Technically you have to win on your opponent's first turn not before it because the only step before upkeep is untap and abilities and spells can't be played during the untap step by either player.
@Ulianov465 sure about that?! what i recall its only monsters that can be played during next upkeep and since he not paying to keep them alive except using sacrificial means to bury them it have to take place during the upkeep!
and i think the spell is an instant meaning you can play it directly or even at your opponents upkeep as a counter feature! so yeah its done before first round that conclude both players should have played there first upkeep
@siggesatan No, you can't do anything on (or before) an untap step from either player, and if you do it on the upkeep, which you can do, it is technically on, not before, your opponent's first turn.
@Coldmancer Glistener elf turn 1 4 mutagenic growths and a giant growth turn 2 I have a deck completely based around 2 turn infect i can do 2 turn or 3 turn unblockable
@Tofu4Dinner Turn 1, Forest and Glistener Elf. Turn 2, Forest. Attack with glistener elf. When the damage starts getting calculated, use Monstrous Growth x? (depends on how many are in your hand) then either use Vines of Vastwood (kicked) to protect from spells, Unnatural Preditation and giant growth if blocked (it gains trample), or just two giant growths if they can't do squat. Usually can average between 11 to 14 poison counters each time. The main thing is, you want to go first
This deck looks pretty neat, and thanks guys for answering my queries. In any event for fun I have decided to construct this deck. Any cards I didn't have I simply acquired from Ebay. Next time when I have reunion I am going to bring this deck out to play. LOL.
@Linedash The beauty of this is that it is an extremely elaborate strategy. Look how many cards were used to make this strategy. Magic the gathering has thousands of cards, and the people who made this strategy had to look through that list to come up with something like this. Think of how long it would take someone to come up with this. I'm sure it took quite a few months, at the very least.
This is the fastest version of Flash Hulk, but isn't the best. There are more consistent builds that can safely survive early disruption; this build requires a bit of luck to get a good hand. This is my favorite build though, it's so cool to be able to win before turn 1.
Since the minimum deck size is 40 why do you need street wraith? You are more likely to get the cards you need without the need to cycle the street wraith.
you know your screwed after turn 3 yeah? but good deck, nearly as good as arcbelchor decks, not that I have problems with em' with my troll blue control/counter deck or my white weenie
@rooster5man When the Protean Hulk's death trigger activates, it makes him search his deck for any number of creatures whose total converted mana cost is 6 or less and put them into play. He grabs 12 creatures: 4 Shifting Wall, 4 Phyrexian Marauder which each have 0 converted mana cost (X = 0 in the library) and 4 Disciples of the Vault. They all enter play at the same time and he doesn't have to pay any mana for any of them, just the two mana for the flash.
Why use Disciple+Marauder+Wall to combo out, when you can do it for only 8 slots with 2xReveillark, 2xBodyDouble, 2xViscara Seer, 2xMogg Fanatic? Protean Hulk gets BD and VS; BD copies PH; VS sacs it, and it goes search RL and MF; MF deals 1 damage, and VS sacs RL, which brings back MF and BD (as a copy of RL); MF deals 1 again, VS sacs BD, which brings back MF and itself! repeat for infinite damage!
I know it's much more complicated, but you use lesser slots to fit in 4xGitaxian Probe :)
I know a way to play Emrakul on turn 2 with haste. Although it involves sacrificing 18 of ur life. But doesnt matter. You'll attack with haste, whipe theyr field, deal 15 damage, and u get another turn to do the same. God forbid they pull a lightning bolt though,
this deck is banned in legacy and it is called the Flash Hulk. This is a real deck and during the time this deck is legal in legacy it is regarded as the best combo deck and after winning the protour, this deck was immediately banned
Mindbreak trap :D (PS: You do start off with gemstone mines and any Leylines on the field, but you can only activate abilities in the upkeep, 1st main phase, before attackers declared, after attackers declared, before blockers declared, after blockers declared, before combat damage, after combat damage, 2nd main phase. The game already started by the time somebody could start this.)
Plus check this out: play Black Lotus, sac for 3 green, play red land, tap for red mana, play Channel for 19 life to colorless mana, Blaze for 20 he's dead. And you have a misdirection or force of will or something in your hand, just in case...
If i remember the Disciple of the Vault is banned. For a good reason ;)
The second in the world championship strategy was based on myrs and Disciples
@ShadowDreadblade Disciple of the vault is only banned in Mirrodin block constructed. Channel, Black Lotus and flash are restricted in vintage and banned in every other sanctioned format. The deck's only playable casually, but it's still a pretty neat idea. If you really want to win turn one, two-land charbelcher and ANT both have pretty good tracks records and are both legal in Legacy.
"Whenever an artifact is put into a graveyard from play, you may have target opponent lose 1 life." It does not read, "Whenever an artifact is put into a graveyard from play, you may have Disciple of the Vault deal 1 damage to target player." Unless I've been playing wrong all these years, 4 of these in play at once does not allow you to do 4 damage per artifact. The effect of the card has a global effect, so having 4 of these is the same as 1, as 1 artifact into a graveyard is 1 loss of life.
@MrSwiftyNinja So each cards ability activates when the affect takes place then, eh? So a card such as Norn's Annex, how should this work? If 2 are in play, is it (Phyrexian White) per artifact, so 2, or the effect only works once per attacking creature, even though 2 are in play?
@spectois Ther's a reason that card is banned in M2012 set lol. If you have two of those, you'd have to pay 4 life (or 2 white mana) to attack you or a planeswalker. You wouldn't be able to use that card in a tourny though. Another example would be Mirrorworks. If you have two, you have to pay 4 mana for both to take effect, but both can take effect.
@MrSwiftyNinja ah ok, so each card's ability does trigger no matter the card. That makes sense. although, unless i misread your statement, Norn's Annex is legal in standard.
