Examination of the Book of Abraham Facsimiles

[TrickTrolan]

another joke of a vid

[Samael51760]

@TrickTrolan Sure. Egyptologists got it wrong even though Egyptologists can translate Egyptian and Joe Smith couldn't. The joke is on Joe Smith. Joe Smith didn't even get the gender right on one of the figures that was obviously a woman. HA! HA!

[Samael51760]

Noah's Ark still doesn't explain why different animals are indigenous to different continents. If Noah dropped all the animals off at Mount Ararat how did they get back where they belonged? The Bible never said anything about a second trip. Plus wouldn't all the inbreeding of the animals after the flood cause birth defects? Plus if the whole earth was literally flooded and that wasn't an exaggeration and all the mountains were covered (even Mt. Everest) wouldn't most of the animals suffocate?

[BrotherMichael1000]

@Samael51760 I can take the word of God seriously because I know the power of God. What is impossible to you is most certainly not impossible to him. By the way it isn't magic it's his power. A being capable of creating the entire universe is more than capable of saving whom he will and placing them where he will.

[Samael51760]

Nothing to say geojoey15? I've given you too much to think about. How DID llamas get to South America from Noah's Ark?

[parkerolson96]

btw, i don't want to make this an argument, i just want to discuss. and figures 5-9 were correct. The idoltrous god of elkennah is the god that elkennah worships and the egyptologist names that god. those two translation fit together quite nicely.

[parkerolson96]

I'm just saying. Don't say it's wrong because of this or that. there are endless possibilities.

[parkerolson96]

OOOOHHHH!!!! never mind...i just realized the heads are cut off

well, still, the heads aren't there so they can never know for sure what was there.

[parkerolson96]

i mean they keep saying this drawing SHOULD have a jackal head and that the bird SHOULD have a human head....well, they don't so maybe the egyptologists didn't get it quite right. I mean, I'm not trying to get defensive because this is a really good point, but, it's just that the drawings 'should' but they don't.

[parkerolson96]

maybe the egyptologists got it wrong. who was the egyptologist who found this out.

[Marflet11]

The problem is, Joe Smith was able to take an idea of a woman in his time who wrote a book about the native Indians out west. She wondered if perhaps they were not the lost Hebrew Tribe. She compared the indians to Hebrews. Joe read her book and decided to start his own religion. He agreed with her idea and he elaborated on it with "inspiration" from God. He conned many good wives into leaving husbands; he conned good people. Good people continue to be conned. Mormonism is an elite club today.

[Ahashdah]

@silvio1963able ODDLY, you didn't tell "the rest of the story". Experts validated The Salamander Letter as having been written on period paper (paper from the right century and decade) with period ink (the right ink, for that time period, too).

And, at the meeting with President Spencer W. Kimball, Gordon Hinckley, and another man whose identity I can't recall, HOFFMANN buffaloed those mormon SEERS, handily!

(Talk about yer SEERS with a bad-seer day, huh !)

[Ahashdah]

All of the posturing of FAIR & FARMS, of the Mormon Crutch won't change the fact that there are many, many funerary papyri of "The Book of Breathings" text, in existence, to compare with the "partial papyrus" that JOE SMITH used, in fudging and rounding out what was missing in HIS copy!

Compare Smith's copy with any number of other copies of the SenSen papyri, and you will see the glaring inconsistencies that exist, in Smith's so-called translation:

He "penciled in" the missing parts, you Morms!

[MrNinamarie]

This is powerful stuff! A clear and convincing video exposing the "prophet" for exactly what he was, a con man.

[silvio1963able]

How often have experts been wrong? Experts authenticated the White Salamander Letters which proved to be completely false, and the forger is now in prison. How stupid do you think people felt when they realized the experts where the ones completely wrong? I believe that it is good to seek after evidence but for me, I believe that the evidence from God in answers to prayer trumps the reasoning of scholars, experts, egyptologists and whoever else that is learned of the world.

