Good job man, nice points. But to say that you are atheist is ignorant in itself. Try to first figure out who or what is God. let me give you a clue. Every Christian is God.
@tubeboy1 .. so .. you're only God if you're a Christian eh?
But I thought there was only 1 (thee) God? .. err .. 3 (father, son, holy spirit) Gods? .. err .. oh wtf, a few hundred million (all the Christians in the world) Gods? Or do the Christian Gods all belong to only one Christian denomination?
@themarsh60 His monologue covers at least 10 different subjects: atheism, origin of moral law, definition of sin, Old Testament Law, New Testament Grace, absolute Truth, subjective morality, loss of morality in modern society, sex outside marriage, punishment for sin, does God change... I'm sure there are more. Which one in particular would you like for me to comment on?
@TheoreticalBullshit : The Old Testament speaks to the holiness of God. The New Testament speaks to the mercy of God. He is both holy and merciful. Christ says that the greatest commandment is to love God and the second is to love one another. (Matthew 22:36-40). The life a Christian is to find the perfect balance of Truth and Grace just as Christ did (ex. John 8:3-7). Fortunately, our laws take care of most of the punishment for sin in our society, although even that is eroding.
@modestoca25 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
completely random question, haven't even seen the rest of your video, but by any chance did your "theoretical bullshit" piss some guy off which is the reason for you o so stylish shades.
See.... I don't think the law of stoning a tramp is horrible. Look at our society today. Divorce and unwed mothers produce criminals, drug addicts and homosexuals. Like it or not - that is the Truth. How many men would let their daughters run around and act like whores if they saw their neighbor's daughter stoned to death in front of him? Sure, it is tragic for her and her family, but society as a whole would be bettered by it. And it hasn't changed: the wages of sin is [still] death (Rom 6:23).
@Thistlesifter220 If you are being sincere, your religion has completely twisted your moral framework. You are recommending murdering people because they are having sex. Moreover, you seem to not be making the same assertion for sexually active young men as you are for young women. If you are interested in preventing unwanted pregnancy, promote safe sex and condom use.
@BrooklynRagtag Not true. I'm not recommending anything, I'm simply stating that the law of God, intended to stop and prevent societal problems, is good. And it wouldn't be only a punishment for the young woman, but also her Father. Moreover, the law applies to men as well, it just isn't listed in the same verse T.B. is referencing. Safe sex and condom use do not work, as is proven by some of the many crises our nations are now facing. Abstinence works, it's just that no one >>wants<< to do it.
@Thistlesifter220 You are recommending something. Please take responsibility for your moral suppositions. If stoning is part of some law, then I would proudly consider myself a law-breaker.
The statistics are quite clear that abstinence doesn't work. The rates of unwanted pregnancies are much higher in extremely religious communities, where condom use is discouraged. If you are concerned about societal well-being, this should interest you. Sexual urges are natural. Death by stoning is not.
@BrooklynRagtag I'm sorry but you're wrong.... I responded to a video, I didn't recommend anything. Did you not watch the video?
Free sex, safe or otherwise, has produced around 50 million abortions, not to mention all the kids who weren't murdered thereby. I didn't say discourage condom use... I said teach abstinence. It works.
@Thistlesifter220 Actually, I did watch the video. The point was that there are two mutually exclusive moral commandments within the same Bible. Your post was off topic, but I felt it was more significant that it was a wicked thing to say.
Abortion is a difficult issue, but it is a fact that abstinence-only education leads to a greater number of unwanted pregnancy and a higher abortion rate. If you as concerned about social issues as you claim to be, these are facts you ought to examine.
Converse with a Mystic who experiences God directly! Folks marry morality to religion because inherently Morality is an inner organ like conscience, which can be robbed and justified by Egoic logic. But this moral organ is tapped into by going within and clearing the cobwebs.
When you attain enlightenment, certain selfless morals become intrinsic to said person in Union w/ the Absolute.
God's standard is Enlightenment/Union/Nonduality/Selflessness which Pawns all your logic against this.
@snbeings Many people claim to experience God directly. Unfortunately they make conflicting, mutually exclusive claims about what God is saying. To my knowledge, none of these "mystics" offer any evidence of their divine connection beyond their personal assertion.
Personal revelation is unverifiable. Anyone can claim to be a mystic or to have a direct connection to a god. If God wants to unambiguously share a universal moral message, why choose such an ineffectual and unconvincing method?
@BrooklynRagtag The Apex of the pyramid of the Enlightenment experience has its purveyors all saying the same thing; Love, Infinity, Beyond all words, Objectivity, etc.
"Your version of "evidence" is subjective. Its plain and simple. There are folks through out history who lay out blueprints on how to directly experience God. If your skepticism prevents you from following said path, thats on you. Others follow the blueprints and arrive at an undeniable Infinite destination
@snbeings You haven't responded to my objection. We are talking about the most powerful and intelligent being in the universe. Are you saying God can't think of a better way to disseminate information than to give fuzzy feelings to a select few in a private, unverifiable fashion and then have those select few interpret their feelings for the unwashed masses?
By the way, the "evidence" of personal revelation is subjective by definition. I'm not sure you know what these terms mean.
God is Objectivity that is infinite and includes all things all perspectives at Once. The subjective mind can't grasp this living Unlimited Objectivity because the mind is limited. Let's pick 100 random people and ask how many of them really look for God. You might be lucky to find one. I know what subjective means. I'm saying that your version of "evidence" has its rules and limits applied to the Unlimited. Its not "fuzzy feelings", but a deep Knowingness of the alive Infinite
@snbeings You still haven't responded to my objection. You haven't even tried.
My standard of evidence isn't subjective. I want evidence that could be verified by anyone. You are using words in ways that aren't in line with their definitions. That's fine, but it hinders you from clearly communicating your ideas.
BTW. I would bet that a majority of people have sought God with great sincerity. Many believe they have found a god and they make conflicting claims about what he or she has to say.
@BrooklynRagtag Conflicting claims is part of human nature. Everyone says they like different music, that a certain make of car is the best, that a certain food is the best, that one place is more beautiful than another. That's how 'mind' operates ....in duality. However God is Nondual, is the Now, is everytwhere and within, and can be experienced. If there is a conflicting claim, its merely a product of the limited mind. However God still reamains and is untouched by the mind's claims.
@snbeings You are right. "Conflicting claims [are] part of human nature." That's my point.
I don't doubt that people are finding peaceful places within their own minds through meditation. I don't doubt that people are having numinous experiences that deepen their feelings of empathy and love for their fellow man.
You have made numerous specific claims about the nature of the god in which you believe. My question is how you or anyone can claim to know anything about an unobservable god.
Has nothing to do with "peaceful place, mind, feelings." This is entirely beyond and prior to any of the latter. The direct experience of God is prior to any belief about it. Its a knowing. For me there is no choice in the matter, belief is of the limited mind, but this direct experiencing is prior to the mind. It's impossible for me to deny God since I experience That. You want to observe God with limited senses? Your using the wrong organs. Tap into the Heart within U for That
@snbeings I can see we aren't going to agree and that's fine. At one time, I genuinely sought conversations with God and had deep experiences that I then attributed to divinity.
"Spiritual" experiences are common, but people don't agree on which god gave the experience. If a god exists, it doesn't seem interested in shedding any light there. I'm not doubting the experience, I'm doubting the interpretation. Humans don't have a good track record at intuiting correct answers about the universe.
Tha's the beauty of free will. God does shed light, but it takes two to tango. If you don't want "light", then thats on you. Everything we know is based on Intuition. Even Einstein talked about intuition which as an organ separate from logic, reason, mind, seeing, hearing. That's the thing, to experience God permanently as an Infinite Ocean requires going within and waking up additional organs. The real is Awareness, which is aware of the mind and its thoughts and the body.
@snbeings This conversation is oscillating between comedy and tragedy for me. Intuition is definitely not an organ. Also, though intuition may be the start of a path toward finding something that's actually true, it isn't the ending point. It takes work to verify intuitions. Einstein didn't just intuit general relativity and his theories are useful because they are tested. Religious beliefs begin with intuition and never take the next step. They are the most undeveloped kinds of beliefs.
@BrooklynRagtag Intuition is a faculty, like logic, reason, intellect, etc. There are deeper unused Faculties within man, that are necessary to know God. If your premise of proof relies on the scientific method, which was built upon verifiable tests on material substance, then how will you prove God who is immaterial yet knowable? I dont care about beliefs! I care about the undeniable direct experience of God which is prior to thought and belief. Let's move past belief and into direct knowing!
@snbeings I would like to make sure I understand what you're asserting. This is a God that chooses to stay hidden from all sensory methods of verification, but reveals itself through a necessarily first person channel of elusive faculties of intuition that most people aren't even aware they possess. The people who make conflicting claims about God haven't actually experienced God, but the people whose description agrees with yours have experienced God. Is this correct?
@BrooklynRagtag Human eyes = limited range of the visual spectrum, same with ears, smell, intellect, etc. Our senses are limited. Very few choose to go within, investigate the source of thought, the source of Awareness. This is where you find the direct experience of God, by going within. There are no conflicts with those who experience God permanently. If there are, its by those who got a fleeting glimpse. I can say a tree has no leaves, u can say it does. No conflict, just different seasons
@snbeings There are mutually exclusive claims from people who claim to have talked to God directly. This is a fact. I'm not talking about two sides of the same coin. I'm talking about mutually exclusive claims. I'm asking you if you think they actually never spoke with God directly.
@BrooklynRagtag Yes, in some instances, they never spoke to God. They could have heard a voice, or the sub-conscious mind, or many other phenomenon. I am saying that at the Esoteric Core, of most paths, you will find the description, and blueprints, of the direct experience of God. Its like a drop of water falling into the ocean. Beyond description, yet can be experienced. We cannot deny the subjective experience, especially when it is repeatable, similar to a scientific method.
@snbeings Thank you for answering my question directly. Here is the important followup question. Do I have a good reason to believe any of your claims above contradictory claims made by another person who also says they have spoken with God?
@BrooklynRagtag I can say that hard lined skepticism can create a prison of bias no longer allowing you to evolve spiritually. I with held all judgments on these matters and figured that I have to see for my self. I sought the experience and found it to be true. That's all I'm saying. That this God as an Objective Infinite reality can be experienced and it pops ur bias Bubble. Wrestling with contradictions can ultimately prevent you from the direct experience, which by far trumps everything.
