i pray for all you unbeleivers that you will one day find the lord and repent before it is to late, even darwin said ithe idea the eye could evolve is absurd
Faith is a none statement. Belief wihout question makes no sence. Faith does not equal peace, getting off one's bottom and doing something is what it takes , not faith.
Whats the worst thing Gina was not that you are an atheist but the fact you lied. If in the first place they knew you were one, that would have made a difference. Of course, the result of your deceit would be anger. That is natural and right for that matter. I hope though that those times you were there, it will affect your life in a more positive manner.
The Bible says David was righteous in all things except those concerning Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite.
In 1 Samuel 21, David lies about being on the king's business and about being insane(verses 2-8 and verses 12-13). The argument that David wasn't lying because he was to become King of Israel is bunk because lying is the act of making a statement that is intended to convey an idea that is false.
Hence, the Bible clearly sanctions lying and even commands it!
Why have any moral reservations at all, you stupid bitch? According to your own beliefs, you're nothing more than an emotive animal whose life has no ultimate purpose or meaning. All of your values come from a culture who has developed and been nurtured by the values of christianity. You're too fucking stupid to realize that. You babble on for 4 and a half minutes whining about ethics when the real truth is -- the people you duped are better people than you, and you know it.
@MazeleyFanClub yes, becuse people who endorsed slavery, nazism, and sexism in the past, not to mention homophobes in the present, are SO much better than people who are good for the sake of being good.
@Extra365 Atheists are usually pricks. You are one. This woman is too. There's nothing good about you, you're a closed-minded, arrogant fuck who would be better off killing yourself. Seriously, you think life has no meaning, so why not end yours?
by that logic, if one black guy is a prick, that means all black people are evil sons o bitches.
btw your god is a loser who kills egyptian babies, tortures anyone who doesnt agree with him, allows nimal sacrifice, and loves to ersecute people. also, jesus is a hipster gaywad.
@MazeleyFanClub I hate to demoralize you but please, do not drag Christianity to what you are doing. Babling curse words are never an indication of Christian faith. You are just showing to them that you are like them. Please, clean your words.
I know of an ex-atheist who, after a two hour conversation regarding God, said, outright, "I hate the concept of God because if there is a God, He must allow young girls to get raped, and innocent people to be butchered to death. I'm not going to follow a God like that!" I always say that most atheists believe that they don't need to believe in some fairy tale God to be good. One day, they will have great difficulty explaining how their goodness can get them into heaven (Titus 3:4-5)
I think you may have misunderstood the nature and intent of my comment. I was speaking in terms of hypothesis...I don't disagree with you at all, actually . With my admittedly heavy-handed comment, I was paraphrasing Paul. But thank you for your insight nonetheless.
There are three models of Government competing for world domination:
(1) Communist / atheist: where government officials decide and dole out your temporal rights if any
(2) Sharia Law: where the Qu'ron governs
(3) Judeo-Christian model, where God grants our rights & liberties and THEREFORE they are unalienable, power resides in we the people, we are sovereign and the government is our servant.
i jus wanna know who wrote the bible then? did one man write the bible? did a group of dudes come together and say to themselves...lets write a fucking epic, right now! i wanna know...
A hitman for the mafia called the iceman was a loving father, a faithful and wonderful husband, a kind and compassion man to his kids, and a good provider. He also violently killed people for money. As a Christian pastor, I've never argued that only those who believe in God have morals. You have received information from Christians who are ignorant of the Scriptures. Proof: learn about the Pharisees in the Bible. Although they lived by strict morals, their hearts were filled with immorality.
Okay, when someone writes a book, they are obviously not going to include real names in them without those peoples' consents, so this book is simply a perspective of the Christian world seen though a perspective that is certainly not seen before. And by the way, atheists are awesome.
First realize your a sinner...Believe in your heart God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, confess him as Lord, ask him to forgive your sins (repent of them), wash you in his blood, and make you his child. Read and obey the Gospel, it has the power to save your soul.
@HedeenJeff I know the dogma. You have to be flawed in order to be fixed. The "your a sinner" routine. Then, you convince others that they can't make decisions unless its through Jesus, otherwise, they are prone to sin because of original sin, which took place with a man and woman made out of dust and a rib with a talking snake....
@truvelocity Right, I cant make all my own decisions. Im a slave of Jesus Christ, I was disobediant to his spirit more than once and Iwash punished for it. I think hes been taking it real easy on me, I hope. I prayed for it a while back, Im new at this. Faith is more than just belief, its also trust and obediance.
@HedeenJeff I am sorry I offended you, but in my point of view, I can't follow something or any organized religion. I just can't. It is beyond me how anyone can believe in everlasting lake of fire if you don't do things a certain way to deserve everlasting life. To me, this is pure mythology. Superstition. Pretend. Yes, it is a harsh point of view, but I can't believe in something no matter how comforting or reassuring it can feel. I just think organized religions are delusional.
@truvelocity Its because Christianity is not meant to be a religion but a way of life. Its not that people are thrown to the "lake of fire" because they failed to do certain this and thats BUT because EVERY SINGLE ONE, including pastors, popes, priests, saints themselves, MUST be thrown there. What makes the difference is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ which offers to us a way out of the road to hell we are walking in. We do NOT deserve that but it is freely given.
@MidwayJournal Christianity has become a way of life just as Judaism has and many other beliefs are a way of life. Its called culture or sub-cultures within a society when many ways of life are lived from different religions under one nation. However, I stand by what I said in the first place, because the assertion or interpretation of a scripture is not based on reality. Its is a story and that's it.
Wow. Everybody has such strong opinions about God and Morality and on and on. Everybody's so logical. Everybody's so pious. Everyone is so articulate to the point of prolixity. If I want to pray, may I do so without being lambasted for my intellectual shortcomings? If I wish not to pray, may I do so without being bombarded with scripture after scripture chronicling my sure-to-be fiery end? There is no persuasion. Believe...or don't, just shut the fuck up.
I'm sad that you've heard about or have experienced the bombardment of Scripture with the intent to convert you to Christianity. There's no example of this bombardment in the Scriptures. However, "Arminian" churches believe that non-believers can be converted through reasoning, thus, the bombardment. But, the Bible indicates that conversion is up to God thru a simple presentation of the Gospel. If you believe, God made it possible. If you don't, you made your choice to remain as you were.
Wow, your right, you've persuaded me. And its a good thing you didnt "shut the fuck up" about what you believe, otherwise you wouldnt have persuaded me.
@BrutusBlackest No, I'm pretty sure you missed my point. Which is a shame really, as I hoped you would at least understand it. But I could be wrong, maybe you do understand it but just dont want to acknowledge it. So tell me then, what was my point?
@BrutusBlackest Well Done, your halfway there. But let me help you along a bit. I was pointing out the contradiction in someone who believes he can persuade people that "there is no persuasion". And you DO believe that there IS persuasion, otherwise ( and you drew this conclusion yourself) you would have "just shut the fuck up".But you didnt shut up, so either you have a contradiction in your beliefs or you are a hypocrite. So which one is it?
I see...As I said you, like most of the people who read that comment, took it totally out of context. That's cool though, that's the beauty of learning. Anyway, when I said, "there is no persuasion" I was speaking strictly in terms of religious beliefs. Further, I wasn't really using my own words, shame on me. As I said to someone else, I was paraphrasing a thought of St. Paul. Me (or anyone for that matter) shutting up only had relevance then to religious persuasion, to (con't)
I haven't changed my position on anything...please, if you have something useful to posit, by all means man...otherwise, for whateve reason, you seem eager to catch me in some fictional paradox you've concocted in your head, or make me sway in my position. To even suppose that there is no persuasion at all is preposterous. As I said, in terms of this thing though, I AGREE (read AND comprehend) with St. Paul. Each man is given a measure of faith...What you believe about (con't)
@BrutusBlackest You seem incapable of giving a straight answer to the question, so i'll say it again one more time, Does persuasion exist? Yes or No? There is no inbetween.
