Brother, this is great. I can already see the women attacking you. I am a Christian woman and I fully agree with at least the first 3 minutes that i had time to watch. Just because a man is not stepping up and filling the role, does not make it right for us to step up and fill the role. This starts to undermine man's authority as the spiritual head. God ordained. Simple as that. And he clearly states that women do have roles in the ministry, but not as a pastor of a church.
@vanessainphilly I am truly, truly honored and amazed by your utter sincerity, bravery, and honesty coming from you as a woman. Praise God. I'm so thankful to God that there are women such as yourself that are HUMBLE enough to receive this tough message. I'm glad that you're not offended by the things being said in the video. Thank you, again, and may God bless you for your humility!
When the Apostle Paul says he does not want a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man he is speaking in the context of church. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman being in authority over a man in any other situation. There is nothing wrong with that, and as far as the church goes, the authority structure is set up that the male is to be in the position of spiritual authority, and women should not teach men.
@anotheronem "As for the rest of your stuff? Sorry to inform you, you are skipping out parts of the bible. Rm 16 is very clear allowing women leading in churches."
Don't be sorry for informing me instead be sorry for lying about and twisting what Romans 16 actually says and for rejecting 1 Timothy 2:11-15 as well as other books of the Bible that do not agree with what you have accepted from your father satan.
@anotheronem "Jesus entrusted Mary Magadelene to be the first gospel preacher as evidenced by him telling her to tell the others of her witnessing his resurrected form."
As you well know that has nothing to do with the issue at hand because every one who preached the gospel was not a pastor. This is a clear example of your deceit or ignorance or both.
Words that were spoken by Paul, was truly stated by him, beczu he did say them, but every thing is not a statement of truth. I have been blocked by many men, becuz they know that I'm speaking the truth. It's heard for them to acccept it from me. They are young men, younger then my son of 37, and they speak to me without respect as a women of God. And just becuz the Word of God is finished it doesn't mean God quit talking to us. If God tells me to quit preaching I will, so far I haven't heard it.
And the girls and women you showed on this video they were not childern of God. They were childern of the devil. It's like all men put women whether saved or not saved under the heading of Jezebel. This women was worse then herself. Then Paul saids, I speak this as a man, So when Paul wrote 1 Tim 2:12 (BUT I WOULD THAT WOMEN) Paul didn't say God said that. Men should study to show themselves approved of God and man. Rightly dividing the his word. Rightly divide the Word sir, not your penis.
It seems no man tells the congregation the answer Paul gave to that church. 36 What? Came the Word of God out from you? Or Came it to you only? Paul didn't say these words, he wrote these saying. 1 Corin 7:1 Now concerning the things you (WROTE ME OF). This was a letter to Paul, and he gave the answer to the letter that was written. 6 (BUT I SPEAK THIS BY PERMISSION AND NOT OF COMMANDMENT) 12 (BUT TO THE REST SPEAK I NOT THE LORD). Many times Paul would say things which was not given by God.
I have got to stop this right now, all of this should be put into perspective, it's said that Deborah was the wife of one husband, Lapodoth. So what is the difference? If a man is the husband of one wife or the wife is the wife of one man? Judges 4:4-5 she was also a military leader as well. And she brought the word of God to over 40 thousand men and women. And you may not know this Paul didn't write that letter. It was a letter sent to Paul, and he answered it. No man tells the answer.
I am a woman, and I know that I HAVE NO PLACE IN THE PULPIT. Any woman who puts herself in a position of authority in church is in rebellion and needs to repent. Trust in Christ for forgiveness!
Romans 16 CLEARLY states Phoebe is a MINISTER (Deacon). That Junia is an APOSTLE, that Lydia, Priscilla were leaders right alongside the men. Rm 16 is PAUL addressing a ROOM full of church leaders and commending them.
Paul also TELLS the WHOLE group present to ASSIST Phoebe. Not the other way around. That means PHOEBE was a more knowledgable and devout person than average and the others are to follow her lead.
A MOTHER CAN NOT FATHER NOONE. gOD NEVER COMMANDED A WOMAN TO RULE MAN, A HUSBAND OR ANOTHER WOMAN'S HUSBAND. GOD NEVER COMMANDED IT. and JESUS DID NOT CONDONE IT.
JESUS NEVER COMMANDED MEN to RULE WOMEN either. You will NOT find JESUS say any such thing for a man or woman to LORD over each other.
That notion is a MAN made rule to rule autocratically over women without JESUS sanction.
JESUS said, NO more adultery, which also meant NO more marriage to many women. And the list goes on. JESUS did NOT deny women and embraced women throughout his ministry in myriad of ways.
@Mectrixctic Hey, that's your opinion. What does your opinion have anything to do with the truth? Name calling doesn't prove anything except that you don't have a logical or academic means to rebut the position.
@Mectrixctic 1)The video provides a VERY common and commonly regurgitated position, and one that I’ve challenge MANY people on. I believe that this type of argumentation is called a ‘genetic fallacy’. You’re coming to a conclusion that cannot be substantiated by the text in and of itself by going OUTSIDE of the material and into other notions, assertions, etc. that are not affiliated. There is no contextual or grammatical evidence IN THE BIBLE itself that gives indication of this.....
@Mectrixctic 2)You wanna call me and the apostle Paul 'sexist women haters'? By all means, please have at it. What in the world do you think you're silly insults to me are gonna do? The apostle Paul was martyred for preaching Christ. Do you honestly think your deliberate misunderstanding of the bible and futile name calling is going to amount to anything? C',mon, let's be adults here.....
@Mectrixctic 3)Where in the bible does it mention anything about this so called ‘cult’? This is how you know that there are individuals in this world (such as the ones that authored the video) that absolutely hate the word of God and are heavily responsible for the contribution of the constant emasculation of men in this country....
@Mectrixctic 4)Paul is not a woman hater, and men and women having their place IN AN ECCLESIATICAL SETTING is not about importance. It's simply about ORDAINED roles that are DECREED by God. Galatians 3:29 makes it very clear that there is no gender that's more respected in God's eyes but that men and women are equal, but they do NOT have equal roles. If you watched ALL of my videos, you would've seen that, but instead, you're too busy crying over spilled milk when themess aint even that big.
@Mectrixctic 5)Finally, some words of advice; the fact that you IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion that I’m a sexist proves to me GREATLY that you are not a believer in Christ and also that you are not able to hold a logical, academical, or rational discussion. The video stays up and it will continue to stay up until YOU or someone else can provide a powerful and non-emotionally derived position. The next time you wanna refute an argument, get ALL of the facts and know your opponents' position.
O yeah another person who need to sit down and be quiet is Gino Jennings he is a curl man is a brain washing person God Bless His Soul he is gonna need it
WELL if the MAN don't step up to the position or resigns the a women shall do it. my pastor is a powerful pentecostal women of God and i believe with all my might that the Lord ordained her to become the pastor. Paul even affiliated himself with an preacher name Priscilla who was believe to write a book in the bible. If women can teach they should be able to preach and have a church.
@Dudeboy151 "Paul even affiliated himself with an preacher name Priscilla who was believe to write a book in the bible." There is no contextuall evidence that Priscilla was a 'preacher'. She only EXPOUNDED the scriptures to Apollo. That's it. Expounding and pastoral headship are 2 completely different things. There's nothing wrong with women teaching, but pastoral authority to women (particularly over men) is not God ordained., nor scriptural according to scripture.
@Dudeboy151 You are right about Priscilla preaching, a woman can be all a man can be in CHRIST. If you sit under a powerful woman of GOD be blessed by it.
Study Paul also study history, go back to the Greek and Hebrew. Paul was never against women only false doctrine as the case of 1 Timothy. When we don't study we put out false doctrine that holds back the women of GOD in our churches.
@mtlindale When you make assumptions of ppl not studying the hebrew, greek, and the writings of Paul, you really show yourself to be nothing more than arbitrary, and you make it very difficult for ppl to take your assertions seriously. So, please prove that what's said in this video is wrong, THEN maybe you can tell me to study Paul and history.
@vekl 1Cor 14:34-38 People always take this section of scripture wrong, Paul is rebuking the men here. He quotes them in 34-35 then he rebukes in 36-38. 1Timothy deals with false doctrine coming from the women. The women of Ephesus were teaching the pagan doctrines from the Temple of Artemis this is why Paul tells Timothy not to let a woman speak there, they needed to learn sound doctrine. The doctrines of Artemis were superiority of women, dominating the male ect...usurp authority = dominating.
@mtlindale "1Timothy deals with false doctrine coming from the women" This is fine and dandy if you wish to believe that, but you're gonna have to substantiate that position. there's nothing in the context that leads you to believe that. Also, you should watch the entire video and other videos before you try to argue with me. We can ultimately agree to disagree, but I will not submit to eisegetical arguments.....
@mtlindale 2) So my challeneg to you is; sow me where in the context of 1 Timothy that Paul was specifically referriung to the situation that you're asserting.
@vekl To understand what Paul is saying in 1Timothy we must research the city of Ephesus. When we do we find that the Amazons were the founders of the city according to Greek myth, there were also statues of Amazons in the first temple of Artemis. In v.4 neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies. In the Temple of Artemis they taught genealogies of the Amazons, it also was an all woman cult. These are the genealogies Paul speaks of v. 9-10 list some specific sins that were from the cult
@vekl Menstealers, murderers of fathers and mothers, manslayers & whoremongers go along with the cults doctrines & rituals. Paul states these sins then he gives his on testimony of GOD'S grace, Paul also brings up how women should dress it talks of braided hair, gold, pearls and such which is what the Priestess of Artemis would do to lure men for temple rituals. Then Paul tells timothy not to let the women teach why? It tells us in v. 6-7 then he says not to usurp authority over men.
@vekl When Paul says not to usurp authority hes coming against the doctrine of the cult of Artemis. He also brings up order of creation because the cult taught all life came from Eve, Paul states Eve came from Adam and says Eve was deceived and transgressed (as also the women of Ephesus were deceived). Then he says she will be saved in childbearing as long as she continues in the faith, also coming against the doctrine of the cult in which Artemis was to keep the women from dieing in childbirth.
@mtlindale "Paul says not to usurp authority hes coming against the doctrine of the cult of Artemis." I'm sorry but here I would have to disagree with your position. What you're doing here may to some degree may have some validity to it, but you are not going SOLELY by whats revealed in the context alone in the scriptures. You are ASSERTING that theory, when it in and of itself cannot be verified in the scriptures......
@mtlindale 1) I guess we can just agree to disagree, but again, (and I'm asking kindly) please don't assert that the people with whom you disagree with have not done the research. That in my opinion can make you look very arrogant. You must also understand that there are other well respected and godly men who have far more education than yourself that disagree with you.......
@mtlindale 2)You should try to remember 1 Cor. 8:2. Please don't make the Lord humble you in an embarrassing fashion like He's done me becuz of my own arrogance from time to time.
@vekl Yes he does humble the prideful, wasn't trying to be arrogant just stating i have studied this over and over. I used to believe women were not called preach in church except in an all women service, I used these same verses to validate my belief until GOD enlightened me on the subject of women.
@mtlindale Well, if you want to believe that it's ok for women to be pastors over men, thn by all means have at it. Thank God that's it's not an essential.