@snbeings Should I take that as a no? I wasn't always an atheist. I grew up meditating, praying, reading, and seeking experiences of the divine. I had experiences that I attributed to the divine at the time. I am still deeply invested in numinous experiences and in developing deeper moral thinking and behavior in myself. The important thing that I have developed more recently is a genuine concern for whether my beliefs reflect reality. I don't think that's a step backward.
@BrooklynRagtag I would have know the contradictions before I answered. I have found that beliefs are superimposed over reality. Reality itself is without beliefs or filters of any kinds. The direct experience of God removes or sometimes destroys permanently those filters. The genuine concern is good. However seeing that the mind is not you, since you are aware of the mind and its processes, is something vital on the way there. In a sense all beliefs are relinquished and God becomes revealed
God, of course, hasn't changed "his" mind! Men who realize that people and situations are changing have changed how they protray the wants and reactions of their god. It has to be that way to get even some of the people to still believe in the christian god. So, man has changed his mind about what he needs and wants in a god ... of course!
Saddest part is that you'll spend hours upon hours ranting about circular arguments that you'll one day find out is (according to your thought process) right or wrong. In the mean time, we "supposedly ignorant" Christians, will be doing good in the world. Loving people, edifying God and doing our best to live as Christ did. Please understand, I do think you are a very articulate, intelligent and skilled orator... however, I would ask what you are doing to make the world a better place?
@mrbaws What do Christians do to make the world a better place, Mhh Put a stop to scientific study's that would help millions under the grounds of them playing god. Burn down an abortion clinic, persecute gays. Christians in no way make the world more of better place, then atheists do the only think we do differently is we dont Put a stop to scientific study's, we don't Burn down an abortion clinic, we don't persecute gays. Charity both Christians and atheists do it, we both want people to be
@bio0link Much like Theoretical BS above, you have a very slanted and "right wing" view of "all" Christians. It would be about as fair as comparing you to every athiest/agnostic that was horribly evil in the past. It's unfair. My point was that, on the whole, a majority of Christians like myself work for the betterment of society. What have you done lately to help society? I've never burned a clinic and I don't persecute gays any more than you. So again, what have you done lately...?
@mrbaws I view Christians the same as i view atheists its the ones who do what i stated below that i have an issue with Christians do equal good work as atheists. The only atheist that comes to mind who did evil work is Stalin, i can think of many more Christians then atheists who have done terrible things. And a majority of athiests like myself work for the betterment of society. What have i done lately mhh not much as college takes up 90% of my time the rest I spend doing things I enjoy.
@bio0link It seems to me you have a very slanted view on all atheists. Many Christians help out society but so do atheists. Example, Bill Gates is an atheist owns the largest charity. Every atheist I know including me wouldn't hesitate to donate or help out others if it was in our power. You act like Christians help more then atheists. I think they help just as much but we do less harm also.
I don't see it as a logical problem or inconsistency for god to issue new moral marching orders. it doesn't necessarily mean he changed his mind. it may merely mean that humanity has changed. think of it as similar to you being suddenly allowed to go to R rated movies at 17 or drink at 21. Were your parents wrong before? Did they change their minds? Not really. You changed and were given a new set of commandments.
@chicraig6421 God let's us choose, even when he knows what we will choose, because those that do choose to love and obey him are his and he has a loving relationship with them. Those that don't ... actually hate him, denying who he is and what he has done and done for them and that is their choice but as an enemy of the one true God, YHWH, they will be punished in a manner fitting the power of the creator of the universe and more. Thank God for Jesus and redemption!!! Peace to you, friend!
@rtslayer this is silly.l if god knows what we are going to choose, then that isnt really free will. those that don't believe in god dont believe in god. no hate, just disbelief. really, everything you said is just silly. you might as well be a troll.
@creepyoldman2 Sorry if this seems silly to you. It was an attempt to answer a question that was asked of me (not by you obviously). You clearly have an agenda and don't want to make sense of it, or you would ask for clarification instead of sending attempted insults. Please don't misunderstand, I hold you no ill will. I won't try to force the love for God on you either. Perhaps you have just enough knowledge of God to be dangerous (to yourself). 4 your sake, earnestly seek God... I'll pray 4 U
@rtslayer I'm sorry but I must ask what you mean when you say that non-believers hate God. I do not hate God. I do not believe that He exists, but I don't hate the concept of God. I'm intrigued by it. Why do you think that people who see no proof for God hate Him? And if you have evidence for God, I would be curious to hear it. I have always liked testing my believes... well, non-believes in this case.
@LookieHippie again forgive me if I am not entirely articulate but I will attempt to explain at least some of what you ask... evidence is there, I can tell you I have experience so I know God, but you want worldly evidence. First is creation, as the bible explains, gives us reason to know there is a God, probably the source of your intrigue. We all have a conscience which further testifies from within each of us. These are experiences we all have and your own experience should speak to continued
@LookieHippie continued... Then there is the Bible as a source of evidence. Like a history book it provides evidence. It can be corroborated by other historical evidences. if you really want to search those out I can refer you to such. Once you see that these people did exist as the bible says. You can look at their lives the changes that took place, the things they did. i.e. The apostles lived with Jesus, saw him crucified and alive again and ascend to heaven. They had the Holy Spirit continued
@LookieHippie come upon them. They performed miracles, had seen miracles done, They knew first hand, eyewitnesses (that should be worldly evidence) and testified that Jesus is the Christ and that these things happened. Their testimony was not to their earthly benefit. They were persecuted, beaten, stoned and gruesomely killed. They knew it would happen, saw it happen to others all around them and still testified that it is so. If it weren't true they would have known (eye witnesses) continued
@LookieHippie and if it weren't so they would have denied Christ. Even knowing it is so it is difficult to stand up to persecution, Peter failed, though that was before he witnessed the resurrected Christ and later the Holy Spirit, After that not even death could separate him from loving God and testifying that Jesus is the Christ. There are many other evidences, I know I don't do them justice in my own words! I apologize for what many proclaim and exhibit as following Christ! (continued)
@LookieHippie Please, don't attempt to worship others that say they are Christians instead seek God and you will find him. Study the scripture and do not be led astray by men and their craftiness! There is a God...YHWY...the God of the Bible. He loves you and wants amazing things for you! He definitely doesn't want to through you into hell but because he is righteous, he must punish wickedness. So Jesus came and took that punishment, to pay for our wickedness. We just have to repent and believe!
@LookieHippie sorry that got so long... there really is so much more evidence! Seek God... I know I can't make you believe in God... but if you seek God (earnestly) you will find him and He can give you faith (it is the gift of God you know)
@rtslayer How does someone who doesn't believe in a god earnestly seek that god? It seems to me that you're saying that we have to believe that god exists before we see any evidence for him. which to me is a completely ass backwards method for finding the truth about anything. How do we get over that?
@Griexxt Sorry man,if you are blind and wish to remain so then you will. But God made it plain to see that there is a God by creation itself. Inside each of us is evidence, we have a spirit/soul/life force however you try to explain it, we have a conscience and moral awareness. All of these cause men to realize that there is a God, Creator, Supernatural being, we are not a mistake, and somewhere inside, each of us knows that unless we purposefully deny the truth. That's Y seek! find the Creator!
@rtslayer I want to believe what is demonstrably true. If you want to call that "wishing to remain blind", then so be it. I don't think so.
You're not the first one to say that creation itself is evidence of God. What I'd like to know is; according to you, what would the world have to look like for it not to be evidence of God's existence?
And there you go again, we have to accept that it's true before we can see that it is. That is a very bad practice in my opinion.
@Griexxt how about this... look inside yourself, as I said last time, not just that everything had to be created (which should be reason enough to seek the truth), reread that part if you would. According to me...? it would be shear fiction to think any of creation could exist without a creator, God. And because I know him, he's evident in my life, I have a relationship with him, that's experiential knowledge. Perhaps if everything were dead, nothing with life, spirit or soul. No not even then!!
@rtslayer Your experience has no value as evidence to me. I have not experienced it.
If no universe could have existed without God according to you, then the fact that the universe is as it is, is not evidence specifically of your God.
We see things very differently. You accept God's existence a priori. I'm not willing to accept anything a priori.
@chicraig6421 Please I am just a man but I will try to explain... I have a son. If I tell him to do something, even though I know he wants to do something else and prolly will do his own thing(perhaps I am almost certain/know), when the time comes he will be punished if he disobeyed... even though I "knew" he would. God is huge and we cannot fully comprehend him. I believe that he actually knows, can see through time unlike us. But wants us to choose him... to love him. He let's us choose even
Two important things to consider when making comments. One is that when one's spelling or grammar is awkward, it might not be the author's fault. The reprint occasionally makes the error for whatever reason. It has happened to me, and I am very careful regarding these matters. The other is to respect one another's views. Some of the nasty responses I've read are totally uncalled for. There are two sides to EVERY view. Listen and hopefully learn.
@NEXTCMedia Oh no? "You should not let a sorceress live. Exodus 22:17"
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9"
"and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. 2 Chronicles"
@humanistheart bottom one i'd have to search up on, but sorceress worship satan people who claim to see dead people and such and claim to speak to dead and such are only speaking to demons, by contacting demons you could place in demons to make people die or sick, there for you put them to death because they risk others, and as for honoring mother and farther your parents are also seen as GOD the farther to abide by them is to abide by the commandments other wise if they say kill they are wrong
@NEXTCMedia All that was crap based on your belief, which apparently included the idea that your parents are gods and you must be slave to them. You clearly don't have the ability to think logically.
Plus your saying that, oh no god doesn't approve of murder, except when he does, Lol
@humanistheart not true, actually I dont bash people with my veiws force people to do so, I said my farther is god, and every one was made in the image of god to be god because god like us wants to have a family an reproduces! in my oppinion
@NEXTCMedia No, this god was made in the image of man. As the saying goes, if dogs had a god, he'd have 4 legs and a tail. But at any rate, if you're not already in it, I'd suggest you look into the mormon church.
@humanistheart Why would i look into mormons they nutters! and any way you have your choice to beleive that but satan makes you think what you think GOD is all perfect
@NEXTCMedia "and every one was made in the image of god to be god " These were your words, and that is what mormons believe. If they're nutters than you're a nutter too.
