Sandra Dodd Pt 2: Unschooling & Real Learning

[omnileader]

Majority of people today go to public school anyway, but even the few that don't go and are provided with different alternatives does not mean anyone should bash on them because they are doing something different. Everyone does not have to fit the uniform structure of society. I believe parents have the free will to help their children decide what they want to do in terms of learning. Anyone can tell me I should send my kids to school, but I don't have to agree with the statement.

[omnileader]

I believe everyone is entitled to their own opinion about what they believe is educational. Unschoolers or Homeschoolers are not telling people that the people have to do what they believe, and yet people who are so tied up to school tell them they need to be a part of what they believe. As America, everyone has the freedom to believe what they want, I don't think anyone should have a dominant say in everything because that's not how it works.

[PainefulMass]

I'm a grad student working on my PhD in math. One thing I fear here is that the kids won't force themselves through the basics. I admit. K-12 math sort of sucked. It was tedious and annoying, but you just have to get through the hard work to get to the great ideas. I'm sure an unschooled child that loves math could still take this path, but I didn't love math until after high school, so I'm not sure how to keep this door open for an unschooler which saddens me.

[lev24free]

@PainefulMass I believe the reason it took you so long to love math is probably because of public school. In public school, math is just a bunch of worksheets and made up problems to solve. In unschooling it isn't like that. Also, in unschoolling because they aren't forced to learn specific things, the children keep the curiosity and love for learning they had as toddlers and babies so they don't have strong aversions to any subjects.

[jamiedoer2]

For all of the people out there tooting their horns about how great school is: Why is someone who can perform below average at 15 things better than someone who's great at 3? Why does EVERYONE have to be good at EVERYTHING? You're effectively eliminating diversity in the population by forcing that idea.

I'd love to question you all in depth about the Constitution, the French Revolution, Quantum Physics and all the other subjects you're convinced you know so much about thanks to school.

[BlackToyotaTacoma]

You're a crazy bitch.

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

@BlackToyotaTacoma YES!!! I completely agree with you!!!

[MonkeyPantz07]

You can make money or a living without working for someone else. And you can do this without schooling. And if you choose to get a "higher" education, you can do so without wasting 12 years of your life in a classroom association yourself with boredom and finding ways to quell the natural spirit within you that wants to break free and be happy and rich. I am a victim of the public school epidemic and I can and will prevent my daughter and any future children from being casualties too.

[MonkeyPantz07]

@MonkeyPantz07 Unless they want to go ofcourse.

[MonkeyPantz07]

Why are people so critical about education as if memorizing some useless knowledge and spitting it back out to receive certificates of completion really makes you so much better than those who follow a different path? Those who follow their passions and are happy and full in life are truly rich. For some reason people are so stuck in this world thinking that big business is god and we the people are its drones. And that is the only way. Business is nothing in this world- it is a plague

[indigoin0z]

so simply BRiLLiaNT. thankU!

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

Wal-mart better thank you for breeding the next generation of their employees.

[Nellsing]

@TheEpicMeatloaf You do notice this is due to the replicative class system that school itself creates by allying with the business system and disqualifying those who are not part of the school.

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

@Nellsing This is because without school, people do not gain the skills required to hold Professional level jobs. This is why you never hear about unschooled Doctors or Engineers.

[jamiedoer2]

@TheEpicMeatloaf Really?

Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein.

Although there wasn't a term for what they did, neither of them went to school like they were "supposed" to. I'm pretty sure at least one of them (or maybe both) went at some point, but then they dropped out when the schools wouldn't let them follow their passions.

Instead of staying in school and being mediocre at a lot of things, they left and became great at a few things.

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

@jamiedoer2 Albert Einstein went to college at the Polytechnic In Zurich, he was studying mathematics and physics. He graduated in 1900 with diplomas in each of his studies. You should get your facts straight before you try to argue your case... Thomas Edison may not have attended school, but he joined the workforce at the age of twelve. Almost all of his early inventions were aimed at improving the efficiency of the telegraph and making his life as a telegraph operator easier...

[jamiedoer2]

@TheEpicMeatloaf Einstein going to college has nothing to do with the fact that he didn't go through the public school system. He went to Catholic school until he was 10, but after that he dropped out.

And it doesn't matter if Thomas Edison joined the work force. He didn't go to public school either. You said you'd never heard of scientists who didn't go to school and there you go.

Unschooling isn't about not going to college. It's about not going to public school. They still go to college.

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

@jamiedoer2 It is impossible for anybody to become a professional engineer or a doctor without a college degree. Therefore, it is impossible for a child who has been no schooled to become a real engineer or doctor. by removing your kids from the school system you are denying them the chance to gain valuable social skills that can only be obtained through school. without school they will become adults who are socially inferior and struggle to fit in with society. apologize to your kids for me.

[jamiedoer2]

@TheEpicMeatloaf You're.. Not getting this.

