read isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth-
The original word is chug. The cognate verb means "to draw a circle." The noun means horizon -- circle which defines the edge of your vision. It is extremely interpretive to nderstand the term as orb or sphere. In Hebrew aslo have similar word Dur but it's to show object from FOV (as if you see it from outside). The word chug show that you are inside the Dur.
Early Egyptians and Mesopotamians thought the world was a flat disk floating in the ocean. The Hebrew Bible uses language consistent with this belief:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth"
- Note, the word circle is used, not sphere.
"For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world."
"You shall not make [...] likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
I don't know of many christians hanging their faith on whether or not the Bible conforms to science. I think the argument you make is one that you have been taught by alleged philisophical scholars. You haven't uncovered anything new or profound. Science attempts to explain and repeat what is observable. Its a pointless discussion on either side of the debate. Have a nice day.
Even if the Bible did state the Earth was a sphere it would still be useless. Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth (300 BC). And the idea of knowing the Earth was a circle is also useless because one can just look at the Sun & Moon & conclude "Hey! Our world is also a circle".
Luke 17:34-35 That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. = asleep on one side of the world + awake and working at the same time on the other
Isaiah was talking in metaphor. Elam does not mean Iran, would say Babylon, Iran was not around, it could very well mean India, Island of the sea, could mean Australia, or new Zealand, or England, Greeks were not strong, don't put in ur interloping, ur not a sage. one more thing, we consider the five books of Moses as the Bible, all else is Commentary
lets see, if u build a house as u say "flat" then genesis should of said G-D created the "earth and the heavens" yet it says the "heavens and the earth" u theory is poof. G-D created the "pillers" where the earth would sit, unmovable from were it place, evean as it goes around the sun, every year the same amount of time, not one second more or less. u just don't get it, don't delve into our sphere.
look up the dictonary by R. Alcalay the word is "sphere" just as sky and heavans have the same hebrew word so might this, but that would no prove your point. the Stone Edition of Isaiah and Rasi, (Torah comentator, in the 1100) called it a sphere. or more so a "circumfrence" u nit pix take word out of their sentances you luny, Go to Genesis u'll see the torah meets science, if u can
I agree on every other point but a tent doesn't have to have four corners. In fact many nomads use tents that have more likely eight or more corners or no corners at all like in a yurta...
i love your video regarding to christians and reading the bible... your arguments are fair, but how can they be balanced if you ignore this verse: He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing..job 26:7
your reference to the tent and pillars is unequivocally challenged by this verse singlehandedly... we must reconsider the metaphors, unless you accept that the bible is poorly is misguidedly written.
@micap20078 dumb people need to learn how to talk =) ..."you used to christian"....."need wake up" neither of these sentences are proper sentences and even if you don't speak English; you should learn the language before you speak it.
Good video, just a small point, the bit in Matthew doesn't say ALL the kingdoms of the world, I know it's sort of implied but to stress that would be to misrepresent it slightly (a dastardly Christian trick!). As in, i can show you the cars in my garage, but they may not necessarily be ALL the cars in my garage, some could be in the back.... bit of a loose point i know haha
Oh, and since you violated Godwin's Law first by bringing it up, I should point out that Hitler was a Christian and furthermore, his atrocities were inspired by Christian hatred and persecution of Jews, gays and Gypsies through history.
The only way there can be any coherent distance from "the East" to "the West" is if these are fixed points (i.e. edges of the world). If the world is a sphere, there is no "east" or "west" except as relative directions and so measuring the distance between them is an absurdity, even in a metaphoric way. It certainly doesn't prove the author intended to imply knowledge of a spherical earth.
The Isaiah quote says "circle", not "sphere". Furthermore, it offers a metaphor of a tent as the relation between earth and the sky. The earth is the ground of the tent and the sky is the tarp above it. That indicates a flat earth with the circle being the visable horizon.
The other verse you cite also works with a flat earth. There can only be distance from east and west if the earth is flat. Otherwise, they overlap.
if you whant to know if jews belive the world was flat you have to look in the talmud it explains the world is round thats funny that it would be there because the talmud (oral laws)
I disagree with the isaiaih verse. God was simply saying that he will collect his people from the lands where they've been dispersed to. He then goes on to say the four corners of the earth as a reference to the fact that his people were coming from those directions. Therefore, i would disagree that it's an indicator the earth was flat according to the Bible, not that i'm a believer or anything.
