Ron Paul CPAC 2008

[Ewilds]

Remember when Republicans took control of Congress in 1994 the big issue was fiscal conservatism -- cutting spending and balancing spending. Why is the debt/deficit no longer an issue? Did it go away? No, Republicans have dropped the issue because spying on innocent Americans and killing innocent Arabs is more important.

[MMadmike]

Noticed Dr Paul is not reading from a teleprompter like the others. Small truths expose his amazing character.

Ron Paul my President.

[huckin08]

This guy really needs a speech writer. A true coservative should take a good long look at Huckabee.

[xsleef]

This guy could have saved us from huge govt.only one with a plan to fix the economy,to bad so many ppl believe the media (corprates same ppl that have corrupted out govt)thanks for giving America over to the facist!

[LetFreedomRlng]

YouTube:

Ron Paul A New Hope

[pmwjmj]

ron paul is excellent

[anthonylilja]

Ron Paul is the ONLY viable candidate on either side of the paradigm. And he is the ONLY HOPE for America. To HELL with the NAU and the idea of one-world government. America was once great and will be again!

[MrRezister]

Wait, you mean Paul's not dead yet? Listening to the news this morning, there was no mention that anyone other than McCain and Huckabee were even possible candidates on the R side. Screw them. I'm proud to have voted for a real conservative.

[April4th1984]

The establishment will ultimately lose. Ron Paul has taught us that there is another way. What he has begun, cannot be stopped. Get on board the fight for Liberty. America needs you.

[geodan2k]

How to win?

We continue to organize. WE DEMAND RESULTS.

We issue our demands through grass-roots organizations and/or, when they finally begin to listen, through official state paths.

We build desperately needed confidence and courage into our state, such that we regain absolute soverign control of our destinies, and of Wash., DC.

Get your representatives thinking conservative ... or get new representatives, both at the state and federal levels.

Do it now! THAT is how we win.

[thedudeabides76]

Great speech, too bad 24hr news couldnt find time to air it. Not that I saw anyway, I could be wrong, but I dont think so. I saw romney and McCains speeches though. If Paul got the exposure and realized that terror was for real, he would be a front runner. How it originated doesnt matter, its there and has to be recognised as a threat.

[pokemaul2k4]

His stance is to decentralize the government which includes delegating the choice of abortion to the states. Its complicated, yet he has mentioned that there is a double standard within the laws that if someone kills a pregnant woman (and that counts for those few cells right after conception) it is considered murdering two people. According to that reasoning, the ambiguity of classification should not rely on whether or not the parents want to take responsibility for that life.

[FreedomHooter]

Romney gone. 11-started, 3-left. Can't see how the Big-5 Multi-Conglomerate Corporate Medias can continue censoring Ron Paul. Any ideas on how to get to them? -FreedomHooter

[masterpxsaskatoon]

It's too late now...... Even if Ron Paul got 100% of the vote in all the remaining states he still probably would get screwed!

[Dannyjjango]

bottom line even if ron paul becomes the president

someone will assasinate him...and maybe its better for him to not to be nominated for his safety

[thedudeabides76]

I doubt it. Congress will just block everything he trys to do. Then override any vetos he attempts. The president is useless without congressional support.

[luckyday24]

Good to see Dr. Paul's still going strong!! I don't care if he's on the ballot or not. I'm writing him in!

Ron Paul 2008

[Shohadaku]

His abortion stance is also so tiny compaired to how important his Constitutional stance is. America needs to wake up.

[IPumbleNinjas]

How many people do you think have an abortion purely on the choice of lifestyle and economics? What's changing people's love for life is this twisted fabricated 'reality' most are sleep walking in.

Restore freedom. Restore status of living (within our means, no more gluteny). Remove your TV and all the negatives that pervert your life, and the appreciation for love and life will come back.

And no, I'm not religious. I'm just a rational human being.

[Dannyjjango]

amen

stop focusing on bullshit issues and people should focus on real issues

[Shohadaku]

Pauls stance on Abortion is he believes States should have the power to decide. Also realize he delivered over 4000 babies. He once explained of a time in Med school when he witnessed a late term abortion. Having to ignore the fact they threw a crying baby into the garbage.

[marcosdoliva]

It is illegal to throw a crying baby into the garbage. Lungs are not even developed during the timeframe which abortion is legal.

[marcosdoliva]

Paul is great but he is totally wrong on abortion. The question is not "when does life begin?" the question is when do the rights of the unborn outweigh the rights of the mother? To say at conception is not only ridiculous but impractical. At conception an embryo is nothing but a few cells.

