I'm assuming your one of the type of christians who would say i'm going to heaven because even though i don't believe, i'm honest about why i don't. To avoid the "None come to the father but by me" thing dooming me to either Hell, or a lesser afterlife for being honest.
Strange to have it phrased in a way which suggests that given what i've got, God himself would (being honest and good) be in the same position as me; given the facts.
I'm supposed to be throwing you up against your lack of empiricle evidence for your claim - a reminder that Jesus can't want to save us honest folk who only accept into our hearts what can be verified and demonstrated to be accurate.
The only people he wants in heaven are the gullible, credulous and dishonest.
Unfortunatly, its quite common for a human to develop a mental coping mechanism during hardship.
Imaginery friends, amnesia and all manner of illusions. Unfortunatly if they persist after they've done the job of stabilising you - they remain a lasting negative effect. Rage, violent thoughts, fear, sadness.
All need to be handled by the rational mind for a person to be healthy, in my opinion.
You control your feelings; you're not forgiven for having them.
I've got all the evidence in the cosmos to suggest that God isn't reponcible for you being here.
For example "God as your Creator"
You do realise that your mother and father turned food and drink into a brand new human being all by themselves, right?
This goes to my point about maternal birth pains vastly overwhelming the sacrifice of jesus. You owe your ancestors more than you can imagine - but don't honour them with being responcible for you; you give that to God.
In one of the parts that I edited out I said you could love and admire the character even if you thought he was fictional or mostly fictional. This is not unlike having a favorite hero from the movies.
"Jesus was a much better man"
Really? You think that is a fair contest? Me Vs God incarnate?
Its like i'm a normal player and he's cheating. He was built perfect; i deal with the DNA and upbringing i was given.
Let God give it a go with just a smattering of primate DNA, as a scientist, an honest skeptic on a planet full of various religious loonies.
Blessed with a modicum of intelligence, lets see if he can honestly believe in himself with no evidence in favor; and every shred against.
ackmonra 2 years ago
I am very sympathetic with this argument even though I do not in the end find it compelling.
robvandjdk 2 years ago
Its the honesty argument.
I'm assuming your one of the type of christians who would say i'm going to heaven because even though i don't believe, i'm honest about why i don't. To avoid the "None come to the father but by me" thing dooming me to either Hell, or a lesser afterlife for being honest.
Strange to have it phrased in a way which suggests that given what i've got, God himself would (being honest and good) be in the same position as me; given the facts.
Hard to argue against, i've found.
ackmonra 2 years ago
I'm supposed to be throwing you up against your lack of empiricle evidence for your claim - a reminder that Jesus can't want to save us honest folk who only accept into our hearts what can be verified and demonstrated to be accurate.
The only people he wants in heaven are the gullible, credulous and dishonest.
As all believers are atleast one of the above.
ackmonra 2 years ago
"My willingness to end it for humanity"
If i were offered a deal like; faster-than-light travel for humanity in exchange for my life.
I would do it - unquestioningly. I understand the power of such advancement and what it would be worth.
But unlike Jesus; i'd willingly; gladly accept eternal oblivion. It isn't that hard and there are millions of humans who would do the same.
And are all therefore, better than Jesus; its not just me.
ackmonra 2 years ago
Incidently; on the point of me not believing i have eternal life.
I don't know if i have eternal life. But Jesus knew he had eternal life; he was God, right?
Well if i knew i had eternal life - i'd willingly give it away for my species.
Jesus claims to have died; be we all know what death is. Whatever immortal soul there may be, "real death" means oblivion.
Which is why his sacrifice is, in context - meaningless.
ackmonra 2 years ago
"Jesus as personal saviour"
Unfortunatly, its quite common for a human to develop a mental coping mechanism during hardship.
Imaginery friends, amnesia and all manner of illusions. Unfortunatly if they persist after they've done the job of stabilising you - they remain a lasting negative effect. Rage, violent thoughts, fear, sadness.
All need to be handled by the rational mind for a person to be healthy, in my opinion.
You control your feelings; you're not forgiven for having them.
ackmonra 2 years ago
Ack,
A) How is it that the heroic example of Jesus in the gospels qualifies as an "imaginary friend"? I never said I heard him talking to me.
B) If he exists, then Jesus is in charge of forgiving others.
robvandjdk 2 years ago
A) Your just in the illusions catagory; since you don't actually talk to jesus.
B) What would be the point? Feeling negative feelings as all part of being alive, your not bad for feeling them - only bad for acting upon them.
Religion tells you that you're bad for feeling things that is a natural part of being alive.
To put it simply; that is wrong.
ackmonra 2 years ago
"Jesus as God"
I've got all the evidence in the cosmos to suggest that God isn't reponcible for you being here.
For example "God as your Creator"
You do realise that your mother and father turned food and drink into a brand new human being all by themselves, right?
This goes to my point about maternal birth pains vastly overwhelming the sacrifice of jesus. You owe your ancestors more than you can imagine - but don't honour them with being responcible for you; you give that to God.
ackmonra 2 years ago
"Jesus as character"
Actually; i don't have that much of a problem with that one. However; you've not convinced me he's not fictional.
ackmonra 2 years ago
In one of the parts that I edited out I said you could love and admire the character even if you thought he was fictional or mostly fictional. This is not unlike having a favorite hero from the movies.
robvandjdk 2 years ago
Indeed.
I'm a fan of Sherlock Holmes myself.
ackmonra 2 years ago