canada and the usa both suck when it comes to healthcare. canada. oh its free but you will have to whait. usa. will take you right away but then we will take your house. so in canada you can die before they get to you and in the usa you can die if you cant afford healthcare. i dont no if this is true or not but france is the place to go for good healtcare. i was watching eh michael moore movie and france looked so ahead of the times and they put healtcare frist. we can learn from france.
@986tornado, you're right with your analysis of the US & Canada, but I disagree with your conclusion. France's system is facing collapse in the coming years, and it will no longer be able to get enough taxes to support it.
In this clip, John Stossel explains in detail how the US system's costs got where they are, and how they can be fixed:
@Liberty He paints a very biased report particularly on Canadian healthcare, cherry picking stories, using highly biased opinions from Sally Pipes & Dr. David Gratzer. He paints with a broad brush based on extremely misleading information. He also is hypothesizing that a 100% true market will magically bring the costs of all healthcare down. He doesn't mention that, even if costs dropped by half in the U.S., millions could still not afford it. Half of REALLY expensive is still REALLY EXPENSIVE.
@MadHabber93, the fact that it takes 6+ months to get MRI is not an opinion, it's fact. And it's a dissaster for a rich country to have something like that.
Healthcare insurance plans in the US can drop by a lot more than half if refomrs are passed, and Medicaid can then easily pick up the slack.
The cost part is explained here: /watch?v=EL53vVKrsyw (you can skip to 4 minutes into it)
@LibertyDownUnder No, its not fact. Avg. posted wait times for NON-urgent MRI's in the Province of Ontario for example is less than 30 days. Immediately for urgent cases. I know this, because I LIVE HERE. I waited all of 10 days for one for a sinus infection. Hence why it is B.S., cherry picking crap.
Very few qualify for Medicaide. There are Millions in the U.S. that can't afford insurance premiums, so how can they afford healthcare treatment costs, even if they dropped? They can't!!
@LibertyDownUnder Victoria is a small city, isolated from the rest of the country. Again, cherry picking a newspaper article is hardly strong evidence of an entire country. Stossel would have you believe that, nor does he mention that we don't wait for urgent MRI's or surgery. He conveniently leaves that out. In addition, 90% support our system and would never want the for profit system of the U.S. Canadians are fed up of the lies & misinformation to further the U.S. right wing agenda
@LibertyDownUnder Your comparing car service to healthcare? And yes, just ignore poll after poll after poll showing STRONG support to our system.
Don't squabble over statistics, yet you choose to list the extreme wait times for less than 5 % of the populaiton vs. the averages for non-urgent care?
And do you mean improve the availability to those that want to jump the que based on their ability to pay vs. their need of care?
In Canada, we value equal access based on need not wallet size.
@MadHabber93, YES, I'm comparing MRI services to a car service. An auto garage has equipment that's more expensive than an MRI machine, so how come garages are so readily available everywhere?
Also, they have over 10 McDonalds outlets in that town. Those cost $3m+.
Doesn't it seem a bit odd that a town that can spend $30 million on burgers, doesn't have the money for a few MRI machines?
Please take a step back from this all and see the absurdity here.
@LibertyDownUnder Because becoming a mechanic is far easier than a doctor or an MRI tech. Not to mention, you are cherry picking one bad spot and then painting with a broad brush for an entire country. Kind of reminds me of Stossel.
YOu also have to take into account the geography of our country and the location you are cherry picking. Victoria, although beautiful, is isolated with a small population. Where would they rather live Vancouver or Victoria. Private care won't change that.
@Liberty Again, comparing apples to oranges makes no sense. We are also short on radiographers across the country. So MRI's aren't the issue, running them is. More of them won't matter if you don't have the qualified people to run them. If you are in demand, where do you go? Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, etc. or isolate yourself in Victoria? There are other issues than just cost of an MRI. Again, I waited 10 days, in a province of low wait times, but let's talk about Victoria?
@LibertyDownUnder The fact is, we don't wait for urgent or semi-urgent care. My colleague waited no time for her MRI when her achillies heel ruptured. Our friends 19 year old daughter had 2 MRI's the same day when showing signs of stroke. Why didn't Stossel use them in his biased report? Why aren't we discussing my city of London, Ontario where I waited 10 days, or my sister 14 days? Why not ask the question, if they get these wait times in Ontario under a public system, why can't Victoria?
@MadHabber93 Why not ask the question, how long does one wait in this utopia free market system when they can't afford the MRI, let alone the operation needed that the MRI diagnosed?
Cherry picking wait times, stories, etc. is misleading hack journalism from Stossel. I used to like him. Now the he's with Faux News, ooops Fox News, he's turned into a biased shill.
I've only just begun here, that is why I didn't want to bother responding to you.
@LibertyDownUnder Small details??? Those are all major factors. Victoria's MRI wait times used to be 13 weeks just a couple of years ago, they are now 30 weeks on average. Why?? Just blaming it on 'socialized care' is not the answer.
To say there would be no que based on a voucher is meaningless if their aren't enough numbers to go around. MRI recommendations are going through the roof. Many times, unnecessarily. That is a far bigger 'small' detail.
@MadHabber93, I'm not saying privatisation is a magical answer, I'm just trying to show you a different approach.
When people need to eat, they go out and buy what they want with their own money. They don't queue to get a Government allocated food ration (USSR style).
The poor get an allowance / food stamps and they use it the way they see fit. Private operators run supermarkets & compete on price & quality.
Healthcare would have alot less problems if it ran along these lines.
@LibertyDownUnder To say they would have a lot less problems just doesn't hold true to real world experience. The U.S. has the most privitisation on the planet, yet have many, many problems.
@MadHabber93, half of US healthcare spending is by the Government, and almost 100% of spending is regulated by the Government. This doesn't exactly qualify as a free market. That's the whole point of the Stossel video.
The US had an abundence of health services and they were very cheap before all these Government agencies were set up.
Both systems have some serious problems, and both could do with LESS central control to fix them.
@LibertyDownUnder I never said it was a total free market. But its still the most free on the planet. What Stossel fails to address that its a theory that prices would drop, which they wouldn't, as U.S. docs already complain about what Medicare pays and that's already less than the private market. And you and Stossel think this free market utopia will drop prices?? Again, even if it did, half or more than half of unaffordable for millions is STILL unaffordable.
@LibertyDownUnder That's true. But it still costs as low as a grand for a 30 second procedure (lasik, had it done). But again, Millions can't afford that luxury procedure that has no bearing on one's longetivity. Plastic surgery still costs thousands upon thousands of dollars. You can tell who all the regular, average people are. They are all ugly because they can't afford it. Do you really want a system where only the above average income earners can afford life saving or altering surgery?
@MadHabber93, the point was about bringing down costs.
Giving birth in the US costs about $20,000 if you pay out of pocket.
Do you not think that if private hospitals were freed up from all the regulations mandates, they would be able to bring down that cost?
The US & Canada (and the rest of the world) could easily take care of the needy among them if they stopped encouraging EVERYONE to depend on these centralised systems, and just gave poor people a hand UP when needed.
@LibertyDownUnder I find it funny that you say we are 'dependant' on healthcare like its a bad thing. Well of course we are...we want good timely access to quality healthcare without the burden of cost... ANY cost getting in the way. Yes, we encourage people to catch disease early, as it costs less. That's what will bring healthcare costs down, not a free market.
So tell me, what mandates are in place that burdens any hospital and doctor to charge $20 grand for giving birth?
@LibertyDownUnder Do you have any clue how much long term, chronic disease cost to treat? So if you get one of them, too bad for you. You can't pay, even in this supposed cheap free market healthcare, too bad??
Stossel advocates no insurance, so its every man for himself. The system in the U.S. is already TOO much like that, and look what its getting. Hundreds of thousands bankrupt every year, Millions forgoing needed treatment due to cost, and how many dying because of it?
@MadHabber93, he doesn't advocate 'no insurance', he want's high deductible insurance only.
If insurance in the US covered extreme cases only, like cancer, chronic illness etc, it would cost a fraction of the current charges. Probably $200-300 / month.
People would pay cash for most procedures, and only use insurance for bills over (say) $5,000.
Those below a certain income would then easily be covered by Medicaid.
@LibertyDownUnder That's what Peter Schiff keeps repeating. Anything government touches and gets its nose in, the more messed up it becomes. People think that keeping the status quo a miracle will come and fix it. Oh Yeah!!!! It's the same story that Jesus will return. BUNCH OF SHEEPLE.
And I have to laugh at this airhead who went to Oklahoma. "You're just a number" to Canadian doctors. lol And in the American health care system you're not???? And dealing with the American insurance death panels over the phone tryinig to get a payout? I'm sure they give lots and lots of tender loving care! LMAO Doctors are great in Canada. And, unlike in the US, if you don't like your doctor, you can shop around. And get a second opinion! lol Sorry America, you lose.....
Pure propaganda. FEWER people are going abroad for health care than they were. This is not just a Canadian phenomenon. It's world-wide. MANY Americans leave the US for health care too. And I laugh at Americans who come to Canada, have to wait a bit, and then complain. The problem is that they have to PAY for their Canadian health care - we don't. Furthermore, are Americans going to try and tell us that they don't have to wait in their system?.....Ever been to an emergency room in the US?....lol
This woman is the exception, not the rule. My sister waited 2 months for her hip replacement, my father waited 4 months, and has had both hips done with one done twice. All she had to do was call another surgeon to find out their wait time instead of wasting thousands of dollars going south.
I mean canadians know, they shouldn't brag about it. I have insurance and here u don't wait, and te doctors here are efficients.
Do you know that moat of the Canadian doctors work in the US as well? We paid more rather than having a fix paid from the gov of Canada. Ofcourse there's ppl here who can't afford to have a healthcare but that's why we have 3rd party systems for ppl w low resources to get insurance, rather have that and get help than dying in a waiting room and have a "dunno" answer.
@jvrdlc Wow, you waited a bit in Ottawa?? I waited in Dallas for 15 hours with many others. Many in great pain. THe ER was filthy & smelt like piss. Do I conclude that an entire system or every hospital is the same across the U.S. because of it? No, as that would be STUPID.
Our systems 'sucks' yet 90% of us support it, with satisfaction rates of 85%, and almost none of us would want the for profit insurance run system of the U.S.
@jvrdlc "and te doctors here are efficients." What language is this??
And no 'moat' of our doctors don't work in the States. Our docs are paid by fee for service, with many billing well into the 6 and 7 figures. They are the highest paid profession in Canada.
