Submissions 101: Shoulder Throw/ Ippon Seoi nage

[cjs32123]

Hey what would you do if they didn't let go.

[gavipk]

This is an escape from a standing RNC, only works when uke basically loads himself up over your hips for you.

Seoi nage is an attack that requires reading and off balancing your opponent, attacking with expert timing, footwork, and LOTS of explosive strength. Also getting hit with it is epic - you get fully flipped, no rolling off the back. Watch some Judo highlight reels and try to do it like that @ 100%. SO HARD to pull off. Takes a lifetime to master!

[mool1965]

you would let go the choke too if you were heading toward the concrete! this a self defence move not mma.

[Lardman678]

would this still work if the choke is secure? I've seen this in action, but the choke wasn't secure when i saw it.

[tomhayton]

Interesting application of ippon seoi nage. However, stepping forward with one leg like this isn't really the best way to do it. If the guy is much stronger, he will pull you backwards. You need to drop your hips to get under his centre of gravity so he falls ''over'' you as you pull down and round towards the floor. Keep up the good work!

[plalelal]

If the opponent/ attacker keeps the rear naked he will land a little hard but still submit you. In your video he lets go.

[iam503nigga]

thats were judo kicks in 2 if he pulls u back then turn ur body then with ur right or left leg trip him common sense!!

[ipponyoass]

The key is to bend the knees - once your hips are lower than your opponent's, the throw will work.

[metallickiller93]

Beutiful Man

[ave383]

Thanks I've been looking for a move like this.

[mak19801980]

Those mats are not really made for falls... Judo mats are much softer. Poor guy... =D

[AyzieBone]

what if the guy grabs you as shown in the video and curves his body backwards?

[TKDdreadful]

true

[cryingindian]

then you fall backwards and try something else lol. The idea of this is what to do if the situation is right. If you didnt learn something because there was a counter to it then you wouldnt learn anything at all :)

[Dirtydog102]

I image you'd try to reap his leg

[edsheadsaid]

Then you counter with ko soto gari or o soto gari.

[serveruler]

thats what makes this move useless, if you step forward the other guy will have leverage and make you fall backwards where he will be in total controll.

[LuisTheWiser]

lower yourself as well and hook both of his knees ( the back of them) and squat, shoot up and back and land yourself right on top of his sternum/diaphram mucsle(on the ground) then get out quickly.All in one motion so it surprises your opponent- do not hesitate.

[Turok2evil]

uhmm ; i think you can put your right foot behind his right foot then fall back and land on him ( maybe throw an elbow into the landing )

[EmoCutter1994]

That seems like it would dislocate his shoulder..

[trollduchaos43]

Well i made judo during 8 years, but if the man in black doesn't release the choke, what happened ?

[PottersBass]

You can submit him with a leg-choke or arm bar. If he hits the ground hard enough he will be out or winded.

[kramerc2]

Very nice. We practice that in Nihon (Japanese) Jiu Jitsu.

It is pronounce Say-Way Nah-Gay

[garynotrashcougar]

nope he pronounced it right

[kdubk93]

if the guy is bigger than you you can drop your knee to the ground and throw him over

[AlbertsJekabsons]

thanks

[AlbertsJekabsons]

is this possible when person is lot heavier than you??

[markymark93]

when you step forward, include a bend in your knees, and then spring up for more leverage

[kramerc2]

most, if not all throws, can be done to a heavier person if you do them right. Your legs are much stronger than you might think

[kylesteinhauser]

you just need to get lower than him. as long as your hips are below his and you rotate properly, anyone can throw anyone.

[randomman057]

I would think so. It disrupts their center of gravity and positions it higher allowing you to throw them. Throwing a heavier would be harder, but I'd imagine it's possible with this type of throw.

[sachamord]

yes you can

im 67 kilos , and i can easely throw a guy of 85

[chriscole11234]

sweet dude. thats kick ass.