[silvio1963able]

The evidences that the scrolls were egyptian funerals documents, and not the book of abrahan. - Number one: Only deads are designed bald in the egyptian hieroglyphics. So the man that's "tied" (As of this writing in the esplanation of fac-simile 1in PGP) at altar of elkenah is a corpse, not abrahan. Number 2: The scrolls was bought with more two mummies. Then join all pieces of puzzle. A Draw in the egyptian scrolls with bald lying in altar(corpse) + Mummies = Funeral documents (of course!!!)

[plunderpunk]

LDS: "Yeah, but..."

[HammockerSam]

@momoboy2010 How did you jump to that conclusion? Here is what just went on in your head:

"So, Joseph Smith Jr. did NOT translate the papyri of the Book of Abraham correctly, soooooo...........

the Book of Mormon is true!!!!!!!!!!"

WRONG!

[77NMK]

Maybe if the findings of "Abraham" where in Reformed Egyptian and not just your regular Egyptian Joesph could have translated them better. Or may be if he had his seer stone and hat. Or maybe he was busy translating the Kinderhook plates so his mind was on other things. Or maybe he was too busy seducing another 17 year old girl to be his wife. There are just so many reasons why his translations could have been "a little off," but that still doesn't prove that he wasn't a prophet of God.

[rickgigliotti]

If Mormons want to become Christians, there is good news! They still can be...

[Samael51760]

@rickgigliotti Religion is crap! Mormons are Christians. they believe Christ was resurrected and the same bullshit Christians believe in. Which is stupid.

[geojoey15]

@Samael51760 you and your teachers are monkeys who use only 10% of their brain.

[Samael51760]

@geojoey15 Christians are stupid. They believe a Jewish carpenter was resurrected and now lives in the sky. And will return again to save them. Even more absurd: Many believe that a senior citizen fit 2 of every animal on an ark and that all the Hebrew myths in the Bible are true.

[geojoey15]

@Samael51760 BAHahahaha!!! Nothing exploded into something and made a rock and the rain made the rock into... YOU!

By the way, how big was the ark? How old was Noah? How old are you?

[Samael51760]

@geojoey15 Not big enough to get the Kangaroos to Australia after it landed on Mount Ararat. Not big enough to fit the innumerable creatures that live in the rainforest. How did the animals survive on the ark anyway? Don't certain animals die outside their natural habitat? How did the Llamas get to South America from Mount Ararat. I suppose they sprouted fins and swam. How old am I? 27 if you must know. And not a big fan of Christian literalism.

[BrotherMichael1000]

@Samael51760 "How did the animals survive on the ark anyway?" There was food and water on board. " Don't certain animals die outside their natural habitat? "Explain how animals survive in zoos. "How did the Llamas get to South America from Mount Ararat?" Bering land bridge

[Samael51760]

@BrotherMichael1000 Oh, yeah. Sure. Noah went to Australia to get kangaroos. And they didn't even know that land existed. Noah's wife went to Antarctica just to get penguins. Right. Magic got all the animals to cooperate and behave. Trust me. Fitting two of every animal onto the ark was the least of Noah's problems. How can you take that story literally? It doesn't even make sense. The comment about animals surviving in zoos was ridiculous because not all animals can live in zoos.

[Samael51760]

@rickgigliotti I would rather have them become atheists and agnostics than go back to being religious freaks. Christianity is a crock of bull.

[IExposeMormonism]

You "corrected" the wrong person. I Expose Mormonism, not endorse it. I was correcting a Mormonite and was using Mormon sources. Check out my other comments to him. It must be statistically significant Joe got everything wrong. "they" say a monkey can type a word or book given enough time. But Joe not only couldn't spell he couldn't interpret what he was spelling out. And he was supposed to be knowledgeable on mythology issues. All this after he wrote an inspired book with his head in his hat

[majinish]

And yet I've found information proving the things of the Book of Abraham to be true, including the facsimiles

[IExposeMormonism]

@majinish PLEASE!! Give it up! where, enlighten us.

[majinish]

@IExposeMormonism Why give up when I'm the one that's found things? Are you too lazy to research?

