Haha, that's evidence of a god? Pffft. It's only the evidence that man has the ability to believe in a supreme being, like we see in all cultures. If you're born in one specific place your most likely to be a muslim, if you're born another place you'd be a hindu, etc. It's largely a cultural thing that's infected our species. I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to get you to explain what makes one god more likely than a thousand others. That alone should tell you it's an illusion.
@MysteryoftheGods No, that's comforting. Would you WANT to know that you were dead? THAT is chilling, my friend. Like eternal life. ETERNAL. What would you do after the first 100 000 years? Uugh.
@OnkelStein Hell yea I want to know that I am dead. In my spiritualistic beliefs of spiritualism, the afterlife is nothing but pure light and love. You wouldn't want to live in something like that?
@MysteryoftheGods Yes, of course I would want to. The problem is that your "beliefs" doesn't make it true, no matter how comforting the thought is. It's just a bi.product of the fact that we are the only species on earth that early on knows that we are going to die at some point in time. It is a cowardly stance in life.
@OnkelStein Okay, we aren't talking about if my beliefs are true or not (beliefs which I can validate), what I am arguing is that on a mindset where you have two options: 1) a loving afterlife with anything and everything you could want or 2) becoming nothingness, I will be the first one to point out that option 2 is frighting. I like who I am and I'd hate to lose it. That's not a validation for the other side nor is it proof, but that opinion of 2 is still something I hold.
@MysteryoftheGods Validate your beliefs, and you will be the first person in history to do so. A loving afterlife with anything and everything you could want is an utopia, and a thought that is purely constructed in your head to comfort you. How is "nothingness" bad if you don't have a consciounsness? Try to imagine what you felt like before you were born. That's right, you can't. That's what death is to me.
@MysteryoftheGods Furthermore, we won't become "nothingness". Everything in the universe is energy, and when you die the energy that is your being will transist into something else. Energy can't die, and thus we really are eternal (except we won't be having tea with our parents for the next 100 million years +++)
@OnkelStein Mkay well I know better than to answer Youtube posts for the fact that it always drags into a discussion that everyone else gets involved in, so I'll just accept that you have your beliefs and I have mine. I'm not running away, but if I had to debate everyone on Youtube who posted a comment like you did to me I would never get anything else done. So lets just accept each other's beliefs and accept that we both feel we have the right evidence to validate our own.
@MysteryoftheGods I don't care what imaginary friend you believe in, that's not the question. Jesus, Allah, Odin, Thor, Vishnu, Apollo, Zeus etc are all equally illogical and so obviously the works of men, and men alone. You live in a fantasy world, I'm afraid.
@OnkelStein Like I said, we both have our beliefs and the evidence to back it up, so while you try to insult me by saying I'm disillusion, I know we both have our views and beliefs.
@MysteryoftheGods Show me your evidence then. As I said, you would be the first person in history to do so. Believing something doesn't make it true, no matter how much you want it to be. Have a nice life in your bubble.
@OnkelStein Well a lot of people have shown it to be true in their labs, like Joseph Rhine of Duke University who was a pioneer in the paranormal research conducted by a university, but like I said, you have your beliefs. That's fine. I don't see why because I believe something and you belief in another you have to attack me, saying im in a bubble and, in effect, ignorant and delusional. That seems silly to me.
I would ignore anything trakkton below says as he has diarrhea for brain cells and unfortunatly still needs to evolve...or grow up along with all the other jesus hugging teddybear lovers.
Hitchens is wrong one more time. This ugly Cheerleader for genocide seems to forget that we do not know what happens after death, so all of his statements are false.
@trakkaton It's how many lessons not how much lessons, you retarded ass monkey. You have nothing to teach me, and you can keep your brain washing to yourself, that shit doesn't work on me.
i speak papiamentu,i am all the way from (BONAIRE) can you type in or speak my language clearly? i've asked u, where is jesus his body? show me jesus's body if it is not true
Because there are no jesi, no gods, no devils, no fairies, no dragons no ghosts, no angels, no shite-shaped soft 'n sugary soul-saving Santaclausian-styled saviours ...
@tellnet if there r no god then why bringing he's name up? how do u know that clown exist? well the same thing as god but can't compare jesus story's to a fairies ,ect ect story's.
@tellnet ahhaha it is ok my friend i'm not here to fight!!! u will see in the end of your life! my job is done i already told you about jesus, if u dont believe where is jesus his body?
@tellnet You obviously have yet to take an Arrow to the Knee whilst fighting off Dragons all the while being mobbed by demons. It's fine, Skyrim is not for everyone. If you want to destroy atheism then it's simple. Give them some factual, scientific evidence and not the writings of some ancient bardic creature that they are disputing in the first place. Personally, I take Stephen Fry's approach. If you makes you sleep better at night and feel being god fearing helps you from committing -
@LDNClan immoral crimes and sins then all the best with that. Personally, I don't follow any religion. I'd like to think that their is something behind it all but feel that religion does not provide anything to back the theory up. Hopefully one day Science could prove that there is something more and if it proves otherwise, hopefully we find a way for immortality because if there is nothing else then dying will be pretty crappier than it already is. Can anyone imagine if the Mormons were right?
@tellnet Actually the only part directed at you was the initial "You obviously have yet to take an Arrow to the Knee whilst fighting off Dragons all the while being mobbed by demons. It's fine, Skyrim is not for everyone." to counter your claims there are no dragons. I'm a geek, what can I say and I tend to type what I think and proof read once posted. Slightly backwards I'm aware. The rest is stated at any and all religious people that may be reading the comments. I apologize and I should -
@LDNClan made that clear when I initially posted. That said, I am operating roughly ten comments pages for various videos concerning Atheism, Theism and some Deism. So jumping back and fourth may take it's toll on me. Again, not directed at you personally Tellnet.
Replying to your own comment in order to extend length may look ok - on your screen - but the second part always comes first - for everyone else.
For better impact type all in notepad - copy the second part first and paste as the first part - then copy the first part and paste as the second part.
And the reader is less confused than the description just given because first will be first and second second.
@tellnet Who would have thought that by going through the comments on this particular video would enlighten me in anyway today. Thank you for the tip, I was not aware that the posts would appear in that way. Will certainly be helpful in the future. Kudos.
For my mom, she had ever more fleeting moments of awareness, but when they came I simply kept telling her that I loved her, that I was there for her, and that I appreciated everything she did for me. I hope someone says such comforting words to me when my time comes.
@TornadoCreator it doesn't matter my friend, i just told the truth, i've done my job for jesus! now it is your chance to share it, so ask jesus for forgivness! all of us is breathing the same air, eating the same food or maybe not but in end all of us will face the same thing>> death<<!! so that's why jesus want u repent before your time comes!