[RAINRAWALLIANCE]

I think it is hard to use this and some other lifting moves posted where you have to lift a much taller opponent and heavier opponent. It works great if the opponent is smaller or same size. Do it a with a 220 guy and won't be so easy.

Great other videos here though!

[Donpaeng]

yeah i guess. but it all depends. im a 150 lbs guy but i can do this throw on a 234 lbs 6'2" guy.

but i find it hard doing it in a 225 lbs guy who's my height which is 5'8".

it all depends on leverage and the center of gravity of the opponent. if you practice judo or bjj you would know.

[cryingindian]

Actually its much much easier to throw a taller person... and weight makes no difference because when you do the throw properly you are only using your hips as a pivot point you arent actually lifting them at all

[snapper842002]

i wouldn't say no difference, throwing someone say 600 lb is much more difficult, even with a proper leverage point, because you need to apply more force at the end of the lever, as it were, to lift a larger stone. but for someone in shape, say 180 lb, with very good technique, it's still very possible

[perdedor3571]

not really. the taller the better. we practiced this in bjj and i did it to a 300+ lb 6'0ish guy but im only 5'7" but just like donpaeng said it would be harder if he was my hight.

[ichi2011]

definitely works, used it on multiple occasions.

[irritatedpsycho]

i always forget to step foward and try to throw from a straight stance.

[scotttealey]

... This pivoting action is done while I widen my base, and then (still holding the arm) I turn sharply in the opposite direction using the circling bunt of my re-entering hips, as well as my leg positioning to encourage him to fall. It's similar more to tai otoshi in the end, but at no time must I lift his weight off the ground, and it's quick!

[scotttealey]

I train with a 360 plus pound guy built with the muscle mass and strength of a sumo, and we practice rear naked choke escapes. When he locks it on, instead of stepping forward, I secure the same arm grabbing as presented here, but I turn pivot sharply to my & his right, which breaks/loosens the grip, also puts my hips on his left hip compared to his right as in the vid.

[johnny1250000]

with this move, is the guy absolutely forced to let go of the choke if you pull it off. This is a good move for me as I'm usually in (stickfighting) against taller opponents - i often go for shoulder throw with the open arm - sometimes it doesn't work, but if I give them my neck and execute this, that would be pretty cool.

[sage2324]

what if the guy is alot bigger then you or weighs alot

[scotttealey]

Hey, to answer your question, you'd need one of many variations. I train with a 360 plus pound guy built with the muscle mass and strength of a sumo, and we practice rear naked choke escapes. When he locks it on, instead of stepping forward, I secure the same arm grabbing as presented here, but I turn pivot sharply to my & his right, which breaks/loosens the grip, also puts my hips on his left hip compared to his right as in the vid...

[scotttealey]

Hey, to answer your question, you'd need one of many variations. I train with a 360 plus pound guy built with the muscle mass and strength of a sumo, and we practice rear naked choke escapes. When he locks it on, instead of stepping forward, I secure the same arm grabbing as presented here, but I turn pivot sharply to my & his right, which breaks/loosens the grip, also puts my hips on his left hip compared to his right as in the vid.

[ned1210]

wait so should like lunge ur shoulder or just lean over?

[Cheedillow]

I wouldn't recommend doing this if you're taller than the opponent, drop to your knees.

[theclinger]

Drop Ippon is pretty effective.

[LittleJ2008]

I think Karo Parisyan did this once in UFC. To those of you knocking this move, what's better? Standing there getting choked out or attempting this? I like how these guys demonstrate techniques from other grappling martial arts. They're all evolutions of traditional Japanese Jujutsu which was created by samurai's who needed a way to defeat an armored opponent when they didn't have a sword. Kicking and punching obviously wouldn't work but grappling him to break a joint would.

[87thebull87]

Youre correct, however, Ju Jitsu is still a complete martial art (meaning all aspects of fighting, striking, grappling, weaponry, fitness, etc.) and is as old as japanese civilization being the mother to all Japanese martial arts(Aikido, Judo, Kendo, etc.).

