Re: We Are Rational to Believe In Jesus

[OptimisticCynic715]

Dude! Absurd stories from mythology are the only proof you need of anything.

@ 5:00 You gotta read the Infancy Gospel of Thomas. Jesus went on a murder spree when he was little. "Let him not forth without the door, for all they die that provoke him to wrath"

@7:00 Always wondered about that. The Red Sea parts for you, but a short time later, worshiping a lil' statue you made just then seems promising. And now, sputtering gibberish is miracle enough for some.

Voted up. Lying con-artists.

[152Ron]

nice video. what i find interesting is that there is no proof at all that any of these people that are in the bible ever exsisted. including "jesus"

Ricahrd Dawkins is the man

[Blackmark52]

Ever notice how all these miracles of the Bible don't really seem so impressive to modern mentalities? The virgin birth has to be a prime example: any virgin who wished to could nowadays, without any trouble whatsoever, give birth.

[HonestDiscussioner]

I may still be impressed with turning water into wine . . as wine is delicious.

But yea, good point.

[HonestDiscussioner]

Votebot? No no of course not. I just had 5 stars for over a month and then 50 people suddenly decided to watch my video and all vote back to back.

I'm sure it was TOTALLY legitamite. As I'm sure all of GEERUP's points were . . .

In case you didn't notice, as its difficult in text, I enjoy sarcasm. :-)

Yea, I've been hit twice by those frickin' thinkgs.

[tomtom0033666]

great video

[HonestDiscussioner]

Thanks. I appreciate you going through my videos and watching them. I'm glad you like them.

[anonymousrache]

You can't point to a Christian to argue against Christianity like you can't point to the bible to convince an atheist.

neither of you made the best arguments for your cause

[HonestDiscussioner]

I'm sorry, at what point did I tell him he needs to argue against Christianity?

[xd1rtx]

"i dont deny burban" hilarious,, your video responses refuting others are where u are your best, keep that going,, good job again

[GEERUP]

empirical proof. the resurrection of the dead Jesus was crucified with eyewitness accounts. Crucified under Roman authority Pontius Pilate this is confirmed from outside sources also three separate authors. And this very same man Jesus who claimed that he was the son of God died was buried and came back to life. The disciples fearful once about being killed themselves now willingly laid their lives down for the truth that he was and is the resurrected Lord and Savior. Empirical powerful truth.

[HonestDiscussioner]

Or not. Beyond that they died and he was crucified, none of the rest of that can be verified. That by itself isn't very convincing, since that happened a lot back then.

This is how you know there were 500 hundred witnesses to his resurrection: the Bible mentions there were 500 witnesses to his resurrection.

As in the video, plenty of people die for their non-christian beliefs all the time, and also swear to see non-christian miricales quite often. That's why eyewitness testimony = bad.

[HonestDiscussioner]

Thanks!

[GEERUP]

Atheists have their God which is science. They have their institutions and their forms of unquestioned authoritarian positioning much like evangelists they state evolution is a fact and there is no God. The Bible is a fairy tale. and they do so with conviction and authority. Biology the holy institution declares gods to be improbable. also we atheists are 99.999999% sure that there is no God. In fact statements like these have become part of the lexicon and logos atheistic mantra.

[bluesting]

The funny thing is, that viturally EVERY Atheist I've seen, from Richard Dawkins to TheAmazingAtheist, is a WEAK Atheist (Agnostic Atheist) on the question of "A GOD", BUT on the question of the "Abriamic God", they are ALL, including myself, STRONG Atheists (Gnostic Atheist). There is just absolutely NO WAY the God of the Bible exists! And NO WAY that ANY God of ANY religious text in human history exists! So, we openly agree that there "may be" a God, just not Yahweh!

[bluesting]

And the reason for this, speaking for myself, is that:

1) There are too many contractictions in both the Old AND New Testament, why? BECAUSE IT WAS WRITTEN BY MAN in the Bronze and Iron Age, and put together largely by the Catholic Church who chose books that they felt complemented their cause!

2) The Bible is filled with Hatred, Violence (Even Jesus when he got angry at the Temple, why didn't he preach instead?), Racism, Murder, Slavery and Bronze Age thinking and traditions etc.

[HonestDiscussioner]

I don't give probabilities to god's existance. Biology, evolution, and science make no comment on god, though I believe they do disprove literal interpretations of Holy Books.

