You keep saying meditation teachers don't know what they are talking about when it comes to jhanas. If they truly don't know, with your low jhana standards, what is the different between you and them. It is indeed pathetic.
@theunbinder The rest of my videos provide ample supporting evidence for my premises. Further the website of the Great Western Vehicle dot org has all of my essays on the subject. Arguing points in 500 characters or less is an exercise in futility.
@Jhananda What I mean with "over and over again about the 4 jhanas" plus the 4 higher states, is that they don't really answer my question. My question was the relation between jhana and nibbana. Actually you answered by repeating the question because the suttas (you mentioned MN-26 and 36) uses the term jhana and nibbana again, without explaining what jhana is all about. What jhana is all about, it is the main important point I wanted to tell you.
@theunbinder The point expressed in 1/3 of the suttas is that the whole purpose of the N8P is to arrive at contemplation (jhana). Arriving at contemplation produces insight (vipassana). Both insight and contemplation work together to purify one which produces liberation.
@theunbinder It seems to be your interpretation that I respond offensively instead of objectively. Since you are the one who is clearly offensively, we could use your argument to prove that you have not attained jhana. Further, if you do not get the bliss and joy component of jhana, then by the suttas you have not attained jhana.
@Jhananda I am sorry if any of my responses you consider as offensive. I never meant to be like that. As far as I remember, I was just telling the facts that any people can also see. When one tries to express a bitter fact related to a person, the person will tend to think that the statement is offensive. It is common to happen, especially to one who cannot or refuse to see the bitter fact by himself.
@Jhananda Having declared yourself attainment such as jhana, anagami, even arahant, then you responded offensively. I never declared myself any attainment, then (you think) I responded offensively. Thus, the shame should be on you, not on me. Please don't get irritated by this. I am just expressing the fact.
@theunbinder you are still projecting your erroneous beliefs upon me. It seems that you are deeply offended by my videos. If you are so deeply offended by these videos then I suggest that you go elsewhere and find peace. After all, if you do not agree with them, then why keep coming back?
@Jhananda I'm surprised you think I am offended by your videos. I couldn't believe you think so. You forgot what I have said. In my earlier comment I told you my motivation, i.e. to explain some important points so that your understanding become more complete and correct. It is actually a good thing. You should be grateful.
Sorry it is my fault not to explain the reason right away after mentioning something is erroneous.
@theunbinder however, I have already pointed out that it is your understanding that is delusional, and your expression is consistently offensive. Denial is the source of delusion. First look inside, correct the falsehoods inside of yourself, then look outside to find those you can help.
@theunbinder Well, it seems like you are the one who is making the erroneous assumptions, because my response to not assume any attainment. Anyone can read my translations of the suttas, and my descriptions of contemplation, which is called jhana in the suttas, and make their own conclusion.
@Jhananda And please keep in mind that I am here not to offend you. My motivation is for goodness, i.e. to inform you the important points so that your understanding becomes more complete (because your are not completely wrong, you only miss some points). Please put aside ego for awhile and discuss objectively with reference to the suttas.
@theunbinder If you truly understood jhana from personal experience with it, then you would agree with my description of it. So, clearly you have no attainment. The suttas are just a 2600 year-old description of a religious experience. How about speaking from personal experience instead of harping on an ancient and often times misunderstood document.
@Jhananda Before talking about personal experience, you should understand one thing. There are 3 phases in learning the Buddha Dhamma:
1. Pariyatti Dhamma: learn the text (suttas) for accurate understanding
2. Patipatti Dhamma: bring the teaching into practice
3. Pativeda Dhamma: realization of the teaching, achieve the outcome
Unless one strives for finding the way to enlightenment by himself, which is not likely to happen while a Buddha's Teaching is available, the 1st phase is not applicable.
@theunbinder One cannot attain Pariyatti Dhamma until one realizes that the Buddha dhamma has been misinterpreted for about 21 centuries. Bringing the teaching into practice is leading a rigours, self-aware, contemplative life. Realization of the teaching is attaining jhana, which will bring one to freedom from addictions and neuroses (hindrances). When one is free from addictions and neuroses (hindrances), then one has found realization in the dhamma.
@Jhananda So you think we could not find the Dhamma in a valid form anymore? Well, I don't think so. Because the Buddha has predicted his teaching will last for about 5000 years (thus, two and half millennia still remain). And your opinion of misinterpretation is only based on a few words that you object (not mentioning whether your interpretation any better for some words), and they are not that important to be debated (e.g. the word "piti".)
@theunbinder Your aggressive filibustering of this channel should be proof enough the Buddha dhamma is dead. If, on the other hand the Buddha dhamma was alive and well, then my attainments would be valued by the Buddhist priesthood. And, you too would celebrate my attainments. And, if you did not have such attainments, then you would seek training from me.
@Jhananda If you do Patipatti without Pariyatti first, you will be lost. This is the 2nd time I'm telling you. It is the same as if you want to go to a place (you never went there before) without any clue, without bringing the map, and without asking the people you meet along the road. What you will end up with is lost. It is that simple. There is nothing special here, only a simple logic.
@theunbinder I studied and practiced meditation and philosophy (dhamma) for 40 years. In that time I studied from many Buddhist meditation teachers, priests and monks. I did not find one of them understood or valued the attainments (phala) that are the product of then skilful practice of meditation. Whereas, I have found fruitful attainment in no addictions and neuroses (hindrances) and abundant charisms (phala), such as contemplation (samadhi), insight (vipassana), OOBEs (manomaya).
@Jhananda "Realization of the teaching is attaining jhana,". Only attaining jhana is not a complete realization until one has attained The Goal, i.e. Nibbana. I wonder if you understand the relation between jhana and Nibbana. If you can provide an explanation, I would appreciate it. And one more thing for sure, there is no way to find neurosis as a hindrance in the Suttas. If neurosis is a result of wrong practice, it makes more sense.
@theunbinder You may wish to re-read MN-26 and 36. In those suttas it is clear that the Buddha only realized he had found the path to Nibbana once he had attained the first jhana. Once he had fully realized the 4th jhana in MN-36 he says he is enlightened. Other suttas define the 8 liberations in terms of the upper 7 stages of samadhi, plus full liberation. Also, he defined the 8th fold of his Noble Eightfold Path in terms of samadhi, and he define samadhi in terms of jhana.