[geodan2k]

It matters not what Ron Paul may believe is the "right" answer to abortion. It matters only his belief that any abortion decision under State law should not be overruled by the U.S. Supreme Court.

We also need to enforce state autonomy regarding our children's education, regarding the display of religious artifacts in public places, and regarding a wealth of other customary matters.

I say, "Bravo" to Ron Paul on his idea of controlling the scope of U.S. Supreme Court authority.

[kellygobraugh]

I agree 100%. I'm not thrilled about Ron Paul's viewpoint on abortion. I think abortion is a very personal decision and it should be considered a part of a woman's "right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness". But, I am still voting for Ron Paul since I agree with him on 90% of the issues. RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT! Let's keep this movement moving!

[ridesawhitehorse]

RP's policy on abortion gives us all more choice and freedom on the issue by not allowing the supremes to make sweeping laws. More power to the people. You don't have to agree with him personally, but freedom of choice for the states is very progressive.

[kellygobraugh]

I'm afraid that if states are allowed to dictate their abortion policy, women will be treated like criminals (in states like Utah for example) for having abortions. Abortion should be legal across the board. Nobody should be treated like a criminal for having an abortion. But, hospitals shouldn't be forced to perform abortions & no tax dollars should go into ANYTHING related to abortion. "Life & Liberty" includes a woman's right to choose. A fetus has no rights. still: Ron Paul for prez!

[marcosdoliva]

I'm not sure I agree with you that no tax dollars should go to anything abortion related. Often it is low income people who want and would benefit the most from planned parenthood. Also, if we ever get universal health care then tax dollars would go towards terminating pregnancies. I see nothing wrong with that. Right to choose benefits society.

[base1aransas]

Society is benefited when people become responsible.

Without that, you will live in a quagmire, and you seem to accept that as your life goals.

[kellygobraugh]

Well, we can disagree. I think, and practically all Ron Paul supporters think, that "universal healthcare" is bogus. It would become another government beaurocracy that would spend more than it brings in. More importantly, we don't have enough money to fund "universal healthcare" unless we completely change our foreign policy & drastically reduce spending. "Universal healthcare" is a liberal phrase designed to tug at your emotions in order to get your vote. Don't believe a word they say.

[marcosdoliva]

Well, that is awfully cynical to say. Look, there are some things that the government does better than corporations. Insurance is one of them. Why do we want corporations deciding who gets treatment? They have no moral obligation. At the least the gov't has to be responsible to the voters. Don't believe Ron Paul on healthcare. He is more concerned about less government than making sure we all have access to care.

[kellygobraugh]

The gov't has tried to provide insurance for Social Security & Welfare & it is a mess. Private enterprise provides the best insurance to people by far. Ask anyone who is insured through their company & they will agree. My company pays 90% of my medical bills. The government would never do that. How, in heaven's name, could you possibly trust the same government that is destroying our economy due to bad monetary policy and an intrusive foreign policy. Wake up. Do not trust this government.

[marcosdoliva]

Every government of every civilized nation in the world has universal health care except the US. If it works in Canada why can't we get it to work here? We have over 47 uninsured and growing. This is ridiculous. Something must be done.

[LetFreedomRlng]

People from canada come to America for healthcare. Have you talked to Canadians? Their healthcare is garbage!!!

America was built to protect people's freedom and liberty, not control the people!!! If we got rid of the Federal Income Tax we all could afford competitive free market healthcare, and both doctors and patients will still have freedom to choose.

YouTube: Reagan on socialized medicine

[marcosdoliva]

Our doctors would not go anywhere under universal health care. You'd still be able to pick which doctor to go to. In fact, rich and poor would have access to the same doctors under a single-payer insurance program.

[kellygobraugh]

How can you predict the future? I'm really curious about that. Also, keep in mind that there are only so many doctors and many many people. This idea of everyone having access to "the best" is just a pipe-dream...but going ahead: keep smoking it.

[marcosdoliva]

Since when is healing people controlling them?  Free market health care? Do you realize how high prices would skyrocket? The system would crash as insurance companies downsized and costs became prohibitive.

The idea of universal health care is to counter market forces to make it affordable for all. Health care should not be a competitive venture.

[mccallbs1]

1) The government taking my money and spending it how they want against what I want, controls me. That is not freedom or America.

2)You can not force the market to set prices and simple study of Austrian economics would clear this up for you. More government intervention is what forced prices up to where they are now.

What incentive is there to be a doctor under a universal health system where "equal care" is given to all, therefore making specialized skills useless?