Who are we to talk back to god! satans genocidal not god! if a man makes a cup from clay or what ever can it turn around and say okay now im not gonna give you tea or serve tea am fucking off BYE! no same goes man cant say to god im gonna kill you do what ever I want and still live forever you do what you wanna do you die SIMPLE!
@NEXTCMedia That's a lot of rambling there. Well, I'll respond anyway. "Who are we to talk back to god! satans genocidal not god! i" First of all, satan only appears once in the hebrew scriptures, and not until Job, where he is refereed to as a child of god and he can do NOTHING WITHOUT GODS PERMISSION. Second of all, the bibles are quite clear who's committing the genocide, the hebrew god. Unless you're claiming that satan was the one that caused the flood, or that killed all the children in
@NEXTCMedia egypt, or that satan was the one commanding the hebrew people to wipe out entire civilizations save for their virgin women who could be kept as sex slaves. Are you maintaining the entire jewish and christian religion is actually inspired by satan, not this yaweah fellow?
@humanistheart Actually Im jewish christian and god only tells his chosen to fight for freedom if you actaully read up on the egypt and hebrews GOD gave phearow sorry spelling, but gave him choices let his people go or stay! and man cant say what is murder or not and what is sin or not only god! there for if there is sick and sin and pain in a nation to whipe a nation or person out of life is only of GOD no man can do that but with morality Men MURDER children look at american army!
@NEXTCMedia "Actually Im jewish christian " No, those are mutually exclusive terms.
"and man cant say what is murder or not and what is sin or not only god! "
All you're saying is, you think if this god existed he could do whatever the hell he wants, like raping and mass genocide and you have to call it good for some reason. That's scary. Really, really scary.
morality in the bible hasn't changed... the penalty for immorality is still death... the penalty is just not enforced until the judgement before God himself (instead of "on her wedding night" in your example)... at which time if you are found to be guilty of Adultery/fornication(sex outside marriage) or any other immorality you would be sentenced to Death eternal
@rtslayer Please explain to me then the fact that God knows all, before we are born, during life, after death. So if that is true - God knows all - why is there a judgement (day) as God already knows? I get so confused with all the double speak.
I used to be an athiest like you. At that point in my life I was about your age, searching, as you are, and had no positive role model in the christian faith. Then I met my wife. A beautiful wonderful very moral christian. I had direction in my life, studied the bible and now know in my heart of hearts that there IS a God. I enjoy watching your videos because you remind me of myself 20 years ago. Analizing, intellectualizing and wondering. I love listening to your athiest arguements Scott :)
@RedPortiaOne Don't take this the wrong way, I by no means mean to be inflammatory, but your story brings me great sadness. I mourn your loss. Your story is a perfect illustration as to why religion exists.
@playerwithfaith I will certainly not take it the wrong way. And equally I hope you do not take it the wrong way when I mourn people like you who's hearts and souls are so empty that they are incapable of the miracle and love of faith. I truly mourn athiests. In everyone's life there comes a time when you ask the age old question 'is this all that I am'? You are a 20 year old and dont have the life or spiritual experience to consider creation on a serious level. Most athiests are young like you
@RedPortiaOne Of course not. I know that's not you speaking, but your religion. You have become part of the system that assimilates and controls your fellow man. Your simulacrum speaks for you now, you stopped analyzing, intellectualizing, and wondering about the world around you. You took the easy way out, the quick answer. Not that I blame you for that. Billions of others do the same. For some people, its easier to go through life that way.
@RedPortiaOne "and had no positive role model in the christian faith" I used to be a christian, but there was no positive or moral things in that religion.
@humanistheart Its called faith mr empty souled troll. You are blocked as I can waste no more of my valuable time on you...deal with it. Peace and love be with from the kingdom of God :)
@RedPortiaOne Neither peace nor love can come from a genocidal fictional monster. Seriously, how does one lovingly rape a women? Or lovingly commit mass genocide or infanticide? How does one lovingly kill homosexuals or those that don't believe in your imaginary tyrant? What's loving about rape there buddy? Your sick!
God having different purposes for different people doesn't mean He changed His mind. He has (had) separate goals with the OT and NT morality. It doesn't mean God's morality changed. It means that there were different rules for people made so God could do His thing, basically
@humanistheart You're right, but that doesn't have to be a problem. If morality changed it doesn't mean God changed. It means God had different purposes with different people in different times. Morality changed because a certain purpose was fulfilled and He could move on in His plans of redemption.
@vincentjdrummer I suppose you could make that argumeant, but what does that say about this fictional deity? That at one time, part of his 'plan' included ordering mass genocide, infanticide, allowing slavery and the raping of women. It says that morality based on this god is meaningless, because he just says whatever the hell he feels like. Morality for christians just means 'because I said so' which isn't morality at all. In short, it means christianity has no morals.
@humanistheart This isn't a simple issue. I struggle with this personally and don't really know the best way to explain it. First of all; God ordering those things isn't the rule. We've got the law and God only a few times in history deemed it necessary for it to be overruled by His order. The overrule of the law isn't prescriptive, just descriptive, so it doesn't give us any reason whatsoever to justify such actions nowadays.
@vincentjdrummer Think about it, at one point rape was moral and now its immoral? That's not the sign of an intelligent being, but a sadistic idiotic one.
And, once again, it means that there is no bases for morality in christianity other than 'because I said so' which is not morality but tyranny.
@humanistheart This means that rape and murder, etc. are not moral and never were. You can't say "well, if God once ordered it, it must be the new moral rule", because if the author of law chooses to override the law in a few instances, that doesn't change the law. It depends on your definition of morality (doing what God says, or following law) if morality was changed in those instances, but if it was, it was only in that single order.
@vincentjdrummer "This means that rape and murder, etc. are not moral and never were." Your conclusion doesn't follow from you premise. Rape and murder were not one time things found in the hebrew scriptures, they were continuing issues throughout the vast majority of them. And at no point were these orders rescinded.
@humanistheart I guess you could say there was no morality before the law was given to Moses, besides "do what God tells you". It was immoral for Adam and Eve to eat the apple, because it was disobedient to God. But disobedience to God usually incorporates some kind of moral sin like pride or hatred, etc. Obedience to God is actually a good moral guide. Obedience is out of love for God. Is killing God's sons out of love for God? Is rape out of love for God? Immorality is out of love for self
@vincentjdrummer ""You can't say "well, if God once ordered it, it must be the new moral rule", " No one said this. For one thing the word once, as already pointed out, is an inaccurate one here, and 'new', I can't even imagine how you came up with that one.
@humanistheart You seem to be implying that christian morality is worthless, because God Himself ordered things against His law. That's why I said that Him ordering things against His own law doesn't make that order a new law, unless it would've been a general order like "everyone, do this!". You cannot extrapolate from "Joshua did this, as God ordered him" a change in morality. The law remains exactly the same, so christian morality stands ever so firm.
@humanistheart I think your underlying question is "how can you honor a God who ordered such things?". This is purely dependent on your view of God. If you think He's God, and therefore all knowing, all powerful, benevolent,etc. you will trust that God knew what He did and you will trust that the world was probably off a lot worse without those actions. These "complaints" mostly come from atheists, because they have an extremely low and inaccurate view of God, which doesn't allow Him to be God
@vincentjdrummer ""how can you honor a God who ordered such things?". No, that was not my 'question' at all, especially since I asked no question. You're premise is that one has to believe this god is all knowing and benevolent, to be okay with his actions. Well obviously. Although despite your admittance that this god could do anything, like anal rape dead children, and you'd still call him benevolent, I'd still like to suggest you look the word up.
@humanistheart You're looking at this in a man centered way. According to your reasoning a benevolent God would have to be a slave of our desires and wishes to be benevolent. Did it ever cross your mind that having us go through severe suffering could be the most loving thing for God to do if it draws us to Him? For all we know genocide was God's way to get all those people into heaven and they're greatly rejoicing. Get your eyes off of yourself and on God's purposes as God
@vincentjdrummer "You're looking at this in a man centered way. According to your reasoning a benevolent God would have to be a slave of our desires and wishes to be benevolent"
I never said or implied that. But benevolent precludes the idea of eternal tormeant for doing something another being doesn't care for, and it certainly precludes the torture of children, the slaughtering of infants, the enslavement of other beings, the raping of women, and so on and so on. Did you not look the word up?
@vincentjdrummer "benevolent,etc. you will trust that God knew what He did and you will trust that the world was probably off a lot worse without those actions." So you trust that women getting raped makes the world better some how. Wow.
@vincentjdrummer At any rate the point you missed to widely was that christianity has no ethics what so ever. Your bases of 'right and wrong' is only 'because I said so' which has no moral value what so ever.
@humanistheart No ethics whatsoever? I'm not even going to reply to that.
Right or wrong isn't based on "I said so", it is based on "God said so". God gave us the law and wrote it on our hearts (aka: morality). Therefore the law is a case of "God said so". To me God saying what's right and wrong has infinitely more value than whatever value it could have being some evolved instinct so we can live our lives in submission to survival of some species that will be forgotten the moment it dies
@vincentjdrummer Yes, 'god said so' is the same thing as 'because I said so' if your speaking form the position of said fictional god, which I was. How did you not put that together?
"To me God saying what's right and wrong has infinitely more value" A being that orders mass genocide, infanticide, slavery, the abuse of men women and children, and rape has no morality. And again, because I said so is not morality, it's tyranny.
Good video. I don't agree with your final conclusion. Morality (as in: the rules for mankind) has certainly changed, but that doesn't mean that God has changed His mind. God had different purposes with people in the OT and NT. Lets say the OT laws were made to separate a distinct people who will get to see the importance of godly living; therefore hard punishment. When that purpose was established God came for redemption. Without the OT morality nobody would see the weight of sin and redemption
i agree... the world is dynamic in every ways, there are constants in physics, but whenever humans are involved there are variables, there are changes, morality is human, and it changes.
morality is defined as a doctrine or system of morals, and morals are very basically the distinction between right and wrong. sin is defined as anything you think, say, or do that breaks god's laws (very basic). you cannot use the context of the new covenant in todays world because it is the old covenant by taking the story from the OT you are performing eisegesis (basically taking verses out of context)
If morality hasn't changed, how do you explain giving woman equal rights, ridding of slavery and recognizing blacks as people with rights? The bible fails in all of the aforementioned topics. It's a seperate debate to say the bible outlines objective morality, but you would then be wrong twice. So which direction are you suggesting I hand you your rightous ass?
