When you see a cloud shaped as a dragon, is it because something made it look like a dragon, or are you seeing a dragon from your perspective. And if it is perspective, does it make it any less beautiful?
a mind (consciousness) creates, without it nothing will exist.
when you die and loose your thoughts what exists to you? nothing.
nothing would exist if there was no perceivers. does a rock know its a rock? does it know its on land or at the bottom of the ocean does it even know it exists?
@showmethemoney716 knowledge of a thing isn't the thing. Reality is what remains so even if it is never known to be so. schrodinger's cat is bullshit.
Can anyone answer my question?? If Religion was real, why is it born within the age of the Homo sapiens (am I right?)?? I mean, does the animals (as a part of life in the earth) even car about their existence? If we are the superior beings created by God (by his likeness or lets say his whole feature), why does some animals can be trained and can communicate to humans with simple logic? Does it mean if that animals possess traits same as humans, animals also possess traits of God? Thank you! ^_^
@all13Doctors maybe, Just maybe, or it could be the collapse of another universe,into our own,nothing made, nothing lost, raises more questions though, like why is that happening, and how!
@azmanabdula Colliding Membranes.... I thing when universes with radically different physical properties meet the result is calld a domain wave. It's a something wave, anyway.
@all13Doctors ive heard all these, its total speculation, there might math for it, but we wont know for sure,its a strange concept, i myself would like to think im open to all scientific enquiry, as long as its scientific,in which is uses the scientific method, but i must say these theories are truely just theories, not like evolution, and the wave particle duality concept of fundamental particles. but still im open to the idea, for without ideas, what would we have!
@azmanabdula I know what you mean... but you're confusing theory with hypothesis.
Evolution and the Standard Model are theories. The rest are hypothesis. Theory has evidence to back it up :) Sorry, just nit-picking :-D And without ideas, I think we would be very little indeed.
@all13Doctors many would disagree, stating anything no longer a theory is either fact or false, what else is there? Comon evolution happens= true we mostly know how, some chemical reactions yet to be analyzed. but yeah, why are we arguing?
@all13Doctors thats why, a couple beers and im into war mode! still, could it be the whole religious debate is now over, and all we have are a bunch of people still in the dark, and don't want to waste time switching on the light, even though we installed on in every house. peace good discussion~~~~~!
It just hit me right now how incredibly pointless this entire argument is. If the atheist is right, I won't change my lifestyle. If the Christian is right, I won't change my lifestyle. What's the point?
The point is what role, if any, religion should play in society, law and culture. You may not choose to change your lifestyle, but others may choose to change it for you, by requiring you to do something, or preventing you from doing it.
Religion and lifestyle are two different things. Lifestyle can be touched by others, religion cannot. Your first sentence is probably right on though.
Perhaps I was unclear. I was saying that religion, the institution, can exert power and influence onto society, applying its religious values onto everything. To the extent that religion has power, it can affect the lives of individuals who are forced to comply with religious values. In that sense, the validity of religion is important, in helping to clarify whether religion really should, or really shouldn't, have it's values imposed on everybody else.
@aeroldoth Ok that made more sense. H. G. Wells had a quote that I find makes sense. "If there is no God, nothing matters. If there is a God, nothing else matters." That reflects what you are saying.
Hmmmm... am I still being unclear? Your Wells quote seems a variation of Pascal's Wager, which isn't what I was referring to. My purpose was not what value religion has, IN AND OF ITSELF, but rather, what "right" religion has to dictate people's behaviours.
Many theists are opposed to abortion and gay rights, as well as other things, on religious grounds. With religion being offered as the main reason why these should be opposed, the validity of religion then becomes an important issue.
"for something to exist it has to be made up of either energy/ and or matter. this is a law of physics"
my question, then where did the origonal particles to make the universe come from? nowhere? you are disproving that law of physics of which you just used to "debunk" (haha) the existence of God. please have a more valid arguement
i cant prove that god exists, nor cant you prove that, that particle made the whole universe. its a theory it never was proven. and if you can prove it. how did that one lilttle particle get created?
it was proven by the way, the big bang was proven and the universe is still expanding. religeon trys to hold back scientific research and answers, its what it has been doing for years. the catholic church put people to death when they said that men had the same no. of ribs as women and that the earth was round, eventually your theory of the earth was created by a god will be laughable to everyone including u.
They havent proven it, science always changes, and i wrote before i dont know how god got created, i dont know how those ions or whatever it was that started the earth got created. all i know is that this "war" between athiest and religion well go on till finally someone is proven wrong... so no point of arguing.... but i love it how athiest are stubborn all of the time puts a smile on my face.
Do we have to remind you that the theory of gravity is not proven nor is the atomic theory. The reason why science leads to real knowledge is that we are allowed, indeed we are forced to evaluate new evidence and adjust the theories we have accordingly.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that changing your mind based on a new set of evidence is unintelligent, when in fact holding on to your previous belief in in spite of a new, better explanation is.
Its a theory, but when we get to the flunk time it becomes a hypothesis. Let me give you a little though. Matter and energy can neither be created or destoryed. This means that the universe cant have been "created". The only reasonable conclusion we could do here is to say that the universe always existed.
@katysexbomb666 point is, where did this single particle came from, who cares what came about after. This particle is a physical matter from what I understand, then was it just sitting there in a dimensionless space and one day decide I should pop?
@rz1986 scientists don't know that yet, they dont claim to. Science is constantly discovering and learning about the universe. It is proved that it started from one particle so you can't dispute that. Don't make unjustifyable claims like 'god did it'. Save a step, and remain skeptical until it is proven. Plus even if a creator did make the universe (probobly not) it doesnt mean its a god. Don't believe everything your told.
@katysexbomb666 Ofcourse scientist dont know what came before that but then again this argument doesn't disprove God either. There was a time people would have thought you're a dumbass to believe the Earth is round as they believed it to be flat. Point being, things that may seem certain may not be the case, next day you may figure out everything you believed was BS due to some new discovery. I think your problem is that you are probably trying to picture God to be in some shape or form
@rz1986 you are completely OBLIVIOUS to the facts. Do you know what a god is? Heres the definition AN OBJECT OF WORSHIP. Even if there was a creater it might not be a god. It might cease to exist, the possibilities are endless. Therefor we must remain sceptical until things are proven. Will you ignore the theory of gravity just because 'there might be something that comes up in the future'?
@katysexbomb666 Either way you look at it, the supernatural is something outside the reference of time and space, you cannot create or initiate something and bound yourself within it, thats common sense. ANd if the universe existed forever, then you wouldnt be here.You got nothing in terms of logic and you are just repeating utter BS that you clearly dont understand yourself. You are just a religion hater and angry.. go kill yourself cuz u came from nothing and will go to nothing :)
@katysexbomb666 and its hard to grasp such a picture. However even the thiests do not know what form God is in, he is eternal, dimensionless, not bounded by space and time and the absolute. Theoretically if you say the universe always existed then if that was the case we wouldnt be here today because we'd be waiting for time preceding us to unfold first. That can only mean time and space came from something beyond description, supernatural and some super being we cannot imagine.
@katysexbomb666 But to say that Big bang initiated from a particle and all that are again just THEORIES!! So dont believe it like its a fact. Just like that example of the world being flat. Like you say dont believe in everything you are told.
@rz1986 you need to stop reading biased creationist crap. this is the definition of a theory -a wellsubstantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world.I'm done with you, you are extremely naive and dumb.
And wtf are you talking about? SCIENCE proved the earth was round while scientists were being HANGED for centuries by corrupt religious cults. Wether you accept it or not evolution and the big bang are PROVEN, just cause it doesn't say it in a bronze age book about talking snakes.