@OnkelStein yes i think for u n me!!! just pray to jesus just ask him for frogivness, don't u want to quit the game and start a new life? so ask jesus for? who do think is gonna save u?
I don't believe in heaven or hell. I am an atheist as much as he was. But I do believe in an afterlife is very possible. There is a good chance the universe will come back on itself and that time might start over again and again.
@dawtchins Not at first, my suspicion, which is of course by no means a conviction, is that the universe expands and collapses infinately and all data and material gets displaced in different forms. So most of the time our matter wouldn't be us and our information would be dispersed, but that through random probability existing infinately we eventually evolve again among all possible results. So we would come back zillions and zillions of years, with no memory.
@dawtchins most of the time our matter wouldn't be us. It'd just be assembled as molecules and elements in stars or others, but randomly eventually through infinity as the probability of infinity is all results automatically. There have been scientists who apparently hypothesized this and weirdly enough something like it was on the only episode of Futurama I have ever seen after somebody mentioned that episode.
@dawtchins it would explain how we could exist for the first time within infinity, when infinity means all results automatically happen. After all we are basically energy slowed down--the sum total result of randomness combined with scientific principles that probably never change (or if they somehow do they'd likely revert back eventually given there is probably no complete beginning to energy, and even before time a shift must have happened to create all this).
@MrNicMachiavelli Essentially that idea is plausable. The atoms that make us may one aeon come back together as another being. However, it won't be the same person or creature. Even though it would be.
What defines 'us' is memory and personality. And I think that if someone forgets who they are, that person is dead and a new person is inside that body. Because as far as that first person is concerned, he is no more and thinks no more.
@andromidius well the memory would eventually come back in the sense that we would eventually lead this life and others over whenever the possible situation comes up. Every possibility comes up over infinitely over all matter, which means we have had his conversation before, including in person. But it also leads to the concept what really are we? How are we defined? Which gets to be existential.
Even the Creator cannot offer comfort to the dying.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
If I never get to do so - would somebody please try and ask Christopher the following at a public appearance: 'As a follower of your arguments I find myself a born again atheist. Not quite so far as to accept Christopher Hitchens as my personal saviour, but reasonably close. Since my current position dictates a dwindling window of opportunity for unto this mammalian character, I waste no further time... What is your understanding of the etymology of the name by which you are most often called?
HITCHENS IS AN ELITE DEBATER FOR TRUTH AND HUMANITY. HE WEARS AN IMPENETRABLE? METAPHORIC ARMOR OF INTELLECT, LINGUISTIC PROWESS AND KNOWLEDGE, THAT HAS NOT BEEN BREACHED. FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE RELIGIOUS, A DEBATE AGAINST HITCH IS ALWAYS AN EMBARRASSING, HEADACHE PRODUCING DEBACLE AS THEY ARE SWEPT UP BY THE SYMPHONY OF LOGIC AND REASON ORCHESTRATED BY CHRISTOPHER. HE IS THE PIERCING LASER IN A ROOM OF DARKNESS AND WE ARE HIS REFRACTIVE MEANS BY WHICH THAT ROOM BECOMES DAY.HITCH,RESPECT!
Anyone who is scared of dying is not a true logical thinker. You watch any interview by great people, they welcome death because they aren't scared of there being nothing, because living is about the now.
@Anzacpaul Nonsense. I am scared of dying cause I love living. I live in the now and I do not wish to stop living, hence why I am 'scared' of dying. Does that make me less of a logical thinker? Most certainly not. I simply love life.
@LettuceReason He doesn't do it on a weekly basis like every religious leader. Hitchens speaks to more religious crowds than he does non-religious crowds. Maybe you should use reason before you try and use your YouTube name to promote it.
@LettuceReason You're right, he should walk right into a church and do it. He's done the only thing short of that, in fact- speaking at religious institutions all over the nation. What's wrong with having a little conversation in good company, anyway?
@scionicspectre No doubt! Conversation is great! Could you tell me the name or location of some of those religious institutions you mentioned? (just curious to see if anyone printed transcripts) Thanks.
@LettuceReason Prestonwood Christian Academy would be a quite recent one- a good example since the people at the school refused to let the recording out at first (it was presumed to be out of embarrassment for how the debate progressed for their position).
Another I can remember off the top of my head is Samford University with John Lennox. There are a couple more I can't immediately remember, but that should be a good start if you're researching it.
@scionicspectre I've heard Lennox speak. Brilliant man. Three doctorates in math and philosophy. I don't know anything about the Prestonwood Academy. Never heard of it before. Thanks.
'to go on living forever and ever'....like this....that's anathema...like this, with Russell and Nietzsche and your mother who died like that, like THIS...that's the horrible concept, Christopher..
In the beginning, the loving & compassionate God of the Old Testament spent focused moments of time developing an eternal abuse chamber that maximizes pain for every prisoner tortured in it. On the 6th day of creation, God created humans, in his image. God then went on to construct & enforce a set of laws, which contradict the behavioral nature of the humans. For 6,000 years, God has been casting his the majority of his beloved creation into the flames of his eternal torture chamber.
Topics: WINNING ARGUMENTS NOW ADDED For The Creationism-Evolutionism Debate (See Subchapter 10.2.2.), The Issue On The Criminal Liability Of Foretelling The END OF THE WORLD, Other Debated Issues, Terrorism, War, Law, Politics, Religion, Philosophy, Science, Others.
Websites: balanceddiet1.yolasite.com
See Figure 4, which is THE MEANING OF THE PYRAMID, at figure4etc.yolasite.com
See Announcements at announcements-balancedway.weebly.com
Agnostic is only if you believe in a greater power but don't worship it. There is no solid evidence for any such power or being, so atheism actually does work for someone who is open minded. If, at some point in the future, they start believing in a greater power, THEN they would be agnostic, assuming they don't worship it. For example, I'm an atheist who believes there MIGHT be something, but until something can prove it within reasonable doubt, I won't consider it existing.
Agnostic is the view that the truth claims of religion is unknown and unknowable, atheist is the faith that they are false. You are actually an agnostic, for an atheist would have simply claimed that religions are a lie and the world would be better off without them.
@81broncoman Your definitions are completely wrong. Agnostic is simply a lack of certainty about the true nature of a god or gods. Atheism is a lack of belief in any form of god. There are agnostic theists (Those who believe in god/s, but do not claim to know what form they take), as well as gnostic atheists (a claim of absolute certainty that there is no god/gods, which is just as unscientific an outlook as spirituality).
Atheism has no dogma or doctrine, and requires no faith. To be more specific, you posit that God exists. The burden of proof is then upon you to provide evidence to support that statement. Without it, your statement does not hold up to logical scrutiny, and must therefore be false.