Unschooled kids. Go. To. College. They do not go to grades K-12, and are homeschooled instead. It doesn't mean they don't have an education. It's just homeschooling.

And there are these things called "clubs" that you can join. And you know what? *Gasp* They exist outside of school, too!

You do not need public school, grades K-12, to become successful. And you don't need them to get into college.

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

@jamiedoer2 HAHAHAHA homeschooling is just as bad. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.

[jamiedoer2]

@TheEpicMeatloaf And it's not an hour a day a few times a week. You see people everywhere. At the store, in any classes you take, in clubs, in the park, at the swimming pool. The entire American population is NOT confined to public schools. And they're certainly not in school 24/7. Kids get out around 2pm. That still leaves time for movies, group hang outs, and going to parties.

And some kids who are homeschooled have mental problems. But homeschooling has changed since the 60's, you know.

[Nine00]

@jamiedoer2 2pm? HA! Maybe 20 years ago. Kids don't get home out till 3.30 ish today and have hours of homework to complete.

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

@jamiedoer2 Students in public school learn how to deal with bullying, peer pressure, etc. early on. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve met who were homeschooled during the early grades. they are at a disadvantage in every way to kids who grew up going to public school. they often end up with very few friends because they are awkward. They often say and do a lot of socially inappropriate things. I feel really bad for them because they tend to be awful at adapting to new social situations.

[jamiedoer2]

@TheEpicMeatloaf You don't "need" to deal with bullying and peer pressure. If you don't like someone at your job? Quit. Or complain to HR. Or move your office. Or work at home. There are a lot of ways to deal with it other than staying. And you don't HAVE to stay at your job. No matter what anyone is convinced, no one is forcing you to stay there. And you really think public school kids "deal" with peer pressure? They've only learned to give in to it.

[TheEpicMeatloaf]

@jamiedoer2 nothing would ever get done if people just ran away like a pussy every time they have an argument with someone. the reason public school is so great is that it makes kids stay together and build relationships 8 hours a day, five days a week. public schools teach kids how to work together, cooperate and solve their own problems. it teaches kids how to do things on their own without running to someone else to fight their battles for them. btw, when did i say anything about the 60s

[ion010101]

@TheEpicMeatloaf Coming off like a thug, calling us "pussies", is that the socialization you learned in school? When you get into a fight, or confront someone and end up in a fight, and you're in front of a judge for it, the judge does not say, "good for you handling it on your own". The judge will say, "why didn't you walk away, why didn't you call the police?" When you're forced to learn times tables, you learn t-tables, and you also learn that you need to be forced to learn. You learned that.

[AtheismandSkepticism]

This is disgraceful.

Glorifying ignorance makes me sick.

I hope her kids realise what she did to them when they grow up and sue her.

[sobodude]

Oh come on, Sandy, admit it. You're just a "don't hassle me, man" hippie from the sixties.

[bcharriez]

U left wng people have 2 be d worst parents on earth!!! U should not be aloud 2 have children!

[bobbybenjamin]

this is bullshit, children need education. to deny them is child abuse.

[TheAmazingImbecile]

@bobbybenjamin "deny" them? Unschoolers don't deny the children education. If the children wish to be educated the parents would support their endeavor. What you're actually saying is that not forcing your children to attend a totalitarian institution 5 days a week is child abuse. The effect of traditional schooling shines brilliantly throughout your comments.

[bobbybenjamin]

@TheAmazingImbecile point taken, but no children would honesty come up with the idea to learn about quantum physics without some sort of education on the subject matter. it just doesn't happen. maybe unschooling can work for some subjects. but for others the same tactics just don't fit.

[jamiedoer2]

@bobbybenjamin Well the parents ARE allowed to introduce things to their kids. The parent's job is to be a facilitator. Not only do the kids follow what they're interested in, but the parents present them with any kind of subject matter they find interesting and important.

And how much exactly do YOU know about quantum physics?

[bobbybenjamin]

@jamiedoer2

enough to know that time is both a solid, manipulative and physical force.

u jelly nigga?

[bobbybenjamin]

@TheAmazingImbecile o and nice job looking down your nose on people who went to a traditional public school. that's really classy.

[TheAmazingImbecile]

@bobbybenjamin I went to a traditional public school

[Ex0dus111]

Well this fixes the problem the US has with low end jobs.

While higher education has become too common, even ppl with a college education are having issues getting jobs, the more popular this beocmes the better it will be for college grads.

haha, I just thought of... imagine showing up for a job with UNschooled on ur curriculum, Imagine the laughter on the face of the employer.

Washing dishes is good honest work though, nothing wrong with that.

[Sanchara]

Does Natural Learning build a broad base of knowlage that a child can later build on even if his or her interests change? ie: if at fourteen a child is primarilly focused on music would he or she have the math skills to move to a career in technology?