@mtlindale 2)I'm covinced that what you've done is a very watered down type of eisegesis. There is a difference between getting historical premise and what you're attempting to do with the passage. You also seem to overlook the seeming UNIVERSALITY and TRANSCENDENCE of verse 13 &14. Paul gives a reason that is NOT only pertaining to a specific culture, time, or person but for all the Church, for all time.
@samariababii Well, although you are most definitely speaking out of emotion rather than truth and rationality, you're also welcome to your own opinion. Perhaps before you make such assertions and assumptions, you should check out the ENTIRE video as well as the other videos. You can pray for me if you'd like. But I'm already covered by the blood of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and I'm filled with His Holy Spirit. God bless.
If God calls a woman for something greater. To preach the gospel, to be a pastor. Who are we to say no? I don't remember Jesus or God ever saying no. I understand why woman aren't and why they shouldn't. A man is the leader. But we can't say that it is unbiblical can we? There are times in the bible that talk about men leading the church and how they should do it but does it really say that woman shouldn't? If so please point me to that verse.
@VVAANNEE101 "If God calls a woman for something greater" I certainly agree. IF God calls a woman to be a pastor, then it would be right, simply becuz it was God's will, and God's pl would know that this was of God IF such an instance were to come about. In fact, I made this point in the 3rd video. BUT it is NOT the norm. There is no evidence in the bible that women are normally engaged in ecclesiastical authority over men. I just think it's unbiblical. There is no good argument for it yet.
As Christians we say no when God's word says no and it most certainly does regarding women being in authority over men in the church or the home.
"I timothy 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man, she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve."
Yes we can say that it is unbiblical for a woman to teach or be in authority over men in the church.
@VVAANNEE101 "To preach the gospel, to be a pastor."
Anyone can preach the gospel even children but just as children are not supposed to be in authroity over their parents in the home neither are women supposed to be in authority over men in the home or the church.
Also when God inspired Paul to write to Timothy regarding the criteria for pastors he said "husband" not (wife). If women could be pastors then he would have said "husband of one wife" or (wife of one husband).
Women could not have MORE than one husband. The anonymous writer of 1 Tim is only pointing out the married state - ie ONE wife. Seeing as women could only have one husband, no mention is made of a womans marital numbers. Otherwise the NUMBER ONE would NOT have been used.
@VVAANNEE101 1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife......"
In any even the 1st verse I gave you is a cler and specific restriction against women teaching men or being in authority over them in the church.
If we are going to reject these verses then we might as well reject all others.
Again, did YOU not read what I wrote earlier. Did MEN have MORE than one wife. 1 Tim (which was NOT written by PAUL) is only talking about a bishop must be the husband of ONE wife. It means nothing more.
Do you eat pork, shellfish? Then YOU reject scripture.
@anotheronem "1 Tim (which was NOT written by PAUL) is only talking about a bishop must be the husband of ONE wife. It means nothing more."
You do not know that 1 Timothy was not written by Paul. If he had wrote that women should teach and usurp authority over men then you'd be saying it was written by Paul.
BTW it is a lie that all it addressed was a bishop having one wife. It list other things to look for in candidates for bishops....it seems you reject those as well.
Do you own slaves? Do you eat locusts. Are you taking a vow of poverty or celibacy?
All these notions are in the bible.
Which do YOU pick and choose. For ALL must pick and choose. It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow the bible literally and physically according to each scripture statement.
So YOU reject scripture and accept scripture according to the way you were taught or are learning.
I do not pick and choose......you do. I am free from the law so the choice was already made I do not have to pick and choose between law and grace when I am in Christ.
"For ALL must pick and choose."
Yet another lie from your father. You and others who have not known Christ oick and choose.
@anotheronem "So YOU reject scripture and accept scripture according to the way you were taught or are learning."
satan keeps putting lies in your heart and you keep posting them.
I do not reject scripture PERIOD! I accept all of God's word. Unlike you I understand that trusting in Christ and not the law is not rejecting the law.
@anotheronem "It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow the bible literally and physically according to each scripture statement."
It is impossible for someone like you to understand the Bible with your natural mind. You have proven that you are blind to truth in the Bible.
The Bible's instructions to men and women regarding their roles in the church and home are to be taken literally. The fact that you cannot differentiate between what is to be taken literal and what is not is telling.
As for your slams and insults to me - a Christian! GOD KNOWS and GOD is the judge. Not some man who THINKS he knows peoples souls. I would highly suggest you refrain from such insults and ignorance when in discussions about scripture for you are OUT of line.
You (or others like you) employ that tactic to make others be quiet and subservient, which also means YOU have LOST the argument.
I pray you will find peace over the issue of WOMENS equality in the CHURCH.
@anotheronem "As for your slams and insults to me - a Christian! GOD KNOWS and GOD is the judge. Not some man who THINKS he knows peoples souls."
As for your arrogant rejection of God's word that Jesus taught through the apostles I know and God knows. God chose who should lead the church not some deceived presumptuous woman or man. God's word does not end where you wish it did with the synoptic gospels.
@anotheronem "You (or others like you) employ that tactic to make others be quiet and subservient, which also means YOU have LOST the argument."
You and others like you are proud deceived liars, blind to the truth, thinking you know something when you know nothing.
You and others like you reject scripture that clearly refutes your ignorant ideas and characterize those who accept all of God's words as "emplying tactics".
It is God's word that you argue with not mine in your foolishness.
@Random0832 I think the statement you made shows that you did not watch the entire video. The video is not about women being slient in the church. You really need to take the time to watch and pay close attention to what is being said before you make statements. You don't wanna be deemed as being irrational with your thinking.
@coolwater55 "Women have taken their rightful roles to be preaching and leading a congregation. Men should embrace this renewal. " Really? what passage do you have that clarifies this?
And I and others REFER to CHRISTS authority. NOT a random mans authority. remember books of Timothy, Titus, Ephesians, Colossians are NOT even writtten by Paul.
Jesus did not write the bible, but we can glean sufficient from the synoptic gospels to see that Jesus did not deny women places in the ministry.
Rm 16, Acts 18,21 clarify women as early church leaders in same category as men.
@coolwater55 Well, I disagree. Those passages most certainly do not declare women as pastors or spiritual leaders over men. I've already covered those passages in my 3rd video anyway. But if that's what want to continue to believe, then by all means, have at it. I'm just thankful that it's not an essential. So, if you so desire, continue on going on to your women-lead congregations, and allow me to keep going to my biblically lead congregagtions, and just let bygones be bygones. God bless you.
You are falsely representing Christ if you lead a congregation teaching men usurp authority over women and that women cannot lead a congregation. .
1 Tim is not authored by Paul and has no authority over Christians. Jesus has authority. NOT MEN! or WOMEN! Romans 16 describes CLEARLY that women were in full leadership roles in the Church.
Otherwise revise the biblical dictionary for the TERM apostle.
To say women cannot preach is harmful to Christians. That is on YOUR head.
@coolwater55 "To say women cannot preach is harmful to Christians. That is on YOUR head." This statement here is probably the greatest example of emotionalism on this channel. Coolwater55 has no premise to base this statement on. This proves that he has an axe to grind and does not care about truth but just wants to force people to agree with him.
@coolwater55 I have great brothers in Christ that agree with you on this issue, and I can fellowship with them with no problem, but none of them would come to the point that you have by insulting the integrity of those that disagree with you. For now, i'm going to block you, and I sincerely mean no offense in doing this but, you seem to do nothing but cause discord and seek to win arguments with poeple. If you are truly interested in furthering this discussion, make a video about it.
1. blocking is normally a sign one has lost the argument and wants to write a bit more to look like they "won".
2. To deny women preachers IS HARMFUL - because Jesus never says any such thing. Acts and Romans CLEARLY have women preachers. Anonymous AUTHOR in 1 Tim or Titus is NOT the authority 4. The HARMFUL part: As long as SEX ABUSE & PHYSICAL abuse exist in the CHURCH and christian families - male only leadership has proven many times to be HARMFUL! to women and children.
For we have a dearth of abused young boys in all male clergy areas - and many a punitive male father/husband figure who abuses his power exists to this day. JESUS said to let the little children come and I never saw any scripture where JESUS condones hitting children or denying women.
Jesus said to TEACH, he never said to HIT.
So, block me too if you want, the TRUTH is out, and for YOU to teach otherwise is against the Holy Spirit.
@anotheronem Perhaps I should block you, but you so far don't appear to be as condescending at contentious as coolwater55....unlees you're his sock account. Who knows/ who cares? It doesn't matter. the issue of women pastors is not an essential and it's not worth condemning the true believer of Christ over. Let bygones be bygones.....
@anotheronem you have no authority whatsoever to tell me that I'm against the Holy Spirit since you are not God, neither are you a prophet. So, as I stated to coolwater55; if you so desire, continue on going on to your women-lead congregations, and allow me to keep going to my biblically lead congregagtions. as for me and my house, we will worship the LORD.
In reality if you persist in saying women cannot preach you are not in line with the bible. For the bible contradicts itself on that score.
OR, do MEN contradict themselves?
All the best and prayers and blessings to you.
No one has been contentious here, it is your ego that is bristling that people have proven that Jesus does not restrict women. You made videos to say otherwise, which are incorrect.
@anotheronem Wow. you most certainly said a mouthful. i'm not even sure where to begin. But after looking at your channel, I can see that you have a TREMENDOUS amount of inconsistencies regarding your position on the nature of God. Apparently, you appear to be an extreme feminist and also seem to have a hatred of men. you also seem to make faulty assertions of men regarding the treatment of women in the bible......
@anotheronem ". blocking is normally a sign one has lost the argument and wants to write a bit more to look like they "won". This statement here is just a copout way of trying to get my goat! It's not working. I've made my stance. Said my piece. If you wanna publicly debate over this issue, I'd gladly challenge you. But the videos stay, and you can carry on with your silly ad hominem attacks against my character. It's sad, but carry on.
@anotheronem The fact that you have to continue to attack my character makes it very evident that you're not being led of the Spirit. This is very typical of those who try to argue from emotionalism. Also, there is nothing in scripture that says that women being pastors is blasphemous. It's only not scriptural.There is a difference. so, there's nothing in scripture that says that I MUST believe that women can be pastors, especially since there simply is no text that permits it, anyway.
Just because Christ did not say women can be doctors also does not mean anything. Your reasoning does not make sense.
Jesus did NOT restrict people. He allowed people of all walks of life to be with him and learn, believe. And then told those people to go tell others and learn and believe.
When we believe in JESUS, however, we believe the command to love one another.
@anotheronem The contents on your channel tell me a little bit about why youhold that position, and it seems to me that the only reason you have that position is because you have a very liberal and non-biblical perspective on the entire issue. No offense, but this is a very common trait with people who call themselves catholic. They want to be saved but don't want to submit to the authority of scripture.....
@vekl I am not a practicing Catholic. Believing that they "changed" was what drew me back. But when the "Catechism of the Catholic Doctrine" came out finally in late 1990's it was not so. That was based on the Vatican ll council IN 1965 - Nothing much changed.
I am a free Christian if one terms it and follow CHRIST. One cannot follow the "bible" or "believe in the bible", for the discrepencies are massive.
But following Christ, via the Holy Spirit is the REAL journey. God Bless.
Many protestants are highly misinformed about Catholics btw.