@katysexbomb666 HAHA lmaooo @ proven. Im naive?? lmaoo. You are not an athiest instead your hate for people with faith and religion is obvious. On the other hand religious people like me have no problems with people like you, you are free to choose your own religion, but appaerntly the so called 'free thinkers' such as yourself are having trouble accepting 'freedom of faith'. Yes thats a contradiction. Man read you own definition, clearly theory is not proof, you're just a dumbass
@peronkop The fact remains, the human cannot comprehend outside its capacity. We cannot fathom concepts that require us to think past space and time and therefore humans can only come up with theories but NOT prove with hard facts regarding our existence. However this eternal time doesn't make sense whatsoever and the idea of a supernatural doesn't sit in the head of athiests like you. So what do you suggest? You think science will one day come out and reveal the secrets of this universe?
@peronkop when science itself is bounded by the advancements of human who are again bounded by the reality of time and space. Imagine one day you finally are able to figure out the beginning of everything, but that again wouldn't stop there because there must have been a predecessor lmaoo. It will never stop and no phenomenon science can explain is responsible for our happening. It is only therefore natural and logical to believe in some supernatural design
As strange as it sounds, "Something can pop into existence out of nothing", please read Deep Simplicity by John Gribbin. In it he explains the quantuum science underlying the principle that "something" (i.e. the complexity of life) is the inevitable outcome of "nothing" (i.e. chaos). The world is stranger than we imagine it to be - our "gut", hopes and intuition are not good tools for understanding it.
Did you know that NDEs occurred in different ways to people of different religions? A documentary showed Hindus experiencing "Yamraj", the God of death, Buddhists experiencing being close to Buddha, etc. Does this mean that ALL the religions are true? No it doesn't, it means NDEs are not a reliable source of any evidence.
Just because you think the evidence is "strong" doesn't mean we all do.
I'll be honest, I didn't even watch the video. I don't feel it's worth my time. I dismiss the idea of a God, 'cause it just seems like complete garbage. Maybe I wouldn't be an Atheist if there was actually a decent amount evidence to support the idea of God.
Detailed specific information can arise from randomness (mutations)
YOU are the one that believes
A DIGITAL CODE in (DNA) can write its self even though we have NO EXAMPLES that a digital code can be written without an intelligence behind it. You have no examples of your theory in
Your name is "ponkadolz" which makes no sense. You've been on YouTube since May of 2006. You've watched close to 2,300 videos. I do believe you have just labeled you yourself as a "dork/jerkhead". Haha.
theists believe in a god, atheist go not believe in the existence of a god. all of us have freewill so we can choose to believe whatever we want and nobody has the right to force to believe something that we refuse to believe. what's the point of debationg anyway? specially here on youtube where dorks and jerkheads spend their leisure time. LOL
I can't wait for the day science explains how it all started, then what will religious people say? It seems like that's the only thing they can grab onto as "evidence" against atheists. Religion is utter bollocks
Define what the "it" is that science will explain. The very fact that something requires explanation, automatically creates room for doubt. I'm afraid your science will just lead us down the next avenue of "not knowing", "researching", and my favorite, "applying logic".
Why should i have to state this? it should be known even if you DON'T believe it, for debating.
It happened after Lucifer fell from heaven and tempted Eve with the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil. She ate it and disobeyed God. Adam soon followed.
It is after they fell from God when everything that was perfect, fell into a sinful world.
Yes- god is a dick by any moral standard other than his own (unless he considers himself a dick)
No- he is not almighty
Did god know what would happen to man yet create things that way anyway?
Yes- he is a dick or not almighty
No- he is not all knowing
Any way you look at it, if god exists he is either a complete a-hole by any human standard (just look at some of the other things god did and told people to do) or not the god of the bible
i can't agree with you on that, because we do not know what he has intend for us in the end.
The, God can destroy Lucifer at any time, but God also allows him to live. For what reason, no body knows, but he is allowing him for a reason. God is not stupid. I know this, or i would not be here today.
Yes, God did know what would happen to man, yet he created us anyway out of love. He wanted beings that had free will to come and love him, and for him to love. Thats they way love works.
You say we don't know what he has intended for us in the end, but we do know what happens to people in life and it looks to me like some people get the good stuff and others get raped. And it seems pretty random how that works, so with all the evidence we have, god is a dick. Eternal torment after death for those who don't believe? The least he could do is provide a little verifiable evidence.
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Philosophy, is an amazing gift of evolution, that has been Given to us by God, what we see as a million years, God would see in a blink of an eye, but even the blink of an eye is controlled by time, and that doesnt apply to God.
We know from our experience that everything that begins to exist has a cause, so we can take the illogical approach and believe in infinite regression or take the unimaginable approach and say there is an infinite (timeless) god. There may be some beliefs in between there but you get my point.
I want to hear the religious guy say why previous religions and gods, ie greek, egytian, roman, and why the stories are so similar and why they are wrong. Betcha anything he couldn't do it.
1. Not enough logical proof that would be used as a defense. Christianity and Judaism do.
2. Christianity explain a beginning and reasons for it and use logical viewing standpoints to debate and defend. The old religions, however, did not have a way.
3. The old religions did not even come up with origins for their gods/goddesses in many many many MANY cases. Nor the reasoning for why they created human beings. Christianity does.
This atheist said that Craig agrees with science up to a point and then discards it.
The fact is I have talked to many atheist and atheist agrees with science to a certain point also. They have said some of science is just a theory, "science is just a theory not a fact".
That is an ignorant statement...nothing is a fact, there are only probabilities of something being true in this universe, science tells us that. As for evolution most people agree yes it happened there is mountains of evidence supporting it, as for gravity we though we understood it, when in reality we are beginning to realize we dont fully,....this is where those probability come about.
Yes I agree, evolution is technically a bunch of theories and hypothesis, but the evidence for it is mountainous and we can most certainly be sure it did happen (scientifically) . As for gravity know one really knows where gravity comes from, we though we understood it but are just realizing we dont. Im not sure what your trying to point out, because I am a Christian and believe in the Christian God.
We do not have the knowledge or the abilities to understand or begin to understand how ANY of the scientific laws came into being, whats keeping them going and balanced, AND why they exist in the first place. However, logical standpoints of this suggest that they are finely tuned to fit in our existence so that we CAN EXIST.That's just one of the many parts that gets me. If any of the scientific laws are slightly changed, then not could really exist that could acknowledge existence.
I agree with you up until you say 'However'. You could also say that WE are finely tuned to fit into this universe. When you think about it this is the only reason why anything exists, because it is the only thing that could have come into existence and that point in space and time under the conditions at that point. Evolution is the process we understand to have done our fine-tuning since the begining of life on earth. We 'are' because the universe 'is' not the other way around.
Sometimes when I slip into temptation and go out with friend who drink and don't go to church, then I think perhaps it is all a scam. But I speak to my church leader and he tells me to pray for faith.
And then so I went into the pentecostal church and they were all rolling around on the floor speaking in tongues and prophecy - what else could that be but the Holy Ghost?
Well one day I was walking down the street smoking a spliff and this man with a beard and long hair wearing a white rag stumble into me, and he said 'I need to get my arse into gear' and as he walked on he said 'Jesus man, Jesus man'. This was outside a pentecostal church so I thought perhaps that the bearded man must have been Jesus.
Yes. If you have read the bible 3 times then you would know that near the End Time that no one would believe anymore because they would believe in a lie. Satan would fool with false miracles (like modern technology like television and this internet).
If my God was false then my faith would be in vain and if I have only one life and then thats it - that would mean I have wasted all of my life so far, and there would be no point going on living anymore...
A strong angel will sound a trumpet and then it will be too late for you. the strong angel sounds from the sea on the east. It is all revealed in the book of Revelation.
Atheism is fake because they have been made to believe in a lie (the scientific method)
And you haven't been made to believe a lie? The only reason you believe in God is because people from the past believed in God. If those people believed stongly in something else, then you'd probably have the same beliefs and this same argument would change accordingly. So, how is religion correct? No proof = no real argument.
Are you claiming that the Bible is not the word of God? Do you claim that Jesus was a liar? A lunatic? Can you prove this?
I believe in God because otherwise there is no explanation for where life and the laws of physics came from.
Not all religions are correct, only the one I believe in. You have to believe in it as well, if the Almighty Lord comes back tonight and catches you playing FPS he will show you no mercy because you did not heed the good news.