Wow. Of course persuasion exists as a possibility in most contexts. Why is there no in between though? ( Let me prepare myself for your "Aha!" moment...After this, I think I'll have to take a raincheck on a private continuance)
@BrutusBlackest Once again, you have not given me a straight answer. A straight answer to the question "Does X exist?" is either yes or no, and this is because, (to answer your question), something either exists or doesnt exist. This is known as the law of non-contradiction in logic - something cannot be both A and not-A (Exist and not-Exist). You have continually phrased your statements to mean both. Unfortunately I'm beginning to suspect that you are doing this to avoid both admitting your+
Seriously? That's cool, let me be the first to tell you then that no, there is no human life on mars w/o the aid of artificial equipment...So from this we can determine that (A) Humans exist somewhere, however (B) They do not exist everywhere. You're a fool and a charlatan. Good day.
Maybe its because you went off topic by talking about mars. I've only ever been talking about a blatant contradiction i've observed in your statement above, which you seem unable to admit.
Is there not a contradiction in you saying both that there is persuasion and that there is no persuasion?
When taken out of context, as you seem so intent on doing. Sarcasm is best used sparingly and by those with proper experience. As you've totally ignored my analogy, let me re-state it, (A) Humans exist, however (B) Humans do not exist everywhere. So in one state (A) is true, in another (B) is true, but does not negate (A) it's simple Boolean Logic. You are tangled in semantics. Perhaps if I'd provided proper footnotes and attribution initially...Ah, well, such is life.
This statement denies the law of non-contradiction, one of the axioms of logic. If you deny the law of non-contradiction, you are being illogical. Therefore your statement is proof that you are being illogical.
And you are being a incorrigible. I've just shown you how two different states of being can both be true, w/o negating the other, yet you refuse to accept this. If you like to debate for the sake of debate, that fine, but you've already lost this one.
@BrutusBlackest Your right, I have lost this argument. I have failed to persuade you to understand the contradictions in your statement. This is because I made the assumption that you would understand logic .This is the difference between us, I can accept when someone else makes a point, admit I am wrong and thus stay reasonable. You refuse to accept any point whatsoever, regardless of its logic, just so you can continue to pretend you are right. You are the definition of ignorance.
I really must apologize for my earlier remarks, but you really seem to be just f*ing with me, because as you said of me, you don't seem mentally challenged. I don't know. I do understand your argument though, and how you believe it to be true and relevant, really. You've just misapplied it.
@BrutusBlackest You know, I'm still genuinely stunned at how you choose to answer the question. I think that you do understand the consequences of saying such a nonsensical statement, because you don't seem like a retard, but you just couldnt answer the question, could you? And that's not meant as an insult, I'm saying that you are not a retard. I think we would both agree that a person who says nonsensical things and sincerely believes them is probably retarded, or is at least delusional.
@paddyodoyle But to continue my thought, If you didn't sincerely believe what you stated, doesnt that make you what you inaccurately insulted me as earlier, namely a charlatan?
I BELIEVE I did. Nowhere in my comment did I attempt to sway anyone's personal religious or otherwise theological beliefs...did I? Or, to be quite elementary, I was simply asking for a cease-fire on the religious debate.
@BrutusBlackest : Amen to that (he said jokingly)! Arguments are fruitless. The whole idea of god is irrelevant in my view so let the believers believe and non-believers carry on with their lives.
@BrutusBlackest I refuse, religion is evil, illogical, and must stop. I don't persecute people nor would I ever resort to violence but it has got to stop.
"Everybody has such strong opinions about God and Morality and on and on. "
Really? I have strong opinions about some moral issues and about logical truth, but not on God. The existence or non-existence of God really doesn't change much. Either way, my life is basically the same.
Recognize that your a sinner...Believe in your heart God raised Jesus Christ form the dead, confess him as Lord, ask him to wash you in his blood and make you his child, read and obey the Gospel, it has the power to save your soul.
I lied, I lied, I lied. And I found out they were Christians! And they actually treated me well after I told them that I lied. But that won't sway me from my present path. Please buy my book on bashing Christianity. It is so hard to get to know a Christian, you know those churches won't accept just anybody, especially on Sundays.
@GBS990 Oh please... Her book is non biased, loving and compassionate. Nothing in there to bash Christians whatsoever. Have you even bothered to read it?
@truvelocity Why is it the 'compasionate ones' are the ones that most easily justify lying? She states twice she lied to people (who did not lie to her) and then states her publisher made her lie, all for the greater good of course, When do we figure out moral compasses don't work very well when fed a steady diet of whatever feels good?
@GBS990 Leaders of religious movements lie for their political agenda, that isn't seen by you as breaching their moral compass in order to feed their followers a steady diet of whatever feels good?
The book was more important to bridge the gap of secular people in order to understand how the church works with understanding.
I think you need to look at it with an air of sophistication instead of dragging Jesus into it.
I think this kind of investigative "deceit" is perfectly ethical. It's called spying. For nonbelievers, this might even be considered a necessity since we often forget what it was like to be a believer, or perhaps we haven't been to church for years, so we don't know what the current movements in that culture are. Having an insider go under cover helps us understand how people can follow Sarah Palin in droves. I look forward to reading the book.
It's amazing that journalists get away with doing so many things that social scientists could never do because of the IRB. Then again, there's a world of difference between "reporting" and doing research.
Gina should question herself, "Where did my guilt, the 'toxic' feeling come from?" If there is no God, and if there are no absolutes, then why should she feel guilty about deceiving a group of people so extensively about who she was?
I think her book would be interesting to read as a Christian as a commentary. I certainly don't really condemn her for doing this or writing the book. What I hope is that she was fair to these people whom she deceived.
It's not about religion - ppl don't like a betrayer in the group whose only reason to be there is to secretly gather info to write a book. She's not writing the book about herself but about the ppl she spied on and their beliefs. Anyway, it is a book I certainly won't bother reading, even if I could myself as on the atheist side.
Amazing, an athiest who lied to trusting people, wow, who'd of thunk it.
If you decide to stop doing deceitful things, the church will still be there, and you can become a real member, you just have to try and follow a few (10) rules to belong.
@bettySwollox There are a whole load of these laws, including my personal fav about faggots! These laws are more constitutional than Godly, remember the People had rejected God's law, so were then to be ruled by the Laws of Man instead!
Proof of their rejection was again seen some 1500years later when the people asked that Christ be put to death, for reminding the people of God's Laws, His only crime!
@kryckeestrooff In all of historical records, there is no Jesus. He never existed. Persecuting a group for crucifying a deity is very wrong, when it never happened. In fact, archeologists and anthropologists found out that slaves did not build the pyramids, it was workers who were compensated very well for it. They had housing and retirement settlements. The bible is one of the greatest fairy tales ever told. Besides, The Chinese have 3,000 years up on the bible and more accurate writing.
@truvelocity Wrong Wrong Wrong! The Romans kept documentation of all affairs of state and the person of Jesus of Nazareth is named in this documention! Besides I ain't persecuting anyone Jew or otherwise! But if you want to talk about events that never occurred, then we should look at the Holocaust because according to the authorties of the day in Germany it never happened plain and simple! Look at every early story in the Bible and how Jews paint themselves as poor enslaved innocents!
It's obvious the GBS990 has never read the Bible in its entirety; preferring instead to merely cherry-pick the nice and fluffy bits that suit a particular mindset. I think it's disgusting how the people who believe that the 10 commandments is a moral code which society should live by, yet they've never even read the rest of the instructions found in the other books, which give context to the book of Exodus, in which they first appear.
@GBS990 What's a moral compass? I only know I had parents who loved me, raised secular, no belief in anything other than reality. My understanding of a psychopath and or a serial killer and someone who is a hero is the ability to feel empathy. Plenty of god believers have tortured and murdered people and plenty of atheists have not. So, what is your moral compass? Does it come from you or a book of rules?