Btw, I have 7 children, a job that consumes about 80 hours a week and I'm not a half-baked Christian apologist. I'm not even 1/8th baked--I have no credentials and a secondary school diploma (barely). I have to go to bed. My lack of response to anything you write is an answer to natures call, not retreat. It is the duty of Christians to defend the Faith. I've done that tonight and it's enough for the time being.
You're not undoing Christianity. You're attacking the principles of fundamentalist Christianity who insist on literal interpretation of all scripture-which is ridiculous. The R. C. Church can accept the possibility that Evolution is true and it changes nothing about their theology or dogma. Fund. Chr. has existed for about 120 years and received infamous repute at the Scopes Monkey Trial. You pretend to attack Christianity but instead attack something that has little history and no credibility.
There's another option. The Bible is the Word of God and is not a book of science or geography or many other things you impose. It was intended to be read by Christians. I presume you're a Theist. Go ahead and read the bible and come to all manner of false conclusions. That is, after all, what you desire.
A half-baked Christian apologist would pulverize your arguments in an open forum
"Skeptic Seminary"? May I suggest rather: Skeptic Kindergarten.
QUOTE: "The Bible is the Word of God and is not a book of science or geography or many other things you impose."
The Word of God WOULD be a book of science, rationality, morality and spirituality. The Bible is none of the above.
QUOTE: "A half-baked Christian apologist would pulverize your arguments in an open forum"
All are welcome to post on the forum on the site I've linked to. Response videos are also welcome. Any challenges on any other forum I will not shy away from.
Quote: " The Word of God WOULD be a book of science, rationality, morality and spirituality. The Bible is none of the above."
I've already agreed it's not a book of science. You're reading what I post, are you comprehending what I write? When you mention and pretend to tackle the other topics listed you fail to address my primary contention: That being--you presume, rashly, that Christianity is expressed solely through fundamentalist principles. Can you not address that first, without "horns?
QUOTE: "I have already addressed that". Would you draw my attention to precisely where "that" was addressed? Other wise, I'll have no rational option than to conclude I'm not engaged in an argument but instead a fight wherein it was never your intent to arrive at a reasonable conclusion by means of the exchange of ideas. You skirt the issue.
Answer me- please: ARE you
or ARE you NOT attacking FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity and deceitfully MISREPRESENTING all Christianity in so doing?
QUOTE: "I've already agreed it's not a book of science."
Then you also agree it's not the Word. Or did you not read my response?
QUOTE: "ARE you
or ARE you NOT attacking FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity and deceitfully MISREPRESENTING all Christianity in so doing?"
I'm attacking the Bible. This is the heart of Christianity. Fundamentalist Christianity is pure Christianity. Moderate Christianity is watered down by modernity, science and imagination.
The idea that the people in the 1st century and before all thought the earth was flat is wrong. People have known the earth is a sphere since before the bible was written. The ancient Egyptians even had an estimation of the size of the earth that was pretty accurate. The fact that the bible gets it o wrong shows how ignorant the writers of the bible were even for that time.
This is true ancient Sumerians had drawings that show the planets and earth as round based on the observation of the moon and sun , they are both round so i guess we are too , not hard to understand that, even back then.
The ancient Jews were lousy astronomers too, They used a lunar based calender. They avoided travel on the Great Sea, unlike her neighbours and for this reason they were no catographers and had little idea of the larger world. They had no aspiration to great architecture either. In fact, their culture was relatively dry, their population always insignificant.
How then do you account for their presence on the world stage for centuries? I reason Gods covenant, His Law, the Prophets and Christ.
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Or they did not exist for century's. There mythology's was stolen from other older cultures and they just tacked monotheism onto them. Or they didn't tack monotheism onto it as if you actually read the old testament you'd find that is in fact polytheistic mythology's, monotheism could have came about late on the scene.
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And if Yahweh was on their side, why did they get so many things wrong? If a god actually supported them shouldn't they have knowledge that they could not have gained?
I noticed that there was a country missing from the map of the four corners. Hint: It's the country that is surrounded by all of the other lands that where described.