You're excalty the type of person i hate most. You cannot say that your religion it true. Nor can anyone else, no matter what they believe. There's absolutely no evidence of Gods existence, so you have no point. There's also evidence to show that Christianity actually adopted some of its holidays, including Chritmas, so what does that tell you? I'm an atheist because i actually have a reason to think the way that i do. You have no excuse for being a blind, ignorant moron.
You hate me because you follow Satan. My religion is true because the Bible says it is. The immoral behaviour of atheists and people of all other religions and the moral behaviour of Christians is evidence that the the Christian bible god is real. CHristmas is when baby Jesus was born to die for our sins. Your 'reason' is a delusion. You have been fooled by that antichrist Richard Dawkins and co.
Youtube apparently hates me, so lets go again. I don't follow Satan. I follow nothing except what my rational thinking brain tells me to. You clearly have no knowledge of your own religion, otherwise you wouldn't even be here right now, having this argument. I can tell you that Christmas is not when Jesus was born. It was celebrated by other religions before Jesus was apparently born, so basically, Christianity isn't only wrong, it's a thief. This also make you a thief and your life is pointless
That because Satan pre-empted Jesus birth with his own fake festivals. Your "rational thinking brain" is your free will and you are using it to reject God.
I feel like i'm becoming less intelligent just by reading your comments. You're clearly an idiot. Don't you know that your brain is there so that you can think for yourself? Try using it and maybe you'll stop fighting the inevitibale. God doesn't exist, Satain doesn't exist, there's no one else controlling my thoughts or actions. We are here, on Earth now. We get one life, so make use of it instead of believing in fairy tales.
Ahaha, after your first post I figured you were joking. Then again, I always think Christians are joking when they spout their stupidity with a straight face.
No, the calenders are different in the Bible - a lunar calendar is used and that is give shorter years so you have to add up the revealed years to get the correct date.
You are a caveman because you you believe what Darwin said that we evolved from cavemen.
There won't be any 2k years from now because on Easter in 2039 Our Lord is going to come flying back down again and all you atheist cavemen will be f@@ked because it will be too late to start believing then.
I myself (never read the bible, fully) but I believe what good people tell me, a priest for example !, I also beleieve in the 10 commandments, I believe that religion is a gift from God to follow to be a better person, so that you can reach heaven,
I dont fully follow it, but I DO try my best, as for religion, so many Religions ehh?, but wouldnt it be boring if there was only 1?, and as with wars with religion, think about it, its not religion that starts wars,
LMAO, well then, if they believed in SO many other Gods, then that was there beliefs, im guessing, they had a god of vengence, a God of rain, a God of war, im not far of right??, but they were wrong, because there only is 1 God, who is forever lasting, beyond time, beyond matter, beyond your imagination, and im far from blind m8, I take on the ideology of a Thiesist, you Athiests are what I like to say, not thinking outside the Box. your todays cave men, stubborn and just ignorent to the truth
God is God, he has always excisted, maybe thats just what there name for God was back in them days "Zeus", same way different Religions These days have different names for God, but God has always been, even before time and the Universe, he is not controlled by the rules of the universe, he is above and beyond them, as He made them.
Certain microscopic sub particles actually do emerge out of nothingness, briefly separate, reemerge back into one particle, and then go back into nothingness. It just doesnt make any sense. But I dont think that this is evidence for a God, I just think its really weird. I don't think it's sufficient to posit that someone outside of space time snapped it into existence out of nothing. Its really just proof of the mysterious nature of the universe, as opposed to the nature of a creator.
Hmm. He's speaking intelligently. I prefer the 'Universe is in a constant state of flux' theory as opposed to 'the universe has a beginning' theory.
It states that the Universe is in a constant state of expansion and contraction. The forces that are expanding the universe at the moment, are being counteracted by Gravity, a constant force, and will eventually cause it to collapse, forming another Big Bang at some point in the future.
It holds that the 'Bang' has happened more than once.
sigh* in order for somthing to click, its needs somthing to flick, what this guy is doing is going round and round in circles, but the facts of the basis end with somthing started it
For the last few hundred years scientists (back to Maxwell and perhaps earlier) have found the 3 dimensional space inadequate so he theorized a 4 spatial dimensional cosmology. So my point is, rather than saying - the methods we accept cannot explain this - so there it has always been, we could also say the cause was operating at a higher dimension or higher set of laws. Our finite brains have hit a brick wall - but what is behind it?
I am not sure if that is getting to the point you are after or not? If not, let me know and we can further hone this discussion.
I didn't mean any offense when I boldly claimed that his argument was absurd. I did honestly think that it was apparent to everyone that ever effect has a cause and ever cause has a cause (back to the beginning of causes - then we are stuck lol)
I think the universe is universal i.e. it was there forever ago and will be there forever later. If we ignore how the matter got there (assuming that it was always there or at least that it got there somehow) then everything else could have just developed from that. If by cause you mean scientifically, then a supernatural being is pprobably the least scientifically plausible answer. I cannot think of anyother causes to the universe so i figure it was alyas there.
As I said, instead of invoking an idea that does go beyond all observed phenomena, I think it's more reasonable to say it was supernatural. That is to say - if the laws of the universe don't seem to correlate with your premise, maybe there are laws above or outside our universe. You don't need to invoke a god(s), although I have no problem with it.
The whole cards example is absurd. He is assuming he already has a deck from which to play. Sorry bud, where did your deck come from? (of course I doubt he will hope onto youtube to answer lol, but it's more probable that the garbage he is spewing)
What a terrible argument. There is no reason to believe that their was no cause to the universe? Contrary to ALL physics and ALL known science, he believes that our universe had no cause. Yes, atheism is such a rational and logical position. Invoke a God or what have you, saying that absolutely nothing caused this universe is the most laughable and irrational concept presented by mankind. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
Second only to the idea of god. I don't know why people seem to think that the universe ever did not exist. And if the universe came from god, where did god come from (bet you heard that one a few times)
the creator of energy, time and matter could not be constricted by his very own creation. simply put, if there was a creator he would be infinite in age; he would not be constricted by time because he would have created the space-time continuum.
I never said I KNOW something created the universe. I simply said that assuming it happened without a cause goes against everything we have ever observed in nature. In other words, he has just as much faith as the theist, and he has science AGAINST what he believes, they don't. THAT is why it's laughable and irrational.
Show me what there is in nature that science has proven that something caused? Seriously, stop with the baseless statements which you seem to think are self evident and obvious to all. Thats not a personal attack, it's constructive critisicm. WHAT in nature was caused by WHAT, and don't just say that 'science' goes against something, science never goes against anything, it changes constantly and you should mention the specific branch of science that contradicts what he is saying.
What triggers a neuron? Some sort of stimuli, what causes that? What caused that? Etc.
Any event that I can conceive is a long chain of causes. All physical processes, all chemical reactions, so forth. 1. Every finite and contingent being has a cause. 2. Nothing finite and contingent can cause itself. 3. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length. 4. Therefore, a First Cause (or something that is not an effect) must exist.
a first cause is a hypocritical statement. Why do you not apply that logic to a god? I'm assuming you suggest that the god is not subject to such laws, which is simply not logical.
you say that the universe "must" have been created, and it could not have existed forever, but don't apply that logic to a god, who seemingly existed forever. That isn't logical.
It is science coupled with logic. Science seems to be telling us the universe had a beginning in the finite past. Logic tells me that all events have a cause, so the creation of the universe had a cause. That was the point I was making. I don't recall ever mentioning god as you brought up. In addition, logic leads to my conclusion not yours. An actual infinite chain of causes is in fact, illogical.
the fact that you said the universe was created implies your belief in a deity of some kind. You admit an infinite chain of causes makes no sense, but that hardly constitutes the belief in a god, who would require a cause as well. My point is that a "cause" for the universe is not explained by a deity. What's your opinion?
In my opinion, you cannot have an infinite chain of causes. If you have somehow logically justified that, please explain it to me because I cannot.
