Watchtower Comments: Randall Watters Freeminds.org

[Lengen1234567890]

Where is the website today, every attempt crashes

[mrscooter711]

Randy the real JW do not need your help. the only ones you are reaching are already mentally unstable, you must treat them with extreme care. Have you had any mental health training? If the answer is no then you could have a lawsuit on your hands if someone suicides. Blood is hard to wash off.

[HanDeckardJones]

Camera work isn't cool it is just off putting...stick to a tripod. And Randall...lose the chin fungus! LOL

[Fizzypop1211]

This guy left in 1981 - 29 years ago - and was an Elder? generally not before age 30.

so he is 59 years of age at BEST?

[yizuman]

pan in, pan out, pan in, pan out. I'm getting very, very, very, very, very distracted!! Ticking me off! Please, no more! Thanks.

Good interview nonetheless.

[archeng123]

this is truth here it is

Everybody looks at things from there point of view at that moment in time in relation to there experience up untill that moment in time thats for sure

you got to drop all your feelings prejuces first and then you will begin to look at

reality as it is

we become the creators of? our own situation and you become that thing you are creating

think logically

[inspirediam]

yes...new paradigms.

[inspirediam]

Right, we do not hate Jehovah's Witnesses. We want to expose the Watchtower Society.

[archeng123]

why dont you write somethink or the muslim faith iie the Koran or Mohamid

oooooooooooooooScared or maybe afraid second largest religion in the world come on wheres your vids on the muslim faith scared i guess

[ah0386]

Huh?

English please.

[jaker2880]

AD HOMINEM ATTACK- When a person ignores the issue at hand and instead attacks the messengers character

Cognitave Dissonance- When a person refuses to see the clear and obvious because to do so would mean to admit error or harder yet,make a sacrifice for truth.

[Irishgeraldine]

Such rubbish just cause u dont want to do Jehovahs will u tell lies lol COP ON

[EelSacul]

More JW shaming language from

jpaulgan. You're an idiot through and through, and your previous post proves it. If you can't see that you were brainwashed into supporting the organization just by your previous post, then you deserve to be a Jehovah's Witness. Have fun getting surgery!

[LuckyFokker]

Excellent video Randy, been to your site many times, keep up the good work

[jpaulgan]

So many apostates like this guy have gone their own different ways. but one thing in common. they "beat" their former brothers. why don't you go out and preach your new found "truth" now if you really do have it now. At least that is what your former brothers are still busy doing worldwide while apostates are ranting on the internet with all their hateful propaganda. Not one of you has ever spoken of Jehovah now or of his Kingdom which is something Satan won't inspire you to speak of.

[philhawk15]

Answer me this, if Christ has returned in invisable presence in 1914, read Revelation 1:7. Look he is coming with the clouds, and EVERY EYE WILL SEE HIM

[philhawk15]

And this makes sense, otherwise someone could BS you and tell you he has already returned.

[philhawk15]

He has returned and we are his agents, do what we say!

[formeragnostic]

Actually it was books by Randall and other ex-JW's that guided me into the truth and into a relationship with the real Jesus Christ. He is a witness (Acts 1:8) and I thank Jehovah for using this man to cause people to think with their own minds instead of allowing the Watchtower to think for them. I was going to become a Jehovah's Witness but I thank Jehovah for Randall's obedience to Him. Keep up the good work brother Randall. Is 43:10

[inspirediam]

I am happy to see that you are here.

[cherkas009]

there are many like this guy, they dont want to know anything, dont care

[yizuman]

camera shake and focusing drive me absolutely crazy! STOP THAT!

[LitoMC77]

This religion and all it's negative thoughts are becoming more and more irrelevant since there's a real meaningful life out there with all meaning you need to be happy when you do it your way and not someone others whatsoever intentions. Thanks to information age courageous "apostates" we have freedom to think ourselves.

[Rwssel]

Randy, I dont know if you see this, but thank you for being there in early 90's

[mtown1978]

Why are faithful Jehovah's Witnesses commenting here? If they listen to what the faithful and discreet slave says, they wouldn't even click on this video, let alone invite dialog with "apostates." I hope your elders don't find out who you are.

Just curious, I read something here about facial hair...is it wrong to be like Jesus, the prophets, and even C. T. Russell and grow facial hair?