Why were you in the ER in Ottawa? You see, in our system, its based on need NOT ability to pay. Millions of your countrymen forgo needed care EVERY year because they can't afford it. THe ultimate wait time in the U.S. FOREVER
Canadian healthcare is a straight BS. They brag it to the sky how great it is lol
I was in a hospital in Canada Ottawa with a friend and fuckk you have to bring your blankets and pillow and an alarm bc you van stay in the waiting room for HRS! its horrible. Then u go in and get w a suprised that the doctor doesn't give a fuck about you. And the last 4 times I went they told her they dunno wut it is. She went once to get a puffer, inhaler and it took us 5hrs. The system sucks. I mean canadians k
Canadian healthcare is a straight BS. They brag it to the sky how great it is lol
I was in a hospital in Canada Ottawa with a friend and fuckk you have to bring your blankets and pillow and an alarm bc you van stay in the waiting room for HRS! its horrible. Then u go in and get w a suprised that the doctor doesn't give a fuck about you. And the last 4 times I went they told her they dunno wut it is. She went once to get a puffer, inhaler and it took us 5hrs. The system sucks. I mean canadians k
@jvrdlc I laughed at what you wrote. It was so general, it was meaningless. You had to wait for "HRS" "It was horrible" "doctor doesn't give a fuck about you" "they dunno wut is is". lol 5 hrs for a puffer??? Wow, maybe you shouldn't have brought the pillow. You obviously missed your turn...Funny though. Everything you just described is true of American hospitals too. Only we don't have to pay. Best system in the world
@temporaryheaven best system in the world? based on who? canadians? maybe.. no system is perfect bud. go google it and see the huge flaws ur poor system has.. theres a lot of complains about the canadian system, heard from canadians in Ottawa.
@jvrdlc Based on comparing it to the US system. We are well aware of the flaws that crop up sometimes, and we are always improving it. However, the crap we hear in the American media about the "flaws" is ridiculous. I live in one of the largest cities in Canada, and I have never had your experience. That includes my extended family. Furthermore, I am READY to wait if I have to. My first-class health care is free. It's ALWAYS there for me. And I control it. Not an insurance company.
@temporaryheaven dont hate on the vid, truth hurts, like i said no system is unique. and why would i lie, i was there for more than 5 f hours for a Puffer yeah, more, got inside the doctor left us for 45 mins there then comes back with a dunno answer and make us go somewhere else. yea 5 times or more i was in a hospital. so no TO ME not flawless at all. to you prob. since its free, why would u complain right? take it..
@jvrdlc First of all, why did you go to an ER for a puffer? Secondly, it may have been busy there, it depends what time of day it was, and when the doctor takes you in, he still has several other rooms where patients are waiting for him. I don't get your story. You went for a puffer, and the doctor says "i dunno". He dunno what? What a puffer was??? And the vid is ridiculous. So biased. "Everybody was friendly" As if in Canada all the doctors are assholes. Sure. Her story is not the norm.
love all this propoganda BS that American news shows about Canadian healthcare, poking a a country that provides a longer lifespan for its citizens by at least 3 years longer than the average American, 85%+ of Canadian are satisfied with our healthcare, don`t believe the lies of waiting 4-6 months to see a specialist etc etc, if you`ve got a serious disease or whatever you`re seen ad treated right away. Find it arrogant for the American public to criticize another country before looking at u
Hard to make an argument on numbers because the Candian Health care system certainly doesn't want to admit publicly that we are losing doctors. I know we have lost several over the years and the city is about 100,000 size. Maybe more telling though is that if you check many of the richer Candians including some leading politicians have gone south for medical care. Chretien, Mulroney and Williams to name 3. Our system is not sustainable and I can say that because I grew up in premedicare Canada.
@RedC53 A. Its a myth that many doctors or patients go south for care. In fact, the last 8 years has seen more docs returning B. Cretein and Mulroney NEVER went to the States for care. And Williams went for a procedure pioneered in Toronto and Winnipeg, to have it done in Miami in the middle of winter where he owns his posh condo. One rich politician going south for care means nothing. D. Our system,, according to a Harvard economist, is more than sustainable.
Madhabber93 is really crazy dropping f-bombs in e-mails getting called out on his contradiction , trying to change the argument ,making up stories and getting called out on that and his spelling . People just stop responding to a troll like him. He is trying to insult your intelligence with his lies .A guy with a bankrupt vocabulary like his would only be scrubbing toilets and washing floors at Pfizer.The guy is a poser and he exposed himself with his lack of knowledge .
Madhabber93 is real mad dropping f-bombs in e-mails getting called out on his contradiction , trying to change the argument ,making up stories and getting called out on that and his spelling . People just stop responding to a troll like him. He is trying to insult your intelligence with his lies .A guy with a bankrupt vocabulary like his would only be scrubbing toilets and washing floors at Pfizer.The guy is a poser and he exposed himself with his lack of knowledge .
Esmail fails to tell reason tv that our best and brightest medical students are lured to the U.S.A. by the higher salary offered to them . Canada needs to find better incentives for these guys to stay in canada to practice medicine. Seems every year we hear on newscasts that top american hospitals are here to recruit doctors and nurses and the promise of more money .
@kokanee2010a That was true in the 90's but not the last decade. In fact, more docs are returning to Canada from the U.S. then going over for the last 8 years. Even at its peak in the 90's, it still only represented 1% of those going over vs. the doctors that stay here. Docs in Canada have now become the highest paid profession in the country.
@MadHabber93 are you trying to tell me I was hallucinating when i watched the news items? If youtube had newsitems from our newscasts I could prove it to you . Maybe the people coming back home to canada that you have heard of just couldn't cut it in the U.S.A. , I liken it to be like the nhl draft , the people you know of are the Jani Rita's of the medical world. I also said our best and brightest I didn't mention a percentage .
@MadHabber93 we gained 55 more doctors than what were leaving only in 2010? Does that take into account the 30 years of drain in previous years? , and I did say medical students as in health professionals that would include nurses also . Just under the article you tried to point out to me , I found this one "Canada Needs Foreign Doctors to Deal with Growing Shortages " so we are not out of this shortfall of 26.000 by a long shot. I noticed that number with a quick glance.
@kokanee2010a Where are you pulling your numbers from?? 30 years?? THe suppossed 'drain' started in the 90's, and never accounted more than 1% of the number of docs in Canada. Its a myth, pure and simple. And more docs coming back is more docs coming back. We also have more nurses per capita than the U.S. as well, not to mention they make great coin as well. We have a number in London, ON making 6 figures. Not to mention the U.S. has a doc shortage too. DO some research!!!
@MadHabber93 it was in that same article where I saw that the difference between the doctors that come home from the usa was 55 more than graduated and went to the usa in 2010 , the link you proposed to send to me ,never worked so I googled in the key words and found an article . Go ahead and use the key words and you will find it. I am not making stuff up. and of course we are going to be ahead when you put it in per capita, USA has approximately ten times the population.
@kokanee2010a If you replaced an actual period for DOT, the link would work.
You also know doctors??? Have you head the term anecdotal evidence? I also know a number of doctors, I work in the PHarma industry, who have returned from the U.S. to practice again here. Again, your original premise that a flood of docs go south for care is a myth, with more doctors coming back than going over for nearly the last 10 years. It doesn't matter that its not a lot, it matters that your WRONG.
@MadHabber93 you're mad that there is proof that I am right about what i have seen on tv and what I have read on the internet. You are trying to tell me that I am wrong that doctors and nurses are not going to the usa to work? Do you understand that these numbers do not even include the canadian students that go down to the usa to get their education . And after graduation they stay down there , we were only talking about the ones graduating from canadian university.
@kokanee2010a Your proof is SHIT. Saying you saw it on TV means FUCK ALL. You didn't prove anything. And the number that go down south for their education AGAIN, is small. And spare me on the spelling when you don't even capitalize or punctuate properly.
@MadHabber93 I have only seen one year that more doctors have come back to canada than graduates going to the usa. That was 2010 , you have dismissed the 80's all together , but yes that was when we were first noticing the slow trickle of doctors going to the usa. I wont be responding to any more of your posts , you have contradicted yourself too many times and you can't spell so I don't think I am dealing with an educated person . read your own posts and not just the ones to me on here
@MadHabber93 I am getting my numbers from two internet articles both saying what I have tried to convey to you and I have remembered all the news items over the last 30 years saying as much .Also I know some of those doctors from my childhood that went down south to practice medicine and are still down there as far as I know . I saw one of the fathers of one of the doctors at my nieces wedding back in 2009 .anyway I am not going to try to convince you of the truth it is out there.
I don't know how you can make any judgement about this without reviewing this woman's medical records. My gut feeling is that doctors (who by the way are generally some of the most compassionate people in the world) probably felt that physical therapy was her best choice but she objected to the personal effort. That she got the work done at a for profit clinic doesn't surprise me, it merely shows that money will buy anything you want.
People who are backers of the Medicare system in Canada (such as myself) need to finally stop vilifying these people who did go to the U.S. for treatment, because as I've personally experienced, and from the evidence has shown, our system is badly out of date, underfunded and bureaucratic. Its time for reform, and that might mean opening up some private hospitals. My sister had to wait 10 hours in the emergency room at the Ottawa General Hospital after she came in with a concussion...
@Cnd1867 Opening up more private clinics, which is now happening, is pulling more and more docs away from the public system in order to make more money in the private sector. These docs now serve less people, while wait times would actually increase on the public side that the vast majority use.
And although unfortunate your sister waited 10 hours with a concussion, it could have been an extremely busy time. What do you think would happen with less docs in that hospital?
Then rather than creating more bureaucracy like the Local Health Boards in Ontario, we should match the private sector salary of a doctor in the public sector. Pay them, what the market says they should be paid. Also I don't accept this notion that there would be a sudden rush to the private sector, because doctors now, know in the private sector there's a better chance of having more benefits, a bigger pension etc. You can't arbitrarily say they would switch without hesitation.
@Cnd1867 Doctors are the highest paid profession by average in Canada right now. Many are making mid to upper 6 figures. Matching to the private industry is not necessary. For the sudden rush, it wouldn't be a sudden rush I agree, but if you look at what happened in Australia wait times would go up for the majority.
As someone who has was born in Canada, lived there until they were 18, and has lived in the U.S. since 1995, I can honestly compare both countries insofar as the healthcare goes. Unlike in the States, Canadian citizens do not have to have a second mortgage on their homes to be able to afford medical care. The taxpayers contribute. When I moved here, I was on a prescription that, in Canada, cost me $5.00/dose. In the U.S. the EXACT SAME medication was about $150.00. Just one example of many.
Albertans pay $4,416 per citizen per year for healthcare alone. Much of that money is poorly spent on bureaucracy and over-paid union employees. The provincial government intentionally rations surgical facilities to save money, which creates our wait lists. None of this information is controversial or hard to find. Strangely, there is no doctor shortage, there's a shortage of surgical facilities... and yet many think, contrary to fact, that a purely public system is the best choice...
@RustyIronloins There is no doctor shortage?? yes there is. And if there aren't enough docs for a single payer system, there won't be for a two tiered system. A two tiered system would pull valuable resources ie doctors& nurses from the public system that serves many to a private for profit system that serves the wealthier few. What will that do to the majority, actually increase the wait times for them. You also said that our system is unsustainable, yet its clear that it still is.
