Not a true "Yellowbird" A TRUE RUF Yellowbird had black vents on top the rear wheel arch's. All others were still RUF CTR's just the regular or lightweight versions. Only the high-powered "Worlds Fastest Production Car of 1987" had the rear vents on the rear wheel archs.
@rock3tcat, I agree. But it's a shame that it's all the talentless ones who buy the car for the looks or because it's known to be expensive, that have all the money. :(
0:45 sums up everything I like about the 911, a bad ass machine for drivers who are both talented and serious about their driving.
I hope that Porsche won't go into the same trap as Ferrari by packing their cars with all sorts of electronic BS to save talentless drivers, just keep it a pure racing machine. :D
As all 911, they are good handling machine. It only becomes tricky when you over the limit. The rear-end heavy oversteering can not be cured by releasing the gas as FR cars, or accelerating as FF or FWD cards. Driver has to have great sence of speed and tire grip relate to the 911 in order to drive it fast. As I know, many people try to cure this issue by stiffen the front suspention, and end up undrivable in slow corner and sold the car. 911 is good handling and pure driver's car.
I would give anyting to own one of these A proper mans car the real deal old school stylee. Not all those silly ones that have DSC tct...Bla bla bla for boys who don't know difference between Oversteer or Understeer but sure do know how to quickly turn on traction control etc and drive very fast in a straight line or from the traffic lights. THESE is my dream car the CTR1 NOT the CTR2 or 3. They are too safe. Thanks for the video. LOVE IT!!
porsches are like the little devils in the supercar world. they dont look anything like the other cars, theyre small, nimble, and very fast. i fell in love with porsches when i saw the chase seen in bad boys part 1 on the airstrip lol....
Maxrev that is cool you live in germany near ruf. I have a 98 993 (targa) with a full spec btr2 conversion (single turb) it only has 420 horse but is loads of fun to drive. Not as much body roll as this ctr interestingly...not sure that matters.....ruf is king of the aircooled's! Scruff gemballa and promotive give me ruf or give me death!!!!!!!
ditto to that..then i would waste all the rich idiots in my country (Romania)who think their cars are the best just because they are new and very expensive..they would laugh at first..haha shit car you have than i would love to see their faces when they are RAPED
very well pointed my friend..and if they saw this car:they would be like..uuu nice museum porsche:| screw bitches with a lot of money and no knowledge and passion
paint it black and put a wide body kit and replace the body panels with carbon fiber and add second turbo and then you got a Wangan Midnight black bird replica.
Only the original prototype dubbed "Yellowbird" had the NACA openings. All later CTRs vented air through the intercoolers via slats cut into the rear bumper cover. Ruf found the air charge from the rear wing into the engine compartment was more than enough volume to meet their needs.
Don't mistake "easy handling" with "good handling" - they are not the same thing. Often the best handling cars are actually quite tricky, requiring both skill and months, if not years, of training and practice. Rufs (and Porsches) have historically been excellent handling machines, but also quite tricky, even to the point of being unsafe for those many, many, novice drivers who didn't know how to control them properly.
@TGPanjandrum despite the multiple thumbs up, your statement is incorrect. "handling" is actually the term for the feel of driver/human interface points and overall feel of the car, and is often misapplied as a blanket term for overall grip, vehicle dynamics, and cornering speed.
No, I actually meant exactly what I said. Porsches, especially 911s and their ilk are great handling cars, (but there is no denying that the older ones are tricky). They have indescribably accurate road-feel and the oversteer/understeer dynamics are, for those of us who have learned to drive them properly, ideal in a way no other car can be. While there are plenty of other cars which can equal or better them in specific tests that doesn't necessarily equate to better handling.
Same applies to AWD, you can go from underteer to oversteer in the middle of a turn. Especially a fast turbocharged without tract control or ESP, AWD car like my 93 Audi S4 boosted to 23 psi. The boost can come on suddenly and throw you out of whack. These cars take years to master. The Audis of the group B era were amazing yet tricky to handle as well with over 500 HP at the wheels.
@TGPanjandrum years of training? really? so they have to hire drivers and pay them for years before theyre able to control these shit-handling machines?