My mother is a protestant, I know many protestants of different denominations and ATTENDED Many varying churches - pentecostal, baptist, United, Methodist, Baha'i (short while) in addition to Catholic.
At age 55, about 20 years as an adult studying or practicing, either or.
No one knows how the Holy Spirit will work, but it was Catholic nun who was the vessel for my conversion to becoming a believing CHRISTIAN!
@anotheronem 2)And you're right. If we are brethren, then we should keep 1 John 4 in our hearts. But if you dare openly condemn another believer in public, then perhaps next time before you do so, you need first to make sure that YOU yourself don't already stink. Make sure that beam is out of your OWN eye before you try to remove the mote out of your brothers eye.
1. I strive for education from all sources, then assimilate in alignment with the Holy Spirit.
2. God is supposed to be nameless and genderless according to first descriptions but all of a sudden god becomes MALE along the way?
3. I watch info about God's nature or other concepts of male or female God? You accuse me of "stinking"? for QUESTIONING ancient male perspective history?
Education is good, it is NOT going to sway me from LOVE of CHRIST.
@anotheronem From this point on, though i will respect you as an intelligent human being, I cannot nor WILL not respect your opinion on this issue. I do not view you as one that is competent enough to fully substantiate any opposing position. Coolwater55 though we disagree, was at least a Christian, that has some resemblence of knowing God and His word. But you ma'am, I don't know what you are, especially by some of those questionable videos you have on your channel.....
I can "substantiate" what actually exists in the bible, versus what JESUS actually says.
I can "substantiate" that we know women birth babies and we know a lot about nature than they did back in biblical times. Which ranges about 6000 years of journey and thought.
I can "substantiate" the abhorrence of men killing innocent women and children in the bible and justifying by saying "god told me to do it". I can still say it is ancient ignorance and wrong.
EVE did NOT cause sin! - ancient men usurped power of the strong female led agrigarian societies who REVERED CREATIVE life of a womans fertility. ALL THE EARTHS CHILDREN, came from EVE, not man. EVE had KNOWLEDGE and that was her UNDOING! Men still hate it when a woman knows more than him,
The eve fable has caused enormous destruction.
LOOK carefully that all JESUS says - Matt, Mark, Luke and John and see that JESUS was the polar opposite of those ancient men. God Bless.
@anotheronem I'm sorry to say but based on some of the videos you have in your favorites, you make it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that you are believer in Christ. You may have knwoledge that He existed, but I'm not convinced that you KNOW Him.
I am a Christian and NOT by my own violition. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit was a total shock to me when I asked God for forgiveness years ago - 1990 at my kitchen table. . Mid freezing winter - a ball of orange powerful glowing light flashing through my window right smack deep into my soul. I was in the middle of a heartfelt PRAYER to ask forgiveness for anything I had done that may have offended Christ, either through ignorance or willfully.
I was balling my eyes out with revelation of what I thought was a good life was not so much so - in the eyes of Christ. I always believed in Jesus, but I had intellectualized the bible prior to that point.
This powerful transformation occurred without me the least bit expecting it. And it was a beautiful charismatic nun who led that prayer.
YOU cannot discern my soul - nor can I discern - your soul or journey with Christ. Or anyone elses for that matter. Only Christ truly knows.
@anotheronem I honestly don't mean to sound judgmental, but you are arguing with me and condemning me earlier about my position on women pastors, while at the same time favoriting questionable videos on your channel that would appear to be contrary to what Christ would agree to. This is why I said what I said.....
"To deny women preachers IS HARMFUL - because Jesus never says any such thing. Acts and Romans CLEARLY have women preachers. Anonymous AUTHOR in 1 Tim or Titus is NOT the authority 4. The HARMFUL part: As long as SEX ABUSE & PHYSICAL abuse exist in the CHURCH and christian families - male only leadership has proven many times to be HARMFUL! to women and children."
Look at the broader picture and you will see I condemn the "construct" of all male clergy and the harms that perpetuate from that . I also state that there are many good male clergy, but that does NOT make up for the harms perpetuated from the all male cast for millenium - where women do not have input or a say or power over their own lives.
Women in positions of authority would help other women see they do NOT have to put up with harms in the name of God.
So, in being FRANK about the real harms that perpetuate to this day - we must address all aspects of the social construct of church environments or what is being taught and by whom.
The problem: boys, girls and women being ABUSED either physically or sexually or emotionally, in the name of God.
To the tune of about 12% sex abuse in the churches cross the board with denominations.
That does NOT include the women who are restricted by husbands from working or even driving at times.
You refused to respond to the reality of these harms or to find a solution that would stop these harms. Instead you say I insult you?
What kind of response is that to the sex abuse of a child? That is reality.
Women are forced to submit under the "thumb" of a man as head of household whether he is a GOOD leader or NOT?
Men and women should CO-LEAD on pulpits with boards of 6 men and 6 women overseeing THEIR conduct! If you see a problem with that solution, let us discuss it.
@anotheronem You see what I mean? This is exactly why I know that (no offense) that you do not know the scriptures as well as you try to present yourself to be. You have not stated one passage in scripture that supports your position. Instead, you went off to this other issue about abuse (which is wrong), but it is TOTALLY irrelevant, and has nothing to do with women not being appointed as pastors. This type of argumentation is called 'red herring'.....
Jesus ministry does not see him restricting women. The problem is that all male clergy CANNOT and DOES NOT represent HALF their congregation in a proper manner for the most part.
And the abuse that lies underneath is NOT cauterized due to that power of men only it perpetuates with each generation.
How are you handling the abuse problems? in your church or congregation? Giving men all power and authority over women is part of the problem.
ABUSE has everything to do with WOMEN not being allowed to be in control of her own life or in a position to be on equal footing with her husband or with congregation or with the pastor.
Abuse It is NOT the womans or childs fault. It is the FACT that men are GIVEN power over a woman, where she should have SOLE say over her own life. And be able to protect her children.
And who is NOT emotional over a childs life being destroyed by being sexually abused? Are you kidding me?
@anotheronem You also (again) seem to be incapable of reasoning without resorting to emotion. Yes, it's wrong that women and children are treated badly in this world, but that has NOTHING to do with God's word. God's word does not order men to act cruel towards women. In fact, it orders the complete opposite. I hope that you can see that for yourself, and not let the your 'clergy' tell you what it says. Read it for yourself.
Men as the ONLY leader and say in a church or home, can easily slip into overdomineering, not to mention abuse.
Men are "supposed" to understand their role. But they had their chance for 2000 years and it is NOT working. Scripture has contradictions. And any man who want to overexert control over his wife or family can easily do so with justifying it in scripture.
1. I have READ the bible FRONT to BACK (TWICE - THOROUGHLY) every single word and UNDERSTOOD fully the context and actions of men in jewish wanderings of discovering nature vs. God.
2. I have read the NT 100's of times.
3. I KNOW how to read history and compare relative literature or historical writings.
4. Even at that, those writings are all male biased. Women did not get to write "their story or view".
6. I have many more books on spiritual writings, saints, or writings on doctrine etc. In addition to reading dearth of volumes on the subject or part of bible study groups.
7. I always see people make that assumption who get stumped. So not sure why you think you know my life or how many times I read the bible. Because I do not litter the page with scripture does not mean I don't KNOW what exists in the bible.
Written by ancient bronze age men at times, for ancient men, about ancient male wanderings and understandings of nature, life experience and God. Written from an ancient male perspective too, with ancient writing materials, over the course of 6000 years worth of stories (oral tradition) to the NT, which is written by ancient men still, about their experience of God.
They had ancient ideas about what was right, wrong, ancient myth, versus reality. ie men living to age 900 or describing pillars of salt in 1000's of miles of salt works in the ancient lands.
They were trying to figure out life, what made things go wrong or right and afterlife.
Men considered that women were lawful property value along with oxen.
re: 10 commandments is about male property or edicts. Women are property, so not considered.
Lot had no problems throwing his daughters out to be raped to protect male guests.
Men had many wives. Solomon apparently had 700 wives and 300 concubines and was extremely wealthy? how did he get that way? seems avarice, murder, greed and incest, carnal extremes, were amoung his qualities of endurance. Yet men are "reverring him"? for perpetuity in scripture.
Men raped and killed innocent women and children, in the name of God, even Moses did this.
Then after about 2000 years of this behaviour Jesus came to knock some sense into those men with words of love, healing, peace, joy, and getting rid of notions of:
avarice,
sexual sins,
gluttony,
do not kill, really MEANT that term "literally" for JESUS. No exceptions.
do not commit adultery was for MEN now too. They could not longer have many wives.
Jesus said the poor and low fringe people in society were just as WORTHY as the kings, queens and so forth.
Wandering jewish people trying to learn about life, death and afterlife and they did NOT really do a good job of learning in a timely fashion. They were similar to ALL other societies on earth in some respects. Mixing up myth with nature with God.
Then from darkness of that living way - into the light of Christ.
The LIGHT of CHRIST who can shine within all brought hope and light - but to ALL not just the jewish or rich, lording men.
But they were NOT similar to the female led agrigarian PEACEFUL societies that many of the men overthrew.
The women were the priestesses and honoured as bearers of life. The women discovered how to plant and make stable communities.
Now of course men were involved too.
But... women were leaders in ancient times.
God of the bible was Jealous of the female reverence of some societies. For if God is all powerful and mighty, there would never be a need to be "jealous".
So, I and others have "logically and horrifically" observed that the bible is a dangerous book, if not read properly or understood.
If one, however, refers to the bible as a story of those peoples from darkness to the light of Christ and that only CHRISTS words, actions and notions are to be "considered" a way to live, then one can grasp what Jesus came for.
But to wrap all the OT and then the cultural perpetuated notions of St. Paul into the mix, confusion and many problems will ensue.
@anotheronem I really don't know what else to say to you, except that you appear to be incapable of validating your position on the issue of women not being appointed as pastors. If this is the best that you can do, then there really is no more use in continuing. You are not resorting to scripture but emotion. i won't block you, but i am done talking, unless you want to set up a friendly discussion via Skype. I'll be up for that.
I did offer scripture that shows women as early deacons (phoebe) , apostle (Junia) Rm 16
JESUS never made any proclamation against women preaching or being "pastors".
Instead, Jesus - commends/commands a Woman - Mary Magdalene to be the first "preacher" as witness from Jesus own mouth to go and tell the others of his Resurrection.
That means she is the gospel messenger of the largest kind and the first preacher. Not that it makes her "better, but it does define her role.
Tell me where my comments were "emotional" and not fact.
I did NOT relay them "emotionally", but as FACTS. Other than the description of the OT men, which is all TRUE.
Your head is in the sand over this one, and I can't change that. Only You can become aware of what I am referring to. It is FACT that a certain percentage of women and children being abused by some clergy or husbands/fathers. Fact that so called "christian led homes" have domestic violence.
So, you refuse to acknowledge the scriptures that exist regarding women as leading in Church ministries in the bible. Instead you focus on isolated scripture that denies women those rights.
Gal 3:28 also says, no more male, female, slave, master.
The Paul's Contradiction to tell women to be silent - (although disagreement about that interpretation exists) is USED against women.
Women have been "harmed" by those restrictions of abuse of scripture and we say it should be stopped.