To wit: It requires no more faith to reject the notion of a deity than it does to reject the notion of Bigfoot, Nessie, vampires or any other such superstitious nonsense. Faith in them must be instilled first.
Yeah it's pretty simple, tell them you love them, and that you will remember all the great moments, I am not 100% Athiest therefore I have an open mind,more an Agnostic, or I believe in the inner god, your own mind, but I will never lock myself into one religion as it is mind control, however I like to meditate as I have found it has been healthy for the mind.
@paddymourinho Thats an interesting statement. You appear to be saying that both athiests and theists are closed-minded which indicates that you consider yourself neither. By definition, those sets include all possible views on the existence of god/s (its a True/False question) so apparently you occupy a third viewpoint that is demonstrably impossible.
@binkasaurus You are spectacularly missing every point I'm throwing at you. You must be a wonderful baseball player. It's obviously behond your level of understanding, and seeing as you're in your thirties, it will most likely remain so. I won't waste any more of my time with you.
@paddymourinho You're wrong, an atheist will only believe in something if there is good evidence that it exists, that is not being closed minded in the slightest.
Thats actually called an Agnostic, a true Atheist holds a faith that there is no God and that all of the religious works in the Bible or other faiths are all lies. Hitchens is essentially an Atheist Prophet, his version of preaching is, after all, how he makes all of his money, by heaping his own dogma upon the masses and denouncing the dogma of other prophets past or present. I don't know if there is a God or not, but I don't think Chris Hitchens knows any better than I do either.
@81broncoman Not at all. An atheist "non-theist" simply rejects the hypothesis that gods exist. Just as I reject the hypothesis that the moon is made of cheese, or that Santa Claus exists, or any other weak propositions which come with no evidence attached. No faith is required to be an atheist. None.
You see, you can type that and think that it makes logical sense, but it just doesn't. We can prove that Santa doesn't exist and we know that the moon isn't made of cheese, but the evidence that comes with the Christian faith is that there were men thousands of years ago who preached the word of God and that it was backed up with impossible acts. You hold faith that this never happened, that the historical accounts and religious accounts of them are lies, that is Atheist Dogma.
"the evidence that comes with the Christian faith is that there were men thousands of years ago who preached the word of God and that it was backed up with impossible acts."
Your concept of "evidence" is utterly different from a thinking being's concept.
I suppose that your notion is that all thinking beings must be atheists then. Typical argumentative tactic when one has no real ammunition; imply that anybody who supports a given notion only holds it because they are in some way a deficient individual in either physical or mental capacity. Lets leave the third grade insults at the third grade level shall we...
Nice equivocation on the definition of "thinking". However, I'm willing to support that caricature of myself, at least partially. I shall borrow from your succinct verbiage:
Evidence for certain historical happenings is certain. The jump from various conflicts, conquests, and disasters to an interpretation of the Bible as fact (in particular, the divinity of Jesus and the existence of God) is something no rational being (3rd graders, too!) can make.
Again, just another round-about dig at the intelligence of those who take the teachings and events of the bible as being more than just lies and deceit. There are Syrian historical records, Egyptian records, Roman records, and others not associated with Christianity or Judaism which do support the basic events of biblical text. For some reason people don't doubt that other events of the period, such as the Greek stand at Thermopylae, actually happened.
Not round-about at all. Very few people doubt much of the *history* described, however spottily, anecdotally, and anachronistically in the Bible. That's because there are corroborating texts, and -- get this! -- physical evidence.
Now, answer the actual question: What *preachings* are supported by evidence?
@81broncoman It is scientifically and mathematically impossible to prove the NON-existence of anything. You can try to argue with this if you wish, but you'd be wasting your time. Hence, we do not need to disprove the existence of God. We have empirical data that shows for a fact what the moon's composition is. But we cannot actually disprove the existence of Santa, any more than we can God. You cannot disprove that there is no blue-furred, fire-breathing mammoth roaming Antarctica right now.
@81broncoman There is reasonable faith and there is unreasonable faith. The former is based on established patterns. The point is that belief in the supernatural (in any form) is irrational and points to nothing short of a severe deficiency in critical thinking skills.
Q: "Does God exist?"
A: "Not that anyone's been able to find any evidence for."
Anyone who still concludes that God exists in spite of this fact simply cannot be taken be taken seriously. Period.
@MoriyaMug Unfortunately, and by your own standard, you can no longer be taken seriously. Established patterns and science show us there is not a person on earth who does not hold some belief contrary to or not supported by established facts. Unless you are the only infallible human to have ever existed, you and everyone else has a severe deficiency in critical thinking skills. By your standard of course.
@tmoallen To my knowledge, I have no beliefs not based established facts, or extrapolated thereupon. The crucial difference between myself and the religious, however, is that if I can be shown that the facts do not support (or more to the point, blatantly contradict) my outlook, I will change my stance.
Now, since you say you're backed by "established patterns and science," please do cite credible sources. Or is this where you start equivocating?
@MoriyaMug Oh my Jebus, you just appealed to your own knowledge as the highest authority. That's false belief # 1. # 2: Argument from authority replaces logic. # 3: People will waste time with sources even though I provide all the fodder. # 4: People will not laugh at me when I claim all my beliefs are established fact. We've just established a list of laughable, false beliefs you hold. And look, no sources needed but yourself! Pick up a book on epistemology, those writers are paid to cite.
@tmoallen Would you have preferred I wrote, "to my present awareness?" That is what I meant, which I'm comfortably certain you were able to glean. No outside entity has better knowledge of me than myself, particularly not some random (and possibly made-up) statistic. You're arguing semantics, just as you were when you respond to a 3-month-old post... with an ad hominem attack, no less. And please, let's not bore each other with an argument about the definition of the term. Just go away.
But there doesn't need to be (empirical) evidence to believe that something exists. Take numbers or abstract objects. Mathematicians think they exist without any (empirical) evidence. So there must be a better argument.
@Popikawaii Ok, let's be more precise. Some mathematicians are realists and think numbers really exist as abstract objects and other mathematicians are constructivists and think numbers are man made.
@baseballplayer1251 For any rational person to think something is real, there must be evidence for it. Everything we encounter. Most 'supernatural' occurances have been explained, from ghosts to 'miracles'. Numbers are a human constructs and abstract objects are not really anything but ideas, formed when our brain neurons fire up and produce thought. I think evidence is needed for any and every claim.
@baseballplayer1251 That's because "All bachelors are unmarried" is an affirmative subject-predicate judgment. One term implicitly contains the other within it's definition (bachelor is, by definition, a subset of unmarried).
Google analytic/synthetic dichotomy. You cannot conflate a statement like "all bachelors are unmarried" with something like "all bachelors are drivers",
@rabidsi I know that and I was already one step further. I was showing that there is a difference. My argument is not silly, you simply didn't understand it. Go back to your cave.