@MadHabber93 The doctor shortage is somewhat fabricated. There is government rationing of surgical rooms. That's why there are waiting lists. If we had 4x the doctors it would not change that fact. If there were sufficient spaces, we could talk about a doctor shortage... but the fact is we have no evidence of a lack of doctors CAUSING wait lists because there are more than enough doctors for the available spaces. The problem is the governments' monopoies over healthcare delivery.
@RustyIronloins 15% don't have a family doc. Specialists have wait lists because they are getting too many patients referred to them. There's enough surgery time ( I work in a related industry) but what we need is better management of it. Bringing in a 2nd tier will only reduce wait times for the better off. Btw, I am part of the better off.
@MadHabber93 You do not work in a "related industry"... sorry, you are too ignorant of the law and facts for that to be true. I work in the industry. I deal with these issues daily.
@RustyIronloins I work in Pharma and I'm in and out of Canadian hospitals everyday, including Alberta. What 'industry' do you work in.
Not to mention, there are private for profit clinics in Alberta providing service outside the public system. So I don't believe you are in the industry as you would know that.
@RustyIronloins And where is the evidence that our hospitals are very poor. Do you mean in quality? Our hospitals compare to any hospitals in the world, both in what they offer to healthcare outcomes. You are also incorrect that you can't pay for services with cash. There are people that do opt out of the provinical systems and pay cash for their services. The amish for example. Its not against any law to pay cash, but what's not allowed is to jump the que by paying cash to go first.
@RustyIronloins I have been outside of Canada, about 20 different countries, where our healthcare outcomes, amenable mortality, cancer survival is near the top on the planet.
It is NOT illegal to pay cash for medical care in ANY province. New immigrants have NO coverage, how do you think they pay? Cheerios?
Its your opinion they are pathetic, not reality, as 85% of Canadians don't agree with you. And 90% of them support our system.
@RustyIronloins actually I have never paid more than $1200.00 a year for healthcare and sometimes even less , unless you are adding the payments that your employer is paying to the government. Your numbers seem to be a huge exaggeration. That sounds more like you are paying for a family of 4 or 5 if that is how much is taken off of your paycheque. I also see that madhabber was trolling you , he came back to try and troll me too . madhabber actually scrubs toilets and washes floors at Pfizer.
@whispersofglory I think that is her point. If the market were allowed to function in healthcare, then there would be no waiting lists at all. There's no waiting list for groceries. Healthcare could be the same as that. Our current system forces people to choose between their health, lives, finances, and families. Even the broken US system doesn't do that.
@whispersofglory If you didn't know, the law in every province in Canada (other than QB) prohibits us from buying health insurance for procedures that the government (allegedly) covers. You cannot use your own money to purchase healthcare. You will be punished by the government if you try. Think about that. If you were in pain awaiting surgery, the government will punish you if you pay a doctor with your own money to perform the necessary surgery. We live under an immoral system.
Americans lower their prices, but gouvernement based countries don't have more prices more than it "really cost". Why? Well technically the hospitals isn't "profitable" the gouvernement gives the money that the surgery needs to be done like; instruments, income for the people doing the surgery, electricity(to be precisely). But in a private hospital they make you client pay: all as above + profits. Since it's "company", so gouvernement countries have lower prices and as always, totally free.
I hate how canadians always mention free health care in almost every debate about canada versus the United States yet it seems that canada's health care system needs reforming, and canadians seem to be going into the United States for health care. canada = hypocrisy. canada does give better access to health care and does have better health care for lower level needs but when major health problems happen canadians would be better reforming health care, and/or getting more health car funding.
@imperatorcaesar100 Very, very, very few Canadians go south for care. Google the study Phantoms in the Snow, which calls it a myth that many Canadians go to the U.S. for care. Not to mention the 750,000 Americans that went abroad to other countries, including Canada, for less expensive care, in 2007. That number was predicted to go into the millions in 2010.
@FIXWCBCANADA Or, you could look at the majority of cases in Canada, like my mother:
Diagnosed with a bowel obstruction which was guaranteed to be lethal, taken by ambulance from our small rural community to a major centre capable of handling the surgery two hours away, and was under the knife inside eight hours. That was 20 years ago - this week, in fact - and she's still alive and living life.
@RustyIronloins Yes, and I, through my taxes, pay for the mothers of other people. I have no problem with that. Of course there's cost to it, it's just that the cost is divided amongst the population so that no one person has to pay it alone. I've rarely heard of any Canadians that have a problem with that. Those that require it, get it, because that's who we are. We do not leave the best or the least of us to die when we can help.
@DarthBismarck well, start reading the comments in this thread... there are a lot of us who have been screwed by our single payer system. Look at CanLii.org and find the SCC case "Chaoulli" and look at the stats re: our healthcare system. We are the ONLY developed country in the world that prohibits private insurance and a parallel private system. Even socialist`` Sweden, France, UK, Norway, etc. permit that. The only countries in the world like Canada are N.Korea and Cuba.
@RustyIronloins Then go to America for your health care if you have major concerns. Personally, I'm quite happy with the state of things up here, and I see as yet no reason to change my mind. Or petition your local MP, show them the figures to support your claim, and have him take it to the Legislature. This is a democracy, after all - such things are permitted.
@DarthBismarck I hope you realize that there are not two systems for healthcare delivery in the world: Canada or the US. I do not want an American style system in Canada. I want a good system that works. Both America and Canada are broken. Both are unsustainable and unfair. Canada has very poor hospitals, poor services, and healthcare rationing. The US has runaway costs compared to GDP, and it's only getting worse...
Canada does have a mixed system as proven by this piece. 90 percent of Canadians live within 200 miles of the American border. If you want to wait; stay in Canada and wait. If you have money, go to the States and get yourself operated on. What's the big deal? Oh, the opposite is not the case. If you're and American with no health insurance and no money...you're screwed. If you're a rich junky like John Phillips or David Crosby you get a new liver.
As dbearTO pointed out already, you can't rely on a single anecdotal piece of evidence to make sweeping conclusions about the whole system. It's a logical fallacy.
I've personally had good quality care for free in Canada, but I'm sure others are not as happy, just as some aren't in the U.S.
The real evidence must come from the overall makeup of the system and data. There, the Canadian system is working well overall compared to the U.S. system.
Let me tell you my story in Canada: Friend broke his arm late at night. Rushed to hospital. Waited about a half hour in emergency room. He got a cast made up and we were out in about an hour and a half.
We didn't pay a dime.
How much would that have set you back in the U.S.?
After being destroyed completely in Canada, I called my physician in the USA and he told me he is now too specialized into his sub-specialty. Canadian physicians the opposite. They are "Jackass in all, a master of nothing!"
I really like that one guys explanation of the profit motive and how wealth is created through voluntary exchange which infers that wealth is destroyed through legalized plunder (as Bastiat would put it).
With all due respect to Cheryl Baxter and her medical problems, her story is not the definitive verdict on a health care system that services millions of people. Anecdotes are not data. There are just as many (and in absolute numbers more) sob stories from the States that tell the tale of people being mistreated by the American health care system.
The fact that Reason.TV put this out as an argument makes me question if they have much reason in them at all.
@dbearTO No one said that the American system is perfect, but they are pointing out that the imperfections in our system do not originate from the what little free market aspects we have and instead are the result of government intervention which overly promotes 3rd party payers and thus drives up costs and lowers quality. I agree that making a judgment based on a single case is not a very good way of promoting an argument, but I don't think this video was intended to be the 'debate ender'
@anryth Nor did I say that it was a "debate ender". Nevertheless, the video presents the free-market system as the solution to whatever problems Baxter had with the Canadian system. This does not follow. The fact that Baxter had a good outcome on her own dime says nothing in favor of reforming to a private health care system.
The fact that the faults in our system are not free-market based is stating the obvious, since we do not have a free-market health care system.
@anryth Moreover, the video makes (implicitly) the case for Baxter's story to be indicative of the entire system (just look at the title). This is a logical fallacy of over-generalization. In fact, data (as opposed to anecdotes) tells a very different "true tale" of the Canadian health care system.
My main point in the original comment was to note the irony of "Reason.tv" presenting an argument premised on a logical fallacy.
It must be offensive to Canadian taxpayers when some Americans call the Canadian healthcare system "free." I highly doubt that hard working Canadians who do work and get taxed will be flattered by that kind of idiotic statement.
This is why it's hard for me to support the state-run healthcare system in the US. Soem freeloaders just aren't willing to do the work, pay taxes, and help support the state-run system. They are just like those losers in Greece. Canadians're more responsible.
2002; He is on a waiting list for surgery by Dr. Buwembo…However, he states he is unable to perform many of his daily living activities, yard work, snow removal and leisure activities…
2004 the Appellant underwent surgery for L5-S1 discectomy, L5-S1 foraminotomy, L4-S1 pedicle screw fixation, L4-S1 posterolateral fusion with autogenous bone graft.
In Canada you get LONG WAITS, due to rationed medical care;
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game.
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthsystem, yet 85% of Canadian public doesn't know it;
@FIXWCBCANADA People don't know how they are treated after leaving a hospital?? Do you know how fucking stupid you sound??
What's like to be a total troll who doesn't know the difference between workman's comp and provincial payers, and continues to spout the same bullshit numbers that are completely made up??
All propaganda. The World Health Organization rated Canada: 30st for country's with best healthcare while US: is 37st. Another thing they left out is that if a Canadian has to go to US for surgery Canadian healthcare pays 65% of the cost plus travel reimbursement. Also according to the 2006 Transparency List, Canada is 9th in the least-corrupt government list while US is 20th. Canada unemployment is 7.6%, while US is 10.1%. Just another Republican propaganda film. Canada is superior to US by far
@dabeaner12345 what is the population of Canada? Around 30 million if I'm not mistaken? US has a population of over 300 million. Of course our unemployment rate is going to be higher. Those stats are not accurate. Also if Canada is so Superior to the US, why are so many Canadians coming over to the States to get various treatments? Btw. US has one of the highest per capita GDP in the world, so we are the ones with more superiority.
@alber12111 A. Unemployment is measure as a % of population, population size does not matter. And its a MYTH that many Canadians go south for care. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Americans that go abroad for less expensive care, including CANADA. And you do not have the highest GDP per capita in the world.
who cares about who denied me care,,,,,,what difference is it....I am being denied care for a spinal injury...is it Universal Health care for all Canadians or not? obviously NOT;
@FIXWCBCANADA What difference does it make?? BECAUSE YOU ARE UNDER WORKMAN'S COMP NOT OUR UNIVERSAL PROVINCIAL SYSTEM. It is a BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE. YOu are just too fucking stupid to know it.
@MadHabber93 .....DUH,, is that not discrimination? Human Rights Complaint? Duh? are you a MORON or what?