So, we can conclude, according to the Buddha that attainment of jhana is essential to the path to liberation and enlightenment, and its very definition.
@Jhananda Your idea of misinterpretation, for some words, is just a way for you to JUSTIFY your experience, to make your experience matched the sutta. For example, the word "manomaya" you translated as out-of-body experience, which is erroneous. I can explain why it is erroneous.
Notice that every time I uncover the reality (truth) which lays deep inside your heart, you will become irritated. I can feel the previous irritation which I think caused by the word "deluded" in my previous post.
@theunbinder anyone who has had a genuine out-of-body experience would see in the metaphors used in the suttas of a sword being withdrawn from a sheath, or a snake sloughing off its skin, is an accurate description of an OOBE; thus, we can conclude that you do not know what an OOBE, or "manomaya" is.
Also, every accusation from you that I am irritated with you is simply proof of your delusional state.
@Jhananda So before speaking from personal experience, you should make your understanding quite accurate first, otherwise you will be out of track easily, become deluded.
It is not only you who have experienced the things you mentioned in your articles and videos. No one seemed to be so proud of but you. Conceit is one of the higher fetters. It is very hard to eradicate.
@theunbinder It is not out of conceit that I openly discuss the phenomena of meditation. I speak openly about these phenomena because there is not one single Buddhist priest who seems to understand these phenomena, and they commonly warn people against these phenomena, and those who experience these phenomena in meditation are typically marginalized within a Buddhist context, therefore they are receiving no guidance.
@Jhananda You asked me to speak from personal experience, fine. I have experienced those kind of sensations too, such as my mind so calm with crystal clear hearing of surrounding sounds, feeling like my head is on the sky above, feeling like as if my body is enlarged so huge, to mention a few. But they are NOT indication of progress at all, they are just obstacles. They occurs since at least one of the five hindrances still exists in the meditation.
@theunbinder Good, you have once upon a time experienced jhana, so now try to do that every time you meditation, and meditate thus several times a day. i do, and i experience these phenomena every time I meditate. Further, there is no place in the suttas where one is warned against these phenomena. Instead these phenomena are called "maha-phala," and are the Buddha's very definition of success following his Noble Eightfold Path.
@Jhananda Since the beginning I never declared or claimed that I have any attainment, but YOU did (obvious from your articles, videos, user groups). Why do you keep on trying to verify that I don't have any (jhana) attainment? Whether I have it or not, it is not important for you. You should verify yourself, that is important. But actually you have done it without you aware of it.
@theunbinder If you had the genuine attainment of jhana and other fruit (phala) of the contemplative life, then you would recognize that I too have such attainment, which means you would value my attainments, and honor me as a fellow attainer. Instead you filibuster this YouTube channel, and argue that I have no attainment ;-)
@Jhananda I've said earlier that you are not completely wrong. Your points which already correct are:
- Jhana is an important part of the Noble Eightfold Path to liberation
- Piti and sukha are important factor of jhana
So, I have no concern regarding the bliss and joy components. In my meditation experience the pleasures were also present. What I wanted to address is not related to any of those points.
@Jhananda I'm pretty sure you never know or never consider the point I wanted to address, because I couldn't find it in your articles and videos. You thought I haven't read your articles on your website? FYI, I have read your articles and have watched your videos before posting my first comment.
Even the mainstream Buddhist and meditation teachers out there rarely mention this important point for jhana validation. It seemed to be forgotten by many people, but it is right there in the Suttas.
@Jhananda Ok now comes the time to mention the important point to validate jhana. If you ever read DN 9 (Potthapada Sutta) it says "with training one perception ceases and another perception arises". It is said that perception of sensuality ceases in the first jhana. It is consistent with other suttas which describe first jhana as "withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities(5 hindrances)". But cessation of perception of sensuality doen't mean one doesn't hear, smell, or see.
@theunbinder0 I agree that withdrawing one's attention upon the sensory domain is essential for experiencing contemplation (jhana, samahi). In the west we take that as a given.
@Jhananda It is not about agree or not agree. "You agree" doesn't always mean you understand. In your video titled "the 4 jhanas", when you described the 3rd jhana at minute 7:48, it proves that your perception of sensuality was still present, thus it was false 3rd jhana. So by definition in the suttas, you have not attained any jhana. This proof is a CHECKMATE for you. Please provide me a detailed and make-sense explanation if it is not jhana delusion.
@theunbinder1 It sounds like you subscribe to a belief that the jhanas arise in the absence of sensory awareness. While I would agree that during the practice of meditation one withdraws one's awareness from the sensory domain, it is nonetheless my experience that all 4 jhanas occur during partial awareness of the sensory domain. And, the suttas support my experience.
@Jhananda My belief is based on what I found in the suttas. If you read Digha Nikaya 9 carefully, you will find: sensual perception ceases in the 1st jhana. It doesn't say partially ceases as in your experience. Cease and partially cease are different, it is obvious. How can you say the sutta support your experience? I told you it is a checkmate.
@theunbinder2 the interesting, or perhaps pathetic, part of religion, is one can interpret it anyway they want. So, you have found an interpretation that suits you, but I disagree with your interpretation. Now, you have the freedom to believe whatever you want to, and express it freely; but why do you feel that I need to believe in your warped interpretation of the suttas?
@Jhananda Apparently you like to turn the tables around, committing baseless accusations. I didn't do any interpretation but you said: "warped interpretation of the suttas". In fact, the cessation of perception is mentioned EXPLICITLY in the suttas, one doesn't need to do any interpretation since it is already clearly mentioned there.
Let's see who has actually done a warped, twisted interpretation here. And I don't need you to believe my understanding, I just want to show you some facts.
@theunbinder2 In the Samaññaphala Sutta (DN 2) it says regarding to the 4 jhanas, "...his body is filled (abhisanteti1) to overflowing (parisanneti2) with bliss (piiti), joy (sukha)..." Since it refers to the physical body it seems reasonable to conclude the sensory domain is present to the contemplative
@theunbinder2 further, in the Ariyapariyesana Sutta (MN 26.28) it says regarding the 5th samahdi, "with complete transcendence of perceptions of the physical domain (råpasaññànaü), passing beyond (samatikkama) the rapacious material world (pañighasaññànaü), extinguishing (atthagamà) the variety of sensory perceptions (nànattasaññànaü), without the endless pull of mental activity (amanasikàrà ananto àkàsoti), one travels within (upasampajja viharati) the astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü)."