The point it became silly was when you rebuffed the previous poster for his position that empirical evidence is a necessity for claims of the existence of a "something" that should have an effect on the material world we exist in (which is clearly the thrust of his argument). He's clearly not talking about non-material, abstract concepts. Bringing them up just makes you look the pedant.
@rabidsi It was an answer to his claim that "I think evidence is needed for any and every claim.", which is false and I showed an example why. That's perfectly ok.
By the way, which evidence does he offer for the claim above? None. But he doesn't need to, since not every claim needs evidence.
@baseballplayer1251 I would say, at the core, every claim does need evidence. A person may not require proof if its a relatively mundane claim, but let's say its related to a criminal court case. Then you'd definately need to prove you did something mundane, and you'd be able to do it (even if its awkward and time consuming) for most things.
What we think can't be proven. But it doesn't make it right either, even if you think it is.
Every pantheon we now regard as myth was once held as true. Why do you suppose the Greco-Roman gods are no longer worshipped, or the Norse gods? Consider why you regard the idea of worshipping them as unrealistic, and you will know exactly how we feel about the Judeo-Christian notion of god.
The reason why Judeo-Christian faith makes sense to many people around the world is because there are well-documented events in the past that support its preachings, while there are none for Norse gods or Roman gods.
P.S. If you really want to do some good in the world, why don't you Atheist Preachers go to Iran or Pakistan and try to spread the good faith of Atheism there, instead of sticking with the soft target that is the western world.
What would u feel about living any longer, after 10000 years ?
When u have learned everything there is to learn, u have done everything there are to do. When u have spent thousands of years with the ones u once loved. After all that, how would u fill up your days ?
Some try to answer this so boldly with "You have no perception of time in heaven."
REALLY ? If u live, then I guess u have an understanding of time.
I think living, with all its feelings and thoughts and experiences is worth it no matter how boring it gets or how much suffering i have to outstand, existance is for me something wonderful in itself
I actually work as a chaplain (albeit a "humanist chaplain") And I couldn't have said it better than Christopher did. Having worked with ill, addicted or dying patients for 20 some years- I have actually found that the question asked isn't a valid one really. When one joins a dying person bed-side one does just that- join them and merely be a witness to the process. Most everything, otherwise, one CAN say is either coy, condescending or a cliche. The best thing to say is I love you and goodbye.
I should tell them that, 'I don't know what happens, if anything, but neither does ANYONE else'. Certainly I should not tell them that it's over to God now, whether you end up in 'paradise' or burn in agony in hell for eternity...just to remind you before you die. So, in many ways, I think what is not said is more compassionate than what is.
@darkilustrisimus I'm an atheist too but if hell is what every religion says it is i'd rather stop existing. I'd rather have a never-ending innocuous blackness than be tortured for eternity lol. I'd take the neutral over the negative.
I would say to a dying friend "You were the best part of my life where I could rely on someone..Alot of ppl can't say they had a true friend that will do almost anything to make sure that there buddy is well...But I CAN...thank you my friend" then buy pizza and bring it to the hospital and watch movies...and tell the nurse to go fuck herself..I tell her when visiting hours are over...!!!
wish i was ignorant enough to follow a religion written by a single prophet with enough balls to say god told him its ok to have sex with his followers wives
if ignorance is bliss that would thats really really bliss
Living for all eternity is a form of immortality, which is selfish. It doesn't matter what happens to me when I die, because it's not about me, it's about something greater. It's about giving back as much as I can while I exist to help ensure that humans, all creatures big and small, or at minimum, life as a whole in some shape or form continues; so that when I'm gone, those whom come after me can take their turn to experience how wondrous it is to exist.
@doughd99 Yes which is why it's better than roasting in Hell and praising the dear leader for ETERNITY with a bunch of people I would loathe in Heaven, e.g. the Westboro baptist church and a tonne of dogmatic idiots from the middle ages.
@doughd99 I'm not suggesting I'm going to be enjoying being in oblivion, nothingness, just that with forsight I can determine that it is the best option. I would rather not exist than be a subject forever in a torturous (both would be for me) realm. Am I missing something metaphysical here?
@LowleyUK Yes, you are missing something metaphysical. The question, as I see it, is: how do you phrase the language of oblivion without presupposing something about "it." But, as you can see, this is impossible. Oblivion has no context with which to phrase! I cannot even call "it," "it," because "it" "is-not." Because oblivion is metaphysically impossible to understand, it cannot be spoken of intelligently. Thus, it cannot be used accurately in a comparison.
@doughd99 I fully understand what you are saying but I think you are looking into it too deeply, though you are mostly right in what you are saying. But the key point is that Oblivion can be understood. It is the lack of consciousness - I would prefer that to concepts of Heaven and Hell.
@LowleyUK furthermore, is it not strange to compare non existance to anything at all? Saying "I wish I were never born" implies that you would have been better if you were not born- but this is impossible, because there would be no you in this case..
@doughd99 Sorry but I fail to understand you on this point, and it strikes me as a bit solipsistic. It is perfectly reasonable and logical to wish you were never born. Sufferring can be measured and equally avoided by never existing.
@doughd99 Oblivion is what existed in your consciousness before you were conceived (nothing). So it is perfectly logical to want that "nothing" which we have already, to some extent, experienced (or not experienced) over burning in hellfire for eternity.
@metyzermanfan19 You dont understand. Oblivion, doesnt exist. Thus it did not exist "in my consciousness," before I was concieved, or at any time, anywhere, at all, ever.
You cant compare nothing to anything. It would be like saying would you like ______________ or apples? It doesnt make any sense gramatically, or logically. Socrates explained this in the apology, Heidegger goes into this in Being and Time. Read a book. Non-existance doesnt exist. Its a definitional truth. Duhhhhhh
@doughd99 You just proved my point. Telling me that nothing is nothing proves, well, nothing. I am saying it would be better to have _____________ than hell. You cannot tell me I don't understand something when you don't even understand MY concept, however, I understand yours. And as far as reading a book goes, please, save your intellectual superiority complex for someone else. Name-dropping Socrates and prominent German philosophers doesn't make your argument more valid, it makes it less so.
@doughd99 Maybe next time I'll tell you to read the works of Machiavelli or Confucius to help me look smarter than I really am.. You're a fraud, douchebag.
Haha, that's evidence of a god? Pffft. It's only the evidence that man has the ability to believe in a supreme being, like we see in all cultures. If you're born in one specific place your most likely to be a muslim, if you're born another place you'd be a hindu, etc. It's largely a cultural thing that's infected our species. I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to get you to explain what makes one god more likely than a thousand others. That alone should tell you it's an illusion.
