I'm Wiccan,and I coexist in both worlds.I do believe in a Deity,but I've no doubt that the Big Bang and evolution(both macro and micro) are scientific fact.
happy co-existance? what about tons of money being spent on religious schools? i doubt that religion shows a fair version of science, merely twist it to appeal to the larger masses and corrupt it into a faded evil shape of it former self
@FDASARO People who say that don't understand the context of the times, the focus of the world on religious rule in those times (it's not the same anymore by ANY standard, including Shariah Law in the most fundamentalist of Muslim nations). You're wrong, you're ignorant and you misuse the word apologist because you don't understand what it means.
@elatus See if your library has the audio course Science and Religion published by the Teaching Company. An interesting and detailed discussion of Galileo conflict with the church. It gave me a very different perspective on this affair. I think you'd find it interesting.
@elatus Galileo was eventually acknowledged as correct and the Catholic church openly apologized to him and his namesake, including scientists the world over. Also, that WAS centuries ago.
I do think God is real, and I do think someday we will have advanced sufficiently to know him/her/it. Until then we should pursue science will all our strength, because only by searching and learning more can we truly know what is out there.
@Dualhammers What would be sufficient evident to know him/her/it? Also, what if we find intelligent life elsewhere in the universe first? Wouldn't that undermine faith in most ways and conclude that there's no personal god?
@Derham21 I consider the problem akin to string theory or dark matter. We know vaguely what a thing is but are unsure what evidence is sufficient since we, at the time of the first theories, could not fully understand how to look.
As for intelligent life on other planets undermining the existence of a God I would have to say no. Speaking merely from a Biblical perspective there is nowhere in the Bible where it says that aliens do not exist nor can they not exist.
@Dualhammers You make a good point regarding string theory; however, I don't think the study of God and Theology are comparable. The scientific process can be performed on dark matter and string theory, such as is happening now, in order to prove a hypothesis either right or wrong. The idea of god, by its very essence, is immune to evidence, and that's where I believe the problem lies.
@Dualhammers And the Bible never explicitly says that other intelligent life can't exist, but the whole idea behind it is that we're made in god's image, and that we're the sole focus of his existence. If we were to find one or many other intelligent species on other planets, that would blow that notion right out of the water, and it'd be hard to say that one religion is right or another wrong when you're staring at alien lifeforms.
@Dualhammers Perhaps a certain idea of God, maybe, but in my mind God has always been something that we can come to perceive at least in part. Who knows, though. Our brains are only capable of so much. That being said, what is the point if not to try? Just because we can't fathom a 4th dimension without shortcuts doesn't mean we should give up learning about them.
@Dualhammers I don't think you can use things that are NOT in the Bible as justification for certain claims. In this case, absence of evidence would be evidence of absence, because god creating more than one earth with life on it would be pretty huge. So huge that you would expect it to be mentioned in the story of creation.
@lagerbaer I will have to disagree with you. It is very common for people to think that if someone is not in the Bible and they feel it ought to have been than it means it has no bearing or can't be true. The theories of relativity and quantum mechanics don't mention each other and yet many scientists believe that both are true and the unifying evidence is out there.
The second point is that it is a fallacy to assume if something was "important" it would be included. But I run out of chara-
@Dualhammers Uhm yeah, one scientific theory doesn't have to make direct mention of another if the theories are used to explain different phenomena. But if you claim to hold in your hands the one and only true source describing the origin of the universe, it better be damn comprehensive.
@lagerbaer But again, saying that it "better be damn comprehensive" is a normative opinion based on modern scientific methodology. Things have changed, and the way they have been documented changes with how humans express themselves.
Not trying to say this is any sort of definitive proof but I hope you can examine your own thinking on the subject and see how the reasoning may be flawed.
I'm usually very distracted when it comes to religion. I listen to Sam Harris, and I think, "Yes, he is absolutely correct." Religion does have a negative impact on peoples thinking, because it stops us from questioning. If it's a social gathering, than call it something else, but don't call it religion if that is the only reason why you attend church.
