Alexander Petrov - Making of... p2

[brettknoss]

Does Alexandre Petrov use rotoscoping for his animation? I find his people stiff and the type of cartoon animation done by Disney to be more lively but this method more fluid than the Disney ink and paint and looks more like a painting. I really like the 30 second Coca Cola ad Sundblom Santa.

[o82774]

Your point is well taken. BUT it doesn't exclude mine. You have definitely made it clear that Anime as an industry takes MUCH greater pains to encourage SUPPORT and ENCOURAGE the creativity of their best animators. TRUE.

Yet this does not mean this support has translated to a wide array of styles. It hasn't. In the west few industries are more creatively stifling than animation. Its a joke. YET the range of styles present in the west still far exceed the range in the east (on a certain level)

[AlekseyVinogradov]

супер...

[o82774]

"do you think japanese animators or americans don't use computer animation softwares in order to create movement??"

EXACTLY. I sincerely commend you on your exteremly keen and astute powers of oservation.

This is why anime and american animation is creatively handicapped also (despite my fondness for it). BUT these forms are not NEARLY dependent on copyism as Petrov. Also giving instructions to an actor is not necessarily creative. CREATING the actor with a drawing is creative.

[o82774]

I did not say he is not technically adept or that he is not a hard worker. He is both of those things. But he is not that creative. If he was he would be able to CREATE moving forms from his IMAGINATION not merley appropriate them with a camera. You are correct. Without his camera to COPY and TRACE existing forms Petrrov would NEVER be able to produce anything even in a million years. His talents and creativity are limited. It looks nice but it is FAR from creative genius.

[o82774]

He's rotoscoping!

His technique is remarkable but that tracing actor's performances stuff is VERY uncreative. The very antithesis of artistic. I would like to see him truly create human movement FROM HIS MIND. THAT is the true level of a MASTER.

[awetik]

He's not really rotoscoping, he using actors to study movement, and there is no artist in the world who can make perfect movement without of using models for it, from mind is never the real movement

[o82774]

Actually he is rotoscoping. He literally traces/paints over captured filmed frames on glass. What is "perfect movement"? From the mind comes creative movement. Creativity not copying is highest level of artisitry. Some animators do this. The weak ones do not. You need to be able to draw to do this. Petrov cannot draw so he traces. It looks traced and artificial. Like it's trying to be film. It's impressive but ultimately not very creative.

[awetik]

How can you say it's not creative? In art is not about how it made or what you use to create something, but what you create. What this man do, is great artistic work, all is about the final results, which is great. And even if he rotoscoping, he direct the actors and create images, so it's very creative and he is a MASTER. I'm curios what you do? most of the time who give that kind of critique, is one who cant do anything and heva no talents.

[o82774]

Firstly...Chill out. Did I personally insult you? No need for personal attacks. Lets be mature here.

Creativity is measured by what the artist creates from THEIR mind. Sure this work is ingenius  but not very creative. None of the forms in his films are drawn from his creative imagination and understanding of form. His forms are dervative of what he traces. His process depends on existing forms he can appropriate. Imitative derivative yes. Creative ...not so much.

[XJerzuX]

@o82774

Oh and one thing poped up in my mind: what when an artist uses a model for refference?:) His work is less creative when he does so? Let's just throw Michelangelo to the dumpster then :) By the way Petrov isn't using any backprojection when he's painting the motion, so it isn't rotoscope. He only takes the footage as refference. Read a little about Dave Fleischer and his invention ,and how it worked :)

Like i said you've got no point here.

[o82774]

@XJerzuX

You are ABSOLUTELY correct. An artist using a model for reference is DEFINITELY less creative. Many feel the renaissance artists are overrated for this reason alone. For centuries the use of the camera obscura and the camera lucida (ancient projectors) by "masters" was kept hidden in order to make them seem better than they were.

Petrov is not "merely" referencing. He is COPYING every bit of form in his animation AND is tracing using a customized projection method to do so.

[XJerzuX]

@o82774

sorry but i don't think you've got any argument on that here. using the rotoscope technique dosn't make anyones work less or more creative, it's just a (like i said) a technique to achive an certain artistic effect. Just another screwdriver in the toolbox....Oh and i'm sure that Petrov can draw, my friend :))) bad choice of words i guess.

[o82774]

@XJerzuX

But it does make it less creative. Greatly so.

There is a world of difference between CREATING form from scatch and REITERATING PREFABRICATED form through tracing or copying or referencing. Both takes skill but doing it without reference is a whole other level.

I'm not sure Petrov can draw. He's a great copyist though. He's got a sexy technique but without actual drawing it is exactly as you called it , an "artistic EFFECT". Not actual art.

[XJerzuX]

@o82774

Hah an camera obscura in Leonardo's studio dosn't schock as refference photos found at Renoirs place :) Imagine the faces of art historians when they found that out :) Yet the usage of refference materials still leves a great space for creativity. All in all the painting does not resemble a photo. It's something like a scene 'rendered' through the individual style of the artist. (Of course unless you're a hiperrealist ;)

[XJerzuX]

@o82774

If you only do stuff from scrach ,you'll end up copying the same schemes over and over in some point. You like anime huh?(not a big fan myself but,let's give it as an example) Look how Hayao Miyazaki is copying the same pattern of face designs in every movie. It's not becouse he can't draw or anything. It's becouse he's drawing (as we polish say) only from his head with no life drawing. Sorry for being a 'comment archeologist' since the conversation was a while ago, but i was concerned.

