It's Elementary

[Bigpheet]

One goes to school to learn how to do maths. One goes to school to learn how to do science. One goes to school to learn how to do sports. One goes to school to learn how to do geology etc etc. One goes to school to learn how to do..GAY-SEX?

[Bigpheet]

These gay teachers have sex, sex sex and even more sex on their brains so how can one talk rationally with these type of people who much prefer talking about their sex-life with kids!

[Bigpheet]

If these guys (mature adults?) stopped the kids on my street and suggested: want to come to my house to see some great videos on how my boyfriend has sex and why we like it he would be arrested and sent down for a very long time yet they can do this same thing "lawfully" just because they are in school? Gruesome!

[PtAltmVansanTarr]

@Eragarev Has "desegregation" helped so much in the US-no, as we can see in modern cities and suburbs, blacks are for the most part largely segregated from the white communities. Google "food desert". The places where they aren't is because of class-the upper elite African Americans who live on Martha's Vineyard for example. Making videos like this will be preaching to the choir for those who are part of the upper class white culture, while it will have little effect on those who live in commun

[PtAltmVansanTarr]

@MomSpeaksOut which is exactly why this shouldn't be shown to school kids and why we don't need federal and state dollars spent on this. I guarantee this will become a class issue with those members of less affluent communities being felt like they are stepped on. When has indoctrinating kids on school ever helped? This will also lead to Christians going to private schools in even greater numbers.

[PtAltmVansanTarr]

"intelligence directing" LOL, seriously, I'm liberal, but that is doublespeak

[Indycritic]

It's never a good example using children defending your beliefs because it shows how low the mentality the debate is. That's why creationists are taken down by evolutionist when they say children know that God created the world.

[alfano777]

Parents, Please be aware of what is going on in public schools at your expense.

Children from the tenderest age are being indoctrinated with ungodly views on relationships and society.

[Eragarev]

@alfano777 That's just not true, alfnao777. More and more people are realizing the fact that being gay doesn't make you immoral or vice versa. I know it makes some people uncomfortable to be around gay people, but these are the same kinds of people who were uncomfortable having blacks drink our of THEIR water fountains. In time, this prejudice will be devoid of power.

[alfano777]

Yet they have no problem with violating the

moral freedom of each child and parent in teaching them evil things that they do not wish to be taught. For these degenerate people "freedom" is the power to impose their immoral lifestyle on everyone else

[alfano777]

At a time when few children can read well, I think that schools should be focusing on teaching academic skills instead of destroying our children's souls with

this garbage. These pagan teachers refuse to teach the Bible in schools saying that they must protect the "religious freedom" of each child.

[MomSpeaksOut]

@alfano777 - this video is wonderful. It teaches children what they already know. Gays and lesbians are human. Many Christians completely accept gays and lesbians. Stop using the Bible as the rationalization for your lack of real education.

[moogle301]

Not 100% relevant to the video but isn't it weird when people don't way gay people in the media because they don't want to explain what gay is?

Yet it's so easy!

Some girls like guys, some girls like girls

Some guys like girls, some guys like guys :]

And that's not even an explanation which could be considered biased!

[ShadowKitten13]

"Who really cares if you're gay? I mean, what's the big whoop?"

I want to hug that boy. Forreal. :)

[beetlebabee]

At the beginning of this discussion this was said: "Disagreeing with the gay lifestyle (is not wrong) but mistreating gays IS."

Absolutely. We agree on this point, in fact, why stop at gays? Why not say mistreating ANYONE is wrong? Including those who feel same sex attractions but choose to act otherwise.

Why not just take the behavior out of the equation and simply address the issue of mistreatment? That way no one is discriminated against by either gay or straight.

[glapenguin]

The problem is when the "love the sinner, hate the sin" argument becomes political. Most people who feel that way don't support equal marriage or equal-opportunity adoption laws and are, therefore, discriminating pretty hardcore.

[beetlebabee]

Is it that the argument becomes political, or is it that some people confuse actions and desires with people? Are we talking about discriminating against the people or against the lifestyle? There's a difference.