I quoted plenty of scripture, so why create a false impression as those comments pass the pages? Scripture - or JESUS in this case does not deny women. Only MEN deny women.
@anotheronem No, ma'am. you have not. And even if you did, you did not provide a consistent exegesis of the passage in order to support your position. Not that there is any way for you to do so anyhow.
Romans 16. Anyone can read it and know that women were considered church leaders along with men. Not EXTRA explanation required. You refuse to see it.
I will take leave of you now. A 5th grader can read that passage and know.
May God Bless you. My work is done. It is on you to ignore what Jesus says and to recognize problems with all male clergy now.
@anotheronem Thats an absolute failure to PROPERLY exegete scripture, but a good way to twist it in order to make it appease your liking. I'm sorry but you failed in this area, ma'am.
One can enhance that understanding with historial references of peoples of that time frame. Or comparing to other scripture: Jesus does not deny women or restict them.
Phoebe is a deacon, Junia is an apostle. Deborah was a judge, ergo religious leader, Priscilla and Lydia leaders of the early churches. Prophetesses ARE pastors - same as prophets. OTHERWISE they would NOT speak and NO one would listen to their "words" of gods message.
I did not twist anything. I defy anyone to read those passages and they can see.
It says what it says.
I am not forcing you to believe anything. Jesus already set it out. It is rightful for women to preach, and you deny women this right.
You and others refuse to respond to sex and physical abuse that exist to this day in Church and christian homes. . So you fault me - instead of addressing that very critical problem. That is a failure on your part.
You are subverting responding to critical points, by an attack on my knowledge base.
People can read what I wrote. Unfortunately you either don't understand, or you refuse to acknowledge the problems in the church with all male clergy.
If you don't see women preaching as blasphemy, then what holds you back. Christ did not restrict women and women were church leaders in biblical times. Ego? pride? or - you will not be able to make a woman subservient to you? Just wondering.
@anotheronem 2)Personally, I think it's real sad that you not only are unable to properly and HONESTLY exegete the passages you bring up (which I already addressed in video 3), but you also continue to constantly go to issues that are not at all relevant to what is actually written in the scriptures regarding this issue. THIS is a serious problem, and personally, I don't find it as a grounds to win ANY debate on this issue from an academic or even rational standpoint......
@anotheronem 3)Again, we're not going to get very far here in the comments section. If you want to argue your point, then fine. Doesn't mean that it's grammatically or biblically correct, and you're not going to change what's already and have always been written in scripture, neither will you change the minds of those that agree with ppl such as myself. But let's just assume that this is NOT an issue that is salvific. Women pastors will not see hell becuz they are pastors.....
Your personal interpretation of scripture has left huge holes. You cannot explain away the dichotomy of allowing women leaders and then SOME LONE random men NOT allowing it.
And ABUSE exists with MEN who think they own women and many Christian men do this.
Not all men, but enough men in the church abuse that authority. So as far as CHRISTS commands go, hurting the little ones or others is AGAINST HIM. If you persist, therefore, you will be against Christ in that regard.
@anotheronem 4)...I think that they're just in biblical error. So let bygones be bygones. You made your statement, and you failed to convince me and many others. And I admit the same of myself. Have a nice day.
It is good I don't have to convince you. Majority of Protestant Christians believe that there is no problem with female pastors and welcome them with open arms.
That is about 1 billion - with 50% female congregation.
The bible does say women can be church leaders. - CLEARLY so.
Men will find obscure ancient cultural passages that contradict. But because it does say women can, it stands.
You are in a minority. Persist with ancient ideals, it does not really do good.
@anotheronem "The bible does say women can be church leaders. - CLEARLY so."
How many women apostles or bishops are in the NT?
I can show where the NT names men who were apostles and bishops.
If you can't provide scripture naming any women apostles or bishops and yet you deny that there is no distinction made by God in those offices then you are not being honest with yourself.
That is what I notice about what you post; NOT ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE CITING A WOMAN APOSTLE OR BISHOP!
@ttsqas The stem of the word apostle means "to send out" Mark and Luke's gospels, Jesus chooses twelve from his band of disciples and calls them his apostles.
Matthew and John does not employ the word "apostle".
In synoptic works it is the edict to have the same notions in each gospel to make the "story" true.
Find ME where JESUS specifically says that in order to lead a church OR to be a disciple and lead others to Christ - that one MUST be a bishop or apostle.
@anotheronem "Find ME where JESUS specifically says that in order to lead a church OR to be a disciple and lead others to Christ - that one MUST be a bishop or apostle."
That is very foolish question. The fact is as you well know that the apostles were the leaders of the entire church whom Jesus placed there. If you do not accept that which is clearly evident in scripture then you are simply rejecting the truth. PERIOD!
Find ME where JESUS specifically says that in order to LEAD a CHURCH or be a disciple to lead others to his salvation - that they MUST be a bishop or apostle.
If he only provided "one time spirit breathing" on the 12 "apostles" then NO one else can be a sanctioned church leader. Either JESUS sent those 12 to bring MORE to Christ, so those people in TURN can bring more to CHRIST or NOT. And the PENTECOST there were MEN and WOMEN who received the HOLY SPIRIT.
@anotheronem "In synoptic works it is the edict to have the same notions in each gospel to make the "story" true."
Several NT books other than the Gospels call the apostles who were all men apostles. Also only someone with a wicked heart would suggest that it is not true that the apostles were the leaders of the church and that Jesus placed them there.
Brother, this is great. I can already see the women attacking you. I am a Christian woman and I fully agree with at least the first 3 minutes that i had time to watch. Just because a man is not stepping up and filling the role, does not make it right for us to step up and fill the role. This starts to undermine man's authority as the spiritual head. God ordained. Simple as that. And he clearly states that women do have roles in the ministry, but not as a pastor of a church.
vanessainphilly 3 days ago
@vanessainphilly I am truly, truly honored and amazed by your utter sincerity, bravery, and honesty coming from you as a woman. Praise God. I'm so thankful to God that there are women such as yourself that are HUMBLE enough to receive this tough message. I'm glad that you're not offended by the things being said in the video. Thank you, again, and may God bless you for your humility!
vekl 3 days ago
Excellent videos, brother!! Sound exegesis.. Keep em' coming!!
God Bless!!
djvdiddy 1 week ago
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When the Apostle Paul says he does not want a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man he is speaking in the context of church. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a woman being in authority over a man in any other situation. There is nothing wrong with that, and as far as the church goes, the authority structure is set up that the male is to be in the position of spiritual authority, and women should not teach men.
Please read the whole chapter of 1 Tim. 2!! :)
ZachsFullMoon 3 weeks ago
Yeah for gospel female pastors!
anotheronem 1 month ago
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@anotheronem "As for the rest of your stuff? Sorry to inform you, you are skipping out parts of the bible. Rm 16 is very clear allowing women leading in churches."
Don't be sorry for informing me instead be sorry for lying about and twisting what Romans 16 actually says and for rejecting 1 Timothy 2:11-15 as well as other books of the Bible that do not agree with what you have accepted from your father satan.
ttsqas 1 month ago
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ttsqas 1 month ago
@anotheronem "Jesus entrusted Mary Magadelene to be the first gospel preacher as evidenced by him telling her to tell the others of her witnessing his resurrected form."
As you well know that has nothing to do with the issue at hand because every one who preached the gospel was not a pastor. This is a clear example of your deceit or ignorance or both.
ttsqas 1 month ago
Words that were spoken by Paul, was truly stated by him, beczu he did say them, but every thing is not a statement of truth. I have been blocked by many men, becuz they know that I'm speaking the truth. It's heard for them to acccept it from me. They are young men, younger then my son of 37, and they speak to me without respect as a women of God. And just becuz the Word of God is finished it doesn't mean God quit talking to us. If God tells me to quit preaching I will, so far I haven't heard it.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 month ago
And the girls and women you showed on this video they were not childern of God. They were childern of the devil. It's like all men put women whether saved or not saved under the heading of Jezebel. This women was worse then herself. Then Paul saids, I speak this as a man, So when Paul wrote 1 Tim 2:12 (BUT I WOULD THAT WOMEN) Paul didn't say God said that. Men should study to show themselves approved of God and man. Rightly dividing the his word. Rightly divide the Word sir, not your penis.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 month ago
It seems no man tells the congregation the answer Paul gave to that church. 36 What? Came the Word of God out from you? Or Came it to you only? Paul didn't say these words, he wrote these saying. 1 Corin 7:1 Now concerning the things you (WROTE ME OF). This was a letter to Paul, and he gave the answer to the letter that was written. 6 (BUT I SPEAK THIS BY PERMISSION AND NOT OF COMMANDMENT) 12 (BUT TO THE REST SPEAK I NOT THE LORD). Many times Paul would say things which was not given by God.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 month ago
I have got to stop this right now, all of this should be put into perspective, it's said that Deborah was the wife of one husband, Lapodoth. So what is the difference? If a man is the husband of one wife or the wife is the wife of one man? Judges 4:4-5 she was also a military leader as well. And she brought the word of God to over 40 thousand men and women. And you may not know this Paul didn't write that letter. It was a letter sent to Paul, and he answered it. No man tells the answer.
MsBREATHOFLIFE 1 month ago
I am a woman, and I know that I HAVE NO PLACE IN THE PULPIT. Any woman who puts herself in a position of authority in church is in rebellion and needs to repent. Trust in Christ for forgiveness!
Floatie114 2 months ago
Romans 16 CLEARLY states Phoebe is a MINISTER (Deacon). That Junia is an APOSTLE, that Lydia, Priscilla were leaders right alongside the men. Rm 16 is PAUL addressing a ROOM full of church leaders and commending them.
Paul also TELLS the WHOLE group present to ASSIST Phoebe. Not the other way around. That means PHOEBE was a more knowledgable and devout person than average and the others are to follow her lead.
anotheronem 2 months ago
A MOTHER CAN NOT FATHER NOONE. gOD NEVER COMMANDED A WOMAN TO RULE MAN, A HUSBAND OR ANOTHER WOMAN'S HUSBAND. GOD NEVER COMMANDED IT. and JESUS DID NOT CONDONE IT.
mrjohnson2489 3 months ago
@mrjohnson2489
JESUS NEVER COMMANDED MEN to RULE WOMEN either. You will NOT find JESUS say any such thing for a man or woman to LORD over each other.
That notion is a MAN made rule to rule autocratically over women without JESUS sanction.
JESUS said, NO more adultery, which also meant NO more marriage to many women. And the list goes on. JESUS did NOT deny women and embraced women throughout his ministry in myriad of ways.
He showed EQUALITY to women.
anotheronem 2 months ago
women r not suppose to preach
jajuana26 3 months ago
watch?v=l3lILWN_nuc
You fail, sexist.
Mectrixctic 4 months ago
@Mectrixctic Hey, that's your opinion. What does your opinion have anything to do with the truth? Name calling doesn't prove anything except that you don't have a logical or academic means to rebut the position.
vekl 4 months ago
@vekl
No, saying someone can't do something because of gender is sexist. That's fact.
Now are you going to answer Holding's objections, or keep your intrepretation?