I just finished having this discussion with another person here on youtube. It's crazy how (as you noted ) no matter what we always get to this point when talking to christians...(sighs). I gets awfully tiresome after a while.
The Law of Moses which you are referring to was for a nation of bedraggled sojourners without home and without a system of jurisprudence. We are talking about the Bronze age, Moses is taking his people through the wilderness they are a nation on the move traveling through hostile terrain. Strict laws was prescribed because it was necessary for their survival. You should read some of early American laws, Read T.Jeffersons laws on punishments for examp. Homo's are castrated and lesbos deformed!
Why make a vid on morality and plant your entire diatribe on a strawman fallacy? Theoretical Bullshit is the perfect title for the nonsense being spewed in this vid!
Take off the postmodern glasses before trying to understand the Bible. Cause you are completely out of context!
When you said morals don't change but punishments do , your answer was , Un ungh! Lol! What a rebuttal! lol!
Then you say no words for ethical or non-ethical! Thats bullshit! try , righteous or wicked!
@nef2442 Why is it that Christians never actually explain why they believe someone has made a wrong arguement? What is the strawman fallacy you are referring to?
Secondly I have a HUGE problem with the idea of taking the Bible out of context! If it is the inerrant word of God, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to take it out of context. It says what it says!
Either you believe it or you don't! If you don't like what the Bible says, then DON"T believe it. Either way, quit your damn whining!
I said there are words for ethical and non-ethical I even offered the words.
Here's an examp of taking something out of context smarty pants.
Founding Father Thomas Jefferson said that all homosexuals should be castrated in America and lesbians should have their faces deformed. What I'm not American if I don't believe we should castrate homo's?
What I'm not a Christian if I don't use a form of bronze age punishment against law breakers? Some of the Bible is purely DESCRIPTIVE history.
You can still BE an American and disagree with Thomas Jefferson!
Can you still BE a Christian and disagree with the Bible?
Also, these are not merely historical records. There are many commandments besides the 10 commandments, which modern people would find barbaric. Have you actually read the Bible?
My analogy was made for the purpose to highlight a simple verity, that parts of the OT are DESCRIPTIVE history. You would not be taking the Bible of out context if you were to hear in the news that Jews and Christians were running around stoning people, and Killing Amorites, and Hittites, etc.
I haven't killed any Hittites lately and I haven't stoned anyone. And I don't have to disagree with the OT and I can still be a Christian. Call it "unity in diversity" but its not illogical!
How can God change his mind if God and his mind are all that is? Assuming you see that God, being all by His very nature, could not be anything less than all. What is all cannot change, because there is nothing else, it being all there is, to change into. The bible is not God. At best it can only reflect or point to an aspect of God's nature. But it's a book, written and edited by men, perhaps in parts, sometimes inspired by God, and perhaps, in parts, sometimes not.
God did not change his mind, but the translators of the bible mistranslated. Yes, i believe in God, and yes i know that saying the bible is not accurate leaves me open for the 'if you dont think the bible is accurate then what are you worshiping attack'.
why did God let the bible get mistranslated? well we have to ask God that, but i say its the same reason we exist. free will
what connects me to God is filling an emptiness in my heart. i know that doesnt make any sense to you but i cant explain it.
yes morality changes. what was considered moral then isnt moral now. and by translating the language into something we might understand wont work. we have to live that culture, at that time to truly get a grasp of what the bible is talking about.
u don't let free will intefere with your plans of revelation...God could make it so that the bible doesn't get mistranslated , without the loss of free will...he didn't...So he's a moron...ur god is a moron :)...and he doesn't exist, the moron
he doesnt? how do you know. this is your logic, 'he doesnt exist so the bible is a lie'. that is a huge fallacy. they are different, God and the bible. you cant disprove one and think you have disproved the other. sure the bible makes God something impossible, but thats only if you take the words to be literal. its poetic duh. we dont have a manual to read the bible so i take everything with a grain of salt. i dont know if God exists, but i have hope that he does. its called faith.
you can stay in your room and be angry or you can try to understand what i mean, and where i am coming from and where every religious person is coming from. use empathy, and mimic like the apes you love so much. :D
we dont get our morality from the bible..the bible is a book. we get our 'morality' from eating the apple from the tree of knowledge... we get the knowledge of whether we are doing something or not. so that gives us some way to differentiate from apes and whatnot. but the fact that it changes doesnt disprove anything.
We get our morality from knowledge? lol, science is against u buddy, cause apes do have knowledge and are sociable too. They also have morals and stuff...so, u don't know what the fuk u are talking about sorry :) have a nice day...
why are you hostile? are you having a bad christmas? you are being or thinking to broad, you have no idea what im saying because you are too anger to even consider it. according to christians we get our morals from the tree of knowledge. the tree lets us see what is wrong or right. it doesn't give us knowledge or make all society the same. honestly, go to some sort of theological school if you want to debate the validity of the bible. you sound really ignorant..
First of all, u didn't address my point, ur simply not capable of following a simple conversation-topic. Second of all, if he doesn't exist, of course the bible, which claims he does exist is a lie...duh So no, they are not so different. If u disprove his existence, then the bible is a lie... So simple. And faith is belief without evidence. So take ur unfounded beliefs and go for some fresh air, become a bit more realistic and come back to earth fOR ONCE!!!
yes i did address your point. read it again. tree of knowledge doesn't give knowledge. it just gives awareness. unless you are an ape, you dont know what they feel.
i understand where you are coming from, and its useless to try to get you to believe in what i believe, just as its useless to get me to believe in what you believe. im just answering this video's error.
Who says the bible is God's word..the bible. they are different. its like saying i have another object that says made by God. it doesn't mean that it is or isn't. Basing your argument on this is illogical right?
Basing your faith is different, its like you said, faith is belief in something you dont have any proof of.
my friend no u didn't address it at all. i said we don't get morality from knowledge, we get it like any other living thing gets it...Read the god delusion from richard dawkins and be enlightened...also ur mistaken to say that bible-god are seperate, if god goes down, so does the bible. calling someone hostile is an ad hominem attack, a logical fallacy and completely irrelevant to the topic..before u write about the videos errors, judge your own mistakes
the video said that christians believe that there morals are given from God. im sure he got that from pslams, a book of poems but i was saying that 'christians' believe they get their morals from the tree. not directly from the tree, but simple awareness from it. you cant feel what apes go through, its just guessing. i guess my way, youre guess your way. my way is illogical, your way lacks any meaning. much like our situation, if im right then i die happy. if your right, you just die.
lastly, to reply to your comment before, if god wanted to protect our free will to choose him, he wouldn't let the bible get mistranslated, that's just immoral and destroys our free will to choose based on what we know, making us choose based on chance. Some god...if people don't know god for certain, how can they choose between him and not him .... u are extremely unreasonable and full of excuses. as i promised i'm done talking to you, cause u aren't worth my
This comment has received too many negative votes show
did you get the shit beat out of you again? maybe it's time to shut up and quit thinking your views are so important.....
modestoca25 5 months ago
I didn't think you were the type of guy to get into fights, but maybe you got sucker-punched by an angry Christian. LOL
acidflowers 5 months ago
did god smite you in your face lolwut
jk lol ;)
Maper555 5 months ago
Good job man, nice points. But to say that you are atheist is ignorant in itself. Try to first figure out who or what is God. let me give you a clue. Every Christian is God.
tubeboy1 6 months ago
@tubeboy1 why is it always the christian fanatics that can't always see their own ignorance?
ColDwight 5 months ago
@tubeboy1 .. so .. you're only God if you're a Christian eh?
But I thought there was only 1 (thee) God? .. err .. 3 (father, son, holy spirit) Gods? .. err .. oh wtf, a few hundred million (all the Christians in the world) Gods? Or do the Christian Gods all belong to only one Christian denomination?
Now THAT's one hell of a God delusion!
MelioraCogito 4 months ago
@themarsh60 His monologue covers at least 10 different subjects: atheism, origin of moral law, definition of sin, Old Testament Law, New Testament Grace, absolute Truth, subjective morality, loss of morality in modern society, sex outside marriage, punishment for sin, does God change... I'm sure there are more. Which one in particular would you like for me to comment on?
1313sku 7 months ago
@TheoreticalBullshit : The Old Testament speaks to the holiness of God. The New Testament speaks to the mercy of God. He is both holy and merciful. Christ says that the greatest commandment is to love God and the second is to love one another. (Matthew 22:36-40). The life a Christian is to find the perfect balance of Truth and Grace just as Christ did (ex. John 8:3-7). Fortunately, our laws take care of most of the punishment for sin in our society, although even that is eroding.
1313sku 7 months ago
@1313sku Old Testament = Jewish; New Testament = Jesus/Christianity. The Old Testament is just a background history leading to Christianity
modestoca25 5 months ago
@modestoca25 17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
Matthew 5:17-18
"Not a jot or tittle"
thatguywhodoesvidoes 4 months ago
completely random question, haven't even seen the rest of your video, but by any chance did your "theoretical bullshit" piss some guy off which is the reason for you o so stylish shades.
justdidthistocommen1 8 months ago
See.... I don't think the law of stoning a tramp is horrible. Look at our society today. Divorce and unwed mothers produce criminals, drug addicts and homosexuals. Like it or not - that is the Truth. How many men would let their daughters run around and act like whores if they saw their neighbor's daughter stoned to death in front of him? Sure, it is tragic for her and her family, but society as a whole would be bettered by it. And it hasn't changed: the wages of sin is [still] death (Rom 6:23).
Thistlesifter220 9 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 If you are being sincere, your religion has completely twisted your moral framework. You are recommending murdering people because they are having sex. Moreover, you seem to not be making the same assertion for sexually active young men as you are for young women. If you are interested in preventing unwanted pregnancy, promote safe sex and condom use.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Not true. I'm not recommending anything, I'm simply stating that the law of God, intended to stop and prevent societal problems, is good. And it wouldn't be only a punishment for the young woman, but also her Father. Moreover, the law applies to men as well, it just isn't listed in the same verse T.B. is referencing. Safe sex and condom use do not work, as is proven by some of the many crises our nations are now facing. Abstinence works, it's just that no one >>wants<< to do it.