@shadowIbunny Not only are you replying to a 2 year old comment, do you have to be a prick about it as well? I'm sure the driver has already had plenty of experience in different porsches before he was selected. Do you think that RUF would hire a random stranger off the street? I ask because you make it seem as if RUF does.
It's somewhat like asking a company CEO if he raised all of his employees from infants.
@csmybuttt so you're proving my point by saying the driver /NEEDS/ to have experience in other porsches since their RR handling is so bad an unpredictable? lol thanks
@shadowIbunny Well, if you were a company trying to test a car, what pool of candidates would you use; a person who has never raced, or a professional, established driver specializing in Porsches? I'm sure at a car's limits, the orientation of the drivetrain will certainly change its handling characteristics.
@csmybuttt the fact that they have to be "specialists" in porsches implies that porsches have different (read: bad) handling characteristics than most conventional racing platforms, otherwise they could just hire any normal racer without years of porsche-specific training. thanks for proving my point again!
@shadowIbunny No, you fucking retard. How are you equating "different" with "bad"? Every drivetrain layout has its advantages and drawbacks. Again, I'm sure the candidate pool is filled with former and current racecar drivers.
Let's say you drive a BMW, and it needs to be checked out. With all things held constant, there is a shop for BMWs, and a shop for MB. Which one do you go to?
@csmybuttt lol u mad? If RR handling characteristics were good theyd be a dominating trend in motorsports but theyre not. theres actually no RR cars other than porsche running right now and that is because porsche has spent the last few decades engineering everything around the RR layout to make it handle as predictably as an FR or MR. furthermore, many car journalists think the cayman (MR) is the best handling porsche.
Too funny, I have owned 3 RX-7's, still own my '90 'vert. Last year I bought my dream car, '88 930 Turbo. Is your Mom named Mary? Born in Maine? We might have been seperated at birth!
PLEASE DONT READ THIS. YOU WILL GET KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT TO AT LEAST 3 VIDEOS YOU WILL DIE WITHIN 2 DAYS. NOW UV STARTED READIN DIS DUNT STOP THIS IS SO SCARY. SEND THIS OVER TO 5 VIDEOS IN 143 MINUTES WHEN UR DONE PRESS F6 AND UR CRUSHES NAME WILL APPEAR ON THE SCREEN IN BIG LETTERS. THIS IS SO SCARY BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKs
24 replicas are known, and these are 2 of them, i think. i can't see the big intakes on the top of the rear fenders for the 2 angular mounted intercoolers the original CTR's have had, also the bar between the rear lights was red plastic not the colour of the car. still absolutley impressive machines...
They acutally removed the side naca air intake on the rear wing for most of the road versions as air coming through the rear wing was actuallly rammedout out of the naca intake. It was sufficiant for cooling so they removed it. First géneration Ruf CTR's had oil filler on the right rear wing like the fuel trap on left front. Problem, a lot of gas stations put petrol in the oil tank so it was removed on later models. Officially it has 470cv but in reality it pulls closer to 500cv.
They acutally removed the side naca air intake on the rear wing for most of the road versions as air coming through the rear wing was actuallly rammedout out of the naca intake. It was sufficiant for cooling so they removed it. First géneration Ruf CTR's had oil filler on the right rear wing like the fuel trap on left front. Problem, a lot of gas stations put petrol in the oil tank so it was removed on later models. Officially it has 470cv but in reality it pulls closer to 500cv.
The reason you dont see the vents above the arches is because most CTRs did not have them. The yellowbird got them, but "Yellowbird" is just the name on the company demonstrator and not on the rest of the CTRs. They are all called Yellowbird even if it`s not 100 % correct. But who cares..it`s the greatest car ever!
Not a true "Yellowbird" A TRUE RUF Yellowbird had black vents on top the rear wheel arch's. All others were still RUF CTR's just the regular or lightweight versions. Only the high-powered "Worlds Fastest Production Car of 1987" had the rear vents on the rear wheel archs.
sethndavis 2 months ago
grande lenda!
felipe270782 4 months ago
@rock3tcat, I agree. But it's a shame that it's all the talentless ones who buy the car for the looks or because it's known to be expensive, that have all the money. :(
blksentra2 8 months ago
0:45 sums up everything I like about the 911, a bad ass machine for drivers who are both talented and serious about their driving.