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i'm atheist but the bible got it right.
the four corners mean E,W,S,N
read isaiah 40:22 He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth-
The original word is chug. The cognate verb means "to draw a circle." The noun means horizon -- circle which defines the edge of your vision. It is extremely interpretive to nderstand the term as orb or sphere. In Hebrew aslo have similar word Dur but it's to show object from FOV (as if you see it from outside). The word chug show that you are inside the Dur.
midliong 2 months ago
Early Egyptians and Mesopotamians thought the world was a flat disk floating in the ocean. The Hebrew Bible uses language consistent with this belief:
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth"
- Note, the word circle is used, not sphere.
"For the foundations of the earth are the LORD's; upon them he has set the world."
"You shall not make [...] likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."
500 char. summary :)
OpinionatedAussie 4 months ago
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OpinionatedAussie 4 months ago
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OpinionatedAussie 4 months ago
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OpinionatedAussie 4 months ago
I feel dirty for laughing at that 'dad joke'- "everyone wanted a cushy job". Great vid though.
Parabol0086 7 months ago
@Parabol0086 I'm such a dork sometimes. Sorry about that. :)
DeistPaladin 7 months ago
@DeistPaladin
Haha. Peace mate.
Parabol0086 7 months ago
I don't know of many christians hanging their faith on whether or not the Bible conforms to science. I think the argument you make is one that you have been taught by alleged philisophical scholars. You haven't uncovered anything new or profound. Science attempts to explain and repeat what is observable. Its a pointless discussion on either side of the debate. Have a nice day.
AschersOil 7 months ago
If it is a fact is literal if it is wrong is a metaphors
pochopaz7381 7 months ago
Isaiah 22:18 says, 'He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country.'
If they knew the earth was spherical, why wouldn't they use the word 'ball' instead of 'circle' to describe the shape of the earth?
elevenway 8 months ago
Even if the Bible did state the Earth was a sphere it would still be useless. Aristotle provided physical and observational arguments supporting the idea of a spherical Earth (300 BC). And the idea of knowing the Earth was a circle is also useless because one can just look at the Sun & Moon & conclude "Hey! Our world is also a circle".
JesusACruz64 8 months ago
@JesusACruz64 That and looking at the horizon in all directions gives the impression of standing in the middle of a circle.
DeistPaladin 8 months ago
he should convert to islam---they have the answers to the questions
mtl009 9 months ago
@mtl009 Answers, but not good answers...
vintis88 8 months ago
65 Flat earth society members got angry...
enysp 10 months ago
Metaphors, easy to say when you don't hold the position of that time.
SQuiRR3LM0nk3y 1 year ago
Luke 17:34-35 That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. Two women will be grinding flour together at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. = asleep on one side of the world + awake and working at the same time on the other
billenh 1 year ago
Leviticus 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard. / we have 2 dimensional heads?
billenh 1 year ago
Id say Ecclesiastes 1:5 is proof of how they thought.
autopsy87 1 year ago
Excellent video. I believe in the Religion of science.
HiddenAdept 1 year ago
Was that a cat I heard at 1:09?
ZShogan 1 year ago
ISLAM
aldomovielovers 1 year ago
Isaiah was talking in metaphor. Elam does not mean Iran, would say Babylon, Iran was not around, it could very well mean India, Island of the sea, could mean Australia, or new Zealand, or England, Greeks were not strong, don't put in ur interloping, ur not a sage. one more thing, we consider the five books of Moses as the Bible, all else is Commentary
sailor4991 1 year ago
Now, if you have a bone of honesty you surly should have a doubt
sailor4991 1 year ago
lets see, if u build a house as u say "flat" then genesis should of said G-D created the "earth and the heavens" yet it says the "heavens and the earth" u theory is poof. G-D created the "pillers" where the earth would sit, unmovable from were it place, evean as it goes around the sun, every year the same amount of time, not one second more or less. u just don't get it, don't delve into our sphere.
sailor4991 1 year ago
look up the dictonary by R. Alcalay the word is "sphere" just as sky and heavans have the same hebrew word so might this, but that would no prove your point. the Stone Edition of Isaiah and Rasi, (Torah comentator, in the 1100) called it a sphere. or more so a "circumfrence" u nit pix take word out of their sentances you luny, Go to Genesis u'll see the torah meets science, if u can
sailor4991 1 year ago
I agree on every other point but a tent doesn't have to have four corners. In fact many nomads use tents that have more likely eight or more corners or no corners at all like in a yurta...