@Reasonwillprevail14 why when you have a religion you will stop thinking? I feel that atheists think that they are clever and the rest are naive? for me science is an evidence against athiesim and prove that there is god.
and claiming negative things to religion is unreasonable bec. there was always someone believing in something that doesnt mean it's the motive even if he gave it a religious cover as an excuse for his acts. always will find another excuse anyway.
@seedo201 It is not possible for science to be evidence against atheism. That is like saying we will find virginity through sex. On cleverness....it is the one thing that exist in the intelligent, the smart, and the complete stupid. I have never known or observed an atheist that thought they were clever or that the religious were naive; it would be more that the religious are brainwashed and closed-minded. You will find that once most all atheist were actually quite religious and seeking god.
@TheYTViolation yeah science prove that there is god bec. that perfect world can made itself. science shows that not bec. you dont see it so it doesnt exist so if you dont believe in god is like you dont believe in atom or gravity bec. you cant see it. that is narrow minded. for me I can't believe that only mutations teach the cells all works in harmony and become an organ by themselves or by chance. that's unlogic that algae could be that smart to start all life by chance.
@seedo201 Science has never proven that there is a god. I truly do not know where you came up with this.
First of all, if you make a claim something is there,. the burden of proof is on you, not the person that doubts you. If I understand you, you are saying that something cannot just exist, it has to have been made or created by a higher power so therefore you can not believe that something exist without knowing where it came from. Is this correct?
@seedo201, Science does not try to prove or disprove god. Science is completely silent on god though around 40% of scientists accept Evolution, the Big Bang and believe in god and it does not interfere with their research.
Science only deals in the natural world and never the supernatural world. Anyone claiming that science proves or disproves god is either a liar or delusional.
This is why a god is based on Faith because if there was proof man would no longer need Faith.
@casyatbat exactly! so religion doesnt stop science. but always athiests say religion makes you narrow minded and it doenst makes sense. it's like saying you are bad in math cuz you like chocklate. doesnt make sense:)
@seedo201, I am Agnostic, Yes this whole debate is due to Fundamentalist Christians who want to force religion into science via Intelligent Design.
Scientists many who are Christians like Ken Miller in the Dover trial are fighting for science as those that finance the Discovery Institute want to stop science in public schools due to their political ideas. They want the U.S. to become a theocracy like Iran, lead be Evangelicals.
Google or search YT for "Wedge Strategy" & "Discovery Institute".
@casyatbat yeah but they always give the western favorite dark picture of islam neglecting the fact that islam in the begining was so enlightened until some adde their tribal habbits to make ruling nations easier so it become what we see now. of course you have totaly another picture cuz the most published arabic books in the west support that even it have no echo in the place that it come from
@seedo201,,Theocracies,monarchies, dictatorships, despots, totalitarian and anything other that democracies should be looked at darkly. I feel bad for the people of Saudi Arabia whose people are govern in a monarchy/Islamic fundamentalist government where apostasy is practiced.
Where Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers and were burned alive.
@casyatbat burn people alive? I never heard of that. of course it's not a democracy and not the best ruling way but of course there is exageration as I met saudis and they dont like some but they like their way of life even if you dont like it. the problem of the west that they want everybody just copy and look for everything different as it backward not that everything have adv. and disadv. what you feel pitty for may be happier than you:)
@seedo201, All you have to do is google "BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue".
The great majority of all people age good as said best by Steven Weinberg
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.".
The more a person is a fundamentalist the more out of reality their world is.
We have are own nut cases like Rev Phelps & Qu'ran burning Terry Jones.
@MsPinecone123, I read it in the articles written about the In the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial.
Keep spreading the word on these evil people masquerading religion as science for political reasons. They are our version of the Mullahs and Ayatollah who want to take us back in time where the church in allegiance with those in power want to control us and chance the U.S from a secular country to a theocracy.