I hope that Porsche won't go into the same trap as Ferrari by packing their cars with all sorts of electronic BS to save talentless drivers, just keep it a pure racing machine. :D
rock3tcat 9 months ago 3
@rock3tcat It's not a 911...
abacacus 4 months ago
GT5 graphics are awesome now... they are very lifelike and sounds great
FuckTheLawNiggas 10 months ago
Yup, rr enginez are way too much oversteer to handle...
xaioguy73 10 months ago
Its the STIG!
chevelle19721 11 months ago
How do you unlock this? or do you have to buy it?
carson900 11 months ago 3
Is this real or GT5???
xJiizzz 1 year ago
@xJiizzz Are you kidding me?
teedot 10 months ago
@teedot OMG, Stupid bitch, im saying that the Graphic on the game is Amazing! I now its GT5!
xJiizzz 10 months ago
@xJiizzz You think this is GT5? Seriously?
I suggest you open those eyes of yours a little more...
teedot 10 months ago
@xJiizzz Nice to see you can form sentences as well, shame that you have to use profanity to get your point across... must not be too intelligent.
teedot 10 months ago
@teedot Sarcasm...
xJiizzz 10 months ago
As all 911, they are good handling machine. It only becomes tricky when you over the limit. The rear-end heavy oversteering can not be cured by releasing the gas as FR cars, or accelerating as FF or FWD cards. Driver has to have great sence of speed and tire grip relate to the 911 in order to drive it fast. As I know, many people try to cure this issue by stiffen the front suspention, and end up undrivable in slow corner and sold the car. 911 is good handling and pure driver's car.
oddchung 1 year ago
granda ruf eu queria trocar o meu gt2 de 2002 por um deste
alanet100 1 year ago
the best car...period....
pacocandano 1 year ago
i want one!!!!!!!
supertrix101 1 year ago
Ohh thats wonderful sound...
a8127 1 year ago
I would give anyting to own one of these A proper mans car the real deal old school stylee. Not all those silly ones that have DSC tct...Bla bla bla for boys who don't know difference between Oversteer or Understeer but sure do know how to quickly turn on traction control etc and drive very fast in a straight line or from the traffic lights. THESE is my dream car the CTR1 NOT the CTR2 or 3. They are too safe. Thanks for the video. LOVE IT!!
Nation010 1 year ago
if you think this is good ,watch mine at the ring in the original yellowbird with stephan roser..
sidewayssam 1 year ago
i never had this luck to drive it, but i think that it must be a GURMAN RIDA
crzcba 1 year ago
Love the way that silver one is chasing the yellow car. Great skill and commitment, hanging the tail out, as only a 911 can do.
TheWhupper 1 year ago
porsches are like the little devils in the supercar world. they dont look anything like the other cars, theyre small, nimble, and very fast. i fell in love with porsches when i saw the chase seen in bad boys part 1 on the airstrip lol....
digimon916 1 year ago
i remember the RUF from the early Gran Tourismo games!
slade420 1 year ago 2
me 2, too bad they dont have porsche in gran turismo.
Tiamat583 1 year ago
RUF ; There is no substitute AT ALL =D
geforce5700fx 1 year ago
korega
sekaisaisoku!
NANIWAREI 2 years ago
Forget Ferrari, Lamborghini & Co! They`re cars for snobs to be seen on boulevards.
This is a really fast car to be driven by real pilots on the track or on German Autobahns...
forstflieger 2 years ago 7
I would give a testi for the silver one ! xD
geforce5700fx 1 year ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
why they look like porsche?
dragonjay619 2 years ago
because it is a Porsche.