[IExposeMormonism]

@majinish You are 19. I am 60. I have osme 325 books on Mormonism all original publications like Tholsons "Adam-God Theory", 1994. "The Nauvoo Endowment Ceremonies, A Documentary History", "Sacred Lonlines", Penrose, Cannon, History of the Church both RLDS and LDS 6 different ed from 1890. I have clones of 1830 BobM, D&C BofC, and some Egypto crap and Many other Mormon books. Then i have Dozens from those Fleeing Morminism. Then I have those researching it. Now, just one reference from you???.

[IExposeMormonism]

no Egyptian linguist from Champollion unto today agrees with Joe. not one anywhere. I posted "Jospeh Smith shold have Known Better" I use a book, "American Antiquities,...." 1830.It has 30 pages of CHAMPOLLION! And 25,000 copies were in circulation by 1835, plenty of time for Joe to get up to speed. Documentaries on Youtube say Champollion wasn't known but I show he was. And Plenty of Freemasons knew Joe had Blown it big time. Their libraries were current.

[Korkzor]

I´ve recieved a copy of the book of mormoms from some american mormons. The book of Abraham is not in it.

Should it be or does it go by a different name?

[wolfmunden]

@Korkzor The book of Abraham is part of Mormon scripture called The Pearl of Great Price which is separate from The Book of Mormon. The Mormons believe The Holy Bible (KJV), Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price are all scriptures equal to each other.

[paisleyatlarge]

Here's ya a good egyptologist!!

The famed Egyptologist Gerald Massey said -

“The mass of people who are Bible-taught never get free from the erroneous impressions stamped on their minds in their infancy, so that their manhood or womanhood can have no intellectual fulfillment, and millions of them only attain mentally to a sort of second childhood.”

and

"They must find it difficult... Those who have taken authority as the truth, rather than truth as the authority."

[jadetiger88888]

yikes.....!! thanks for the video. people should see this ......

[buckfushes]

Joseph met Emma while looking for buried treasure near Emma's Father's property. (Joseph was later accused of "trickery," He claimed he could find buried indian treasure using his "seer tones.") Emma's father didn't want them to be married because joseph was a known fraud. Joseph and later emma eloped.

[TP4949]

Did anyone know that J.S. had gotten arrested for Tricking people multiple times before any of this "translation" took place. Trickery was an actual law back then, he wasw a great con-artist who tricked alot of people. He was a con-artist nothing more.

[inutiasha]

wtf i never new that haha fuck those mormans are dumb

i send this to so many mormans by the wonderfull EMAIL lol

[WeberLaxMan55]

Nobody knows what those heads really were. So by going what the "Egyptologists" say SHOULD be there is no more right or wrong that what Joseph Smith translated it as. Ha. All you crazy people with your Anti Mormon BS just strengthen my faith. Haha

[IExposeMormonism]

Joseph Smith mistook a feather for a sword and then believed what was really a "Egyptian resurrection" Joe believed to be attempted Murder. This speaks volumes on Mormonism right "out of the gate". Then we "add in" the "Disappearing Penis", not shown here, but The Mormon Hierarchy deleted the penis on a critical hieroglyph. All this sex and even Joe gets it all wrong. odd. Maybe the Polygamy angel wasn't holding a sword, maybe he was holding his penis or a feather. Who Knows?

[MThomasBender]

The first thing I thought of was "How can anybody, regardless of age or place in time, mistake an abvious picture of a woman for a man?" The second thing was "Why is it that these Egyptologists call this lion looking table a couch in one explanation and a bed in the next?

[IExposeMormonism]

I posted a video showing Champollion was well known in 1833. I use "American Antiquities and Discoveries in the West", Josiah Priest. The First edition 1832, It was in 4th ed by 1834. He quotes some 30 pages of Champollion and Prof Rafinesque communications. Discussing "American Alphabets" and Linguistic similarities in Indian Languages. But no reformed Egyptian

[DerekG8383]

You can believe what you want as well. It is your right. If you want to believe in something regarding all the evidence to the contrary, that is your right. However, even disregarding the papyrus, the interpretation of JS of the facsimiles are wrong. Any honest LDS or non-LDS scholar admits this.

Face it, the BoA is equally as fraudulent as the salamander letters, except it is much easier to disprove. The Kinderhook plates is a another example of Joseph's inability to translate.