Mectrixctic 4 months ago
@Mectrixctic 1)The video provides a VERY common and commonly regurgitated position, and one that I’ve challenge MANY people on. I believe that this type of argumentation is called a ‘genetic fallacy’. You’re coming to a conclusion that cannot be substantiated by the text in and of itself by going OUTSIDE of the material and into other notions, assertions, etc. that are not affiliated. There is no contextual or grammatical evidence IN THE BIBLE itself that gives indication of this.....
vekl 4 months ago
@Mectrixctic 2)You wanna call me and the apostle Paul 'sexist women haters'? By all means, please have at it. What in the world do you think you're silly insults to me are gonna do? The apostle Paul was martyred for preaching Christ. Do you honestly think your deliberate misunderstanding of the bible and futile name calling is going to amount to anything? C',mon, let's be adults here.....
vekl 4 months ago
@Mectrixctic 3)Where in the bible does it mention anything about this so called ‘cult’? This is how you know that there are individuals in this world (such as the ones that authored the video) that absolutely hate the word of God and are heavily responsible for the contribution of the constant emasculation of men in this country....
vekl 4 months ago
@Mectrixctic 4)Paul is not a woman hater, and men and women having their place IN AN ECCLESIATICAL SETTING is not about importance. It's simply about ORDAINED roles that are DECREED by God. Galatians 3:29 makes it very clear that there is no gender that's more respected in God's eyes but that men and women are equal, but they do NOT have equal roles. If you watched ALL of my videos, you would've seen that, but instead, you're too busy crying over spilled milk when themess aint even that big.
vekl 4 months ago
@Mectrixctic 5)Finally, some words of advice; the fact that you IMMEDIATELY jump to the conclusion that I’m a sexist proves to me GREATLY that you are not a believer in Christ and also that you are not able to hold a logical, academical, or rational discussion. The video stays up and it will continue to stay up until YOU or someone else can provide a powerful and non-emotionally derived position. The next time you wanna refute an argument, get ALL of the facts and know your opponents' position.
vekl 4 months ago
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@vekl
"There is no contextual or grammatical evidence IN THE BIBLE"
Spoken like a true fundie
"Where in the bible does it mention anything about this so called ‘cult’?"
Bible doesn't say Tacitus was a good historian. Uh, oh, I guess you don't have evidence for Jesus after all.
"one that authored the video absolutely hate the word of God"
ROTFLMAO!
"NOT have equal roles"
If you deny them roles based on gender, that's called sexism
Mectrixctic 4 months ago
O yeah another person who need to sit down and be quiet is Gino Jennings he is a curl man is a brain washing person God Bless His Soul he is gonna need it
Dudeboy151 4 months ago
@Dudeboy151 Wow! You sure do have a lot of pent up anx in you. Are you a believr in Christ?
vekl 4 months ago
WELL if the MAN don't step up to the position or resigns the a women shall do it. my pastor is a powerful pentecostal women of God and i believe with all my might that the Lord ordained her to become the pastor. Paul even affiliated himself with an preacher name Priscilla who was believe to write a book in the bible. If women can teach they should be able to preach and have a church.
Dudeboy151 4 months ago
@Dudeboy151 "Paul even affiliated himself with an preacher name Priscilla who was believe to write a book in the bible." There is no contextuall evidence that Priscilla was a 'preacher'. She only EXPOUNDED the scriptures to Apollo. That's it. Expounding and pastoral headship are 2 completely different things. There's nothing wrong with women teaching, but pastoral authority to women (particularly over men) is not God ordained., nor scriptural according to scripture.
vekl 4 months ago
@Dudeboy151 You are right about Priscilla preaching, a woman can be all a man can be in CHRIST. If you sit under a powerful woman of GOD be blessed by it.
mtlindale 4 months ago
Women aren't supposed to pastor or have authority over a man.
feminineandfeisty 4 months ago
Study Paul also study history, go back to the Greek and Hebrew. Paul was never against women only false doctrine as the case of 1 Timothy. When we don't study we put out false doctrine that holds back the women of GOD in our churches.
mtlindale 4 months ago
@mtlindale When you make assumptions of ppl not studying the hebrew, greek, and the writings of Paul, you really show yourself to be nothing more than arbitrary, and you make it very difficult for ppl to take your assertions seriously. So, please prove that what's said in this video is wrong, THEN maybe you can tell me to study Paul and history.
vekl 4 months ago
@vekl 1Cor 14:34-38 People always take this section of scripture wrong, Paul is rebuking the men here. He quotes them in 34-35 then he rebukes in 36-38. 1Timothy deals with false doctrine coming from the women. The women of Ephesus were teaching the pagan doctrines from the Temple of Artemis this is why Paul tells Timothy not to let a woman speak there, they needed to learn sound doctrine. The doctrines of Artemis were superiority of women, dominating the male ect...usurp authority = dominating.
mtlindale 4 months ago
@mtlindale "1Timothy deals with false doctrine coming from the women" This is fine and dandy if you wish to believe that, but you're gonna have to substantiate that position. there's nothing in the context that leads you to believe that. Also, you should watch the entire video and other videos before you try to argue with me. We can ultimately agree to disagree, but I will not submit to eisegetical arguments.....
vekl 4 months ago
@mtlindale 2) So my challeneg to you is; sow me where in the context of 1 Timothy that Paul was specifically referriung to the situation that you're asserting.
vekl 4 months ago
@vekl To understand what Paul is saying in 1Timothy we must research the city of Ephesus. When we do we find that the Amazons were the founders of the city according to Greek myth, there were also statues of Amazons in the first temple of Artemis. In v.4 neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies. In the Temple of Artemis they taught genealogies of the Amazons, it also was an all woman cult. These are the genealogies Paul speaks of v. 9-10 list some specific sins that were from the cult
mtlindale 4 months ago
@vekl Menstealers, murderers of fathers and mothers, manslayers & whoremongers go along with the cults doctrines & rituals. Paul states these sins then he gives his on testimony of GOD'S grace, Paul also brings up how women should dress it talks of braided hair, gold, pearls and such which is what the Priestess of Artemis would do to lure men for temple rituals. Then Paul tells timothy not to let the women teach why? It tells us in v. 6-7 then he says not to usurp authority over men.
mtlindale 4 months ago
@vekl When Paul says not to usurp authority hes coming against the doctrine of the cult of Artemis. He also brings up order of creation because the cult taught all life came from Eve, Paul states Eve came from Adam and says Eve was deceived and transgressed (as also the women of Ephesus were deceived). Then he says she will be saved in childbearing as long as she continues in the faith, also coming against the doctrine of the cult in which Artemis was to keep the women from dieing in childbirth.
mtlindale 4 months ago
@mtlindale "Paul says not to usurp authority hes coming against the doctrine of the cult of Artemis." I'm sorry but here I would have to disagree with your position. What you're doing here may to some degree may have some validity to it, but you are not going SOLELY by whats revealed in the context alone in the scriptures. You are ASSERTING that theory, when it in and of itself cannot be verified in the scriptures......
vekl 4 months ago
@vekl Disagree if you wish that's up to you, I have researched this fully both 1timothy and 1 Cor. 14.
mtlindale 4 months ago
@mtlindale 1) I guess we can just agree to disagree, but again, (and I'm asking kindly) please don't assert that the people with whom you disagree with have not done the research. That in my opinion can make you look very arrogant. You must also understand that there are other well respected and godly men who have far more education than yourself that disagree with you.......
vekl 4 months ago
@mtlindale 2)You should try to remember 1 Cor. 8:2. Please don't make the Lord humble you in an embarrassing fashion like He's done me becuz of my own arrogance from time to time.
vekl 4 months ago
@vekl Yes he does humble the prideful, wasn't trying to be arrogant just stating i have studied this over and over. I used to believe women were not called preach in church except in an all women service, I used these same verses to validate my belief until GOD enlightened me on the subject of women.
mtlindale 4 months ago
@mtlindale Well, if you want to believe that it's ok for women to be pastors over men, thn by all means have at it. Thank God that's it's not an essential.
vekl 4 months ago
@mtlindale 2)I'm covinced that what you've done is a very watered down type of eisegesis. There is a difference between getting historical premise and what you're attempting to do with the passage. You also seem to overlook the seeming UNIVERSALITY and TRANSCENDENCE of verse 13 &14. Paul gives a reason that is NOT only pertaining to a specific culture, time, or person but for all the Church, for all time.
vekl 4 months ago
@vekl My comments are backwards, 3 of them. I watched it all I will watch the others too.
mtlindale 4 months ago
Your carnal, your eyes are close, there are many texts in the Bible that show
women in leadership. Im going pray that God will open you eyes to his Power.
I wont cast my pearls, however I will be on blast lifting up the Women of God.
Women can be the Pastor in the body of Christ. Standing at the divine desk.
samariababii 4 months ago
@samariababii Well, although you are most definitely speaking out of emotion rather than truth and rationality, you're also welcome to your own opinion. Perhaps before you make such assertions and assumptions, you should check out the ENTIRE video as well as the other videos. You can pray for me if you'd like. But I'm already covered by the blood of my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, and I'm filled with His Holy Spirit. God bless.
vekl 4 months ago
If God calls a woman for something greater. To preach the gospel, to be a pastor. Who are we to say no? I don't remember Jesus or God ever saying no. I understand why woman aren't and why they shouldn't. A man is the leader. But we can't say that it is unbiblical can we? There are times in the bible that talk about men leading the church and how they should do it but does it really say that woman shouldn't? If so please point me to that verse.
VVAANNEE101 5 months ago
@VVAANNEE101 "If God calls a woman for something greater" I certainly agree. IF God calls a woman to be a pastor, then it would be right, simply becuz it was God's will, and God's pl would know that this was of God IF such an instance were to come about. In fact, I made this point in the 3rd video. BUT it is NOT the norm. There is no evidence in the bible that women are normally engaged in ecclesiastical authority over men. I just think it's unbiblical. There is no good argument for it yet.
vekl 5 months ago
@VVAANNEE101 "Who are we to say no?
As Christians we say no when God's word says no and it most certainly does regarding women being in authority over men in the church or the home.
"I timothy 2:11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man, she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve."
Yes we can say that it is unbiblical for a woman to teach or be in authority over men in the church.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@ttsqas
Again with 1 Timothy. Sorry, but PAUL did NOT write that book and who is that anonymous author to tell us to be servants to a man?
The cultural ideals are seeping into some scripture and that is NOT what JESUS said.
WE refer back to what JESUS says about such things for AFFIRMATIONS.
No where does JESUS say any such thing about women.
Women are in positions of authority in the church, home and government , society. As men have that RIGHT too.
anotheronem 4 months ago
@VVAANNEE101 "To preach the gospel, to be a pastor."
Anyone can preach the gospel even children but just as children are not supposed to be in authroity over their parents in the home neither are women supposed to be in authority over men in the home or the church.
Also when God inspired Paul to write to Timothy regarding the criteria for pastors he said "husband" not (wife). If women could be pastors then he would have said "husband of one wife" or (wife of one husband).
ttsqas 4 months ago
@ttsqas
Women could not have MORE than one husband. The anonymous writer of 1 Tim is only pointing out the married state - ie ONE wife. Seeing as women could only have one husband, no mention is made of a womans marital numbers. Otherwise the NUMBER ONE would NOT have been used.
anotheronem 4 months ago
@ttsqas
You do realize that women are Bishops and Priests and preachers, pastors, ministers, reverends and so forth.