@Jhananda You misunderstand between "rupasanna" and "kamasanna", i.e between rupa and kama. Rupa means "form" (physical domain), while kama means "sensuality" (sensory domain). What I was talking about is kamasanna, i.e perception of kama, which ceases in the 1st jhana (DN-9, read the pali, you'll find "kamasanna nirujhati" in the 1st jhana and "rupasanna nirujhati" in the 5th jhana). There is nothing about sensory domain in the 5th jhana, this is one proof of your twisted interpretation.
@Jhananda And also the word "nanattasanna", nanatta means "manifoldness" (idea of multiformity), thus your translation (variety of sensory perceptions) is not appropriate. This is why you got your interpretation twisted. This is the importance to seriuosly do your Pariyatti first, not later which only to support your opinion.
@theunbinder2 with DN-1 and MN-26 we can conclude that according to the Buddha the sensory domain was present to the contemplative during the first four stages of samadhi, which he called "jhana."
@Jhananda Reference to the physical body is not enough to conclude the presence of sensory domain (perception of sensuality). Clearly you don't understand perception (sanna). Only physical body (sense organ) is not enough without contact (phassa), consciousness and the object (to be perceived). If you say only physical body is sufficient, then you would agree that a corpse can perceive things with its eyes, ears, etc. So, based on this reason your interpretation is indeed warped.
@theunbinder I appears that your own ego investment in your erroneous belief systems has driven you to filibuster this YouTube channel. Instead, why don't you spend a little more time meditating to the depths of samadhi every day, as I do, before you look like nothing more than a balloon puffed up with nothing but hot air.
"Quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. BUT the pleasant feeling that arose in this way DID NOT invade my mind or remain."
You have misunderstood the teaching if you cling to the ecstasy. Either no one has told you about this, or you just too ignorant to listen.
1. It should be: "If you believe that NO one who has attained jhana clings to anything, then you do not understand the suttas." Because unless one has attained arahantship (has ended all mental fermentation), one won't attach to anything. Thus, having only attained(undoubtedly) 1-4 jhanas doesn't always mean one free from clinging. This is where you don't understand the suttas.
@theunbinder Also, the translations of the suttas have numerous errors in them. For instance a 'rapture' is an out of body experience. So, a better translation of the Pali term 'piiti' is 'bliss.'
The tongue going back is a jnana? You said automatic movements. My head moves, the tongue goes back and the fingers join. I don't need to meditate longer than 20 minutes for this to occur. My tongue has gone back in 30 seconds upon sitting. I don't meditate every day and never have. Every other day. And there is no experience of bliss or ecstasy. Just relaxation.
@klindred Well, 'jhana' is a term that appears in the Discourses of the Buddha; however, no place in those suttas is a reference to tongue placement. The key descriptors for jhana in those suttas is bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha). If we examine the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali we find no place in those sutras in reference to tongue placement; however, we find bliss (ananda) and joy (sukha) are used to describe samadhi. In my case histories each subject describes bliss and joy when in samadhi.
@Jhananda The tongue going back is a well known automatic movement called kechari mudra. Buddha mentions kechari mudra. This is not to mention the other movements i wrote.
@klindred There is no reference to "kechari mudra," or any other form of tongue placement in the Discourses of the Buddha. No form of tongue placement appears anywhere in the record of the Christian mystics. And, no form of tongue placement appears anywhere in the record of the Sufi mystics. We can conclude that tongue placement is unique to a few yoga schools and may therefore maybe completely irrelevant in the religious experience.
@Jhananda There is certainly a reference to tongue placement in the Buddhist texts for i have read it. The Bible says, "and their tongues shall cleave to the roof of their mouths" and i have heard from some christian mystics that experience it but do not talk about it. Whether it is relevent or not in the religious experience is an open question, since not all mystics will have the same bodily manifestations.
@Jhananda It isn't something i need to do at all unless it is demanded of me. You can easily search google for that information yourself. Furthermore, you concentrated on the tongue movement and not the head movements or the finger mudras that i mentioned. Nor did you explain why certain movements are standard in terms of mystical experience. I commented on your video by asking you a question initially and offering my POV as a means to see what you had to say ie confirm for me. cont
@klindred When I collect a case history I evaluate the subject based upon a series of criteria, which I extracted from the major mystics. I would not consider collecting a case history from someone who only meditates 30 minutes every other day.
Respond to this video... It seems you weren't prepared to acknowledge my position but instead chose to belittle it. But that is ok, nobody expects anything less from self proclaimed gurus and teachers.
@klindred Every one of my contemplative subjects practices meditation every day, and they practice meditation several times a day for periods of 30 minutes or more. We can conclude that there is nothing in your practice or experience that suggests that you are experiencing samadhi.
@Jhananda I have practiced meditation for 30 minutes up to an hour every other day and sometimes on consecutive days for the last 10 years. I didn't claim i experienced samadhi. However, i do experience automatic movements so if this is considered a type of samadhi i do indeed experience samadhi.
@klindred Well, then do a critical analysis of your work verses my work, and/or site your case histories, and/or site your sources, to support your premises
@klindred My research into historic references to religious experiences, and my case histories with living subjects having religious experiences, shows that this class of subject meditates every day, several times per day, and for long periods of time, such as an hour or more. This suggests that your automatic movements are most likely not related to the religious experience.
@Jhananda My research into historic and present day religious experiences shows that 20 minutes of twice daily meditation is enough to produce profound spiritual experiences including automatic movements. Further, earlier you said it was 30 mins at a time and now you are saying it is an hour or more. You seem almost quick to dismiss what i have said without humbly considering that you could be incorrect or perhaps mistaken.
The cross over after one’s mind has full understanding of Ti-lakkhana (in either angle), the mind will surpass lokiya into lokuttara-magga. One who is attached to jhanas till death is likely to appear in Brahma-world for long long time !!
@kentlim1000 there seems to be some confusion for you here. Only the first 4 stages of samadhi were called 'jhana' in the suttas. The commentaries mistakenly called the remaining 4 stages of samadhi "arupa jhana." This can create some confusion in discussion and understanding. So, when I use the term 'jhana' I only refer to the first 4 stages of samadhi.