All people can adopt under given circumstances. Those circumstances are the same for everyone regardless of orientation. All people can marry under given circumstances. Those circumstances are the same for everyone regardless of sexual orientation. Because All People Are Equal.

[glapenguin]

I don't see much of a distinction, here. If someone votes, for example, yes on question one because they disagree with the lifestyle, their actions still affect the person, still discriminate against a group of people.

False. Gay adoption is legal in fewer than 25 states. Many states prohibit unmarried persons from adopting for the sole purpose of excluding gay couples. All people are equal, but they are not treated as such- no equal adoption, no equal marriage.

[beetlebabee]

Adoption rules have nothing to do with sexual orientation, only gender. You have to be able to give kids what they need most, a mom and a dad.

[glapenguin]

What kids need most is a family. One dad, one mom, a mom and a dad, two dads, two moms, grandparents... Do you believe kids are better off staying in the foster care system than being adopted by a gay couple?

[rainbowheartgirl]

Beetle seems to be confused about adoption laws. It's perfectly legal for a single adult to adopt a child, and that's in all 50 states. You don't have to provide "a mom and a dad." All you have to do is be able to provide a secure, stable, loving home.

[beetlebabee]

"Programs like this could effectively end the ability of children to identify the value of choice and consequence. Imagine a school where children are taught not to judge based on right or wrong, to shun any standard of behavior. Is that the world I want my future children to grow up in?

What you are asking is not simply to respect people who feel same-sex attraction, because then we would agree. The part where we don't agree is where everyone has to agree on the behavior choices that follow.

[glapenguin]

"Behavior choices?" You may engaging in same-sex relationships, don't you? It's okay to be gay- as long as you don't act on it! Pardon me, but- SERIOUSLY? Do you honestly see sexual orientation as an argument between "right and wrong?" How do you justify that? If someone is born a certain way, how can you justify corresponding actions based on that trait as "wrong?"

Heterosexuality is not a "standard of behavior." Being gay or straight has NOTHING to do with an accepted moral code.

[shaikai]

I guess you all agree that respect for the other is a fundamental moral value we cannot give up. But I am afraid that cannot be taught in the abstract. You have to show children that people are different and how: Hispanos, Afroamericans, Muslims, LGBT people... If not, how is it supposed to be taught?

The point here is recognition of a human reality: there are non-heterosexual people, and they all need to live an honest life like anybody else. But how could that happen without recognition?

[beetlebabee]

There is a difference between respecting the person and respecting a person's actions. They are not one and the same. All choices are not created equal.

[shaikai]

And I perfectly agree with that.

[glapenguin]

Programs like this could effectively end homophobia. Imagine a school where children are taught not to judge based on sexual orientation, not to use slurs or to discriminate. That is the world I want my future children to grow up in.

[shaikai]

Well, why is still believed that being gay involves a particular lifestyle? It must be obvious to anybody mildly well informed that there is NO particular lifestyle shared by all gay men, and NO particular lifestyle shared by all gay women.

[beetlebabee]

I agree with you shaikai. There are many gay men and women who would rather live celibate lives than engage in same sex behavior. There is a difference between the orientation and the action. This difference is yet another thing not addressed in the film. According to the film, the orientation commands the person and the action. There is no choice of how to act.

[glapenguin]

I could be mistaken, but I believe shaikai is referring to choices like wearing a condom or not, having many partners, or having a few, or just one. Not all gay men and women have unprotected sex with tons and tons of people. In the same sense that every straight person is different, every gay person is different.

In my experience, only people in tragically oppressed positions have decided to deny who they are and not act on their orientation. Programs like this would, hopefully, prevent that.

[beetlebabee]

I can't speak for what shaikai intended by this comment except for what is actually written there, which I agree with completely.

It's unfortunate that you, glapenguin, feel that everyone must behave as you do in order to avoid being labeled "tragically oppressed". I'd prefer to allow everyone to choose their own actions for their own reasons. I think the monolithic groupthink is actually what's oppressive here. Is there only one way to think?

[glapenguin]

So you believe that if I identify as gay, I should be able to act on my sexual orientation? That's certainly something I would agree with. I would also add that one has a right to act on one's sexual orientation without fear or judgement or discrimination. In fact, tolerance and acceptance should be actively petitioned for in the social sphere, including schools and including elementary schools.

