Justice: What's The Right Thing To Do? Episode 11: "THE CLAIMS OF COMMUNITY"

[MrHoodedCrow]

O... He forgot Patrick's name... :(

[crollmarketing]

That guy' a Kant

[socksnundies]

I always pause at the half time breaks and go get a cup of coffee cos I have to be fully awake to understand this stuff. One day I will be clever like these dudes. Woo hoo!

[Sonicthehedgehog73]

Anyone else notice the guy at 22:04 who is falling asleep? haha.

[johniswetodddid]

look at friedmans video "Freedom not to Act"

[johniswetodddid]

friedman, who is not an austrain also said "we need freedom in my opinion first becuase we can never know we are right, and there for we have no right to force our views on others." he is clearly hinting at the fact, that their is a limitation on our knowledge. & we need humility. how would a communitarian respond? I think it's a fools arrend to try and plan a good life, esp when it has been tried again and again w/ failure. If anyone can give a counter arguement i would appreciate it.

[johniswetodddid]

I have a question for the communitarians. If you look at the insight of F.A. Hayek for example, and in large the austrian school, they emphisize the importance of the knowledge probelm. The reason they say socialism fails, is b/c it is impossible to obtain all the knowledge to plan millions of interactions. Thus, that is why we need a pricing system under private property. Look at milton friedmans example of the pencial. Thus, if we can't plan an economy, how could be possibly plan a good life?

[davekeays]

Unfortunately, loyalty to humanity was presented by one student as the highest moral grounds. I have friends that would question that; animals, nature, all things living including insects, all things with a soul including crystals. I say we choose which we align ourselves with and in what priority.

[trombokinase]

its so awkward to see both professor and student holding the microphone at the same time. soooo awkward!!

[davekeays]

@trombokinase I noticed professor Sandel stumbled and used his notes more on this episode than any before (at least according to my memory). Maybe he had a bad night or a close call in his car that stole his concentration.

[swhhalo1234]

What about wanting to breakaway from certain specific norms of the societal background you come from? Must I adhere to everything?

[offshall]

actuly i prefer stay alone without any interaction with the bad soul could be harmful with my own soul oh i forget the teacher is less known about soul power or limit

[nanopavan]

Bad Parent!! Nice way to say I dont have one !!!!

[infrahate]

@nanopavan in a way it is isn't it? By definition "bad parent" means lack there of, or lack of support.

[HijabCouture]

Professor Sandel remembered Raul's name, woo!

[atommybee]

julia looks like amanda knox

[ericfontainejazz]

word of the day @ time 10:40 "voluntaryist"

[lightandbeautiful]

Please visit my channel for the unpopular truth about homosexuality.

A person does not need hatred or any kind of phobia in order to acknowledge important, qualitative differences between heterosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption and homosexual attraction / behavior / marriage / adoption.

Homosexual activists, with complete support from the media, have succeeded at framing themselves as noble victims and martyrs; it's an effective way to push a social agenda.

[Durhandoni80]

Part 1 2.200.000 - Part 11 90.000 = 2.110.000 thought there is a narrowminded easy answer to the question what´s the right thing to do?

[KhemAndKurami]

@Durhandoni80 Or maybe they just didn't have the time to finish off the series...

[kshep1983]

Patriotism is not equivalent to allegiance to a particular political condition. It is, instead, a loyalty to the welfare of the citizens. Undermining or voicing opposition to unjust government action is in accordance with true patriotism.

[decmasta]

this is the best episode of the series

[grapefruitgrove]

It seems to me that the thinkers we've heard from up until now, in thinking in universal terms, were implicitly supporting our communal obligation to the community of humankind. I believe the intuitive attraction we have to subdivisions of this global community is entirely due to the fact that they are microcosms of that great community - ones whose faces are familiar to us and who may grant us direct comfort and support. And here the distinction between family and universe becomes paper thin.

[primeyuri]

the idea that thinking you are obligated to take people around you above others is nothing more than thinking the people you know are worth more than others. it is the cause for both world wars and the terrorist acts today.

[davekeays]

@primeyuri My mother had more to do with building me and my character than anyone here on youtube (unless she's present) so I love my mother more. However,I am not obligated to love anyone and I am not obligated to be loyal to any group. I have a choice. It is not just membership. I cannot choose my parents, but I can choose to be an active member of my family.

[tim1234ist]

In the second part of the lecture, in order to get students' response to different arguments, we should always take peers pressure into consideration.

