@leftyctopher The pitcher does not have to hold the stop, or what is known as the "set" position for a specified amount of time. The rules state that the pitcher "must come to an intentional stop".
I've umped a lot of games where I've told the catcher to stand up like he's stretching or something and told him to call time, and do out and tell his pitcher to set for a full second so I don't have to call it. I've only called a handful of balks in 25 years.
@TheSweetestSymphony If you watch all of the delieveries, you'll see that he keeps a continuous motion throughout coming set. On the balk, he came set, stopped, then dropped his hands. You're only allowed to come set once. However, as people have said below, probably shouldn't have been called.
yea i dont get that one.... did they get him on the not repeating his delivery the same thing... in anycase i dont even see how you could say hes trying to deceive the runner their... not even worth calling.
yeah i think he set twice, thats what i thought too, but i wasn't sure if anyone else saw that, so i'd say balk, but if i was an ump i'd probably let that go
I didnt see a balk. A lot of you are saying he comes set twice. It looks to me like its really just a part of his delivery. If his pitch was "normal," and then he did this, I may have called a balk. But I dont think this is a balk.
@mlannom1 Y the ump decided to call the balk there instead of the first four times is beyond me, but he's balking evrytime he pitches. He comes set, then decides to set again
Look at how Nitkowski comes set, and then look at BJ Ryan. Ryan's motion is more of a balk than Nitkowski's. Technically, Ryan balks every time he throws a pitch.
His back was still straightening out as he was starting his pitch. Complete stop means complete stop. The only thing allowed to move when you are set is either your rear foot backward to step off the mound or your head to look at base runners. No other part of your body can have movement at all. I back up the ump's call.
Dont know why that was a balk. And I dont know where this idea of you have to pause for 1 sec after coming set comes from. There must be and obvious "stop". Thats it. Not..pause for one second. No where does it say the pitcher must pause for at least one second.
Once again, I'm going to reiterate this: there is not a "double set" here. The pitcher only comes set once, and that is where his hands drop to his groin area. Anyone who continues to comment that there's a double set or a balk here simply does not understand baseball or its rules. Additionally, Rule 8.01 section (b) does not apply, because he does go to his set position without interruption and in a continuous motion. His movement does get slower, but does not stop before he comes set.
@mattvorwald You're absolutely right Matt. However there is argument that his stop either was non-existent (which is my opinion honestly) or the stop wasn't convincing enough for the ump, because it was definitely a shorter stop than the other pitches. (that's assuming you believe there was a stop) But in my opinion, he was still arching his back up when he chose to come in with a pitch.
once the pitcher comes to a stop, he cannot make another movement and come to a complete stop again. The truth is, he was balking every time he came to a complete stop, dropped his glove, stopped again, and then delivered the ball.
1. There is not a designation between feet and hands coming set. Coming set involves the cessation of all movement as a whole. There is not a double set, nor is there a rule that states one must stop all movement simultaneously (barring the cessation of feet first, then hands).
2. There is no rule that states the pause must be for a full second. It only states that the pitcher must come set.
Technically it is. And YES it is a two sets, but the "leg buckle" or movement is NOT why its a balk. Here's why it IS a balk:
The pitcher brought his pitching hand to his glove hand, that is consider a set or stop, and then moving the hand/glove down is the second set or stop. Which in turn is a balk.
So while he did technically balk, I agree with rest of you, why call it all of a sudden. Just saw the dodgers game a the pitcher double set & the umps missed it or decided not to call it.
Anyone commenting about a "double set" does not understand baseball, or the rules which define a balk. There is no evidence of either a double set or a balk here.
Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side; from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01(b) without interruption and in one continuous motion.
why balk that pitch. its a joke!! if the plate umpire calls it first time round thats ok... he can't watch 6 of the same pitches and then call it... someone would have been in his ear!
If you want a pitching motion that is a balk, look at BJ Ryan for the Blue Jays. He balks every time. Nitkowski has admitted himself his set motion is a borderline balk, but he's nowhere near as bad as BJ Ryan.
This is getting ridiculous. All of these little cutesy things that pitchers do...their little trademarks, are irritating. These are things that should be balks but aren't, because they're "part of the natural delivery". Bullcrap! Whether it be dropping the hands (like this pitcher), the double set, the double leg kick (our Japanese friends are good for that one), all of this nonsense needs to be STRICTLY called as a balk, so as to eliminate it altogether! Just another cheating pitcher here!