As I said I am making a case for the finite past and ultimate beginning. After we reach a consensus on that, then we can discuss what happened to cause it into existence.
Scientists and theologians can both agree that the universe has a finite past. I feel intellectually satisfied saying something above our realm of comprehension had something to do with it, rather than saying [i]nothing[/i] created the universe, it's order, fine tuning and laws. I don't think the latter would satisfy any intellectual mind, but it's all the non-theists have.
the last example (about the cards) is really not an argument that this "expert" should be using because people on Craig's side dont just say that the hand we were dealt was unlikely but it was unlikely AND the result had a massive SIGNIFICANCE. That is the key word. In other words just ask yourself why did the hand we were dealt (which is equally unlikely to every other hand) YIELD something that would not have been possible by any other hand?
Well, there would be things in these other potential universes that could only exist in them. We think that intelligent life in this universe is significant simply because we happen to be it. Terribly ego-centric.
Sure there would be things in those other universes that would only exist in them, however, many of the requirements for life would not be fullfilled (even at the chemical level)so maybe you'll have cool neon colored elements but they wont be conscious living creatures.
It should be clear now that this metaphor is a bad argument because it does not properly convey the significance of the physical constants.
This winning hand has no effect on the outside world. the writers of the rules of bridge decided to attach meaning to that hand. Even if we did not attach meaning to the physical constants, the fact remains that the constants yielded something unique: life. The unique bridge hand does not yield anything but a unique comb. of cards & an interpretation.
even if we do not interpretate the card, a sequence of increasingly large number with constant increment is in itself very unique. I have to say that we you push any analogy far enough it will break. However, I agree with gluemoae that assigning uniqueness to this universe is just impossible. we cannot even comprehend most of this universe, who could than comprehend a universe not like this one? if that's impossible, how could one say this universe is any more special than another?
I'm not a chemist/physicist, however, I would assume that the chemistry & physics would be similar. This is because all these "potential universes" would be made FROM the same matter Therefore, the resulting matter couldn't be drastically different from one universe to the next. The COMPOSITION of that matter would still be the same.
So if our understanding of chemistry & physics would still apply (because similar composition should yield similar properties) then we can say that none of these other universes could sustain life.
Of course this is all hypothetical, however, we can made decent inferences based on our understanding of the composition of matter. Maybe the Large Hadron Collider will help us get more answers.
When you see a cloud shaped as a dragon, is it because something made it look like a dragon, or are you seeing a dragon from your perspective. And if it is perspective, does it make it any less beautiful?
CrackersL 2 months ago
a mind (consciousness) creates, without it nothing will exist.
when you die and loose your thoughts what exists to you? nothing.
nothing would exist if there was no perceivers. does a rock know its a rock? does it know its on land or at the bottom of the ocean does it even know it exists?
showmethemoney716 10 months ago
@showmethemoney716 knowledge of a thing isn't the thing. Reality is what remains so even if it is never known to be so. schrodinger's cat is bullshit.
frankenshizzle 8 months ago
Can anyone answer my question?? If Religion was real, why is it born within the age of the Homo sapiens (am I right?)?? I mean, does the animals (as a part of life in the earth) even car about their existence? If we are the superior beings created by God (by his likeness or lets say his whole feature), why does some animals can be trained and can communicate to humans with simple logic? Does it mean if that animals possess traits same as humans, animals also possess traits of God? Thank you! ^_^
maliciouslykind270 10 months ago
anything with a beginnig has an end
bestinfadel 1 year ago
just about every atheist is a poof
bestinfadel 1 year ago
@bestinfadel God doesn't exist :(
wownov83 11 months ago
Was the big bang a beginning or just a change from something we don't understand to what we see around us now?
all13Doctors 1 year ago
@all13Doctors maybe, Just maybe, or it could be the collapse of another universe,into our own,nothing made, nothing lost, raises more questions though, like why is that happening, and how!
azmanabdula 1 year ago
@azmanabdula Colliding Membranes.... I thing when universes with radically different physical properties meet the result is calld a domain wave. It's a something wave, anyway.
all13Doctors 1 year ago
@all13Doctors ive heard all these, its total speculation, there might math for it, but we wont know for sure,its a strange concept, i myself would like to think im open to all scientific enquiry, as long as its scientific,in which is uses the scientific method, but i must say these theories are truely just theories, not like evolution, and the wave particle duality concept of fundamental particles. but still im open to the idea, for without ideas, what would we have!
azmanabdula 1 year ago
@azmanabdula I know what you mean... but you're confusing theory with hypothesis.
Evolution and the Standard Model are theories. The rest are hypothesis. Theory has evidence to back it up :) Sorry, just nit-picking :-D And without ideas, I think we would be very little indeed.
all13Doctors 1 year ago
@all13Doctors many would disagree, stating anything no longer a theory is either fact or false, what else is there? Comon evolution happens= true we mostly know how, some chemical reactions yet to be analyzed. but yeah, why are we arguing?
sorry!
azmanabdula 1 year ago
@azmanabdula I didn't see it as an argument. I thought it was a discussion :)
all13Doctors 1 year ago
@all13Doctors thats why, a couple beers and im into war mode! still, could it be the whole religious debate is now over, and all we have are a bunch of people still in the dark, and don't want to waste time switching on the light, even though we installed on in every house. peace good discussion~~~~~!
azmanabdula 1 year ago
@azmanabdula Aye.
all13Doctors 1 year ago
@all13Doctors where are you from anyways, wouldn't mind knowing, that is if its ok with you?
azmanabdula 1 year ago
It just hit me right now how incredibly pointless this entire argument is. If the atheist is right, I won't change my lifestyle. If the Christian is right, I won't change my lifestyle. What's the point?
craigharlow4christ 2 years ago
The point is what role, if any, religion should play in society, law and culture. You may not choose to change your lifestyle, but others may choose to change it for you, by requiring you to do something, or preventing you from doing it.
aeroldoth 1 year ago
Religion and lifestyle are two different things. Lifestyle can be touched by others, religion cannot. Your first sentence is probably right on though.
craigharlow4christ 1 year ago
Perhaps I was unclear. I was saying that religion, the institution, can exert power and influence onto society, applying its religious values onto everything. To the extent that religion has power, it can affect the lives of individuals who are forced to comply with religious values. In that sense, the validity of religion is important, in helping to clarify whether religion really should, or really shouldn't, have it's values imposed on everybody else.
aeroldoth 1 year ago
@aeroldoth Ok that made more sense. H. G. Wells had a quote that I find makes sense. "If there is no God, nothing matters. If there is a God, nothing else matters." That reflects what you are saying.
craigharlow4christ 1 year ago
Hmmmm... am I still being unclear? Your Wells quote seems a variation of Pascal's Wager, which isn't what I was referring to. My purpose was not what value religion has, IN AND OF ITSELF, but rather, what "right" religion has to dictate people's behaviours.
Many theists are opposed to abortion and gay rights, as well as other things, on religious grounds. With religion being offered as the main reason why these should be opposed, the validity of religion then becomes an important issue.
aeroldoth 1 year ago
@craigharlow4christ fear of pain after death, or an eternity of loving someone your scared of?
azmanabdula 1 year ago
so are you blaming all your sins on satan
Shaunthesushi 2 years ago
for something to exist it has to be made up of either energy and/or matter.
this is a law of physics.
no 'god' is made from either of these things , therefore
GOD DOES NOT EXIST
i know it might not sound pretty to you but its true
all u know is that your life is all u can be sure about.
so live it, and love the mysteries because theyre beautiful
mysteries dont need answers, questions need answers
and its humans that CREATE questions.
THERES NO GOD , SO STOP WORRYING & LIVE YOUR LIFE.
katysexbomb666 2 years ago
Comment removed
frubbo 2 years ago
"for something to exist it has to be made up of either energy/ and or matter. this is a law of physics"
my question, then where did the origonal particles to make the universe come from? nowhere? you are disproving that law of physics of which you just used to "debunk" (haha) the existence of God. please have a more valid arguement
bengalbengalbengal 2 years ago
i didnt say it all come from nothing did i? thats a typical veiw of a typical theist.
why dont you do some research?