I bet you work in the field of medicine or insurance, as you have provided so much disinformation it's unbelievable;
Universal Health Care in Canada is a BIG LIE, you pay into it through taxes all your life but when you need help, MEDICAL CARE, you are blatantly denied timely diagnose and timely medical care;
@FIXWCBCANADA I provide misinformation?? Bwah hahahaha. Everything I provide I can back up from reputable sources, unlike where you pull out your info from.....YOUR ASS!
Another anecdotal workman comp story from 2002...means fuck all sunshine.
85% of Canadians love their system, FACT!!! Idiot!!!
just as a CANADIAN I just don't get it,...WHY are the patients who need surgery being DENIED the UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE they so desperately need. Canadians are so ignorant and oblivious to whats happening right under their noses it's rather sickening and down-right FRAUDULENT; and PROVES that CANADIAN'S PAY TAXES AND GET NO MEDICAL CARE,then are forced to go to were-ever;out of country because of all the CORRUPTION, try paying off your doctor in CANADA if you need medical care,
FIXWCB is a fucking lunatic that is treated under Workman's comp NOT our Universal system. Not to mention he's a hypochondriac that no doc wants to treat. 90% of Canadians FULLY support our Universal sytem. Facts that FIXWCB continues to ignore and just present his useless opinion.
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient - claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game.
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthcare'system, yet most of the public don;t know it
The Canada Health Act Discriminates Against Injured
Workers By Excluding Them From "Access To Health Services Without Financial Or Other Barriers" By Excluding "Any Health Services That A Person Is Entitled To And Eligible For Under Any Act Of The legislature Of A Province That Relates To Workers' Or Workmen's Compensation" And That This Leaves Injured Workers Vulnerable To Wrongdoing By The Workers Compensation System
@FIXWCBCANADA NO ONLY THE POOR GET DENY. YOU GIMP GIPSY, HURRY UP AND GET CANCER AND DIE AND SAVE THE REST OF THE TAX PAYERS DOLLARS. OH LISTEN TO YOU HOW YOU WHINE. GET A GUN AND PUT IT IN YOUR MOUTH YOU BIG FUCKIN BABY.NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU BECAUSE YOU SIT THEIR IN YOUR OWN SHIT FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELVE. GET YOUR ANCESTORS AND GET THE FUCK OUT YOU BIG BITCH. CRY CRY CRY THATS ALL YOU DO. GROW A SPROT. OH WAIT YOU CANT BECAUSE YOUR HANDICAPP. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient - claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game.
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthcare'system, yet most of the public doesn't know it
Quit the illusion, USA! Your healthcare system is number 37, just in front of Slovenia according to the WHO's international rankings.
The UK, with it's NHS is number 19, and France, also a universal system financed by state health insurance is NUMBER ONE. Lagging behind, huh?
Thus, this proves nothing... infact it's crap. Just because you happen to have the experts living in your country doesn't automatically mean everything is going to go in the other direction if you adopt a state-run system.
ALL YOU FUCKIN CRY BABIES THAT WHINE ABOUT OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM SHOULD PACK UP YOUR BELONGINGS AND MOVE TO RUSSIA, IRAN, OR CHINA, AND SEE HOW MUCH THEY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS. YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK.
@FIXWCBCANADA people like you are nothing but peasants. always with your hands out wanting more. what wrong, the squeak wheel isnt getting any grease.
@dano132454 ....someday you will suffer like the rest of us and then you will sing a different tune;
You might be going through a green light when some drunk t-bones you, then you will find out for yourself how corrupt everything is; Take a long hard suck on your asshole shitface;
@FIXWCBCANADA ingnorace is bliss, asshole. unlike you i have insurance on myself. unlike you i know WCB isnt long term disability.unlike you i find out how things work.healthcare isnt free in canada.Its assholes like you think that the government owes them. guess what misdiagnosis happens every where not just canada.Shit heads like you dont take time to understand how things work, you just assume.now your pissed off thinking the whole world is corrupt.YOUR AN IDIOT.
@dano132454 ...doesnt matter what kind of insurance you have, they all deny;
The Canada Health Act Discriminates Against Injured
Workers By Excluding Them From "Access To Health Services Without Financial Or Other Barriers" By Excluding "Any Health Services That A Person Is Entitled To And Eligible For Under Any Act Of The legislature Of A Province That Relates To Workers' Or Workmen's Compensation" And That This Leaves Injured Workers Vulnerable To Wrongdoing By The Workers Compensation System
When you are injured on the job, you lose your right to Canadian Universal Health Care;
You are then subjected to the Workers Compensation "Culture of Denial"
This adversarial system is all about DENIAL; With stereo-typical medical commentary, everything and anything will be used to deny HELP for your work injury;
False medical info will be placed into your medical file and when you PROTEST, you will be labelled a malingering faker then a threat; Then comes the chemical-straightjacket;
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient - claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthcare system, yet most of the public doesn't know it.
@amcmillan2008 Fixwcb is a chronic liar. Published wait times are available on line for proof. For example, in the province of Ontario, 90% of patients receive Lumbar surgery in 208 days, with the more serious cases being done first with far less of a wait time. No is denied. Another lie. His 8 to 12 year claims is pure and utter B.S.
For his low technology claim, more B.S. Any major Canadian hospital is equipped with the same technology you would find in any major U.S. hospital.
Yep, some people don't care about the cost. It's you're health. You can't put a price on it.
OmegaRage 2 days ago
canada and the usa both suck when it comes to healthcare. canada. oh its free but you will have to whait. usa. will take you right away but then we will take your house. so in canada you can die before they get to you and in the usa you can die if you cant afford healthcare. i dont no if this is true or not but france is the place to go for good healtcare. i was watching eh michael moore movie and france looked so ahead of the times and they put healtcare frist. we can learn from france.
986tornado 1 month ago
@986tornado
'so in canada you can die before they get to you"
Too bad that statement is horseshit.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@986tornado, you're right with your analysis of the US & Canada, but I disagree with your conclusion. France's system is facing collapse in the coming years, and it will no longer be able to get enough taxes to support it.
In this clip, John Stossel explains in detail how the US system's costs got where they are, and how they can be fixed:
/watch?v=dzm5jhguYJ0
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder Your using Stossel as your source?? Yeah, no bias there.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, don't tell me he's biased, show me where he's wrong.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder Not enough character space on youtube for that.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, you can send a private message, or at least tell me 1 thing he got wrong.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@Liberty He paints a very biased report particularly on Canadian healthcare, cherry picking stories, using highly biased opinions from Sally Pipes & Dr. David Gratzer. He paints with a broad brush based on extremely misleading information. He also is hypothesizing that a 100% true market will magically bring the costs of all healthcare down. He doesn't mention that, even if costs dropped by half in the U.S., millions could still not afford it. Half of REALLY expensive is still REALLY EXPENSIVE.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, the fact that it takes 6+ months to get MRI is not an opinion, it's fact. And it's a dissaster for a rich country to have something like that.
Healthcare insurance plans in the US can drop by a lot more than half if refomrs are passed, and Medicaid can then easily pick up the slack.
The cost part is explained here: /watch?v=EL53vVKrsyw (you can skip to 4 minutes into it)
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder No, its not fact. Avg. posted wait times for NON-urgent MRI's in the Province of Ontario for example is less than 30 days. Immediately for urgent cases. I know this, because I LIVE HERE. I waited all of 10 days for one for a sinus infection. Hence why it is B.S., cherry picking crap.
Very few qualify for Medicaide. There are Millions in the U.S. that can't afford insurance premiums, so how can they afford healthcare treatment costs, even if they dropped? They can't!!
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, well it may be ok in Ontario, but:
"People in Victoria have even longer waits of 11 to 12 months, according to spokeswoman Suzanne Germain." Source: Nanaimo Daily News.
Overall it's a problem with the Canadian system, so there's no point denying this.
And if American healthcare insurance policy costs drop to less than half, there will be a lot less demand for Medicaid too.
There are common sense solutions to all this. People just need to be pragmatic about it.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder Victoria is a small city, isolated from the rest of the country. Again, cherry picking a newspaper article is hardly strong evidence of an entire country. Stossel would have you believe that, nor does he mention that we don't wait for urgent MRI's or surgery. He conveniently leaves that out. In addition, 90% support our system and would never want the for profit system of the U.S. Canadians are fed up of the lies & misinformation to further the U.S. right wing agenda
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, I'm sure that small town doesn't have a 10 month wait for a "non urgent" car service. Why should they have to wait a year for an MRI?
People's opinions in surveys is skewed in so many ways, that it becomes meaningless.
The issue here is how to improve the availability of care in both countries, and not squabble over statistics.
You guys need need to free up your public system so it can look after the poor, instead of trying to encourage everyone to use it.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder Your comparing car service to healthcare? And yes, just ignore poll after poll after poll showing STRONG support to our system.
Don't squabble over statistics, yet you choose to list the extreme wait times for less than 5 % of the populaiton vs. the averages for non-urgent care?
And do you mean improve the availability to those that want to jump the que based on their ability to pay vs. their need of care?
In Canada, we value equal access based on need not wallet size.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, YES, I'm comparing MRI services to a car service. An auto garage has equipment that's more expensive than an MRI machine, so how come garages are so readily available everywhere?
Also, they have over 10 McDonalds outlets in that town. Those cost $3m+.
Doesn't it seem a bit odd that a town that can spend $30 million on burgers, doesn't have the money for a few MRI machines?
Please take a step back from this all and see the absurdity here.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder Because becoming a mechanic is far easier than a doctor or an MRI tech. Not to mention, you are cherry picking one bad spot and then painting with a broad brush for an entire country. Kind of reminds me of Stossel.
YOu also have to take into account the geography of our country and the location you are cherry picking. Victoria, although beautiful, is isolated with a small population. Where would they rather live Vancouver or Victoria. Private care won't change that.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, Takes 4 years to qualify as a radiographer, not that different than a mechanic.
And if they are so isolated, how can they afford to build 10 McDonalds outlets?
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@Liberty Again, comparing apples to oranges makes no sense. We are also short on radiographers across the country. So MRI's aren't the issue, running them is. More of them won't matter if you don't have the qualified people to run them. If you are in demand, where do you go? Vancouver, Toronto, Calgary, Montreal, etc. or isolate yourself in Victoria? There are other issues than just cost of an MRI. Again, I waited 10 days, in a province of low wait times, but let's talk about Victoria?
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder The fact is, we don't wait for urgent or semi-urgent care. My colleague waited no time for her MRI when her achillies heel ruptured. Our friends 19 year old daughter had 2 MRI's the same day when showing signs of stroke. Why didn't Stossel use them in his biased report? Why aren't we discussing my city of London, Ontario where I waited 10 days, or my sister 14 days? Why not ask the question, if they get these wait times in Ontario under a public system, why can't Victoria?
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93 Why not ask the question, how long does one wait in this utopia free market system when they can't afford the MRI, let alone the operation needed that the MRI diagnosed?