[marcosdoliva]

What kind of government seeks the approval of every single taxpayer before it spends taxpayer money? No one asked me if I wanted to go to Iraq. Taxes are spent for the wellfare of society not for the desires of taxpayers.

I don't agree that market forces should control healthcare. My point is that voters (through elected representatives) should control healthcare.

Nothing would change under a single-payer program. Rather, hospitals would have 1 insurance co. to deal with rather than 150.

[mccallbs1]

Government does not seek approval, it represents through elected officials. The more localized the government, the better the representation. Federal Government exists for one essential purpose: Ensure the Life and Liberty of the people. No one asked you if you wanted to go to Iraq! Exactly! Now you get it. Congress did not declare war but they did fund the war and Congress is how the people say what they want. COngress is localized representation of the people, thats why they alone declare war.

[kellygobraugh]

Taxes should be collected and spent according to the Constitution. Going to war with Iraq was unconstitutional. Giving the states rights go decide if they want socialized healthcare for their state is fine. But, on a federal level it is not constitional. Why are you opposed to giving this choice to the states?

[mccallbs1]

P.S. I was at CPAC. I heard the Dr. speak and met him after. He is truly, truly, a class act.

[kellygobraugh]

How do you explain the shortage of dentists in England? This shortage is supposed to double in 5 years. Also, how do you explain the increasingly long waits to receive surgery in Canada? Many Canadians prefer to come to the U.S. for care because their system is terrible.

[kellygobraugh]

Taxes would drastically increase under a socialized system. Sorry to break the news to you, but this is a cost increase. Also, I'd love hear why you can support a universal system given the situation at Walter Reed medical center where our injured troops are waiting in line for over a year to receive important treatment. If they can't handle that correctly, what makes you think they can handle the health care of millions of Americans? Wake up and smell the coffee, please.

[marcosdoliva]

Regan in '61? That little piece of propaganda was created to counter the passing of Medicare and Medicaid. It didn't work and now low income and the elderly have health care. It's time we extended coverage for the rest of us.

[kellygobraugh]

Go back 50 years in hour history when health care was mostly market-driven. Nearly all Americans had affordable care, doctors could actually make house calls, doctors were willing to negotiate prices for those that couldn't afford it, there were charity hospitals all over the country. Then, government got involved - now our health care system is in shambles. Explain how allowing our crooked government to dictate health care is going to be improved with "universal health care"?

[kellygobraugh]

Also, since you are speaking of "moral obligations", the government has no right to force my money out of my pocket and pay for your insurance. I have no obligation to you - only to myself and those whom I choose to help. This is reality. It may sound harsh, but liberals need to recognize reality sometimes. I am responsible for my welfare. You are responsible for yours. I would never as you to live for me nor would I do the same for you unless I were willing.

[marcosdoliva]

What are you talking about? What do you think Medicare and Medicaid do? All federal programs come out of taxpayer dollars. The government has every right to use our tax dollars to pay for things you may not personally agree with if they benefit society as a whole. Universal Healthcare will increase the quality of life for the whole country. We will all be taken care of.

[kellygobraugh]

Wrong. The government has no right to use our tax dollars for things on a whim. Read the constitution & the Bill of Rights and you'll understand this. Medicaire and Medicaid are both a MESS. We Libertarians do not believe in "benefiting society as a whole" government programs. We believe in INDIVIDUAL rights. Also, hearing that you want to be "taken care of" is a typical liberal statement. Try taking care of yourself and not expecting help to come from money forced out of our pockets.

[marcosdoliva]

First you say I am "wrong" and then you answer by saying the gov't cannot spend on a "whim." Who's talking about a whim? I said that taxpayers do not have to personally approve of every federal program. That's true. And just gov't programs are not perfect does not mean we can't make them better. I'm all for individual rights but citizens have every right to expect certain things from their govt...healthcare being one of them as the rest of the civilized world has already done.

[kellygobraugh]

Well, sorry to break the news to you but you are wrong. The government has no right to use our tax dollars to spend money on healthcare. There is NOTHING in the constitution that says they have the right.

[marcosdoliva]

No, I'm not wrong. We already have federally mandated health care in Medicaid and Medicare. Are you saying we should get rid of those?

[mccallbs1]

YES! We should. Those services are what drive the price of healthcare up! It is simple economics! Do you seriously not understand this or are you being willfully ignorant on the subject?

[marcosdoliva]

Please explain how Medicare and Medicaid drive up the prices of healthcare. Also, under a completely free market heathcare system what is to stop insurers from not covering high risk individuals? How could you guarantee health care for all?