Oh, and who created god? oh, ofcorse he was always there.
katysexbomb666 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
where did we come from, take the big bang theory... the universe got created from nothing... so you tell me, how did the universe get created?
concrete1213 1 year ago
then where do you propose everything came from ?
bengalbengalbengal 2 years ago
one single particle, watch videos on you tube with raichard dawkins, itll explain it better than i can
katysexbomb666 2 years ago
where did this one single particle come from?
bengalbengalbengal 2 years ago
science doesnt know that far
atleast it doesnt proclaim that it knows everything like religeon does.
one question for you, whwere did god come from?
katysexbomb666 2 years ago
where did we come from, take the big bang theory... the universe got created from nothing... so you tell me, how did the universe get create?
concrete1213 1 year ago
Why don't you research it? The big bang came from one single particle which started to split and divide. You obhiously do not know any science.
how did god get created?
katysexbomb666 1 year ago
i cant prove that god exists, nor cant you prove that, that particle made the whole universe. its a theory it never was proven. and if you can prove it. how did that one lilttle particle get created?
concrete1213 1 year ago
it was proven by the way, the big bang was proven and the universe is still expanding. religeon trys to hold back scientific research and answers, its what it has been doing for years. the catholic church put people to death when they said that men had the same no. of ribs as women and that the earth was round, eventually your theory of the earth was created by a god will be laughable to everyone including u.
how was god created???
katysexbomb666 1 year ago
They havent proven it, science always changes, and i wrote before i dont know how god got created, i dont know how those ions or whatever it was that started the earth got created. all i know is that this "war" between athiest and religion well go on till finally someone is proven wrong... so no point of arguing.... but i love it how athiest are stubborn all of the time puts a smile on my face.
concrete1213 1 year ago
@concrete1213
Do we have to remind you that the theory of gravity is not proven nor is the atomic theory. The reason why science leads to real knowledge is that we are allowed, indeed we are forced to evaluate new evidence and adjust the theories we have accordingly.
You seem to be under the misapprehension that changing your mind based on a new set of evidence is unintelligent, when in fact holding on to your previous belief in in spite of a new, better explanation is.
omegavalerius 1 year ago
@concrete1213 great question!
rz1986 1 year ago
Its a theory, but when we get to the flunk time it becomes a hypothesis. Let me give you a little though. Matter and energy can neither be created or destoryed. This means that the universe cant have been "created". The only reasonable conclusion we could do here is to say that the universe always existed.
peronkop 1 year ago
@katysexbomb666 point is, where did this single particle came from, who cares what came about after. This particle is a physical matter from what I understand, then was it just sitting there in a dimensionless space and one day decide I should pop?
rz1986 1 year ago
@rz1986 scientists don't know that yet, they dont claim to. Science is constantly discovering and learning about the universe. It is proved that it started from one particle so you can't dispute that. Don't make unjustifyable claims like 'god did it'. Save a step, and remain skeptical until it is proven. Plus even if a creator did make the universe (probobly not) it doesnt mean its a god. Don't believe everything your told.
katysexbomb666 1 year ago
@katysexbomb666 Ofcourse scientist dont know what came before that but then again this argument doesn't disprove God either. There was a time people would have thought you're a dumbass to believe the Earth is round as they believed it to be flat. Point being, things that may seem certain may not be the case, next day you may figure out everything you believed was BS due to some new discovery. I think your problem is that you are probably trying to picture God to be in some shape or form
rz1986 1 year ago
@rz1986 you are completely OBLIVIOUS to the facts. Do you know what a god is? Heres the definition AN OBJECT OF WORSHIP. Even if there was a creater it might not be a god. It might cease to exist, the possibilities are endless. Therefor we must remain sceptical until things are proven. Will you ignore the theory of gravity just because 'there might be something that comes up in the future'?
katysexbomb666 1 year ago
@katysexbomb666 Either way you look at it, the supernatural is something outside the reference of time and space, you cannot create or initiate something and bound yourself within it, thats common sense. ANd if the universe existed forever, then you wouldnt be here.You got nothing in terms of logic and you are just repeating utter BS that you clearly dont understand yourself. You are just a religion hater and angry.. go kill yourself cuz u came from nothing and will go to nothing :)
rz1986 1 year ago
@katysexbomb666 and its hard to grasp such a picture. However even the thiests do not know what form God is in, he is eternal, dimensionless, not bounded by space and time and the absolute. Theoretically if you say the universe always existed then if that was the case we wouldnt be here today because we'd be waiting for time preceding us to unfold first. That can only mean time and space came from something beyond description, supernatural and some super being we cannot imagine.
rz1986 1 year ago
@katysexbomb666 But to say that Big bang initiated from a particle and all that are again just THEORIES!! So dont believe it like its a fact. Just like that example of the world being flat. Like you say dont believe in everything you are told.
rz1986 1 year ago
@rz1986 you need to stop reading biased creationist crap. this is the definition of a theory -a wellsubstantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world.I'm done with you, you are extremely naive and dumb.
And wtf are you talking about? SCIENCE proved the earth was round while scientists were being HANGED for centuries by corrupt religious cults. Wether you accept it or not evolution and the big bang are PROVEN, just cause it doesn't say it in a bronze age book about talking snakes.
katysexbomb666 1 year ago
@katysexbomb666 HAHA lmaooo @ proven. Im naive?? lmaoo. You are not an athiest instead your hate for people with faith and religion is obvious. On the other hand religious people like me have no problems with people like you, you are free to choose your own religion, but appaerntly the so called 'free thinkers' such as yourself are having trouble accepting 'freedom of faith'. Yes thats a contradiction. Man read you own definition, clearly theory is not proof, you're just a dumbass
rz1986 1 year ago
theories and facts are equally valid. Theories are often even more valueable than facts.
peronkop 1 year ago
@peronkop you're a bright lad. Why don't you twist more definitions to prove your point.
rz1986 1 year ago
Because I know that definitions wont work on you.
peronkop 1 year ago
@peronkop The fact remains, the human cannot comprehend outside its capacity. We cannot fathom concepts that require us to think past space and time and therefore humans can only come up with theories but NOT prove with hard facts regarding our existence. However this eternal time doesn't make sense whatsoever and the idea of a supernatural doesn't sit in the head of athiests like you. So what do you suggest? You think science will one day come out and reveal the secrets of this universe?
rz1986 1 year ago
@peronkop when science itself is bounded by the advancements of human who are again bounded by the reality of time and space. Imagine one day you finally are able to figure out the beginning of everything, but that again wouldn't stop there because there must have been a predecessor lmaoo. It will never stop and no phenomenon science can explain is responsible for our happening. It is only therefore natural and logical to believe in some supernatural design
rz1986 1 year ago
My rebottle to that is: you cant possibly claim these things if you don't apply the same rules to this supernatural designer. Thats special pleading.
peronkop 1 year ago
Whos gods dad?
LegendaryLvl1 2 years ago
he just needs to create something " sciencetifically " from nothing and we all will may believe his arrugment.period.
wanagj 2 years ago
come from nothing to nothing for nothing !! how someone talks " sciencetifically " could say or think like that.?
wanagj 2 years ago
As strange as it sounds, "Something can pop into existence out of nothing", please read Deep Simplicity by John Gribbin. In it he explains the quantuum science underlying the principle that "something" (i.e. the complexity of life) is the inevitable outcome of "nothing" (i.e. chaos). The world is stranger than we imagine it to be - our "gut", hopes and intuition are not good tools for understanding it.
daleshankins 2 years ago 2
@minase0906
Wow, looks like you like believing in a lot of things...
thewarrior357 2 years ago
@minase0906
Did you know that NDEs occurred in different ways to people of different religions? A documentary showed Hindus experiencing "Yamraj", the God of death, Buddhists experiencing being close to Buddha, etc. Does this mean that ALL the religions are true? No it doesn't, it means NDEs are not a reliable source of any evidence.