RUF is just a Tuner.
tonhaxxor 2 years ago
oh ok thanks for the info
dragonjay619 2 years ago
no Ruf is not a Tuner.. because the Ruf cars are not like the Porsche cars ;) Read it
SanMiguel17Ekclan 2 years ago
They are even mentioned as a own car manufacturer.
gielfransen 1 year ago
@gielfransen yes ruf is a own car manufacturer sry im from Germany :D i cant wirte english so good
SanMiguel17Ekclan 1 year ago
thats at Fuji speedway in Japan.Great track and that Yellowbird is badass
the13joker 2 years ago
dammn this is like the hottest milf between cars...fucking sexy..
serdarb14 2 years ago 2
Maxrev that is cool you live in germany near ruf. I have a 98 993 (targa) with a full spec btr2 conversion (single turb) it only has 420 horse but is loads of fun to drive. Not as much body roll as this ctr interestingly...not sure that matters.....ruf is king of the aircooled's! Scruff gemballa and promotive give me ruf or give me death!!!!!!!
weirdnessbeardness 2 years ago
I would remove one of my own testicles with a pair of rusty pliers to have one of those babies sitting in my garage.... And that's a scientific fact!
05027802 2 years ago
ditto to that..then i would waste all the rich idiots in my country (Romania)who think their cars are the best just because they are new and very expensive..they would laugh at first..haha shit car you have than i would love to see their faces when they are RAPED
golf1diesel 2 years ago
those kind of people you talk about see cars as expensive furs or jewelery to wear, and display
most of them don't know shit about motorracing or what kind of an engine is in their car
This RUF CTR (Porsche 911) was clocked at 211mph=339km/h in the 1988 Road&Track supercar test. It was even faster than the Ferrari F40.
This Ruf is still seriously fast compared to many modern supercars.
McLarenMercedes 2 years ago
very well pointed my friend..and if they saw this car:they would be like..uuu nice museum porsche:| screw bitches with a lot of money and no knowledge and passion
golf1diesel 2 years ago
i think the motorcycle shit himself at 1:12
crv26 2 years ago
Y NEED YOUR SEVICE IN NASCAR MEXIVO
aguilerapro 2 years ago
i just remembered now blackbird is a 964 911 turbo .
DragonInfraXtremeRGT 2 years ago 2
i also forgot gold rims.
DragonInfraXtremeRGT 2 years ago
gold rims are kewl
oistein74 2 years ago
paint it black and put a wide body kit and replace the body panels with carbon fiber and add second turbo and then you got a Wangan Midnight black bird replica.
DragonInfraXtremeRGT 2 years ago
where is that video?
crv26 2 years ago
dump ass
The yellow bird have already 2 turbos^^
i know it
i saw it
i live 10minutes from RUF away LOL
PSSSSSSSSSSSST:RuF is scared about skyline GTR LOL
Maxrev 2 years ago
love da car
heydudekev 2 years ago
::cough:: blackbird ::cough::
PrescriptionSeven 2 years ago
Great video, more footage please!
pokiebaron 2 years ago
Most people would loop right off the road in a rear engine car like this.
BigEdgePoker 2 years ago 21
'most people' can't drive to save their own life... in any car ;/
Tamaramajamma 2 years ago 4
Is that a Silver Bird ? ha ha nice drifting
black930t 2 years ago
I agree
CorneliusMcGee 2 years ago
idk for me it looks like the car has alot of body roll did it seem that way to anybody?
euroman12003 2 years ago
it seems like it has a bit
GearHead318 2 years ago
a lot for a race car, not for a late 80s roadgoing car.
Tamaramajamma 2 years ago
driving old 911s is so much fun!!!!!!!
porschedriverS2 3 years ago
You gotta be well versed to drive an older 911 like this. Automotive equivalent of the Harrier jump jet.
cosmicdingo 3 years ago
You guys i think i just came yet again this yellow bird RUF is fucking amazingly beautiful!!!!
nitrogliz 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Check out my video of the only CTR in North America.
thedeclineproduction 3 years ago
CTR...used to have two openings for the intercooler in both rear fenders....there are missing here. Anyone can explain?
mk2007al 3 years ago
Only the original prototype dubbed "Yellowbird" had the NACA openings. All later CTRs vented air through the intercoolers via slats cut into the rear bumper cover. Ruf found the air charge from the rear wing into the engine compartment was more than enough volume to meet their needs.
roadbeef 3 years ago
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do you like my profile? T
chickle1 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
hey I think you live near me! MSG me on MSN. ID is in my profile. C
HipHop31000 3 years ago
COooool car!! I love it!
sseag123 3 years ago
BAD ASS!
amarcare 3 years ago
This is my dream!!! I now drive an SC 3.0
spekmeister69 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pretty good for a tuned up beetle!!!!
adrev123 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
lol, yeah.