Cherry picking wait times, stories, etc. is misleading hack journalism from Stossel. I used to like him. Now the he's with Faux News, ooops Fox News, he's turned into a biased shill.
I've only just begun here, that is why I didn't want to bother responding to you.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, you're focusing on the small details, I only used Victoria as an example.
They can afford 10 McDonalds outlets, but are short of MRIs. WHY?
If you dog deep, you'll find that there's restrictions on radiographer training numbers too.
Industries that are run privatley tend to have an abundance of services.
If you simply gave those who can't afford it and needs it an "MRI voucher", there would be no queue.
They'd go to a private clininc of their choice, end of story.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder Small details??? Those are all major factors. Victoria's MRI wait times used to be 13 weeks just a couple of years ago, they are now 30 weeks on average. Why?? Just blaming it on 'socialized care' is not the answer.
To say there would be no que based on a voucher is meaningless if their aren't enough numbers to go around. MRI recommendations are going through the roof. Many times, unnecessarily. That is a far bigger 'small' detail.
What about the surgery costs??
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, I'm not saying privatisation is a magical answer, I'm just trying to show you a different approach.
When people need to eat, they go out and buy what they want with their own money. They don't queue to get a Government allocated food ration (USSR style).
The poor get an allowance / food stamps and they use it the way they see fit. Private operators run supermarkets & compete on price & quality.
Healthcare would have alot less problems if it ran along these lines.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder To say they would have a lot less problems just doesn't hold true to real world experience. The U.S. has the most privitisation on the planet, yet have many, many problems.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, half of US healthcare spending is by the Government, and almost 100% of spending is regulated by the Government. This doesn't exactly qualify as a free market. That's the whole point of the Stossel video.
The US had an abundence of health services and they were very cheap before all these Government agencies were set up.
Both systems have some serious problems, and both could do with LESS central control to fix them.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder I never said it was a total free market. But its still the most free on the planet. What Stossel fails to address that its a theory that prices would drop, which they wouldn't, as U.S. docs already complain about what Medicare pays and that's already less than the private market. And you and Stossel think this free market utopia will drop prices?? Again, even if it did, half or more than half of unaffordable for millions is STILL unaffordable.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, Lasik & plastic surgery costs have been dropping for years. Without any regulation or subsidies.
How do you explain that?
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder That's true. But it still costs as low as a grand for a 30 second procedure (lasik, had it done). But again, Millions can't afford that luxury procedure that has no bearing on one's longetivity. Plastic surgery still costs thousands upon thousands of dollars. You can tell who all the regular, average people are. They are all ugly because they can't afford it. Do you really want a system where only the above average income earners can afford life saving or altering surgery?
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, the point was about bringing down costs.
Giving birth in the US costs about $20,000 if you pay out of pocket.
Do you not think that if private hospitals were freed up from all the regulations mandates, they would be able to bring down that cost?
The US & Canada (and the rest of the world) could easily take care of the needy among them if they stopped encouraging EVERYONE to depend on these centralised systems, and just gave poor people a hand UP when needed.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder I find it funny that you say we are 'dependant' on healthcare like its a bad thing. Well of course we are...we want good timely access to quality healthcare without the burden of cost... ANY cost getting in the way. Yes, we encourage people to catch disease early, as it costs less. That's what will bring healthcare costs down, not a free market.
So tell me, what mandates are in place that burdens any hospital and doctor to charge $20 grand for giving birth?
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder Do you have any clue how much long term, chronic disease cost to treat? So if you get one of them, too bad for you. You can't pay, even in this supposed cheap free market healthcare, too bad??
Stossel advocates no insurance, so its every man for himself. The system in the U.S. is already TOO much like that, and look what its getting. Hundreds of thousands bankrupt every year, Millions forgoing needed treatment due to cost, and how many dying because of it?
MadHabber93 1 month ago
@MadHabber93, he doesn't advocate 'no insurance', he want's high deductible insurance only.
If insurance in the US covered extreme cases only, like cancer, chronic illness etc, it would cost a fraction of the current charges. Probably $200-300 / month.
People would pay cash for most procedures, and only use insurance for bills over (say) $5,000.
Those below a certain income would then easily be covered by Medicaid.
LibertyDownUnder 1 month ago
@LibertyDownUnder That's what Peter Schiff keeps repeating. Anything government touches and gets its nose in, the more messed up it becomes. People think that keeping the status quo a miracle will come and fix it. Oh Yeah!!!! It's the same story that Jesus will return. BUNCH OF SHEEPLE.
bmw803 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
OxfordLearningDylan 1 month ago
I wonder if this dumb bitch bought that necklace and earrings with the money you paid her to say this.
DBDMotorsports 1 month ago
And I have to laugh at this airhead who went to Oklahoma. "You're just a number" to Canadian doctors. lol And in the American health care system you're not???? And dealing with the American insurance death panels over the phone tryinig to get a payout? I'm sure they give lots and lots of tender loving care! LMAO Doctors are great in Canada. And, unlike in the US, if you don't like your doctor, you can shop around. And get a second opinion! lol Sorry America, you lose.....
temporaryheaven 1 month ago
Pure propaganda. FEWER people are going abroad for health care than they were. This is not just a Canadian phenomenon. It's world-wide. MANY Americans leave the US for health care too. And I laugh at Americans who come to Canada, have to wait a bit, and then complain. The problem is that they have to PAY for their Canadian health care - we don't. Furthermore, are Americans going to try and tell us that they don't have to wait in their system?.....Ever been to an emergency room in the US?....lol
temporaryheaven 1 month ago
watch this video about the great Canadian Universal health care system
Fighting for Justice - My Story of medical malpractice and judicial abuse
true eugenics depopulation by the medical system
FIXWCBCANADA 1 month ago
This woman is the exception, not the rule. My sister waited 2 months for her hip replacement, my father waited 4 months, and has had both hips done with one done twice. All she had to do was call another surgeon to find out their wait time instead of wasting thousands of dollars going south.
MadHabber93 1 month ago
this woman represents many Canadians who have been denied medical care in Canada and have been forced to travel to medical tourism for relief;
this video proves Canadians are being subjected to rationing of health care;
go to medical tourism sites and you will find testimonials from other Canadians
who have been denied medical care under the Universal Health Care Act;
FIXWCBCANADA 1 month ago
I mean canadians know, they shouldn't brag about it. I have insurance and here u don't wait, and te doctors here are efficients.
Do you know that moat of the Canadian doctors work in the US as well? We paid more rather than having a fix paid from the gov of Canada. Ofcourse there's ppl here who can't afford to have a healthcare but that's why we have 3rd party systems for ppl w low resources to get insurance, rather have that and get help than dying in a waiting room and have a "dunno" answer.
jvrdlc 2 months ago
@jvrdlc Wow, you waited a bit in Ottawa?? I waited in Dallas for 15 hours with many others. Many in great pain. THe ER was filthy & smelt like piss. Do I conclude that an entire system or every hospital is the same across the U.S. because of it? No, as that would be STUPID.
Our systems 'sucks' yet 90% of us support it, with satisfaction rates of 85%, and almost none of us would want the for profit insurance run system of the U.S.
MadHabber93 2 months ago
@jvrdlc "and te doctors here are efficients." What language is this??
And no 'moat' of our doctors don't work in the States. Our docs are paid by fee for service, with many billing well into the 6 and 7 figures. They are the highest paid profession in Canada.
Why were you in the ER in Ottawa? You see, in our system, its based on need NOT ability to pay. Millions of your countrymen forgo needed care EVERY year because they can't afford it. THe ultimate wait time in the U.S. FOREVER
MadHabber93 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Canadian healthcare is a straight BS. They brag it to the sky how great it is lol
I was in a hospital in Canada Ottawa with a friend and fuckk you have to bring your blankets and pillow and an alarm bc you van stay in the waiting room for HRS! its horrible. Then u go in and get w a suprised that the doctor doesn't give a fuck about you. And the last 4 times I went they told her they dunno wut it is. She went once to get a puffer, inhaler and it took us 5hrs. The system sucks. I mean canadians k
jvrdlc 2 months ago
Canadian healthcare is a straight BS. They brag it to the sky how great it is lol
I was in a hospital in Canada Ottawa with a friend and fuckk you have to bring your blankets and pillow and an alarm bc you van stay in the waiting room for HRS! its horrible. Then u go in and get w a suprised that the doctor doesn't give a fuck about you. And the last 4 times I went they told her they dunno wut it is. She went once to get a puffer, inhaler and it took us 5hrs. The system sucks. I mean canadians k
jvrdlc 2 months ago
@jvrdlc I laughed at what you wrote. It was so general, it was meaningless. You had to wait for "HRS" "It was horrible" "doctor doesn't give a fuck about you" "they dunno wut is is". lol 5 hrs for a puffer??? Wow, maybe you shouldn't have brought the pillow. You obviously missed your turn...Funny though. Everything you just described is true of American hospitals too. Only we don't have to pay. Best system in the world
temporaryheaven 1 month ago
@temporaryheaven best system in the world? based on who? canadians? maybe.. no system is perfect bud. go google it and see the huge flaws ur poor system has.. theres a lot of complains about the canadian system, heard from canadians in Ottawa.
jvrdlc 1 month ago
@jvrdlc Based on comparing it to the US system. We are well aware of the flaws that crop up sometimes, and we are always improving it. However, the crap we hear in the American media about the "flaws" is ridiculous. I live in one of the largest cities in Canada, and I have never had your experience. That includes my extended family. Furthermore, I am READY to wait if I have to. My first-class health care is free. It's ALWAYS there for me. And I control it. Not an insurance company.
temporaryheaven 1 month ago
@temporaryheaven dont hate on the vid, truth hurts, like i said no system is unique. and why would i lie, i was there for more than 5 f hours for a Puffer yeah, more, got inside the doctor left us for 45 mins there then comes back with a dunno answer and make us go somewhere else. yea 5 times or more i was in a hospital. so no TO ME not flawless at all. to you prob. since its free, why would u complain right? take it..
jvrdlc 1 month ago
@jvrdlc First of all, why did you go to an ER for a puffer? Secondly, it may have been busy there, it depends what time of day it was, and when the doctor takes you in, he still has several other rooms where patients are waiting for him. I don't get your story. You went for a puffer, and the doctor says "i dunno". He dunno what? What a puffer was??? And the vid is ridiculous. So biased. "Everybody was friendly" As if in Canada all the doctors are assholes. Sure. Her story is not the norm.
temporaryheaven 1 month ago
love all this propoganda BS that American news shows about Canadian healthcare, poking a a country that provides a longer lifespan for its citizens by at least 3 years longer than the average American, 85%+ of Canadian are satisfied with our healthcare, don`t believe the lies of waiting 4-6 months to see a specialist etc etc, if you`ve got a serious disease or whatever you`re seen ad treated right away. Find it arrogant for the American public to criticize another country before looking at u
iLuvBarRefaeli 2 months ago
@iLuvBarRefaeli Aboslute B.S.. if you never had to undergo a minor surgery in Canada, please don't talk out of your ass.
toastm4n 2 months ago
Hard to make an argument on numbers because the Candian Health care system certainly doesn't want to admit publicly that we are losing doctors. I know we have lost several over the years and the city is about 100,000 size. Maybe more telling though is that if you check many of the richer Candians including some leading politicians have gone south for medical care. Chretien, Mulroney and Williams to name 3. Our system is not sustainable and I can say that because I grew up in premedicare Canada.