Thistlesifter220 9 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 You are recommending something. Please take responsibility for your moral suppositions. If stoning is part of some law, then I would proudly consider myself a law-breaker.
The statistics are quite clear that abstinence doesn't work. The rates of unwanted pregnancies are much higher in extremely religious communities, where condom use is discouraged. If you are concerned about societal well-being, this should interest you. Sexual urges are natural. Death by stoning is not.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag I'm sorry but you're wrong.... I responded to a video, I didn't recommend anything. Did you not watch the video?
Free sex, safe or otherwise, has produced around 50 million abortions, not to mention all the kids who weren't murdered thereby. I didn't say discourage condom use... I said teach abstinence. It works.
Thistlesifter220 9 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 Actually, I did watch the video. The point was that there are two mutually exclusive moral commandments within the same Bible. Your post was off topic, but I felt it was more significant that it was a wicked thing to say.
Abortion is a difficult issue, but it is a fact that abstinence-only education leads to a greater number of unwanted pregnancy and a higher abortion rate. If you as concerned about social issues as you claim to be, these are facts you ought to examine.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
Converse with a Mystic who experiences God directly! Folks marry morality to religion because inherently Morality is an inner organ like conscience, which can be robbed and justified by Egoic logic. But this moral organ is tapped into by going within and clearing the cobwebs.
When you attain enlightenment, certain selfless morals become intrinsic to said person in Union w/ the Absolute.
God's standard is Enlightenment/Union/Nonduality/Selflessness which Pawns all your logic against this.
snbeings 10 months ago
@snbeings Many people claim to experience God directly. Unfortunately they make conflicting, mutually exclusive claims about what God is saying. To my knowledge, none of these "mystics" offer any evidence of their divine connection beyond their personal assertion.
Personal revelation is unverifiable. Anyone can claim to be a mystic or to have a direct connection to a god. If God wants to unambiguously share a universal moral message, why choose such an ineffectual and unconvincing method?
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag The Apex of the pyramid of the Enlightenment experience has its purveyors all saying the same thing; Love, Infinity, Beyond all words, Objectivity, etc.
"Your version of "evidence" is subjective. Its plain and simple. There are folks through out history who lay out blueprints on how to directly experience God. If your skepticism prevents you from following said path, thats on you. Others follow the blueprints and arrive at an undeniable Infinite destination
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings You haven't responded to my objection. We are talking about the most powerful and intelligent being in the universe. Are you saying God can't think of a better way to disseminate information than to give fuzzy feelings to a select few in a private, unverifiable fashion and then have those select few interpret their feelings for the unwashed masses?
By the way, the "evidence" of personal revelation is subjective by definition. I'm not sure you know what these terms mean.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag
God is Objectivity that is infinite and includes all things all perspectives at Once. The subjective mind can't grasp this living Unlimited Objectivity because the mind is limited. Let's pick 100 random people and ask how many of them really look for God. You might be lucky to find one. I know what subjective means. I'm saying that your version of "evidence" has its rules and limits applied to the Unlimited. Its not "fuzzy feelings", but a deep Knowingness of the alive Infinite
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings You still haven't responded to my objection. You haven't even tried.
My standard of evidence isn't subjective. I want evidence that could be verified by anyone. You are using words in ways that aren't in line with their definitions. That's fine, but it hinders you from clearly communicating your ideas.
BTW. I would bet that a majority of people have sought God with great sincerity. Many believe they have found a god and they make conflicting claims about what he or she has to say.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Conflicting claims is part of human nature. Everyone says they like different music, that a certain make of car is the best, that a certain food is the best, that one place is more beautiful than another. That's how 'mind' operates ....in duality. However God is Nondual, is the Now, is everytwhere and within, and can be experienced. If there is a conflicting claim, its merely a product of the limited mind. However God still reamains and is untouched by the mind's claims.
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings You are right. "Conflicting claims [are] part of human nature." That's my point.
I don't doubt that people are finding peaceful places within their own minds through meditation. I don't doubt that people are having numinous experiences that deepen their feelings of empathy and love for their fellow man.
You have made numerous specific claims about the nature of the god in which you believe. My question is how you or anyone can claim to know anything about an unobservable god.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag
Has nothing to do with "peaceful place, mind, feelings." This is entirely beyond and prior to any of the latter. The direct experience of God is prior to any belief about it. Its a knowing. For me there is no choice in the matter, belief is of the limited mind, but this direct experiencing is prior to the mind. It's impossible for me to deny God since I experience That. You want to observe God with limited senses? Your using the wrong organs. Tap into the Heart within U for That
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings I can see we aren't going to agree and that's fine. At one time, I genuinely sought conversations with God and had deep experiences that I then attributed to divinity.
"Spiritual" experiences are common, but people don't agree on which god gave the experience. If a god exists, it doesn't seem interested in shedding any light there. I'm not doubting the experience, I'm doubting the interpretation. Humans don't have a good track record at intuiting correct answers about the universe.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag
Tha's the beauty of free will. God does shed light, but it takes two to tango. If you don't want "light", then thats on you. Everything we know is based on Intuition. Even Einstein talked about intuition which as an organ separate from logic, reason, mind, seeing, hearing. That's the thing, to experience God permanently as an Infinite Ocean requires going within and waking up additional organs. The real is Awareness, which is aware of the mind and its thoughts and the body.
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings This conversation is oscillating between comedy and tragedy for me. Intuition is definitely not an organ. Also, though intuition may be the start of a path toward finding something that's actually true, it isn't the ending point. It takes work to verify intuitions. Einstein didn't just intuit general relativity and his theories are useful because they are tested. Religious beliefs begin with intuition and never take the next step. They are the most undeveloped kinds of beliefs.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Intuition is a faculty, like logic, reason, intellect, etc. There are deeper unused Faculties within man, that are necessary to know God. If your premise of proof relies on the scientific method, which was built upon verifiable tests on material substance, then how will you prove God who is immaterial yet knowable? I dont care about beliefs! I care about the undeniable direct experience of God which is prior to thought and belief. Let's move past belief and into direct knowing!
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings I would like to make sure I understand what you're asserting. This is a God that chooses to stay hidden from all sensory methods of verification, but reveals itself through a necessarily first person channel of elusive faculties of intuition that most people aren't even aware they possess. The people who make conflicting claims about God haven't actually experienced God, but the people whose description agrees with yours have experienced God. Is this correct?
I wish you very well.
BR
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Human eyes = limited range of the visual spectrum, same with ears, smell, intellect, etc. Our senses are limited. Very few choose to go within, investigate the source of thought, the source of Awareness. This is where you find the direct experience of God, by going within. There are no conflicts with those who experience God permanently. If there are, its by those who got a fleeting glimpse. I can say a tree has no leaves, u can say it does. No conflict, just different seasons
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings There are mutually exclusive claims from people who claim to have talked to God directly. This is a fact. I'm not talking about two sides of the same coin. I'm talking about mutually exclusive claims. I'm asking you if you think they actually never spoke with God directly.
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag Yes, in some instances, they never spoke to God. They could have heard a voice, or the sub-conscious mind, or many other phenomenon. I am saying that at the Esoteric Core, of most paths, you will find the description, and blueprints, of the direct experience of God. Its like a drop of water falling into the ocean. Beyond description, yet can be experienced. We cannot deny the subjective experience, especially when it is repeatable, similar to a scientific method.
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings Thank you for answering my question directly. Here is the important followup question. Do I have a good reason to believe any of your claims above contradictory claims made by another person who also says they have spoken with God?
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag I can say that hard lined skepticism can create a prison of bias no longer allowing you to evolve spiritually. I with held all judgments on these matters and figured that I have to see for my self. I sought the experience and found it to be true. That's all I'm saying. That this God as an Objective Infinite reality can be experienced and it pops ur bias Bubble. Wrestling with contradictions can ultimately prevent you from the direct experience, which by far trumps everything.
snbeings 9 months ago
@snbeings Should I take that as a no? I wasn't always an atheist. I grew up meditating, praying, reading, and seeking experiences of the divine. I had experiences that I attributed to the divine at the time. I am still deeply invested in numinous experiences and in developing deeper moral thinking and behavior in myself. The important thing that I have developed more recently is a genuine concern for whether my beliefs reflect reality. I don't think that's a step backward.
I wish you Well,
BR
BrooklynRagtag 9 months ago
@BrooklynRagtag I would have know the contradictions before I answered. I have found that beliefs are superimposed over reality. Reality itself is without beliefs or filters of any kinds. The direct experience of God removes or sometimes destroys permanently those filters. The genuine concern is good. However seeing that the mind is not you, since you are aware of the mind and its processes, is something vital on the way there. In a sense all beliefs are relinquished and God becomes revealed
snbeings 9 months ago 2
@snbeings spiritual experience recognizes spiritual experience
fusezhun 7 months ago
@snbeings supernatural beings?
fusezhun 7 months ago
Is that a Christian extremist black eye?
spareaxe 11 months ago
God, of course, hasn't changed "his" mind! Men who realize that people and situations are changing have changed how they protray the wants and reactions of their god. It has to be that way to get even some of the people to still believe in the christian god. So, man has changed his mind about what he needs and wants in a god ... of course!
justanote7 11 months ago
Saddest part is that you'll spend hours upon hours ranting about circular arguments that you'll one day find out is (according to your thought process) right or wrong. In the mean time, we "supposedly ignorant" Christians, will be doing good in the world. Loving people, edifying God and doing our best to live as Christ did. Please understand, I do think you are a very articulate, intelligent and skilled orator... however, I would ask what you are doing to make the world a better place?
mrbaws 11 months ago
@mrbaws What do Christians do to make the world a better place, Mhh Put a stop to scientific study's that would help millions under the grounds of them playing god. Burn down an abortion clinic, persecute gays. Christians in no way make the world more of better place, then atheists do the only think we do differently is we dont Put a stop to scientific study's, we don't Burn down an abortion clinic, we don't persecute gays. Charity both Christians and atheists do it, we both want people to be
bio0link 11 months ago
@bio0link ..happy, we both want peace (at least I think we do). May you have a wonderful day and a happy life. I now I am and I will without a god.
bio0link 11 months ago
@bio0link Much like Theoretical BS above, you have a very slanted and "right wing" view of "all" Christians. It would be about as fair as comparing you to every athiest/agnostic that was horribly evil in the past. It's unfair. My point was that, on the whole, a majority of Christians like myself work for the betterment of society. What have you done lately to help society? I've never burned a clinic and I don't persecute gays any more than you. So again, what have you done lately...?
mrbaws 11 months ago
@mrbaws I view Christians the same as i view atheists its the ones who do what i stated below that i have an issue with Christians do equal good work as atheists. The only atheist that comes to mind who did evil work is Stalin, i can think of many more Christians then atheists who have done terrible things. And a majority of athiests like myself work for the betterment of society. What have i done lately mhh not much as college takes up 90% of my time the rest I spend doing things I enjoy.
bio0link 11 months ago
@bio0link It seems to me you have a very slanted view on all atheists. Many Christians help out society but so do atheists. Example, Bill Gates is an atheist owns the largest charity. Every atheist I know including me wouldn't hesitate to donate or help out others if it was in our power. You act like Christians help more then atheists. I think they help just as much but we do less harm also.
bio0link 11 months ago
I don't see it as a logical problem or inconsistency for god to issue new moral marching orders. it doesn't necessarily mean he changed his mind. it may merely mean that humanity has changed. think of it as similar to you being suddenly allowed to go to R rated movies at 17 or drink at 21. Were your parents wrong before? Did they change their minds? Not really. You changed and were given a new set of commandments.
austriadorkus 1 year ago
Great videos!