@spectois Is it? I saw it was in the New Phyrexia set, so I assumed it wasn't legal in M12 standard. I don't think it is, but it might be. You'd have to double check before you put that in a tourny deck lol. If you're playing with friends, that's fine of course lol.
@MrSwiftyNinja yea, i mostly do just play with friends, but lately we have been trying to stick to standard - legal decks, as throwing in old cards makes for too many <5 turn wins, consistantly (being that you can combo from anything). and yea, according to the Gatherer, it is legal in standard.
@spectois Cool. I might put that in one of my decks now lol. It's a shame there isn't a way to play online, or I'd definitely love to play against you. Maybe in the future lol. If you ever wanna talk Magic, feel free to hit me up, I'll give you some of the strategies I like to use. =3
@MrSwiftyNinja yea, absolutely. there is magic online, but i dont get it. (although i am thinking about starting up an account). with games im going to get coming out soon, im not sure how much time i would spend on it / get my moneys worth.
@MrSwiftyNinja You know that standard isn't just the latest block or core set don't you? At the moment, standard comprises Zendikar, Worldwake, Rise of the Eldrazi, Magic 2011, Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin Besieged, New Phyrexia and Magic 2012. On 30th Sept when Innistrad is released, Zendikar block and Magic 2011 will cycle out of standard.
Only two cards are currently banned, and Norn's annex is not one of them. To be honest it is not really a great card and doesn't see tournament play.
@spectois You've been playing wrong man. The effect means that for each artifact that dies, you can have an opponent loose 1 life, there's 4 Disciples with 8 artifacts so it does 32 damage.
I don't care when this video was posted because four years ago the rules were exactly the same. The only rule change that was made in the last four years was a combat rule. Before that was the rule change in like 1995 dealing with the banishment of mana burn because they realized it was kind of a stupid idea. Not exactly game changing.
Btw...this deck doesn't work. The gemstone caverns idea was good but the cards you discard can only be discarded by their own effects to activate that trigger. If you discard them with gemstone caverns it only discards the card, doesn't trigger the ability. Now if they were like obstinate baloth and said "If a spell or ability makes you discard this card, activate this effect" Then it would be legit but until then, L2P Magic son.
You cant do that. It says if you a luck counter on it, you tap it for any color of mana instead of just a colorless, not both. Therefore, you couldnt cast flash.
@LipsOfADeadGirl Actually discarding the elvish spirit guid or simian spirit guide gives you one mana, in addtion to the one blue mana you had from your land. So you actually have 2 mana
Also, the first opportunity you have to play anything other than leylines or gemstone caverns is during their first upkeep. Spells cannot be played during the untap step because no one receives priority then, so it is impossible to do anything until the first upkeep step. And because your opponent receives priority before you during each of their steps, they could play any zero-cost instants before you can even begin this combo. Your combo is awesome, but not foolproof.
@BionicKing and @jedi1josh There is no such thing as turn zero. You are playing during your opponent's turn one. This is not your "turn zero" because it is not your turn. Saying "turn zero" implies you are playing before your opponent's first turn, which is impossible, and therefore misleading.
@WTFuneral It's 8 damage for each disciple of the vault in play. 4 disciples x 8 walls = 32 ability triggers. Also note that this is loss of life and not direct damage, so even if it were turn 2 or more, it can't be prevented. there is a flaw in the strategy, however. It requires you to have an ideal hand and it only plays cards from the library. If you have some of those cards in hand, you could miss out on some damage. Good thing there's 12 life in wiggle room there. :)
@WTFuneral There are 4 Disciples on the board, and each one would deal 8 damage with their triggers. 4 x 8 = 32 damage. Hulk Flash was a very legit deck for awhile...
@JohnWLennon1980 lol that entire deck would be screwed in vintage half of the deck would have to be put into side bored, that is cute though i'll give it that, there are two blue cards that would rape that deck anyway because they are turn zero counter spells.
This is all very simple to explain, Gemstone cavern can only be played if you are not going first. You will never receive priority to cast a spell until The other player either casts a spell or passes through a phase. No one get priority until after the upkeep unless there are already cards requiring action during upkeep.
I know this is an old video, but actually, though still turn 0 because you haven't taken a turn, you CANNOT win before your opponent's upkeep step. This is because there is no window to cast spells or play abilities until the upkeep. You can do nothing before this except with a card such as howling mines, which won't come out turn 0. Yes, you can start with permanents on the battlefield, but during the game you cannot cast spells until the first upkeep.
@BionicKing I never contradicted that. You haven't taken a turn, so it's turn zero. However, the video claims to be doing things other than gemstone caverns before the upkeep step, which isn't possible.
yeah, making a first-turn win deck that isnt tournament legal is effortless. example: 30 black lotus, 20 ancestral recall, 10 brain freeze. wins first turn every time no matter the hand, the only way you can possibly lose is if you dont draw at least one black lotus or one ancestral recall, in any of your mulligans!
@Grimoi Often times combo players create deck themes like these to play in solitaire. There are also casual decks that are fun for groups of players. Read into it if you'd like.
this combo wont work and its stupid, if you want a turn zero kill just play first drop a dark depths, vamp hex mage and a kicked goblin bushwacker with 4 lotus pettles, BAM and thats legacy legal
@Grimoi Good riddance. I'm one of the strongest advocates against being a dick, but if somebody really quits Magic over losing to Flash Hulk, it's pretty much an inevitability, if not from Flash Hulk,. then because "HTARMOGOYF IS OP!"
@darkstorm331 The first legendary land is played before the start of the game due to it's ability, and the rest of the cards are played as instants(Flash) or abilities triggering(Protean Hulk dying, resulting in getting 12 creatures out).