@seedo201 we were all born atheists my friend, the unfortunate part is that seeds were planted in the mind at an early age, indoctrination if you will. Science is beautiful, the very idea of it is a theory is not good enough unless it is proven. "Science is not just a body of knowledge, it's a way of thinking." -CS
@Reasonwillprevail14 I believe that we all born know god then wwe began to neglect the perfection of what surrounds us. science is beautifull ofcourse. it makes you humble cuz as far as you learn, you know that you learnd so little. and science teach how much that world is perfect and come by just trial and error but it's perfectly built and calculated. science is making athiesim fragile. it may break false religions but not god existance.
@seedo201, , I'm glad you said "I believe that we all born know god", as it is an opinion. I believe we are all born Atheists but religious indoctrination by well meaning parents is what conditions people to believe in god.
Science has no interest and is completely silent when it comes to god and the supernatural. God and science coexisted happily until fundamentalist Christians manufactured the science controversy.
Popes Benedict XVI, John Paul II & Pius XII accept Evolution and the Big Bang.
@casyatbat I think we all know from inside what is right and what is wrong even if there is no law control it and even the most primitve nations have some kind of god cuz it's unreasonable all that perfectness arond us came by chance or by mistake. I believe in evolution as an evidence of that perfectness of adaptation and fitting with the enviroment as a mercy. all science prove how foolish to think that it's just came by chance and not designed.
@seedo201, This is true, the most primitive are the most superstitious and the most educated are the most atheistic like Sweden, Norway, Denmark.
I don't know where you find perfection in a world of hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, droughts, earthquakes, poverty, disease, genocide, starvation, war, torture and strife.
Science has nothing to do with god or religion and only describes the natural world based on the best evidence and is self correcting unlike the bible.
@casyatbat true but dont you see that everything is perfectly calculated? even the phenomenas is greatly explained in science as it is engineered and the more perfect in it even if how much is hard you find a kind of life adapting to it and fitting in it. you can find in Sweden higher rate of suicide and using antidepressant more than poor africa that they are always laughing even if their life grinding them.
@seedo201, The reason you see everything calculated perfectly is because life evolved in Earth's environment. 99% of all life has gone extinct. What we have now is life suited for our natural environment.
Dr. Tyson says it well on the following clip:
Intelligent Design? - Neil deGrasse Tyson
watch?v=Weu7Rh6dYrM
Google for countries with the highest suicide rates as Sweden, Norway and Denmark are not highest.
Then google the lowest murder or highest murder rate & Atheist countries are the lowest.
@casyatbat may be my example wasnt good cuz it depends on equality and other things not religion but what I meant that adaptation is a prove how what you think it's mess is perfectly calculated. or we wont have physics and science. it's a prove of how it's perfect and cant come by mistake.
@seedo201, Did you watch the Dr. Tyson clip I recommended? Life has taken 3.5 billion years old to evolve where we are now. If you wish to believe that a go did it, I have no problem with that though I don't agree without any evidence.
With 99% of all life already extinct we can say life is not perfect as only1% has survived to this point. DNA is what allows life to evolve and adapt to it's current environment. Those that are very successful evolve slower like the ancient crocodile.
@casyatbat yeah I watched and look resonable but I thaught science teach that whatever you learned you still know little and you have to doubt and still with this examples unlogic for me to be made by chance. maybe some seems that they can do better :) but if he is so genious what is life? for me that cant come by chance. if it's unfair and you disagree by how it managed. well I had the chance to live in poor and rich countries and dont believe that one is happier than other.
@seedo201, Religion has been with us since the first civilizations. Stories like Noah have been in ancient civilizations as such myths were centered around rivers that were prone to flooding during certain seasons.
They believed that, they were in the center of the world but that the world was not much larger than their country and that flood was done by an angry god.
Dr. Tyson has said that he believes that science only knows about 4% of everything but does not accept the god of the gaps.