FaganRoberts 1 year ago
You remind me of Johnny Knoxville with those sunglasses on. =p
ShokujiAkai 1 year ago
How the hell do you "accidentally" get kicked in the face???? Lol nice video.
JimmySerpent 1 year ago
@chicraig6421 God let's us choose, even when he knows what we will choose, because those that do choose to love and obey him are his and he has a loving relationship with them. Those that don't ... actually hate him, denying who he is and what he has done and done for them and that is their choice but as an enemy of the one true God, YHWH, they will be punished in a manner fitting the power of the creator of the universe and more. Thank God for Jesus and redemption!!! Peace to you, friend!
rtslayer 1 year ago
@rtslayer this is silly.l if god knows what we are going to choose, then that isnt really free will. those that don't believe in god dont believe in god. no hate, just disbelief. really, everything you said is just silly. you might as well be a troll.
creepyoldman2 1 year ago
@creepyoldman2 Sorry if this seems silly to you. It was an attempt to answer a question that was asked of me (not by you obviously). You clearly have an agenda and don't want to make sense of it, or you would ask for clarification instead of sending attempted insults. Please don't misunderstand, I hold you no ill will. I won't try to force the love for God on you either. Perhaps you have just enough knowledge of God to be dangerous (to yourself). 4 your sake, earnestly seek God... I'll pray 4 U
rtslayer 1 year ago
@rtslayer I'm sorry but I must ask what you mean when you say that non-believers hate God. I do not hate God. I do not believe that He exists, but I don't hate the concept of God. I'm intrigued by it. Why do you think that people who see no proof for God hate Him? And if you have evidence for God, I would be curious to hear it. I have always liked testing my believes... well, non-believes in this case.
Peace.
LookieHippie 1 year ago
@LookieHippie again forgive me if I am not entirely articulate but I will attempt to explain at least some of what you ask... evidence is there, I can tell you I have experience so I know God, but you want worldly evidence. First is creation, as the bible explains, gives us reason to know there is a God, probably the source of your intrigue. We all have a conscience which further testifies from within each of us. These are experiences we all have and your own experience should speak to continued
rtslayer 1 year ago
@LookieHippie continued... Then there is the Bible as a source of evidence. Like a history book it provides evidence. It can be corroborated by other historical evidences. if you really want to search those out I can refer you to such. Once you see that these people did exist as the bible says. You can look at their lives the changes that took place, the things they did. i.e. The apostles lived with Jesus, saw him crucified and alive again and ascend to heaven. They had the Holy Spirit continued
rtslayer 1 year ago
@LookieHippie come upon them. They performed miracles, had seen miracles done, They knew first hand, eyewitnesses (that should be worldly evidence) and testified that Jesus is the Christ and that these things happened. Their testimony was not to their earthly benefit. They were persecuted, beaten, stoned and gruesomely killed. They knew it would happen, saw it happen to others all around them and still testified that it is so. If it weren't true they would have known (eye witnesses) continued
rtslayer 1 year ago
@LookieHippie and if it weren't so they would have denied Christ. Even knowing it is so it is difficult to stand up to persecution, Peter failed, though that was before he witnessed the resurrected Christ and later the Holy Spirit, After that not even death could separate him from loving God and testifying that Jesus is the Christ. There are many other evidences, I know I don't do them justice in my own words! I apologize for what many proclaim and exhibit as following Christ! (continued)
rtslayer 1 year ago
@LookieHippie Please, don't attempt to worship others that say they are Christians instead seek God and you will find him. Study the scripture and do not be led astray by men and their craftiness! There is a God...YHWY...the God of the Bible. He loves you and wants amazing things for you! He definitely doesn't want to through you into hell but because he is righteous, he must punish wickedness. So Jesus came and took that punishment, to pay for our wickedness. We just have to repent and believe!
rtslayer 1 year ago
@rtslayer Nevermind the fact that the the bible was written by people. How old do you believe the earth is?
bjlong231 1 year ago
@LookieHippie sorry that got so long... there really is so much more evidence! Seek God... I know I can't make you believe in God... but if you seek God (earnestly) you will find him and He can give you faith (it is the gift of God you know)
Peace to you, friend!
rtslayer 1 year ago
@rtslayer How does someone who doesn't believe in a god earnestly seek that god? It seems to me that you're saying that we have to believe that god exists before we see any evidence for him. which to me is a completely ass backwards method for finding the truth about anything. How do we get over that?
Griexxt 1 year ago
@Griexxt Sorry man,if you are blind and wish to remain so then you will. But God made it plain to see that there is a God by creation itself. Inside each of us is evidence, we have a spirit/soul/life force however you try to explain it, we have a conscience and moral awareness. All of these cause men to realize that there is a God, Creator, Supernatural being, we are not a mistake, and somewhere inside, each of us knows that unless we purposefully deny the truth. That's Y seek! find the Creator!
rtslayer 1 year ago
@rtslayer I want to believe what is demonstrably true. If you want to call that "wishing to remain blind", then so be it. I don't think so.
You're not the first one to say that creation itself is evidence of God. What I'd like to know is; according to you, what would the world have to look like for it not to be evidence of God's existence?
And there you go again, we have to accept that it's true before we can see that it is. That is a very bad practice in my opinion.
Griexxt 1 year ago
@Griexxt how about this... look inside yourself, as I said last time, not just that everything had to be created (which should be reason enough to seek the truth), reread that part if you would. According to me...? it would be shear fiction to think any of creation could exist without a creator, God. And because I know him, he's evident in my life, I have a relationship with him, that's experiential knowledge. Perhaps if everything were dead, nothing with life, spirit or soul. No not even then!!
rtslayer 1 year ago
@rtslayer Your experience has no value as evidence to me. I have not experienced it.
If no universe could have existed without God according to you, then the fact that the universe is as it is, is not evidence specifically of your God.
We see things very differently. You accept God's existence a priori. I'm not willing to accept anything a priori.
Griexxt 1 year ago
@Griexxt Peace to you!
rtslayer 1 year ago
@chicraig6421 Please I am just a man but I will try to explain... I have a son. If I tell him to do something, even though I know he wants to do something else and prolly will do his own thing(perhaps I am almost certain/know), when the time comes he will be punished if he disobeyed... even though I "knew" he would. God is huge and we cannot fully comprehend him. I believe that he actually knows, can see through time unlike us. But wants us to choose him... to love him. He let's us choose even
rtslayer 1 year ago
Two important things to consider when making comments. One is that when one's spelling or grammar is awkward, it might not be the author's fault. The reprint occasionally makes the error for whatever reason. It has happened to me, and I am very careful regarding these matters. The other is to respect one another's views. Some of the nasty responses I've read are totally uncalled for. There are two sides to EVERY view. Listen and hopefully learn.
tahoemack 1 year ago
God doesnt change, God is the same in the begining and end, god doesnt comand people to murder obviosly have mis read the bible,
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia Oh no? "You should not let a sorceress live. Exodus 22:17"
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13
All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9"
"and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. 2 Chronicles"
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart bottom one i'd have to search up on, but sorceress worship satan people who claim to see dead people and such and claim to speak to dead and such are only speaking to demons, by contacting demons you could place in demons to make people die or sick, there for you put them to death because they risk others, and as for honoring mother and farther your parents are also seen as GOD the farther to abide by them is to abide by the commandments other wise if they say kill they are wrong
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia All that was crap based on your belief, which apparently included the idea that your parents are gods and you must be slave to them. You clearly don't have the ability to think logically.
Plus your saying that, oh no god doesn't approve of murder, except when he does, Lol
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart not true, actually I dont bash people with my veiws force people to do so, I said my farther is god, and every one was made in the image of god to be god because god like us wants to have a family an reproduces! in my oppinion
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia No, this god was made in the image of man. As the saying goes, if dogs had a god, he'd have 4 legs and a tail. But at any rate, if you're not already in it, I'd suggest you look into the mormon church.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Why would i look into mormons they nutters! and any way you have your choice to beleive that but satan makes you think what you think GOD is all perfect
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@NEXTCMedia "and every one was made in the image of god to be god " These were your words, and that is what mormons believe. If they're nutters than you're a nutter too.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia The God of the Bible commit murders Himself. The God of the Old Testament needs to be in hell.
allTRIPLE1 1 year ago
@allTRIPLE1 Actually the god of the old testiment is the same as the new you just have to read it properly MAN brings death on himself
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia You misspelled the word, testament. FAILED
allTRIPLE1 1 year ago
@allTRIPLE1 OMG you seriose you going on about my spelling yet you miss spelled MISS SPELLED, ITS NOT MISSPELLED! Dumb ass
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia Actually, it is "misspelled". Please look it up before you try and correct someone's spelling.
chrisbrooks711 1 year ago
Who are we to talk back to god! satans genocidal not god! if a man makes a cup from clay or what ever can it turn around and say okay now im not gonna give you tea or serve tea am fucking off BYE! no same goes man cant say to god im gonna kill you do what ever I want and still live forever you do what you wanna do you die SIMPLE!