RedC53 3 months ago
@RedC53 A. Its a myth that many doctors or patients go south for care. In fact, the last 8 years has seen more docs returning B. Cretein and Mulroney NEVER went to the States for care. And Williams went for a procedure pioneered in Toronto and Winnipeg, to have it done in Miami in the middle of winter where he owns his posh condo. One rich politician going south for care means nothing. D. Our system,, according to a Harvard economist, is more than sustainable.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
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Madhabber93 is really crazy dropping f-bombs in e-mails getting called out on his contradiction , trying to change the argument ,making up stories and getting called out on that and his spelling . People just stop responding to a troll like him. He is trying to insult your intelligence with his lies .A guy with a bankrupt vocabulary like his would only be scrubbing toilets and washing floors at Pfizer.The guy is a poser and he exposed himself with his lack of knowledge .
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
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Madhabber93 is real mad dropping f-bombs in e-mails getting called out on his contradiction , trying to change the argument ,making up stories and getting called out on that and his spelling . People just stop responding to a troll like him. He is trying to insult your intelligence with his lies .A guy with a bankrupt vocabulary like his would only be scrubbing toilets and washing floors at Pfizer.The guy is a poser and he exposed himself with his lack of knowledge .
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
Esmail fails to tell reason tv that our best and brightest medical students are lured to the U.S.A. by the higher salary offered to them . Canada needs to find better incentives for these guys to stay in canada to practice medicine. Seems every year we hear on newscasts that top american hospitals are here to recruit doctors and nurses and the promise of more money .
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
@kokanee2010a That was true in the 90's but not the last decade. In fact, more docs are returning to Canada from the U.S. then going over for the last 8 years. Even at its peak in the 90's, it still only represented 1% of those going over vs. the doctors that stay here. Docs in Canada have now become the highest paid profession in the country.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 are you trying to tell me I was hallucinating when i watched the news items? If youtube had newsitems from our newscasts I could prove it to you . Maybe the people coming back home to canada that you have heard of just couldn't cut it in the U.S.A. , I liken it to be like the nhl draft , the people you know of are the Jani Rita's of the medical world. I also said our best and brightest I didn't mention a percentage .
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
@kokanee2010a Your going by a newscast?? Have you term the anecdotal evidence??
And the one's that did go are NOT necessarily the best, but the ones that wanted MORE money, or the illusion of more money.
But to actually prove it just google doctors returning to Canada.
Here's one article.
healthworkermigrationDOTcom/news/222-doctor-drain-turns-to-gain-physicians-move-north.html
MadHabber93 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 we gained 55 more doctors than what were leaving only in 2010? Does that take into account the 30 years of drain in previous years? , and I did say medical students as in health professionals that would include nurses also . Just under the article you tried to point out to me , I found this one "Canada Needs Foreign Doctors to Deal with Growing Shortages " so we are not out of this shortfall of 26.000 by a long shot. I noticed that number with a quick glance.
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
@kokanee2010a Where are you pulling your numbers from?? 30 years?? THe suppossed 'drain' started in the 90's, and never accounted more than 1% of the number of docs in Canada. Its a myth, pure and simple. And more docs coming back is more docs coming back. We also have more nurses per capita than the U.S. as well, not to mention they make great coin as well. We have a number in London, ON making 6 figures. Not to mention the U.S. has a doc shortage too. DO some research!!!
MadHabber93 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 it was in that same article where I saw that the difference between the doctors that come home from the usa was 55 more than graduated and went to the usa in 2010 , the link you proposed to send to me ,never worked so I googled in the key words and found an article . Go ahead and use the key words and you will find it. I am not making stuff up. and of course we are going to be ahead when you put it in per capita, USA has approximately ten times the population.
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
@kokanee2010a If you replaced an actual period for DOT, the link would work.
You also know doctors??? Have you head the term anecdotal evidence? I also know a number of doctors, I work in the PHarma industry, who have returned from the U.S. to practice again here. Again, your original premise that a flood of docs go south for care is a myth, with more doctors coming back than going over for nearly the last 10 years. It doesn't matter that its not a lot, it matters that your WRONG.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 you're mad that there is proof that I am right about what i have seen on tv and what I have read on the internet. You are trying to tell me that I am wrong that doctors and nurses are not going to the usa to work? Do you understand that these numbers do not even include the canadian students that go down to the usa to get their education . And after graduation they stay down there , we were only talking about the ones graduating from canadian university.
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
@kokanee2010a Your proof is SHIT. Saying you saw it on TV means FUCK ALL. You didn't prove anything. And the number that go down south for their education AGAIN, is small. And spare me on the spelling when you don't even capitalize or punctuate properly.
Now read this and educate yourself.
wwwDOTchsrfDOTca/Migrated/PDF/myth29_e.pdf
MadHabber93 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 I have only seen one year that more doctors have come back to canada than graduates going to the usa. That was 2010 , you have dismissed the 80's all together , but yes that was when we were first noticing the slow trickle of doctors going to the usa. I wont be responding to any more of your posts , you have contradicted yourself too many times and you can't spell so I don't think I am dealing with an educated person . read your own posts and not just the ones to me on here
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
@MadHabber93 I am getting my numbers from two internet articles both saying what I have tried to convey to you and I have remembered all the news items over the last 30 years saying as much .Also I know some of those doctors from my childhood that went down south to practice medicine and are still down there as far as I know . I saw one of the fathers of one of the doctors at my nieces wedding back in 2009 .anyway I am not going to try to convince you of the truth it is out there.
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
I don't know how you can make any judgement about this without reviewing this woman's medical records. My gut feeling is that doctors (who by the way are generally some of the most compassionate people in the world) probably felt that physical therapy was her best choice but she objected to the personal effort. That she got the work done at a for profit clinic doesn't surprise me, it merely shows that money will buy anything you want.
oceannavagator 3 months ago
People who are backers of the Medicare system in Canada (such as myself) need to finally stop vilifying these people who did go to the U.S. for treatment, because as I've personally experienced, and from the evidence has shown, our system is badly out of date, underfunded and bureaucratic. Its time for reform, and that might mean opening up some private hospitals. My sister had to wait 10 hours in the emergency room at the Ottawa General Hospital after she came in with a concussion...
Cnd1867 4 months ago
@Cnd1867 Opening up more private clinics, which is now happening, is pulling more and more docs away from the public system in order to make more money in the private sector. These docs now serve less people, while wait times would actually increase on the public side that the vast majority use.
And although unfortunate your sister waited 10 hours with a concussion, it could have been an extremely busy time. What do you think would happen with less docs in that hospital?
MadHabber93 4 months ago
Then rather than creating more bureaucracy like the Local Health Boards in Ontario, we should match the private sector salary of a doctor in the public sector. Pay them, what the market says they should be paid. Also I don't accept this notion that there would be a sudden rush to the private sector, because doctors now, know in the private sector there's a better chance of having more benefits, a bigger pension etc. You can't arbitrarily say they would switch without hesitation.
Cnd1867 3 months ago
@Cnd1867 Doctors are the highest paid profession by average in Canada right now. Many are making mid to upper 6 figures. Matching to the private industry is not necessary. For the sudden rush, it wouldn't be a sudden rush I agree, but if you look at what happened in Australia wait times would go up for the majority.
MadHabber93 3 months ago
Also, I love the "Canadians" that they hire to do these testimonies.....you know, the ones with the noticeable New York slant to their voices.
CanadianKory 4 months ago
As someone who has was born in Canada, lived there until they were 18, and has lived in the U.S. since 1995, I can honestly compare both countries insofar as the healthcare goes. Unlike in the States, Canadian citizens do not have to have a second mortgage on their homes to be able to afford medical care. The taxpayers contribute. When I moved here, I was on a prescription that, in Canada, cost me $5.00/dose. In the U.S. the EXACT SAME medication was about $150.00. Just one example of many.
CanadianKory 4 months ago
@rustyirons
I am in fact American,in pain ,in need of healthcare and can't afford it,while canadians
Can come here and go to the front of the line.
You have healthcare we have walletcare.
Insureance is socialism/communism just the
Worst most expensive kind of it that just screws you for a profit,sadly not enough
People here comprehend that.
whispersofglory 4 months ago
Albertans pay $4,416 per citizen per year for healthcare alone. Much of that money is poorly spent on bureaucracy and over-paid union employees. The provincial government intentionally rations surgical facilities to save money, which creates our wait lists. None of this information is controversial or hard to find. Strangely, there is no doctor shortage, there's a shortage of surgical facilities... and yet many think, contrary to fact, that a purely public system is the best choice...
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
@RustyIronloins There is no doctor shortage?? yes there is. And if there aren't enough docs for a single payer system, there won't be for a two tiered system. A two tiered system would pull valuable resources ie doctors& nurses from the public system that serves many to a private for profit system that serves the wealthier few. What will that do to the majority, actually increase the wait times for them. You also said that our system is unsustainable, yet its clear that it still is.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 The doctor shortage is somewhat fabricated. There is government rationing of surgical rooms. That's why there are waiting lists. If we had 4x the doctors it would not change that fact. If there were sufficient spaces, we could talk about a doctor shortage... but the fact is we have no evidence of a lack of doctors CAUSING wait lists because there are more than enough doctors for the available spaces. The problem is the governments' monopoies over healthcare delivery.
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
@RustyIronloins 15% don't have a family doc. Specialists have wait lists because they are getting too many patients referred to them. There's enough surgery time ( I work in a related industry) but what we need is better management of it. Bringing in a 2nd tier will only reduce wait times for the better off. Btw, I am part of the better off.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 You do not work in a "related industry"... sorry, you are too ignorant of the law and facts for that to be true. I work in the industry. I deal with these issues daily.
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
@RustyIronloins I work in Pharma and I'm in and out of Canadian hospitals everyday, including Alberta. What 'industry' do you work in.
Not to mention, there are private for profit clinics in Alberta providing service outside the public system. So I don't believe you are in the industry as you would know that.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@RustyIronloins And where is the evidence that our hospitals are very poor. Do you mean in quality? Our hospitals compare to any hospitals in the world, both in what they offer to healthcare outcomes. You are also incorrect that you can't pay for services with cash. There are people that do opt out of the provinical systems and pay cash for their services. The amish for example. Its not against any law to pay cash, but what's not allowed is to jump the que by paying cash to go first.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
@MadHabber93 Have you ever been outside of Canada? It's truly eye-opening. Our hospitals are pathetic.
