ's birth at any time"

All over the Bible we find this truth: the understanding of the gift of God, the child given (Isa9:6-7) is the truth of the gospel of God. Christians celebrate this each day in Christ Jesus our life, the Holy Son of God born of the virgin, come in the flesh in the city of David, our Saviour, which IS Christ the Lord (Lk2:11). The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord (Rm6:23).

[RPM11111]

@barbsinclair

Hi Barb. How are you sister? Hope you are enjoying your Christmas fellowship.

How about you answer the actual question I asked:

Where in the Bible do we find the disciples celebrating Christ's birth at any time, not to mention annually?

[barbsinclair]

@RPM11111

Lk2:11"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." Christ the Lord has come in the flesh, and He is coming again in glory "the man Christ Jesus" 1Ti2:5-6, "and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel" 2Ti1:9-10. "Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life" Rom 2:6-7 = Tts2:13-14. Amen, come Lord Jesus!

[INQUESTOFTHETRUTH]

@barbsinclair And to whom was worship given by the angels? Oh yes, God, not Jesus.

The accounts of Jesus birth in Matthew and Luke do not in any way promote celebrating his birth, in fact it is quite to the contrary. Many have come to this conclusion without our help since it is plainly presented in the Bible.

[barbsinclair]

@INQUESTOFTHETRUTH

"The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is Lord Jehovah from heaven" 1Co15:47 = "God our Saviour toward man appeared"Tts3:4

"all the angels of God worship Him." Heb1:6; Rev9:10;22:9, so they did:

"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."Lk2:11-14

[21crosscheck21]

Great question!!

[marthale7]

This set of verses is why I don't see a problem of being happy about Jesus comming to earth. Angels don't make mistakes, if they do then they are devils. These were proper angels happy about Jesus coming to earth. Not something that was celebrated the first hundred or two hundred years when Jesus came, but if we do this not in a pagan way, there should be nothing wrong with being happy that Jesus came to earth. I know I sure am!

[SpecialPioneerSmerf]

Wonderful scripture, i'll definitely be using it.

[1914watcher]

Luke 2:8-14 poses a slight problem for witnesses. (Jehovah's Glory?) Angles (celebrated) the birth of Christ? Say what?

=)

Great video!

[LeftyBlue]

The JWs I talked to told me that they dont celebrate the BIRTH but rather the DEATH of Jesus to open the gates of Heaven. The date of December 25th was picked because it was close to the winter solstice and they wanted to draw attention away from the celebration of solstice and toward the birth of Jesus. You are correct, we don't celebrate the date, we celebrate the event.