[billsdoris]

Great video Randall. You are so right when you say we do not hate Jehovah's Witnesses. We simply hate the fact that the governing body will not allow it's members to do personal research and check for themselves if what they are being told is right or wrong.

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

"We simply hate the fact that the governing body will not allow it's members to do personal research and check for themselves if what they are being told is right or wrong".......

Strange, I do that kind of research almost every day... To date, no Gov body member has shown up at my door to try to stop me!

But I'll let you know if that ever does happen!

[beardfreak1969]

You are unlikely to ever meet a GB bloke. I suspect if you did have privileged access to the inner sanctum, your copy of " In Search of Christian Freedom " would be rather unwelcome.

Why not take the book along to the book study and see if you could go through it chapter by chapter with the brothers & sisters. You know, an open and honest exchange of ideas?

[billsdoris]

Good answer. They know the moment they do something like that they would be marked, and if they contiue to say anything against the gov. body they will be kicked out

[beardfreak1969]

I don't wish to be unkind (well, a little gremlin inside occasionally does) - but " that is the truth " - I think most of us know based around experience, that when studying & especially when baptised, a person is encouraged " not " to look at opposing literature. Those who do, are usually fringe members or, have to lead a double life.

Best to just be honest as a JW & admit, that the WTBTS prohibit (albeit tacitly on occasion) antithesis.

[exjw44288]

LOL...good answer. Picturing such just cracks me up.

[billsdoris]

As usual everything needs to be spelt out to JWs. The research I was talking about is independent research. You know the type of research that doesn't use Watchtower publications. I suggest you checkout some of the ex witness websites for yourself. Remember most ex witnesses have left because of what they have found out. I shouldn't tell your local body of elders though because you will be labeled an apostate.

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

I assure you "billsdoris", condescension is not necessary... I knew what you meant... Howvever, my comment stands.

Before becoming one of JW's, (nine mos ago), I researched their origins, teachings and organizational structure from all points of view. Did I find perfection? No!

But what I did find, was an organization with accurate Bible doctrine, built on genuine love and a dedication to the doing God's will.

If that makes me foolish in your eyes, so be it, (1 Corinthians 1:25) . . .

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

Because a foolish thing of God is wiser than men, and a weak thing of God is stronger than men....

(1 Corinthians 1:27-29) . . .but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are".

[billsdoris]

I certainly do not believe you are foolish. If you did check out things before you became a witness then good on you. Most witnesses only get to see Watchtower errors after they get baptised.

No one expects them to be perfect just honest and if you have read 'Crisis of Conscience' by Ray Franz who was a governing body member you will see that many times they passed off something that may happen as something that was absolutely true, and by so doing they have ruined thousands of peoples lives.

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

billsdoris, I haven't read Ray Franz' book. I"ve seen some video talks.

What organization has no detractors? View point is a matter of perspective. (redundant) Take NAG for example, He fought, .. tooth and nail, with his opponents here prior to his conversion. Defending not only doctrine, but the org itself.

Now, mere months post conversion, he speaks with the same overall disdain of his former adversaries... "Nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so". - Abraham Lincoln

[FutureMeteorologist]

Cindy, Newagegamer probably left the organization because he was being "fleshly" reasonable. After all, Christendom accepts everyone.

In christendom:

** you do not have to preach door to door

**you can be accepted regardless of what you are (gay, lesbian, fornicators, adulterers.etc)

**there is hardly any disfellowshipping

**All you have to do is have faith, and works is not required (lol lazy people)

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

You are sooo right F.M!

Also, have you noticed, when they leave the org. they grow facial hair... Yea, it's really worth it, just so you can have a bit more hair on your face! .. (I'm sure I'll get some hate for that comment!)

[FutureMeteorologist]

they just like the freedom of it Cindy

After all with the absence of a strict conscience, you can do whatever you want.

Christendom is a place for complacent-indolent-dogmatic christians.

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

Right again F.M! .. (2 Peter 2:19) . . .While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption. . .

[RationalSkeptic]

Quote: "After all with the absence of a strict conscience, you can do whatever you want."

Note: a Mormon would say that former Mormons that "drink coffee and tea" is evidence that those ex-Mormons have no conscience and just want to be immoral.

I suspect you would reject that condemnation. If so, now you know how/why ex-JWs reject your condemnation over "beards" and "door-to-door".

[ah0386]

Of course, now I can sacrifice chickens in my living room, party like it's 1999 and live a life of complete lawlessness.