Respond to this video... If you examine MN-36 you will find that after the Buddha left his two teachers and rejected the 6th and 7th stages of samadhi, he then found the 4 jhanas, and through them found freedom from suffering. Also, by definition, since the attainment of the 4 jhanas requires one to be withdrawn (vivicceva) from sensuality (kàmehi), and withdrawn from unwholesome mental states and beliefs (akusalehi dhammehi), then attachment is not an option
One practices dhamma not becoz of jhanas but one should learn and be able to make an insight judgment of understandings on Ti-Lakkhana - the 3 characteristics of existence. At the time when they reach conclusion, their minds will automatically attain jhanas without an attempt and practicing jhanas before.
@kentlim1000 it has been my personal experience with jhana for 40 years that intuitive, revelatory, insight is the product of jhana. And, the deeper one goes into jhana, and the more one spends in jhana, then the more intuitive, revelatory, insight I experience.
Experiencing jhanas are good things. Also, i feel much respectul to those who are able to achieve jhanas. However, there is a tendency where Jhanas could create problem at the end where "atta" or "self" are mounting without awareness. Just like one builds mass destructive weapons which need to be destroyed at last but they don t know or aware of. The 2 teachers of Prince Siddhattha also missed nirvana despite that they were master of jhanas.
@kentlim1000 most people who report the authentic experience of contemplation (jhana) report that the experience is a non-dual experience. A non duel experience is an experience of no-self, or loss of ego; therefore the experience if contemplation (jhana) cannot lead to building the ego.
@Jhananda with respect, I believe that inference is not a logical necessity. The experience of loss of ego does not necessitate lack of ego building. One can say to themselves, "I have attained the experience of loss of ego (ego death, non-dual awareness), thus I am an advanced meditator -- I am good -- I am unique." All of which are potentially ego building statements.
@jojajico One who has developed skill with meditation to the point of developing one or more of the 8 stages of contemplation is not likely to say to one's self, "I have attained the experience of loss of ego (ego death, non-dual awareness), thus I am an advanced meditator -- I am good -- I am unique." If one does, then one most probably is playing mind games.
thanks for replying... that s fine if you disagree. please note jhanas have existed before the enlightment of the lord buddha. if one attain nirvana, one could see several path to reach the mountain peak.
@kentlim1000 Yes, I agree one should be open to disagreement in any religion. While you believe that the stages of samadhi that the Buddha called 'jhana' existed before him, and surely they did, but the term does not appear in any Indic literature before him. And, of course I am sure you are aware of his attainment of the 6th and 7th levels of samadhi before that, reported in MN-36 , and not finding them fulfilling; however, in that same sutta is where we see him attain jhana and fulfillment
jhanas are by-product or a complimentary for people who practice meditations regularly and properly. we are not learning dhamma for a purpose of attaining jhanas. we practice dhamma simply to observe and understand true nature of the universe that all things falls under the same laws of nature which are anicca, dukkha and anatta in order to get ride of ignorance and eventually achieve highest wisdom (nirvana)
@kentlim1000 actually the Discourses of the Buddha consistently define the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path in terms of jhana. Thus, anyone who claims to be a Buddhist must, by definition, be seeking jhana. However, most mainstream forms of Buddhism teach, as you believe, that jhana is optional, a by-product, or a complimentary for people who practice meditations regularly. The point in the suttas, is meditation (sati) leads to contemplation (jhana).
@MNKW123 thank-you for posting your support for the mission of the GWV. Yes, I agree, few people can attain the 8 levels of contemplation (jhana, samadhi). But, i do not believe it is because few are capable. It is just that we have all been misled. I am confident with proper guidance anyone can attain these blissful states.
jhananda have you read the yoga sutras? do you go through the stages patanjali talks about - concentration, meditation, and absorption - to establish yourself in meditation?
@Aeranlaes yes, I have read several translations of the Yoga Sutras, all of which seemed flawed, so I translated it for myself. To me the limbs of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras are not unlike the Buddha's Eightfold Path. Both models are attempts to describe the contemplative life, which is more about self awareness and not at all about burying the psyche under a mountain of ritualized devotional practices. So, leading a rigorous self-aware contemplative life brought me to the ecstasies.
@pawbard I had success in following anapanasati and Kayagati sati, which are about observing the body and the breath as a vehicle of self-awareness, stress-release and relaxation. However, always in the back of my mind was the idea that by leading a rigorous contemplative life I would find bliss, joy, ecstasy and liberation, so when I was meditating I was at least expecting those results, and I got them. Most of my case histories with mystics suggests they followed the same strategy.
@LunaIJune Thank-you for posting your comment to this video. Yes, I agree, and it was my point to show that those who meditate for long sessions on a regular basis can expect to experience ecstatic altered states of consciousness
Cool. Thanks
francisjbishop 3 months ago
@francisjbishop I am glad you appreciated my work
Jhananda 3 months ago
You keep saying meditation teachers don't know what they are talking about when it comes to jhanas. If they truly don't know, with your low jhana standards, what is the different between you and them. It is indeed pathetic.
theunbinder3 5 months ago
@theunbinder The rest of my videos provide ample supporting evidence for my premises. Further the website of the Great Western Vehicle dot org has all of my essays on the subject. Arguing points in 500 characters or less is an exercise in futility.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@theunbinder and you continue to project your belief that I am irritated when I am not, so clearly you are delusional.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda What I mean with "over and over again about the 4 jhanas" plus the 4 higher states, is that they don't really answer my question. My question was the relation between jhana and nibbana. Actually you answered by repeating the question because the suttas (you mentioned MN-26 and 36) uses the term jhana and nibbana again, without explaining what jhana is all about. What jhana is all about, it is the main important point I wanted to tell you.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder The point expressed in 1/3 of the suttas is that the whole purpose of the N8P is to arrive at contemplation (jhana). Arriving at contemplation produces insight (vipassana). Both insight and contemplation work together to purify one which produces liberation.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@theunbinder It seems to be your interpretation that I respond offensively instead of objectively. Since you are the one who is clearly offensively, we could use your argument to prove that you have not attained jhana. Further, if you do not get the bliss and joy component of jhana, then by the suttas you have not attained jhana.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda I am sorry if any of my responses you consider as offensive. I never meant to be like that. As far as I remember, I was just telling the facts that any people can also see. When one tries to express a bitter fact related to a person, the person will tend to think that the statement is offensive. It is common to happen, especially to one who cannot or refuse to see the bitter fact by himself.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder And, clearly, you are misinterpreting my responses as offensive. So, clearly you are delusional.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda Having declared yourself attainment such as jhana, anagami, even arahant, then you responded offensively. I never declared myself any attainment, then (you think) I responded offensively. Thus, the shame should be on you, not on me. Please don't get irritated by this. I am just expressing the fact.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder you are still projecting your erroneous beliefs upon me. It seems that you are deeply offended by my videos. If you are so deeply offended by these videos then I suggest that you go elsewhere and find peace. After all, if you do not agree with them, then why keep coming back?