@truvelocity A book of rules? Like, the rules for driving on the right side of the road? I guess it is fun to drive on the left and have everyone else dodge out of the way, but, is it something that should be done? Moral compass, where do you go when a moral question comes up? The book of rules actually is the foundation of our countrys laws.
"The book of rules actually is the foundation of our countrys laws."
Were you home schooled by any chance? What on earth makes you think that? Have you never heard of the US Constitution? THIS is the foundation and source of legal authority in your country, not the 10 commandments. Were this not the case, then you'd have governmental buildings: courts etc., with 10 commandment plaques all over your country. However, this is not the case as we know such acts to be unconstitutional.
So in your mind, which of the 10 commandments serve as the basis of US law? Let's take a look at the first three:
- You shall have no other gods before me
- You shall not make for yourself an idol
- You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Which one of these is illegal? In fact, looking at one and three, what happened to the freedom of religion and the freedom of speech? Somewhat unconstitutional of God to command such things isn't it?
You are comparing God to the selfserving acts of men who wish to control others!
These laws were passed down to those Hebrews who CHOSE to accept Him as their God. It is a contract, and these are his terms for that contract, it's like he was saying "if you don't accept them then don't call upon me as your God!" Even man made contacts today, have terms that you cannot choose to ignor should you enter into it. Is this so hard to understand?
Where have I drawn a comparison to God and self-serving acts of men? As for the 10 Cs, in their recognisable form, you're right, they were passed down from Hebrew to Hebrew. Where have I said otherwise? Cs 6,7, & 8 are simply good practices that were observed majorities throughout many civilisations, before the Jews put them on to paper/tablets. Do you think that before the promulgation of the Law at Mount Sinai everyone was just running around killing each other?
@bettySwollox This is where you have made the comparison; "Somewhat unconstitutional of God to command such things isn't it? " Only Man makes things constitutional and commands that this be obeyed! God made a covenant (pact) with the Jews not a constitution!
As for people running around killing each other just look into history, this is exactly what they were doing. And yes I know it's still happening today and the worst offenders are still Constitutional Governments!
Which laws prevent you from working on a Sunday, or, force you to "honour" (whatever that means?) your parents?
6 & 7:
- You shall not murder
- You shall not commit adultery
- You shall not steal
These are the same basic precepts found in the Golden Rule, which is an ethical code the world over. Are the 10 Cs the basis for Chinese law, merely because murder and theft are forbidden in China?
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour
Lying is punishable, though it depends on what effect the lie had on someone else's life: certain forms of libel and slander, or, a legal process such as perjury.
- You shall not covet your neighbour's wife
- You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour
Is there a law to prevent you from coveting your neighbour's wife? I can't imagine there is. As for 'coveting' in general; your country is built on...
... the principle that everyone wants that which belongs to another. Your economy depends on it, marketing principles depend on it, the banking industry depends on it. Coveting isn't stealing, it's merely an earnest desire to have what someone else may have.
Conclusion
(just noticed I can't count haha properly) The first 5 we can ignore. 6, 7 (7 incidentally is not illegal in all states) & 8 already exist in the Golden Rule. 9 in certain context is punishable & 10 see above...
So never in your life have you ever seen a nice car drive by, or walked past a house, or seen someone wearing nice clothes or jewellery and thought "That's really nice, I'd like one of those too!"? Not even when you were a kid and saw other kids playing with their toys? Never? So how do you define NEVER?
@bettySwollox My statement is true! I have never coveted that which is someone elses! I may have desired something that I have seen, but not that which belongs to another. Even as a kid I know it belongs to someone else and is therefore pointless to covet it. That is unless you feel it's ok to give in to temptation and steal that which belongs to another, so do you? Have you? 8D
@kryckeestrooff The word 'covet' (used synonymously with 'envy') means to desire something that belongs to another. You cannot assume that envy automatically leads to theft, otherwise why would 2 commandments be dedicated to what would essentially be the same sin?
Furthermore, can you honestly say that you've never felt envy? If a friend or coworker of yours was about to take a vacation to a place that you've always wanted to go, you wouldn't say "Man, I wish I could go"?
You said "why would 2 commandments be dedicated to what would essentially be the same sin?". Although I completely agree with you, I gotta say that it didn't stop the first three Cs from being effectively the same bloody thing did it? I mean Cs 1, 2 and 3 basically state "You will not worship anything other than me", so if consistency was the writers' main issue, then if 'coveting' also meant theft (which it doesn't) then they SHOULD have included it in the list for repetition sake.
Well of course, inconsistency is one of the Bible's best and most recognizable attributes.
For those who will question and attack me for that statement, read any mention to murder in the Bible and notice how many times the most obvious and important commandment (Thou shalt not kill) is BROKEN, and many times JUSTIFIED in the name of God.
rivas832 is right, to covet X isn't synonymous with wanting to take or steal X from another person. Covet simply means to desire something earnestly. There is no way in the world that you could ever have made it this far in your life, without having once coveted something, be it a physical object, like a bike or a computer game, or even a conceptual idea, like world peace or going to Heaven.
@bettySwollox I stand by what I said! You are now trying to take the word out of context! As used in the context of the 10C I have not coveted! I never mean't I have never desired something, just not that which is not mine! Is this so hard to understand?
"I never mean't I have never desired something, just not that which is not mine! Is this so hard to understand?"
Yes, it is hard to understand. But that's because it doesn't make any sense, because you are talking absolute and utter pish! Effectively you're trying to tell me that you've never had the true, earnest desire to:
- win a race, a competition, an award
- receive good grades, a certificate of (higher) education
@bettySwollox I'm sorry to have to say this but, Your stupid! If you do not understand the context of the 10 commandments then why are you commenting on them?
What has winning a race or competition, getting good grades or certificates got to do with the coveting commandments? Answer:Nothing!!!!!
The way you seem to understand "covert" a person only has to eat and they are coverting and is breaking those commandments, this is just plain stupidity!
..so what does this tell us? It tells us that at best, you have a total of three maybe four concepts, at a stretch, that could serve as the basis for some of your laws in your country. It tells us the the 10 Cs should actually be called the 3 Cs. Either way, they are not divinely inspired, heavenly mandated, God given laws. They are Man's laws; secular and universal in nature. Traceable throughout the history of our species. So why is it that you think otherwise?
@GBS990 You are talking about 3 dimensional space versus emotions. Emotions and logic don't wash. So, comparing a driving booklet for the DMV and psychology are two completely different things. Our country was based on secular ideals, which means freedom of religion separate from church and state, meaning a Muslim who is an American is just as much a citizen as an atheist.
You keep asking me about rules for a moral compass, when that moral compass is stretched at your convenience.
@truvelocity I am glad your parents gave you love and good sense. But what happens when a moral dilemma comes up? I can justify almost anything if I believe that my good sense will tell me the answer. Some of the greatest evil this planet has known was perpetrated by people who asked themselves what was right.
@truvelocity That book of rules, and specifically the 10 rules, tend to make the people who do the most evil stand out the most, as you have cited. My question is, why do you think they were bad, and what are you using for a reference point? Sorry for the three parts, but a 500 word limit is not very much.
@GBS990 I never thought about those who do the most evil standing out the most, as its acceptable to kill during war time to protect one's freedoms as a necessary evil.
I don't find the 10 commandments bad, I find the belief in sharing the commandments will have an impact on cultures that have been doing fine without them for eons of time
I am not using anything for a reference point. I feel that I am loved and I am powerful, loving and powerful, and love and am powerful. Humbly and simply.
"It really isn't that hard to follow a few rules."
I know, it really isn't that hard to answer a few simple questions either. So why have you failed to respond to them? If you're under the impression that your above statement is an answer, then I'm sorry to tell you, but it's a pathetic attempt at best.
Before I answer your question, I'd first like you to answer the one I put to you earlier, as I asked you which or how many of the 10 rules do you apply to your life on a daily basis?