Surprisingly these ass-engined Nazi sleds have become decent-handling cars instead of axe-murderers... Well, only in the last 10 years or so.
RotaryJunkie 3 years ago
Don't mistake "easy handling" with "good handling" - they are not the same thing. Often the best handling cars are actually quite tricky, requiring both skill and months, if not years, of training and practice. Rufs (and Porsches) have historically been excellent handling machines, but also quite tricky, even to the point of being unsafe for those many, many, novice drivers who didn't know how to control them properly.
TGPanjandrum 3 years ago 42
True enough...
Perhaps I should have worded it differently... 911s don't want to kill you as much as they used to.
RotaryJunkie 3 years ago
@TGPanjandrum despite the multiple thumbs up, your statement is incorrect. "handling" is actually the term for the feel of driver/human interface points and overall feel of the car, and is often misapplied as a blanket term for overall grip, vehicle dynamics, and cornering speed.
gripracer 1 year ago
Comment removed
TGPanjandrum 1 year ago
Comment removed
TGPanjandrum 1 year ago
@gripracer
No, I actually meant exactly what I said. Porsches, especially 911s and their ilk are great handling cars, (but there is no denying that the older ones are tricky). They have indescribably accurate road-feel and the oversteer/understeer dynamics are, for those of us who have learned to drive them properly, ideal in a way no other car can be. While there are plenty of other cars which can equal or better them in specific tests that doesn't necessarily equate to better handling.
TGPanjandrum 1 year ago
@TGPanjandrum that's not what i'm arguing. i'm just pointing out the misapplication of the word handling.
gripracer 1 year ago
@TGPanjandrum
Same applies to AWD, you can go from underteer to oversteer in the middle of a turn. Especially a fast turbocharged without tract control or ESP, AWD car like my 93 Audi S4 boosted to 23 psi. The boost can come on suddenly and throw you out of whack. These cars take years to master. The Audis of the group B era were amazing yet tricky to handle as well with over 500 HP at the wheels.
eraseyouu 1 year ago
@TGPanjandrum years of training? really? so they have to hire drivers and pay them for years before theyre able to control these shit-handling machines?
shadowIbunny 10 months ago
@shadowIbunny Not only are you replying to a 2 year old comment, do you have to be a prick about it as well? I'm sure the driver has already had plenty of experience in different porsches before he was selected. Do you think that RUF would hire a random stranger off the street? I ask because you make it seem as if RUF does.
It's somewhat like asking a company CEO if he raised all of his employees from infants.
csmybuttt 10 months ago
@csmybuttt so you're proving my point by saying the driver /NEEDS/ to have experience in other porsches since their RR handling is so bad an unpredictable? lol thanks
shadowIbunny 10 months ago
@shadowIbunny Well, if you were a company trying to test a car, what pool of candidates would you use; a person who has never raced, or a professional, established driver specializing in Porsches? I'm sure at a car's limits, the orientation of the drivetrain will certainly change its handling characteristics.
csmybuttt 10 months ago
@csmybuttt the fact that they have to be "specialists" in porsches implies that porsches have different (read: bad) handling characteristics than most conventional racing platforms, otherwise they could just hire any normal racer without years of porsche-specific training. thanks for proving my point again!
shadowIbunny 10 months ago
@shadowIbunny No, you fucking retard. How are you equating "different" with "bad"? Every drivetrain layout has its advantages and drawbacks. Again, I'm sure the candidate pool is filled with former and current racecar drivers.
Let's say you drive a BMW, and it needs to be checked out. With all things held constant, there is a shop for BMWs, and a shop for MB. Which one do you go to?
csmybuttt 10 months ago
@csmybuttt lol u mad? If RR handling characteristics were good theyd be a dominating trend in motorsports but theyre not. theres actually no RR cars other than porsche running right now and that is because porsche has spent the last few decades engineering everything around the RR layout to make it handle as predictably as an FR or MR. furthermore, many car journalists think the cayman (MR) is the best handling porsche.
shadowIbunny 10 months ago
@TGPanjandrum driven many times on different reacetracks - easy to drive ;)
Naru1987 7 months ago
The person in the grey RUF got some mad driving skillz...