Just because you think the evidence is "strong" doesn't mean we all do.
thewarrior357 2 years ago
@minase0906
Will reply to you after seeing the "documentary".
thewarrior357 2 years ago
@minase0906
Funny how you didn't even try to answer my question.
thewarrior357 2 years ago
I'll be honest, I didn't even watch the video. I don't feel it's worth my time. I dismiss the idea of a God, 'cause it just seems like complete garbage. Maybe I wouldn't be an Atheist if there was actually a decent amount evidence to support the idea of God.
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
Proves? No.
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
I'm not going to watch that video because it's probably going to be a person who says he saw God or whatever when he was about to die...
If life after death is "proven", then why isn't it coming on the news? Why isn't it being accepted in science?
thewarrior357 2 years ago
Only a liberal can believe such nonsense as an uncaused universe.
Making decisions based on FEELINGS rather than LOGIC
toobsucker 2 years ago
@toobsucker
Wow what an idiot. You're dumbing the whole of humanity down dude.
thewarrior357 2 years ago
@thewarrior357 I am dumbing down humanity?
YOU are the one that believes THIS
watch?v=3QSNSP5S2SA&feature=related
Happened by random chance
YOU are the one that believes
Detailed specific information can arise from randomness (mutations)
YOU are the one that believes
A DIGITAL CODE in (DNA) can write its self even though we have NO EXAMPLES that a digital code can be written without an intelligence behind it. You have no examples of your theory in
action.
toobsucker 2 years ago
@toobsucker
Yeah, what a completely new Argument from Increduility.
thewarrior357 2 years ago
what a weirdo, dont think ill ask him to babysit
rotnob 2 years ago
Your name is "ponkadolz" which makes no sense. You've been on YouTube since May of 2006. You've watched close to 2,300 videos. I do believe you have just labeled you yourself as a "dork/jerkhead". Haha.
SurfToLoudMusic 2 years ago
theists believe in a god, atheist go not believe in the existence of a god. all of us have freewill so we can choose to believe whatever we want and nobody has the right to force to believe something that we refuse to believe. what's the point of debationg anyway? specially here on youtube where dorks and jerkheads spend their leisure time. LOL
ponkadolz 2 years ago
I can't wait for the day science explains how it all started, then what will religious people say? It seems like that's the only thing they can grab onto as "evidence" against atheists. Religion is utter bollocks
anetchi 2 years ago
Define what the "it" is that science will explain. The very fact that something requires explanation, automatically creates room for doubt. I'm afraid your science will just lead us down the next avenue of "not knowing", "researching", and my favorite, "applying logic".
fatchickskinny 2 years ago
so if the creator was so perfect, why are there flaws in many regards. if we were "created in gods image" why is the human machine SO INEFFICIENT?
Pikee 2 years ago
Sin.
The fall of man.
Why should i have to state this? it should be known even if you DON'T believe it, for debating.
It happened after Lucifer fell from heaven and tempted Eve with the fruit of the knowledge of Good and Evil. She ate it and disobeyed God. Adam soon followed.
It is after they fell from God when everything that was perfect, fell into a sinful world.
I know that much anyway.
Inuyashapaladin717 2 years ago
Can god get rid of lucifer at any time?
Yes- god is a dick by any moral standard other than his own (unless he considers himself a dick)
No- he is not almighty
Did god know what would happen to man yet create things that way anyway?
Yes- he is a dick or not almighty
No- he is not all knowing
Any way you look at it, if god exists he is either a complete a-hole by any human standard (just look at some of the other things god did and told people to do) or not the god of the bible
kevinscales 2 years ago
i can't agree with you on that, because we do not know what he has intend for us in the end.
The, God can destroy Lucifer at any time, but God also allows him to live. For what reason, no body knows, but he is allowing him for a reason. God is not stupid. I know this, or i would not be here today.
Yes, God did know what would happen to man, yet he created us anyway out of love. He wanted beings that had free will to come and love him, and for him to love. Thats they way love works.
Inuyashapaladin717 2 years ago
You say we don't know what he has intended for us in the end, but we do know what happens to people in life and it looks to me like some people get the good stuff and others get raped. And it seems pretty random how that works, so with all the evidence we have, god is a dick. Eternal torment after death for those who don't believe? The least he could do is provide a little verifiable evidence.
kevinscales 2 years ago
@Inuyashapaladin717: "God is not stupid. I know this, or i would not be here today." Then it MUST BE that YOU Are STUPID!!!
primelimelite 2 years ago
You call me stupid, yet you don't even know my own story. You, 'friend', are a fool for saying such a thing..
Inuyashapaladin717 2 years ago
Darkness gives light half of its glory.
The bottom determines half of the level in which the top is at
toobsucker 2 years ago
do0rkn0b,
Have you by any chance heard of the United States of America?
KaraBear567 2 years ago
almost every country in europe is that way too
seabrain 2 years ago
Good point - very true.
KaraBear567 2 years ago
Dr. Craig list a lobbyist.
wefm1987 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Philosophy, is an amazing gift of evolution, that has been Given to us by God, what we see as a million years, God would see in a blink of an eye, but even the blink of an eye is controlled by time, and that doesnt apply to God.
ferretmaster22 2 years ago
we should seriously create a nation dedicated to wishing for what you want, ship these black book tools over there, and see what they accomplish.
"Two hands working can do more than a thousand clasped in prayer."
do0rkn0b 2 years ago
And Atheism is a philosophy against God. LOL
Bob1agis 2 years ago
You must be kidding ehh?
lordofhispania1 2 years ago
We know from our experience that everything that begins to exist has a cause, so we can take the illogical approach and believe in infinite regression or take the unimaginable approach and say there is an infinite (timeless) god. There may be some beliefs in between there but you get my point.
MiracleOfRealism 2 years ago
I want to hear the religious guy say why previous religions and gods, ie greek, egytian, roman, and why the stories are so similar and why they are wrong. Betcha anything he couldn't do it.
mdkelly123 2 years ago
1. Not enough logical proof that would be used as a defense. Christianity and Judaism do.
2. Christianity explain a beginning and reasons for it and use logical viewing standpoints to debate and defend. The old religions, however, did not have a way.
3. The old religions did not even come up with origins for their gods/goddesses in many many many MANY cases. Nor the reasoning for why they created human beings. Christianity does.
Inuyashapaladin717 2 years ago
This atheist said that Craig agrees with science up to a point and then discards it.
The fact is I have talked to many atheist and atheist agrees with science to a certain point also. They have said some of science is just a theory, "science is just a theory not a fact".
Farmer4Christ 2 years ago
That gravity exists is a fact, theories about gravity explain how gravity works.
In the same way evolution is a fact, the theory of evolution explains how evolution occurs.
hopokuk 2 years ago
That is an ignorant statement...nothing is a fact, there are only probabilities of something being true in this universe, science tells us that. As for evolution most people agree yes it happened there is mountains of evidence supporting it, as for gravity we though we understood it, when in reality we are beginning to realize we dont fully,....this is where those probability come about.
crazymuthaphukr 2 years ago
Evolution is just a bunch of theories not true facts. You talk about gravity, tell us where gravity came from.
Farmer4Christ 2 years ago
Yes I agree, evolution is technically a bunch of theories and hypothesis, but the evidence for it is mountainous and we can most certainly be sure it did happen (scientifically) . As for gravity know one really knows where gravity comes from, we though we understood it but are just realizing we dont. Im not sure what your trying to point out, because I am a Christian and believe in the Christian God.
crazymuthaphukr 2 years ago
which is a Jewish god rip-off which is a rip-off of pagan gods from the middle east desert people
lordofhispania1 2 years ago
Agreed CMP.
We do not have the knowledge or the abilities to understand or begin to understand how ANY of the scientific laws came into being, whats keeping them going and balanced, AND why they exist in the first place. However, logical standpoints of this suggest that they are finely tuned to fit in our existence so that we CAN EXIST.That's just one of the many parts that gets me. If any of the scientific laws are slightly changed, then not could really exist that could acknowledge existence.