And many marriages work with the EQUAL partner concept. Not equal in attributes, but EQUAL in worth and say.
anotheronem 4 months ago
@anotheronem "You do realize that women are Bishops and Priests and preachers, pastors, ministers, reverends and so forth."
You do realize that the false leaders in Jesus' day were in those positions yet God did not place them there?
"many marriages work with the EQUAL partner concept. Not equal in attributes, but EQUAL in worth and say."
What you call "work" is not what God calls "work". When marriages are based upon this world's ideas rather than God's they do not work.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@VVAANNEE101 1 Timothy 3:1 "This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work. 2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife......"
In any even the 1st verse I gave you is a cler and specific restriction against women teaching men or being in authority over them in the church.
If we are going to reject these verses then we might as well reject all others.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@ttsqas
Again, did YOU not read what I wrote earlier. Did MEN have MORE than one wife. 1 Tim (which was NOT written by PAUL) is only talking about a bishop must be the husband of ONE wife. It means nothing more.
Do you eat pork, shellfish? Then YOU reject scripture.
anotheronem 4 months ago
@anotheronem "1 Tim (which was NOT written by PAUL) is only talking about a bishop must be the husband of ONE wife. It means nothing more."
You do not know that 1 Timothy was not written by Paul. If he had wrote that women should teach and usurp authority over men then you'd be saying it was written by Paul.
BTW it is a lie that all it addressed was a bishop having one wife. It list other things to look for in candidates for bishops....it seems you reject those as well.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@anotheronem "Do you eat pork, shellfish? Then YOU reject scripture."
Sorry but you'll have to tell your father satan that that lie won't work either....I am not under the law but under grace.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@ttsqas
Do you own slaves? Do you eat locusts. Are you taking a vow of poverty or celibacy?
All these notions are in the bible.
Which do YOU pick and choose. For ALL must pick and choose. It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow the bible literally and physically according to each scripture statement.
So YOU reject scripture and accept scripture according to the way you were taught or are learning.
anotheronem 4 months ago
@anotheronem "Do you own slaves? Do you eat locusts. Are you taking a vow of poverty or celibacy?
All these notions are in the bible."
You continue to reveal you ignorance.
You are of those that Peter said were ignorant and unstable who twisted Paul's letters and other scripture.
None of those things are required of us under grace.
If you in your arrogance did not reject scripture that explains this in detail you would have known this.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@anotheronem "Which do YOU pick and choose."
I do not pick and choose......you do. I am free from the law so the choice was already made I do not have to pick and choose between law and grace when I am in Christ.
"For ALL must pick and choose."
Yet another lie from your father. You and others who have not known Christ oick and choose.
ttsqas 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@anotheronem "So YOU reject scripture and accept scripture according to the way you were taught or are learning."
satan keeps putting lies in your heart and you keep posting them.
I do not reject scripture PERIOD! I accept all of God's word. Unlike you I understand that trusting in Christ and not the law is not rejecting the law.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@anotheronem "It is IMPOSSIBLE to follow the bible literally and physically according to each scripture statement."
It is impossible for someone like you to understand the Bible with your natural mind. You have proven that you are blind to truth in the Bible.
The Bible's instructions to men and women regarding their roles in the church and home are to be taken literally. The fact that you cannot differentiate between what is to be taken literal and what is not is telling.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@ttsqas
As for your slams and insults to me - a Christian! GOD KNOWS and GOD is the judge. Not some man who THINKS he knows peoples souls. I would highly suggest you refrain from such insults and ignorance when in discussions about scripture for you are OUT of line.
You (or others like you) employ that tactic to make others be quiet and subservient, which also means YOU have LOST the argument.
I pray you will find peace over the issue of WOMENS equality in the CHURCH.
anotheronem 4 months ago
@anotheronem "As for your slams and insults to me - a Christian! GOD KNOWS and GOD is the judge. Not some man who THINKS he knows peoples souls."
As for your arrogant rejection of God's word that Jesus taught through the apostles I know and God knows. God chose who should lead the church not some deceived presumptuous woman or man. God's word does not end where you wish it did with the synoptic gospels.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@anotheronem ". I would highly suggest you refrain from such insults and ignorance when in discussions about scripture for you are OUT of line."
I would highly suggest that you stop rejecting God's word and that you end your foolish attempts at twisting scripture your are in great error.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@anotheronem "You (or others like you) employ that tactic to make others be quiet and subservient, which also means YOU have LOST the argument."
You and others like you are proud deceived liars, blind to the truth, thinking you know something when you know nothing.
You and others like you reject scripture that clearly refutes your ignorant ideas and characterize those who accept all of God's words as "emplying tactics".
It is God's word that you argue with not mine in your foolishness.
ttsqas 4 months ago
@anotheronem "YOU have LOST the argument."
Yet another lie from your father satan.
"I pray you will find peace over the issue of WOMENS equality in the CHURCH."
I pray that God grants you repentance from your rebellion against the word that he gave us through the apostles.
Any prayer of yours will be a waste until that time comes.
ttsqas 4 months ago
I find this Video Funny Because Corinthians Chapter 14 verse 34 says to keep you women silent for they are not permitted to speak in church.
They are to be submissive and how its a shame for women to speak in church.
God sure is sexist isn't he?
Random0832 5 months ago
@Random0832 I think the statement you made shows that you did not watch the entire video. The video is not about women being slient in the church. You really need to take the time to watch and pay close attention to what is being said before you make statements. You don't wanna be deemed as being irrational with your thinking.
vekl 5 months ago
@vekl Ah sorry about that should of taken the time to watch the vid.
Random0832 5 months ago
1 Timothy 2:11-15
Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man
GemTech2012 6 months ago
I agree.... Women should not be in a position to teach men. But why would we want to ?
LadyNemesis2007 6 months ago
wait Beth Moore is not a pastor....... she is just a teacher.... she dont even have a church. she belongs to a baptist church I know
HolyVisitation 6 months ago
Romans 16, Acts 18,21 etc.
And Jesus never restricted women - it is only men restricting women, which in turn is then AGAINST what Jesus would want.
It is therefore, unchristian to say women cannot be priests, preachers, pastors, elders, and bishops or even the head of the whole church.
And anyone who has problems - it really is too late.
Women have taken their rightful roles to be preaching and leading a congregation. Men should embrace this renewal.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 "Women have taken their rightful roles to be preaching and leading a congregation. Men should embrace this renewal. " Really? what passage do you have that clarifies this?
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
I guess you can't read.
btw, there are contradictory passages about this.
And I and others REFER to CHRISTS authority. NOT a random mans authority. remember books of Timothy, Titus, Ephesians, Colossians are NOT even writtten by Paul.
Jesus did not write the bible, but we can glean sufficient from the synoptic gospels to see that Jesus did not deny women places in the ministry.
Rm 16, Acts 18,21 clarify women as early church leaders in same category as men.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 Well, I disagree. Those passages most certainly do not declare women as pastors or spiritual leaders over men. I've already covered those passages in my 3rd video anyway. But if that's what want to continue to believe, then by all means, have at it. I'm just thankful that it's not an essential. So, if you so desire, continue on going on to your women-lead congregations, and allow me to keep going to my biblically lead congregagtions, and just let bygones be bygones. God bless you.
vekl 7 months ago
You are falsely representing Christ if you lead a congregation teaching men usurp authority over women and that women cannot lead a congregation. .
1 Tim is not authored by Paul and has no authority over Christians. Jesus has authority. NOT MEN! or WOMEN! Romans 16 describes CLEARLY that women were in full leadership roles in the Church.
Otherwise revise the biblical dictionary for the TERM apostle.
To say women cannot preach is harmful to Christians. That is on YOUR head.
coolwater55 7 months ago
@coolwater55 "To say women cannot preach is harmful to Christians. That is on YOUR head." This statement here is probably the greatest example of emotionalism on this channel. Coolwater55 has no premise to base this statement on. This proves that he has an axe to grind and does not care about truth but just wants to force people to agree with him.
vekl 7 months ago
@coolwater55 I have great brothers in Christ that agree with you on this issue, and I can fellowship with them with no problem, but none of them would come to the point that you have by insulting the integrity of those that disagree with you. For now, i'm going to block you, and I sincerely mean no offense in doing this but, you seem to do nothing but cause discord and seek to win arguments with poeple. If you are truly interested in furthering this discussion, make a video about it.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
1. blocking is normally a sign one has lost the argument and wants to write a bit more to look like they "won".
2. To deny women preachers IS HARMFUL - because Jesus never says any such thing. Acts and Romans CLEARLY have women preachers. Anonymous AUTHOR in 1 Tim or Titus is NOT the authority 4. The HARMFUL part: As long as SEX ABUSE & PHYSICAL abuse exist in the CHURCH and christian families - male only leadership has proven many times to be HARMFUL! to women and children.
anotheronem 7 months ago
And although many men and male preachers are good, there are sufficient numbers who abuse and continue to abuse in the name of male only authority.
So, it is TOO late. MEN had their chance and did not clean up the atrocities committed against women and children.
That is BECAUSE male only leadership was NEVER sanctioned by God in the first place. The horrible imbalance over centuries has caused many harms.
Women MUST take their rightful place to balance the all male leadership.
anotheronem 7 months ago
And male only leadership has harmed men too.
For we have a dearth of abused young boys in all male clergy areas - and many a punitive male father/husband figure who abuses his power exists to this day. JESUS said to let the little children come and I never saw any scripture where JESUS condones hitting children or denying women.
Jesus said to TEACH, he never said to HIT.
So, block me too if you want, the TRUTH is out, and for YOU to teach otherwise is against the Holy Spirit.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem Perhaps I should block you, but you so far don't appear to be as condescending at contentious as coolwater55....unlees you're his sock account. Who knows/ who cares? It doesn't matter. the issue of women pastors is not an essential and it's not worth condemning the true believer of Christ over. Let bygones be bygones.....
vekl 7 months ago
@anotheronem you have no authority whatsoever to tell me that I'm against the Holy Spirit since you are not God, neither are you a prophet. So, as I stated to coolwater55; if you so desire, continue on going on to your women-lead congregations, and allow me to keep going to my biblically lead congregagtions. as for me and my house, we will worship the LORD.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
You have no authority to tell women or your congregation that they cannot have women preachers.
So, you are not God.
BUT.. evidence is glaring that many women and children have been harmed with an all male autotratic notion in history and even today.
So, as for ME, I will WORSHIP JESUS and not the bible. The bible has its place, but is Not to be worshipped.
I follow Jesus and discern with the Holy Spirit those supporters who will align with Jesus and equality for all.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@vekl
In reality if you persist in saying women cannot preach you are not in line with the bible. For the bible contradicts itself on that score.
OR, do MEN contradict themselves?
All the best and prayers and blessings to you.
No one has been contentious here, it is your ego that is bristling that people have proven that Jesus does not restrict women. You made videos to say otherwise, which are incorrect.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem Wow. you most certainly said a mouthful. i'm not even sure where to begin. But after looking at your channel, I can see that you have a TREMENDOUS amount of inconsistencies regarding your position on the nature of God. Apparently, you appear to be an extreme feminist and also seem to have a hatred of men. you also seem to make faulty assertions of men regarding the treatment of women in the bible......
vekl 7 months ago
@anotheronem ". blocking is normally a sign one has lost the argument and wants to write a bit more to look like they "won". This statement here is just a copout way of trying to get my goat! It's not working. I've made my stance. Said my piece. If you wanna publicly debate over this issue, I'd gladly challenge you. But the videos stay, and you can carry on with your silly ad hominem attacks against my character. It's sad, but carry on.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
It am not attacking your character, when I stated that teaching that women cannot preach is against the Holy Spirit. For that is truth.