Drone696 3 years ago
RUF
runnerbaba 4 years ago
yeah. the otto normal verbraucher would say it´s a god damn porsche.
gitarrenfruchtblues 3 years ago
RUF at Fuji?
Rosemeyer78 4 years ago
as much as i love all the rotary powered cars....
this is hands down the BEST car ever produced !!
rx7outlaw 4 years ago
Too funny, I have owned 3 RX-7's, still own my '90 'vert. Last year I bought my dream car, '88 930 Turbo. Is your Mom named Mary? Born in Maine? We might have been seperated at birth!
raidermike72 3 years ago
sick
hapahaole32 4 years ago
Amazing sound!!!!!!!!
DiStroyer87 4 years ago
Sounds like a plane.
Mazda6B6 4 years ago 2
i agree one of the best cars. ever.
habsa420 4 years ago
best car
lada154 4 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
PLEASE DONT READ THIS. YOU WILL GET KISSED ON THE NEAREST POSSIBLE FRIDAY BY THE LOVE OF YOUR LIFE. TOMORROW WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE. HOWEVER IF YOU DONT POST THIS COMMENT TO AT LEAST 3 VIDEOS YOU WILL DIE WITHIN 2 DAYS. NOW UV STARTED READIN DIS DUNT STOP THIS IS SO SCARY. SEND THIS OVER TO 5 VIDEOS IN 143 MINUTES WHEN UR DONE PRESS F6 AND UR CRUSHES NAME WILL APPEAR ON THE SCREEN IN BIG LETTERS. THIS IS SO SCARY BECAUSE IT ACTUALLY WORKs
porsche911CarreraRS 4 years ago
I just had an orgasm.
Twice.
CLGartman 4 years ago 4
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha cl
12valvepower 4 years ago
24 replicas are known, and these are 2 of them, i think. i can't see the big intakes on the top of the rear fenders for the 2 angular mounted intercoolers the original CTR's have had, also the bar between the rear lights was red plastic not the colour of the car. still absolutley impressive machines...
GTLgamer 4 years ago
Last one don't have big intakes...
kitetrip 4 years ago
top speed is 342 km/h. testet 1988 in "auto motor und sport" magazine (germany)
greetz from there ^^
Millegauss 4 years ago 2
BEWARE OF THE TURBO LAGGG lmao but reallt these things have masive turbo lad
super2ner 4 years ago
I wounder how much this car goes for?
twinturbo1995 4 years ago
hmm I would think that a yellow bird wul have less body roll? although i have heard they spin easily so maybe that's why?
jamie762000 4 years ago
I just wet myself! That car is sex on wheels!
rednecksrock1 4 years ago
They acutally removed the side naca air intake on the rear wing for most of the road versions as air coming through the rear wing was actuallly rammedout out of the naca intake. It was sufficiant for cooling so they removed it. First géneration Ruf CTR's had oil filler on the right rear wing like the fuel trap on left front. Problem, a lot of gas stations put petrol in the oil tank so it was removed on later models. Officially it has 470cv but in reality it pulls closer to 500cv.
marcducati 5 years ago
They acutally removed the side naca air intake on the rear wing for most of the road versions as air coming through the rear wing was actuallly rammedout out of the naca intake. It was sufficiant for cooling so they removed it. First géneration Ruf CTR's had oil filler on the right rear wing like the fuel trap on left front. Problem, a lot of gas stations put petrol in the oil tank so it was removed on later models. Officially it has 470cv but in reality it pulls closer to 500cv.
marcducati 5 years ago
nice footage. I've got some saved up of the only Black AWD Yellowbird... but that's saved for a future release.
What track is this?
nthfinity 5 years ago
The reason you dont see the vents above the arches is because most CTRs did not have them. The yellowbird got them, but "Yellowbird" is just the name on the company demonstrator and not on the rest of the CTRs. They are all called Yellowbird even if it`s not 100 % correct. But who cares..it`s the greatest car ever!
trondravne 5 years ago
awesome car, how many horsepower is that thing pulling 480??
er1115 5 years ago
yes yes yes it's real yellow bird !
noripo 5 years ago
I don't see the side vents above the rear arches so are you sure it's a real Yellow Bird?
vevapower 5 years ago