Has anyone actually noticed this deck is illegal in any format but casual? In Legacy Flash is BANNED, and in vintage it's restricted so you can only have on copy in your deck. On top of that, seeing as how you could only make this in a casual format no one would play against you if you are using this deck as it would be no fun for them. Ergo, this is a huge waste of money and a stupid idea as you will never get to use it.
Figuring out how to make ridiculous decks like this is fun, but playing them isn't. Well, it might be fun the first time you use it on a friend just to get their reaction, then retire it, but constantly playing it is bogus imo. To each his own though.
This strategy is what I fondly call "pussy coward." It's cool, though: I guess if you got bullied a lot in school, you probably need some way to make yourself feel good about your life.
@lolbeanable not at all actually.you need 1 gemstone cavern 1 simian spirit guid OR 1 elvish spirit guide 1 flash and 1 protean hulk OR summoner's pact.that's 4 cards and you have 4 times each in your deck.i would say that you would get the combo once every 10 games or so.of course the other 9 you don't stand a chanse but o well it's a fun deck :) plus you don't need to do it on round 0 even if are on round 2(where have drawn 2 more cards) it's still very unlikely they will be able to counter it
@Dialga355 1/10 is still not good odds, sorry. I think I'll stick to my modular deck. Not as fast, but guarunteed to win if the game goes into round 4. =D
@lolbeanable do you not play with friends?when i beat my friend in a rediculous way we just laugh our ass off.in the end the game was ment to be fun it's not all about wining =/
and each time 1 artifact creature dies, since there are four disciples of the vault, it will do 4 damage to the opponent. So 8 artifacts dying, will do 8 x 4 = 32 damage.
@JonnyClouston pls learn magic, or at least read the cards before you write stupid things.. he gets the second mana with elvish/simian spirit guide. and protean hulk puts the chosen cards instantly on to the battlefield, so he doesnt have to pay for the disciples!
Stopped watching when it said to play something before upkeep. No one has priority before upkeep. No one can play anything until the turn begins. There is no such thing as turn zero.
whoever wrote this doesn't understand magic phases or the oracle text for this.
"No player receives priority during the untap step, meaning that no cards or abilities can be played at that time. During the upkeep and draw steps, however, players can cast instants and activate abilities as normal."
so you can't play anything until "turn 1" begins. in which case, the opponent can still counter e.g. force of will
then they'll know the deck dependencies and counter them
@Grimoi and then he ultimately has a better life because of this experience. He becomes a business tycoon and invests in a series of small companies that earn him upwards of 136 billion dollars.
this may be possible but why would you want to do this? since I'm assuming this wouldn't be a tournament legal deck you would be using it against random people or your friends and it would just piss them off and make them not want to play. what's the point? this would just cause you to be labeled as the douche who kills on turn zero and would make no one want to play with you
This is quite possibal in tech terms of turn zero because if the draw is won and you play gemstone caverns, simian and ESG you r just playing off the stack and the stack never lies there for turn one has not come since the interupts r on the stack and no one has really taken a turn for a offical draw. Unless you play with more then 2 ppl every one an draw on the beginning of there turn even the player who wins the mana cut or dice roll.
@Stickbrush : There's more than just one of them out there. I have a deck with an infinite dameage combo in it. It really just depends on how creative you are in trying to build a winning deck.
Stop being losers haha. yes this can happen, i've read about it, maybe you didn't. And of course this takes all the fun from the game, it's not the point that everybody now on plays this deck, but it's still amazing that something lika this is possible in magic. it's a great engine.
But.. nobody gets priority turn 0.. you can't do it before his upkeep. You must really mean during his upkeep before he gets to draw, which is still t1. There's only two maybe three legit t0 wins.
@Katyrzana: Yes, but this is one of those legit turn 0 kills, because if you win the draw, then your opponent doesn't get the opportunity to draw. Therefore, this happens before his upkeep, which also comes before his draw phase.
Furthermore, I get that this makes a really cool trick, but why would actually try to play this deck? It's not fun for anyone- it's just you showing us all how your deck works, except we call it a game. It's Magic maturbation- you're just playing with yourself, really. I have a friend who has a deck like this- when he wants to play, I just say "Let's play- I concede" over and over until he decides to play a game that interacts with other players.
Okay, since Mystical Tutor and Flash are restricted, even in Vintage, this deck is about as worthless as the $3 bill that somebody slipped me back in the 60s. Can't win with a deck that you can't freakin play...totally lame.
Where the fuck do you get 4 black mana? I'm just saying that this video is bullshit since he first uses 2 creatures to get one red and one green mana, then the land to get one blue mana, but he never gets 4 black mana, The creature has to be out on the field idiot
Who the fuck would want to win in the first turn?? I mean... where's the fun in that?
blizard0717 1 week ago
@blizard0717 Money, friend. At the tourney level, most of us are playing for either the cash, or for the box prize (which we sell for cash).
This is one of the reasons why I detest Legacy; it's all business. There is zero fun factor. Standard format is teh win
Hackwriter01 18 hours ago
Black Lotus + Fireball + Candleabra of Tawnos + City of Traitors
Chemrmnce1234 1 week ago
@Chemrmnce1234
You have to tap Candelabra of Tawnos to use it.
Pook365 1 week ago
Technically you have to win on your opponent's first turn not before it because the only step before upkeep is untap and abilities and spells can't be played during the untap step by either player.
Ulianov465 1 week ago
@Ulianov465 sure about that?! what i recall its only monsters that can be played during next upkeep and since he not paying to keep them alive except using sacrificial means to bury them it have to take place during the upkeep!
and i think the spell is an instant meaning you can play it directly or even at your opponents upkeep as a counter feature! so yeah its done before first round that conclude both players should have played there first upkeep
siggesatan 1 week ago
@siggesatan No, you can't do anything on (or before) an untap step from either player, and if you do it on the upkeep, which you can do, it is technically on, not before, your opponent's first turn.