[mccallbs1]

Case study: Public Schools. I'm from Pittsburgh. Pittsburgh city schools spend over $10,000 per student. I went to private school and recieved a better education (judged by school avg SATs) in a safer environment (Less crime and violence) than Pitt City Schools. My education cost about $3,500 a year. About 3-4 times less than schools owned and operated by the government. So why would government involvement in medicine make care better, or less expensive? I can not and will not.

[marcosdoliva]

First of all, we have socialized education. Every child through highschool gets a free education in America. Are you suggesting that we get rid of public schools because the costs are mismanaged?

I agree healthcare costs are outrageous in America. We need to work on bringing them down. But we also need free healthcare for all. These are 2 separate problems that can both be solved.

Healthcare for all cannot be accomplished with a pure free market. Just like school for all could not be.

[mccallbs1]

So do you think that all schools ae equal? Are all that graduate have an education? Yes, all that graduate may have a diploma but some can not read it. Sure, everyone may get something, but for some, what they get may be pretty pathetic in quality. Health care is the same, just look at nations with socialized medicine; they all get something, but the quality comes down and many do not have the freedom to have better care even if they need or can afford it.

[mccallbs1]

P.S. School is not free, it is mandatory and it is paid for by the government though taxation of the people. The people pay for the school. Why could individuals not have the freedom to choose where they want to go with their own tax dollars? You seem to be in favor of the right to "choose." I want to know why you think that right does not apply to education or healthcare.

[marcosdoliva]

So are you advocating we get rid of public schools? Isn't school mandatory because we all agree that school for all is a good thing. Isn't healthcare for all a good thing as well? Under a single-payer program you can go to which ever doctor you choose. It won't be like the HMO system we have now.

[mccallbs1]

I think that it should not be the governments job to mandate education (the fouders and the Constitution agreed) or healthcare (founders agree again). This country is about freedom, not about doing what some people think is a good thing. We should get rid of public schooling, HMO's, Medicare and Medicade and let people keep the money they paid in to such programs. That money can be used to pay for their own care if they want to do so. Regardless the decision is theirs. If you disagree then move.

[marcosdoliva]

I'm glad we have public schools and gov't healthcare so I'll stay. It sounds like you don't like they way things are so why don't you hit the bricks. All civilized countries have free education and healthcare. I want the US to get up to speed. Policy ideas like yours will send us back into the dark ages. Millions would grow up illiterate and die from simple diseases because they could not afford education or healthcare. The whole country would suffer.

[mccallbs1]

have you studied the history of education or do you just imagine the way you think it was, and should be? why have literacy rates dropoped every single year since public schools? What was the purpose of public schools? Do you know? I bet you never read about it. It is simple to be willfully ignorant on issues because it makes your stance easier to have. What about healthcare? More of the same.

[marcosdoliva]

"literacy rates dropoped every single year since public schools." So literacy rates have dropped every year since 1643? Come on, seriously? The US literacy rate is 99%

Sure I know what public schools are for - education for all to benefit society. I'm not ignorant of the subject. Health care for all would also benefit society. The number one cause of bankruptcy in the US is healthcare costs.

[mccallbs1]

School was not public then, unless you consider the Church schools run w/o tax money public? Literacy is not just being able to read a word but being able to read and comprehend sentances. Reading the menu at McDonalds is not a glorious achievement of public education. What was the most literate country ever? If we seek to be more like them, we would be saying Sig Heil... True government public schools began, to develop obedient workers during the Industrial Revolution. Read a book about it.

[marcosdoliva]

No I don't consider a chruch run school a public school. That would be a private school. And I agree that "literacy is not just being able to read a word but being able to read and comprehend sentances." 1940 Germany was not the most literate country ever. All countries have public schools. It is a basic human right.

[mccallbs1]

Nazi Germany was the most educated nation in the history of the world. You can deny it all you want but that is the truth. Education is not a right. From where does this right come? And, universal health does not benefit everyone. Do you think people enjoy people who are uninsured and thats why we dont have universal health? Have you considered that the reason we are the greatest nation in the world is because have had a free system for so long and since intervention it has gone down?

[marcosdoliva]

You keep changing your arguments. First you say that Hitler's Germany was the most literate country ever. Now you say it was the most educated country. Today's Japan is more educated, technological savy than 1940 German. The US has a higher literacy rate than 1940 Germany.

Education is a right because every modern society demands it. Try taking away public schools in America. You'll see.

Universal healthcare does benefit everyone. That's why it's called universal.