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda I'm surprised you think I am offended by your videos. I couldn't believe you think so. You forgot what I have said. In my earlier comment I told you my motivation, i.e. to explain some important points so that your understanding become more complete and correct. It is actually a good thing. You should be grateful.
Sorry it is my fault not to explain the reason right away after mentioning something is erroneous.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder however, I have already pointed out that it is your understanding that is delusional, and your expression is consistently offensive. Denial is the source of delusion. First look inside, correct the falsehoods inside of yourself, then look outside to find those you can help.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@theunbinder If there is no bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) then there is no jhana
Jhananda 5 months ago
@theunbinder Well, it seems like you are the one who is making the erroneous assumptions, because my response to not assume any attainment. Anyone can read my translations of the suttas, and my descriptions of contemplation, which is called jhana in the suttas, and make their own conclusion.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda And please keep in mind that I am here not to offend you. My motivation is for goodness, i.e. to inform you the important points so that your understanding becomes more complete (because your are not completely wrong, you only miss some points). Please put aside ego for awhile and discuss objectively with reference to the suttas.
theunbinder 6 months ago
@theunbinder If you truly understood jhana from personal experience with it, then you would agree with my description of it. So, clearly you have no attainment. The suttas are just a 2600 year-old description of a religious experience. How about speaking from personal experience instead of harping on an ancient and often times misunderstood document.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda Before talking about personal experience, you should understand one thing. There are 3 phases in learning the Buddha Dhamma:
1. Pariyatti Dhamma: learn the text (suttas) for accurate understanding
2. Patipatti Dhamma: bring the teaching into practice
3. Pativeda Dhamma: realization of the teaching, achieve the outcome
Unless one strives for finding the way to enlightenment by himself, which is not likely to happen while a Buddha's Teaching is available, the 1st phase is not applicable.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder One cannot attain Pariyatti Dhamma until one realizes that the Buddha dhamma has been misinterpreted for about 21 centuries. Bringing the teaching into practice is leading a rigours, self-aware, contemplative life. Realization of the teaching is attaining jhana, which will bring one to freedom from addictions and neuroses (hindrances). When one is free from addictions and neuroses (hindrances), then one has found realization in the dhamma.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda So you think we could not find the Dhamma in a valid form anymore? Well, I don't think so. Because the Buddha has predicted his teaching will last for about 5000 years (thus, two and half millennia still remain). And your opinion of misinterpretation is only based on a few words that you object (not mentioning whether your interpretation any better for some words), and they are not that important to be debated (e.g. the word "piti".)
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder Your aggressive filibustering of this channel should be proof enough the Buddha dhamma is dead. If, on the other hand the Buddha dhamma was alive and well, then my attainments would be valued by the Buddhist priesthood. And, you too would celebrate my attainments. And, if you did not have such attainments, then you would seek training from me.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda If you do Patipatti without Pariyatti first, you will be lost. This is the 2nd time I'm telling you. It is the same as if you want to go to a place (you never went there before) without any clue, without bringing the map, and without asking the people you meet along the road. What you will end up with is lost. It is that simple. There is nothing special here, only a simple logic.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder I studied and practiced meditation and philosophy (dhamma) for 40 years. In that time I studied from many Buddhist meditation teachers, priests and monks. I did not find one of them understood or valued the attainments (phala) that are the product of then skilful practice of meditation. Whereas, I have found fruitful attainment in no addictions and neuroses (hindrances) and abundant charisms (phala), such as contemplation (samadhi), insight (vipassana), OOBEs (manomaya).
Jhananda 5 months ago
Thus, we can conclude that I have stumbled upon a fruitful path, which means I have fulled both Patipatti and Pariyatti.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda "Realization of the teaching is attaining jhana,". Only attaining jhana is not a complete realization until one has attained The Goal, i.e. Nibbana. I wonder if you understand the relation between jhana and Nibbana. If you can provide an explanation, I would appreciate it. And one more thing for sure, there is no way to find neurosis as a hindrance in the Suttas. If neurosis is a result of wrong practice, it makes more sense.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder You may wish to re-read MN-26 and 36. In those suttas it is clear that the Buddha only realized he had found the path to Nibbana once he had attained the first jhana. Once he had fully realized the 4th jhana in MN-36 he says he is enlightened. Other suttas define the 8 liberations in terms of the upper 7 stages of samadhi, plus full liberation. Also, he defined the 8th fold of his Noble Eightfold Path in terms of samadhi, and he define samadhi in terms of jhana.
Jhananda 5 months ago
So, we can conclude, according to the Buddha that attainment of jhana is essential to the path to liberation and enlightenment, and its very definition.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda Your idea of misinterpretation, for some words, is just a way for you to JUSTIFY your experience, to make your experience matched the sutta. For example, the word "manomaya" you translated as out-of-body experience, which is erroneous. I can explain why it is erroneous.
Notice that every time I uncover the reality (truth) which lays deep inside your heart, you will become irritated. I can feel the previous irritation which I think caused by the word "deluded" in my previous post.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder anyone who has had a genuine out-of-body experience would see in the metaphors used in the suttas of a sword being withdrawn from a sheath, or a snake sloughing off its skin, is an accurate description of an OOBE; thus, we can conclude that you do not know what an OOBE, or "manomaya" is.
Also, every accusation from you that I am irritated with you is simply proof of your delusional state.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda So before speaking from personal experience, you should make your understanding quite accurate first, otherwise you will be out of track easily, become deluded.