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
"You're not going to know that you're dead"...thats so fucking chilling >.<
MysteryoftheGods 3 weeks ago
@MysteryoftheGods No, that's comforting. Would you WANT to know that you were dead? THAT is chilling, my friend. Like eternal life. ETERNAL. What would you do after the first 100 000 years? Uugh.
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
@OnkelStein Hell yea I want to know that I am dead. In my spiritualistic beliefs of spiritualism, the afterlife is nothing but pure light and love. You wouldn't want to live in something like that?
MysteryoftheGods 3 weeks ago
@MysteryoftheGods Yes, of course I would want to. The problem is that your "beliefs" doesn't make it true, no matter how comforting the thought is. It's just a bi.product of the fact that we are the only species on earth that early on knows that we are going to die at some point in time. It is a cowardly stance in life.
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
@OnkelStein Okay, we aren't talking about if my beliefs are true or not (beliefs which I can validate), what I am arguing is that on a mindset where you have two options: 1) a loving afterlife with anything and everything you could want or 2) becoming nothingness, I will be the first one to point out that option 2 is frighting. I like who I am and I'd hate to lose it. That's not a validation for the other side nor is it proof, but that opinion of 2 is still something I hold.
MysteryoftheGods 3 weeks ago
@MysteryoftheGods Validate your beliefs, and you will be the first person in history to do so. A loving afterlife with anything and everything you could want is an utopia, and a thought that is purely constructed in your head to comfort you. How is "nothingness" bad if you don't have a consciounsness? Try to imagine what you felt like before you were born. That's right, you can't. That's what death is to me.
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
@MysteryoftheGods Furthermore, we won't become "nothingness". Everything in the universe is energy, and when you die the energy that is your being will transist into something else. Energy can't die, and thus we really are eternal (except we won't be having tea with our parents for the next 100 million years +++)
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
@OnkelStein Mkay well I know better than to answer Youtube posts for the fact that it always drags into a discussion that everyone else gets involved in, so I'll just accept that you have your beliefs and I have mine. I'm not running away, but if I had to debate everyone on Youtube who posted a comment like you did to me I would never get anything else done. So lets just accept each other's beliefs and accept that we both feel we have the right evidence to validate our own.
MysteryoftheGods 3 weeks ago
@MysteryoftheGods "I have no arguments to support my case, therefore I will vanish from this discussion" *pooof*
I hope Jesus is proud of your behaviour =)
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
@OnkelStein *Not a Christian*
MysteryoftheGods 3 weeks ago
@MysteryoftheGods I don't care what imaginary friend you believe in, that's not the question. Jesus, Allah, Odin, Thor, Vishnu, Apollo, Zeus etc are all equally illogical and so obviously the works of men, and men alone. You live in a fantasy world, I'm afraid.
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
@OnkelStein Like I said, we both have our beliefs and the evidence to back it up, so while you try to insult me by saying I'm disillusion, I know we both have our views and beliefs.
MysteryoftheGods 3 weeks ago
@MysteryoftheGods Show me your evidence then. As I said, you would be the first person in history to do so. Believing something doesn't make it true, no matter how much you want it to be. Have a nice life in your bubble.
OnkelStein 3 weeks ago
@OnkelStein Well a lot of people have shown it to be true in their labs, like Joseph Rhine of Duke University who was a pioneer in the paranormal research conducted by a university, but like I said, you have your beliefs. That's fine. I don't see why because I believe something and you belief in another you have to attack me, saying im in a bubble and, in effect, ignorant and delusional. That seems silly to me.
MysteryoftheGods 3 weeks ago
I would ignore anything trakkton below says as he has diarrhea for brain cells and unfortunatly still needs to evolve...or grow up along with all the other jesus hugging teddybear lovers.
arniemazmax 3 weeks ago
Me: "Dude, if there is one, could next life be any worse than this?"
UltimatePlayer000001 1 month ago
Hitchens is wrong one more time. This ugly Cheerleader for genocide seems to forget that we do not know what happens after death, so all of his statements are false.
trakkaton 1 month ago
@trakkaton lol.
etesianSealine 1 month ago
@etesianSealine Exactly.
daemonowner 1 month ago
@trakkaton I can without a doubt say that you haven't understood anything about Hitchens.
YoNiQe 1 month ago
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@YoNiQe I can without a doubt say that you haven't understood anything about Hitchens.
trakkaton 1 month ago
@trakkaton After your death you wont know shit, you will be dead.
TheRenekruse 1 month ago
@TheRenekruse
Pure conjecture.
trakkaton 4 weeks ago
@trakkaton No.
TheRenekruse 4 weeks ago
@TheRenekruse
I don't even want to think about how much private lessons you'd need to even understand the problem...
trakkaton 4 weeks ago
@trakkaton It's how many lessons not how much lessons, you retarded ass monkey. You have nothing to teach me, and you can keep your brain washing to yourself, that shit doesn't work on me.
TheRenekruse 4 weeks ago
i speak papiamentu,i am all the way from (BONAIRE) can you type in or speak my language clearly? i've asked u, where is jesus his body? show me jesus's body if it is not true
MOB662100 1 month ago
y am i a clown? why always it is about jesus n god? speak about the devil is he a cool guy? why do u go against jesus and god?
MOB662100 1 month ago
@MOB662100
Because there are no jesi, no gods, no devils, no fairies, no dragons no ghosts, no angels, no shite-shaped soft 'n sugary soul-saving Santaclausian-styled saviours ...
But there are Clowns..
,,like you.
tellnet 1 month ago 2
@tellnet if there r no god then why bringing he's name up? how do u know that clown exist? well the same thing as god but can't compare jesus story's to a fairies ,ect ect story's.
MOB662100 1 month ago
@MOB662100
"if there r no god then why bringing he's name up?"
"how do u know that clown exist?".
.
I do not answer stupid questions.
.
Ask a psychiatrist.
.
tellnet 1 month ago
@tellnet ahhaha it is ok my friend i'm not here to fight!!! u will see in the end of your life! my job is done i already told you about jesus, if u dont believe where is jesus his body?
MOB662100 1 month ago
@MOB662100
""if u dont believe where is jesus his body?
.
I repeat: I do NOT answer STUPID questions.
See a psychiatrist.
tellnet 1 month ago
@tellnet You obviously have yet to take an Arrow to the Knee whilst fighting off Dragons all the while being mobbed by demons. It's fine, Skyrim is not for everyone. If you want to destroy atheism then it's simple. Give them some factual, scientific evidence and not the writings of some ancient bardic creature that they are disputing in the first place. Personally, I take Stephen Fry's approach. If you makes you sleep better at night and feel being god fearing helps you from committing -
LDNClan 1 month ago
@LDNClan immoral crimes and sins then all the best with that. Personally, I don't follow any religion. I'd like to think that their is something behind it all but feel that religion does not provide anything to back the theory up. Hopefully one day Science could prove that there is something more and if it proves otherwise, hopefully we find a way for immortality because if there is nothing else then dying will be pretty crappier than it already is. Can anyone imagine if the Mormons were right?