Evolution is a fact.

Everything didn't come from nothing. If an eternal conscious entity can exist outside of spacetime I see no reason an eternal unconscious entity shouldn't be able to exist and then expand to create space time.

I'd call the Bible "philosophical fiction".

Conviction, yes; authority, no.

[mordinvan]

Actually they do state probabilities... If god is infinite as christians suppose, then he is infinitely complex and as a result, infinitely improbable.

[GEERUP]

next point... turning the other cheek as an atheist can you please give me the godless naturalistic explanation of turning the cheek to your rivals? No really I want to see how you weasel around sarcastically explaining this one away. by the way do you consider this comment a slap in the face? And do you consider your video response a virtual slap in my face. And if so how should I turn my cheek?

[HonestDiscussioner]

I'm big guy, weaseling doesn't suit me.

I never claimed that turning the cheek was good, but as a Christian it would seem you should. I can condem Ted Haggard for his gay sex, not because of I disagree with the sex, but because he's a hypocrite.

To answer your question, SOMETIMES it is a good idea to turn the other cheek since often giving retribution will only lead to further reprisals and a viscous cycle.

[HonestDiscussioner]

No, your comments weren't a slap in any form, though Sablechicken's first two were. I think you are, so far, being as respectful as I would expect.

Turning the other cheek would be not levying personal attacks and judgements of character against those that do the same to you, or not responding in kind to something you deem offensive. Tell me how absolutely wrong I am all day and night.

My video was not a slap, but a bit of "pwnage". Some sarcasm for humor, but no name calling.

[mordinvan]

"how should I turn my cheek? "

off the top of my head.... admit 1 starting a video which doesn't not contain faulty content just because "He did it to me first" was childish, and immature.

[GEERUP]

I admit publicly that at times I have been childish and immature. I admit publicly that I am a sinner in need of forgiving. I admit that I am helpless in the pursuit of freeing myself from selfishness without the help of a divine unseen hand. I admit freely that I deserve a separation from his holy presence and plead for his hand of grace through the redemptive gift of Jesus Christ's sacrificial and obedient appeasement for the wrath I deserve. With tears and face down with humble gratitude.

[mordinvan]

"without the help of a divine unseen hand"

Ok. why do you NEED a god?

Ask yourself that one.

IF the bible is correct, and you were created by a god, THEN any faults in you ARE the work of HIS own hands. To ask a finite being to correct the work of a infinite and perfect one doesn't really make sense.

Why would you be grateful for being made faulty and imperfect?

For being condemned to eternal torture unless you partake in, and condone a reprehensible act beyond moral or ethical redemption?

[GEERUP]

judgment day and standing before God we have to give an accounting. all our sin that we commit from our free will choice belongs to us. In our own civil courts standing before the magistrate we can't say God made me do it. And/or your case may be the devil made me do it. You are responsible for your deeds done. You will pay or you will except the payment made in advance through the grace and mercies of God. That's why an infinite God provides a means of redemption avoiding infinite punishment.

[GEERUP]

"Why would you be grateful for being made faulty and imperfect?" humanity is fallen. God is not obligated to save rebellious sinful creatures like ourselves. We have inherited a sinful nature from our natural parents from antiquity. Adam and Eve were spared immediate annihilation and were given a gracious promise of redemption in the future. We who who have ears to hear and hearts to receive recognize our need and we are grateful.

[KemaTheAtheist]

GEERUP, you didn't state a single thing in either of your comments that wasn't a direct assertion that can't be proven.

This is exactly what HD was explaining in his video is completely worthless when talking to someone who doesn't believe a word of it. Stating something without evidence is a waste of time as it is completely unconvincing to any atheist.

Please go get some real evidence and don't come back until you do.

[GEERUP]

"don't come back until you do" who put you in charge of the three ring circus? You'll not believing that the Bible is a historical document reflects on your in ability to process a factual information. Let me explain this to you the Bible is history. 66 books and the Vatican has even more that never went in to the Bible due to this correct adherence to a code of contextual theme. There is an art and science to proper exegesis. The theological universities that scatter the world can be researched

[HonestDiscussioner]

The Muslims say the same thing. You are trying to convince us the Bible is true, so show why it is. We can show you numerous reasons why it did not come from God and the only thing you are worshipping are the beliefs of men from thousands of years ago. The Bible is a flawed creation of man, and there is no one that will judge us, or if there is, he has not let us know, for the Bible was not written by God. Unless of course, you can show otherwisee.