@GBS990 It is possible for a person to be morally altruistic on their own, without being threatened (eternal damnation) to follow a specific set of rules. Furthermore, the act of making moral decisions based on ones own judgement and awareness of the difference between right and wrong is more altruistic than making moral decisions to receive an award in an afterlife.
@bettySwollox - Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread!!
How many of the "10 rules" do you apply to your life on a daily basis? There's no way you could possibly abide by all of them. Nor would you want to, as half of them are nonsense.
@GBS990 Have you observed these "10 rules" and carried them out in the way God intended? I doubt it! God's covenant: 'Rule 1' "You shall have no other gods before me" God's instruction Deut. 21: 2-7 If you witness another person breaking this covenant, then you must kill them Deut. 13:13-17 If you witness an entire town breaking this covenant, then you must kill everyone and burn the town to the ground Have you acted upon God's instruction as he intended you to? Again, I doubt it!
@bettySwollox Evangelical Christians have an answer to your quotes form Lev and Deut. They say Jesus died on the cross to wash away all of your sins, so therefore, those commandments no longer apply. They just simply "made it up" even though it doesn't say that anywhere in any bible, old or new. Oh, the irony.
8 And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
9 And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst.
10 And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee?
11 And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more.
You really understimate people don't you? :-D You think the believer don't know about Matt 5:18.
So, in your judgement, Jesus should help to stone that adulterous woman? (John 8) Or, perhaps, you think that Jesus was contradictory?
Think about another possibility then: What Jesus meant as "the law" in Matt 5:18 wasn't the whole Old Testament, not even the Torah (the first five books of the Bible).
I love it when I am able to shut people up! I sent you at least 12 comments detailing why you were wrong, and you didn't have one come-back. NOT ONE! I take it that you've probably gone back to the feigning of a buried head in a certain little black (B)asic (I)nstructions (B)efore (L)eaving (E)arth manual; which you not doubt carry around with you merely to keep up with appearances. Sad, just plain sad!
I don't understand that and never will. Why would you need the religion and why should you be "ashamed" for not believing. I think that is the biggest blessing. In my experience, most atheist are really open to all the religions. From curiosity mostly. I've read most of the religious books, from different religions. I'm a non believer, but I expended my knowledge. Believers are mostly incapable of doing so.
While interesting, I don't think this video actually conveys an idea like other fora videos. Please don't post 'videos without solid ideas being conveyed. You become CNN or FOX News otherwise.
"Infiltrates". Silly. I've never been to a church or spoken to a Christian who wasn't open about their beliefs regardless of the other person's religious persuasion (including atheism).
Might someone be more careful with their wording around a non-believer? I suppose. I would be, but only because I'd be mindful that, given their different experience and base of knowledge, they may misinterpret or misunderstand certain statements without context.
There are plenty of examples of people going under-cover and doing research, I want to do it myself one-day! I don't think it's unethical per se, but it absolutely must be openly reconciled with the participants Before publication and so that individuals, as far as possible, cannot be recognised! In fact, it could argued, that having a book published about their very public but unbeknown lives is quite empowering and more valid than simple articles or statistics which show only half a picture.
This is a false mea culpa. Whatever ethical dilemmas she claims to have had, they obviously weren't real enough to prevent her from sticking to the confidentiality agreement and publishing her book. She should admit that the book is more important to her than the trust of the people portrayed in it. I'm not saying she shouldn't have done it. If they were in Falwell's church, they're probably not that great of people, and it's important to expose religion. But she should at leave be honest.
She's beautiful.
ralax3 1 month ago
i pray for all you unbeleivers that you will one day find the lord and repent before it is to late, even darwin said ithe idea the eye could evolve is absurd
1crommy 9 months ago
@1crommy You are lieing ab out Darwin. He even pointed out how the eye evolved.
MasterAdam100 8 months ago
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spl0uf 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@1crommy
now read the rest of that Darwin quote for us.
Lying for Jesus is still lying!
spl0uf 4 months ago
HEY! Can you commie progressives hear that whirling sound? That is the sound of dem union slush funds going down the toilet ....bye bye ENDGAME!
WALKER FOR PRESIDENT 2012
HangProgressives 11 months ago
I am Christian so that makes me dumb. cool....
VenomProductions1 11 months ago
@VenomProductions1 well yes , open your eyes my man!
ignacio1200 11 months ago
Faith is a none statement. Belief wihout question makes no sence. Faith does not equal peace, getting off one's bottom and doing something is what it takes , not faith.
benaberry 11 months ago
Whats the worst thing Gina was not that you are an atheist but the fact you lied. If in the first place they knew you were one, that would have made a difference. Of course, the result of your deceit would be anger. That is natural and right for that matter. I hope though that those times you were there, it will affect your life in a more positive manner.
MidwayJournal 11 months ago
@MidwayJournal,
The Bible says David was righteous in all things except those concerning Bathsheba and Uriah the Hittite.
In 1 Samuel 21, David lies about being on the king's business and about being insane(verses 2-8 and verses 12-13). The argument that David wasn't lying because he was to become King of Israel is bunk because lying is the act of making a statement that is intended to convey an idea that is false.
Hence, the Bible clearly sanctions lying and even commands it!
MegaAstrodude 7 months ago
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ornivb 7 months ago
Religon is holding back humanity. Religon is not useful, Religon causes more problems than good. Religon corrupts all, no peace with religon.
benaberry 1 year ago
@benaberry Because the only road to peace is faith, not religion. Religions are series of beliefs that are not going anywhere at all!
MidwayJournal 11 months ago
wow...really...a desperate attempt
zuifakbersly 1 year ago
Too bad there is no Biblical God.
supersmash43 1 year ago
Through the lies to make money with!!
landenhar 1 year ago
Why have any moral reservations at all, you stupid bitch? According to your own beliefs, you're nothing more than an emotive animal whose life has no ultimate purpose or meaning. All of your values come from a culture who has developed and been nurtured by the values of christianity. You're too fucking stupid to realize that. You babble on for 4 and a half minutes whining about ethics when the real truth is -- the people you duped are better people than you, and you know it.
MazeleyFanClub 1 year ago
@MazeleyFanClub yes, becuse people who endorsed slavery, nazism, and sexism in the past, not to mention homophobes in the present, are SO much better than people who are good for the sake of being good.
Extra365 1 year ago
@Extra365 Atheists are usually pricks. You are one. This woman is too. There's nothing good about you, you're a closed-minded, arrogant fuck who would be better off killing yourself. Seriously, you think life has no meaning, so why not end yours?
MazeleyFanClub 1 year ago
@MazeleyFanClub successful troll is successful.
by that logic, if one black guy is a prick, that means all black people are evil sons o bitches.
btw your god is a loser who kills egyptian babies, tortures anyone who doesnt agree with him, allows nimal sacrifice, and loves to ersecute people. also, jesus is a hipster gaywad.
Extra365 1 year ago
@Extra365 And thus you show yourself to be a worthless, arrogant prick with no redeeming qualities. Thanks for proving my point yet again.
MazeleyFanClub 1 year ago
@MazeleyFanClub look whos talking, chump.
Extra365 1 year ago
@MazeleyFanClub I hate to demoralize you but please, do not drag Christianity to what you are doing. Babling curse words are never an indication of Christian faith. You are just showing to them that you are like them. Please, clean your words.
MidwayJournal 11 months ago
I know of an ex-atheist who, after a two hour conversation regarding God, said, outright, "I hate the concept of God because if there is a God, He must allow young girls to get raped, and innocent people to be butchered to death. I'm not going to follow a God like that!" I always say that most atheists believe that they don't need to believe in some fairy tale God to be good. One day, they will have great difficulty explaining how their goodness can get them into heaven (Titus 3:4-5)
asimpleinstrument 1 year ago
@asimpleinstrument
I think you may have misunderstood the nature and intent of my comment. I was speaking in terms of hypothesis...I don't disagree with you at all, actually . With my admittedly heavy-handed comment, I was paraphrasing Paul. But thank you for your insight nonetheless.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
There are three models of Government competing for world domination:
(1) Communist / atheist: where government officials decide and dole out your temporal rights if any
(2) Sharia Law: where the Qu'ron governs
(3) Judeo-Christian model, where God grants our rights & liberties and THEREFORE they are unalienable, power resides in we the people, we are sovereign and the government is our servant.