Ulianov465 1 week ago
Goodnight Vienna!
smpxix 2 weeks ago
@Coldmancer Glistener elf turn 1 4 mutagenic growths and a giant growth turn 2 I have a deck completely based around 2 turn infect i can do 2 turn or 3 turn unblockable
TaylorIreland 3 weeks ago
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butterbps98 3 weeks ago
Leyline of the Void and nothing happens... :D
GreekTuber2011 3 weeks ago 9
Man, and I thought my two turn infect deck was evil. It pales in comparison to this deck.
Youtheman1980 4 weeks ago
@Youtheman1980
You can get a turn two kill with infect? Look out, we got a badass over here
Tofu4Dinner 4 weeks ago
@Tofu4Dinner Turn 1, Forest and Glistener Elf. Turn 2, Forest. Attack with glistener elf. When the damage starts getting calculated, use Monstrous Growth x? (depends on how many are in your hand) then either use Vines of Vastwood (kicked) to protect from spells, Unnatural Preditation and giant growth if blocked (it gains trample), or just two giant growths if they can't do squat. Usually can average between 11 to 14 poison counters each time. The main thing is, you want to go first
Youtheman1980 4 weeks ago
@Youtheman1980 You can't get two turn kill with infect
Coldmancer 3 weeks ago
@Coldmancer Yes you can and I have done it more then once
Youtheman1980 3 weeks ago
@Tofu4Dinner Also, when it was still a standard deck, it won a legacy tournament.
Youtheman1980 4 weeks ago
@Youtheman1980
Yes, I'm well aware of the combo. Everyone knows this combo
Tofu4Dinner 4 weeks ago
@Tofu4Dinner Could of had me fooled.
Youtheman1980 4 weeks ago
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shinobiwan0 1 month ago
dick move. but funny
gundamassassin241 1 month ago
This deck looks pretty neat, and thanks guys for answering my queries. In any event for fun I have decided to construct this deck. Any cards I didn't have I simply acquired from Ebay. Next time when I have reunion I am going to bring this deck out to play. LOL.
mrfriendlyguy 1 month ago
great game, where you lose before its even started. turn zero win rofl mtg suks.
Linedash 1 month ago
@Linedash The beauty of this is that it is an extremely elaborate strategy. Look how many cards were used to make this strategy. Magic the gathering has thousands of cards, and the people who made this strategy had to look through that list to come up with something like this. Think of how long it would take someone to come up with this. I'm sure it took quite a few months, at the very least.
Netherfist 1 month ago
@Linedash +9999
albbis 1 week ago
How is it that you tap (1) for blue mana?
damnagoraz 2 months ago
@damnagoraz The luck counter on Gemstone Caverns allows it to tap for a color of your choice.
zharnotczar 1 month ago
oh, ncswarmer said the same thing that i said....im just reading it now
Bur1go 2 months ago
this is actualy a bad flash deck becouse it can be stoped with FoW
but a good flash deck wouldn't on turn 0
also, the body snatcher combo (wich was used before flash was banned) or the body double combo (that is used now) are better
Bur1go 2 months ago
This is the fastest version of Flash Hulk, but isn't the best. There are more consistent builds that can safely survive early disruption; this build requires a bit of luck to get a good hand. This is my favorite build though, it's so cool to be able to win before turn 1.
ncswarmer 2 months ago
Since the minimum deck size is 40 why do you need street wraith? You are more likely to get the cards you need without the need to cycle the street wraith.
mrfriendlyguy 2 months ago
@mrfriendlyguy Minimum size is 60, so Street Wraith is needed to thin the deck.
ncswarmer 2 months ago
@mrfriendlyguy It's only 40 in booster draft. In constructed the minimum is 60.
DjRadioIbles 1 month ago
@DjRadioIbles Thanks, I didn't know this.
mrfriendlyguy 1 month ago
what about channell, initiates, drain life????
MydogTobes 2 months ago
you know your screwed after turn 3 yeah? but good deck, nearly as good as arcbelchor decks, not that I have problems with em' with my troll blue control/counter deck or my white weenie
HappyFeetWomboCombo 2 months ago
this is totally frikkin cool i had no idea you could win the game before your opponent's first draw step.
JUSTlNTIMBERLAKE 2 months ago
I built this deck card for card and it works awesome
icybear1 2 months ago
Bah, just have 20 cheatyfaces up your sleeve and distract your opponent a little. No need for all this hassle.
khatack 2 months ago
Comment removed
Race13100 2 months ago
how do yu think you deal 32 to the opponent
oh nevermind i see
chancellorofthedross 2 months ago
how do yu think you deal 32 to the opponent
chancellorofthedross 2 months ago
@chancellorofthedross
4 Disciples * 8 dead artifacts = 32 freaking zeroturn damage
xD
RealBenda 2 months ago
Absolutely brilliant.
AstonishingAce 2 months ago
How do you get out the Disciples without any Black Mana?
rooster5man 2 months ago
@rooster5man When the Protean Hulk's death trigger activates, it makes him search his deck for any number of creatures whose total converted mana cost is 6 or less and put them into play. He grabs 12 creatures: 4 Shifting Wall, 4 Phyrexian Marauder which each have 0 converted mana cost (X = 0 in the library) and 4 Disciples of the Vault. They all enter play at the same time and he doesn't have to pay any mana for any of them, just the two mana for the flash.
DelphinusZero 2 months ago
@DelphinusZero Ah, I get it now, that's awesome. I didn't understand "converted" until a few weeks ago (just began playing), lol.
rooster5man 2 months ago
You do know that both flash and mystical tutor are either restricted/banned cards, right?