[KemaTheAtheist]

"who put you in charge of the three ring circus?"

I was only pointing out that until you bring real evidence, you're wasting your time. You're better off just going away and not coming back because you're just wasting your time.

To everything else: ROFL.

[GEERUP]

give me an example of the kind of empirical evidence you would except. This should be easy for you. But do remember that God I declare is the one whom transcends time and space. For he is the author of both. Also keep in mind, this God created all matter living and inert. He is the first intelligent cause having dominion over the atom molecule and the designer of such. Also I would like to add when providing your list of empirical evidence. God would by necessity be immaterial. I await the list

[KemaTheAtheist]

"I declare is..."

Here is your first problem...

"one whom transcends time and space"

"God created all matter living and inert."

"He is the first intelligent cause having dominion over the atom molecule and the designer of such."

First you need to define a god that can real.

Here's a few things off the top of my head that your God should be able to do given the power you say he has....

cont...

[KemaTheAtheist]

1.) Appear (in any form he chooses) so that everyone in the world can hold no doubt as to his existence.

2.) Stop all suffering in the world.

3.) End hunger.

4.) Make world peace.

5.) Smite me now and throw me into hell.

And, don't give me some bullshit excuse like "he can do that because it ends free will." Those arguments all fall flat when looked at logically. The God you define is of such power he could do any of those things and more.

The problem is your "God" isn't backed by evidence.

[GEERUP]

1.) Appear. he did Jesus Christ. evidence history biblical and outside sources.

2.) Stop all suffering in the world. He has promised he will do just that for the same Jesus who has been crucified under Pontius Pilate and was raised to life again on the third day has declared that he's coming back and every eye shall see him and every knee shall bend and every one will confess that he is the Lord.

3.) End hunger. this will be fulfilled when he arrives again along with world peace.

[KemaTheAtheist]

"1.) Appear. he did Jesus Christ. evidence history biblical and outside sources."

I mean personally, right now. Anecdotes from 2000 years ago, written 30 years or more after his death is not evidence.

2 & 3.) Then when he comes back, I'll believe.

[GEERUP]

i find it interesting you qualify appearance of God to all as acceptable evidence. why not individually for you and your personal hunger And honest inquiry for the truth? Are you so reliant on others to confirm for you what you should believe? or you realize that if God appear to you privately you to join the ranks of the crazies, the nut cases and the mocked ridiculed despised and possibly ultimately martyred. put yourself in the shoes of a Christian just for a moment can you practice empathy

[KemaTheAtheist]

"you qualify appearance of God to all as acceptable evidence. why not individually...? Are you so reliant on others to confirm for you what you should believe?"

No. It's so that I could rule out that I'm not hallucinating. It is very easy to trick yourself into seeing, hearing, and feeling things that aren't there. Anyone (such as myself) who has done a lot of meditation and self-hypnosis can do that easily.

[KemaTheAtheist]

"put yourself in the shoes of a Christian just for a moment can you practice empathy"

I was a church-going, Confirmed Catholic for 18 years. I've been in and wore those shoes for a long time and they did nothing but trip me up. Since I changed my "shoes" to something that fits: reality.

I don't practice empathy for anyone who's religion condones stoning children, homosexuals, non-believers, and adulterers, slavery, human sacrifice, and genocide.

[GEERUP]

provide for me evidence of Christians today stoning homosexuals, stoning nonbelievers adulterers or practicing human sacrifice. This is so blatantly disingenuous. Were you practicing these things as a churchgoing confirmed Catholic for 18 years. and if so you must be Utubing from a prison cell or a mental institution. You poor thing surely being an insider you must have held you're slaves chained in the basement and how many adulterers did you kill By stoning?run to ATHEISM it's your god now.

[KemaTheAtheist]

"provide for me evidence of Christians today stoning homosexuals, stoning nonbelievers adulterers or practicing human sacrifice. "

That's not the point. The point is that you hold it up as a pinnacle of something to live by. The fact you DON'T follow all 613 laws you're supposed to is a point for your character. You know that the Bible is immoral, but you still call it the "good book."