LDNClan 1 month ago
@LDNClan
I can only assume that you did not understand that I was quoting the gobshite I was addressing...
Or,,, you are replying to the wrong individual.
I am a staunch Atheist.
No time for nonsense.
tellnet 1 month ago
@tellnet Actually the only part directed at you was the initial "You obviously have yet to take an Arrow to the Knee whilst fighting off Dragons all the while being mobbed by demons. It's fine, Skyrim is not for everyone." to counter your claims there are no dragons. I'm a geek, what can I say and I tend to type what I think and proof read once posted. Slightly backwards I'm aware. The rest is stated at any and all religious people that may be reading the comments. I apologize and I should -
LDNClan 1 month ago
@LDNClan made that clear when I initially posted. That said, I am operating roughly ten comments pages for various videos concerning Atheism, Theism and some Deism. So jumping back and fourth may take it's toll on me. Again, not directed at you personally Tellnet.
LDNClan 1 month ago
@LDNClan
Replying to your own comment in order to extend length may look ok - on your screen - but the second part always comes first - for everyone else.
For better impact type all in notepad - copy the second part first and paste as the first part - then copy the first part and paste as the second part.
And the reader is less confused than the description just given because first will be first and second second.
tellnet 1 month ago
@tellnet Who would have thought that by going through the comments on this particular video would enlighten me in anyway today. Thank you for the tip, I was not aware that the posts would appear in that way. Will certainly be helpful in the future. Kudos.
LDNClan 1 month ago
Err... I'm actually not the one who is particularly asked to be... ahem...
Zleec 1 month ago
I spose it'd be alright to live forever so long as you've got stuff to do. Otherwise, no.
TheKlink 1 month ago
For my mom, she had ever more fleeting moments of awareness, but when they came I simply kept telling her that I loved her, that I was there for her, and that I appreciated everything she did for me. I hope someone says such comforting words to me when my time comes.
skyblazer7 1 month ago
I honestly don't know what i would say but i damn sure wouldn't offer any false promises!
dkthg 1 month ago
good question!!!! not a good answer!!! people it is obvious, please wake up
MOB662100 1 month ago
@MOB662100
You would tell a dying person to "please wake up", something tells me that's not going to work.
TornadoCreator 1 month ago
@TornadoCreator it will always work if ask u jesus for forgivness if u want repent from your sins!!! that's what jesus told us to do REPENT
MOB662100 1 month ago
@MOB662100
No-one cares what your imaginary friend says.
TornadoCreator 1 month ago
@TornadoCreator it doesn't matter my friend, i just told the truth, i've done my job for jesus! now it is your chance to share it, so ask jesus for forgivness! all of us is breathing the same air, eating the same food or maybe not but in end all of us will face the same thing>> death<<!! so that's why jesus want u repent before your time comes!
MOB662100 1 month ago
@MOB662100 Why must we repent if Jesus already died for all our sins? Seems a bit redundant, don't you think?
OnkelStein 1 month ago
@OnkelStein yes i think for u n me!!! just pray to jesus just ask him for frogivness, don't u want to quit the game and start a new life? so ask jesus for? who do think is gonna save u?
MOB662100 1 month ago
@MOB662100 Your a clown
TheBrockster88 1 month ago
RIP
magicsoundify 1 month ago
His last line suggests he wasn't a very happy man while he was alive - RIP Christopher ;)
Kenmorfdublin 1 month ago
I don't believe in heaven or hell. I am an atheist as much as he was. But I do believe in an afterlife is very possible. There is a good chance the universe will come back on itself and that time might start over again and again.
MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago
@MrNicMachiavelli Whats the evidence? it may be oscillating and didnt come into being but we wouldnt be back . just other life if it survives
dawtchins 1 month ago
@dawtchins Not at first, my suspicion, which is of course by no means a conviction, is that the universe expands and collapses infinately and all data and material gets displaced in different forms. So most of the time our matter wouldn't be us and our information would be dispersed, but that through random probability existing infinately we eventually evolve again among all possible results. So we would come back zillions and zillions of years, with no memory.
MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago
@dawtchins most of the time our matter wouldn't be us. It'd just be assembled as molecules and elements in stars or others, but randomly eventually through infinity as the probability of infinity is all results automatically. There have been scientists who apparently hypothesized this and weirdly enough something like it was on the only episode of Futurama I have ever seen after somebody mentioned that episode.
MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago
@dawtchins it would explain how we could exist for the first time within infinity, when infinity means all results automatically happen. After all we are basically energy slowed down--the sum total result of randomness combined with scientific principles that probably never change (or if they somehow do they'd likely revert back eventually given there is probably no complete beginning to energy, and even before time a shift must have happened to create all this).
MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago
@MrNicMachiavelli Essentially that idea is plausable. The atoms that make us may one aeon come back together as another being. However, it won't be the same person or creature. Even though it would be.
What defines 'us' is memory and personality. And I think that if someone forgets who they are, that person is dead and a new person is inside that body. Because as far as that first person is concerned, he is no more and thinks no more.
Interesting concept though.
andromidius 1 month ago
@andromidius well the memory would eventually come back in the sense that we would eventually lead this life and others over whenever the possible situation comes up. Every possibility comes up over infinitely over all matter, which means we have had his conversation before, including in person. But it also leads to the concept what really are we? How are we defined? Which gets to be existential.
MrNicMachiavelli 1 month ago
A brilliant mind has been lost today. Don't rest in peace, Hitch. I won't pray for you.
NietzschePan 2 months ago
To those in doubt and question, read the book "Heaven is for Real". This is non-fictional and rated #1 by many.
Schultvie 2 months ago
@Schultvie I've already read it and it's not very convincing.
yoking456 2 months ago
Rest in peace comrade.
roystonito 2 months ago
Even the Creator cannot offer comfort to the dying.
The Creator has posted a video on YouTube. The message comes to you directly, without the need for transcription or interpretation by iron-age scribes, or analysis by Stephen Hawking.
The video tells you how you came to be here, outlines the meaning and purpose of your life, and gives you an insight into the future of humankind.