From Alberta's "Health Care Protection Act" (CanLii.org)
2(1) No physician shall provide a surgical service in Alberta except in a public hospital or an approved surgical facility.
(2) No physician or dentist shall provide a major surgical service...in Alberta, except in a public hospital.
It is illegal to get medical care outside of the Gov monopoly with your own money.
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
@RustyIronloins I have been outside of Canada, about 20 different countries, where our healthcare outcomes, amenable mortality, cancer survival is near the top on the planet.
It is NOT illegal to pay cash for medical care in ANY province. New immigrants have NO coverage, how do you think they pay? Cheerios?
Its your opinion they are pathetic, not reality, as 85% of Canadians don't agree with you. And 90% of them support our system.
MadHabber93 4 months ago
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@RustyIronloins actually I have never paid more than $1200.00 a year for healthcare and sometimes even less , unless you are adding the payments that your employer is paying to the government. Your numbers seem to be a huge exaggeration. That sounds more like you are paying for a family of 4 or 5 if that is how much is taken off of your paycheque. I also see that madhabber was trolling you , he came back to try and troll me too . madhabber actually scrubs toilets and washes floors at Pfizer.
kokanee2010a 3 months ago
Wow big surprise,non life threatening surgeries being delayed Omg no way,
Guess they should give higher priority
To hip replacement,screw someone who
Needs bypass surgery her hip hurts.
whispersofglory 4 months ago
@whispersofglory I think that is her point. If the market were allowed to function in healthcare, then there would be no waiting lists at all. There's no waiting list for groceries. Healthcare could be the same as that. Our current system forces people to choose between their health, lives, finances, and families. Even the broken US system doesn't do that.
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
@whispersofglory If you didn't know, the law in every province in Canada (other than QB) prohibits us from buying health insurance for procedures that the government (allegedly) covers. You cannot use your own money to purchase healthcare. You will be punished by the government if you try. Think about that. If you were in pain awaiting surgery, the government will punish you if you pay a doctor with your own money to perform the necessary surgery. We live under an immoral system.
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
Americans lower their prices, but gouvernement based countries don't have more prices more than it "really cost". Why? Well technically the hospitals isn't "profitable" the gouvernement gives the money that the surgery needs to be done like; instruments, income for the people doing the surgery, electricity(to be precisely). But in a private hospital they make you client pay: all as above + profits. Since it's "company", so gouvernement countries have lower prices and as always, totally free.
hello12363062 4 months ago
I hate how canadians always mention free health care in almost every debate about canada versus the United States yet it seems that canada's health care system needs reforming, and canadians seem to be going into the United States for health care. canada = hypocrisy. canada does give better access to health care and does have better health care for lower level needs but when major health problems happen canadians would be better reforming health care, and/or getting more health car funding.
imperatorcaesar100 5 months ago
@imperatorcaesar100 Very, very, very few Canadians go south for care. Google the study Phantoms in the Snow, which calls it a myth that many Canadians go to the U.S. for care. Not to mention the 750,000 Americans that went abroad to other countries, including Canada, for less expensive care, in 2007. That number was predicted to go into the millions in 2010.
MadHabber93 5 months ago
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IN CANADA HERE IS WHAT AWAITS YOU WHEN YOU NEED SURGERY;
BUTCHERED BY DOCTORS LIKE DR. RICHARD AUSTIN WHO THE COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS / SURGEONS PROTECT; WATCH W5 IF U DON'T BELIEVE ME;
FIXWCBCANADA 5 months ago
IN CANADA HERE IS WHAT YOU GET;
2 YEARS 28 DOCTORS TO DIAGNOSE A SPINAL INJURY; BROKEN BACK;
5+ YEARS TO DIAGNOSE 2 SPINAL INJURY; THAT 6 ORTHO SURGEONS AND 3 NEUROSURGEONS MISSED;
30 MONTH WAIT FOR FIRST MRI;
18 MONTH WAIT LIST FOR 2ND MRI;
5 YEAR WAIT LIST FOR 3RD MRI;
CANADA'S UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE SYSTEM IS A BIG LIE;
FIXWCBCANADA 5 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA
A Day to diagnose my needed treatment, and got it that day.
My buddy's spinal injury diagnosed same day, surgery a few weeks later.
I waited 5 days for an MRI
Our friend got hers the same day with her ruptured achillies heel. Operated on right away.
FixWCB.........Canada's BIGGEST FUCKING LIAR on YOUTUBE.
Beartit69 5 months ago
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@Beartit69 .....IN CANADA HERE IS WHAT AWAITS YOU WHEN YOU NEED SURGERY;
BUTCHERED BY DOCTORS LIKE DR. RICHARD AUSTIN WHO THE COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS / SURGEONS PROTECT; WATCH W5 IF U DON'T BELIEVE ME;
FIXWCBCANADA 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@Beartit69 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IN CANADA HERE IS WHAT AWAITS YOU WHEN YOU NEED SURGERY;
BUTCHERED BY DOCTORS LIKE DR. RICHARD AUSTIN WHO THE COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS / SURGEONS PROTECT; WATCH W5 IF U DON'T BELIEVE ME;
FIXWCBCANADA 5 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA Or, you could look at the majority of cases in Canada, like my mother:
Diagnosed with a bowel obstruction which was guaranteed to be lethal, taken by ambulance from our small rural community to a major centre capable of handling the surgery two hours away, and was under the knife inside eight hours. That was 20 years ago - this week, in fact - and she's still alive and living life.
Oh, and it was no charge from beginning to end.
DarthBismarck 4 months ago
@DarthBismarck um... healthcare is not without charge... there were charges. Lots of charges. It's just that other people had to pay for your mother.
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
@RustyIronloins Yes, and I, through my taxes, pay for the mothers of other people. I have no problem with that. Of course there's cost to it, it's just that the cost is divided amongst the population so that no one person has to pay it alone. I've rarely heard of any Canadians that have a problem with that. Those that require it, get it, because that's who we are. We do not leave the best or the least of us to die when we can help.
DarthBismarck 4 months ago
@DarthBismarck well, start reading the comments in this thread... there are a lot of us who have been screwed by our single payer system. Look at CanLii.org and find the SCC case "Chaoulli" and look at the stats re: our healthcare system. We are the ONLY developed country in the world that prohibits private insurance and a parallel private system. Even socialist`` Sweden, France, UK, Norway, etc. permit that. The only countries in the world like Canada are N.Korea and Cuba.
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
@RustyIronloins Then go to America for your health care if you have major concerns. Personally, I'm quite happy with the state of things up here, and I see as yet no reason to change my mind. Or petition your local MP, show them the figures to support your claim, and have him take it to the Legislature. This is a democracy, after all - such things are permitted.
DarthBismarck 4 months ago
@DarthBismarck I hope you realize that there are not two systems for healthcare delivery in the world: Canada or the US. I do not want an American style system in Canada. I want a good system that works. Both America and Canada are broken. Both are unsustainable and unfair. Canada has very poor hospitals, poor services, and healthcare rationing. The US has runaway costs compared to GDP, and it's only getting worse...
RustyIronloins 4 months ago
She wouldn't need surgery if she wasn't that f--king fat!
TheArceus12345 6 months ago
This video is an advertisement for timely medical, not a policy argument
cardorock 6 months ago
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@cardorock .......IN CANADA HERE IS WHAT AWAITS YOU WHEN YOU NEED SURGERY;
BUTCHERED BY DOCTORS LIKE DR. RICHARD AUSTIN WHO THE COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS / SURGEONS PROTECT; WATCH W5 IF U DON'T BELIEVE ME;
FIXWCBCANADA 5 months ago
Canada does have a mixed system as proven by this piece. 90 percent of Canadians live within 200 miles of the American border. If you want to wait; stay in Canada and wait. If you have money, go to the States and get yourself operated on. What's the big deal? Oh, the opposite is not the case. If you're and American with no health insurance and no money...you're screwed. If you're a rich junky like John Phillips or David Crosby you get a new liver.
drmodestoesq 6 months ago
As dbearTO pointed out already, you can't rely on a single anecdotal piece of evidence to make sweeping conclusions about the whole system. It's a logical fallacy.
I've personally had good quality care for free in Canada, but I'm sure others are not as happy, just as some aren't in the U.S.
The real evidence must come from the overall makeup of the system and data. There, the Canadian system is working well overall compared to the U.S. system.
Spudst3r 6 months ago
Let me tell you my story in Canada: Friend broke his arm late at night. Rushed to hospital. Waited about a half hour in emergency room. He got a cast made up and we were out in about an hour and a half.
We didn't pay a dime.
How much would that have set you back in the U.S.?
Spudst3r 6 months ago
After being destroyed completely in Canada, I called my physician in the USA and he told me he is now too specialized into his sub-specialty. Canadian physicians the opposite. They are "Jackass in all, a master of nothing!"
drkamischild 7 months ago
@drkamischild so that knee specialist my friend saw is also a Brain surgeon?
Thanato26 6 months ago
I really like that one guys explanation of the profit motive and how wealth is created through voluntary exchange which infers that wealth is destroyed through legalized plunder (as Bastiat would put it).
anryth 7 months ago
With all due respect to Cheryl Baxter and her medical problems, her story is not the definitive verdict on a health care system that services millions of people. Anecdotes are not data. There are just as many (and in absolute numbers more) sob stories from the States that tell the tale of people being mistreated by the American health care system.
The fact that Reason.TV put this out as an argument makes me question if they have much reason in them at all.
dbearTO 7 months ago
@dbearTO No one said that the American system is perfect, but they are pointing out that the imperfections in our system do not originate from the what little free market aspects we have and instead are the result of government intervention which overly promotes 3rd party payers and thus drives up costs and lowers quality. I agree that making a judgment based on a single case is not a very good way of promoting an argument, but I don't think this video was intended to be the 'debate ender'
anryth 7 months ago
@anryth Nor did I say that it was a "debate ender". Nevertheless, the video presents the free-market system as the solution to whatever problems Baxter had with the Canadian system. This does not follow. The fact that Baxter had a good outcome on her own dime says nothing in favor of reforming to a private health care system.
The fact that the faults in our system are not free-market based is stating the obvious, since we do not have a free-market health care system.
dbearTO 7 months ago
@anryth Moreover, the video makes (implicitly) the case for Baxter's story to be indicative of the entire system (just look at the title). This is a logical fallacy of over-generalization. In fact, data (as opposed to anecdotes) tells a very different "true tale" of the Canadian health care system.
My main point in the original comment was to note the irony of "Reason.tv" presenting an argument premised on a logical fallacy.
dbearTO 7 months ago
@dbearTO I would disagree and say the data supports Reason.tv's position. Unless of course your going by the deliberately skewed UN statistics.
anryth 7 months ago
It must be offensive to Canadian taxpayers when some Americans call the Canadian healthcare system "free." I highly doubt that hard working Canadians who do work and get taxed will be flattered by that kind of idiotic statement.