@casyatbat true. he's analaysis is great but he admits that we know 4%. what he see is gaps cuz he dont know why it's like that. what he see is going wrong is bec. he dont know why. he is waiting for zeus to send lightnings but it doesnt need lightnings to prove cuz when you see how stars so moving so much calculated and think it's just a mistake and showing some deformities cuz he dont like it and see it's unfair then admit that he know 4%. so dig deaper:)
@seedo201, In my opinion we no know maybe 0.01% of everything or less. Our science and knowledge is very primitive in relation to the age and size of the Universe.
When Ben Franklin "tamed" electricity 200 years ago, the world thought lightning and thunder was done by an angry god.
That is why it is called the god of the gaps. Once we say we don't know so we say god did it, god becomes smaller as we discovery how our natural world works and why the Popes now accept Evolution and the Big Bang.
@casyatbat I'm the other way around. when I know I believe more that there must be a god did it. it's impossible to all that built by mistake or chance cuz how many chances for cancer cell to behave that smart or virus to be the line bet. what is living and not . it's just a strnd of dna and a chell. for me that cant come by chance. is someone see it's easy so tell him to put a pile of wood and wait to build itself to house. what is great that everything logic so we can see and know :)
@seedo201, In that case god made the cancer cells. If a god created everything then he created all the diseases. God has either enjoys watching babies and children suffering and finally dying from diseases or those diseases are based on a DNA that is passed from family to family like diabetes and other hereditary diseases.
I think we've taken this as far as we can. You believe in god and don't need any evidence because you have faith. I'm Agnostic and don't accept any man made gods.
@casyatbat thanks and it was intersting talking to you but you are agnostic so what we argue about cuz that means you believe in god but you didnt find the best instructions that could be fitting to be from god :). I dont believe he injoy seeing diseases but he makes differences so everybody apreciate what he have. mostly who dont believe is the healthier and wealthier as you gave the examples of the countries:)
@seedo201, Ok, 1 more time. I'm Agnostic and reject all man made gods invented by man. I don't know if there are powers like gods in a timeless an infinite Universe. There may be, I don't know. That is what Agnosticism means at least my view as that meaning is not monolithic.
The god that the Abrahamic religions follow allows War, disease, torture, rape, starvation, genocide, poverty and babies to be born with hideous diseases. That is not a god of love but one of indifference in my opinion.
But Neil, the small amount of religious people who do have a problem with science scream the loudest....making us think there are many of them.
Nedspodos 1 month ago
I'm Wiccan,and I coexist in both worlds.I do believe in a Deity,but I've no doubt that the Big Bang and evolution(both macro and micro) are scientific fact.
proud2bpagan 2 months ago
"Creationism has no more place in the schools than evolution does in the pulpit"~Lisa Simpson.
proud2bpagan 2 months ago 2
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happy co-existance? what about tons of money being spent on religious schools? i doubt that religion shows a fair version of science, merely twist it to appeal to the larger masses and corrupt it into a faded evil shape of it former self
RawSwedishMeatball 2 months ago
Wait....Churches have pie now?!
DarthDefiler 2 months ago 5
@DarthDefiler yup..if they're Southern Baptist,lol. I used grew up Southern Baptist..there was always some sort of eating functions going on.
proud2bpagan 2 months ago
Neil would not be a religious apologist if he was living in Galileo's time
FDASARO 2 months ago
@FDASARO People who say that don't understand the context of the times, the focus of the world on religious rule in those times (it's not the same anymore by ANY standard, including Shariah Law in the most fundamentalist of Muslim nations). You're wrong, you're ignorant and you misuse the word apologist because you don't understand what it means.
zembryoz 1 month ago
That tie is fucking PIMP.
ThanatosBeMyGuide 2 months ago
"There has been a happy co-existence for centuries" ? I'm not sure Galileo would agree.
elatus 2 months ago 33
@elatus Giordano Bruno even less so.