[ah0386]

Not for making such a hasty generalization, but for being so ignorant.

As if a personal freedom to "grow a beard" overshadows the complete lack of logic, lies and contradictions made by this organization.

[RationalSkeptic]

Quote: "All you have to do is have faith, and works is not required (lol lazy people)"

At least one obvious exception comes to mind: Pentecostal Faith Healers! In fact, they would say that JWs do not display any "works".

(Disclaimer: I am NOT pentecostal)

[RationalSkeptic]

Quote "But what I did find, was an organization with accurate Bible doctrine, built on genuine love and a dedication to the doing God's will."

Yup, just like every other religion on the planet.

[poutybean]

accurate bible doctrine... which changes a lot ;)

[RationalSkeptic]

I'll call your bluff:

please list the non-watchtower sources and resources you are currently or have every read/watched/reviewed/consulte­d.

Note: I am not talking about ANY non-JW material on ANY topic! I only mean non-JW material that deals directly with the JWs. (praise, critique, condemnation, whatever).

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

Yea, I'll get that for you right away! Cause I know that if I get you what you're asking for, you'll immediately change or soften your view of JW's ... While you're waiting, please, hold your breath.

[RationalSkeptic]

In case you have forgotten, here are your words:

"Before becoming one of JW's, (nine mos ago), I researched their origins, teachings and organizational structure from all points of view."

I have inferred that "all points of view" includes (some) non-JW sources. If true, that would be a very complete and proper study.

I challenge you to support this statement with evidence by supplying a few of the non-JW sources -- "from all points of view"  you used for your "research".

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

What I said is exactly true, I studied with JW's using their publications and my Bible. ..... I researched JW's using information and resources that were randomly positive, neutral and negative in their views and opinions of JW's.

Did I speak to everyone out there with an opinion, .. of course not... But I did sample a wide variety of perspectives...

So, you want me to name all the souces? ..... I'm intrigued, ... To what end would I be doing this?

[RationalSkeptic]

Thanks for responding. I'm not trying to be difficult, just to get to the facts.

Your response restates the general, non specific claim.

Of course you didn't speak to "everyone" -- I never suggested that. That is ridiculous.

Purpose: to back up *your* claim of research and due diligence. You might be the exception, you might have really done homework, but I need some evidence to believe that.

So the question is, still, list some SPECIFIC non-JW references you consulted before joining JWs.

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

Again, MY question is, "to what end?"

If I fulfill your request, .. then what?

Will I then have to supply witnesses, who saw me consulting those sources?

Will you then say, "okay, thank you very much, I believe you" .. And then go your merry way?

Seriously, to what end???

[RationalSkeptic]

Quote: "Seriously, to what end???"

Seriously, please don't put words into my mouth or predict what I will say next.

My request, in my original question, was to "call your bluff". You claimed you researched JWs before joining, "from various points of view".

I have no reason to believe you, but also not reason to non believe you. But your claim of independent research seemed unlikely, to me. So I asked a simple question: provide "SOME" (not all) of the non-JW resources you studied.

[RationalSkeptic]

After, what are we at now, three replies from you, the closest you have come to answering the question is to say you used your bible with their literature.

If that is the full extent of your answer, please just say so.

Why? Once again, because I suspect your claim of independent research is not entirely correct. I am calling your bluff. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong, but don't keep avoiding answering a simple question. Name a couple of those resources to back up *your* claim. ;)

[JWwannabe]

i am a fence sitter

do you think jehovah will murder me and my children

will jehovah kill all catholics and born again christians children

[RationalSkeptic]

Hi WithSpiritAndTruth, I have made a YT video just for you, since I felt the limited format of text comments was taking us in circles.

/watch?v=HbDKyHifP9E

I look forward to your response.

[ah0386]

Deflecting-

Witness are good at that.

[inspirediam]

And, they were trained to do so, via the Watchtower "spiritual food."

[RationalSkeptic]

Although it would be a fantastic show of fairness on your part if you did name "all the sources", I never asked for that -- that would be too onerous a request.

If you re-read my posts, I asked for *SOME*.

Let me make it easier: name your "TOP TWO" non-JW resources about JWs (books, web sites, whatever) you consulted to learn about JWs before joining.

Optional Part B: using those two non-JW sources, what are most significant, and most ridiculous, things, either for and against, JWs.