Here is what i tell these pitchers and coaches...If he's going to drop his hands like that, he must drop them every time. If he came set and pitched without dropping his hands, then i would call a balk because the runner would be waiting for the hand drop. Its not a balk in my opinion, but just for the record i can't stand pitchers who do this.
As an umpire, this is not a balk. This is his natural motion, he doesn't stop enough to be considered a balk. Whatever the talk about his hands dropping, they don't. He is still moving his hands until they drop from his stomach to his waist. At this point, he starts his motion which is fine.
From what I see this is the right call. On the non balk pitches he is still slightly moving before he drops his hands down. However on the pitch called a balk he clearly comes completely set with both his foot and his hands, and then drops them. Thus he has come to a set position twice which is not legal. The rules state that when in the set position you are allowed to make one fluid motion before coming to a complete stop and then throw. Therefore this was the right call, balk!
it doesn't matter how many times u do it. its still a balk if he doesn't call it or not. ur deceiving the runner by dropping the hands & then going. it doesn't matter if he does it 1 times or 100 times. its still a balk.
I dont see a balk. Whats the balk? And rule reference please. The body and hands dont have to come set at the same time. Usually the pitcher will straighten, bring his hands set "still", then pitch...whats the balk here?
And he doesnt move his hands. Not sure what balk rule your referencing. I do college and HS, not balk here. You mention "cannot move your hands".,... He comes set, meaning his whole body is "still", then he starts his delivery.
What do you mean he drops his hands after he sets? Thats not a balk. If you have that as a balk, what is the rule reference. I do college and HS, thats not a balk. When a pitcher comes set, or "stops", his hands can do whatever, as long as they dont violate any rules. And here, the pitcher brings the ball to the plate. Whats the balk?
If you're talking about the umpire not being consistant, then I agree (although the last one, he did hover the hands up there a little longer just by a hair).
If by "exactly the same" you're implying that if the pitcher does the same move every time then there is no balk, that is not correct. That is a myth. The pitcher must conform to the rules no matter what he does "every time."
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malcolmx919 6 months ago
hahah its his glove when he drops hit to his hip
mrg00dgame 8 months ago
The hands looked like they dropped after they were set
dotdot5790 8 months ago
was it for a double set or quick pitch? Either way thats damn harsh!
lindz1817 9 months ago
@lindz1817 probably a double set.. but yes harsh..
lordruthless23 8 months ago
well the time he called balk his hand pauses and then moves down again, so thats what blue saw
agentsmith10100 10 months ago
Not a good call.
redlegone 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
he is not set the other times looking at runner on third. The balk called he was looking at the catcher the whole time. but then again can be a balk.
cmstat73 10 months ago
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cmstat73 10 months ago
has to completely still for 1.5 secs
leftyctopher 10 months ago
@leftyctopher The pitcher does not have to hold the stop, or what is known as the "set" position for a specified amount of time. The rules state that the pitcher "must come to an intentional stop".
awstianti 5 months ago
I've umped a lot of games where I've told the catcher to stand up like he's stretching or something and told him to call time, and do out and tell his pitcher to set for a full second so I don't have to call it. I've only called a handful of balks in 25 years.
TomKaren1994 11 months ago
maybe the umpire thought the P didn't have a discernible stop long enough and missed the first dozen balks ... lmao. Just a thought!
3018276800 1 year ago
@3018276800 agreed ... looks bad!
3018276800 1 year ago
that is the weakest balk i've ever seen called. are hardcore calls like this common in japan?
SuperAWaC 1 year ago
um what did i just watch??
Keith459001 1 year ago
Japan is lame ass country, they suck at ball. Don't take it personally. MLB allstars always whoop their asses.
ICantDecryptTheCode 1 year ago
please explain how he sets twice instead of just saying he set twice because i dont see anything wrong
TheSweetestSymphony 1 year ago
@TheSweetestSymphony If you watch all of the delieveries, you'll see that he keeps a continuous motion throughout coming set. On the balk, he came set, stopped, then dropped his hands. You're only allowed to come set once. However, as people have said below, probably shouldn't have been called.
Baseball5030 1 year ago
@Baseball5030 There's no difference between the two motions, He drops his hands the same way in both.
ChrisKOLeary 1 year ago
I could see it being a balk because he doesn't really set his hands, but its definitely and iffy call
RAMDEGO618 1 year ago
yea i dont get that one.... did they get him on the not repeating his delivery the same thing... in anycase i dont even see how you could say hes trying to deceive the runner their... not even worth calling.
billtrenary 1 year ago
Is it because he didn't lower his head? I don't get it. It looks exactly the same otherwise, and not at all confusing to the batter.
suburbanindie 1 year ago
Are you guys saying he comes set twice because he settles his hands a second after his feet come closer together?