It is not only you who have experienced the things you mentioned in your articles and videos. No one seemed to be so proud of but you. Conceit is one of the higher fetters. It is very hard to eradicate.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder It is not out of conceit that I openly discuss the phenomena of meditation. I speak openly about these phenomena because there is not one single Buddhist priest who seems to understand these phenomena, and they commonly warn people against these phenomena, and those who experience these phenomena in meditation are typically marginalized within a Buddhist context, therefore they are receiving no guidance.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda You asked me to speak from personal experience, fine. I have experienced those kind of sensations too, such as my mind so calm with crystal clear hearing of surrounding sounds, feeling like my head is on the sky above, feeling like as if my body is enlarged so huge, to mention a few. But they are NOT indication of progress at all, they are just obstacles. They occurs since at least one of the five hindrances still exists in the meditation.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder Good, you have once upon a time experienced jhana, so now try to do that every time you meditation, and meditate thus several times a day. i do, and i experience these phenomena every time I meditate. Further, there is no place in the suttas where one is warned against these phenomena. Instead these phenomena are called "maha-phala," and are the Buddha's very definition of success following his Noble Eightfold Path.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda Since the beginning I never declared or claimed that I have any attainment, but YOU did (obvious from your articles, videos, user groups). Why do you keep on trying to verify that I don't have any (jhana) attainment? Whether I have it or not, it is not important for you. You should verify yourself, that is important. But actually you have done it without you aware of it.
theunbinder 5 months ago
@theunbinder If you had the genuine attainment of jhana and other fruit (phala) of the contemplative life, then you would recognize that I too have such attainment, which means you would value my attainments, and honor me as a fellow attainer. Instead you filibuster this YouTube channel, and argue that I have no attainment ;-)
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda I've said earlier that you are not completely wrong. Your points which already correct are:
- Jhana is an important part of the Noble Eightfold Path to liberation
- Piti and sukha are important factor of jhana
So, I have no concern regarding the bliss and joy components. In my meditation experience the pleasures were also present. What I wanted to address is not related to any of those points.
theunbinder0 5 months ago
@Jhananda I'm pretty sure you never know or never consider the point I wanted to address, because I couldn't find it in your articles and videos. You thought I haven't read your articles on your website? FYI, I have read your articles and have watched your videos before posting my first comment.
Even the mainstream Buddhist and meditation teachers out there rarely mention this important point for jhana validation. It seemed to be forgotten by many people, but it is right there in the Suttas.
theunbinder0 5 months ago
@Jhananda Ok now comes the time to mention the important point to validate jhana. If you ever read DN 9 (Potthapada Sutta) it says "with training one perception ceases and another perception arises". It is said that perception of sensuality ceases in the first jhana. It is consistent with other suttas which describe first jhana as "withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities(5 hindrances)". But cessation of perception of sensuality doen't mean one doesn't hear, smell, or see.
theunbinder0 5 months ago
@theunbinder0 I agree that withdrawing one's attention upon the sensory domain is essential for experiencing contemplation (jhana, samahi). In the west we take that as a given.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda It is not about agree or not agree. "You agree" doesn't always mean you understand. In your video titled "the 4 jhanas", when you described the 3rd jhana at minute 7:48, it proves that your perception of sensuality was still present, thus it was false 3rd jhana. So by definition in the suttas, you have not attained any jhana. This proof is a CHECKMATE for you. Please provide me a detailed and make-sense explanation if it is not jhana delusion.
theunbinder1 5 months ago
@theunbinder1 It sounds like you subscribe to a belief that the jhanas arise in the absence of sensory awareness. While I would agree that during the practice of meditation one withdraws one's awareness from the sensory domain, it is nonetheless my experience that all 4 jhanas occur during partial awareness of the sensory domain. And, the suttas support my experience.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda My belief is based on what I found in the suttas. If you read Digha Nikaya 9 carefully, you will find: sensual perception ceases in the 1st jhana. It doesn't say partially ceases as in your experience. Cease and partially cease are different, it is obvious. How can you say the sutta support your experience? I told you it is a checkmate.
theunbinder2 5 months ago
@theunbinder2 the interesting, or perhaps pathetic, part of religion, is one can interpret it anyway they want. So, you have found an interpretation that suits you, but I disagree with your interpretation. Now, you have the freedom to believe whatever you want to, and express it freely; but why do you feel that I need to believe in your warped interpretation of the suttas?
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda Apparently you like to turn the tables around, committing baseless accusations. I didn't do any interpretation but you said: "warped interpretation of the suttas". In fact, the cessation of perception is mentioned EXPLICITLY in the suttas, one doesn't need to do any interpretation since it is already clearly mentioned there.
Let's see who has actually done a warped, twisted interpretation here. And I don't need you to believe my understanding, I just want to show you some facts.
theunbinder3 5 months ago
@theunbinder2 In the Samaññaphala Sutta (DN 2) it says regarding to the 4 jhanas, "...his body is filled (abhisanteti1) to overflowing (parisanneti2) with bliss (piiti), joy (sukha)..." Since it refers to the physical body it seems reasonable to conclude the sensory domain is present to the contemplative
Jhananda 5 months ago
@theunbinder2 further, in the Ariyapariyesana Sutta (MN 26.28) it says regarding the 5th samahdi, "with complete transcendence of perceptions of the physical domain (råpasaññànaü), passing beyond (samatikkama) the rapacious material world (pañighasaññànaü), extinguishing (atthagamà) the variety of sensory perceptions (nànattasaññànaü), without the endless pull of mental activity (amanasikàrà ananto àkàsoti), one travels within (upasampajja viharati) the astral plane (àkàsànañcàyatanaü)."
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda You misunderstand between "rupasanna" and "kamasanna", i.e between rupa and kama. Rupa means "form" (physical domain), while kama means "sensuality" (sensory domain). What I was talking about is kamasanna, i.e perception of kama, which ceases in the 1st jhana (DN-9, read the pali, you'll find "kamasanna nirujhati" in the 1st jhana and "rupasanna nirujhati" in the 5th jhana). There is nothing about sensory domain in the 5th jhana, this is one proof of your twisted interpretation.
theunbinder3 5 months ago
@Jhananda And also the word "nanattasanna", nanatta means "manifoldness" (idea of multiformity), thus your translation (variety of sensory perceptions) is not appropriate. This is why you got your interpretation twisted. This is the importance to seriuosly do your Pariyatti first, not later which only to support your opinion.
theunbinder3 5 months ago
@theunbinder2 with DN-1 and MN-26 we can conclude that according to the Buddha the sensory domain was present to the contemplative during the first four stages of samadhi, which he called "jhana."