[chipsandcolddrink]

How often have experts been wrong? Experts authenticated the White Salamander Letters which proved to be completely false, and the forger is now in prison. How stupid do you think people felt when they realized the experts where the ones completely wrong? I believe that it is good to seek after evidence but for me, I believe that the evidence from God in answers to prayer trumps the reasoning of scholars, experts, egyptologists and whoever else that is learned of the world.

[DerekG8383]

Chipsandcolddrink- That is a very narrow and naive view.

[chipsandcolddrink]

to me it would be very narrow and naive to such trust in scholars, when there are so many loop holes in their philosophy. Go learn about the white salamander letters and you will understand why I am not tossed about by every wind of doctrine that people claim as proof.  Im mean seriously, a lousy Coca-cola can was carbon dated and the results showed it to be hundreds of thousands of years old. Believe what you want, I encourage that, This video just doesn't prove anything 1 way or the other.

[DerekG8383]

You can believe what you want, it is your right. Yes, the salamander letter was a forgery! This shows that the leaders of the church have no power of discernment. The Book of Abraham is a fraud, face it. Does it "prove" the church is not true? No, but it does PROVE that JS's claim of it being a translation of the writings of Abraham is false. You can never "prove" that a church is true, but you can certainly "prove" that the claims made by church leaders are false.

[chipsandcolddrink]

ha, no it doesn't. And by the way, Church leaders never sanctioned the salamander letters, It was historical scholars that did. With that understood, I am saying that these scholars and experts in egyptology could just as likely be completely wrong, just like the salamander letter authentication was completely wrong. The book of abraham scholars don't have enough evidence to prove that joseph smiths translation is incorrect.

[chipsandcolddrink]

If the papyrus was torn so that the heads were missing, what makes us think for a second that magically scholars would find the papyrus and it wouldn't be ripped in half anymore? or are you suggesting that there were two copies of the same picture and one of them wasn't ripped? Problem with that, I don't think that the copy machine was invented yet for them to make multiple identical copies of the same drawing.

[chipsandcolddrink]

Secondly, who's to say that the sensen papyrus are not counterfeit copies made by someone trying to do the same thing as Mark Hoffman with the Salamander Letters. Leaders of the church have only made comments to the effect of "oh thats interesting" The church never sanctioned or authenticated the sensen papyrus. but like I said, believe what you want derek.

[DerekG8383]

"who's to say that the papyrus are not counterfeit" I have not heard anyone make that argument. Are you going to be the first? Do you have some kind of insight that others don't? Do you have any evidence to support the idea that it is not the original document, or is it once again just your own personal bias that leads you to this conclusion? That is why as I said, personal feelings are a horrible method of determining truth. They are subjective and self-serving. Hence my first response.

[chipsandcolddrink]

maybe you didn't understand what I was saying: these claims of yours prove nothing, they are completely based on the assumption that the finding of the scholars you are referencing are 100% accurate. You have placed a lot of faith in mankind, who too oftenly make many many mistakes... some of which are on purpose lol. Dont base your beliefs off of your feelings. Confirm your beliefs with answers that come from God. What good is prayer if it is not a reliable source for detecting truth?

[DerekG8383]

"Dont base your beliefs off of your feelings. Confirm your beliefs with answers that come from God. What good is prayer if it is not a reliable source for detecting truth?"

Exactly the point I am making. You are coming from the biased assumption that there is a God. Nothing wrong with that belief, but it is a biased belief. What good is prayer if it isn't a reliable method of determining truth? It isn't. That is the point.

[chipsandcolddrink]

agreed, believing blindly can be a very biased way of going about things. For myself, I will base my belief of prayer on how they were answered. I will base it off of the times when the answers were most tangible, like all the hundreds of times that I had lost something, spent all day, or even several days looking for it, and then decided to pray. It seems very uncanny that when I do that, I find the object I was looking for within the next few minutes, if not the very next place I look.

[Sabbatino3]

@chipsandcolddrink Wouldn't the carbon dating be based off of how old the metal in the can actual was not when the can was made?