[mccallbs1]

I'm not changing my arguement. It is the truth and the truth is objective. Hitler's Germany had the highest literacy of any nation, ever. It was the most educated nation, ever. Public school students are not as educated as homeschooled or private schooled kids; the people who choose their education are educated at a superior level. Same with healthcare; those who choose are given care at a superior level.

[marcosdoliva]

Well, you've provided no statistics or sources and I found nothing to back your claims in my own research. I have no reason to believe you. Why do you continue to assume that under universal healthcare we would have no choice? You are completely mistaken. We would, in fact, have more choices than we do now. No HMO's to dictate which doctors we can see. We could see whichever doctor we choose.

[mccallbs1]

If you truly loved capitalism and America then you would love what America is all about what the things that made AMerica great. Supporting what will cause it to become like any other nation, most likely worse, to me, is insane. I see people wanting to elect socialism in this country and take our freedoms away through democracy and that pisses me off. But i supposed this still is a form of democracy (we could have voted Bush or CLinton for the last 24 years) where any 2 fools out vote a genius..

[marcosdoliva]

I do love the way America is. I just want it to be better.

You seem to not only dislike America (public schools, medicare, medicaid) but you dislike every other country in the world.

You should do some traveling. The rest of the world is not that bad.

Not everyone who disagrees with you is a socialists and wants rights taken away. I want more freedom. I love the free market and I love freedom. I think we should legalize drugs. Heath would still be with us if marijuana was legal.

[lsucowboys99]

and of course with your socilaized medicine we would all pay for the cancer treatment (if theres any rationed for that person) of the life long smokers! Liar! Education is reserved under the 10th ammendment for the states! You take our education rights away!

"You think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until its free"

- PJ O'Rourke

[mccallbs1]

So do rights change with consent?.. The government would never dare get rid of public schools! They dont want an intelligent free thinking population but an obedient working class of people. Government run public school is the governments best friend. Have you ever read about universal health care? You have a vivid, optimistic, utopian imagination, uneducated as it may be. I swear you sound like you have never studied healthcare or economic choice. Educate yourself, public schoold did a poor job

[marcosdoliva]

I don't understand why you are so anti-gov't. The gov't is the people. I love America and I think we have the best gov't in the world.

No one is forced to go to public school. Private school exists for those that can afford it. I'm glad everyone can get an education whether they can afford it or not.

Yes, I am an optimist and I am very educated in both science and law. I went to both public and private school and they both did a great job.

[mccallbs1]

The idea that you want America to be like every other country makes me sick. We fought a war so this country could be different from every other civilized country. America is better and luckily you do not get to define America. Patriots who spilled blood and wrote our Constitution already did so people like you would not have power change America into what they feel it should be. Unfortunately, we ignore out rule of law and Constitution and youre ideas get more support than you duely deserve.

[marcosdoliva]

I'm sorry universal education and healthcare make you sick. If we had universal healthcare you could get treated for that and not worry about the costs. People like me do have the power to change America. And we will. This year we will elect a president who will bring about healthcare reform and we'll be on our way towards universal healthcare. I can't wait. I'm sorry you don't agree but maybe someday you'll benefit from the system and see that it is not so bad.

[mccallbs1]

Question: If our universal education is so excellent then why do we progressively drop scores lower than the rest of the world in areas of math and science? And, if our healthcare system is terrible (its far from perfect currently) then why do people leave nations that have universal healthcare and come to America for care?

Bottom line: The government taking money and using it how they see fit is financial tyrrany. You like that because hard working people would pay for you and have no choice

[marcosdoliva]

You are setting up a false argument. I never argued that our educational system was the best. I said that it was good thing that any child, anywhere can go to public school. And I never said our healthcare was terrible. We have great doctors in this country.  The best in the world. But we have 47 million uninsured and healthcare costs are the leading cause of bankruptcy. Something needs to be done. Lastly, universal health care helps everyone. Stop fighting something that benefits us all.

[mccallbs1]

The bottom line is you are a socialist and want the government to be large and control our lives and eliminate our freedom of choice. This arguement can not be rational and based around facts or educated arguement. You just want to eliminate personal responsibility and have everyone have the same life regardless of what they have done to earn it. You say you want women to be able to choose to kill their baby or not but not where they can send that baby to school or what doctor they can visit.

[marcosdoliva]

I'm not a socialist. I love capitalism. I just want a better america. I don't want you or I or any american ever to worry about healthcare costs ever again.

I don't want any baby killed. Stem cells are not babies and no woman should be forced to have children.

Lastly, under a single-payer program you can choose to go to whichever doctor you choose. We'd have more choice than we have now.