[KemaTheAtheist]

So, I say to you again, GEERUP, bring evidence of your claims of God's existence, power, etc... everything you define him as, or just go away.

Without evidence claims like "having dominion over the atom molecule" just makes you sound ignorant for two reasons... 1.) You can't prove it. 2.) It shows you know very little of science... There is no such thing as an "atom molecule." Atom is single, molecule is multiple atoms.

Again, bring evidence of your claims or just go away.

[KemaTheAtheist]

P.S. It's late and I'm going to bed. Feel free to respond, but I won't be back until morning.

Secondly, don't expect a response unless you are giving verifiable evidence for your claims. If you don't respond, assume I told you to go read a science book.

[GEERUP]

"assume I told you to go read a science book." spoken like a proud hardened atheistic verbal abuser. Demanding this and demanding that, all the while moaning that the Bible is authoritarian and you don't want to be told what to do. doublethink

Holy Scripture is a verifiable you can start by the simple stuff like places they can be confirmed on a map. eyewitness testimony works in court it can also work for the Bible this to is verifiable. So until you do some research this conversation is over

[KemaTheAtheist]

"Holy Scripture is a verifiable you can start by the simple stuff like places they can be confirmed on a map."

That means the places existed. You can't then extrapolate it to show event really happened there. Historical events require good documentation.

Just because Mt. Olympus exists, does not mean all the Greek gods do.

[KemaTheAtheist]

"eyewitness testimony works in court it can also work for the Bible this to is verifiable."

In court, there's something called a statute of limitations because eyewitness testimony is horrible even after only a few years. Every bit of testimony is not only second-hand (which makes it inadmissible hearsay) is also written at best 30 years after the event which makes them very inaccurate... like 3 different versions of what Jesus' last words were.

Read that Bible again sometime.

[mordinvan]

"who put you in charge of the three ring circus?"

The scientific method actually. The idea that claims require evidence before they should be accepted. The more unbelievable the claim, the more evidence needed to support it.

Thus far the idea of a invisible god which created the entire universe and all the creatures of the world to look like they'd come from a point singularity ~15 billion years ago isn't very forth coming. Nor that he incarnated, died, and resurrected.

[mordinvan]

"humanity is fallen"

From what? And can you prove it, or are you yet again making baseless assertions?

"We have inherited a sinful nature"

see above about proof and assertions....

"We who who have ears to hear"

Then hear this. Humanity is ~150,000 years old. There is no evidence of Yahweh going back much past about 4000 years ago. Why would he leave humanity alone for ~146,000 years?

"and hearts to receive"

Pity there is nothing to receive but empty promises from a farrier tale.

[mordinvan]

"standing before God"

Which one? There have only been tens of thousands of them since the dawn of human history, and there are several thousand at present actively being worshiped by humans in the modern day. So which one? What empirical proof do you have that YOUR god is THE god, and that all other gods are false?

"our free will"

Free will can not exist in a system where all possible reactions to a all possible conditions are known ahead of time, and initial conditions are chosen.

[GEERUP]

which one? are you serious try the one you hate the most. The one most reviled. The one most mocked ridiculed and despised. The one most misunderstood misquoted and blasphemed. The one that haunts you can and cut you to the core.

The one that you cry out to when you lose a loved one to death. The one that atheists spend their time obsessing over, That's the one he's a real God.

Fill up your cup for this is your day to drink in corruption with wild abandon.

[mordinvan]

"the one you hate the most"

That would be all of them. I hate the very idea of god. I hate the idea because of what people do in its name. I hate it because of what they impose upon others in his name. I hate it because 5 people reading the same passage will come up with 5 (possibly mutually exclusive) ideas of what was being said, each claiming to be right.

"The one that haunts you can and cut you to the core. "

No, what cuts me is what you people do in his name.

[GEERUP]

"I hate the very idea of god" because of what people do in its name" I know many people who in the name of (insert generic god). many loving and wonderful things like build hospitals. Homes for the poor. Shelter for the unwanted. providing water and food for the hungry. I've seen people in the name of Jesus give a kidney donate blood. In the name of God I have even heard of great halls of learning colleges. Great victories for freedom and liberty have been achieved his name. but you hate it all

[mordinvan]

And I donate blood, am on a bone marrow registry, volunteer my time as a tutor, and support several charities. None of which is done in the name of a god.