How is a person who feels they cannot act on their sexual orientation not oppressed, I wonder?

[beetlebabee]

"How is a person who feels they cannot act on their sexual orientation not oppressed, I wonder? "

Are you equally oppressed when you decide not to eat that second helping of pie? or when you choose to refrain from beating your wife?

Oppression comes from a lack of choice. Everyone has choice. It's interesting that you simply deny anyone the freedom to choose anything but what you have chosen. Live and let live friend!

[glapenguin]

Oppression comes in many forms. Religion. Family and friends who believe that acting on sexual orientation is a moral choice. Society that allows discrimination or judgement based on sexual orientation. Just because the choice is there, doesn't mean it's so simple as to just take it. People like you, people with ideas like yours, are the oppressors. Not me.

[beetlebabee]

I wonder how someone who feels same sex attraction but chooses not to act on it feels about your judgmental statements? Forcing someone to act a certain way in order to be acceptable is oppressive no matter which side does the forcing.

[glapenguin]

No one should feel they NEED to repress that part of himself or herself. That is the argument. I'm not forcing anyone into a relationship.

[beetlebabee]

yet if they choose to remain celibate you denigrate their choice and impugn that they are not truly expressing their own free will, as if you only have the right to see inside their heads and know what their true desires are.

[beetlebabee]

another point of obvious bias: What was missing from the class discussions and the film's other presentations was equally revealing. There was never any mention of the scientifically proven promiscuity and disease crisis in gay male life, or the relationship between disease and anatomical unsuitability. If you're going to preach that gay behavior is good and wonderful, what about the balance? Health issues etc? The film comes across as completely one sided propaganda with no room for dissent.

[HegemonyKricket]

After working in High Schools and Middle Schools for the last three years, I'm excited to tell you that tolerance is occuring just through exposure. As pop culture has more out people, students are coming out more. As students come out more their peers are becoming more accustomed to homoesexuals being around them. So, the old addage is proving correct. Things change, stop fighting it.

Now, if we only had federal protection for the workplace then we might have adults coming out.

[beetlebabee]

Interesting, I thought the gay marriage campaigns in California and Maine both promised that this sort of stuff would not be taught in school. The very premise of the entire film is biased. If you have a problem with bullying, teach them about kindness and the golden rule, not lesbianism. To disagree with the gay lifestyle is not to hate. How is telling kids that if they disagree with the gay lifestyle they are homophobic or bigoted going to teach them tolerance and love for their neighbor?

[akhan727]

@beetlebabee:

Teaching kids about kindness and about the Golden Rule is essential but AVOIDING discussions on diversity or specific topics such as gays and lesbians is unwise. These lessons help kids feel familiar with gays and lesbians so they don't mistreat them in the future. Homophobia stems from ignorance and not knowing about gays and lesbians. As humans, when we become familiar with things unknown, actions based out of fear and hostility will most unlikely be used.

[akhan727]

@beetlebabee:

You also made a clear fallacy. None of the teachers in this film told any of the kids that they were "bigots" or "wrong" if they disagree with how gays or lesbians live their lives. These lessons are not about whether being gay is right or wrong but about he EXISTENCE of gays, lesbians, bisexuals, and transgendered in the world. The job of the teacher is to teach facts, not morality.

You obviously have not seen the film or have seen how these classroom discussions work.

[beetlebabee]

I have actually seen this film in its entirety, this clip is just the tip of the iceberg. "Indoctrination" is not too strong a word to describe what was going on with those classroom activities. Tolerance for differing ideas is not allowed in the classrooms shown. In fact, criticism of homosexuality was invariably equated with racism and ethnic bigotry. You may think that is ok if you share that view, but to those of differing views, it's highly inappropriate, especially for school children.