Kiwiinthesea 2 months ago
Nice combo.
I had thought of a spell pierce to stop this, but all cards that you play are more than cmc 1 or less than cmc 1.
DBinitiate 3 months ago
I gotta say, that is crazy awesome.
chaosmastermind 3 months ago
leyline of sanctity
ColonelSchafer 3 months ago
you could always use a pact of negation on the leyline of sanctity (turn 0 counterspell lol)
8peregrint8 3 months ago
@8peregrint8 Yes, but unless the guy with pact had 5 mana on his first turn he would lose. Force of will or Foil would work though.
ColonelSchafer 2 months ago
Why use Disciple+Marauder+Wall to combo out, when you can do it for only 8 slots with 2xReveillark, 2xBodyDouble, 2xViscara Seer, 2xMogg Fanatic? Protean Hulk gets BD and VS; BD copies PH; VS sacs it, and it goes search RL and MF; MF deals 1 damage, and VS sacs RL, which brings back MF and BD (as a copy of RL); MF deals 1 again, VS sacs BD, which brings back MF and itself! repeat for infinite damage!
I know it's much more complicated, but you use lesser slots to fit in 4xGitaxian Probe :)
Kakalakken 3 months ago
Leyline of Sanctity?
frenzy112 3 months ago
I know a way to play Emrakul on turn 2 with haste. Although it involves sacrificing 18 of ur life. But doesnt matter. You'll attack with haste, whipe theyr field, deal 15 damage, and u get another turn to do the same. God forbid they pull a lightning bolt though,
zNEKOMARUz 4 months ago
@zNEKOMARUz channel emrakul always fun
spong9bob 3 months ago
crazy combo
kyo120 4 months ago
this deck is banned in legacy and it is called the Flash Hulk. This is a real deck and during the time this deck is legal in legacy it is regarded as the best combo deck and after winning the protour, this deck was immediately banned
izeath69 4 months ago 26
Ok how do you play flash?? Gemstone caverns adds one mana and you need two.
lovinmyliabear 4 months ago
@lovinmyliabear
Exile either of the Spirit Guides from your hand (to add a G or R mana) and tap the Caverns for blue... -___- read next time
sadams5993 4 months ago
Comment removed
sharman777 3 months ago
@lovinmyliabear he removes the guides to add 2 more mana to his mana pool
MViLe 3 months ago
Mindbreak trap :D (PS: You do start off with gemstone mines and any Leylines on the field, but you can only activate abilities in the upkeep, 1st main phase, before attackers declared, after attackers declared, before blockers declared, after blockers declared, before combat damage, after combat damage, 2nd main phase. The game already started by the time somebody could start this.)
101arg101 4 months ago
wow
darkminer14 4 months ago
Lotus Petal is unrestricted?
Plus you must be very lucky not to mulligan...
Plus check this out: play Black Lotus, sac for 3 green, play red land, tap for red mana, play Channel for 19 life to colorless mana, Blaze for 20 he's dead. And you have a misdirection or force of will or something in your hand, just in case...
If i remember the Disciple of the Vault is banned. For a good reason ;)
The second in the world championship strategy was based on myrs and Disciples
ShadowDreadblade 4 months ago
@ShadowDreadblade Disciple of the vault is only banned in Mirrodin block constructed. Channel, Black Lotus and flash are restricted in vintage and banned in every other sanctioned format. The deck's only playable casually, but it's still a pretty neat idea. If you really want to win turn one, two-land charbelcher and ANT both have pretty good tracks records and are both legal in Legacy.
Ellanion 4 months ago
"Whenever an artifact is put into a graveyard from play, you may have target opponent lose 1 life." It does not read, "Whenever an artifact is put into a graveyard from play, you may have Disciple of the Vault deal 1 damage to target player." Unless I've been playing wrong all these years, 4 of these in play at once does not allow you to do 4 damage per artifact. The effect of the card has a global effect, so having 4 of these is the same as 1, as 1 artifact into a graveyard is 1 loss of life.
spectois 5 months ago
@spectois You've been playing wrong, hate to say. If you have four separate cards with the same effect like that, you do 4 damage.
MrSwiftyNinja 5 months ago
@MrSwiftyNinja So each cards ability activates when the affect takes place then, eh? So a card such as Norn's Annex, how should this work? If 2 are in play, is it (Phyrexian White) per artifact, so 2, or the effect only works once per attacking creature, even though 2 are in play?
spectois 5 months ago
@spectois Ther's a reason that card is banned in M2012 set lol. If you have two of those, you'd have to pay 4 life (or 2 white mana) to attack you or a planeswalker. You wouldn't be able to use that card in a tourny though. Another example would be Mirrorworks. If you have two, you have to pay 4 mana for both to take effect, but both can take effect.
MrSwiftyNinja 5 months ago
@MrSwiftyNinja ah ok, so each card's ability does trigger no matter the card. That makes sense. although, unless i misread your statement, Norn's Annex is legal in standard.
spectois 5 months ago
@spectois Is it? I saw it was in the New Phyrexia set, so I assumed it wasn't legal in M12 standard. I don't think it is, but it might be. You'd have to double check before you put that in a tourny deck lol. If you're playing with friends, that's fine of course lol.