HelloImMateo 1 year ago
Set 2
jmacake24 1 year ago
yeah i think he set twice, thats what i thought too, but i wasn't sure if anyone else saw that, so i'd say balk, but if i was an ump i'd probably let that go
JLTRAIN233 1 year ago
I didnt see a balk. A lot of you are saying he comes set twice. It looks to me like its really just a part of his delivery. If his pitch was "normal," and then he did this, I may have called a balk. But I dont think this is a balk.
82drumhead 1 year ago
He set twice. You must have only one complete stop.
redverter 2 years ago
@redverter He is not coming set twice because that is his motion everytime he pitches. I dont see the balk.
mlannom1 1 year ago
@mlannom1 Y the ump decided to call the balk there instead of the first four times is beyond me, but he's balking evrytime he pitches. He comes set, then decides to set again
redverter 1 year ago
I agree.
82drumhead 1 year ago
Look at how Nitkowski comes set, and then look at BJ Ryan. Ryan's motion is more of a balk than Nitkowski's. Technically, Ryan balks every time he throws a pitch.
SoftBank47 2 years ago
His back was still straightening out as he was starting his pitch. Complete stop means complete stop. The only thing allowed to move when you are set is either your rear foot backward to step off the mound or your head to look at base runners. No other part of your body can have movement at all. I back up the ump's call.
TehGamesaver 2 years ago
Technically a balk, but if he does that double motion every single time, most umps will let it go.
Brammy007a 2 years ago
Dont know why that was a balk. And I dont know where this idea of you have to pause for 1 sec after coming set comes from. There must be and obvious "stop". Thats it. Not..pause for one second. No where does it say the pitcher must pause for at least one second.
82drumhead 2 years ago
Once again, I'm going to reiterate this: there is not a "double set" here. The pitcher only comes set once, and that is where his hands drop to his groin area. Anyone who continues to comment that there's a double set or a balk here simply does not understand baseball or its rules. Additionally, Rule 8.01 section (b) does not apply, because he does go to his set position without interruption and in a continuous motion. His movement does get slower, but does not stop before he comes set.
mattvorwald 2 years ago
@mattvorwald You're absolutely right Matt. However there is argument that his stop either was non-existent (which is my opinion honestly) or the stop wasn't convincing enough for the ump, because it was definitely a shorter stop than the other pitches. (that's assuming you believe there was a stop) But in my opinion, he was still arching his back up when he chose to come in with a pitch.
TehGamesaver 2 years ago
once the pitcher comes to a stop, he cannot make another movement and come to a complete stop again. The truth is, he was balking every time he came to a complete stop, dropped his glove, stopped again, and then delivered the ball.
drin2014 2 years ago
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Watch his head,
mattroosterfair 2 years ago
1. came set two times.. first with feet, than hands..
2. didn't not pause a second before delivering
Toan342 2 years ago
In response to Toan342:
1. There is not a designation between feet and hands coming set. Coming set involves the cessation of all movement as a whole. There is not a double set, nor is there a rule that states one must stop all movement simultaneously (barring the cessation of feet first, then hands).
2. There is no rule that states the pause must be for a full second. It only states that the pitcher must come set.
mattvorwald 2 years ago
Agreed 100%. Thats what I was wanting to say.
82drumhead 2 years ago
Technically it is. And YES it is a two sets, but the "leg buckle" or movement is NOT why its a balk. Here's why it IS a balk:
The pitcher brought his pitching hand to his glove hand, that is consider a set or stop, and then moving the hand/glove down is the second set or stop. Which in turn is a balk.
So while he did technically balk, I agree with rest of you, why call it all of a sudden. Just saw the dodgers game a the pitcher double set & the umps missed it or decided not to call it.
mattman2900 2 years ago
Anyone commenting about a "double set" does not understand baseball, or the rules which define a balk. There is no evidence of either a double set or a balk here.
mattvorwald 2 years ago
Actually there is. Rule 8.01 section (b) :
Preparatory to coming to a set position, the pitcher shall have one hand on his side; from this position he shall go to his set position as defined in Rule 8.01(b) without interruption and in one continuous motion.
vincesola 2 years ago
he came set two times
ecow280 2 years ago
fail
sportagus3 2 years ago
No way I'd be calling that a double set.
