Aero-TV: Trace Engines - Re-Engineered Turbocharged Power

[5959512]

600hp car engines cost around 20k why does this cost 200k

[mrmouse8]

@5959512

Certification, a car engine does not go through anywhere near the levels or have the same costs to get past the FAA or Transport Canada. Also a 600hp car engine would last 30min to an hour in an aircraft as this engine is running 500hp continuous. A car needs only a small amount of hp to maintain speed and uses its max power for only a moment or two. That's a big reason for the cost.

[davetileguy]

@mrmouse8 Really?? do you even know what your talking about? how about saaayyy boat engines? do they coast? are they under continues strain?are they the same as an auto engine?yes heavy duty auto engines,I'd worry more about the prop reducer.WW2 engines were water cooled v-12s with superchargers and gear reduction. Current aero engines with their carb heat and magnetos are pathetic 100 yr old tech.

[mrmouse8899]

@davetileguy Boats are the closest to aircraft for the strain on the engine, but a boat when the engine blows you dont fall from the sky, carbs and magnetos are used due to redundancies and overall reliably and given I work in aviation specifically in certification of aircraft products which includes things like the trace yes I would say I know exactly what I was talking about. As for gear reductions things like the PT6 use them to drop from 60000rpm to 2000 with little problems

[davetileguy]

@mrmouse8899 I thoroughly understand gear reductions and the reason I mentioned them is they are the only failures I've heard of with automotive engines, besides poor cooling designs adapted to fit under the cowling,(p 51 radiator is underneath) Electronic ignitions do not just "give out" and if you wanted to be paranoid install 2 of them. Why on earth pilots are put in charge of carb heat is beyond me,fuel injection is more reliable than any manual carb. The Honda plane will prove me right.

[mrmouse8899]

@davetileguy yes you run fuel injection and its been done the snag is to do so requires redundancy which = weight airplanes are all about putting the lightest parts onto the plane to provide the maximum payload and at the end of the day a magneto, starter/generator and carb are lighter then dual alternators + a starter plus dual fuel injections etc etc. and the honda plane will prove nothing, its a jet not a piston pounder or a prop driven aircraft even

[davetileguy]

@mrmouse8899 When Honda does come out with a modern engine based on car tech. once again the U.S. will be left behind,mostly to attitudes like yours that defend 100 + yr old tech. No airliner or fighter jet flies without a computer ,my chevy vortech has 240,000 miles with only an alternator and fuel pump fail,both easily predictable and preventable.

P.S. I'm fully aware of what happens to a plane when the engine stops turning.

[mrmouse8899]

@davetileguy first off your idea behind honda is flawed, honda is using a jet turbo fan not a piston engine and to my knowledge they have no interest of producing anything other then jets. a jet engine is not well suited for lots of rolls hence why things like the C-130 Hercules are prop driven and notice how they are turbo prop? and notice how one of the most mass produced aircraft engines is a PT6 turbine not a piston engine?

[mrmouse8899]

@davetileguy also for the honda jet, given it was supposed to be in production years ago and still is not i wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it may a company has tried to produce an aircraft and failed not saying they will just saying the odds are against them and why are the odds against them? the very reason I said before for the cost CERTIFICATION the cost of certifying an aircraft like this will be 50 to 100 million today and thats not counting development costs or production costs.

[davetileguy]

@mrmouse8899 I'm not talking about the jet did you not read my post? did I say jet? it's a Honda -Teledyne project ,you'd think an aviation expert like yourself would be aware of that. Google is your friend.

P.S. Certification is not the big cost it's Litigation. Cesna 172 $250,000? crazy!

[mrmouse8899]

@davetileguy litigation is a problem yes, especially in the US for the rest of the world not so much as for Cessna 172 $250 000 yeah thats roughly the price of one whats the point? labour isn't cheap and driving rivets is labour intensive. as for honda teledyne no you said honda plane of which there is only the honda jet on supposed production. for the engine yeah so much development that all the news on it is from 2003/2004 and nothing sense.

[davetileguy]

@mrmouse8899 It is often said that the product liability situation has caused the large aircraft companies to minimize the production of piston aircraft. Cessna quit building single-engine aircraft ten years ago. They are now building a few models again due to a highly publicized promise made by Russ Meyer (Cessna CEO) to Senator Kassenbaum who pushed through the liability Statute of Repose legislation.

[mrmouse8899]

@davetileguy yes but remember the US is not the only country that builds aircraft, there are aircraft built all around the world lots of which are better built better designed and better equipped then what is made by Cessna or other such manufacturers. Also remember that during the time that Cessna (textron) and others ceased production the engine manufactures continued to produce engines. basic issues still boil down to certification costs and lack of production....

[davetileguy]

@mrmouse8899 Cessna 172 was certified a loooong time ago,it's current cost and temporary shutdown was due to litigation period. look it up,it's not my opinion it's a fact. It's engine is used in many aircraft which is why they continued manufacturing them. Lack of production is due to demand which is due to cost which is due to litigation. A circular problem.

[mrmouse8899]

@davetileguy i know exactly when the 172 was certified. again litigation is a US issue few other places in the world do the courts allow litigation to run out of control like the US. Again an engine like the Trace a big chunk of the cost to start manufacturing them is the certification, I have actually spoken at great length to one of the original designers of this engine back when it was known as the thunder predating Orenda owning it and the bulk of the cost was meeting certification

[jericdublin68]

Too bad it doesn't work--all bogus and they are now SHUTTING DOWN!!

[mrmouse8]

@jericdublin68

I know this is 2 months old but I have to ask based on what do you say this? because I have spoken to the original designer of this engine several times and the company i work for has been working with Trace to install this engine into an aircraft under an STC. I also know that it has been installed under an stc into 2 other aircraft

[aiRCGenius]

sounds interesting.