MrSwiftyNinja 5 months ago
@MrSwiftyNinja yea, i mostly do just play with friends, but lately we have been trying to stick to standard - legal decks, as throwing in old cards makes for too many <5 turn wins, consistantly (being that you can combo from anything). and yea, according to the Gatherer, it is legal in standard.
spectois 5 months ago
@spectois Cool. I might put that in one of my decks now lol. It's a shame there isn't a way to play online, or I'd definitely love to play against you. Maybe in the future lol. If you ever wanna talk Magic, feel free to hit me up, I'll give you some of the strategies I like to use. =3
MrSwiftyNinja 5 months ago
@MrSwiftyNinja yea, absolutely. there is magic online, but i dont get it. (although i am thinking about starting up an account). with games im going to get coming out soon, im not sure how much time i would spend on it / get my moneys worth.
spectois 5 months ago
@MrSwiftyNinja You know that standard isn't just the latest block or core set don't you? At the moment, standard comprises Zendikar, Worldwake, Rise of the Eldrazi, Magic 2011, Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin Besieged, New Phyrexia and Magic 2012. On 30th Sept when Innistrad is released, Zendikar block and Magic 2011 will cycle out of standard.
Only two cards are currently banned, and Norn's annex is not one of them. To be honest it is not really a great card and doesn't see tournament play.
EternalQuestion 4 months ago
@spectois You've been playing wrong man. The effect means that for each artifact that dies, you can have an opponent loose 1 life, there's 4 Disciples with 8 artifacts so it does 32 damage.
AbRockster 5 months ago
isnt flash banned? and its legacy so 47% chance they have a force of will in hand
imaqtlolz 5 months ago
I don't care when this video was posted because four years ago the rules were exactly the same. The only rule change that was made in the last four years was a combat rule. Before that was the rule change in like 1995 dealing with the banishment of mana burn because they realized it was kind of a stupid idea. Not exactly game changing.
semuke01 5 months ago
Btw...this deck doesn't work. The gemstone caverns idea was good but the cards you discard can only be discarded by their own effects to activate that trigger. If you discard them with gemstone caverns it only discards the card, doesn't trigger the ability. Now if they were like obstinate baloth and said "If a spell or ability makes you discard this card, activate this effect" Then it would be legit but until then, L2P Magic son.
semuke01 5 months ago
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inuchan887 5 months ago
@semuke01 Did you read the annotation? He said in addition to the card you discard with Gemstone Caverns.
grimshado42 5 months ago
@semuke01 Considering he did all of this work with the many different sets of magic throughout the years, I would say he can play magic.
deathpuppet16 5 months ago
so what if you have to go first? then what?
reddrhane 5 months ago
Oh, sorry, didnt see that. My bad.
LipsOfADeadGirl 5 months ago
gl having that hand
SolidSoul40373 5 months ago
Another way to win on turn 0. Find a card in opponents deck and tear it in half. Their deck no longer matches their decklist and they loose.
HouseofGlassMusic 5 months ago
@HouseofGlassMusic HAHA xD
MrSigge1 5 months ago
*have
LipsOfADeadGirl 5 months ago
You cant do that. It says if you a luck counter on it, you tap it for any color of mana instead of just a colorless, not both. Therefore, you couldnt cast flash.
LipsOfADeadGirl 5 months ago
@LipsOfADeadGirl Actually discarding the elvish spirit guid or simian spirit guide gives you one mana, in addtion to the one blue mana you had from your land. So you actually have 2 mana
sharkruler4 5 months ago
nice
mtgprodu2244CTIONS 5 months ago
One word: Art.
Wububub 6 months ago
too bad flash is banned in legacy and restricted in vintage
imaqtlolz 6 months ago
2900 card lot
cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120753330852&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT#ht_500wt_1413
awdtalon21 6 months ago
Whooah, wait..
Official rules say he may have 4 of every card in his deck (with lands as the only exception) - Even legendary.
The legend rule is that you may only have 1 legend card with the same name in-game(!)
So he may have 4 in his deck, which gives him better odds for drawing it at turn 0.
Anyhow, it should work as he needs only three cards for pulling this of.
Nice work, eventhough it kinda crashes the idea of the fight ;)
NotedAngellover 6 months ago
Also, the first opportunity you have to play anything other than leylines or gemstone caverns is during their first upkeep. Spells cannot be played during the untap step because no one receives priority then, so it is impossible to do anything until the first upkeep step. And because your opponent receives priority before you during each of their steps, they could play any zero-cost instants before you can even begin this combo. Your combo is awesome, but not foolproof.
craigwildey 6 months ago 24
@BionicKing and @jedi1josh There is no such thing as turn zero. You are playing during your opponent's turn one. This is not your "turn zero" because it is not your turn. Saying "turn zero" implies you are playing before your opponent's first turn, which is impossible, and therefore misleading.
craigwildey 6 months ago
how is that 32 damage? i dont understand. wouldnt it only be 8?
WTFuneral 6 months ago
@WTFuneral It's 8 damage for each disciple of the vault in play. 4 disciples x 8 walls = 32 ability triggers. Also note that this is loss of life and not direct damage, so even if it were turn 2 or more, it can't be prevented. there is a flaw in the strategy, however. It requires you to have an ideal hand and it only plays cards from the library. If you have some of those cards in hand, you could miss out on some damage. Good thing there's 12 life in wiggle room there. :)
Pyraquis 6 months ago
@WTFuneral There are 4 Disciples on the board, and each one would deal 8 damage with their triggers. 4 x 8 = 32 damage. Hulk Flash was a very legit deck for awhile...
exiledjedi 6 months ago
thats one of the most incredible things i have seen with mtg its crazy
MrRyan9876543 6 months ago
are people forgetting that Flash is restricted in Vintage?
JohnWLennon1980 6 months ago
@JohnWLennon1980 lol that entire deck would be screwed in vintage half of the deck would have to be put into side bored, that is cute though i'll give it that, there are two blue cards that would rape that deck anyway because they are turn zero counter spells.
ShadowLordD1 6 months ago
This is all very simple to explain, Gemstone cavern can only be played if you are not going first. You will never receive priority to cast a spell until The other player either casts a spell or passes through a phase. No one get priority until after the upkeep unless there are already cards requiring action during upkeep.