Inuyashapaladin717 2 years ago
I agree with you up until you say 'However'. You could also say that WE are finely tuned to fit into this universe. When you think about it this is the only reason why anything exists, because it is the only thing that could have come into existence and that point in space and time under the conditions at that point. Evolution is the process we understand to have done our fine-tuning since the begining of life on earth. We 'are' because the universe 'is' not the other way around.
kevinscales 2 years ago
Q"Other possibilities"
Sometimes when I slip into temptation and go out with friend who drink and don't go to church, then I think perhaps it is all a scam. But I speak to my church leader and he tells me to pray for faith.
hopokuk 2 years ago
And then so I went into the pentecostal church and they were all rolling around on the floor speaking in tongues and prophecy - what else could that be but the Holy Ghost?
hopokuk 2 years ago
Well one day I was walking down the street smoking a spliff and this man with a beard and long hair wearing a white rag stumble into me, and he said 'I need to get my arse into gear' and as he walked on he said 'Jesus man, Jesus man'. This was outside a pentecostal church so I thought perhaps that the bearded man must have been Jesus.
hopokuk 2 years ago
Yes. If you have read the bible 3 times then you would know that near the End Time that no one would believe anymore because they would believe in a lie. Satan would fool with false miracles (like modern technology like television and this internet).
hopokuk 2 years ago
If my God was false then my faith would be in vain and if I have only one life and then thats it - that would mean I have wasted all of my life so far, and there would be no point going on living anymore...
hopokuk 2 years ago
A strong angel will sound a trumpet and then it will be too late for you. the strong angel sounds from the sea on the east. It is all revealed in the book of Revelation.
Atheism is fake because they have been made to believe in a lie (the scientific method)
hopokuk 2 years ago
And you haven't been made to believe a lie? The only reason you believe in God is because people from the past believed in God. If those people believed stongly in something else, then you'd probably have the same beliefs and this same argument would change accordingly. So, how is religion correct? No proof = no real argument.
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
Are you claiming that the Bible is not the word of God? Do you claim that Jesus was a liar? A lunatic? Can you prove this?
I believe in God because otherwise there is no explanation for where life and the laws of physics came from.
Not all religions are correct, only the one I believe in. You have to believe in it as well, if the Almighty Lord comes back tonight and catches you playing FPS he will show you no mercy because you did not heed the good news.
hopokuk 2 years ago
You're excalty the type of person i hate most. You cannot say that your religion it true. Nor can anyone else, no matter what they believe. There's absolutely no evidence of Gods existence, so you have no point. There's also evidence to show that Christianity actually adopted some of its holidays, including Chritmas, so what does that tell you? I'm an atheist because i actually have a reason to think the way that i do. You have no excuse for being a blind, ignorant moron.
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
You hate me because you follow Satan. My religion is true because the Bible says it is. The immoral behaviour of atheists and people of all other religions and the moral behaviour of Christians is evidence that the the Christian bible god is real. CHristmas is when baby Jesus was born to die for our sins. Your 'reason' is a delusion. You have been fooled by that antichrist Richard Dawkins and co.
hopokuk 2 years ago
Youtube apparently hates me, so lets go again. I don't follow Satan. I follow nothing except what my rational thinking brain tells me to. You clearly have no knowledge of your own religion, otherwise you wouldn't even be here right now, having this argument. I can tell you that Christmas is not when Jesus was born. It was celebrated by other religions before Jesus was apparently born, so basically, Christianity isn't only wrong, it's a thief. This also make you a thief and your life is pointless
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
That because Satan pre-empted Jesus birth with his own fake festivals. Your "rational thinking brain" is your free will and you are using it to reject God.
hopokuk 2 years ago
I feel like i'm becoming less intelligent just by reading your comments. You're clearly an idiot. Don't you know that your brain is there so that you can think for yourself? Try using it and maybe you'll stop fighting the inevitibale. God doesn't exist, Satain doesn't exist, there's no one else controlling my thoughts or actions. We are here, on Earth now. We get one life, so make use of it instead of believing in fairy tales.
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
Typing error.
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
Okay, I'll come clean now.
I AM AN ATHEIST
I was playing Poe's Law.
hopokuk 2 years ago
You'd better be having a laugh. I was in the middle of some serious fun there.
Kenwyne3546 2 years ago
Ahaha, after your first post I figured you were joking. Then again, I always think Christians are joking when they spout their stupidity with a straight face.
SlyStonedFunkyMonk 2 years ago
No, the calenders are different in the Bible - a lunar calendar is used and that is give shorter years so you have to add up the revealed years to get the correct date.
You are a caveman because you you believe what Darwin said that we evolved from cavemen.
hopokuk 2 years ago
There won't be any 2k years from now because on Easter in 2039 Our Lord is going to come flying back down again and all you atheist cavemen will be f@@ked because it will be too late to start believing then.
hopokuk 2 years ago
Another thing,
I myself (never read the bible, fully) but I believe what good people tell me, a priest for example !, I also beleieve in the 10 commandments, I believe that religion is a gift from God to follow to be a better person, so that you can reach heaven,
I dont fully follow it, but I DO try my best, as for religion, so many Religions ehh?, but wouldnt it be boring if there was only 1?, and as with wars with religion, think about it, its not religion that starts wars,
its man.
ferretmaster22 2 years ago
hahaha, using typo mistakes as an attacking defence, you know what that shows, you dont have much intellect :D.
ferretmaster22 2 years ago
LMAO, well then, if they believed in SO many other Gods, then that was there beliefs, im guessing, they had a god of vengence, a God of rain, a God of war, im not far of right??, but they were wrong, because there only is 1 God, who is forever lasting, beyond time, beyond matter, beyond your imagination, and im far from blind m8, I take on the ideology of a Thiesist, you Athiests are what I like to say, not thinking outside the Box. your todays cave men, stubborn and just ignorent to the truth
ferretmaster22 2 years ago
God is God, he has always excisted, maybe thats just what there name for God was back in them days "Zeus", same way different Religions These days have different names for God, but God has always been, even before time and the Universe, he is not controlled by the rules of the universe, he is above and beyond them, as He made them.
ferretmaster22 2 years ago
Certain microscopic sub particles actually do emerge out of nothingness, briefly separate, reemerge back into one particle, and then go back into nothingness. It just doesnt make any sense. But I dont think that this is evidence for a God, I just think its really weird. I don't think it's sufficient to posit that someone outside of space time snapped it into existence out of nothing. Its really just proof of the mysterious nature of the universe, as opposed to the nature of a creator.
andben846 2 years ago
Hmm. He's speaking intelligently. I prefer the 'Universe is in a constant state of flux' theory as opposed to 'the universe has a beginning' theory.
It states that the Universe is in a constant state of expansion and contraction. The forces that are expanding the universe at the moment, are being counteracted by Gravity, a constant force, and will eventually cause it to collapse, forming another Big Bang at some point in the future.
It holds that the 'Bang' has happened more than once.
carrotsan 2 years ago
No thats a good question, he was really believed in, in Scandinavia for close to millennium, in other words, the viking years
Brenaim 2 years ago
sigh* in order for somthing to click, its needs somthing to flick, what this guy is doing is going round and round in circles, but the facts of the basis end with somthing started it
ferretmaster22 2 years ago
And you claim it was the Judeo Christain god? why not the god of thunder: Thor, he is way cooler, has his own comic book
Brenaim 2 years ago
is thor a real God, or was he made up by human comics?, just asking, dont get to hysterical
ferretmaster22 2 years ago
you apply that logic to science, but not to your god. You imagine your god does not need to apply to time, because he has "always been"
i apply that same logic to the universe. It has always been. Any argument for good under that reasoning is absurd.