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia That's a lot of rambling there. Well, I'll respond anyway. "Who are we to talk back to god! satans genocidal not god! i" First of all, satan only appears once in the hebrew scriptures, and not until Job, where he is refereed to as a child of god and he can do NOTHING WITHOUT GODS PERMISSION. Second of all, the bibles are quite clear who's committing the genocide, the hebrew god. Unless you're claiming that satan was the one that caused the flood, or that killed all the children in
humanistheart 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia egypt, or that satan was the one commanding the hebrew people to wipe out entire civilizations save for their virgin women who could be kept as sex slaves. Are you maintaining the entire jewish and christian religion is actually inspired by satan, not this yaweah fellow?
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Actually Im jewish christian and god only tells his chosen to fight for freedom if you actaully read up on the egypt and hebrews GOD gave phearow sorry spelling, but gave him choices let his people go or stay! and man cant say what is murder or not and what is sin or not only god! there for if there is sick and sin and pain in a nation to whipe a nation or person out of life is only of GOD no man can do that but with morality Men MURDER children look at american army!
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
@NEXTCMedia "Actually Im jewish christian " No, those are mutually exclusive terms.
"and man cant say what is murder or not and what is sin or not only god! "
All you're saying is, you think if this god existed he could do whatever the hell he wants, like raping and mass genocide and you have to call it good for some reason. That's scary. Really, really scary.
humanistheart 1 year ago
Actualy man made those rules stoning people GOD made the commandments dumb arse
NEXTCMedia 1 year ago
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miraclemannequin 1 year ago
morality in the bible hasn't changed... the penalty for immorality is still death... the penalty is just not enforced until the judgement before God himself (instead of "on her wedding night" in your example)... at which time if you are found to be guilty of Adultery/fornication(sex outside marriage) or any other immorality you would be sentenced to Death eternal
rtslayer 1 year ago
@rtslayer
That's a fallacy of equivocation.
theycallmebobFOO 1 year ago
@rtslayer Please explain to me then the fact that God knows all, before we are born, during life, after death. So if that is true - God knows all - why is there a judgement (day) as God already knows? I get so confused with all the double speak.
Thanks
chicraig6421 1 year ago
So, how'd you get that shiner?
embalyst 1 year ago
I used to be an athiest like you. At that point in my life I was about your age, searching, as you are, and had no positive role model in the christian faith. Then I met my wife. A beautiful wonderful very moral christian. I had direction in my life, studied the bible and now know in my heart of hearts that there IS a God. I enjoy watching your videos because you remind me of myself 20 years ago. Analizing, intellectualizing and wondering. I love listening to your athiest arguements Scott :)
RedPortiaOne 1 year ago
@RedPortiaOne Don't take this the wrong way, I by no means mean to be inflammatory, but your story brings me great sadness. I mourn your loss. Your story is a perfect illustration as to why religion exists.
playerwithfaith 1 year ago
@playerwithfaith I will certainly not take it the wrong way. And equally I hope you do not take it the wrong way when I mourn people like you who's hearts and souls are so empty that they are incapable of the miracle and love of faith. I truly mourn athiests. In everyone's life there comes a time when you ask the age old question 'is this all that I am'? You are a 20 year old and dont have the life or spiritual experience to consider creation on a serious level. Most athiests are young like you
RedPortiaOne 1 year ago
@RedPortiaOne Of course not. I know that's not you speaking, but your religion. You have become part of the system that assimilates and controls your fellow man. Your simulacrum speaks for you now, you stopped analyzing, intellectualizing, and wondering about the world around you. You took the easy way out, the quick answer. Not that I blame you for that. Billions of others do the same. For some people, its easier to go through life that way.
playerwithfaith 1 year ago
@RedPortiaOne "and had no positive role model in the christian faith" I used to be a christian, but there was no positive or moral things in that religion.
"very moral christian" That's an oxymoron.
There is no god. Deal with it.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Another empty hearted athiest, there is a God, and you will meet him when you die...deal with it. Have a nice day :)
RedPortiaOne 1 year ago
@RedPortiaOne Things that exist have evidence of their existence. Your genocidal god does not. Deal with it.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart Its called faith mr empty souled troll. You are blocked as I can waste no more of my valuable time on you...deal with it. Peace and love be with from the kingdom of God :)
RedPortiaOne 1 year ago
@RedPortiaOne Neither peace nor love can come from a genocidal fictional monster. Seriously, how does one lovingly rape a women? Or lovingly commit mass genocide or infanticide? How does one lovingly kill homosexuals or those that don't believe in your imaginary tyrant? What's loving about rape there buddy? Your sick!
humanistheart 1 year ago
Conclusion of previous comment:
God having different purposes for different people doesn't mean He changed His mind. He has (had) separate goals with the OT and NT morality. It doesn't mean God's morality changed. It means that there were different rules for people made so God could do His thing, basically
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer "He has (had) separate goals with the OT and NT morality. It doesn't mean God's morality changed."
I would disagree. When you change what you call right and wrong, it's a change in morality.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart You're right, but that doesn't have to be a problem. If morality changed it doesn't mean God changed. It means God had different purposes with different people in different times. Morality changed because a certain purpose was fulfilled and He could move on in His plans of redemption.
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer I suppose you could make that argumeant, but what does that say about this fictional deity? That at one time, part of his 'plan' included ordering mass genocide, infanticide, allowing slavery and the raping of women. It says that morality based on this god is meaningless, because he just says whatever the hell he feels like. Morality for christians just means 'because I said so' which isn't morality at all. In short, it means christianity has no morals.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart This isn't a simple issue. I struggle with this personally and don't really know the best way to explain it. First of all; God ordering those things isn't the rule. We've got the law and God only a few times in history deemed it necessary for it to be overruled by His order. The overrule of the law isn't prescriptive, just descriptive, so it doesn't give us any reason whatsoever to justify such actions nowadays.
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer Think about it, at one point rape was moral and now its immoral? That's not the sign of an intelligent being, but a sadistic idiotic one.
And, once again, it means that there is no bases for morality in christianity other than 'because I said so' which is not morality but tyranny.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart This means that rape and murder, etc. are not moral and never were. You can't say "well, if God once ordered it, it must be the new moral rule", because if the author of law chooses to override the law in a few instances, that doesn't change the law. It depends on your definition of morality (doing what God says, or following law) if morality was changed in those instances, but if it was, it was only in that single order.
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer "This means that rape and murder, etc. are not moral and never were." Your conclusion doesn't follow from you premise. Rape and murder were not one time things found in the hebrew scriptures, they were continuing issues throughout the vast majority of them. And at no point were these orders rescinded.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart I guess you could say there was no morality before the law was given to Moses, besides "do what God tells you". It was immoral for Adam and Eve to eat the apple, because it was disobedient to God. But disobedience to God usually incorporates some kind of moral sin like pride or hatred, etc. Obedience to God is actually a good moral guide. Obedience is out of love for God. Is killing God's sons out of love for God? Is rape out of love for God? Immorality is out of love for self
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer ""You can't say "well, if God once ordered it, it must be the new moral rule", " No one said this. For one thing the word once, as already pointed out, is an inaccurate one here, and 'new', I can't even imagine how you came up with that one.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart You seem to be implying that christian morality is worthless, because God Himself ordered things against His law. That's why I said that Him ordering things against His own law doesn't make that order a new law, unless it would've been a general order like "everyone, do this!". You cannot extrapolate from "Joshua did this, as God ordered him" a change in morality. The law remains exactly the same, so christian morality stands ever so firm.
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer "(doing what God says, or following law)" Doing what a tyrant commands is in no way analogous to morals.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart I think your underlying question is "how can you honor a God who ordered such things?". This is purely dependent on your view of God. If you think He's God, and therefore all knowing, all powerful, benevolent,etc. you will trust that God knew what He did and you will trust that the world was probably off a lot worse without those actions. These "complaints" mostly come from atheists, because they have an extremely low and inaccurate view of God, which doesn't allow Him to be God
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer ""how can you honor a God who ordered such things?". No, that was not my 'question' at all, especially since I asked no question. You're premise is that one has to believe this god is all knowing and benevolent, to be okay with his actions. Well obviously. Although despite your admittance that this god could do anything, like anal rape dead children, and you'd still call him benevolent, I'd still like to suggest you look the word up.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart You're looking at this in a man centered way. According to your reasoning a benevolent God would have to be a slave of our desires and wishes to be benevolent. Did it ever cross your mind that having us go through severe suffering could be the most loving thing for God to do if it draws us to Him? For all we know genocide was God's way to get all those people into heaven and they're greatly rejoicing. Get your eyes off of yourself and on God's purposes as God
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer "You're looking at this in a man centered way. According to your reasoning a benevolent God would have to be a slave of our desires and wishes to be benevolent"
I never said or implied that. But benevolent precludes the idea of eternal tormeant for doing something another being doesn't care for, and it certainly precludes the torture of children, the slaughtering of infants, the enslavement of other beings, the raping of women, and so on and so on. Did you not look the word up?
humanistheart 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer "For all we know genocide was God's way to get all those people into heaven and they're greatly rejoicing. "
That's stupid. If he created heaven he doesn't need to slaughter people to let them in.
humanistheart 1 year ago
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@vincentjdrummer "benevolent,etc. you will trust that God knew what He did and you will trust that the world was probably off a lot worse without those actions." So you trust that women getting raped makes the world better some how. Wow.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer At any rate the point you missed to widely was that christianity has no ethics what so ever. Your bases of 'right and wrong' is only 'because I said so' which has no moral value what so ever.
humanistheart 1 year ago
@humanistheart No ethics whatsoever? I'm not even going to reply to that.
Right or wrong isn't based on "I said so", it is based on "God said so". God gave us the law and wrote it on our hearts (aka: morality). Therefore the law is a case of "God said so". To me God saying what's right and wrong has infinitely more value than whatever value it could have being some evolved instinct so we can live our lives in submission to survival of some species that will be forgotten the moment it dies
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
@vincentjdrummer Yes, 'god said so' is the same thing as 'because I said so' if your speaking form the position of said fictional god, which I was. How did you not put that together?