[akhan727]

"Indoctrination" is a word most used by those of the religious right. It is dramatic and over-the-top. I am sorry beetlebabee but I am not convinced that these classroom discussions and lessons do more harm than good. These classroom discussions are entirely appropriate for their age. Teaching kids not to mistreat minority groups while they're young is beneficial to the community at large. This subject clearly make you more uncomfortable than it does these kids. lol

[beetlebabee]

You have not answered the concerns of bias, you've only confirmed that you share them.  That's what's unconvincing. Where is the balance? The lack of balance is what makes this propaganda. The subject matter is a separate issue.

[asdfTambourine]

"In fact, criticism of homosexuality was invariably equated with racism and ethnic bigotry."

Shouldn't it be? That's a genuine question. I honestly see no difference. All forms of prejudice are wrong, and all spring from the same source: ignorance and fear of the other. Homophobia and racism are essentially the same thing, and I am yet to see any "criticism of homosexuality" which I would not call bigotry.

TRiG.

[beetlebabee]

"I am yet to see any "criticism of homosexuality" which I would not call bigotry."

Which is why parents don't want you teaching their children about kindness.

[beetlebabee]

"The job of the teacher is to teach facts, not morality." Again we agree completely except that this film does not limit itself to teaching about the existence of gays. There is not one example shown of a child who did not agree with the idea that the gay lifestyle was not OK where they weren't corrected or portrayed in an ugly light. The agenda of this film is to promote the idea that the gay lifestyle is ok, good, healthy, interesting, fun, acceptable etc. All other ideas are discouraged.

[beetlebabee]

And there was no acknowledgment of the fact that reasonable people who reject the gay agenda also reject "gay bashing," as well as the rock-throwing mentality it represents.

[akhan727]

The American Medical Association

The American Psychiatric Association

The American Psychological Association

The American Psychoanalytical Association

The American Academy of Pediatrics

and the National Association of Social Workers...

have all stated that homosexuality should not be treated as a mental disorder and that they oppose attempts at reparative or conversion therapy. And that sexual orientation is NOT a choice and CANNOT be changed.

I'd rather believe these guys than you.

[akhan727]

These so called "criticisms" of homosexuality, mostly backed by religious institutions, are a small minority within the scientific field. Sorry beetlebabee but gay is OK and science is clearly on the gay's side. I compare criticisms of homosexuality to criticisms of Evolution. Secularly, there is nothing wrong with living honestly as a gay person. Gay relationships are no more dangerous or safer than straight relationships. Honestly beetlebabee, I am not convinced.

[beetlebabee]

Science is very clearly not on "your side". Personally, I have no side. I'm just saying what is. This film pushes a one sided agenda. It is inappropriate for young children and most people would agree. That is why the gay marriage advocates in Maine are trying to convince people that this would never be shown in schools, but you've stated you think it's all good for schools and I believe you. You confirm what they deny. Thanks for your honesty.

[akhan727]

@beetlebabee:

Science is not on my side? I like how you make statements yet you don't back them up or even challenge the claims I have clearly made. Most people in the US still believe that Pluto is a planet but that doesn't make them correct beetlebabee. That is why we have evidence and scientific fact to support the claims we make. You have not used any evidence but your own prejudices and biases to support the claims you carelessly type out.

[beetlebabee]

Have you looked into the decision the APA made back in the 70's when they decided by vote that homosexuality was normal?

Did you catch that? They took a VOTE. lol. Not only that, but soon after they voted to decide that Pedophilia was normal too. They eventually went back on that one, but the organizations you cite are far from unbiased.

[akhan727]

Yah, those teams of highly educated professionals are ALL wrong and you are right. You got me! :)

[akhan727]

I could safely assume (based on your debate strategy and your faith) you also probably believe that the world is only 6,000 years old. lol

[akhan727]

Um, those gay marriage advocates are clarifying how the legalization of gay marriage has no effect on the state's education system. Your state's marriage laws and your state's education system are two completely separate establishments and do not relate or directly effect each other. Meaning, your state's department of education in your community decides what the kids learn, not the state's marriage laws. You have clearly not read into this.

Take the shame my friend. lol

[akhan727]

@beetlebabee:

Disagreeing with the gay lifestyle or thinking it is gross is NOT homophobic, but mistreating gays (e.g. teasing, making them feel unwanted, or treating them differently from their straight peers) because of this belief, IS.