InformerOutsider 6 months ago
I'm thinking of making a pretty cool "win on turn twenty" video. It's pretty complicated.
SandBarAndYou 6 months ago 37
@SandBarAndYou in other words you're thinking of being really sad and pathetic...
romanianskill 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you can only tap gemstone for one colorless. you cant just choose what color. right?
ConradHank 6 months ago
you can only tap gemstone for one colorless. you cant just choose what color.
ConradHank 6 months ago
@ConradHank If Gemstone has a luck counter on it it counts as ANY mana colour. Read the card.
AfroandBlondy 6 months ago
Bonds of agony is better. maybe not turn one, but turn two if you have something with haste.
aebarclay 6 months ago
<_< so many things r done wrong
SolidSoul40373 6 months ago
I know this is an old video, but actually, though still turn 0 because you haven't taken a turn, you CANNOT win before your opponent's upkeep step. This is because there is no window to cast spells or play abilities until the upkeep. You can do nothing before this except with a card such as howling mines, which won't come out turn 0. Yes, you can start with permanents on the battlefield, but during the game you cannot cast spells until the first upkeep.
hayashidarkstar 6 months ago
@hayashidarkstar Turn 1 isn't technicly completed yet when you win the game so hence, you won before turn 1, AKA turn 0.
BionicKing 6 months ago
@BionicKing I never contradicted that. You haven't taken a turn, so it's turn zero. However, the video claims to be doing things other than gemstone caverns before the upkeep step, which isn't possible.
hayashidarkstar 6 months ago
k just gotta say one thing. thats awesome. k two things...you are a good man for choosing the music you chose.
Tolteckin 6 months ago
Flash is restricted to one.
Try4se 6 months ago
@Try4se He only needs one flash for the combo, but yes, he cannot have 4 in the deck.
craigwildey 6 months ago
I just caught on...NICE!!!!
Gritterdone 6 months ago
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Gritterdone 6 months ago
yeah, making a first-turn win deck that isnt tournament legal is effortless. example: 30 black lotus, 20 ancestral recall, 10 brain freeze. wins first turn every time no matter the hand, the only way you can possibly lose is if you dont draw at least one black lotus or one ancestral recall, in any of your mulligans!
lXBlackWolfXl 6 months ago
Best hand you can play is the right hand of God (Acts 7:55-56, Revelation 3:20-21).
That's legendary.
ImmortalinHim77 6 months ago
Incredibly circumstancal on you getting one exact hand.
kreg92 7 months ago
@Grimoi Often times combo players create deck themes like these to play in solitaire. There are also casual decks that are fun for groups of players. Read into it if you'd like.
MicroClicka 7 months ago
this combo wont work and its stupid, if you want a turn zero kill just play first drop a dark depths, vamp hex mage and a kicked goblin bushwacker with 4 lotus pettles, BAM and thats legacy legal
ryanbergmann 7 months ago
@Grimoi Good riddance. I'm one of the strongest advocates against being a dick, but if somebody really quits Magic over losing to Flash Hulk, it's pretty much an inevitability, if not from Flash Hulk,. then because "HTARMOGOYF IS OP!"
TrueRPJesus 7 months ago
How can you put cards into play when your turn has not started yet?
darkstorm331 7 months ago
@darkstorm331 you can't... unless the card says otherwise as it happens with the first card played: Gemstone Caverns
hombredelpartido 7 months ago
@darkstorm331 The first legendary land is played before the start of the game due to it's ability, and the rest of the cards are played as instants(Flash) or abilities triggering(Protean Hulk dying, resulting in getting 12 creatures out).
omgitztommy333 7 months ago
You cant just discard a card!
kill100578 7 months ago
@kill100578 Look at their abilities.
ThatGuyWithGuns 7 months ago
But what if your opponent cast a force of will on your flash? than all was for nothing and you will have none ;)
Great deck Idea btw!!!
Proud2beNL 7 months ago
Someone can just play a foil....
MasterFallenHero 7 months ago
Has anyone actually noticed this deck is illegal in any format but casual? In Legacy Flash is BANNED, and in vintage it's restricted so you can only have on copy in your deck. On top of that, seeing as how you could only make this in a casual format no one would play against you if you are using this deck as it would be no fun for them. Ergo, this is a huge waste of money and a stupid idea as you will never get to use it.
suicidehunter666 7 months ago
@suicidehunter666 Which is the case largely because this deck tore ass through tournaments when it was first discovered.
TrueRPJesus 7 months ago
Figuring out how to make ridiculous decks like this is fun, but playing them isn't. Well, it might be fun the first time you use it on a friend just to get their reaction, then retire it, but constantly playing it is bogus imo. To each his own though.
tehtonym 7 months ago 2
This strategy is what I fondly call "pussy coward." It's cool, though: I guess if you got bullied a lot in school, you probably need some way to make yourself feel good about your life.
DumberEveryTime 7 months ago
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rockdrummerz 8 months ago
@rockdrummerz
idiot...read the hole card befor posting such shit
blizzmen 8 months ago
Nice combo there, only problem is that its extremely unlikely that you'll get all the cards you need in your first hand. =D
lolbeanable 8 months ago
@lolbeanable not at all actually.you need 1 gemstone cavern 1 simian spirit guid OR 1 elvish spirit guide 1 flash and 1 protean hulk OR summoner's pact.that's 4 cards and you have 4 times each in your deck.i would say that you would get the combo once every 10 games or so.of course the other 9 you don't stand a chanse but o well it's a fun deck :) plus you don't need to do it on round 0 even if are on round 2(where have drawn 2 more cards) it's still very unlikely they will be able to counter it
Dialga355 7 months ago
@Dialga355 1/10 is still not good odds, sorry. I think I'll stick to my modular deck. Not as fast, but guarunteed to win if the game goes into round 4. =D
lolbeanable 7 months ago
@lolbeanable yeah but this is not a competitive deck.the point of this deck is to impress people not to win or go to turnaments.it's just for fun xD
Dialga355 7 months ago
@Dialga355 Your opponent wouldnt consider getting their butt kicked on turn 0 "Fun". =/
lolbeanable 7 months ago
@lolbeanable do you not play with friends?when i beat my friend in a rediculous way we just laugh our ass off.in the end the game was ment to be fun it's not all about wining =/
Dialga355 7 months ago
wait.. how does the disciple of the vault do 32 dmg.. you only have 8 artifact creatures
dragonsword343 8 months ago
@dragonsword343
and each time 1 artifact creature dies, since there are four disciples of the vault, it will do 4 damage to the opponent. So 8 artifacts dying, will do 8 x 4 = 32 damage.