[Melki]

@tim1234ist I agree

[blogger365]

Rina, 23:00 is from the Philippines.

[blogger365]

Nicola is stealing the show. Jejeje

[jonnyonebit]

hee hee hee....he said Doody!

[longfootbuddy]

plenty of confederates fought for freedom from the union's unfair taxes and violations of rights.. preserving the union is a pretty way of saying, imprisoning the southern states.. they use black slavery as a distraction from the real goal of the war, which was to preserve the union... another example of people being forced into contract with the government

[Melki]

in this forum nicola is my hero. You need the whole humanity to support particular communities. If some communities won't support the whole existence of us, then they were not participating in the sustainability of not only us but also themselves.

[IneffableLifestyle]

@Melki a true statement in itself but not a reply to the following consequences of the question which nicola tried to answer, but sadly failed to do. Nicola solved nothing with her answer.

[Melki]

@IneffableLifestyle if I use Nicola's solution when faced with conflicting obligations, I would made my decisions by how I would give thanks to my providers of solutions. So if they were to go to war with each other, I would just go away off of them and grow some rice. Yes in this illustration they were providers of my life solutions, thats why by not participating in the fight I'm being loyal to them because instead of destroying, I help them, I don't care if they say I didn't, I knew I'd did.

[IneffableLifestyle]

@Melki but say all participants did this. Which would have to be the goal of the ideology. You would not solve the problem. If two communities are in a conflict over a piece of land, choosing "humanity over community" solves nothing, evading the conflict by growing some rice doesnt solve the conflict you only avoid it.

[Melki]

@IneffableLifestyle you got a real point there. I admit its not always going to be as simple as "growing rice", but generally the priority is to support more mutual solutions than to cause problems. Solutions could be discovered out of various point of views depending on the cases. What I'm saying is its not fair for you to expect a statement which and which to support. Detailed considerations would be different each time.

[CuntryDriver]

Which country's government is mentioned at [15:54]?

[MartenThuren]

Seems to me that there is an intrinsic value in tradition here. Communities are essentially non-zero-sum games where we play the socially good move because we expect others to do the same. If we don't know how other people will play, the social good would be erradicated quickly. At the same time, we can change to the better by better traditions and wider "areas" of community, I guess this makes me a structural conservative?

[davekeays]

@MartenThuren As long as someone is benefiting from living in a society then they have some obligations like obeying laws and not impeding collective efforts like national defense.

[fonsidream]

42:47 US attorney said "... Mr. ...", meaning addressed the fictional STATUS.

Obviously, STATUS given by a society has obligation to the society, than the brother of the people (man), the said status represented.

In turn the sovereign man can define his rights to have obligation to his brother, and not to have obligation to the society members or fellow people.

[favorited1]

haha girl sleeping at 34:00

[TheMeganicenick]

I talked about war (below) but it can be applied to smaller aspects. For ex. although I live in US I'll 1st donate to poor communities in Africa and Asia than U.S. b/c there's a lot of opportunity here govt. of US provides to its ppl than developing countries. The child of a laborer in Pakistan has no opportunity to come up the poverty line b/c its how the govt. is set up. They can't go to school like children here b/c they first have to earn $ so they can eat & then there's no $ for a good edu.

[davekeays]

@TheMeganicenick there are people living in poverty and distress in the back woods in missouri.

[TheMeganicenick]

Family excluded, there should be only world or human patriotism. Ppl pay taxes in all countries, then how's it just to kill members of another country claiming it's mandatory to protect ppl living nearer to us than ppl who live a bit further. Humans r same, we bleed same color, have same emotions, all die, etc. This mantality is why there were discriminations in U.S. few decades ago & still in other parts. Which scientific evidence proves Chinese ppl don't love their family as much as Americans?

[davekeays]

@TheMeganicenick and some want to take my life, consider me a soulless insect to be stomped on, and that I'm the reason for their misery or for the demise of the world. I am convinced that some political systems others are living in would hurt me more than help me and the collective forces feel a moral obligation to force me to live in the "proper" manner.

[AnnalisaBarragan5887]

For this mp3 go to audofier doht cohm.

[mwyee]

Dan's example should not be taken into account because the consequence of not turning in his college mate is not that detrimental to the university as compared to loyalty to a serious morality breach.

[yuiarakaki]

Not just about membership, peopleeee. It's far more likely that members of Franklin TX paid taxes and contributed to the well-being of the country, whereas Franklin Mexico residents didn't. Same thing for your parents as opposed to some random person's parents. Weird.