Thundermonk99 2 years ago
Finally somebody stumps the smarmy, amateurish, superficial and scientifically deeply ignorant Dr. Craig!
robindesade 3 years ago
For the last few hundred years scientists (back to Maxwell and perhaps earlier) have found the 3 dimensional space inadequate so he theorized a 4 spatial dimensional cosmology. So my point is, rather than saying - the methods we accept cannot explain this - so there it has always been, we could also say the cause was operating at a higher dimension or higher set of laws. Our finite brains have hit a brick wall - but what is behind it?
MiracleOfRealism 3 years ago
I am not sure if that is getting to the point you are after or not? If not, let me know and we can further hone this discussion.
I didn't mean any offense when I boldly claimed that his argument was absurd. I did honestly think that it was apparent to everyone that ever effect has a cause and ever cause has a cause (back to the beginning of causes - then we are stuck lol)
MiracleOfRealism 3 years ago
I think the universe is universal i.e. it was there forever ago and will be there forever later. If we ignore how the matter got there (assuming that it was always there or at least that it got there somehow) then everything else could have just developed from that. If by cause you mean scientifically, then a supernatural being is pprobably the least scientifically plausible answer. I cannot think of anyother causes to the universe so i figure it was alyas there.
leptir99 3 years ago
As I said, instead of invoking an idea that does go beyond all observed phenomena, I think it's more reasonable to say it was supernatural. That is to say - if the laws of the universe don't seem to correlate with your premise, maybe there are laws above or outside our universe. You don't need to invoke a god(s), although I have no problem with it.
MiracleOfRealism 3 years ago
The whole cards example is absurd. He is assuming he already has a deck from which to play. Sorry bud, where did your deck come from? (of course I doubt he will hope onto youtube to answer lol, but it's more probable that the garbage he is spewing)
MiracleOfRealism 3 years ago
If the earths air was half sulfur, im sure that life could still live here, it would just be capable to deal with or use that element.
leptir99 3 years ago
What a terrible argument. There is no reason to believe that their was no cause to the universe? Contrary to ALL physics and ALL known science, he believes that our universe had no cause. Yes, atheism is such a rational and logical position. Invoke a God or what have you, saying that absolutely nothing caused this universe is the most laughable and irrational concept presented by mankind. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
MiracleOfRealism 3 years ago
Second only to the idea of god. I don't know why people seem to think that the universe ever did not exist. And if the universe came from god, where did god come from (bet you heard that one a few times)
leptir99 3 years ago
the creator of energy, time and matter could not be constricted by his very own creation. simply put, if there was a creator he would be infinite in age; he would not be constricted by time because he would have created the space-time continuum.
EP4LFC 3 years ago
Why would that be laughable or irrational? What information have you got that lets you *KNOW*, for a fact, that something created the universe?
leptir99 3 years ago
I never said I KNOW something created the universe. I simply said that assuming it happened without a cause goes against everything we have ever observed in nature. In other words, he has just as much faith as the theist, and he has science AGAINST what he believes, they don't. THAT is why it's laughable and irrational.
MiracleOfRealism 3 years ago
Show me what there is in nature that science has proven that something caused? Seriously, stop with the baseless statements which you seem to think are self evident and obvious to all. Thats not a personal attack, it's constructive critisicm. WHAT in nature was caused by WHAT, and don't just say that 'science' goes against something, science never goes against anything, it changes constantly and you should mention the specific branch of science that contradicts what he is saying.
leptir99 3 years ago
Physics - neurology - chemistry - physiology - cosmology
What triggers a neuron? Some sort of stimuli, what causes that? What caused that? Etc.
Any event that I can conceive is a long chain of causes. All physical processes, all chemical reactions, so forth. 1. Every finite and contingent being has a cause. 2. Nothing finite and contingent can cause itself. 3. A causal chain cannot be of infinite length. 4. Therefore, a First Cause (or something that is not an effect) must exist.
MiracleOfRealism 3 years ago
a first cause is a hypocritical statement. Why do you not apply that logic to a god? I'm assuming you suggest that the god is not subject to such laws, which is simply not logical.
Thundermonk99 2 years ago
What do you mean about applying logic to god?
MiracleOfRealism 2 years ago
you say that the universe "must" have been created, and it could not have existed forever, but don't apply that logic to a god, who seemingly existed forever. That isn't logical.
Thundermonk99 2 years ago
It is science coupled with logic. Science seems to be telling us the universe had a beginning in the finite past. Logic tells me that all events have a cause, so the creation of the universe had a cause. That was the point I was making. I don't recall ever mentioning god as you brought up. In addition, logic leads to my conclusion not yours. An actual infinite chain of causes is in fact, illogical.
MiracleOfRealism 2 years ago
the fact that you said the universe was created implies your belief in a deity of some kind. You admit an infinite chain of causes makes no sense, but that hardly constitutes the belief in a god, who would require a cause as well. My point is that a "cause" for the universe is not explained by a deity. What's your opinion?
Thundermonk99 2 years ago
In my opinion, you cannot have an infinite chain of causes. If you have somehow logically justified that, please explain it to me because I cannot.
As I said I am making a case for the finite past and ultimate beginning. After we reach a consensus on that, then we can discuss what happened to cause it into existence.
MiracleOfRealism 2 years ago
ultimate beginning is the real issue. To imply a beginning is just as awkward as stating that there cannot be an infinite chain of causes.
thats where i find no answer. I don't really think that anyone can.
Thundermonk99 2 years ago
Scientists and theologians can both agree that the universe has a finite past. I feel intellectually satisfied saying something above our realm of comprehension had something to do with it, rather than saying [i]nothing[/i] created the universe, it's order, fine tuning and laws. I don't think the latter would satisfy any intellectual mind, but it's all the non-theists have.
MiracleOfRealism 2 years ago
great debate the atheist uses facts and does not involve emotion which pretty much fucks all logic great example : love
xNewAgeWarriorx 3 years ago
the last example (about the cards) is really not an argument that this "expert" should be using because people on Craig's side dont just say that the hand we were dealt was unlikely but it was unlikely AND the result had a massive SIGNIFICANCE. That is the key word. In other words just ask yourself why did the hand we were dealt (which is equally unlikely to every other hand) YIELD something that would not have been possible by any other hand?
EP4LFC 3 years ago
Well, there would be things in these other potential universes that could only exist in them. We think that intelligent life in this universe is significant simply because we happen to be it. Terribly ego-centric.
gluemoae 3 years ago
Sure there would be things in those other universes that would only exist in them, however, many of the requirements for life would not be fullfilled (even at the chemical level)so maybe you'll have cool neon colored elements but they wont be conscious living creatures.
EP4LFC 3 years ago
and a hand of 13 cards of the same suit would result in a win for the player in bridge.
so you are saying all bridge games are designed by God?
pody42 3 years ago
It should be clear now that this metaphor is a bad argument because it does not properly convey the significance of the physical constants.
This winning hand has no effect on the outside world. the writers of the rules of bridge decided to attach meaning to that hand. Even if we did not attach meaning to the physical constants, the fact remains that the constants yielded something unique: life. The unique bridge hand does not yield anything but a unique comb. of cards & an interpretation.
EP4LFC 3 years ago
even if we do not interpretate the card, a sequence of increasingly large number with constant increment is in itself very unique. I have to say that we you push any analogy far enough it will break. However, I agree with gluemoae that assigning uniqueness to this universe is just impossible. we cannot even comprehend most of this universe, who could than comprehend a universe not like this one? if that's impossible, how could one say this universe is any more special than another?
pody42 3 years ago
I'm not a chemist/physicist, however, I would assume that the chemistry & physics would be similar. This is because all these "potential universes" would be made FROM the same matter Therefore, the resulting matter couldn't be drastically different from one universe to the next. The COMPOSITION of that matter would still be the same.
EP4LFC 3 years ago
So if our understanding of chemistry & physics would still apply (because similar composition should yield similar properties) then we can say that none of these other universes could sustain life.
EP4LFC 3 years ago
Of course this is all hypothetical, however, we can made decent inferences based on our understanding of the composition of matter. Maybe the Large Hadron Collider will help us get more answers.
EP4LFC 3 years ago