[beetlebabee]

"Disagreeing with the gay lifestyle (is not wrong) but mistreating gays IS."

Absolutely. We agree on this point, in fact, why stop at gays? Why not say mistreating ANYONE is wrong? Which goes back to the point that if kindness is what is needed in the schoolyard, then teach kindness, not politicized social agendas.

[akhan727]

Your approach to teaching kindness is wishy-washy and aloof. You can tell kids to be kind all you want but not going into specifics will only limit their learning and end with ultimately insulting their intelligence. This has less to do with politics and more to do with humanitarianism. You find these classroom discussions threatening yet you don't clearly identify the consequences or the threat itself.

[akhan727]

Adults ages 18 to 30 overwhelmingly support gay rights while adults ages 65 and older overwhelmingly oppose gay rights. This issue is entirely generational. Unfortunately, my friend, you are in a losing battle. You are not going to convince the younger masses that OPENLY gay men and women are a threat to them, their families, or society.

[asdfTambourine]

"If kindness is what is needed in the schoolyard, then teach kindness, not politicized social agendas."

I have to take you up on this. It's fine in an ideal world to just "teach kindness", but we have to deal with the prejudices which actually exist. There's very little prejudice against people with brown eyes, so let's not bother discussing it. There is prejudice against gay people, so let's talk about this specifically. Homophobia and racism are the big issues, so let's talk about them.

T.

[beetlebabee]

unfortunately I don't trust your methods of teaching kindness via homophobia and racism training. The gay community has a hard time differentiating between actions and identity and is far too prone to teaching ideology rather than simple kindness.

[sanweng101]

There is no where in the video where the teacher is shown teaching kids to be Gay, they are teaching kids to be tolerant of gays because majority of hate crime comes from teenagers. They are teaching them about what gay people do in the bed and how wonderful it is so they should all try, they are saying how normal they are so stop bullying and beating them.

[beetlebabee]

I agree with you sanweng. You are exactly right.  In the process of saying "be kind to others" there is all this propaganda pushing kids to the conclusion you have already reached, that gay behavior is good. That's simply unmitigated propaganda. People need to know that this is what gay advocates are pushing in schools. Listen up Maine!

[glapenguin]

Propaganda? Seriously? Do you believe in a "gay agenda," too?

Just out of curiosity, how do you think homosexuality harm society?

[beetlebabee]

Propaganda: The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause, information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.

Agenda: a list, plan, outline, or the like, of things to be done, matters to be acted or voted upon, etc.

[beetlebabee]

Given the definitions is "It's Elementary" propaganda?

[beetlebabee]

...tolerance and acceptance should be actively petitioned for in the social sphere, including schools and including elementary schools.... from glapenguin

If that's not the gay agenda, what is?

[glapenguin]

I think you forgot a part.

"chiefly derogatory information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view"

I don't believe "It's Elementary" to be propaganda. I don't believe it's biased or misleading. I don't believe it to be political in nature, either.

[beetlebabee]

Do you believe "It's Elementary" to evenly show both sides of the issue? Or perhaps there is only one side and this isn't really a controversial film after all?

[glapenguin]

I don't believe there are multiple sides to discrimination. I fail to see any controversy.

[beetlebabee]

"I don't believe there are multiple sides to discrimination. " glapenguin, do you really mean to say that only people who disagree with you can discriminate? How convenient for you.

[glapenguin]

So you believe discrimination is a two-sided issue? Tell me when it's morally right. Go for it.

This documentary teaches acceptance. The opposite of acceptance is judgement. Judgement is discrimination. I don't support discrimination. It's wrong. It is black and white, cut and dry, wrong.

[beetlebabee]

Looking down on someone because of who they are is wrong. However you SHOULD look at their actions. That's where the choice is. If I say that I don't want my daughter hanging out with a known pedophile, I am perfectly ok with saying "That man is not someone you should hang out with." that's also discriminating. He's still a child of God, valued member of the human race etc. but his actions are what I look at and base my actions on.

[glapenguin]

You're comparing adults molesting children to gay relationships. I don't even know what to do with that correlation.