See ' God says sorry. '
lacontrabasse 2 months ago
Thumbs if you have accepted CH as your personal saviour.
misell349 2 months ago
If I never get to do so - would somebody please try and ask Christopher the following at a public appearance: 'As a follower of your arguments I find myself a born again atheist. Not quite so far as to accept Christopher Hitchens as my personal saviour, but reasonably close. Since my current position dictates a dwindling window of opportunity for unto this mammalian character, I waste no further time... What is your understanding of the etymology of the name by which you are most often called?
misell349 2 months ago
What a stupid question!!!
smogunner 3 months ago
HITCHENS IS AN ELITE DEBATER FOR TRUTH AND HUMANITY. HE WEARS AN IMPENETRABLE? METAPHORIC ARMOR OF INTELLECT, LINGUISTIC PROWESS AND KNOWLEDGE, THAT HAS NOT BEEN BREACHED. FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE RELIGIOUS, A DEBATE AGAINST HITCH IS ALWAYS AN EMBARRASSING, HEADACHE PRODUCING DEBACLE AS THEY ARE SWEPT UP BY THE SYMPHONY OF LOGIC AND REASON ORCHESTRATED BY CHRISTOPHER. HE IS THE PIERCING LASER IN A ROOM OF DARKNESS AND WE ARE HIS REFRACTIVE MEANS BY WHICH THAT ROOM BECOMES DAY.HITCH,RESPECT!
699backstab 3 months ago
Anyone who is scared of dying is not a true logical thinker. You watch any interview by great people, they welcome death because they aren't scared of there being nothing, because living is about the now.
Anzacpaul 4 months ago
@Anzacpaul Nonsense. I am scared of dying cause I love living. I live in the now and I do not wish to stop living, hence why I am 'scared' of dying. Does that make me less of a logical thinker? Most certainly not. I simply love life.
Direksone 4 months ago
@LettuceReason He doesn't do it on a weekly basis like every religious leader. Hitchens speaks to more religious crowds than he does non-religious crowds. Maybe you should use reason before you try and use your YouTube name to promote it.
MRoane41 5 months ago
Hitchens continues to preach to his choir.
LettuceReason 5 months ago
@LettuceReason You're right, he should walk right into a church and do it. He's done the only thing short of that, in fact- speaking at religious institutions all over the nation. What's wrong with having a little conversation in good company, anyway?
scionicspectre 5 months ago
@scionicspectre No doubt! Conversation is great! Could you tell me the name or location of some of those religious institutions you mentioned? (just curious to see if anyone printed transcripts) Thanks.
LettuceReason 4 months ago
@LettuceReason Prestonwood Christian Academy would be a quite recent one- a good example since the people at the school refused to let the recording out at first (it was presumed to be out of embarrassment for how the debate progressed for their position).
Another I can remember off the top of my head is Samford University with John Lennox. There are a couple more I can't immediately remember, but that should be a good start if you're researching it.
scionicspectre 4 months ago
@scionicspectre I've heard Lennox speak. Brilliant man. Three doctorates in math and philosophy. I don't know anything about the Prestonwood Academy. Never heard of it before. Thanks.
LettuceReason 4 months ago
@AstronomyGuru1 haha, nice quote. mark twain always has the best quotes :)
charliepossenriede 6 months ago
'to go on living forever and ever'....like this....that's anathema...like this, with Russell and Nietzsche and your mother who died like that, like THIS...that's the horrible concept, Christopher..
Bumblefoot69 6 months ago
In the beginning, the loving & compassionate God of the Old Testament spent focused moments of time developing an eternal abuse chamber that maximizes pain for every prisoner tortured in it. On the 6th day of creation, God created humans, in his image. God then went on to construct & enforce a set of laws, which contradict the behavioral nature of the humans. For 6,000 years, God has been casting his the majority of his beloved creation into the flames of his eternal torture chamber.
EvolvedParadigm 6 months ago
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TheServiceWeb 6 months ago
@81broncoman
Agnostic is only if you believe in a greater power but don't worship it. There is no solid evidence for any such power or being, so atheism actually does work for someone who is open minded. If, at some point in the future, they start believing in a greater power, THEN they would be agnostic, assuming they don't worship it. For example, I'm an atheist who believes there MIGHT be something, but until something can prove it within reasonable doubt, I won't consider it existing.
truekinggrim 7 months ago
@truekinggrim
Agnostic is not a belief in a great power, and choosing not to worship it. Not at all. Not even close.
Nickodemusodurn 7 months ago
@truekinggrim
Agnostic is the view that the truth claims of religion is unknown and unknowable, atheist is the faith that they are false. You are actually an agnostic, for an atheist would have simply claimed that religions are a lie and the world would be better off without them.
81broncoman 6 months ago
@81broncoman Your definitions are completely wrong. Agnostic is simply a lack of certainty about the true nature of a god or gods. Atheism is a lack of belief in any form of god. There are agnostic theists (Those who believe in god/s, but do not claim to know what form they take), as well as gnostic atheists (a claim of absolute certainty that there is no god/gods, which is just as unscientific an outlook as spirituality).
MoriyaMug 6 months ago
Atheism has no dogma or doctrine, and requires no faith. To be more specific, you posit that God exists. The burden of proof is then upon you to provide evidence to support that statement. Without it, your statement does not hold up to logical scrutiny, and must therefore be false.
To wit: It requires no more faith to reject the notion of a deity than it does to reject the notion of Bigfoot, Nessie, vampires or any other such superstitious nonsense. Faith in them must be instilled first.
MoriyaMug 6 months ago
I would try to tell them that they should have no regrets or something. To not be sad. It's very hard, as I have not accepted my own mortality yet.
FHomeBrew 7 months ago
Hitchens has to be one of the smartest and most respectable men to ever walk the Earth.
theatlantisrise 7 months ago 58
@theatlantisrise on earth?, hell no r u fuking insane.
jkdxtr321 3 months ago
@theatlantisrise agreed but check those socks out
Jupe1873 2 months ago
@theatlantisrise I'm not sure about either of those. He's bloody brilliant though.
TweekDash 1 month ago
I would say: Ive never known you to be a quitter, now finish what you've started.
dfhdjlfh 7 months ago
Yeah it's pretty simple, tell them you love them, and that you will remember all the great moments, I am not 100% Athiest therefore I have an open mind,more an Agnostic, or I believe in the inner god, your own mind, but I will never lock myself into one religion as it is mind control, however I like to meditate as I have found it has been healthy for the mind.
OZSveiks 7 months ago
Athiests are begining to sound ridiculous.Their minds are equally as closed as the religious folk that they hate so much
paddymourinho 7 months ago
@paddymourinho Thats an interesting statement. You appear to be saying that both athiests and theists are closed-minded which indicates that you consider yourself neither. By definition, those sets include all possible views on the existence of god/s (its a True/False question) so apparently you occupy a third viewpoint that is demonstrably impossible.