[chipsandcolddrink]

@Sabbatino3 no sir. It would date when the material experienced change, such as being melted down etc. Carbon dating dinosaur footprints seems even less awesome when you consider the only change that came to the mud the dinosaur step in, is that it formed to a dinosaurs foot. Trusting carbon dating is kinda silly sometimes.

[IExposeMormonism]

It takes a lot of Chutzpah to interpret the BofA like Joe did the job. But to draw heads and such on the bodies is over the top. All he did is a Expose himself. So to speak.

[IExposeMormonism]

I have not seen "King Pharaoh". Except with JS. . Its redundant. like Department of Redundancy Department. The King is a chick with spirit fingers! Positing other papyrus with similar glyphs and all of JS interpretation correct is stretching the fabric of space time too far.

[awolLDSasap]

afpoints.

There are LDS members that place their salvation into the hands of "smarter than I am" individuals. A common theme within church membership is "I will accept this because (so & so) believes it and they are greater than I am"

Is this the narrow gate?

Biblical verse relates a type of yin & yang of how God uses and identifies men.

Small = large / large = small.

The God of Israel has prohibited men from saying his name. His "word" is more important to him than his name.

[DerekG8383]

If you believe something to be true regardless of all the evidence to the contrary, there is really no point in debating, because you have already made up your mind.

[DerekG8383]

If you are a student of history and philosophy then you must realize that you are not coming to a conclusion based on evidence or reason. That is fine as long as you are aware. If you have studied Native American history, then you must also realize that there is no evidence to support anything in the BoM. That doesn't prove that it is not true, but belief is not based on evidence. For me, that is what it comes down to. I base my beliefs based on evidence and reason.

[DerekG8383]

Even if you base the BoA on content alone and not the origin, just looking at the text itself, you can find anachronisms. The text refers specifically to Facsimile 1, which dates to @100 B.C. The word Chaldea appears a number of times, but The Chaldeans appeared in the ninth century B.C, 700 years after Abraham

[DerekG8383]

Many people can look at the same information and come to different conclusions based on their own bias. If JS did not translate the BoA, then why did he make the false claim that he did? Why would he include facsimiles and have false interpretations along with incorrect translations of the hieroglyphics if we are to believe he had a gift of translation? It is only after learning of this when suddenly the origin becomes "unimportant"

[DerekG8383]

Academic Theologian, I can see where you are coming from. You are at a place where when faced with all the evidence, you make the choice to believe regardless of all the evidence to the contrary. I don't know if that is commendable or just childish and closed-minded. That is fine if you believe that, but the truth of the matter is that most LDS do not know much about the criticisms of the church.

[XjesstenX]

what i mean by blind and aimless is that you follow without question and believe whatever you are told, even with proof proving against it, gullible in a sense. believe what you want. just know i used to be mormon and have found it to be very false, along with all the other religions. and NOT because of youtube videos...that would be idiotic.

[XjesstenX]

"claim"? he has proof right there and you deny it! you are a blind and aimless lds follower. something can be proved fake and you believe the fake content, not the original, real content. pathetic! if joseph smith went through god to translate something, don't you think god would have gotten it right? and him? yes. and he didn't, proving it fake.

[JonasViotto25]

Why do you try to prove God's words using human knowledge? I didn't see any comment about your prayer askim Him about His dealings...

Paul said that spiritual things can be discerned spiritualy. Therefore, for me it means nothing, even that there isn't names for "Egyptologists". Who are they? Do these have some credit if they omit their own names?

Without properly credits, your movie isn't interesting for a student, what about to he who seeks God's truths.

[LatterDayAint]

Jonas Viotto, first, hahahahaha. Second, you said spiritual things can be discerned spiritually. This makes no sense. Especially when I am not disproving spiritual claims, I am simply disproving physical claims. You can't prove physical claims by spiritual means. Sorry, but no. Physical claims are best discerned by physical examination. As for Egyptologists, any reputable Egyptologist LDS or non-LDS agrees. Please do some research.

[JoshTheOpinionated]

@LatterDayAint Some of us have and found your "research" lacking.

Your an unintelligent dweeb. All you can do is insult and laugh at people. You couldn't hold an intelligent discussion if your life depended on it.

Go back down into your mother's basement, boy.