There is nothing wrong with someone acting on his or her sexual orientation. People have an inherent right to happiness and, for many people, having love and being loved is a happy thing, and, for all people, being accepted is a happy thing. Choosing to act otherwise, to pick your own morals over someone else's happiness, is selfish and cruel.

[BIitzed]

False analogy. You would not let your daughter hang out with a pedophile because we would obviously molest her. Gay people, on the other hand, have done nothing to earn your contempt and fear. You hate us, and try to cover it up with your religious beliefs. Sorry, but you can never justify hate with religion; there are plenty of Christians who don't discriminate against gays.

[asdfTambourine]

"gay behavior is good"

Well, there is no reason to believe otherwise (except for "My imaginary friend/the big fairy in the sky says so"). In the real world, there's nothing wrong with "gay behaviour" (whatever that ill-defined term might mean).

T.

[beetlebabee]

"there is no reason to believe otherwise"

unless of course you were to introduce facts into the equation... ;-) the gay lifestyle is not among the healthiest of choices out there.

[0240327502485]

You are delusional.

[beetlebabee]

And you my friend are more than welcome to believe that. You can insult me all you want, and it's ok. Were it true if the situation were flipped, that would take care of a lot of the concern people have with the normalization of homosexuality under special protection status. Some citizens are more equal than others. My criticisms are labeled as hate speech but yours are not. Did you hear about the guy who lost his job in MA for telling a lesbian woman he thought she was wrong? So Tolerant.

[rainbowheartgirl]

Beetle, the anti-gay campaigns in California and Maine lied to you. That's how they tricked people into voting Yes on 8, by implying that it meant children would be taught about gay people in school. But they lied. Prop 8 had nothing to do with schools. It's not illegal to teach about gay people in school, and it never has been. This documentary was filmed in 1993, 1994, and 1995. This was long before same-sex marriage was legal in any state.

[clevelandphil]

The yes on 8 played film of a teacher taking her students to a lesbian wedding. If the teacher hadn't taken them, the yes on 8 folks wouldn't have the pictures. KEEP YOUR AGENDAS AWAY FROM OUR KIDS. Despite what it says in the closing credits of "It's elementary", they are our chidren, NOT YOURS!!

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, excuse me, whose children are you talking about? Gay people have children too. Not everyone's parents are straight. I was raised by two gay dads myself, and I deserved to be treated equally. My brothers and I deserved to have a safe and comfortable school experience. So, you don't "own" the public schools and you don't "own" parenthood. As for the lesbian wedding, that was those students' teacher, and the parents *signed permission slips* for the children to attend the wedding.

[clevelandphil]

I pay for the schools and I am NOT paying for someone's whack agendas. KEEP YOUR AGENDAS AWAY FROM OUR CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, did you not read a word I typed? Gay and lesbian parents pay the *exact same amount of taxes* as straight parents do. You do not own the public schools. There are children from gay and lesbian families in school. There are also gay students in school. *Every* child deserves to have a safe and comfortable time at school. No child should be harassed or ignored or treated like they or their family is inferior. My only "agenda" is equality.

[clevelandphil]

You do NOT have the right to take my kids to a gay wedding in school. READING WRITING AND ARITHMETIC. Tnat's it!!!!

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, calm down. You're ranting. Did you just ignore all my previous comments? If you don't want your children to attend their teacher's wedding, then don't sign the permission slip. It's that simple. That trip was organized by a *parent* who wanted the children to go to their teacher's wedding.

[clevelandphil]

If you can gay agendas in school, then you should also have prayer. What's fair is fair.

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, you can have prayer in school, as long as it's not organized by the teachers. That's because government employees can't push one religion over another religion. Children of all religions attend public school, just like children from all kinds of families attend public school. It should be safe and comfortable for *all* kids. Children from Muslim families should be protected from harassment, just like children from gay families should be. Everyone should be equal.

[clevelandphil]

gay agendas are organized by teachers. BTW children from gay families are safe. No one said you had to be comfortable.

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, I don't think you're hearing me. There's no law against talking about gay people in school. However, there is a law against promoting one religion over another. That's why teachers can't force Christian (or Jewish or Hindu) prayers on their students. As for children from gay families, how do you know we're safe? I don't think we are in lots of cases. Many children are harassed and beaten up because other students think they're gay. And every child *deserves* to feel comfortable.