NiteSaiya 2 months ago
@elatus See if your library has the audio course Science and Religion published by the Teaching Company. An interesting and detailed discussion of Galileo conflict with the church. It gave me a very different perspective on this affair. I think you'd find it interesting.
soslothful 2 months ago
@elatus Galileo was eventually acknowledged as correct and the Catholic church openly apologized to him and his namesake, including scientists the world over. Also, that WAS centuries ago.
zembryoz 1 month ago
Religion = bullshit
coopmuch56 3 months ago
I don't consider myself a religious person these days but I know that not every single religious person is like the psychos in JESUS CAMP.
ThePhantom135 3 months ago
I do think God is real, and I do think someday we will have advanced sufficiently to know him/her/it. Until then we should pursue science will all our strength, because only by searching and learning more can we truly know what is out there.
Dualhammers 3 months ago
@Dualhammers What would be sufficient evident to know him/her/it? Also, what if we find intelligent life elsewhere in the universe first? Wouldn't that undermine faith in most ways and conclude that there's no personal god?
Derham21 3 months ago
@Derham21 I consider the problem akin to string theory or dark matter. We know vaguely what a thing is but are unsure what evidence is sufficient since we, at the time of the first theories, could not fully understand how to look.
As for intelligent life on other planets undermining the existence of a God I would have to say no. Speaking merely from a Biblical perspective there is nowhere in the Bible where it says that aliens do not exist nor can they not exist.
Dualhammers 3 months ago
@Dualhammers You make a good point regarding string theory; however, I don't think the study of God and Theology are comparable. The scientific process can be performed on dark matter and string theory, such as is happening now, in order to prove a hypothesis either right or wrong. The idea of god, by its very essence, is immune to evidence, and that's where I believe the problem lies.
Derham21 3 months ago
@Dualhammers And the Bible never explicitly says that other intelligent life can't exist, but the whole idea behind it is that we're made in god's image, and that we're the sole focus of his existence. If we were to find one or many other intelligent species on other planets, that would blow that notion right out of the water, and it'd be hard to say that one religion is right or another wrong when you're staring at alien lifeforms.
Derham21 3 months ago
@Dualhammers Perhaps a certain idea of God, maybe, but in my mind God has always been something that we can come to perceive at least in part. Who knows, though. Our brains are only capable of so much. That being said, what is the point if not to try? Just because we can't fathom a 4th dimension without shortcuts doesn't mean we should give up learning about them.
Dualhammers 3 months ago
@Dualhammers I don't think you can use things that are NOT in the Bible as justification for certain claims. In this case, absence of evidence would be evidence of absence, because god creating more than one earth with life on it would be pretty huge. So huge that you would expect it to be mentioned in the story of creation.
lagerbaer 2 months ago
@lagerbaer I will have to disagree with you. It is very common for people to think that if someone is not in the Bible and they feel it ought to have been than it means it has no bearing or can't be true. The theories of relativity and quantum mechanics don't mention each other and yet many scientists believe that both are true and the unifying evidence is out there.
The second point is that it is a fallacy to assume if something was "important" it would be included. But I run out of chara-
Dualhammers 2 months ago
@Dualhammers Uhm yeah, one scientific theory doesn't have to make direct mention of another if the theories are used to explain different phenomena. But if you claim to hold in your hands the one and only true source describing the origin of the universe, it better be damn comprehensive.
lagerbaer 2 months ago
@lagerbaer But again, saying that it "better be damn comprehensive" is a normative opinion based on modern scientific methodology. Things have changed, and the way they have been documented changes with how humans express themselves.
Not trying to say this is any sort of definitive proof but I hope you can examine your own thinking on the subject and see how the reasoning may be flawed.
Dualhammers 2 months ago
Watch out, we're dealing with a badass over here.
lkp74 3 months ago 36
@lkp74 God damn you.
mohammedlink 2 months ago
he seems like a kind soul
cavhoki 3 months ago
Neil DeGrasse Tyson's wife is a lucky woman to be married to such a brilliant and tolerant man.