davymc91 2 years ago
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dukelovera 2 years ago
fail
sportagus3 2 years ago
BAALLLKSYBABBEEE
BonerPirate 2 years ago
why balk that pitch. its a joke!! if the plate umpire calls it first time round thats ok... he can't watch 6 of the same pitches and then call it... someone would have been in his ear!
reneehausner 2 years ago
he did two sets
bostonsucs 2 years ago
2 stops - BALK!
catch9 3 years ago
Balk! Double Set!
umpire20 3 years ago
Balk!
mmacmu1 3 years ago
wat
cougarslayer78 3 years ago
If you want a pitching motion that is a balk, look at BJ Ryan for the Blue Jays. He balks every time. Nitkowski has admitted himself his set motion is a borderline balk, but he's nowhere near as bad as BJ Ryan.
SoftBank47 3 years ago
i think he balks every time. you can't come to a set position twice.
SASnyder122 3 years ago
never mind not balked
charletsweb12 3 years ago
he did not come set ready to fire beacause when u throw te glove must be higher then ur waist
charletsweb12 3 years ago
This is getting ridiculous. All of these little cutesy things that pitchers do...their little trademarks, are irritating. These are things that should be balks but aren't, because they're "part of the natural delivery". Bullcrap! Whether it be dropping the hands (like this pitcher), the double set, the double leg kick (our Japanese friends are good for that one), all of this nonsense needs to be STRICTLY called as a balk, so as to eliminate it altogether! Just another cheating pitcher here!
dano217 3 years ago
Here is what i tell these pitchers and coaches...If he's going to drop his hands like that, he must drop them every time. If he came set and pitched without dropping his hands, then i would call a balk because the runner would be waiting for the hand drop. Its not a balk in my opinion, but just for the record i can't stand pitchers who do this.
captainlemieux66 3 years ago
As an umpire, this is not a balk. This is his natural motion, he doesn't stop enough to be considered a balk. Whatever the talk about his hands dropping, they don't. He is still moving his hands until they drop from his stomach to his waist. At this point, he starts his motion which is fine.
CNordy 3 years ago
From what I see this is the right call. On the non balk pitches he is still slightly moving before he drops his hands down. However on the pitch called a balk he clearly comes completely set with both his foot and his hands, and then drops them. Thus he has come to a set position twice which is not legal. The rules state that when in the set position you are allowed to make one fluid motion before coming to a complete stop and then throw. Therefore this was the right call, balk!
jas4yf 3 years ago
it doesn't matter how many times u do it. its still a balk if he doesn't call it or not. ur deceiving the runner by dropping the hands & then going. it doesn't matter if he does it 1 times or 100 times. its still a balk.
cubbiefan26 3 years ago
I dont see a balk. Whats the balk? And rule reference please. The body and hands dont have to come set at the same time. Usually the pitcher will straighten, bring his hands set "still", then pitch...whats the balk here?
chuckfan1 3 years ago
until u start ur windup or r in the set position u cannot move ur hands.
theofficefan5 3 years ago
And he doesnt move his hands. Not sure what balk rule your referencing. I do college and HS, not balk here. You mention "cannot move your hands".,... He comes set, meaning his whole body is "still", then he starts his delivery.
chuckfan1 3 years ago
its not a balk if he does it everytime
ryannovotney88 3 years ago
he does drop his hands after he sets. they're all balks.
cubbiefan26 3 years ago
What do you mean he drops his hands after he sets? Thats not a balk. If you have that as a balk, what is the rule reference. I do college and HS, thats not a balk. When a pitcher comes set, or "stops", his hands can do whatever, as long as they dont violate any rules. And here, the pitcher brings the ball to the plate. Whats the balk?
chuckfan1 3 years ago
Only thing I see is he may not have come to a discernable stop. Very slight thought .
suxsox10 3 years ago
I think they are all balks because he sets his hands, waits a second, and then drops them before he starts his motion.
iKatelynShow 3 years ago
he didnt set
tranman978 3 years ago
What part of the balk rule was violated? I see a clear stop between stretch and set.
kenzaburo 3 years ago
why dont you raise your glove higher?
no japanese care what you say
but umpire says
akiraa2111 4 years ago
What are you implying by "exactly the same?"
If you're talking about the umpire not being consistant, then I agree (although the last one, he did hover the hands up there a little longer just by a hair).
If by "exactly the same" you're implying that if the pitcher does the same move every time then there is no balk, that is not correct. That is a myth. The pitcher must conform to the rules no matter what he does "every time."
mae2759 4 years ago 2