[clevelandphil]

Does you mom know you're using her computer?

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, I'm not a child. I own my own computer, thank you very much. I guess you couldn't think of anything else to say so you tried to disparage my (supposed) age? I'm in my 20s. I have two dads, but my brothers and I are adults. I don't think you really have any idea what you're talking about.

[clevelandphil]

You have two dads. It explains it all. You have truly been indoctrinated.

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, you obviously are hardly even bothering to *read* my comments. I mentioned that I had two dads the first time I posted to you. And, apparently, this means that I've been indoctrinated? Well, you can believe what you like, but I know that children are not born anti-gay. Children have to be taught to hate and fear and dislike gay people. Babies and toddlers don't care. When I was 3 years old, I couldn't have cared less that I had two dads. All that mattered was being taken care of.

[clevelandphil]

I saw on the news a gay man knock a little old woman down because she disagreed with him. There's a good teacher.

[rainbowheartgirl]

Cleveland, uh, what? What in the world are you talking about? You really don't seem to be able to focus on a single topic. You keep bringing in things out of left field, and then you don't even respond to anything I say. I have no idea who knocked a little old woman down or what it has to do with teachers.

[Bigpheet]

@rainbowheartgirl laughingly says: Babies and toddlers don't care. When I was 3 years old, I couldn't have cared less that I had two dads.

*

O' Dear! Are you blind or what?

[beetlebabee]

So, RHG, you believe homosexuality should be taught in the schools. My point exactly.

[rainbowheartgirl]

Beetle, I'm not following you. What do you mean "taught in schools?" You mean *mentioning" gay and lesbian people in schools? Because there's no law against that, and there never has been. There are kids with two moms and two dads who attend school, and those kids deserve to be treated fairly and deserve to feel safe and comfortable. Should kids of gay parents be muzzled and forbidden to talk about our parents? Should our teachers ignore our existence? That's ridiculous, and it's unfair.

[MrDalespy]

This is a great educational tool. Even those from NOM could learn something positive here, it's called tolerance.

[patrickometry]

Wonderful. Perhaps one day this documentary can be made free in its entirety to view and share. That would be a great public service given how timely this topic continues to be.

[beetlebabee]

Right, and then we can show it in our public schools as a means to propagandize other people's children. LOL. I guess we've come full circle.

[patrickometry]

beetlebabee you're world view is bizarre and backwards. To tell children that some people have a different skin color, native language, religion or sexual orientation is not propaganda. It's called education. Propaganda happens to children when they are taught to see the awesome diversity of nature as inferior and something to be feared. Propaganda happens to children when anti-gay supremacist perspectives are taught as normal rather than the immoral, warped, dehumanizing thing that they are.

[beetlebabee]

Exactly. I know how gay activists feel about this issue when they're busy being honest, but during the campaign in California and Maine, that was the one thing the opposition camps both swore up and down was not on the agenda. That was the original comment I had at the beginning of this discussion. SSM does in fact lead to the teaching of homosexuality in schools. I thank you for your honesty.

[patrickometry]

Anti-gay supremacist opposition forces propagandized implicitly that children would be taught the specifics of sex, as if there would be targeted gay sex classes for young children. That of course is a bald faced lie but a useful one for fear mongers and demagogues. So thank you for allowing me to once again point out the obvious: expanding marriage to include gay people, just as when Jim Crow laws were dismantled, drives supremacists hysterical as they watch another scapegoat taken from them.

[rainbowheartgirl]

Beetle still doesn't get it. SSM doesn't lead to talking about gay issues in school. She fails to understand that it's never been illegal to talk about homosexuality in school, and this documentary was filmed before SSM was legal anywhere in the U.S. The people who voted in Maine were under the (false) impression, having been lied to, that their vote would have something to do with school curriculum, when of course there are still gay students and kids of gay parents in Maine schools.

[Bulleadzcc]

@patrickometry Thank youuuu ! i was getting sick reading aggressive homophobic comments on such videos , glad to read sensible, respectful words !