Choice is good.

[mccallbs1]

Its easy to want to have it both ways, isnt it?

America...

The place where people come to by the millions and the people who live here have the audacity to tell us that America is not right and we need to be more like the nations that people move from to come here.

Read a book. Study some history and economics and then try thinking for yourself... for once...

[marcosdoliva]

It's true. Some nations have better healthcare than America and better education too. If we love America than we should all strive for the best America possible even if that means learning from others.

I enjoy reading history and economics and I love thinking.

Why do you assume that people who disagree with you are uneducated? When did you become the smartest person in the world?

[mccallbs1]

You are a socialist. Your views are socialist. I, personally, just tent to side with the founding fathers and the Constitution on matters when it comes to American government. I am for the free market and liberty for Americans. Government does not have the right to take my money (labor) and use it to benefit others. That may be my responsibility, but when i have no choice that is socialism and that i what you support whether you say you do or not.

[marcosdoliva]

Just because someone is for universal healthcare does not make them a socialist. All you are doing is mischaracterizing and overgeneralizing my position. If that makes it easier for you to argue with me then that just shows the weakness in your ability to discuss healthcare reform.

None of us have a direct choice in how the gov't spends our money. But we have an indirect choice through our representatives. That is not socialism. That is Democracy.

[mccallbs1]

I have only two questions for you...

1) If government takes over healthcare, why will it become less expensive and better quality? Remember public schools are up to 6 times as expensive as most private schools that have objectively higher performing students.

2) Why do you feel the government can spend your money better than you can?

Answer those questions. I'll be eagerly awaiting your well thought and articulate reply...

[marcosdoliva]

1. Because the gov't is not motivated by profit like the private sector is. The gov't would not deny people care. Why do you want to continue fighting insurance companies who's interests it is to deny you care so they can save money? I don't mind doctors motivated by money. Under a single-payer program they still would be. Better doctors recieve more patients and can bill more often.

But why should the entity paying the bills be motivated by money? That does not make sense to me.

[marcosdoliva]

1. cont..

Also, it is not like US healthcare is stellar. Lots of other countries which use universal healthcare have far better quality at much lower costs than us. Instead, of using hypotheticals and comparing the costs of healthcare to public schools just look at what other nations are doing. Why do you feel that is not achieveable in the US?

[mccallbs1]

This country is about Liberty, not welfare. If I dont want to give my money to people who dont work, then I should not have to. That would make me a bad person (I am pro-charity) but i would still be free. I think freedom for people in america is more important than the government promising to solve their problems by giving them "free" healthcare. We should listen to our founders and the constitution. Those things used to matter. Now people just want a welfare state and kick liberty to the curb.

[marcosdoliva]

2. This question makes a false dichotomy. Why is the choice all or nothing? The truth is every gov't spends taxes for the welfare of society which individuals cannot achieve. Gov'ts raise armies, build infrastructure, provide public schools and in most countries provide universal healthcare.

So let me understand your position. You feel that it is ok that 47+ million americans go uninsured because it would make your costs cheaper and quality better and give you more freedom of choice?

[mccallbs1]

It is ok for people to be uninsured. government involvement is what makes prices go up though. The solution to the problem is not more government. But to answer you and let this rest, our government exists to ensure liberty and property. The government should not take money from person A and give it to person B, even if that means person B will die. That may mean person A has a moral obligation but it is equally immoral for the government to intervene and steal money and give it to others.

[kellygobraugh]

Also, in a Libertarian world, "Universal healthcare" would not be allowed on the federal level. If individual states voted to have socialized healthcare for themselves, then that is constitutional for that state. Ron Paul rejects a federal healthcare program and we, his supporters, stand by that.

[marcosdoliva]

We already have Medicare and Medicaid so I don't understand why extending such coverage would not be allowed. California is already on it's way to state universal health care but why not run it on a federal level? Why can't health care be something we can all count on like the rest of the civilized world?

[kellygobraugh]

Because Medicare and Medicaid are both a mess. I'm still curious to hear why you trust the same government who manipulated the truth in order to invade Iraq (a sovereign nation that posed no threat to us) and has, for the last 60 years spread its empire around the world. It has overspent, overtaxed and consistently violated civil liberties. How could you possibly support these people with our health care? I mean, seriously...these people are crazy.

[marcosdoliva]

But the executive branch would not be soley responsible for healthcare. It would be a program that would long outlive any administration. The power is in our hands. We elected Bush. We elected Clinton. We need to make better choices in our leaders if we want things done right. And every 4 years we can elect someone to do it better.