This is why it's hard for me to support the state-run healthcare system in the US. Soem freeloaders just aren't willing to do the work, pay taxes, and help support the state-run system. They are just like those losers in Greece. Canadians're more responsible.
ttiiyy 7 months ago
2002; He is on a waiting list for surgery by Dr. Buwembo…However, he states he is unable to perform many of his daily living activities, yard work, snow removal and leisure activities…
2004 the Appellant underwent surgery for L5-S1 discectomy, L5-S1 foraminotomy, L4-S1 pedicle screw fixation, L4-S1 posterolateral fusion with autogenous bone graft.
In Canada you get LONG WAITS, due to rationed medical care;
FIXWCBCANADA 7 months ago
Watch the great health care debate between ReasonTV and the Canadian Doctor on The Real News Network. The think taink shill lost.
The Rea News Network > ReasonTV
MsZeitgeist85 7 months ago
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game.
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthsystem, yet 85% of Canadian public doesn't know it;
FIXWCBCANADA 7 months ago
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MadHabber93 7 months ago
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@FIXWCBCANADA People don't know how they are treated after leaving a hospital?? Do you know how fucking stupid you sound??
What's like to be a total troll who doesn't know the difference between workman's comp and provincial payers, and continues to spout the same bullshit numbers that are completely made up??
MadHabber93 7 months ago
All propaganda. The World Health Organization rated Canada: 30st for country's with best healthcare while US: is 37st. Another thing they left out is that if a Canadian has to go to US for surgery Canadian healthcare pays 65% of the cost plus travel reimbursement. Also according to the 2006 Transparency List, Canada is 9th in the least-corrupt government list while US is 20th. Canada unemployment is 7.6%, while US is 10.1%. Just another Republican propaganda film. Canada is superior to US by far
dabeaner12345 7 months ago
@dabeaner12345 what is the population of Canada? Around 30 million if I'm not mistaken? US has a population of over 300 million. Of course our unemployment rate is going to be higher. Those stats are not accurate. Also if Canada is so Superior to the US, why are so many Canadians coming over to the States to get various treatments? Btw. US has one of the highest per capita GDP in the world, so we are the ones with more superiority.
alber12111 6 months ago
@alber12111 A. Unemployment is measure as a % of population, population size does not matter. And its a MYTH that many Canadians go south for care. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Americans that go abroad for less expensive care, including CANADA. And you do not have the highest GDP per capita in the world.
MadHabber93 6 months ago
who cares about who denied me care,,,,,,what difference is it....I am being denied care for a spinal injury...is it Universal Health care for all Canadians or not? obviously NOT;
FIXWCBCANADA 7 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA What difference does it make?? BECAUSE YOU ARE UNDER WORKMAN'S COMP NOT OUR UNIVERSAL PROVINCIAL SYSTEM. It is a BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE. YOu are just too fucking stupid to know it.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93 .....DUH,, is that not discrimination? Human Rights Complaint? Duh? are you a MORON or what?
I bet you work in the field of medicine or insurance, as you have provided so much disinformation it's unbelievable;
Universal Health Care in Canada is a BIG LIE, you pay into it through taxes all your life but when you need help, MEDICAL CARE, you are blatantly denied timely diagnose and timely medical care;
FIXWCBCANADA 7 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA I provide misinformation?? Bwah hahahaha. Everything I provide I can back up from reputable sources, unlike where you pull out your info from.....YOUR ASS!
Another anecdotal workman comp story from 2002...means fuck all sunshine.
85% of Canadians love their system, FACT!!! Idiot!!!
MadHabber93 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
just as a CANADIAN I just don't get it,...WHY are the patients who need surgery being DENIED the UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE they so desperately need. Canadians are so ignorant and oblivious to whats happening right under their noses it's rather sickening and down-right FRAUDULENT; and PROVES that CANADIAN'S PAY TAXES AND GET NO MEDICAL CARE,then are forced to go to were-ever;out of country because of all the CORRUPTION, try paying off your doctor in CANADA if you need medical care,
FIXWCBCANADA 7 months ago
FIXWCB is a fucking lunatic that is treated under Workman's comp NOT our Universal system. Not to mention he's a hypochondriac that no doc wants to treat. 90% of Canadians FULLY support our Universal sytem. Facts that FIXWCB continues to ignore and just present his useless opinion.
MadHabber93 7 months ago
@MadHabber93.....i was just denied medical care requested on my behalf for spinal injury;
so how does that make me a lunatic?
UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE IS CANADA'S BIGGEST LIE;
FIXWCBCANADA 7 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA Who denied you??? Workman's Comp?? That is NOT THE PROVINCIAL PAYER!!
MadHabber93 7 months ago
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient - claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game.
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthcare'system, yet most of the public don;t know it
FIXWCBCANADA 7 months ago
Bitch the reason why nobody looks at your face is because your ugly.
dano132454 8 months ago
The Canada Health Act Discriminates Against Injured
Workers By Excluding Them From "Access To Health Services Without Financial Or Other Barriers" By Excluding "Any Health Services That A Person Is Entitled To And Eligible For Under Any Act Of The legislature Of A Province That Relates To Workers' Or Workmen's Compensation" And That This Leaves Injured Workers Vulnerable To Wrongdoing By The Workers Compensation System
FIXWCBCANADA 8 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA NO ONLY THE POOR GET DENY. YOU GIMP GIPSY, HURRY UP AND GET CANCER AND DIE AND SAVE THE REST OF THE TAX PAYERS DOLLARS. OH LISTEN TO YOU HOW YOU WHINE. GET A GUN AND PUT IT IN YOUR MOUTH YOU BIG FUCKIN BABY.NOBODY GIVES A SHIT ABOUT YOU BECAUSE YOU SIT THEIR IN YOUR OWN SHIT FEELING SORRY FOR YOURSELVE. GET YOUR ANCESTORS AND GET THE FUCK OUT YOU BIG BITCH. CRY CRY CRY THATS ALL YOU DO. GROW A SPROT. OH WAIT YOU CANT BECAUSE YOUR HANDICAPP. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
dano132454 8 months ago
@dano132454 I get it, you're pissed, but making fun of a handicap is just weak.
MrRileyCoyote 7 months ago
@MrRileyCoyote now way. every one else does it.
dano132454 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient - claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game.
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthcare'system, yet most of the public doesn't know it
FIXWCBCANADA 8 months ago
Quit the illusion, USA! Your healthcare system is number 37, just in front of Slovenia according to the WHO's international rankings.
The UK, with it's NHS is number 19, and France, also a universal system financed by state health insurance is NUMBER ONE. Lagging behind, huh?
Thus, this proves nothing... infact it's crap. Just because you happen to have the experts living in your country doesn't automatically mean everything is going to go in the other direction if you adopt a state-run system.
BasilFawlty4444 8 months ago
Stop it already lady.....you're nothing more than a Fox News mouth piece!!!!
tripleheshy 9 months ago
@tripleheshy lol anyone who disagree with you, you attack. Thanks
cwood4ever 8 months ago
@cwood4ever Learn to recognize sarcasm LOL!!
tripleheshy 8 months ago
ALL YOU FUCKIN CRY BABIES THAT WHINE ABOUT OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM SHOULD PACK UP YOUR BELONGINGS AND MOVE TO RUSSIA, IRAN, OR CHINA, AND SEE HOW MUCH THEY GIVE A SHIT ABOUT HUMAN RIGHTS. YOU PEOPLE MAKE ME SICK.
SQUEAKY WHEEL GET THE GREASE.
dano132454 9 months ago
@dano132454 typical answer from a MORON, i hope you get injured and suffer the same fate, you fucking bastard
FIXWCBCANADA 9 months ago
keep whining you big FUCKIN BABY. Canadains like you are such an embarrassment.
cry me a river so i can drown you in it.
hurt, never. aint no hazards trading currency Moron.
dano132454 9 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA people like you are nothing but peasants. always with your hands out wanting more. what wrong, the squeak wheel isnt getting any grease.
dano132454 9 months ago
@dano132454 ....someday you will suffer like the rest of us and then you will sing a different tune;
You might be going through a green light when some drunk t-bones you, then you will find out for yourself how corrupt everything is; Take a long hard suck on your asshole shitface;
FIXWCBCANADA 9 months ago
@FIXWCBCANADA ingnorace is bliss, asshole. unlike you i have insurance on myself. unlike you i know WCB isnt long term disability.unlike you i find out how things work.healthcare isnt free in canada.Its assholes like you think that the government owes them. guess what misdiagnosis happens every where not just canada.Shit heads like you dont take time to understand how things work, you just assume.now your pissed off thinking the whole world is corrupt.YOUR AN IDIOT.
dano132454 9 months ago
@dano132454 ..someday you will suffer like the rest of us who are denied medical care. IDIOT
FIXWCBCANADA 9 months ago
@dano132454 ...doesnt matter what kind of insurance you have, they all deny;
The Canada Health Act Discriminates Against Injured
Workers By Excluding Them From "Access To Health Services Without Financial Or Other Barriers" By Excluding "Any Health Services That A Person Is Entitled To And Eligible For Under Any Act Of The legislature Of A Province That Relates To Workers' Or Workmen's Compensation" And That This Leaves Injured Workers Vulnerable To Wrongdoing By The Workers Compensation System
FIXWCBCANADA 8 months ago
When you are injured on the job, you lose your right to Canadian Universal Health Care;
You are then subjected to the Workers Compensation "Culture of Denial"
This adversarial system is all about DENIAL; With stereo-typical medical commentary, everything and anything will be used to deny HELP for your work injury;
False medical info will be placed into your medical file and when you PROTEST, you will be labelled a malingering faker then a threat; Then comes the chemical-straightjacket;
FIXWCBCANADA 9 months ago
maybe you should move to russia, or iran. its fuckin cry babies like you that need to be shot.
dano132454 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
In Canada 90 - 95 % of significant injuries & insurance interests are deliberately misdiagnosed & not treated or compensated. They use stereotypical clinical code/commentary to classify & render injured workers & auto accident patient - claimants. This undermines the principles of universal healthcare.
Canada was a testing ground for this Medical New York Shell game
We are treated as bad as or worse than livestock in our 'universal' healthcare system, yet most of the public doesn't know it.
FIXWCBCANADA 9 months ago
@amcmillan2008 Fixwcb is a chronic liar. Published wait times are available on line for proof. For example, in the province of Ontario, 90% of patients receive Lumbar surgery in 208 days, with the more serious cases being done first with far less of a wait time. No is denied. Another lie. His 8 to 12 year claims is pure and utter B.S.
For his low technology claim, more B.S. Any major Canadian hospital is equipped with the same technology you would find in any major U.S. hospital.
MadHabber93 10 months ago