ThePavezzi 1 year ago
i love your video regarding to christians and reading the bible... your arguments are fair, but how can they be balanced if you ignore this verse: He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing..job 26:7
your reference to the tent and pillars is unequivocally challenged by this verse singlehandedly... we must reconsider the metaphors, unless you accept that the bible is poorly is misguidedly written.
SoCal4LifeSD 1 year ago
ahaha i used to christian but find this so funny. religious people need wake up!
micap20078 2 years ago
@micap20078 dumb people need to learn how to talk =) ..."you used to christian"....."need wake up" neither of these sentences are proper sentences and even if you don't speak English; you should learn the language before you speak it.
DarkJoker7 1 year ago
@DarkJoker7 your even dumber for mocking a dyslexic person proud of yourself?
micap20078 1 year ago
@micap20078 very ;)
DarkJoker7 1 year ago
I think at the time, so did they care much about the earth is flat or round,
they were probably busy cutting each other into mincemeat, and they used religious stance as an excuse.
usfhuhrwh2440 2 years ago
Good video, just a small point, the bit in Matthew doesn't say ALL the kingdoms of the world, I know it's sort of implied but to stress that would be to misrepresent it slightly (a dastardly Christian trick!). As in, i can show you the cars in my garage, but they may not necessarily be ALL the cars in my garage, some could be in the back.... bit of a loose point i know haha
88pandemonium88 2 years ago
Even the sun and moon were not spheres; they were discs set against the dome of the "firmament".
Lohitaksha 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Amen
leeroy956 2 years ago
Do tell. Chapter and verse, please.
Oh, and since you violated Godwin's Law first by bringing it up, I should point out that Hitler was a Christian and furthermore, his atrocities were inspired by Christian hatred and persecution of Jews, gays and Gypsies through history.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
The only way there can be any coherent distance from "the East" to "the West" is if these are fixed points (i.e. edges of the world). If the world is a sphere, there is no "east" or "west" except as relative directions and so measuring the distance between them is an absurdity, even in a metaphoric way. It certainly doesn't prove the author intended to imply knowledge of a spherical earth.
Good try, though.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
The Isaiah quote says "circle", not "sphere". Furthermore, it offers a metaphor of a tent as the relation between earth and the sky. The earth is the ground of the tent and the sky is the tarp above it. That indicates a flat earth with the circle being the visable horizon.
The other verse you cite also works with a flat earth. There can only be distance from east and west if the earth is flat. Otherwise, they overlap.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
talmud is as old as the torha
zinnblack 2 years ago
if you whant to know if jews belive the world was flat you have to look in the talmud it explains the world is round thats funny that it would be there because the talmud (oral laws)
zinnblack 2 years ago
I disagree with the isaiaih verse. God was simply saying that he will collect his people from the lands where they've been dispersed to. He then goes on to say the four corners of the earth as a reference to the fact that his people were coming from those directions. Therefore, i would disagree that it's an indicator the earth was flat according to the Bible, not that i'm a believer or anything.
Moussyed 2 years ago
Btw, I have 7 children, a job that consumes about 80 hours a week and I'm not a half-baked Christian apologist. I'm not even 1/8th baked--I have no credentials and a secondary school diploma (barely). I have to go to bed. My lack of response to anything you write is an answer to natures call, not retreat. It is the duty of Christians to defend the Faith. I've done that tonight and it's enough for the time being.
I wish you well. Good night.
gondolacrescent5 2 years ago
You're not undoing Christianity. You're attacking the principles of fundamentalist Christianity who insist on literal interpretation of all scripture-which is ridiculous. The R. C. Church can accept the possibility that Evolution is true and it changes nothing about their theology or dogma. Fund. Chr. has existed for about 120 years and received infamous repute at the Scopes Monkey Trial. You pretend to attack Christianity but instead attack something that has little history and no credibility.
gondolacrescent5 2 years ago
There are two options:
1. The Bible IS the Word of God.
2. The Bible IS NOT the Word of God.
There is no "sorta kinda" option.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
Did I suggest a "sorda kinda" option?