[IExposeMormonism]

The Abraham Papyrus is not the word of God. It is J. Smiths mind. There is 200+ yrs of Egyptology to refer to this Common "Sen-Sen" text. THe date is wrong. the interpretation is wrong. Not a good score for a prophet

[dpapaioannow]

@JonasViotto25 uuuuhhhhhhmmmm...do you...think?before you speak?...type?whatever?ROOOFFF­FLLLLL

[LDSTrueChurch]

fairmormon . org / Book_of_Mormon_geography / Old_World

&

fairmormon . org / Book_of_Mormon_geography / New_World

Great places to start researching. The Book of Mormon IS true. I have done so much research. I know it's true.

There is allot more in that website, friend, God bless

You mock all you want to. D & C 123 the LORD blesses us everytime you do!

Agendas don't reveal truth, but cover the eyes of the people.

The church of Jesus christ is True!

FAIRLDSdotORG

[Exodus314IAM]

LDSTrueChurch,

So you want people to use your Mormon sources to show this video is false? And you say they are using bias sources.

This is like me saying check out carm(dot)org or MRM(dot)org and then there is always utlm(dot)org this is the same thing you are saying.

[LDSTrueChurch]

fairmormon . org / Book_of_Mormon_geography / Old_World

&

fairmormon . org / Book_of_Mormon_geography / New_World

Great places to start researching. The Book of Mormon IS true. I have done so much research. I know it's true.

There is allot more in that website, friend, God bless

[LDSTrueChurch]

Agendas don't reveal truth, but cover the eyes of the people.

The church of Jesus christ is True and the Book of Abraham is a real excerpt of Abraham's own hand!

[LatterDayAint]

LDSTrue Church, you can't be serious.

[LDSTrueChurch]

Please give the NAME of ONE

UNBIAS egyptologist who disagrees with MOST of Joseph Smith's translations?

the problem is that the so called egyptologists were funded by IRR and other ANTImormon groups. Which of course would be why YOU use them!

FAIRLDSdotORG

for the truth

[LatterDayAint]

LDSTrueChurch/Omiolo, there are hundreds of them. Do some research before you post your comments. Others have already responded to your previous comment: "Dr.Klaus Baer,Dr.Friedrich Freiheer,Richard Anthony Parker a prominent Egyptologist and professor of Egyptology at Brown University. Klaus Baer, Associate Professor of Egyptology at the University of Chicago. Wallis Budge the old curator of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities at the British Museum, London."

[LatterDayAint]

LDSTrueChurch- please define what you consider to be an unbiased Egyptologist.

[LDSTrueChurch]

someone that wasn't part of the IRR anti-Mormon funded groups.

[Sennenryu1]

Then YOU ask one. I can guarantee you that if these scientists are so immoral as to let the source of funding affect the outcome of their research, it still won't be unbiased. The bias will just swing the other way. However, if they actually take pride in their work uncovering the truth, I'm afraid you'll be very disappointed.

[IExposeMormonism]

LDSTC you sure type a lot like omiolo sometimes....Do you accept any reality that isnt defined by any LDS profit? Or any LDS "Scholar"? Are there any experts in anything qualified to speak on any subject unless they are LDS? Is any non mormon expert qualified to make any statements on LDS "reality". Perhaps if a TRUE Expert had attacked this issue and not J Smith he wouldn't look like a kangaroo on roller skates.

[omiolo]

Please give the NAME of ONE

UNBIAS egyptologist who disagrees with MOST of Joseph Smith's translations?

the problem is that the so called egyptologists were funded by IRR and other ANTImormon groups. Which of course would be why YOU use them!

[tezkingkong]

Dr.Klaus Baer,Dr.Friedrich Freiheer...There's two....Do some research omi,there's about another hundred or so...

[Exodus314IAM]

Hows about Richard Anthony Parker a prominent Egyptologist and professor of Egyptology at Brown University. Klaus Baer, Associate Professor of Egyptology at the University of Chicago. Wallis Budge the old curator of Egyptian and Assyrian antiquities at the British Museum, London.

[LDSTrueChurch]

The Egyptologists they wanna mention are not looking for truth, they have an agenda.