Mr88playmaker 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
i jus wanna know who wrote the bible then? did one man write the bible? did a group of dudes come together and say to themselves...lets write a fucking epic, right now! i wanna know...
syrensounds 1 year ago
You see, Atheist can have morals without religion.
pannysat 1 year ago
A hitman for the mafia called the iceman was a loving father, a faithful and wonderful husband, a kind and compassion man to his kids, and a good provider. He also violently killed people for money. As a Christian pastor, I've never argued that only those who believe in God have morals. You have received information from Christians who are ignorant of the Scriptures. Proof: learn about the Pharisees in the Bible. Although they lived by strict morals, their hearts were filled with immorality.
asimpleinstrument 1 year ago
what about budda??? or ala?? who cares what is you idea of the right way, you dont know whats real in my life or I know whats real in your life
pitbullboy100 1 year ago
You where doing a job, and got personally involved in what you should have kept at a distance.
givingmantoo 1 year ago
Okay, when someone writes a book, they are obviously not going to include real names in them without those peoples' consents, so this book is simply a perspective of the Christian world seen though a perspective that is certainly not seen before. And by the way, atheists are awesome.
frankystein12 1 year ago
First realize your a sinner...Believe in your heart God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, confess him as Lord, ask him to forgive your sins (repent of them), wash you in his blood, and make you his child. Read and obey the Gospel, it has the power to save your soul.
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
@HedeenJeff ....... I hate you
deadmen117 1 year ago
@deadmen117 God Bless you
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
@HedeenJeff I know the dogma. You have to be flawed in order to be fixed. The "your a sinner" routine. Then, you convince others that they can't make decisions unless its through Jesus, otherwise, they are prone to sin because of original sin, which took place with a man and woman made out of dust and a rib with a talking snake....
Riiiiiiiiight.....!!!
truvelocity 1 year ago
@truvelocity Right, I cant make all my own decisions. Im a slave of Jesus Christ, I was disobediant to his spirit more than once and Iwash punished for it. I think hes been taking it real easy on me, I hope. I prayed for it a while back, Im new at this. Faith is more than just belief, its also trust and obediance.
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
@HedeenJeff I am sorry I offended you, but in my point of view, I can't follow something or any organized religion. I just can't. It is beyond me how anyone can believe in everlasting lake of fire if you don't do things a certain way to deserve everlasting life. To me, this is pure mythology. Superstition. Pretend. Yes, it is a harsh point of view, but I can't believe in something no matter how comforting or reassuring it can feel. I just think organized religions are delusional.
truvelocity 1 year ago 7
@truvelocity Just believe and have Faith, its your only hope.
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
@truvelocity Its because Christianity is not meant to be a religion but a way of life. Its not that people are thrown to the "lake of fire" because they failed to do certain this and thats BUT because EVERY SINGLE ONE, including pastors, popes, priests, saints themselves, MUST be thrown there. What makes the difference is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ which offers to us a way out of the road to hell we are walking in. We do NOT deserve that but it is freely given.
MidwayJournal 11 months ago
@MidwayJournal Christianity has become a way of life just as Judaism has and many other beliefs are a way of life. Its called culture or sub-cultures within a society when many ways of life are lived from different religions under one nation. However, I stand by what I said in the first place, because the assertion or interpretation of a scripture is not based on reality. Its is a story and that's it.
truvelocity 11 months ago
Wow. Everybody has such strong opinions about God and Morality and on and on. Everybody's so logical. Everybody's so pious. Everyone is so articulate to the point of prolixity. If I want to pray, may I do so without being lambasted for my intellectual shortcomings? If I wish not to pray, may I do so without being bombarded with scripture after scripture chronicling my sure-to-be fiery end? There is no persuasion. Believe...or don't, just shut the fuck up.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago 11
@BrutusBlackest Oh... I love your comment.
truvelocity 1 year ago
I'm sad that you've heard about or have experienced the bombardment of Scripture with the intent to convert you to Christianity. There's no example of this bombardment in the Scriptures. However, "Arminian" churches believe that non-believers can be converted through reasoning, thus, the bombardment. But, the Bible indicates that conversion is up to God thru a simple presentation of the Gospel. If you believe, God made it possible. If you don't, you made your choice to remain as you were.
asimpleinstrument 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest "There is no persuasion."
Wow, your right, you've persuaded me. And its a good thing you didnt "shut the fuck up" about what you believe, otherwise you wouldnt have persuaded me.
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
In what way have you been "persuaded"...?
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest You have missed my point.
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
Not at all. I knew exactly what you were trying to say, but I'm almost certain you missed mine with your trite remark.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest No, I'm pretty sure you missed my point. Which is a shame really, as I hoped you would at least understand it. But I could be wrong, maybe you do understand it but just dont want to acknowledge it. So tell me then, what was my point?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
That in order for me to believe and follow my own advice, I shouldn't have said anything at all. No?
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest Well Done, your halfway there. But let me help you along a bit. I was pointing out the contradiction in someone who believes he can persuade people that "there is no persuasion". And you DO believe that there IS persuasion, otherwise ( and you drew this conclusion yourself) you would have "just shut the fuck up".But you didnt shut up, so either you have a contradiction in your beliefs or you are a hypocrite. So which one is it?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
I see...As I said you, like most of the people who read that comment, took it totally out of context. That's cool though, that's the beauty of learning. Anyway, when I said, "there is no persuasion" I was speaking strictly in terms of religious beliefs. Further, I wasn't really using my own words, shame on me. As I said to someone else, I was paraphrasing a thought of St. Paul. Me (or anyone for that matter) shutting up only had relevance then to religious persuasion, to (con't)
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest Ok, so let me get this clear, your changing your statement and saying that you actually do believe in persuasion, right?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
There must be some sort of miscommunication...I'll be glad to continue this with you privately if you care to...?
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest But first make this clear - Your changing your statement and saying that you actually do believe in persuasion right?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
I haven't changed my position on anything...please, if you have something useful to posit, by all means man...otherwise, for whateve reason, you seem eager to catch me in some fictional paradox you've concocted in your head, or make me sway in my position. To even suppose that there is no persuasion at all is preposterous. As I said, in terms of this thing though, I AGREE (read AND comprehend) with St. Paul. Each man is given a measure of faith...What you believe about (con't)
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
God, yea or nay, is your business and your prerogative and will be that way regardless of what I or anyone else says.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest You seem incapable of giving a straight answer to the question, so i'll say it again one more time, Does persuasion exist? Yes or No? There is no inbetween.
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
Wow. Of course persuasion exists as a possibility in most contexts. Why is there no in between though? ( Let me prepare myself for your "Aha!" moment...After this, I think I'll have to take a raincheck on a private continuance)
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest Once again, you have not given me a straight answer. A straight answer to the question "Does X exist?" is either yes or no, and this is because, (to answer your question), something either exists or doesnt exist. This is known as the law of non-contradiction in logic - something cannot be both A and not-A (Exist and not-Exist). You have continually phrased your statements to mean both. Unfortunately I'm beginning to suspect that you are doing this to avoid both admitting your+
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest ...original statement was wrong and that it cant possibly be right as it contradicts your actions.
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
Sigh...does human life exist? ( Please humor me for a moment)
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest Yes
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest Now humor me. Does persuasion exist?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
Yes. ( please continue to overlook my naivete) Does human life exist on Mars, sans artiicial equipment?
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest I dont know.
Is there not a contradiction in you saying both that there is persuasion and that there is no persuasion?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
Seriously? That's cool, let me be the first to tell you then that no, there is no human life on mars w/o the aid of artificial equipment...So from this we can determine that (A) Humans exist somewhere, however (B) They do not exist everywhere. You're a fool and a charlatan. Good day.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest You forgot to answer my question.