[fonsidream]

@yuiarakaki

Tax are collected on what they own.

Government own citizens (public slaves).

Why not people contribute as a donation or membership fees, instead of mandatory tax, on behalf of their person (citizen)?

[andyx1205]

Patriotism is irrational in that one considers their country better than other countries simply because of the blind luck that the individual was born in that country rather than another.

[brandy1999]

@andyx1205

You clearly confuse patriotism with nationalism. One who considers himself as a patriot does not claim that his country is better or deserves more than other countries but is willing to dedicate his abilities, whatever these would be, to improve the quality of one's country. Shortly speaking, if I am a patriot then I feel the bond between myself and my country and I ackonwledge its needs ex. to defend itself from exterior threat.

[stevidawnk]

When he writes another book

[modularfish]

In practice, patriotism in America is a way of coercing Americans in blind conformity by appealing to there sentiment of 'love' for there country. For example, the sept11 saga and its use in the justification of the war in Irak.

According to this video, patriotism is comparable to the love you feel for your parents LMAO.

For the rest of the video the discussion got narrowed down to patriotism, as if that can teach us anything about morality.

[sbwprotoss]

"According to this video, patriotism is comparable to the love you feel for your parents LMAO."

on a philosophical i can be. the adopted child is a good example. people say that there is a inherit emotional bond between biological decedents; however, the adopted cases show that this is often not true in that often the child feels a better bond with their current parents, which could be directed towards that they were the one the child had interactions with.

[sbwprotoss]

wow. the limit on these replies are short

continuing:

Accordingly, as people born in the us, we were immersed in the culture, given benefits by the culture, and thus similarly feel reciprocal obligations toward the area/country we were raised in.

And i'm not saying weather that's a sentiment or communical moral obligation. just that the two are comparable.

And by the way it's Iraq, not Irak

[modularfish]

Isn't solidarity by definition the opposite of obligation since your are not doing it out of self-interest?

The fact that people have historical and social context, doesn't mean that you can derive 'obligations' from them only that you cannot cut yourself loose from them. It means that you have for example a 'natural connection' to your parents.

When using words we have to take in account what they mean. You cannot clearly define 'all Germans' for example because it is a generalization.

[thisisgrey]

nicola always talks like she's about to cry and that's cute

[NsaneNtheNbrane]

@23:57 What do you do when you have to choose between saving your parent and saving two or more strangers? If you're willing to save two strangers over one of your parents, does that mean that saving your parent in a one-to-one decision is just a default choice? If you save your parent over two or more strangers, does that mean you value one parent's life over the lives of two or more strangers? It seems to me that the motivation for saving the parent would be purely psychological...

[NsaneNtheNbrane]

...and the fact that it's your parent has no moral weight in these decisions. Another question to think about would be, would you save the life of a stranger's child over the life of your parent? I think most people would.

@40:28 Turning him in for cheating would only make things worse. It would only help the community very little, if at all, since cheating is pretty common and expected to a certain degree. Mostly what it would do is harm your roommate for something...

[NsaneNtheNbrane]

...that people do all the time anyway, and even more importantly, harm your relationship with your roommate. It's not about loyalty, it's about the role of being a roommate and a friend. You don't owe your roommate anything, you have a duty to preserve a relationship, which respects you, your roommate, and the community.

[NsaneNtheNbrane]

@45:33 The difference between the cheating roommate and Bulger and Lee is that the harm of Bulger and Lee's actions is more evident than the harm of cheating on a college paper. Bulger killed and risked lives, and one of the South's roles in the civil war was to protect slavery. There's a clear obligation to oppose and prevent these actions to the benefit of everyone, while turning in the cheating roommate would cause more harm than good.

[MrBigshifty]

I wish that they would have brought up slavery in the civil war south. Are the mistreated slaves obligated to fight for the south who have oppressed them because they may have been born in their masters house and no nothing else of the outside world.

[otherwisesaid]

When is Justice 102 going to start?

[358Liberty]

Taxes for welfare inflation for welfare and wars that's were the claims of communism are defintely winning

[mikestein5000]

I'm an egoist, and I have no moral obligation to anyone but myself!!!

[otherwisesaid]

LOL... Narcisist!

[lowellriggsiam]

However will we recover when we run out of these videos. Mycket Ledsen.

[358Liberty]

He's written a bunch of books including one based on this series

[aznraver2k]

1 more to go. Great Program!