typhooni8 8 months ago
Thank goodness for the Legacy banned list. That flash...
LightofLand 8 months ago
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JonnyClouston 8 months ago
@JonnyClouston pls learn magic, or at least read the cards before you write stupid things.. he gets the second mana with elvish/simian spirit guide. and protean hulk puts the chosen cards instantly on to the battlefield, so he doesnt have to pay for the disciples!
MrSlyker 8 months ago
@JonnyClouston you've burned your deck didn't you?....
Grimoi 7 months ago
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corichoelsucio 8 months ago
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corichoelsucio 8 months ago
this deck costs 110 bucks to build
kira3891 8 months ago
stupid. I rather play mahjong and win more money
kira3891 8 months ago
Stopped watching when it said to play something before upkeep. No one has priority before upkeep. No one can play anything until the turn begins. There is no such thing as turn zero.
KungfuSuperhero 8 months ago 2
@KungfuSuperhero agreed.
whoever wrote this doesn't understand magic phases or the oracle text for this.
"No player receives priority during the untap step, meaning that no cards or abilities can be played at that time. During the upkeep and draw steps, however, players can cast instants and activate abilities as normal."
so you can't play anything until "turn 1" begins. in which case, the opponent can still counter e.g. force of will
then they'll know the deck dependencies and counter them
17teacmrocks 8 months ago
I've been beaten on turn zero by a Goblin Charbelcher deck. He had no lands in his deck to the Charbelcher cycled enough to kill me instantly.
Bobbynibbles 8 months ago in playlist magic the gathering
@Grimoi and then he ultimately has a better life because of this experience. He becomes a business tycoon and invests in a series of small companies that earn him upwards of 136 billion dollars.
SuaveDavid 8 months ago
fine as a theoretical exercise but if people want to play this they may as well stay home and play solitaire.
hydra66 8 months ago
this may be possible but why would you want to do this? since I'm assuming this wouldn't be a tournament legal deck you would be using it against random people or your friends and it would just piss them off and make them not want to play. what's the point? this would just cause you to be labeled as the douche who kills on turn zero and would make no one want to play with you
shags2dop3 8 months ago
This is quite possibal in tech terms of turn zero because if the draw is won and you play gemstone caverns, simian and ESG you r just playing off the stack and the stack never lies there for turn one has not come since the interupts r on the stack and no one has really taken a turn for a offical draw. Unless you play with more then 2 ppl every one an draw on the beginning of there turn even the player who wins the mana cut or dice roll.
sb1011666 8 months ago
There is a combo where you can do infinite damage.
Stickbrush 8 months ago
@Stickbrush : There's more than just one of them out there. I have a deck with an infinite dameage combo in it. It really just depends on how creative you are in trying to build a winning deck.
zips39 8 months ago
Stop being losers haha. yes this can happen, i've read about it, maybe you didn't. And of course this takes all the fun from the game, it's not the point that everybody now on plays this deck, but it's still amazing that something lika this is possible in magic. it's a great engine.
joeyxcorvusy 8 months ago
But.. nobody gets priority turn 0.. you can't do it before his upkeep. You must really mean during his upkeep before he gets to draw, which is still t1. There's only two maybe three legit t0 wins.
Katyrzana 8 months ago
@Katyrzana: Yes, but this is one of those legit turn 0 kills, because if you win the draw, then your opponent doesn't get the opportunity to draw. Therefore, this happens before his upkeep, which also comes before his draw phase.
zips39 8 months ago
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eureka7ex 8 months ago
thats epik
HUwarhero1025 8 months ago
Furthermore, I get that this makes a really cool trick, but why would actually try to play this deck? It's not fun for anyone- it's just you showing us all how your deck works, except we call it a game. It's Magic maturbation- you're just playing with yourself, really. I have a friend who has a deck like this- when he wants to play, I just say "Let's play- I concede" over and over until he decides to play a game that interacts with other players.
Don't play this mess, play a real deck.
oddballomega 8 months ago 2
None of this happens "before the opponent's first upkeep" except for the Gemstone Caverns, which happens before the game begins.
After that, everything has to happen when you receive priority at the end of your opponent's upkeep.
oddballomega 8 months ago
Okay, since Mystical Tutor and Flash are restricted, even in Vintage, this deck is about as worthless as the $3 bill that somebody slipped me back in the 60s. Can't win with a deck that you can't freakin play...totally lame.
wagtunes 9 months ago
Where the fuck do you get 4 black mana? I'm just saying that this video is bullshit since he first uses 2 creatures to get one red and one green mana, then the land to get one blue mana, but he never gets 4 black mana, The creature has to be out on the field idiot
MewnFrostFang 9 months ago
@MewnFrostFang He doesn't need 4 black mana, read the hulks ability.
PowrOverwhelming 9 months ago
@Grimoi Boy goes to grammar school.
aenima98 9 months ago
no lmbanar: because you don't have any land...
Mucmucho 9 months ago
Just a Fog to piss that guy of =D