[mccallbs1]

Tell me. What is the purpose of the Presidentt of the United States? I dont want to know what you "think" it should be because some may "think" he should have to wash their car. What is his purpose as designated by our governing document called the Constitution? Have you read it? Trust me, the answer lies within...

[kellygobraugh]

California has a right to take care of its own health care. If the people of CA decide to adopt universal health care then fine -that's their right. But, the federal government has no role in dictating health care. Each state should decide on its own. Otherwise, you will have to amend the Constitution to include language that excludes doctors from practicing their business as they see fit. You are saying that the government should, at the point of a gun, force doctors how to do business.

[marcosdoliva]

Not at all. Nothing would change under a single-payer program. The only difference would be 1 insurance company rather than 150. And we'd all have access to the best doctors.

[kellygobraugh]

If I were a doctor under this perfect system that you dream of, I would pack up my bags and go work somewhere where I can make more money and run a business as I see fit. Health is a service. It's a business. It doesn't grow on trees. It requires great minds and enormous labor. How dare you want the government to control them.

[marcosdoliva]

You disagree with RP on abortion. Why do you have to stand by him on healthcare? Look, I love RP. He's a great man and would be a great president. But he's not perfect. He is wrong on abortion and wrong on health care. We should have freedom of choice and be able to walk into a hosptial anytime, anywhere and not worry about the financial costs. Universal healthcare is the essence of freedom. Free from stress, free from financial worries.

[mccallbs1]

How is leaving the states to decide an issue wrong? Why should the federal government trump a state government and prevent them from deciding what their people want? How is universal healthcare the "essence" of freedom? It may give me the freedom to do nothing and let others pay for my needs, but there is no freedom to those who pay. What if they do not want to pay? That have no choice. What if they dont want to? Tough. Is that Freedom?

[marcosdoliva]

We already pay for Medicare and Medicaid. Do you feel that you are not free because you are helping pay the healthcare costs of terminally ill children? With universal healthcare we are talking about extending coverage to the rest of us. What is freedom to you? Not paying taxes and fending for yourself? If that is your view then no gov't will satisfy you. But if you do want gov't and you do expect certain things in exchange for paying taxes why not healthcare for all?

[kellygobraugh]

Because, Marcos, you and I disagree fundamentally on a key question: is healthcare a right? You think that healthcare is a right. I think that healthcare is a service. It is a service that is only made possible by medical professionals who have labored to offer us the service. You believe that doctors should be forced to provide healthcare to anyone who requests it or they will face criminal charges. You have a left-winged socialist philosophy and I have capitalist philosophy. That is why.

[marcosdoliva]

Why shouldn't we expect to have healthcare paid for by our government? It seems like such a reasonable proposition to me. 47+ million uninsured. To let that happen seems immoral to me.

Already, it is illegal for doctors to deny treatment for people without insurance.  But why is that a bad thing? Should we live in a world where doctors only treat the wealthy?

[marcosdoliva]

Also, I am not a socialist but some socialized programs are good. We have socialised mail, libraries and military. Why not healthcare?

[mccallbs1]

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them"

"A government big enough to give you everything you need, is big enough to take evrythhing you have"

-Thomas Jefferson... remember him?

[marcosdoliva]

I don't understand why you so vehemently oppose a better quality of life for us all. The rest of the world is passing us up while the leading cause of bankruptcy in America is health care costs.

Universal Healthcare would take care of you, your family, your children, your grandchildren...

No one would ever go broke because of healthcare costs again. Ever!

Let's do this now so our kids don't have to grow up in a world where they fear the costs of hospital bills.

[andrewh817]

I believe he said he'd have the doctors prosecuted, not the patients.

[kellygobraugh]

You are right, he did say that. But, still, I think it is a personal decision and if a woman makes a decision to pay someone to abort the fetus, neither should be charged. It is a consensual act and it should be done by a doctor. If it becomes a criminal act, people will be paying quacks to abort their babies or, even worse, doing it themselves. Abortion NEEDS to be a human right - human rights are the core of our "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness". Ron Paul for prez!

[andrewh817]

i agree but it might be impossible to get a candidate that good

[mccallbs1]

You say a fetus has no rights... You do not want the states to be able to dictate something that you disagree with. Others use the same arguement that you do for things like marriage and healthcare. You cant have it both ways, as much as I probably agree with you on things, and I love Ron Paul and met him at CPAC, you have to be consistent across the board.