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda Reference to the physical body is not enough to conclude the presence of sensory domain (perception of sensuality). Clearly you don't understand perception (sanna). Only physical body (sense organ) is not enough without contact (phassa), consciousness and the object (to be perceived). If you say only physical body is sufficient, then you would agree that a corpse can perceive things with its eyes, ears, etc. So, based on this reason your interpretation is indeed warped.
theunbinder3 5 months ago
@theunbinder I appears that your own ego investment in your erroneous belief systems has driven you to filibuster this YouTube channel. Instead, why don't you spend a little more time meditating to the depths of samadhi every day, as I do, before you look like nothing more than a balloon puffed up with nothing but hot air.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda The Buddha said (MN 36):
"Quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities, I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. BUT the pleasant feeling that arose in this way DID NOT invade my mind or remain."
You have misunderstood the teaching if you cling to the ecstasy. Either no one has told you about this, or you just too ignorant to listen.
theunbinder 6 months ago
@theunbinder If you believe that any one who has attained jhana clings to anything, then you do not understand the suttas.
Jhananda 6 months ago
@Jhananda There are errors in your statement.
1. It should be: "If you believe that NO one who has attained jhana clings to anything, then you do not understand the suttas." Because unless one has attained arahantship (has ended all mental fermentation), one won't attach to anything. Thus, having only attained(undoubtedly) 1-4 jhanas doesn't always mean one free from clinging. This is where you don't understand the suttas.
theunbinder 6 months ago
@theunbinder Also, the translations of the suttas have numerous errors in them. For instance a 'rapture' is an out of body experience. So, a better translation of the Pali term 'piiti' is 'bliss.'
Jhananda 5 months ago
The tongue going back is a jnana? You said automatic movements. My head moves, the tongue goes back and the fingers join. I don't need to meditate longer than 20 minutes for this to occur. My tongue has gone back in 30 seconds upon sitting. I don't meditate every day and never have. Every other day. And there is no experience of bliss or ecstasy. Just relaxation.
klindred 6 months ago
@klindred Well, 'jhana' is a term that appears in the Discourses of the Buddha; however, no place in those suttas is a reference to tongue placement. The key descriptors for jhana in those suttas is bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha). If we examine the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali we find no place in those sutras in reference to tongue placement; however, we find bliss (ananda) and joy (sukha) are used to describe samadhi. In my case histories each subject describes bliss and joy when in samadhi.
Jhananda 6 months ago
@Jhananda The tongue going back is a well known automatic movement called kechari mudra. Buddha mentions kechari mudra. This is not to mention the other movements i wrote.
klindred 6 months ago
@klindred There is no reference to "kechari mudra," or any other form of tongue placement in the Discourses of the Buddha. No form of tongue placement appears anywhere in the record of the Christian mystics. And, no form of tongue placement appears anywhere in the record of the Sufi mystics. We can conclude that tongue placement is unique to a few yoga schools and may therefore maybe completely irrelevant in the religious experience.
Jhananda 6 months ago
@Jhananda There is certainly a reference to tongue placement in the Buddhist texts for i have read it. The Bible says, "and their tongues shall cleave to the roof of their mouths" and i have heard from some christian mystics that experience it but do not talk about it. Whether it is relevent or not in the religious experience is an open question, since not all mystics will have the same bodily manifestations.
klindred 6 months ago
@klindred All you have to do to support your premises is to sight your sources.
Jhananda 6 months ago
@Jhananda It isn't something i need to do at all unless it is demanded of me. You can easily search google for that information yourself. Furthermore, you concentrated on the tongue movement and not the head movements or the finger mudras that i mentioned. Nor did you explain why certain movements are standard in terms of mystical experience. I commented on your video by asking you a question initially and offering my POV as a means to see what you had to say ie confirm for me. cont
klindred 6 months ago
@klindred When I collect a case history I evaluate the subject based upon a series of criteria, which I extracted from the major mystics. I would not consider collecting a case history from someone who only meditates 30 minutes every other day.
Jhananda 6 months ago
Respond to this video... It seems you weren't prepared to acknowledge my position but instead chose to belittle it. But that is ok, nobody expects anything less from self proclaimed gurus and teachers.
klindred 6 months ago
@klindred Every one of my contemplative subjects practices meditation every day, and they practice meditation several times a day for periods of 30 minutes or more. We can conclude that there is nothing in your practice or experience that suggests that you are experiencing samadhi.
Jhananda 6 months ago
@Jhananda I have practiced meditation for 30 minutes up to an hour every other day and sometimes on consecutive days for the last 10 years. I didn't claim i experienced samadhi. However, i do experience automatic movements so if this is considered a type of samadhi i do indeed experience samadhi.
klindred 6 months ago
@klindred Well, then do a critical analysis of your work verses my work, and/or site your case histories, and/or site your sources, to support your premises
Jhananda 6 months ago
@klindred My research into historic references to religious experiences, and my case histories with living subjects having religious experiences, shows that this class of subject meditates every day, several times per day, and for long periods of time, such as an hour or more. This suggests that your automatic movements are most likely not related to the religious experience.
Jhananda 6 months ago
@Jhananda My research into historic and present day religious experiences shows that 20 minutes of twice daily meditation is enough to produce profound spiritual experiences including automatic movements. Further, earlier you said it was 30 mins at a time and now you are saying it is an hour or more. You seem almost quick to dismiss what i have said without humbly considering that you could be incorrect or perhaps mistaken.
klindred 6 months ago
The cross over after one’s mind has full understanding of Ti-lakkhana (in either angle), the mind will surpass lokiya into lokuttara-magga. One who is attached to jhanas till death is likely to appear in Brahma-world for long long time !!
kentlim1000 11 months ago
@kentlim1000 there seems to be some confusion for you here. Only the first 4 stages of samadhi were called 'jhana' in the suttas. The commentaries mistakenly called the remaining 4 stages of samadhi "arupa jhana." This can create some confusion in discussion and understanding. So, when I use the term 'jhana' I only refer to the first 4 stages of samadhi.