[teddybears54]

GREAT TECH!!! tho there is another. Take both of your hand put them behind your head and squeeze. lol see what happens

[johnhersh]

There is a big risk here. If the person has the choke then pulling down into the arm may just make it worse.... I like tuking my chin ino the elbow, grabbing inside the elbow and the wrist, ansd turning into him or here. if done right you can take him down, otherwise you are out of the choke. Best defense over all..... don't let him get it!!!! as soon as you feel his arm drop elbows to ribs and start turning into him to face... hit hit, run

[kennycalif]

This is an excellent move, if you are experienced and fast enough you can move right into an arm-bar right after the throw!

[chrisizcoool]

whut if he kept holding u in the choke on the way down?

[PrayingMantisFighter]

Rofl... that techinque doesnt work ... Cobra chokes = dont try to move cause anyway ur r dead... As u said if he continue , both are on the ground but one is still behind choked.

[paranoiuhh]

Judo! :D

You guys should show it from like... an MMA situation. Starting from clinch or something. Anyways good video!

[deathblooms38]

what if he jumps in with his hooks.

would that disable the throw

[balepsychobat]

seoi otoshi is when you drop down to your knee or knees and haul the attacker down over the body.

[chexmix323]

shoudn't this throw be more classified as a seo otoshi? or is the jj version differnt from a judo counterpart?

i point this out since seo otoshi is more of the bending forward motion that you make rather than the spring and stright back from of ippon seonage.

but still, i may be mistaken.

[freestylemartialart]

If the opponent is heavy bend the knees then lift them on the back of your hip. This means you need no forward momentum, so if they have turned their side to you, then you can step around first to their front and it still works. freestylemartialart

[Jard40]

Your BRAZILIAN JJ shoulder throw would have to be done immedietly following initial contact with your opponent, not after he has locked his hands together and pulled you backwards off balance (which is something I see your uke FORGOT to do). On your dvd is it discussed that this is an EARLY defence against a standing rear naked choke?

[Jvaughn13]

I agree, when I put someone in a sleeper hold I drag them back. The fact is, for this technique to work, it would have to be instantaneous. Our Dojo has been looking at this technique. Good comment, Jard.

[Submissions101]

If locked in an dragged back there are other moves to goto: drop knee soei nage or see our video: Attempted standing RNC (turn, twist, throw). Every technique has its what ifs and 'you could do this instead'. Therefore, you take the move in the context that it shown. If I was being pulled back, I would have done something else...just like all martial arts moves, one needs to adapt to the situation presented.

[TheSamoan83]

Well said

[PARR53]

@Submissions101 excellent comment. I get so tired of the "what if" or "somebody could do this to you" the truth is every single move in ANY martial art can be countered if excuted poorly or by somebody else whose skilled enough to counter your technique. However odds are almost zero some attacker on the street would even know whats happening before it was too late. I would absolutely love to train in Jujitsu as well and will in the near future.

[79cfonseca]

I find this technique to be very different from the classic judo technique. Would just be better if you were to have your knees a little bend and be on your toes to deliver the throw instead of having to step forward? I think stepping forward opens the door to failure of the technique and takes the power out of the technique.

[Submissions101]

To each their own and its worked of me over 12 years now...every instructor does it differently.

[invalid1210]

Is it possible that someone is so strong that they wont let go and it will result in both of you going down or hurting your neck? or is there a detail to prevent it. I can't find anyone to try this move with.

[Submissions101]

Goto a judo or jiu jitsu school and you'll find lots of guys to do it with. A head butt backwards before the throw is always a good bet to loosen them up before the throw.

[AurumenK]

OK I'm pretty weak and i've tried this one with pretty good effect, to disarm a pipe wielder.  But I accually ran as fast as I could with his arm around my neck and the throw was pretty damaging

[kchs]

It's hard to learn about japanese jujitsu because brazilian jujitsu is so popular.