Yes I do, because none of the pretense of a god is needed. Why can't you be good for the sake of being good? Why can you only be good when you think you're being watched? Why is your morality so weak that it can not stand on its own?

Why can I do all I do with NO god, and you can't do any of it without him? Why the crutch?

[GEERUP]

and remember that time when you said you hate the things that are done in the name of God? do you have you forgotten the good that's done in the name of God? you reveal your shallow or dishonest perception of people who do something in the name of God that happens to be good even by your standards. So if I donate blood giving honor to God if I volunteer as a tutor giving honor to God. And I do all this good do you still hate people of faith because they selflessly give in the name of God?

[mordinvan]

"have you forgotten the good that's done"

No, but I find it pathetic you need god to do good. I have no god yet I am quite capable of doing good, this this would seem impossible for people like you without him.

"you still hate people of faith"

No, I hate their faith. Their blind faith, and ability to chose and twist the words of their holy books to justify any depravity or inhumanity they wish to inflict upon another. If you do good, do it because you are good, same for evil, don't cloak it.

[mordinvan]

If I donated blood because hitler or stalin or mao said it was a good idea... wouldn't that taint the act? Instead of doing it because I'm good, I'm now doing it because I was commanded to by someone I should be mortally afraid of. Your God has threatened far worse then any mortal punishment, yet you claim he loves us. I don't threaten to torture my loved ones at all, let alone for all of eternity, no matter what they do to me. People who do this are sick, as are the people who allow it.

[GEERUP]

"Why can you only be good when you think you're being watched?" again another immature or dishonest assumption made of people who do the good that they do in the name of God solely because they're being watched. do you honestly see the vast seas of people who have had compassion on others ONLY because they believe they are being watched? and you're probably not aware of this but you have a holier than thou attitude about your exclusive self-righteousness. narrowmindedness may be YOUR crutch.

[mordinvan]

"ONLY because they believe they are being watched?"

Yes. Give then very large number of christians and muslims who seem to think common decency would be impossible without god's constant guidance I sincerely do because I have be told so by the people who use that as a moral compass.

"holier than thou "

Nothing could be further from the truth, as to me nothing is holy.

"narrowmindedness "

my mind is actually VERY open, it had to be or I never would have understood my genetics degree.

[mordinvan]

I am actually willing to accept virtually anything given sufficient supporting evidence. No person of faith however has been able to provide a single shred of evidence to back up ANY of their claims about the presence of any supernatural force, let alone their one specific infallible supernatural force called god.

IF your god exists and is omniscient THEN he knows what information is needed to change my mind, and thus far as REFUSED to present it. Seems he doesn't WANT me to believe.

[mordinvan]

Also interesting you chose not to respond to my comment about infinite punishment. Just let me know when you work out why your god is such a great guy, when he'll quite willing do things infinitely worse then what I described to people by the billions, and yet if I were to do what I described to even 1 person, you would call me a monster.

[mordinvan]

"the one you hate the most"

I hate the idea of god, and the actions and ideas of their fan clubs, but not any given god.

"The one most misunderstood misquoted and blasphemed"

By whom? There's about 4 billion people on the planet right now that worship the god of Abraham, so you can't possibly mean him. So honestly, which one?

"The one that you cry out to when you lose a loved one"

I'm still not getting it... I cry to my friends, a good book, sometimes even my dog.. but never a god.

[mordinvan]

At the moment of choosing an omniscient god would know all events which would take place in your life and how you would react to them, just like a calculator maker knows what answers his machine will give when provided with inputs. I could only have free will if my possible actions were unknown and/or the conditions which would elicit them not chosen ahead of time.

"we can't say God made me do it"

Yet you seem to think "god did it" is a perfectly valid reason for the genocides of the bible.

[mordinvan]

"And/or your case "

My genetic code combined the environmental effects of my gestation and upbringing, and the environmental stimulus of the prevailing conditions made me do it.

"You are responsible for your deeds done. "

Really? But I thought god forgives you if you just ask for it..completely clearing away your sins, and your responsibility for them.

"You will pay "

No, I will die and rot and the ground, or wherever, just like you.