The bible says women can preach. If the bible contradicts itself at times, it is MEN contradicting themselves.
Jesus did NOT deny women to be preachers and included women in his ministry.
As outlined (re sex and physical abuse) there is potential for harms to persist in teaching something that Jesus did NOT say.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem The fact that you have to continue to attack my character makes it very evident that you're not being led of the Spirit. This is very typical of those who try to argue from emotionalism. Also, there is nothing in scripture that says that women being pastors is blasphemous. It's only not scriptural.There is a difference. so, there's nothing in scripture that says that I MUST believe that women can be pastors, especially since there simply is no text that permits it, anyway.
vekl 7 months ago
Just because Christ did not say women can be doctors also does not mean anything. Your reasoning does not make sense.
Jesus did NOT restrict people. He allowed people of all walks of life to be with him and learn, believe. And then told those people to go tell others and learn and believe.
When we believe in JESUS, however, we believe the command to love one another.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem The contents on your channel tell me a little bit about why youhold that position, and it seems to me that the only reason you have that position is because you have a very liberal and non-biblical perspective on the entire issue. No offense, but this is a very common trait with people who call themselves catholic. They want to be saved but don't want to submit to the authority of scripture.....
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl I am not a practicing Catholic. Believing that they "changed" was what drew me back. But when the "Catechism of the Catholic Doctrine" came out finally in late 1990's it was not so. That was based on the Vatican ll council IN 1965 - Nothing much changed.
I am a free Christian if one terms it and follow CHRIST. One cannot follow the "bible" or "believe in the bible", for the discrepencies are massive.
But following Christ, via the Holy Spirit is the REAL journey. God Bless.
anotheronem 7 months ago
Many protestants are highly misinformed about Catholics btw.
My mother is a protestant, I know many protestants of different denominations and ATTENDED Many varying churches - pentecostal, baptist, United, Methodist, Baha'i (short while) in addition to Catholic.
At age 55, about 20 years as an adult studying or practicing, either or.
No one knows how the Holy Spirit will work, but it was Catholic nun who was the vessel for my conversion to becoming a believing CHRISTIAN!
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem 2)And you're right. If we are brethren, then we should keep 1 John 4 in our hearts. But if you dare openly condemn another believer in public, then perhaps next time before you do so, you need first to make sure that YOU yourself don't already stink. Make sure that beam is out of your OWN eye before you try to remove the mote out of your brothers eye.
vekl 7 months ago
1. I strive for education from all sources, then assimilate in alignment with the Holy Spirit.
2. God is supposed to be nameless and genderless according to first descriptions but all of a sudden god becomes MALE along the way?
3. I watch info about God's nature or other concepts of male or female God? You accuse me of "stinking"? for QUESTIONING ancient male perspective history?
Education is good, it is NOT going to sway me from LOVE of CHRIST.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem So by all mean, let bygones be bygones, and continue to attend all the female lead congregations you wish. It's none of my business.
vekl 7 months ago
@anotheronem From this point on, though i will respect you as an intelligent human being, I cannot nor WILL not respect your opinion on this issue. I do not view you as one that is competent enough to fully substantiate any opposing position. Coolwater55 though we disagree, was at least a Christian, that has some resemblence of knowing God and His word. But you ma'am, I don't know what you are, especially by some of those questionable videos you have on your channel.....
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
I can "substantiate" what actually exists in the bible, versus what JESUS actually says.
I can "substantiate" that we know women birth babies and we know a lot about nature than they did back in biblical times. Which ranges about 6000 years of journey and thought.
I can "substantiate" the abhorrence of men killing innocent women and children in the bible and justifying by saying "god told me to do it". I can still say it is ancient ignorance and wrong.
anotheronem 7 months ago
Those things I just mentioend are REALITIES. The two biggest contradictions in the bible:
"Thou Shalt not kill" but God sends MOSES and others on a massive killing sprees after that COMMANDMENT is issued.
Adam births eve from his "rib" ?? and men abused that "fable" to justify squashing women and making them servants of men.
anotheronem 7 months ago
EVE did NOT cause sin! - ancient men usurped power of the strong female led agrigarian societies who REVERED CREATIVE life of a womans fertility. ALL THE EARTHS CHILDREN, came from EVE, not man. EVE had KNOWLEDGE and that was her UNDOING! Men still hate it when a woman knows more than him,
The eve fable has caused enormous destruction.
LOOK carefully that all JESUS says - Matt, Mark, Luke and John and see that JESUS was the polar opposite of those ancient men. God Bless.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem I'm sorry to say but based on some of the videos you have in your favorites, you make it EXTREMELY difficult to believe that you are believer in Christ. You may have knwoledge that He existed, but I'm not convinced that you KNOW Him.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
Good thing then, that you are NOT CHRIST. For I do not have to convince you of anything.
I am aligned with the Holy Spirit via Christ and my knowledge base is based on Christ.
My earthly interests in studying or discovering do not define my strong belief and devotion to CHRIST.
How can you or even I possibly discern the state of someone "knowing Christ"?
You cannot. We could only say so if someone was WILLFULLY harming others or really into Satanism or something.
anotheronem 7 months ago
I am a Christian and NOT by my own violition. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit was a total shock to me when I asked God for forgiveness years ago - 1990 at my kitchen table. . Mid freezing winter - a ball of orange powerful glowing light flashing through my window right smack deep into my soul. I was in the middle of a heartfelt PRAYER to ask forgiveness for anything I had done that may have offended Christ, either through ignorance or willfully.
anotheronem 7 months ago
I was balling my eyes out with revelation of what I thought was a good life was not so much so - in the eyes of Christ. I always believed in Jesus, but I had intellectualized the bible prior to that point.
This powerful transformation occurred without me the least bit expecting it. And it was a beautiful charismatic nun who led that prayer.
YOU cannot discern my soul - nor can I discern - your soul or journey with Christ. Or anyone elses for that matter. Only Christ truly knows.
anotheronem 7 months ago
Of course we can make informed discernment if we witness someone harming others or themselves or blatant followers of Satan.
What does CHRIST ask of us is the question? and HOW do we respond is the answer.
People fighting over meaning of scripture seems to be the biggest block to true or FULL CHRISTIANITY from what I and many others see.
What really matters? in the end - is OUR faith to DO what God asks of us. And that is simple.
To LOVE God and to LOVE one another. 1 John 4
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem I honestly don't mean to sound judgmental, but you are arguing with me and condemning me earlier about my position on women pastors, while at the same time favoriting questionable videos on your channel that would appear to be contrary to what Christ would agree to. This is why I said what I said.....
vekl 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I stated:
"To deny women preachers IS HARMFUL - because Jesus never says any such thing. Acts and Romans CLEARLY have women preachers. Anonymous AUTHOR in 1 Tim or Titus is NOT the authority 4. The HARMFUL part: As long as SEX ABUSE & PHYSICAL abuse exist in the CHURCH and christian families - male only leadership has proven many times to be HARMFUL! to women and children."
So where do I condemn YOU personally?
anotheronem 7 months ago
Look at the broader picture and you will see I condemn the "construct" of all male clergy and the harms that perpetuate from that . I also state that there are many good male clergy, but that does NOT make up for the harms perpetuated from the all male cast for millenium - where women do not have input or a say or power over their own lives.
Women in positions of authority would help other women see they do NOT have to put up with harms in the name of God.
anotheronem 7 months ago
So, in being FRANK about the real harms that perpetuate to this day - we must address all aspects of the social construct of church environments or what is being taught and by whom.
The problem: boys, girls and women being ABUSED either physically or sexually or emotionally, in the name of God.
To the tune of about 12% sex abuse in the churches cross the board with denominations.
That does NOT include the women who are restricted by husbands from working or even driving at times.
anotheronem 7 months ago
You refused to respond to the reality of these harms or to find a solution that would stop these harms. Instead you say I insult you?
What kind of response is that to the sex abuse of a child? That is reality.
Women are forced to submit under the "thumb" of a man as head of household whether he is a GOOD leader or NOT?
Men and women should CO-LEAD on pulpits with boards of 6 men and 6 women overseeing THEIR conduct! If you see a problem with that solution, let us discuss it.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem You see what I mean? This is exactly why I know that (no offense) that you do not know the scriptures as well as you try to present yourself to be. You have not stated one passage in scripture that supports your position. Instead, you went off to this other issue about abuse (which is wrong), but it is TOTALLY irrelevant, and has nothing to do with women not being appointed as pastors. This type of argumentation is called 'red herring'.....
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
Romans 16. Acts 18, 21.
Jesus ministry does not see him restricting women. The problem is that all male clergy CANNOT and DOES NOT represent HALF their congregation in a proper manner for the most part.
And the abuse that lies underneath is NOT cauterized due to that power of men only it perpetuates with each generation.
How are you handling the abuse problems? in your church or congregation? Giving men all power and authority over women is part of the problem.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@vekl
ABUSE has everything to do with WOMEN not being allowed to be in control of her own life or in a position to be on equal footing with her husband or with congregation or with the pastor.
Abuse It is NOT the womans or childs fault. It is the FACT that men are GIVEN power over a woman, where she should have SOLE say over her own life. And be able to protect her children.
And who is NOT emotional over a childs life being destroyed by being sexually abused? Are you kidding me?
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem You also (again) seem to be incapable of reasoning without resorting to emotion. Yes, it's wrong that women and children are treated badly in this world, but that has NOTHING to do with God's word. God's word does not order men to act cruel towards women. In fact, it orders the complete opposite. I hope that you can see that for yourself, and not let the your 'clergy' tell you what it says. Read it for yourself.
vekl 7 months ago
I am resorting to LOGIC and DEDUCTION:
Men as the ONLY leader and say in a church or home, can easily slip into overdomineering, not to mention abuse.
Men are "supposed" to understand their role. But they had their chance for 2000 years and it is NOT working. Scripture has contradictions. And any man who want to overexert control over his wife or family can easily do so with justifying it in scripture.
anotheronem 7 months ago
Quote me ANY "emotional" comment that I made please.
anotheronem 7 months ago
1. I have READ the bible FRONT to BACK (TWICE - THOROUGHLY) every single word and UNDERSTOOD fully the context and actions of men in jewish wanderings of discovering nature vs. God.
2. I have read the NT 100's of times.
3. I KNOW how to read history and compare relative literature or historical writings.
4. Even at that, those writings are all male biased. Women did not get to write "their story or view".
anotheronem 7 months ago
5. I have 7 bibles - different versions.
6. I have many more books on spiritual writings, saints, or writings on doctrine etc. In addition to reading dearth of volumes on the subject or part of bible study groups.
