SIMON LEACH - Trimming & talking !

[401198]

Simon,

I know exactly what your brother means by "phart". There definately is a point when any talented artist gets too commercialized in what they are doing. Once some artists get publicity their art loses soul and they get too caught up in the money and fame.

[CharlesEaton2008]

Simon , I started pottery because of your videos, but I don't agree with your statement about art pottery. In the USA we have face jugs, which have been part of our history for 200 years. Most of my work is pattern after Bernard Leach , but some is art potter (Face Jugs ect ) these are made to keep our local history alive. Anyway all I ask is that you keep a open mind when it come to art pottery not all is the same. You friend and student Charles, Clover SC USA

[dutch803]

I must say that the imaginations of both Hamada and Bernard Leach is what spurred my interest in learning to throw on the wheel. I am just a old plumber, not an artist, yet somehow I have always been able to appreciate the simple lines and forms of a good pot. I just watched Simons video showing his wabisabi fluting a bowl. Perhaps the well trained artist only sees mistakes, I see a beautiful pot. Thanks for sharing your art Simon and I look forward to your video on what you think makes a pot

[DirtKickerStudio]

The discussion of "What is Art" is very problematic. Art means something different to everyone. I think we all agree that "Art" evokes emotion.. whether it's music, a painting, a play or even a simple clay bowl.. especially when it's thrown at you :)

[ruthmccollum]

Hi Simon. It seems that we humans are unique in this need to dialogue about "what is art". - seems to be a lot of ego involved. I have to admit that my ego was tickled by the comment of a recent customer that her coffee tastes better since she bought my cup, but I just want to make useful things and in the making live artfully, in the moment.

[post2dennis]

Again Simon great discussion start.

As to tonyh487, if you watch the video of the kiln opening you will see that Simon's pots are beautiful as well as functional.

I like pottery that is functional art.

My feeling is that if the piece is beautiful then it will be a pleasure to use. But then again beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Thanks again Simon.

[stevebootonceramic]

Hi simon It was the jaw dropping beauty and honest simplicity of a Hamada pot that I saw in a museum/shop in St Ives Cornwall that inspired me to return to ceramics after a 12 year lay off .Maybe the ART of a piece is in the emotional response it creates. with me its the simplicity, purity of form and its honest use that inspires. I suspect it is different for all people which is why there is so much conjecture over your original question... thanks for asking it.

[panschoase]

Simon! The art of Hamada and BL did definitely not end 2 generations ago. It is very much alive still. I use their work as inspiration all the time.

Then to the question: what is a good pot like?

I think everyone has their own answer. My answer is, that it should be pleasing to the eye, and to the touch. Also, if it is meant for a special purpose, it should work that way. Therefor it could have millions of shapes and still be a good pot.

Åse from Sweden

[Sorka42]

As a potter that favors functional pots over decorative, I think that a good pot is one that is visually pleasing in both shape and color, while being comfortable to use.

But art pots are just as valid a craft. Those that create them often break new ground that a functional potter might never think to do, but one day might find useful.

[tonyh487]

Simon,

As much as I like your videos I dont like your dismissal of artists working in clay; just because you are not an artist does not mean artists cannot create with clay.

Clay is just material like paint - everyone can use paint but not everone is an artist. In the same vein, not all artists are craftsmen (precious few are today) but many are, especially as you go back in time when all artists were craftsmen to a great degree.

The line between craftsman and artist can be a very fine one.

[Studio712]

I don't hear anything in what Simon says here about dismissing artist who work in clay. He's asking the question "what makes a good pot? There's a lot of ill-conceived and poorly crafted work out there in clay, in the name of "ART". So he's got a valid point to make by asking the question.

Artist /Craftsman should be asking themselves questions about the work that they make, otherwise the work becomes a self indulgent trip.

[tonyh487]

Then listen again. around 5:10 he starts the part about "Phony art and egotistical pots".

That only comes from functional potters with no imagination. Remember, the art of Hamada that Leach found ended 2 generations ago.

[sleachpots]

@tonyh487 ...come on guys , lets hear it ! ...did the art of Hamada & Bernard Leach die two generations ago !!!!!! Lets get the fact right here for a start .Perhaps it died in those who hearts & minds were closed to receiving it in the first place - otherwise it is very much alive ! .... You cant kill truth !!! PS . "imagination alive & kicking " SL

[tonyh487]

C'mon Simon. Show me one of your pots with artistic merit, instead of the functional pablum, craft though it may be.

I didnt say art died, you said it doesnt exist in pottery.

Tony Hancock

[rubberstampman]

back to you simon,

When I am making pots my hope is that it is comfortable to hold, there is a desire to use it every day, it functions well (doesn't drip, isn't tippy, etc) - all these things I take into consideration and I am always learning new ones. That is what my functional work is about. There is another side of me that is focused on the decorative pot.

True craft is an art. Hamada's and Bernard's works are very much alive and great sources of inspiration.

[Studio712]

Thank you Rubberstampman

Amen, my sentiments exactly, true craft is an art!

As for you tonyh487, you're very disrespectful in your last post.

[claymoma]

I am ABSOULETLY thrilled your still here in the states, how long are you staying??? Love to be able to attend a workshop this spring or the beginning of summer.

Warm regards from Debbie in Florida

[mcscaz]

I started to try and answer this question . . a good pot is a huge number of things but not necessarily any one attribute. Although I would say good pots stand out and make a statement. A good pot is one that can be universally appreciated or appreciated by only a few. For me it has to make a definite statement. When I look at a pot I want to know where it has come from and where it is ending and I like to see it well finished .