"the grace and mercies of God"

with countless genocides

[mordinvan]

"That's why an infinite God provides a means of redemption avoiding infinite punishment. "

Why can an infinite god not speak the words "I forgive you" and mean them without needing to kill himself first? That seems to be an awfully big limitation on a limitless god. Why would a merciful god figure infinite punishment for finite sin is justice? I could do some very terrible things to a human body and mind, but anything I did no matter how terrible would still be finite.

[GEERUP]

the Bible tells us that we were made from the dust of the earth, then God breathed the breath of life into us he fashioned us different than all the creatures upon the earth we are made in his image. We have souls which will last for ever. Your physical body someday will be shed but what makes you unique in every way is that spark of divine origin a spiritual being in a natural body but dreadfully rebellious because of the fall of Adam. But through one man sin. through one man Jesus salvation.

[mordinvan]

"that I deserve a separation from his holy presence"

The same person who made humanity, and the snake, knowing that with no moral compass to guide them, that they would be swayed by the snake and would be powerless to prevent it as they could not know they are doing wrong, but set it up like that anyway... that god?

Can you tell me WHY you should want to associate with someone who set things up so they could only turn out this way?

[mordinvan]

Just pretend for a minute that I terraformed a planet somewhere, and using a giant chemistry and biology lab basically replicated the first part of the book of genesis with god like precision. I make 2 people, who are both sociopaths as adam and eve were. People incapable of telling right from wrong, have no knowledge of good or evil. Then I put a plant in a garden which will give their brains them chemicals they are missing, and actually allow them to possess a moral compass.

[mordinvan]

Then I command them not to eat from this tree, but put a 'snake' in the garden which tries to tell them too. Even if they love me will all their being, they can not know disobeying me is wrong, because they don't know what wrong is. Also can not know either the snake or I would lie to them, as they likely don't understand deception is even a concept let alone a possibility.

Could they possibly have commit an evil by eating from the tree?

[GEERUP]

I prefer atheists one star my videos it seems to confirm I'm doing the right thing. my experience with atheists it is almost always opposite day just because I testify of divine retribution so I must suffer the unbridled wrath of men who rage against the creator. and yet clinging to the fantasy that all of life's complexity exploded in to existence from nothing and or equally ludicrous notion that matter is eternal. Giving godhood status to mommy and daddy hydrogen atoms. cling to your stars.

[HonestDiscussioner]

I prefer people, whoever they are, acknowledge that I made a good point, even it they disagree . It isn't opposite day with us, I've been told that perhaps you don't believe that we don't believe in your religion, but I get to decide what I believe, not you, and vice versa. So I rage against a belief, not an entity, and its a quite rage at that. If you won't accept that my issue is with religion and not the idea of God, well I'm sorry. I've never had to make a video against John L. Armstrong.

[mordinvan]

"seems to confirm I'm doing the right thing."

Speaking with certainty about that which you can not be certain?

"because I testify of divine retribution"

You are violating the whole "judge not" part of what the bible says, and are a hypocrite.

"that all of life's complexity exploded in to existence from nothing"

No... life gradually arose from a series of increasingly complex steps which at some reasonably early point involved self assembly of polymers from naturally occurring monomers.

[mordinvan]

"from nothing"

No... from if you go back far enough an energy field of near infinite to infinite density and a "momentum" equal to the sum of all the future momentum of the universe.

"that matter is eternal."

Who ever said it was. Energy on the other hand is quite a different story.

"Giving godhood status to mommy and daddy hydrogen atoms. "

We don't claim they are sentient, all powerful, or even eternal. We do accept they likely didn't even exist till 1/2 million years after the big bang.

[Fordi]

"Do you think this will actually convince us?!"

I've argued with Geerup before; he thinks that we believe in God, but we're denying it vehemently in order to remain comfortable with our choices in life.

He's a funny guy, really. Sad, and funny.

[jaywolfe82]

Is that a wine glass in the background?!? What were you drinking?

[HonestDiscussioner]

Wine.

Technically that's my Dad's glass from last night. We were drinking "Twisted Zin" from California while I built his website.

[jaywolfe82]

Yea, I hate when people twist the Bible to fit their own viewpoint... how evil!

LOL

[sablechicken]

far from honest discussion on your end.

[HonestDiscussioner]

Excuse me? I'm sorry at what point did I lie?