SubtleIntricacy 3 months ago
Neil deGrasse Tyson is a great and inspirational man.
STHowell80 4 months ago
I'm usually very distracted when it comes to religion. I listen to Sam Harris, and I think, "Yes, he is absolutely correct." Religion does have a negative impact on peoples thinking, because it stops us from questioning. If it's a social gathering, than call it something else, but don't call it religion if that is the only reason why you attend church.
Reasonwillprevail14 6 months ago
@Reasonwillprevail14 why when you have a religion you will stop thinking? I feel that atheists think that they are clever and the rest are naive? for me science is an evidence against athiesim and prove that there is god.
and claiming negative things to religion is unreasonable bec. there was always someone believing in something that doesnt mean it's the motive even if he gave it a religious cover as an excuse for his acts. always will find another excuse anyway.
seedo201 4 months ago
@seedo201 It is not possible for science to be evidence against atheism. That is like saying we will find virginity through sex. On cleverness....it is the one thing that exist in the intelligent, the smart, and the complete stupid. I have never known or observed an atheist that thought they were clever or that the religious were naive; it would be more that the religious are brainwashed and closed-minded. You will find that once most all atheist were actually quite religious and seeking god.
TheYTViolation 4 months ago
@TheYTViolation yeah science prove that there is god bec. that perfect world can made itself. science shows that not bec. you dont see it so it doesnt exist so if you dont believe in god is like you dont believe in atom or gravity bec. you cant see it. that is narrow minded. for me I can't believe that only mutations teach the cells all works in harmony and become an organ by themselves or by chance. that's unlogic that algae could be that smart to start all life by chance.
seedo201 4 months ago
@seedo201 Science has never proven that there is a god. I truly do not know where you came up with this.
First of all, if you make a claim something is there,. the burden of proof is on you, not the person that doubts you. If I understand you, you are saying that something cannot just exist, it has to have been made or created by a higher power so therefore you can not believe that something exist without knowing where it came from. Is this correct?
TheYTViolation 4 months ago
@seedo201, Science does not try to prove or disprove god. Science is completely silent on god though around 40% of scientists accept Evolution, the Big Bang and believe in god and it does not interfere with their research.
Science only deals in the natural world and never the supernatural world. Anyone claiming that science proves or disproves god is either a liar or delusional.
This is why a god is based on Faith because if there was proof man would no longer need Faith.
casyatbat 4 months ago
@casyatbat exactly! so religion doesnt stop science. but always athiests say religion makes you narrow minded and it doenst makes sense. it's like saying you are bad in math cuz you like chocklate. doesnt make sense:)
seedo201 4 months ago
@seedo201, I am Agnostic, Yes this whole debate is due to Fundamentalist Christians who want to force religion into science via Intelligent Design.
Scientists many who are Christians like Ken Miller in the Dover trial are fighting for science as those that finance the Discovery Institute want to stop science in public schools due to their political ideas. They want the U.S. to become a theocracy like Iran, lead be Evangelicals.
Google or search YT for "Wedge Strategy" & "Discovery Institute".
casyatbat 4 months ago
@casyatbat yeah but they always give the western favorite dark picture of islam neglecting the fact that islam in the begining was so enlightened until some adde their tribal habbits to make ruling nations easier so it become what we see now. of course you have totaly another picture cuz the most published arabic books in the west support that even it have no echo in the place that it come from
seedo201 4 months ago
@seedo201,,Theocracies,monarchies, dictatorships, despots, totalitarian and anything other that democracies should be looked at darkly. I feel bad for the people of Saudi Arabia whose people are govern in a monarchy/Islamic fundamentalist government where apostasy is practiced.
Where Saudi Arabia's religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers and were burned alive.