[skindawg16]

if you are not going to trim a foot into the piece why dont you just wet trim the sides ? time saver, just a thought

[clearvision5]

I like to consider myself always learning and have found that my biggest challenge is trying to be "creative". Making the samething over eventually gets easier and actually kind of brainless (like driving;) Question "Who decides what is a good pot?" Depending on it's function, (a look pretty pot or funcitonal), would change the criteria. Functional pottery has different requirements than "artsy phartsy" pieces. A functional potters aren't the best judges of "phartsy" and visa versa ;)

[MamereClaire]

Simon asked what is a good pot, not what is art. A good pot is something worth thinking about and discussing albeit my good pot may not be your good pot. What is your good pot ?

Thanks Simon for the video, Claire

[credenza1]

If someone makes a ceramic object and calls it art, that's fine. A lot of such work is initially striking, but ultimately uninteresting, I prefer a sound, functional piece of ware that quietly gives pleasure through traditional resonance and familiarity of use, to a technically clever object that imposes itself on people through stridency of form or decoration. I particularly refer to monstrosities such as "art" teapots, which I always have an urge to pick up and dash against a wall.

[DancerAngel22]

A lot of people here in my class all they care about is the glazes on the clay. They really don't care about the pot itself and more of how to get color on it. I understand everything there is to know about glazes and how to do stuff.

[musicalme88]

I dont think it is possible to really nail down a specific criteria for calling a pot a "good pot" or "art" just like the surrealists created new ways of making and conceiving art, potters break the molds that were set before them. The most basic of things would be a beginning, middle and end to a pot, but the rest will be debatable amongst potters forever. While some scream function, others scream concept.. It is a regular topic during those late night firings of the kilns here. -Steve, CA

[clearvision5]

Agreed!

[rav8452]

as a blind man convinces himself there is no knowledge in seeing, as a paralyzed man sees no need to walk for sustenance.

simon, you're one of the most talented potters in the world, but your disregard for impractical art was bred into you.

a flaw everyone shares, including myself.

[Mtrueherz]

i do not agree with the people saying that good pots are accidents. I believe that the goal of making pots is to have controle over the medium but to let the mediums own nature show. this is no accident.

[mcscaz]

Function, form or creativity, they are all the same thing but they don't happen at the same time.

[brookfieldpottery]

There is no such thing as ceramic art because the nature of pottery is that so many factors effect the finished pot that you can't pretend that the end product is what you planned all along. Art is creating a thing to look at, in and of itself; a reflection of an idea made whole. Pottery is a craft, used to create a functional object. If the finished pot is beautiful appreciate your good fortune.

[tnorton314]

Agreed and disagreed. I think you make an excellent point in that one cannot take credit for his ceramic product, as it truly is a gift when a pot turns out particularly well. Those that turn out "as planned" aren't usually very good. However, to say that such a beautiful act of nature isn't art is to create a very strict definition of art. I'm at a loss to think of an artwork that doesn't in some way draw it's subject matter from nature or allow nature to somehow contribute to the product.

[brookfieldpottery]

You're right. I meant to distinguish between the two definitions. Not that produced pots can't be labelled as art because of their beauty, but rather that to call yourself a ceramic artist is a mistake as it implies the deliberate intention of created art. An artist can take a brush with some red paint on it and paint a red line as intended. A potter can take a grey glaze which should turn green, choose to reduction fire it and hope it may turn to red.

[musicalme88]

I dont feel that the variation in firing really disregards a piece as being art. You know the possibilities that are there when it comes to glazing a pot, and for myself, (being a wood-fire potter), think that the art comes in the ability to master the clay, first. anyone can throw some glaze on a piece of clay and call it something, but making a form that compliments a glaze or firing technique is much more difficult. More than painting a red line in my opinion..

[brookfieldpottery]

You missed my point: A pot can be an art object. What I objected to was potters calling themselves artists. Pottery is a craft not an art. There should be pride in the title craftsman as it implies skill and knowledge applied to material, producing a work of functional beauty. If someone chooses to call one of your pots a work of art, be happy. But don't insist on calling your pots art and hope someone might eventually agree.

[clearvision5]

Ha, ha, Marketing Rule #1 "Call it what you want them to believe it is." It shouldn't be done, but it is :)

Definition "Art is the process or product of deliberately arranging elements in a way that appeals to the senses or emotions." I often I look through Ceramics Monthly and wonder why they pick certain feature pieces. Then I read about the "artists" education and wonder "What am I not seeing, why don't I get it?" It must be art though ..it invoked an emotion...!

[tinkerfeet]

I couldn't agree more with you and your brother about art.

[stevebootonceramic]

As the Zen monk-poet Santoka said:

"Truth is seeing the new in the ordinary."

perhaps this is the true art in any pot

regardssteve

[notawuss]

I'm so impressed with how you recenter and hold everything in place. Impossible for me. What I'm forced to do is throw a roly-poly chuck and then line it with paper towels so the wet clay doesn't contaminate the pot I'm trimming. It works, but I wish I could do it your way.

[stevebootonceramic]

Hi there instead of using paper towels I use cling film in my clay chuck

regards

steve

[MarksPottery]

Simon

Do you miss using your treadle wheel? I saw a video the other day about your grandfather and your father was being interviewed, in the background in several places a young lad was busy in the studio, was that you? More good ideas from you for us to use. Thanx