Jhananda 11 months ago
Respond to this video... If you examine MN-36 you will find that after the Buddha left his two teachers and rejected the 6th and 7th stages of samadhi, he then found the 4 jhanas, and through them found freedom from suffering. Also, by definition, since the attainment of the 4 jhanas requires one to be withdrawn (vivicceva) from sensuality (kàmehi), and withdrawn from unwholesome mental states and beliefs (akusalehi dhammehi), then attachment is not an option
Jhananda 11 months ago
One practices dhamma not becoz of jhanas but one should learn and be able to make an insight judgment of understandings on Ti-Lakkhana - the 3 characteristics of existence. At the time when they reach conclusion, their minds will automatically attain jhanas without an attempt and practicing jhanas before.
kentlim1000 11 months ago
@kentlim1000 it has been my personal experience with jhana for 40 years that intuitive, revelatory, insight is the product of jhana. And, the deeper one goes into jhana, and the more one spends in jhana, then the more intuitive, revelatory, insight I experience.
Jhananda 11 months ago
Experiencing jhanas are good things. Also, i feel much respectul to those who are able to achieve jhanas. However, there is a tendency where Jhanas could create problem at the end where "atta" or "self" are mounting without awareness. Just like one builds mass destructive weapons which need to be destroyed at last but they don t know or aware of. The 2 teachers of Prince Siddhattha also missed nirvana despite that they were master of jhanas.
kentlim1000 11 months ago
@kentlim1000 most people who report the authentic experience of contemplation (jhana) report that the experience is a non-dual experience. A non duel experience is an experience of no-self, or loss of ego; therefore the experience if contemplation (jhana) cannot lead to building the ego.
Jhananda 5 months ago
@Jhananda with respect, I believe that inference is not a logical necessity. The experience of loss of ego does not necessitate lack of ego building. One can say to themselves, "I have attained the experience of loss of ego (ego death, non-dual awareness), thus I am an advanced meditator -- I am good -- I am unique." All of which are potentially ego building statements.
Peace
jojajico 3 months ago
@jojajico One who has developed skill with meditation to the point of developing one or more of the 8 stages of contemplation is not likely to say to one's self, "I have attained the experience of loss of ego (ego death, non-dual awareness), thus I am an advanced meditator -- I am good -- I am unique." If one does, then one most probably is playing mind games.
Jhananda 3 months ago
thanks for replying... that s fine if you disagree. please note jhanas have existed before the enlightment of the lord buddha. if one attain nirvana, one could see several path to reach the mountain peak.
kentlim1000 11 months ago
@kentlim1000 Yes, I agree one should be open to disagreement in any religion. While you believe that the stages of samadhi that the Buddha called 'jhana' existed before him, and surely they did, but the term does not appear in any Indic literature before him. And, of course I am sure you are aware of his attainment of the 6th and 7th levels of samadhi before that, reported in MN-36 , and not finding them fulfilling; however, in that same sutta is where we see him attain jhana and fulfillment
Jhananda 11 months ago
jhanas are by-product or a complimentary for people who practice meditations regularly and properly. we are not learning dhamma for a purpose of attaining jhanas. we practice dhamma simply to observe and understand true nature of the universe that all things falls under the same laws of nature which are anicca, dukkha and anatta in order to get ride of ignorance and eventually achieve highest wisdom (nirvana)
kentlim1000 11 months ago
@kentlim1000 actually the Discourses of the Buddha consistently define the 8th fold of the Noble Eightfold Path in terms of jhana. Thus, anyone who claims to be a Buddhist must, by definition, be seeking jhana. However, most mainstream forms of Buddhism teach, as you believe, that jhana is optional, a by-product, or a complimentary for people who practice meditations regularly. The point in the suttas, is meditation (sati) leads to contemplation (jhana).
Jhananda 11 months ago
only few people can do this pleace keep spread this dhamma
MNKW123 1 year ago
@MNKW123 thank-you for posting your support for the mission of the GWV. Yes, I agree, few people can attain the 8 levels of contemplation (jhana, samadhi). But, i do not believe it is because few are capable. It is just that we have all been misled. I am confident with proper guidance anyone can attain these blissful states.
Jhananda 1 year ago
Born from connom sense, it's inspirative; wish well to you
naashee 1 year ago
@naashee thank-you for expressing your kind support of this Ecstatic Buddhist video series
Jhananda 1 year ago
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naashee 1 year ago
jhananda have you read the yoga sutras? do you go through the stages patanjali talks about - concentration, meditation, and absorption - to establish yourself in meditation?
Aeranlaes 1 year ago
@Aeranlaes yes, I have read several translations of the Yoga Sutras, all of which seemed flawed, so I translated it for myself. To me the limbs of Patanjali's Yoga Sutras are not unlike the Buddha's Eightfold Path. Both models are attempts to describe the contemplative life, which is more about self awareness and not at all about burying the psyche under a mountain of ritualized devotional practices. So, leading a rigorous self-aware contemplative life brought me to the ecstasies.
Jhananda 1 year ago
So do you recommend focusing on the goal of jhana itself in meditating for these long sittings, or letting go completely without another goal?
pawbard 1 year ago
@pawbard I had success in following anapanasati and Kayagati sati, which are about observing the body and the breath as a vehicle of self-awareness, stress-release and relaxation. However, always in the back of my mind was the idea that by leading a rigorous contemplative life I would find bliss, joy, ecstasy and liberation, so when I was meditating I was at least expecting those results, and I got them. Most of my case histories with mystics suggests they followed the same strategy.
Jhananda 1 year ago
@Jhananda Thank you!
pawbard 1 year ago
@pawbard thank-you for expressing your appreciation for the GWV Ecstatic Buddhist video series
Jhananda 1 year ago
Comment removed
LunaIJune 1 year ago
@LunaIJune Thank-you for posting your comment to this video. Yes, I agree, and it was my point to show that those who meditate for long sessions on a regular basis can expect to experience ecstatic altered states of consciousness
Jhananda 1 year ago
thank you, jhanananda, for another video. I enjoy watching and learning from these, so please continue to make them!
distronic 1 year ago
@distronic Thank-you for your kind and supportive words. I have made 5 more videos and will be uploading them in the next few weeks
Jhananda 1 year ago