Maybe its because you went off topic by talking about mars. I've only ever been talking about a blatant contradiction i've observed in your statement above, which you seem unable to admit.
Is there not a contradiction in you saying both that there is persuasion and that there is no persuasion?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
When taken out of context, as you seem so intent on doing. Sarcasm is best used sparingly and by those with proper experience. As you've totally ignored my analogy, let me re-state it, (A) Humans exist, however (B) Humans do not exist everywhere. So in one state (A) is true, in another (B) is true, but does not negate (A) it's simple Boolean Logic. You are tangled in semantics. Perhaps if I'd provided proper footnotes and attribution initially...Ah, well, such is life.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest Your right, (B) follows from (A).
Is there not a contradiction in saying both that there is persuasion and that there is not persuasion?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
No there is isn't.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest "No there is isn't"
This statement denies the law of non-contradiction, one of the axioms of logic. If you deny the law of non-contradiction, you are being illogical. Therefore your statement is proof that you are being illogical.
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
And you are being a incorrigible. I've just shown you how two different states of being can both be true, w/o negating the other, yet you refuse to accept this. If you like to debate for the sake of debate, that fine, but you've already lost this one.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest Your right, I have lost this argument. I have failed to persuade you to understand the contradictions in your statement. This is because I made the assumption that you would understand logic .This is the difference between us, I can accept when someone else makes a point, admit I am wrong and thus stay reasonable. You refuse to accept any point whatsoever, regardless of its logic, just so you can continue to pretend you are right. You are the definition of ignorance.
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
I really must apologize for my earlier remarks, but you really seem to be just f*ing with me, because as you said of me, you don't seem mentally challenged. I don't know. I do understand your argument though, and how you believe it to be true and relevant, really. You've just misapplied it.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest You know, I'm still genuinely stunned at how you choose to answer the question. I think that you do understand the consequences of saying such a nonsensical statement, because you don't seem like a retard, but you just couldnt answer the question, could you? And that's not meant as an insult, I'm saying that you are not a retard. I think we would both agree that a person who says nonsensical things and sincerely believes them is probably retarded, or is at least delusional.
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle But to continue my thought, If you didn't sincerely believe what you stated, doesnt that make you what you inaccurately insulted me as earlier, namely a charlatan?
paddyodoyle 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
I BELIEVE I did. Nowhere in my comment did I attempt to sway anyone's personal religious or otherwise theological beliefs...did I? Or, to be quite elementary, I was simply asking for a cease-fire on the religious debate.
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@paddyodoyle
( actually there is s'posed to be a 'which' before the 'I BELIEVE I did' bit.
[Oh, and my comment was neither contradictory, nor am I a hypocrite, thanks for asking)
Besides, why's what I believe got you so interested?
BrutusBlackest 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest i think you just singlehandedly pwned both sides of the argument.
Extra365 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest : Amen to that (he said jokingly)! Arguments are fruitless. The whole idea of god is irrelevant in my view so let the believers believe and non-believers carry on with their lives.
auggiedoggy 1 year ago
@BrutusBlackest I refuse, religion is evil, illogical, and must stop. I don't persecute people nor would I ever resort to violence but it has got to stop.
timmyjunior1 9 months ago
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@BrutusBlackest,
"Everybody has such strong opinions about God and Morality and on and on. "
Really? I have strong opinions about some moral issues and about logical truth, but not on God. The existence or non-existence of God really doesn't change much. Either way, my life is basically the same.
MegaAstrodude 7 months ago
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Recognize that your a sinner...Believe in your heart God raised Jesus Christ form the dead, confess him as Lord, ask him to wash you in his blood and make you his child, read and obey the Gospel, it has the power to save your soul.
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
I lied, I lied, I lied. And I found out they were Christians! And they actually treated me well after I told them that I lied. But that won't sway me from my present path. Please buy my book on bashing Christianity. It is so hard to get to know a Christian, you know those churches won't accept just anybody, especially on Sundays.
GBS990 1 year ago
@GBS990 Oh please... Her book is non biased, loving and compassionate. Nothing in there to bash Christians whatsoever. Have you even bothered to read it?
truvelocity 1 year ago
@truvelocity Why is it the 'compasionate ones' are the ones that most easily justify lying? She states twice she lied to people (who did not lie to her) and then states her publisher made her lie, all for the greater good of course, When do we figure out moral compasses don't work very well when fed a steady diet of whatever feels good?
GBS990 1 year ago
@GBS990 Leaders of religious movements lie for their political agenda, that isn't seen by you as breaching their moral compass in order to feed their followers a steady diet of whatever feels good?
The book was more important to bridge the gap of secular people in order to understand how the church works with understanding.
I think you need to look at it with an air of sophistication instead of dragging Jesus into it.
truvelocity 1 year ago
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GBS990 1 year ago
wow this chick is completely uninteresting. the title of this video sounded so promising. what a boring twat.
phead80 1 year ago
@phead80 I agree completely, I came here hoping to see a good vid and got junk! Just aswell there are some good comments to gleen and pick at! lol
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
This girl speaks really strangely. Like she is gasping or about to faint or something. Very strange intonation and affect. Just weird.
chinacat22 1 year ago
Wasn't there a case a few years back of a woman who lied about her age so she could attend high school again?
Didn't seem right in that case either.
ivlfounder 1 year ago
I think this kind of investigative "deceit" is perfectly ethical. It's called spying. For nonbelievers, this might even be considered a necessity since we often forget what it was like to be a believer, or perhaps we haven't been to church for years, so we don't know what the current movements in that culture are. Having an insider go under cover helps us understand how people can follow Sarah Palin in droves. I look forward to reading the book.
v2keener 1 year ago
@guzmancho lol, that's the way to go
BlueNile123 1 year ago
It's amazing that journalists get away with doing so many things that social scientists could never do because of the IRB. Then again, there's a world of difference between "reporting" and doing research.
arcanist9 1 year ago
shes the best looking athiest ive seen
blooddriven88 1 year ago
@blooddriven88 You don't know too many atheists, do you?
rivas832 1 year ago
@rivas832 i stay away from them
blooddriven88 1 year ago
Gina should question herself, "Where did my guilt, the 'toxic' feeling come from?" If there is no God, and if there are no absolutes, then why should she feel guilty about deceiving a group of people so extensively about who she was?
I think her book would be interesting to read as a Christian as a commentary. I certainly don't really condemn her for doing this or writing the book. What I hope is that she was fair to these people whom she deceived.
burgerkhan 1 year ago
Lol Atheists !
hobo59 1 year ago
just spit it out....
mrmaciejm 1 year ago
can I marry her? Is that an option?
MatthewJohn00003 1 year ago
@MatthewJohn00003
Yes, it's an option, but I doubt she'll be having a church service any time soon.
bettySwollox 1 year ago
It's not about religion - ppl don't like a betrayer in the group whose only reason to be there is to secretly gather info to write a book. She's not writing the book about herself but about the ppl she spied on and their beliefs. Anyway, it is a book I certainly won't bother reading, even if I could myself as on the atheist side.
portantwas 1 year ago
People do whatever they can to make their point... I am glad she recognized that she just deliberately used then...
fsrafols 1 year ago
Amazing, an athiest who lied to trusting people, wow, who'd of thunk it.
If you decide to stop doing deceitful things, the church will still be there, and you can become a real member, you just have to try and follow a few (10) rules to belong.
GBS990 1 year ago
@GBS990 Hey which one of those rules prohibits slavery? Is there one against beating children?
wildnine00 1 year ago
@wildnine00
"Is there one against beating children?"
On the contrary, the "rules" about beating children aren't so much against this act but rather...:
Exodus
{21:15} And he that smiteth his father, or his mother,
shall be surely put to death.
{21:17} And he that curseth his father, or his mother,
shall surely be put to death.
Deut.