"To me God saying what's right and wrong has infinitely more value" A being that orders mass genocide, infanticide, slavery, the abuse of men women and children, and rape has no morality. And again, because I said so is not morality, it's tyranny.
humanistheart 1 year ago
Good video. I don't agree with your final conclusion. Morality (as in: the rules for mankind) has certainly changed, but that doesn't mean that God has changed His mind. God had different purposes with people in the OT and NT. Lets say the OT laws were made to separate a distinct people who will get to see the importance of godly living; therefore hard punishment. When that purpose was established God came for redemption. Without the OT morality nobody would see the weight of sin and redemption
vincentjdrummer 1 year ago
Very good.
Also: why does it take an *atheist* to explain to me what sin is?
MrDweebToYou 1 year ago
i agree... the world is dynamic in every ways, there are constants in physics, but whenever humans are involved there are variables, there are changes, morality is human, and it changes.
tsuishanlam 1 year ago
do me a favour and watch this, dw it aint a video on preaching it is part of a debate Atheism vs Theism
tharip 1 year ago
Very impressive. You get it.
supermandan85 1 year ago
morality is defined as a doctrine or system of morals, and morals are very basically the distinction between right and wrong. sin is defined as anything you think, say, or do that breaks god's laws (very basic). you cannot use the context of the new covenant in todays world because it is the old covenant by taking the story from the OT you are performing eisegesis (basically taking verses out of context)
jeremyaha13 1 year ago
So glad to see this video.... this is exactly the subject I have been arguing with a "christian" friend :)
mimichelle1000 1 year ago
Morality HASN'T EVER changed.
HDell1994 1 year ago
@HDell1994
If morality hasn't changed, how do you explain giving woman equal rights, ridding of slavery and recognizing blacks as people with rights? The bible fails in all of the aforementioned topics. It's a seperate debate to say the bible outlines objective morality, but you would then be wrong twice. So which direction are you suggesting I hand you your rightous ass?
atrasz 1 year ago 2
@atrasz God hasn't ever changed.
(Responding to this comment will be a total waste of your time because I'm not going to get into a debate with you, good luck and God Bless you.)
HDell1994 1 year ago
@HDell1994
It is rare I see someone admit defeat after a single reply, but I do respect your honesty.
atrasz 1 year ago
@atrasz It's not that, it's just that I've been in too many debates to realize that it won't get either of us anywhere.
HDell1994 1 year ago
I just finished having this discussion with another person here on youtube. It's crazy how (as you noted ) no matter what we always get to this point when talking to christians...(sighs). I gets awfully tiresome after a while.
yarealpoof 1 year ago
No, Scott, you only THINK it was an accident. *runs*
psymon208 1 year ago
dude not even with a messed up eye you will stop blasphemy god... dude, have some fear.
luvtwins18 1 year ago
@luvtwins18 have some fear? are you kidding? fear of what?
DocStrange0123 1 year ago
The Law of Moses which you are referring to was for a nation of bedraggled sojourners without home and without a system of jurisprudence. We are talking about the Bronze age, Moses is taking his people through the wilderness they are a nation on the move traveling through hostile terrain. Strict laws was prescribed because it was necessary for their survival. You should read some of early American laws, Read T.Jeffersons laws on punishments for examp. Homo's are castrated and lesbos deformed!
nef2442 2 years ago
Why make a vid on morality and plant your entire diatribe on a strawman fallacy? Theoretical Bullshit is the perfect title for the nonsense being spewed in this vid!
Take off the postmodern glasses before trying to understand the Bible. Cause you are completely out of context!
When you said morals don't change but punishments do , your answer was , Un ungh! Lol! What a rebuttal! lol!
Then you say no words for ethical or non-ethical! Thats bullshit! try , righteous or wicked!
nef2442 2 years ago
@nef2442 Why is it that Christians never actually explain why they believe someone has made a wrong arguement? What is the strawman fallacy you are referring to?
Secondly I have a HUGE problem with the idea of taking the Bible out of context! If it is the inerrant word of God, then it is IMPOSSIBLE to take it out of context. It says what it says!
Either you believe it or you don't! If you don't like what the Bible says, then DON"T believe it. Either way, quit your damn whining!
johnedwards1968 1 year ago 2
I said there are words for ethical and non-ethical I even offered the words.
Here's an examp of taking something out of context smarty pants.
Founding Father Thomas Jefferson said that all homosexuals should be castrated in America and lesbians should have their faces deformed. What I'm not American if I don't believe we should castrate homo's?
What I'm not a Christian if I don't use a form of bronze age punishment against law breakers? Some of the Bible is purely DESCRIPTIVE history.
nef2442 1 year ago
@nef2442 There's a serious flaw in your analogy.
You can still BE an American and disagree with Thomas Jefferson!
Can you still BE a Christian and disagree with the Bible?
Also, these are not merely historical records. There are many commandments besides the 10 commandments, which modern people would find barbaric. Have you actually read the Bible?
johnedwards1968 1 year ago 2
My analogy was made for the purpose to highlight a simple verity, that parts of the OT are DESCRIPTIVE history. You would not be taking the Bible of out context if you were to hear in the news that Jews and Christians were running around stoning people, and Killing Amorites, and Hittites, etc.
I haven't killed any Hittites lately and I haven't stoned anyone. And I don't have to disagree with the OT and I can still be a Christian. Call it "unity in diversity" but its not illogical!
nef2442 1 year ago
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moegreen2 2 years ago
I'm sorry but...how did someone accidentally kick you in the face? It seems more likely that you got into one of those badass bar fights.
Thothsglyphs 2 years ago
How can God change his mind if God and his mind are all that is? Assuming you see that God, being all by His very nature, could not be anything less than all. What is all cannot change, because there is nothing else, it being all there is, to change into. The bible is not God. At best it can only reflect or point to an aspect of God's nature. But it's a book, written and edited by men, perhaps in parts, sometimes inspired by God, and perhaps, in parts, sometimes not.
gigdels 2 years ago
because gods not real?
maikeru01 2 years ago
God did not change his mind, but the translators of the bible mistranslated. Yes, i believe in God, and yes i know that saying the bible is not accurate leaves me open for the 'if you dont think the bible is accurate then what are you worshiping attack'.
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
no, the problem is why did god let the bible get mistranslated...its the only thing that connects you with him.
JamesTR4 2 years ago
why did God let the bible get mistranslated? well we have to ask God that, but i say its the same reason we exist. free will
what connects me to God is filling an emptiness in my heart. i know that doesnt make any sense to you but i cant explain it.
yes morality changes. what was considered moral then isnt moral now. and by translating the language into something we might understand wont work. we have to live that culture, at that time to truly get a grasp of what the bible is talking about.
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
u don't let free will intefere with your plans of revelation...God could make it so that the bible doesn't get mistranslated , without the loss of free will...he didn't...So he's a moron...ur god is a moron :)...and he doesn't exist, the moron
JamesTR4 2 years ago
he doesnt? how do you know. this is your logic, 'he doesnt exist so the bible is a lie'. that is a huge fallacy. they are different, God and the bible. you cant disprove one and think you have disproved the other. sure the bible makes God something impossible, but thats only if you take the words to be literal. its poetic duh. we dont have a manual to read the bible so i take everything with a grain of salt. i dont know if God exists, but i have hope that he does. its called faith.
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
you can stay in your room and be angry or you can try to understand what i mean, and where i am coming from and where every religious person is coming from. use empathy, and mimic like the apes you love so much. :D
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
we dont get our morality from the bible..the bible is a book. we get our 'morality' from eating the apple from the tree of knowledge... we get the knowledge of whether we are doing something or not. so that gives us some way to differentiate from apes and whatnot. but the fact that it changes doesnt disprove anything.
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
We get our morality from knowledge? lol, science is against u buddy, cause apes do have knowledge and are sociable too. They also have morals and stuff...so, u don't know what the fuk u are talking about sorry :) have a nice day...
JamesTR4 2 years ago
why are you hostile? are you having a bad christmas? you are being or thinking to broad, you have no idea what im saying because you are too anger to even consider it. according to christians we get our morals from the tree of knowledge. the tree lets us see what is wrong or right. it doesn't give us knowledge or make all society the same. honestly, go to some sort of theological school if you want to debate the validity of the bible. you sound really ignorant..
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
First of all, u didn't address my point, ur simply not capable of following a simple conversation-topic. Second of all, if he doesn't exist, of course the bible, which claims he does exist is a lie...duh So no, they are not so different. If u disprove his existence, then the bible is a lie... So simple. And faith is belief without evidence. So take ur unfounded beliefs and go for some fresh air, become a bit more realistic and come back to earth fOR ONCE!!!
JamesTR4 2 years ago
yes i did address your point. read it again. tree of knowledge doesn't give knowledge. it just gives awareness. unless you are an ape, you dont know what they feel.
i understand where you are coming from, and its useless to try to get you to believe in what i believe, just as its useless to get me to believe in what you believe. im just answering this video's error.
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
Who says the bible is God's word..the bible. they are different. its like saying i have another object that says made by God. it doesn't mean that it is or isn't. Basing your argument on this is illogical right?
Basing your faith is different, its like you said, faith is belief in something you dont have any proof of.
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
my friend no u didn't address it at all. i said we don't get morality from knowledge, we get it like any other living thing gets it...Read the god delusion from richard dawkins and be enlightened...also ur mistaken to say that bible-god are seperate, if god goes down, so does the bible. calling someone hostile is an ad hominem attack, a logical fallacy and completely irrelevant to the topic..before u write about the videos errors, judge your own mistakes
JamesTR4 2 years ago
the video said that christians believe that there morals are given from God. im sure he got that from pslams, a book of poems but i was saying that 'christians' believe they get their morals from the tree. not directly from the tree, but simple awareness from it. you cant feel what apes go through, its just guessing. i guess my way, youre guess your way. my way is illogical, your way lacks any meaning. much like our situation, if im right then i die happy. if your right, you just die.
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
and i called you hostile because you said that "i didnt know what the fuk i was talking about".. sorry, i didnt mean to offend you..
tra12345iscool 2 years ago
lastly, to reply to your comment before, if god wanted to protect our free will to choose him, he wouldn't let the bible get mistranslated, that's just immoral and destroys our free will to choose based on what we know, making us choose based on chance. Some god...if people don't know god for certain, how can they choose between him and not him .... u are extremely unreasonable and full of excuses. as i promised i'm done talking to you, cause u aren't worth my