[Submissions101]

agreed. That is why we want to promote more JJJ on our site in 2009.

[ultimatefighter8888]

for more power you can insted of steping forward, rotate to the inside, put ur feet together, and fall forward while bending ur knees

[AdmiralSolo]

Another way to do this is to step to the side, breaking his balance, then executing the throw by turning. This way you don't have to rely on lifting him, or on your grip not slipping. The problem with stepping forward is that a good choke attempt will include some way of moving your head and shoulders back, preventing this technique from working, while the sidestepping version would be unaffected by a backward lean.

[Submissions101]

Thanks for your input and variation explanation. Its great to get positive and thoughtful posts to help us all!

[AdmiralSolo]

Actually, that is an insight I got at a seminar with Judo 6th dan Bob Rea. He's been teaching to add this to many hip and hand throws, and I have yet to find one it doesn't work with.

[Slice1980]

Another good thing to do when executing the ISN is to look down at your own left foot as your head leads the motion it improves the power you can generate...

[rintohsaka]

Nice seoi nage variation. You might want to throw in seoi otoshi and drop seoi nage as well, just to show the different variations of the throw.

[caseyallerding]

You guys are great. I have been watching your videos and learning for the past year or so, and I was wondering if you could post a video or two of what to do if you get stacked up while in the guard. Someone in my judo class always stacks people up, and I'd like to get a good way to counter that. Thanks for everything -Casey

[silashoughtonbudd]

would there be less weight to lift if you went on to your knees and then did the throw incorporating the throwing effort into the kneeling

[adam757taylor]

hey guys its adam i was the one who requested this video about a week ago or so and just wanted to thank you for responding so fast.. your videos have really helped my jui jitsu skills since classes are so expensive now a days lol. but thanks again

[djsuperstar717]

what if he is taller and lifts you into the air while he puts you in a choke?

happened to me once

[krumbsta]

lol that sounds like a cheap move a big guy pickin on a lil guy ... i would do a mule kick to the nuts but thats me

[japanesemartialarts2]

you try to not let that happen to you but if it does, tuck your chin, either throw elbows or kicks, back and try to get some form of wrist control

[Shadd92]

Disturb he's attack: a stomp on a foot, an ushiro in the balls and things like that, be sure that he will release you to the ground when you hit him in the nuts, then if he's taller than you, is even much ease to execute seoi nage on him.

[EpicurusThirteen]

Do not ever ever ever ever ever rely on the assumption that hitting someone in the [whatever] will make them let go of you.

[TriangleJiuJitsu]

royce's bjj self defense book has the correct response to that situation in it

[sgtjonesiniraq]

When the attacker pulls back...like in your case. You turn and take him backwards. You can always predict where the leg will be.

[wasala12]

are you gonna show take downs too ?

[jokertim777]

Thank you for demonstrating this technique. I studied Judo briefly as a youth and noticed your partner let go of your neck to slap the mat and break his fall (as one is trained to do in the sport). However, what if (as seems more likely in real life) your opponent doesn't release his choke hold. I envision there being serious pressure being applied to your neck and both persons ending up on the ground. Is this not so?

[Submissions101]

There are many variables in real life of course. The physics behind the throw and the autonomic reaction to 'let go' and 'break your fall' is VERY strong. The fact that the body weight and gravity are also working for you would make this extremely unlikely. It is more likely that they'd pull you back and attempt to pull you down that way. I've never seen anyone who have been able to hold on as they went right over the back. But, if it did happen and it went to the ground-thank goodness for jj;-)

[chingonraza]

Wouldn't he still land on the ground at high speed probably getting seriously injured

[OneShotStop229]

Well, a friend of mine in my Judo class actually got into the habit of holding on. Maybe it's a judo thing but any throw almost always ended up on the ground. But I agree, the untrained person will have the natural reaction to let go and try and break their fall. Hopefully the fall wrong and break their collar bone. That'll teach them to choke me haha.