That is tyranny.
casyatbat 4 months ago
@casyatbat burn people alive? I never heard of that. of course it's not a democracy and not the best ruling way but of course there is exageration as I met saudis and they dont like some but they like their way of life even if you dont like it. the problem of the west that they want everybody just copy and look for everything different as it backward not that everything have adv. and disadv. what you feel pitty for may be happier than you:)
seedo201 4 months ago
@seedo201, All you have to do is google "BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Saudi police 'stopped' fire rescue".
The great majority of all people age good as said best by Steven Weinberg
"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.".
The more a person is a fundamentalist the more out of reality their world is.
We have are own nut cases like Rev Phelps & Qu'ran burning Terry Jones.
casyatbat 4 months ago
@casyatbat
Wow good to hear others know about the Wedge Strategy. Did a paper on the Discovery Institute and stumbled upon it. Evil, evil people.
MsPinecone123 3 months ago
@MsPinecone123, I read it in the articles written about the In the 2005 Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District trial.
Keep spreading the word on these evil people masquerading religion as science for political reasons. They are our version of the Mullahs and Ayatollah who want to take us back in time where the church in allegiance with those in power want to control us and chance the U.S from a secular country to a theocracy.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@seedo201 we were all born atheists my friend, the unfortunate part is that seeds were planted in the mind at an early age, indoctrination if you will. Science is beautiful, the very idea of it is a theory is not good enough unless it is proven. "Science is not just a body of knowledge, it's a way of thinking." -CS
Reasonwillprevail14 3 months ago
@Reasonwillprevail14 I believe that we all born know god then wwe began to neglect the perfection of what surrounds us. science is beautifull ofcourse. it makes you humble cuz as far as you learn, you know that you learnd so little. and science teach how much that world is perfect and come by just trial and error but it's perfectly built and calculated. science is making athiesim fragile. it may break false religions but not god existance.
seedo201 3 months ago
Comment removed
casyatbat 3 months ago
@seedo201, , I'm glad you said "I believe that we all born know god", as it is an opinion. I believe we are all born Atheists but religious indoctrination by well meaning parents is what conditions people to believe in god.
Science has no interest and is completely silent when it comes to god and the supernatural. God and science coexisted happily until fundamentalist Christians manufactured the science controversy.
Popes Benedict XVI, John Paul II & Pius XII accept Evolution and the Big Bang.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat I think we all know from inside what is right and what is wrong even if there is no law control it and even the most primitve nations have some kind of god cuz it's unreasonable all that perfectness arond us came by chance or by mistake. I believe in evolution as an evidence of that perfectness of adaptation and fitting with the enviroment as a mercy. all science prove how foolish to think that it's just came by chance and not designed.
seedo201 3 months ago
@seedo201, This is true, the most primitive are the most superstitious and the most educated are the most atheistic like Sweden, Norway, Denmark.
I don't know where you find perfection in a world of hurricanes, tsunamis, floods, droughts, earthquakes, poverty, disease, genocide, starvation, war, torture and strife.
Science has nothing to do with god or religion and only describes the natural world based on the best evidence and is self correcting unlike the bible.
There is no proof of a god.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat true but dont you see that everything is perfectly calculated? even the phenomenas is greatly explained in science as it is engineered and the more perfect in it even if how much is hard you find a kind of life adapting to it and fitting in it. you can find in Sweden higher rate of suicide and using antidepressant more than poor africa that they are always laughing even if their life grinding them.
the prove of god is life. look around you:)
seedo201 3 months ago
@seedo201, The reason you see everything calculated perfectly is because life evolved in Earth's environment. 99% of all life has gone extinct. What we have now is life suited for our natural environment.
Dr. Tyson says it well on the following clip:
Intelligent Design? - Neil deGrasse Tyson
watch?v=Weu7Rh6dYrM
Google for countries with the highest suicide rates as Sweden, Norway and Denmark are not highest.