[sablechicken]

Imrational asked many Christians privately to have a discussion with about Christianity with him and you come off like it is against some rules to use the Bible, when it is one of the main ways God has revealed himself. And that we are forcing our thoughts on to unbelievers, when in reality you are the one that has not be officially invited....GEERUP is unimpressed by your integrity as well.

I don't find that you even want to really discuss, and that is what I find most dishonest here.

[HonestDiscussioner]

While you have every right to offend me, please understand that there is little you can say that would do so more than that.

I never saw Iamrational's video. I never said anyone was forcing thoughts onto anyway, and I need to invitation to speak my mind. Either you misunderstood the entire point of the video, or YOU are the one being dishonest in your attempts to brand me as such. In almost all discussion, Christians presuppose the Bible is correct and speak as though we believe as such.

[sablechicken]

I totally understand that the unbeliever doesn't believe in the Bible...but you NEED to understand that the believer DOES believe.

Why don't you honestly inquire what it is that makes us believe...rather than insist that you don't believe...or just forget about the topic and go do something secular.

[HonestDiscussioner]

"Why don't you honestly inquire what it is that makes us believe..."

Umm . . . that was the point of the entire video. Tell us why the Bible is true, why we should believe it, why you believe it is the inspired word of God, not just quote it as fact. The whole point was to say you should talk about why you believe and not what you believe. We are well aware of what you believe.

[sablechicken]

So you really believe, "man evolved from ape"?

[HonestDiscussioner]

That was an expression . . . but we certainly evolved from lower life forms.

[sablechicken]

What makes you so certain?

Why do you consider other life forms to be "lower"

BTW if a Creationist was caught saying, "man evolved from ape" out of the wood work would jump a ton of hardcore religious atheists frothing the mouth, crying go read a science you stupid *%&#^!...so please don't give me that crap about "It's an expression"

[HonestDiscussioner]

Because I've seen the evidence.

Lower=less complex

Yes it is an expression, and with only 500 characters sometimes you may revert to using that instead of "human beings shared a recent common ancestor with the chimpanze".

The analogy wasn't about evolution either, it was about how reading something from a book doesn't prove anything, you have to discuss why the book is right first. Therefore, I wasn't being particular.

[mordinvan]

"What makes you so certain? "

A study of physical anthropology.

"Why do you consider other life forms to be "lower""

Mostly do to their position on the tree of life, which is often drawn vertically. "Earlier" would be a better term.

"religious atheists"

What's that? Ever heard of an oxymoron? A self refuting term.

"so please don't give me that crap about "It's an expression" "

Fearing the truth as always?

[HonestDiscussioner]

"when it is one of the main ways God has revealed himself"

So based on this, perhaps it is the former, since we don't believe God has used the Bible to reveal anything. I am merely trying to point that out. Just like I wouldn't quote "man evolved from ape" from a science text book, (you know, the book science uses to reveal itself) and use that as proof. I'd show WHY it is right first, and that is a step most Christians miss.

Call me wrong, call me ignorant . . . AM I NOT DISHONEST!

[Fordi]

A discussion generally involves establishing agreed-upon information as a start. As atheists having a discussion with theistic christians (see: the Jefferson Bible), the historicity of the Bible is not a point of agreement.

As such, it doesn't really move the discussion forward to do what Geerup is attempting, that is, to use the bible as evidence for its stories. It's tautology at its best and circular reasoning at its worst.

[kalsolarUK]

Great video...the gentle sarcasm works really well! lol.

[HonestDiscussioner]

Thanks, I try.

[smpunditz]

By the way when he said Jesus was the perfect man it implied something. Maybe Geerup wants a piece of Jesus's stimulus package. Oh I couldn't resist. I'm going to have to make a response now just so I can say that.

[AutumnRide86]

Good stuff. I hope you do more response videos - it's so much fun watching Christian pseudo arguments being systematically debunked.

[smpunditz]

I didn't even know he started making videos again.

[HonestDiscussioner]

I didn't even know he had stopped . . . but then again I just started watching him.

[smpunditz]

He didn't say anything, but he stopped making movies for about a month.

Nice humor.

[Fordi]

I hadn't noticed he stopped either - but then I've been getting a bit bored with the "how stupid can fundies make themselves look" game - and moved on to harder stuff.

The Hebrew Israelites. Pure, distilled, hilariously tragic fail.