[OHYESx]

if the kid is focused on music then it probably won't want to go into technology, and if they changet their mind and decide they like technology, then they learn maths.. simple!

[Sanchara]

I was using myself as an example - at fourteen all I cared about was music and as a result nearly failed math. I think I'd be even more screwed if I wasn't forced to learn math.

[Saffron49]

@Sanchara You don't need math skills if you use technology.

You don't need to know how to spell to write a book. There is software out there that automatically corrects your grammar and spelling.

[jamiedoer2]

@Sanchara If a child is primarily focused on music why would they want a career in technology?

[Sanchara]

@jamiedoer2 because their interests may change as they are exposed to new things. also when you are very young it is difficult to diferentiate your parents interests from your own.

[jamiedoer2]

@Sanchara And? As your interests change so can your education.

What was your favorite thing in the entire world as a child?

[Sanchara]

@jamiedoer2 the problem is that there are a lot of things that are harder to learn as you get older. it's important to get as much varity as you can as a child.

My favorite thing as a child was going to school and talking to my teachers. or sitting in the library reading about fish and reptiles. I loved cross country, track, karate and badminton. I wanted to gymnastics but I could only do school sports because of $.

I hated math but loved math-blaster (a computer game for teaching math)

[jamiedoer2]

@Sanchara The "things are harder to learn as you get older" argument is a total myth. There is no biological reason as to why learning is harder when you get older, and if there was then the human race would have completely died out. The old and their inability to learn would have died out before the young could even fend for themselves. But I digress.

All of that time you spent playing math-blaster and running track, do you regret that? Does it seem like a waste of time?

[Sanchara]

@jamiedoer2 @Sanchara I don't know much educational psycology but I do know that it is much harder to learn new skills in sport if you didn't get lots of varity as a kid. (search: Long Term Athlete Development)

I don't think any of those things were a waste and I wouldn't have had any of those opertunities without school. I love the philosophy of unschooling - but in a way it scares me almost as much as the idea of non-trained parents coahcing their kids gymnastics from home.

[Sanchara]

@jamiedoer2 I'm a coach not an teacher so for all I know learning physical skills could be nothing like academic learning. Somehow I don't think thats true. There is a lot of hard science behind the Long Term Athlete Development program. I didn't say impossible, just harder.

To be honest I think Unschooling is a great idea. However it is important that parents make sure that their kids are exposed to varity.NEVER try to teach a subject they hate themselves as this can ruin it for the child.

[jamiedoer2]

@Sanchara I can't find anything that to explain what "LTAD" is. Just training programs

What happens is that you get exposed to variety through your hobbies.

I play bass clarinet. After playing for a while I wanted to learn about how my clarinet worked, so I got exposure to mechanics. I also wanted to learn more about sound (Physics). And how music affected the brain (Psychology). I also wanted to find out about how the bass clarinet was developed, and early pieces it was used in (history).

[jamiedoer2]

@Sanchara After reading about how it was developed I wanted to learn about the other instruments which were made around that time, as well as the bass clarinet prototypes. Then I went to a museum to see the serpent horn (prototype). I also started reading about the time period in which the bass clarinet was developed (early 1800's). Through my music physics I became more interested in general physics, and through that math (since science is math heavy).

[Fathoms2004]

As a casualty of public schooling I have to say that this unschooling concept resonates on a deeply personal level. I was obsessed with the comic Calvin and Hobbes as a kid in which the six-year old Calvin is seen by parents and teachers as a bad student, who is irresponsible and unreliable, when really his spirit just wanted to be free. I look back on my experience of school now and see how closely it paralleled that dissociative break that happens when a person's essence is treated irrelevant

[leavesof3]

My only regret with unschooling is that I did not know about it sooner. Thank you Sandra!

[luckiebyrd]

I would really love to see this series continue! Thank you, Sandra. (and I owe you many thanks)

[vanessamjeff]

Great video. I'd love to Unschool/home shcool my kids if I have any.

[beepnuts]

I've learned more from Sandra then I ever did in any formal school setting. I've even unlearned a few things.

Sandra rocks!

[anne0203]

very excited to see your video Sandra - it is a path to more people knowing/sharing...

[SammyBoyEEE]

Interesting talk, never heard of the term unschooling before. This reminds me of a documentary called Surfwise I watched a while back where these homeschooled kids all grew up to be very successfull. Also if you type "Do schools kill creativity?" in your search bar, theres a really great talk from a college professor about the subject.

[SandraDodd]

It turns out kids can learn reading, writing, spelling and all kinds of "language skills" without being taught! It's awesome, and fun.

[fuzzycabin]

I like the idea of teaching children what interests them. There are, perhaps, a few subjects they should be strongly encouraged to take- like basic language skills. When I was at school, I was told that I wouldn`t be able to make it in the world without a comprehensive knowledge of math; that has turned out to be a lie.