{21:18} if....a rebellious son, does not obey his parents,.. all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die:
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox There are a whole load of these laws, including my personal fav about faggots! These laws are more constitutional than Godly, remember the People had rejected God's law, so were then to be ruled by the Laws of Man instead!
Proof of their rejection was again seen some 1500years later when the people asked that Christ be put to death, for reminding the people of God's Laws, His only crime!
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@kryckeestrooff In all of historical records, there is no Jesus. He never existed. Persecuting a group for crucifying a deity is very wrong, when it never happened. In fact, archeologists and anthropologists found out that slaves did not build the pyramids, it was workers who were compensated very well for it. They had housing and retirement settlements. The bible is one of the greatest fairy tales ever told. Besides, The Chinese have 3,000 years up on the bible and more accurate writing.
truvelocity 1 year ago
@truvelocity Wrong Wrong Wrong! The Romans kept documentation of all affairs of state and the person of Jesus of Nazareth is named in this documention! Besides I ain't persecuting anyone Jew or otherwise! But if you want to talk about events that never occurred, then we should look at the Holocaust because according to the authorties of the day in Germany it never happened plain and simple! Look at every early story in the Bible and how Jews paint themselves as poor enslaved innocents!
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@wildnine00
It's obvious the GBS990 has never read the Bible in its entirety; preferring instead to merely cherry-pick the nice and fluffy bits that suit a particular mindset. I think it's disgusting how the people who believe that the 10 commandments is a moral code which society should live by, yet they've never even read the rest of the instructions found in the other books, which give context to the book of Exodus, in which they first appear.
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox It really isn't that hard to follow a few simple rules. BTW What do you use as a moral compass?
GBS990 1 year ago
@GBS990 What's a moral compass? I only know I had parents who loved me, raised secular, no belief in anything other than reality. My understanding of a psychopath and or a serial killer and someone who is a hero is the ability to feel empathy. Plenty of god believers have tortured and murdered people and plenty of atheists have not. So, what is your moral compass? Does it come from you or a book of rules?
truvelocity 1 year ago
@truvelocity A book of rules? Like, the rules for driving on the right side of the road? I guess it is fun to drive on the left and have everyone else dodge out of the way, but, is it something that should be done? Moral compass, where do you go when a moral question comes up? The book of rules actually is the foundation of our countrys laws.
GBS990 1 year ago
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@GBS990
"The book of rules actually is the foundation of our countrys laws."
Were you home schooled by any chance? What on earth makes you think that? Have you never heard of the US Constitution? THIS is the foundation and source of legal authority in your country, not the 10 commandments. Were this not the case, then you'd have governmental buildings: courts etc., with 10 commandment plaques all over your country. However, this is not the case as we know such acts to be unconstitutional.
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990
So in your mind, which of the 10 commandments serve as the basis of US law? Let's take a look at the first three:
- You shall have no other gods before me
- You shall not make for yourself an idol
- You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
Which one of these is illegal? In fact, looking at one and three, what happened to the freedom of religion and the freedom of speech? Somewhat unconstitutional of God to command such things isn't it?
Three down, seven to go!
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox
You are comparing God to the selfserving acts of men who wish to control others!
These laws were passed down to those Hebrews who CHOSE to accept Him as their God. It is a contract, and these are his terms for that contract, it's like he was saying "if you don't accept them then don't call upon me as your God!" Even man made contacts today, have terms that you cannot choose to ignor should you enter into it. Is this so hard to understand?
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@kryckeestrooff
Where have I drawn a comparison to God and self-serving acts of men? As for the 10 Cs, in their recognisable form, you're right, they were passed down from Hebrew to Hebrew. Where have I said otherwise? Cs 6,7, & 8 are simply good practices that were observed majorities throughout many civilisations, before the Jews put them on to paper/tablets. Do you think that before the promulgation of the Law at Mount Sinai everyone was just running around killing each other?
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox This is where you have made the comparison; "Somewhat unconstitutional of God to command such things isn't it? " Only Man makes things constitutional and commands that this be obeyed! God made a covenant (pact) with the Jews not a constitution!
As for people running around killing each other just look into history, this is exactly what they were doing. And yes I know it's still happening today and the worst offenders are still Constitutional Governments!
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@GBS990
Commandments 4 & 5:
- Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
- Honour your father and mother
Which laws prevent you from working on a Sunday, or, force you to "honour" (whatever that means?) your parents?
6 & 7:
- You shall not murder
- You shall not commit adultery
- You shall not steal
These are the same basic precepts found in the Golden Rule, which is an ethical code the world over. Are the 10 Cs the basis for Chinese law, merely because murder and theft are forbidden in China?
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990
8, 9 & 10
- You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour
Lying is punishable, though it depends on what effect the lie had on someone else's life: certain forms of libel and slander, or, a legal process such as perjury.
- You shall not covet your neighbour's wife
- You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour
Is there a law to prevent you from coveting your neighbour's wife? I can't imagine there is. As for 'coveting' in general; your country is built on...
bettySwollox 1 year ago 3
@GBS990
(cont.)
... the principle that everyone wants that which belongs to another. Your economy depends on it, marketing principles depend on it, the banking industry depends on it. Coveting isn't stealing, it's merely an earnest desire to have what someone else may have.
Conclusion
(just noticed I can't count haha properly) The first 5 we can ignore. 6, 7 (7 incidentally is not illegal in all states) & 8 already exist in the Golden Rule. 9 in certain context is punishable & 10 see above...
bettySwollox 1 year ago 3
@bettySwollox I have never wanted that which is someone elses, so how do you define EVERYONE?
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@kryckeestrooff
So never in your life have you ever seen a nice car drive by, or walked past a house, or seen someone wearing nice clothes or jewellery and thought "That's really nice, I'd like one of those too!"? Not even when you were a kid and saw other kids playing with their toys? Never? So how do you define NEVER?
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox My statement is true! I have never coveted that which is someone elses! I may have desired something that I have seen, but not that which belongs to another. Even as a kid I know it belongs to someone else and is therefore pointless to covet it. That is unless you feel it's ok to give in to temptation and steal that which belongs to another, so do you? Have you? 8D
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@kryckeestrooff The word 'covet' (used synonymously with 'envy') means to desire something that belongs to another. You cannot assume that envy automatically leads to theft, otherwise why would 2 commandments be dedicated to what would essentially be the same sin?
Furthermore, can you honestly say that you've never felt envy? If a friend or coworker of yours was about to take a vacation to a place that you've always wanted to go, you wouldn't say "Man, I wish I could go"?
rivas832 1 year ago
@rivas832
You said "why would 2 commandments be dedicated to what would essentially be the same sin?". Although I completely agree with you, I gotta say that it didn't stop the first three Cs from being effectively the same bloody thing did it? I mean Cs 1, 2 and 3 basically state "You will not worship anything other than me", so if consistency was the writers' main issue, then if 'coveting' also meant theft (which it doesn't) then they SHOULD have included it in the list for repetition sake.
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox
Well of course, inconsistency is one of the Bible's best and most recognizable attributes.
For those who will question and attack me for that statement, read any mention to murder in the Bible and notice how many times the most obvious and important commandment (Thou shalt not kill) is BROKEN, and many times JUSTIFIED in the name of God.
rivas832 1 year ago
@kryckeestrooff
rivas832 is right, to covet X isn't synonymous with wanting to take or steal X from another person. Covet simply means to desire something earnestly. There is no way in the world that you could ever have made it this far in your life, without having once coveted something, be it a physical object, like a bike or a computer game, or even a conceptual idea, like world peace or going to Heaven.
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox I stand by what I said! You are now trying to take the word out of context! As used in the context of the 10C I have not coveted! I never mean't I have never desired something, just not that which is not mine! Is this so hard to understand?
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@kryckeestrooff
"I never mean't I have never desired something, just not that which is not mine! Is this so hard to understand?"