[ah0386]

I'm sure you do, as long it's in line with the current thinking of the WT. \"With spirit and truth" you consider all the facts, right?

**w8511/1pp.6-7IndependenceFro­mGod—WhyNot?

*w856/1p.19par.13WalkWithConfi­denceinJehovahsLeadership

w947/1pp.22-23pars.20-21TheChr­istianViewofAuthority

km5/02p.6par.4ModestyinDressan­dGrooming

Just a few recent articles clearly condemning any and all independent thinking.

[DblOSmith]

Excellent. I love it.

[beardfreak1969]

Did you know that the V character is in part based on the works of Aleister Crowley?

Good video btw - when we arrive at the point where we no longer claim "to know all things" we certainly attain relief & a sense of freedom.

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

Yes, I agree... Ignorance is bliss!

[beardfreak1969]

" Ignorance is bliss "

Meaning?

[newbirth35]

The problem is when people leave the Watchtower for....nothing - no belief. Replace the Watchtower with a living relationship with Jesus. :)

[cooper79jeffr]

That's a problem, in your opinion. I've had enough "belief" and "preaching" to last many lifetimes. I don't want anybody telling me what to believe any more, I had enough of that when JW. I was disillusioned when leaving JW's, so I examined all assumptions, even about the majority religion of my culture (Christian). I came to understand that even mainstream Christianity is people preaching opinions and theories about their God. I feel happy even without knowing or caring whether a God exists.

[WatchtowerAss]

That is soooo wrong! Has a JW I've got alot of hot air to send to people. Just bread in my hot air and receive the Watchtower's doctrines into your mind.

[twistereli]

Probably their site will be packed with anti-JWs and not people exchanging their thoughts in a kind way like Randy Watters goal is.

I think it doesn't need to be linked to JW at all, it would be better as just a seperated thing :)

[JBSauce]

Linked to JW, as in, linked to the Watchtower Society? It has no links to that.

Why do you think that there will be hateful people on the site? I've spoken with a few people who contribute to the site. They aren't hateful people.

[twistereli]

Well, because many anti-JW are subscribed to this channel and probably are going there too now.

But if it's moderated propperly it will be fine. I'm just not the person who likes people stacking together at one place that isn't really meant to be for them, they keep others out. But if that wont happen as you state, then i'm fine with it:)

[JBSauce]

It's been my experience that pro-JW boards are the ones that lock out dissenting viewpoints. There's no board at Freeminds at the moment, but I'm a member of two ex-JW boards. I currently post at one of those boards.

JW apologists come on from time to time, but it's generally tough to make any meaningful conversation. They post condemnatory statements, then leave without answering the rebuttals. Or, it's just a commercial for how great the "the slave" is. But they are nonetheless welcome.

[twistereli]

Ok, that's indeed not the way to conversate, they should atleast make it a dialogue and not a monologue :D

[JBSauce]

I agree.

[ExGileadMissionary]

I post on freeminds, and I think my tone is quite tolerant...

[exjw44288]

Many jws think that they're being personally attacked by exjws, when in fact, the rage is directed at the governing body.

Many jws also confuse the governing body with Jehovah.

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

If that's true, then why do I have clear out the filth and hate from my inbox on a daily basis? ... Are they mistaking me for a Governing body member?

[beardfreak1969]

Well, if that is true, that's sad. But don't feel alone in the hate - I've had that too, for posting a video about abuse in Nigeria - a host of white supremacists took it upon themselves to begin clogging up the discussions with vile comments and abuse.

[beardfreak1969]

There can be a tendency amongst the dim-witted on the planet to abuse others and active JWs are easy targets. Just see these abusers for what they are - blind, stupid & retarded, but hopefully with the potential to evolve into something far more pleasant and sensible.

[exjw44288]

This is a public forum...anyone can represent themselves as anything. And you have no idea with whom you are really dealing.

[Newagegamer3018]

"If that's true, then why do I have clear out the filth and hate from my inbox on a daily basis? ... Are they mistaking me for a Governing body member? "

Boy you should see the lovely messages I get from Jehovah's Witnesses on Youtube. They pratically think im Satan!

[WithSpiritAndTruth]

I don't think you're Satan, NAG, .. Just horribly misguided by him!

[ah0386]

Absolutely-

Just like we are to follow "the anointed", when in reality it's the 9 to 10 men in Brooklyn who are calling the shots.

When was the last time anyone seek guidance from your local anointed brother or sister?