And I agree man, thank goodness for jj (or just j in my case haha)

[looker768]

Is there a kneeling version of that? I'm a beginner and was trying to throw my opponent after being in the same choke position in the video but we were on our knees. My sensei stopped the match though because it was first day and he the guy was choking me...just out of curiosity is there a better way out of that position?

[moogwol]

if he has taken your back but has not yet gotten his hooks in. press his forearm to the floor, raise your ass in the air, and dip your shoulder to the ground. he should slide off into a north-south position

[ltjgbadass]

Do I do this like an Irish Wip?

Or totally different?

[peacemaker281]

Great video Ari on a classic and effective move from judo. Many thanks.

[kbudha]

You guys rock. Most BJJ practitioners totally overlook judo. Thank you for not doing the same. Good shit.

[Submissions101]

Judo rocks man...no doubt about it. This is found also found in JJJ (that is where I learned it).

[cygroltd]

Great work man!

Just a question how do you counter if the attacker pulls you backwards and brake's your posture

so that you can not lean forward to throw him?

Thanks

[Submissions101]

Push back into the attacker and turn quickly into the choking arm. See our other attack from the rear for details:

watch?v=eGehFPbYNIo it will give you the basic idea.

[cygroltd]

Thanks.

These moves are included in BJJ self defense but I had tottaly forgotten about the second move.

[ShakaUVM]

Yeah, I did 6 years of Judo before getting into BJJ to learn more groundwork. Love it, and thanks for putting more of it on your channel. =)

[kenshin715]

Great technique!5 stars

[MOUNTAINOUS]

this is a great technique 5 stars

[groovybiatch]

this ones aesome

[johnny1250000]

I noticed that the guy attacking seemed to be up on his tiptoes trying to get the choke. Does this technique work well if the attacker is much taller?

[Submissions101]

Works BETTER as you center of gravity is below your attacker and thus the principle behind most nage waza (throws) of the martial arts.

[turismogamer]

for anyone who doesn't know, you can also drop to your knees, with enough speed and momentum it looks class.

[Submissions101]

Yes-the drop seio nage is also an option.

[Darbzznc]

I've heard you guys say something about a dvd named lights out i went onto your site but i couldn't find it in the online store

[Submissions101]

Sold out of Lights Out last year. Right now we have Earthbound DVD for sale.

[KillRalph]

Where can I buy your DVD?

[Submissions101]

Visit our main site to order.

[drukenhard]

how can you defend if he gets a hook in on the opposite side to the arm that's wrapped around?

Is it just a matter of pulling his arm down from your throat so you can turn into him?

[mrdogg]

IMO. If you step across to the left with your left foot this should loosen the choke and also stop them getting the hook in. It also creates a good position to throw. As always there are many ways to skin a cat, but this is just how I do it.

[djchangsta]

ol school move that still works:)

[womenlover100]

cooool!!!!!!! move

[WhtMike2006]

It's actually spelled Seoi.

[ShinsengumiTaicho1]

Alright! Been waiting for the update to the throw section. Thanks, Ari!

[MCDWREK]

I did this to one of my BJJ buddies naturally once when he tried to choke me. Of course he was fooling around but it was still funny (to me and everyone else there).

[chrism95]

great move =)

[ebsouljah]

all this while praying to god he dosent put his hooks in..

[6665948]

What happens if he wraps his legs around your waste midway through that move?

[Hotora86]

Fall down on your back smashing him with your body maybe?

[Ssynthx]

falling down on your back will just land you in more trouble.

[Submissions101]

Agreed. The whole point in a real fight is stay standing and throw your attacker if possible. Why hit him with you hand when you can hit him with the ground. The ground is much harder and bigger than your hand anyway ;-).

[javelinclark]

Wow awesome move, i did it when i was black, u actually twist ur hips when u throw, but if he pull u backwards, like dragging u down.

[DarkBeam]

when you were black??? lol btw does this work if the person is already choking you?