Then google the lowest murder or highest murder rate & Atheist countries are the lowest.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat may be my example wasnt good cuz it depends on equality and other things not religion but what I meant that adaptation is a prove how what you think it's mess is perfectly calculated. or we wont have physics and science. it's a prove of how it's perfect and cant come by mistake.
seedo201 3 months ago
@seedo201, Did you watch the Dr. Tyson clip I recommended? Life has taken 3.5 billion years old to evolve where we are now. If you wish to believe that a go did it, I have no problem with that though I don't agree without any evidence.
With 99% of all life already extinct we can say life is not perfect as only1% has survived to this point. DNA is what allows life to evolve and adapt to it's current environment. Those that are very successful evolve slower like the ancient crocodile.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat yeah I watched and look resonable but I thaught science teach that whatever you learned you still know little and you have to doubt and still with this examples unlogic for me to be made by chance. maybe some seems that they can do better :) but if he is so genious what is life? for me that cant come by chance. if it's unfair and you disagree by how it managed. well I had the chance to live in poor and rich countries and dont believe that one is happier than other.
seedo201 3 months ago
@seedo201, Religion has been with us since the first civilizations. Stories like Noah have been in ancient civilizations as such myths were centered around rivers that were prone to flooding during certain seasons.
They believed that, they were in the center of the world but that the world was not much larger than their country and that flood was done by an angry god.
Dr. Tyson has said that he believes that science only knows about 4% of everything but does not accept the god of the gaps.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat true. he's analaysis is great but he admits that we know 4%. what he see is gaps cuz he dont know why it's like that. what he see is going wrong is bec. he dont know why. he is waiting for zeus to send lightnings but it doesnt need lightnings to prove cuz when you see how stars so moving so much calculated and think it's just a mistake and showing some deformities cuz he dont like it and see it's unfair then admit that he know 4%. so dig deaper:)
seedo201 3 months ago
@seedo201, In my opinion we no know maybe 0.01% of everything or less. Our science and knowledge is very primitive in relation to the age and size of the Universe.
When Ben Franklin "tamed" electricity 200 years ago, the world thought lightning and thunder was done by an angry god.
That is why it is called the god of the gaps. Once we say we don't know so we say god did it, god becomes smaller as we discovery how our natural world works and why the Popes now accept Evolution and the Big Bang.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat I'm the other way around. when I know I believe more that there must be a god did it. it's impossible to all that built by mistake or chance cuz how many chances for cancer cell to behave that smart or virus to be the line bet. what is living and not . it's just a strnd of dna and a chell. for me that cant come by chance. is someone see it's easy so tell him to put a pile of wood and wait to build itself to house. what is great that everything logic so we can see and know :)
seedo201 3 months ago
@seedo201, In that case god made the cancer cells. If a god created everything then he created all the diseases. God has either enjoys watching babies and children suffering and finally dying from diseases or those diseases are based on a DNA that is passed from family to family like diabetes and other hereditary diseases.
I think we've taken this as far as we can. You believe in god and don't need any evidence because you have faith. I'm Agnostic and don't accept any man made gods.
Good luck!
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat thanks and it was intersting talking to you but you are agnostic so what we argue about cuz that means you believe in god but you didnt find the best instructions that could be fitting to be from god :). I dont believe he injoy seeing diseases but he makes differences so everybody apreciate what he have. mostly who dont believe is the healthier and wealthier as you gave the examples of the countries:)
seedo201 3 months ago
@seedo201, Ok, 1 more time. I'm Agnostic and reject all man made gods invented by man. I don't know if there are powers like gods in a timeless an infinite Universe. There may be, I don't know. That is what Agnosticism means at least my view as that meaning is not monolithic.
The god that the Abrahamic religions follow allows War, disease, torture, rape, starvation, genocide, poverty and babies to be born with hideous diseases. That is not a god of love but one of indifference in my opinion.
casyatbat 3 months ago
@casyatbat yeah I understand. I ve been there before.
seedo201 3 months ago