7. I always see people make that assumption who get stumped. So not sure why you think you know my life or how many times I read the bible. Because I do not litter the page with scripture does not mean I don't KNOW what exists in the bible.
anotheronem 7 months ago
My short synopsis of the bible:
Written by ancient bronze age men at times, for ancient men, about ancient male wanderings and understandings of nature, life experience and God. Written from an ancient male perspective too, with ancient writing materials, over the course of 6000 years worth of stories (oral tradition) to the NT, which is written by ancient men still, about their experience of God.
anotheronem 7 months ago
They had ancient ideas about what was right, wrong, ancient myth, versus reality. ie men living to age 900 or describing pillars of salt in 1000's of miles of salt works in the ancient lands.
They were trying to figure out life, what made things go wrong or right and afterlife.
Men considered that women were lawful property value along with oxen.
re: 10 commandments is about male property or edicts. Women are property, so not considered.
anotheronem 7 months ago
Lot had no problems throwing his daughters out to be raped to protect male guests.
Men had many wives. Solomon apparently had 700 wives and 300 concubines and was extremely wealthy? how did he get that way? seems avarice, murder, greed and incest, carnal extremes, were amoung his qualities of endurance. Yet men are "reverring him"? for perpetuity in scripture.
Men raped and killed innocent women and children, in the name of God, even Moses did this.
anotheronem 7 months ago
Then after about 2000 years of this behaviour Jesus came to knock some sense into those men with words of love, healing, peace, joy, and getting rid of notions of:
avarice,
sexual sins,
gluttony,
do not kill, really MEANT that term "literally" for JESUS. No exceptions.
do not commit adultery was for MEN now too. They could not longer have many wives.
Jesus said the poor and low fringe people in society were just as WORTHY as the kings, queens and so forth.
anotheronem 7 months ago
So the bible in a nutshell.
Wandering jewish people trying to learn about life, death and afterlife and they did NOT really do a good job of learning in a timely fashion. They were similar to ALL other societies on earth in some respects. Mixing up myth with nature with God.
Then from darkness of that living way - into the light of Christ.
The LIGHT of CHRIST who can shine within all brought hope and light - but to ALL not just the jewish or rich, lording men.
anotheronem 7 months ago
But they were NOT similar to the female led agrigarian PEACEFUL societies that many of the men overthrew.
The women were the priestesses and honoured as bearers of life. The women discovered how to plant and make stable communities.
Now of course men were involved too.
But... women were leaders in ancient times.
God of the bible was Jealous of the female reverence of some societies. For if God is all powerful and mighty, there would never be a need to be "jealous".
anotheronem 7 months ago
So bring it on, dear brother in Christ.
We can do a thorough investigation of history and the bible starting with Genesis 1 and the FACT that
God in Gen 1 creates male and female in OUR image and the last of creation.
But in Gen 2 god makes a whole different ORDER to creation and the NOTION that a man creates a woman out of his rib.
We KNOW women birth babies. And their own "bone (- or rib if you will) dna can be potentially cloned into a human, without a male contribution. ;)
anotheronem 7 months ago
Not that I would condone any such experimentation.
But answer this: if you wish:
Why perpetute these notions and have men throw in womens face the eve caused sin and should be punished for all perpetuity?
What is the "motive"? behind a mean, angry, violent, vicscious and vindictive God of the OT - who says "he can never change".
And then Jesus comes with peace, love, healing and miracles for all - that is the largest dichotomy of Gods nature - and NOT easily explained.
anotheronem 7 months ago
So, I and others have "logically and horrifically" observed that the bible is a dangerous book, if not read properly or understood.
If one, however, refers to the bible as a story of those peoples from darkness to the light of Christ and that only CHRISTS words, actions and notions are to be "considered" a way to live, then one can grasp what Jesus came for.
But to wrap all the OT and then the cultural perpetuated notions of St. Paul into the mix, confusion and many problems will ensue.
anotheronem 7 months ago
LOGIC tell us that over 30,000 different CHURCHES exist regarding disagreement with doctrine and interpretation of the bible.
Not to mention the individual interpretations.
ERGO we must be educated, informed and study for oneself and align with the Holy Spirit to live as CHRIST wants.
Not live as MEN want. Some women preachers are off track too - because they only had "male authority" to learn from at times.
God Bless. Talk later if you wish to continue.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem I really don't know what else to say to you, except that you appear to be incapable of validating your position on the issue of women not being appointed as pastors. If this is the best that you can do, then there really is no more use in continuing. You are not resorting to scripture but emotion. i won't block you, but i am done talking, unless you want to set up a friendly discussion via Skype. I'll be up for that.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
I did offer scripture that shows women as early deacons (phoebe) , apostle (Junia) Rm 16
JESUS never made any proclamation against women preaching or being "pastors".
Instead, Jesus - commends/commands a Woman - Mary Magdalene to be the first "preacher" as witness from Jesus own mouth to go and tell the others of his Resurrection.
That means she is the gospel messenger of the largest kind and the first preacher. Not that it makes her "better, but it does define her role.
anotheronem 7 months ago
Tell me where my comments were "emotional" and not fact.
I did NOT relay them "emotionally", but as FACTS. Other than the description of the OT men, which is all TRUE.
Your head is in the sand over this one, and I can't change that. Only You can become aware of what I am referring to. It is FACT that a certain percentage of women and children being abused by some clergy or husbands/fathers. Fact that so called "christian led homes" have domestic violence.
God help us all.
anotheronem 7 months ago
So, you refuse to acknowledge the scriptures that exist regarding women as leading in Church ministries in the bible. Instead you focus on isolated scripture that denies women those rights.
Gal 3:28 also says, no more male, female, slave, master.
The Paul's Contradiction to tell women to be silent - (although disagreement about that interpretation exists) is USED against women.
Women have been "harmed" by those restrictions of abuse of scripture and we say it should be stopped.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@vekl
I quoted plenty of scripture, so why create a false impression as those comments pass the pages? Scripture - or JESUS in this case does not deny women. Only MEN deny women.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem No, ma'am. you have not. And even if you did, you did not provide a consistent exegesis of the passage in order to support your position. Not that there is any way for you to do so anyhow.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
Romans 16. Anyone can read it and know that women were considered church leaders along with men. Not EXTRA explanation required. You refuse to see it.
I will take leave of you now. A 5th grader can read that passage and know.
May God Bless you. My work is done. It is on you to ignore what Jesus says and to recognize problems with all male clergy now.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem Thats an absolute failure to PROPERLY exegete scripture, but a good way to twist it in order to make it appease your liking. I'm sorry but you failed in this area, ma'am.
vekl 7 months ago
No exegsis is ever necessary on CLEAR passages.
One can enhance that understanding with historial references of peoples of that time frame. Or comparing to other scripture: Jesus does not deny women or restict them.
Phoebe is a deacon, Junia is an apostle. Deborah was a judge, ergo religious leader, Priscilla and Lydia leaders of the early churches. Prophetesses ARE pastors - same as prophets. OTHERWISE they would NOT speak and NO one would listen to their "words" of gods message.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@vekl
I did not twist anything. I defy anyone to read those passages and they can see.
It says what it says.
I am not forcing you to believe anything. Jesus already set it out. It is rightful for women to preach, and you deny women this right.
You and others refuse to respond to sex and physical abuse that exist to this day in Church and christian homes. . So you fault me - instead of addressing that very critical problem. That is a failure on your part.
anotheronem 7 months ago
You are subverting responding to critical points, by an attack on my knowledge base.
People can read what I wrote. Unfortunately you either don't understand, or you refuse to acknowledge the problems in the church with all male clergy.
If you don't see women preaching as blasphemy, then what holds you back. Christ did not restrict women and women were church leaders in biblical times. Ego? pride? or - you will not be able to make a woman subservient to you? Just wondering.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem 2)Personally, I think it's real sad that you not only are unable to properly and HONESTLY exegete the passages you bring up (which I already addressed in video 3), but you also continue to constantly go to issues that are not at all relevant to what is actually written in the scriptures regarding this issue. THIS is a serious problem, and personally, I don't find it as a grounds to win ANY debate on this issue from an academic or even rational standpoint......
vekl 7 months ago
@anotheronem 3)Again, we're not going to get very far here in the comments section. If you want to argue your point, then fine. Doesn't mean that it's grammatically or biblically correct, and you're not going to change what's already and have always been written in scripture, neither will you change the minds of those that agree with ppl such as myself. But let's just assume that this is NOT an issue that is salvific. Women pastors will not see hell becuz they are pastors.....
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
Your personal interpretation of scripture has left huge holes. You cannot explain away the dichotomy of allowing women leaders and then SOME LONE random men NOT allowing it.
And ABUSE exists with MEN who think they own women and many Christian men do this.
Not all men, but enough men in the church abuse that authority. So as far as CHRISTS commands go, hurting the little ones or others is AGAINST HIM. If you persist, therefore, you will be against Christ in that regard.
anotheronem 7 months ago
@anotheronem Have a nice day.
vekl 7 months ago
@anotheronem 4)...I think that they're just in biblical error. So let bygones be bygones. You made your statement, and you failed to convince me and many others. And I admit the same of myself. Have a nice day.
vekl 7 months ago
@vekl
It is good I don't have to convince you. Majority of Protestant Christians believe that there is no problem with female pastors and welcome them with open arms.
That is about 1 billion - with 50% female congregation.
The bible does say women can be church leaders. - CLEARLY so.
Men will find obscure ancient cultural passages that contradict. But because it does say women can, it stands.
You are in a minority. Persist with ancient ideals, it does not really do good.
anotheronem 6 months ago
You have a good day too.
anotheronem 6 months ago
@anotheronem "The bible does say women can be church leaders. - CLEARLY so."
How many women apostles or bishops are in the NT?
I can show where the NT names men who were apostles and bishops.
If you can't provide scripture naming any women apostles or bishops and yet you deny that there is no distinction made by God in those offices then you are not being honest with yourself.
That is what I notice about what you post; NOT ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE CITING A WOMAN APOSTLE OR BISHOP!
ttsqas 6 months ago
@ttsqas The stem of the word apostle means "to send out" Mark and Luke's gospels, Jesus chooses twelve from his band of disciples and calls them his apostles.
Matthew and John does not employ the word "apostle".
In synoptic works it is the edict to have the same notions in each gospel to make the "story" true.
Find ME where JESUS specifically says that in order to lead a church OR to be a disciple and lead others to Christ - that one MUST be a bishop or apostle.
anotheronem 6 months ago
@anotheronem "Find ME where JESUS specifically says that in order to lead a church OR to be a disciple and lead others to Christ - that one MUST be a bishop or apostle."
That is very foolish question. The fact is as you well know that the apostles were the leaders of the entire church whom Jesus placed there. If you do not accept that which is clearly evident in scripture then you are simply rejecting the truth. PERIOD!
ttsqas 6 months ago
Find ME where JESUS specifically says that in order to LEAD a CHURCH or be a disciple to lead others to his salvation - that they MUST be a bishop or apostle.
If he only provided "one time spirit breathing" on the 12 "apostles" then NO one else can be a sanctioned church leader. Either JESUS sent those 12 to bring MORE to Christ, so those people in TURN can bring more to CHRIST or NOT. And the PENTECOST there were MEN and WOMEN who received the HOLY SPIRIT.
anotheronem 6 months ago
@anotheronem "In synoptic works it is the edict to have the same notions in each gospel to make the "story" true."
Several NT books other than the Gospels call the apostles who were all men apostles. Also only someone with a wicked heart would suggest that it is not true that the apostles were the leaders of the church and that Jesus placed them there.
ttsqas 6 months ago