[ridesawhitehorse]

You go against RP's and liberatarian phiolosophy. Abortion is force against life. The abortion issue should be taken out of the hands of politians where it NEVER belonged... and given into the hands of the people, thinkers, writers, philosophers. NOT politicians. We were in a far better place on the issue before politics got involved. It should neither be legal nor illegal. You will never see a woman in jail for abortion.

It is the doctors we have to get to, so that abortion will become rare.

[mccallbs1]

Its not progressive, its our Constitution. Freedom for states has been US policy since the Constitution was written. It only seems progressive because we have lost our way and do not obey the Constitution any longer.

[marcosdoliva]

The Supreme Court has long ago decided that the Fed gov't can do things that are not explicit in the constitution. One of which is to protect our fundamental rights. A fundamental right established by the courts is the right to privacy of which the right to choose is one. Therefore, States cannot take away our fundamental rights including right to choose.

[base1aransas]

Be careful. While it's a personal decision, it removes the opportunity for the aborted to place a part in that decision. Pregnancy is not a disease, nor is the fetus an unwanted cancer.

[kellygobraugh]

This is where the big disagreement is. I agree that a fetus is alive. It's a human. But, it does not have rights. You believe it is alive & human but it does have rights.

This issue is so complicated and so tender that I do not think the government should be involved. It should be the decision of the woman who is risking her life by bearing a child. The responsibility and the consequences of the abortion are her's. This is the essence of Libertarianism and freedom.

[base1aransas]

Sounds like you like using your womb as a weapon!

[kellygobraugh]

It's not a weapon. It is me. A womb is part of a woman...it is not a separate thing. What is inside that womb is the responsibility of the woman. You may think her decision to abort the baby is wrong...and that's fine...I would probably agree with you. I do think abortion is disgusting. But, the responsibility of that very complicated decision rests on the woman alone. She deserves no punishment from the government and neither do the doctors who provide the abortion service.

[marcosdoliva]

But pregnancies can be unwanted and accidental. Why do we want to force women to have children when they accidentally get pregnant? Also, we are not talking about a fetus. At conception we are talking about a few stem cells. Why should cells have a right to live?

[kellygobraugh]

Good point Marcos. The key word here is "force". As Libertarians, we make a vow that we do not condone the iniation of force in anyway whatsoever. This applies to abortion as well. The government should stay out of it. His abortion stance is Ron Paul's biggest flaw, however I am still voting for him and I do hope that his pro-life supporters vote for him, too, because he really needs votes. Sad but true.

[andrewh817]

By the way, kelly, he wouldn't make abortion illegal. He'd let the individual states decide and my guess is that a good portion of states wouldn't ban it.

[marcosdoliva]

I live in Texas. I'm sure if it were left to that states Texas would make it illegal.

[kellygobraugh]

Utah, Texas and Oklahoma would ban it. People would be arrested or heavily fined. It would be a mess. Abortion must be looked at as a human right. A woman's right.

[marcosdoliva]

They put gay marriage up to the states and most of them banned it. What makes you think abortion would be any different?

[mccallbs1]

You are nothing but a few more cells. Whats your point? How many cells, then, make a person who has rights protected by the constitution?

[marcosdoliva]

Well, the court has established that the rights of the fetus outweigh the rights of the mother when it is viable. Viability begins at about 24 weeks, which is into the 3rd trimester. You and I are certainly more than a few cells. We have brains for one thing which allow us to have complicated thoughts.

[mccallbs1]

So rights come with viability? So do those who have no brain function, or limited function have no rights? Do those who can not take care of themselves have no rights? By your definition, they do not...

[marcosdoliva]

You should read Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey. They will clear up a lot of confusion for you. Better than I could.

The question of when a fetus's rights outweighs the mother are totally separate from whether brain-dead or incapacitated patients have the right to live.

Unrecoverable brain-dead patients have no right to live. Elderly, have a right to services so long as they can afford them or are covered by insurance.

[ridesawhitehorse]

Organized growing cells of human life...duh.

Why are so many people so happy to suck life out of the womb. Doesn't it make you feel sick? Why wouldn't you want that to be RARE? Why would you defend it?

[marcosdoliva]

I don't consider a stem cell a human being.

Who said I was happy with abortion and I don't want it to be rare? I wish no one had to make such a difficult decision. And I don't want anyone to be forced to do anything they don't want to do. But some women choose abortion because they feel that it is the responsible thing to do at that point in their life and I support their right to carry out that decision under the care of a doctor.

[smoken81]

ha ha yeah daschle sux!

[pauvro]

Jesus Christ do you think they have enough American flags? Anyway, Ron Paul is the best, woo!