There's another option. The Bible is the Word of God and is not a book of science or geography or many other things you impose. It was intended to be read by Christians. I presume you're a Theist. Go ahead and read the bible and come to all manner of false conclusions. That is, after all, what you desire.
A half-baked Christian apologist would pulverize your arguments in an open forum
"Skeptic Seminary"? May I suggest rather: Skeptic Kindergarten.
gondolacrescent5 2 years ago 2
QUOTE: "The Bible is the Word of God and is not a book of science or geography or many other things you impose."
The Word of God WOULD be a book of science, rationality, morality and spirituality. The Bible is none of the above.
QUOTE: "A half-baked Christian apologist would pulverize your arguments in an open forum"
All are welcome to post on the forum on the site I've linked to. Response videos are also welcome. Any challenges on any other forum I will not shy away from.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
Quote: " The Word of God WOULD be a book of science, rationality, morality and spirituality. The Bible is none of the above."
I've already agreed it's not a book of science. You're reading what I post, are you comprehending what I write? When you mention and pretend to tackle the other topics listed you fail to address my primary contention: That being--you presume, rashly, that Christianity is expressed solely through fundamentalist principles. Can you not address that first, without "horns?
gondolacrescent5 2 years ago
QUOTE: "you presume, rashly, that Christianity is expressed solely through fundamentalist principles"
I have already addressed that. There is no other coherent position aside from (1) the Bible IS the Word and (2) the Bible is NOT the Word.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
QUOTE: "I have already addressed that". Would you draw my attention to precisely where "that" was addressed? Other wise, I'll have no rational option than to conclude I'm not engaged in an argument but instead a fight wherein it was never your intent to arrive at a reasonable conclusion by means of the exchange of ideas. You skirt the issue.
Answer me- please: ARE you
or ARE you NOT attacking FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity and deceitfully MISREPRESENTING all Christianity in so doing?
gondolacrescent5 2 years ago
QUOTE: "I've already agreed it's not a book of science."
Then you also agree it's not the Word. Or did you not read my response?
QUOTE: "ARE you
or ARE you NOT attacking FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity and deceitfully MISREPRESENTING all Christianity in so doing?"
I'm attacking the Bible. This is the heart of Christianity. Fundamentalist Christianity is pure Christianity. Moderate Christianity is watered down by modernity, science and imagination.
DeistPaladin 2 years ago
We were a big Jewish Snow Globe!
ericpao81 2 years ago
I thought you just took information/inspiration from godvsthebible. kudos for the website.
anglaismoyen 2 years ago
The idea that the people in the 1st century and before all thought the earth was flat is wrong. People have known the earth is a sphere since before the bible was written. The ancient Egyptians even had an estimation of the size of the earth that was pretty accurate. The fact that the bible gets it o wrong shows how ignorant the writers of the bible were even for that time.
solitarycanislupus 2 years ago
This is true ancient Sumerians had drawings that show the planets and earth as round based on the observation of the moon and sun , they are both round so i guess we are too , not hard to understand that, even back then.
ericpao81 2 years ago
The ancient Jews were lousy astronomers too, They used a lunar based calender. They avoided travel on the Great Sea, unlike her neighbours and for this reason they were no catographers and had little idea of the larger world. They had no aspiration to great architecture either. In fact, their culture was relatively dry, their population always insignificant.
How then do you account for their presence on the world stage for centuries? I reason Gods covenant, His Law, the Prophets and Christ.
gondolacrescent5 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Or they did not exist for century's. There mythology's was stolen from other older cultures and they just tacked monotheism onto them. Or they didn't tack monotheism onto it as if you actually read the old testament you'd find that is in fact polytheistic mythology's, monotheism could have came about late on the scene.
solitarycanislupus 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
And if Yahweh was on their side, why did they get so many things wrong? If a god actually supported them shouldn't they have knowledge that they could not have gained?
solitarycanislupus 2 years ago
kushy job, lol, that was good, i love your dry sense of humor, much love and respect. thanks for being a great resourse for the youtube freethinkers.
freethinker3161 2 years ago
I noticed that there was a country missing from the map of the four corners. Hint: It's the country that is surrounded by all of the other lands that where described.
LthrnZack 2 years ago
*The name of a country*, I do remember seeing the outline of the land.
LthrnZack 2 years ago
"Cushy job"
Har har har
LennyBound 2 years ago