Yes, it is hard to understand. But that's because it doesn't make any sense, because you are talking absolute and utter pish! Effectively you're trying to tell me that you've never had the true, earnest desire to:
- win a race, a competition, an award
- receive good grades, a certificate of (higher) education
- witness the realization of an ideal
Well?
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox I'm sorry to have to say this but, Your stupid! If you do not understand the context of the 10 commandments then why are you commenting on them?
What has winning a race or competition, getting good grades or certificates got to do with the coveting commandments? Answer:Nothing!!!!!
The way you seem to understand "covert" a person only has to eat and they are coverting and is breaking those commandments, this is just plain stupidity!
kryckeestrooff 1 year ago
@GBS990
(Conclusion cont.)
..so what does this tell us? It tells us that at best, you have a total of three maybe four concepts, at a stretch, that could serve as the basis for some of your laws in your country. It tells us the the 10 Cs should actually be called the 3 Cs. Either way, they are not divinely inspired, heavenly mandated, God given laws. They are Man's laws; secular and universal in nature. Traceable throughout the history of our species. So why is it that you think otherwise?
bettySwollox 1 year ago 2
@GBS990 You are talking about 3 dimensional space versus emotions. Emotions and logic don't wash. So, comparing a driving booklet for the DMV and psychology are two completely different things. Our country was based on secular ideals, which means freedom of religion separate from church and state, meaning a Muslim who is an American is just as much a citizen as an atheist.
You keep asking me about rules for a moral compass, when that moral compass is stretched at your convenience.
truvelocity 1 year ago
@truvelocity I am glad your parents gave you love and good sense. But what happens when a moral dilemma comes up? I can justify almost anything if I believe that my good sense will tell me the answer. Some of the greatest evil this planet has known was perpetrated by people who asked themselves what was right.
GBS990 1 year ago
@truvelocity That book of rules, and specifically the 10 rules, tend to make the people who do the most evil stand out the most, as you have cited. My question is, why do you think they were bad, and what are you using for a reference point? Sorry for the three parts, but a 500 word limit is not very much.
GBS990 1 year ago
@GBS990 I never thought about those who do the most evil standing out the most, as its acceptable to kill during war time to protect one's freedoms as a necessary evil.
I don't find the 10 commandments bad, I find the belief in sharing the commandments will have an impact on cultures that have been doing fine without them for eons of time
I am not using anything for a reference point. I feel that I am loved and I am powerful, loving and powerful, and love and am powerful. Humbly and simply.
truvelocity 1 year ago
@GBS990
"It really isn't that hard to follow a few rules."
I know, it really isn't that hard to answer a few simple questions either. So why have you failed to respond to them? If you're under the impression that your above statement is an answer, then I'm sorry to tell you, but it's a pathetic attempt at best.
Before I answer your question, I'd first like you to answer the one I put to you earlier, as I asked you which or how many of the 10 rules do you apply to your life on a daily basis?
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990 It is possible for a person to be morally altruistic on their own, without being threatened (eternal damnation) to follow a specific set of rules. Furthermore, the act of making moral decisions based on ones own judgement and awareness of the difference between right and wrong is more altruistic than making moral decisions to receive an award in an afterlife.
@bettySwollox - Sorry if I'm hijacking your thread!!
rivas832 1 year ago
@GBS990
How many of the "10 rules" do you apply to your life on a daily basis? There's no way you could possibly abide by all of them. Nor would you want to, as half of them are nonsense.
bettySwollox 1 year ago
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox Evangelical Christians have an answer to your quotes form Lev and Deut. They say Jesus died on the cross to wash away all of your sins, so therefore, those commandments no longer apply. They just simply "made it up" even though it doesn't say that anywhere in any bible, old or new. Oh, the irony.
truvelocity 1 year ago
@truvelocity
John 8
4 they say unto him, Teacher, this woman hath been taken in adultery, in the very act.
5 Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such: what then sayest thou of her?
6 And this they said, trying him, that they might have [whereof] to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
7 But when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Edinaldo08 1 year ago
8 And again he stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground.
9 And they, when they heard it, went out one by one, beginning from the eldest, [even] unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the midst.
10 And Jesus lifted up himself, and said unto her, Woman, where are they? did no man condemn thee?
11 And she said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said, Neither do I condemn thee: go thy way; from henceforth sin no more.
Edinaldo08 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Just to start read Galatians and Hebrews since you think "it doesn't say that anywhere in any bible". Oh, the irony.
Edinaldo08 1 year ago
@truvelocity
I know, the trouble is, they also don't realise that Jesus said:
Matt. {5:18}
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
And thatiIn Isaiah {40:8} it is proclaimed that:
"The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our
God shall stand for ever."
Haha, Christians! Who'd of thought that they were the least endowed when it came to Biblical literacy?
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@bettySwollox
You really understimate people don't you? :-D You think the believer don't know about Matt 5:18.
So, in your judgement, Jesus should help to stone that adulterous woman? (John 8) Or, perhaps, you think that Jesus was contradictory?
Think about another possibility then: What Jesus meant as "the law" in Matt 5:18 wasn't the whole Old Testament, not even the Torah (the first five books of the Bible).
Edinaldo08 1 year ago
(cont.)
The words "till all be fulfilled" gives you a hint. He meant the prophetic texts of the Old Testament.
Otherwise, when does a Civil Law of the ancient Israelites get fulfilled? When the first person is stoned? When the first 1000? A million? When?
Edinaldo08 1 year ago
Comment removed
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990
Rule 3
You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
God's instruction
Lev. 24:16
Blasphemers will be stoned to death
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990
Rule 4
Remember the sabbath and keep it holy
God's instruction
Exodus 31:15
Kill everyone who works on Sundays
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990
Rule 5
Honour your Father and Mother
God's instruction
See post to wildnine00 below
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990
Rule 7
You shall not commit adultery
God's instruction
Leviticus 20:10
Kill the adulterers
bettySwollox 1 year ago
@GBS990
I love it when I am able to shut people up! I sent you at least 12 comments detailing why you were wrong, and you didn't have one come-back. NOT ONE! I take it that you've probably gone back to the feigning of a buried head in a certain little black (B)asic (I)nstructions (B)efore (L)eaving (E)arth manual; which you not doubt carry around with you merely to keep up with appearances. Sad, just plain sad!
bettySwollox 1 year ago
I don't understand that and never will. Why would you need the religion and why should you be "ashamed" for not believing. I think that is the biggest blessing. In my experience, most atheist are really open to all the religions. From curiosity mostly. I've read most of the religious books, from different religions. I'm a non believer, but I expended my knowledge. Believers are mostly incapable of doing so.
aandreya 1 year ago
While interesting, I don't think this video actually conveys an idea like other fora videos. Please don't post 'videos without solid ideas being conveyed. You become CNN or FOX News otherwise.
artformeandyou 1 year ago
How disgusting.
IamthePopeRome 1 year ago
"Infiltrates". Silly. I've never been to a church or spoken to a Christian who wasn't open about their beliefs regardless of the other person's religious persuasion (including atheism).
Might someone be more careful with their wording around a non-believer? I suppose. I would be, but only because I'd be mindful that, given their different experience and base of knowledge, they may misinterpret or misunderstand certain statements without context.
Many (MANY) ignorant comments below prove this!
robvh2 1 year ago
There are plenty of examples of people going under-cover and doing research, I want to do it myself one-day! I don't think it's unethical per se, but it absolutely must be openly reconciled with the participants Before publication and so that individuals, as far as possible, cannot be recognised! In fact, it could argued, that having a book published about their very public but unbeknown lives is quite empowering and more valid than simple articles or statistics which show only half a picture.
WillSKB88 1 year ago
This is a false mea culpa. Whatever ethical dilemmas she claims to have had, they obviously weren't real enough to prevent her from sticking to the confidentiality agreement and publishing her book. She should admit that the book is more important to her than the trust of the people portrayed in it. I'm not saying she shouldn't have done it. If they were in Falwell's church, they're probably not that great of people, and it's important to expose religion. But she should at leave be honest.
funkalunatic 1 year ago