[o82774]

@XJerzuX

GREAT POINT.

Exactly. Doing something from your head is not being CREATIVE if you are simply COPYING a style based on memory you are merely "mentally tracing" pre-fabricated forms. "Cartoonists" and animators who use cartooning styles have this problem. I am an anime connoisseur but will be the first to admit it fails creatively. I do feel that cartoonists who "copy" their own style from memory get a pass though. But certainly those who can innovate new ones are the true masters.

[RaymondoPerson]

@o82774 lol @ unironically calling yourself an "anime connoisseur"

and how does anime "fail creatively"? it has some serious issues with recycled character design, but on the other hand it's the only (as far as I know) animation industry that very commonly treats its individual key animators as artists even in mainstream tv productions.

[o82774]

@RaymondoPerson

Ok fail is too strong a word. I do have a deep appreciation for the medium but it really has a limited repertoire of drawing styles, timing, disciplines (no stop-motion anime to my knowledge). Think of western animation's COUNTLESS range of styles apparent in indie animation. EVERY animator practically has their own style (then the get jobs and conform lol). There is no asian equivalent to indie animation. BUT as pure draughtsmanship goes anime is the king by far.

[RaymondoPerson]

@o82774 "There is no asian equivalent to indie animation" yeah there is but I don't really keep an eye out for that stuff so I can't name any off the top of my head. maybe they don't have big names like we do (or maybe they do, I dunno) but I'm sure it exists

"Think of western animation's COUNTLESS range of styles apparent in indie animation. EVERY animator practically has their own style" this applies to Japanese animation too, to a HUGE extent. you claim that you appreciate it but...

[RaymondoPerson]

@o82774 (continued) ..you have very little knowledge of the Japanese animation industry. in the west, people like Bill Plympton have to animate entire movies on their own and be "indie animators" to be able to have an auteur appeal to their work. meanwhile in Japan, not only does every really talented animator have their own style, THEY ARE ALSO ALLOWED TO FREELY USE IT WHILE DOING KEY ANIMATION FOR MAINSTREAM KIDS SHOWS if the animation director is good enough (and there are tons of good ones)

[RaymondoPerson]

@o82774 (continued AGAIN) many people like Masaaki Yuasa (the guy who made Mind Game, which Bill Plympton called "the Citizen Kane of animation") got their start working on extremely popular childrens' shows like Crayon Shin Chan and Chibi Maruko-chan and were allowed to do a lot of gorgeous, outstanding and unique segments for those shows back in the early 90s. today, even otherwise mediocre manga adaptations like One Piece and Naruto allow creative animators to go wild in certain episodes.

[RaymondoPerson]

@o82774 for good examples of this, do a youtube search for "sakuga" or go to Catsuka's (google it) videos section, than "MAD/Sakuga". they're fan made music videos that show off individual animators' styles, often shown in very manistream productions.

the downside to this is that American anime fans downplay this aspect because they think there is no such thing as going intentionally off-model and having a unique animation style so they label unique key animation as bad or a 'mistake'

[o82774]

@RaymondoPerson

Thanks. Even a connoisseur can be schooled. My area of expertise is really in identifying essential and nuanced qualities in the drawing styles of mainstream anime I have been exposed to. As you pointed out there is more to anime than the mainstream. Idefinitley will look up the workes you hipped me to. Thanks for taking the time to educate.

I still maintain (in quasi ignorance) that indie anime is way less prolific in the anime universe. Its good to know it exists though

[RaymondoPerson]

@o82774 my point wasn't about indie anime but about how a lot of mainstream anime gives animators tons of freedom to use their individual styles

you said that every indie animator in the west has a unique style; in Japan, even mainstream commercial animators for kids' shows are treated as artists and allowed to stray from their given storyboards if the animation director likes creativity. and it's very common, as I said even the most popular shows have unique animators work on important scenes

[MangustALI]

Тяжелая работа!

Hard work!

[BelarusianLawyer]

At numerous requests - see

"Alexander Petrov - Making of_Part 1 (ENGLISH subtitles)"

part 1

[vitalvital98]

гений планеты земля...

[njvlad]

I don't know anybody else who is capable of producing this kind of brilliant work. Petrov deserves a monument. Bravo!!!

[2cl83]

fantastic work!

[giderclay]

Bravo!!! Excellent!! 5 stars!!

[KeikoMoon]

It is realy great master!

[aritmiya]

огромное спасибо!

[miraclepd1]

Спасибо большое за видео. Петров - гений.

[yanndick]

too bad i don't speak russian at all...

[Niffiwan]

@yanndick I translated both parts on my channel.

[yanndick]

@Niffiwan

Thank you very very much !! 

[pavlovich74]

Wow! So interesting to see such a master at work.