And you think others have closed their minds?
binkasaurus 7 months ago
@binkasaurus 1. Deism is a third option in you're athiest-theist paradigm. But that was not what I said in the first place.
2. An extream believe in the non existance of god is as closed minded and dangerous as an extream believe in the existance of one particular god.
3. Just because you use words like 'demonstrably' does not give you're position more authority.
Bye bye now
paddymourinho 7 months ago
@paddymourinho 1. Deism is a belief in the existence of god/s and would classify people who hold that view as "religious folk", so it still applies.
2. An extreme view (ie. certainty) on any point, like the view that athiests are closed-minded, is closed-minded.
3. No, but it does make it grammatically correct while emphasising my point. Much like your use of "paradigm" ;)
binkasaurus 7 months ago
@binkasaurus You are spectacularly missing every point I'm throwing at you. You must be a wonderful baseball player. It's obviously behond your level of understanding, and seeing as you're in your thirties, it will most likely remain so. I won't waste any more of my time with you.
paddymourinho 7 months ago
@paddymourinho You're wrong, an atheist will only believe in something if there is good evidence that it exists, that is not being closed minded in the slightest.
LowleyUK 7 months ago
@LowleyUK
Thats actually called an Agnostic, a true Atheist holds a faith that there is no God and that all of the religious works in the Bible or other faiths are all lies. Hitchens is essentially an Atheist Prophet, his version of preaching is, after all, how he makes all of his money, by heaping his own dogma upon the masses and denouncing the dogma of other prophets past or present. I don't know if there is a God or not, but I don't think Chris Hitchens knows any better than I do either.
81broncoman 7 months ago
@81broncoman Not at all. An atheist "non-theist" simply rejects the hypothesis that gods exist. Just as I reject the hypothesis that the moon is made of cheese, or that Santa Claus exists, or any other weak propositions which come with no evidence attached. No faith is required to be an atheist. None.
Daz555Daz 6 months ago
@Daz555Daz
You see, you can type that and think that it makes logical sense, but it just doesn't. We can prove that Santa doesn't exist and we know that the moon isn't made of cheese, but the evidence that comes with the Christian faith is that there were men thousands of years ago who preached the word of God and that it was backed up with impossible acts. You hold faith that this never happened, that the historical accounts and religious accounts of them are lies, that is Atheist Dogma.
81broncoman 6 months ago
@81broncoman
"the evidence that comes with the Christian faith is that there were men thousands of years ago who preached the word of God and that it was backed up with impossible acts."
Your concept of "evidence" is utterly different from a thinking being's concept.
MsCoralline 6 months ago
@MsCoralline
I suppose that your notion is that all thinking beings must be atheists then. Typical argumentative tactic when one has no real ammunition; imply that anybody who supports a given notion only holds it because they are in some way a deficient individual in either physical or mental capacity. Lets leave the third grade insults at the third grade level shall we...
81broncoman 6 months ago
@81broncoman
Nice equivocation on the definition of "thinking". However, I'm willing to support that caricature of myself, at least partially. I shall borrow from your succinct verbiage:
Evidence for certain historical happenings is certain. The jump from various conflicts, conquests, and disasters to an interpretation of the Bible as fact (in particular, the divinity of Jesus and the existence of God) is something no rational being (3rd graders, too!) can make.
MsCoralline 6 months ago
@MsCoralline
Again, just another round-about dig at the intelligence of those who take the teachings and events of the bible as being more than just lies and deceit. There are Syrian historical records, Egyptian records, Roman records, and others not associated with Christianity or Judaism which do support the basic events of biblical text. For some reason people don't doubt that other events of the period, such as the Greek stand at Thermopylae, actually happened.
81broncoman 6 months ago
@81broncoman
Not round-about at all. Very few people doubt much of the *history* described, however spottily, anecdotally, and anachronistically in the Bible. That's because there are corroborating texts, and -- get this! -- physical evidence.
Now, answer the actual question: What *preachings* are supported by evidence?
MsCoralline 6 months ago
@81broncoman It is scientifically and mathematically impossible to prove the NON-existence of anything. You can try to argue with this if you wish, but you'd be wasting your time. Hence, we do not need to disprove the existence of God. We have empirical data that shows for a fact what the moon's composition is. But we cannot actually disprove the existence of Santa, any more than we can God. You cannot disprove that there is no blue-furred, fire-breathing mammoth roaming Antarctica right now.
MoriyaMug 6 months ago
@MoriyaMug
Thats why they call it FAITH Moiriya, instead of facts.
81broncoman 6 months ago
@81broncoman There is reasonable faith and there is unreasonable faith. The former is based on established patterns. The point is that belief in the supernatural (in any form) is irrational and points to nothing short of a severe deficiency in critical thinking skills.
Q: "Does God exist?"
A: "Not that anyone's been able to find any evidence for."
Anyone who still concludes that God exists in spite of this fact simply cannot be taken be taken seriously. Period.
MoriyaMug 6 months ago 29
@MoriyaMug Unfortunately, and by your own standard, you can no longer be taken seriously. Established patterns and science show us there is not a person on earth who does not hold some belief contrary to or not supported by established facts. Unless you are the only infallible human to have ever existed, you and everyone else has a severe deficiency in critical thinking skills. By your standard of course.
tmoallen 3 months ago
@tmoallen To my knowledge, I have no beliefs not based established facts, or extrapolated thereupon. The crucial difference between myself and the religious, however, is that if I can be shown that the facts do not support (or more to the point, blatantly contradict) my outlook, I will change my stance.
Now, since you say you're backed by "established patterns and science," please do cite credible sources. Or is this where you start equivocating?
MoriyaMug 3 months ago
@MoriyaMug Oh my Jebus, you just appealed to your own knowledge as the highest authority. That's false belief # 1. # 2: Argument from authority replaces logic. # 3: People will waste time with sources even though I provide all the fodder. # 4: People will not laugh at me when I claim all my beliefs are established fact. We've just established a list of laughable, false beliefs you hold. And look, no sources needed but yourself! Pick up a book on epistemology, those writers are paid to cite.
tmoallen 3 months ago
@tmoallen Would you have preferred I wrote, "to my present awareness?" That is what I meant, which I'm comfortably certain you were able to glean. No outside entity has better knowledge of me than myself, particularly not some random (and possibly made-up) statistic. You're arguing semantics, just as you were when you respond to a 3-month-old post... with an ad hominem attack, no less. And please, let's not bore each other with an argument about the definition of the term. Just go away.
MoriyaMug 3 months ago
@MoriyaMug Aww, you only like your standards when they don't apply to you I see. :(
tmoallen 3 months ago
@MoriyaMug I agree that God doesn't exist.
But there doesn't need to be (empirical) evidence to believe that something exists. Take numbers or abstract objects. Mathematicians think they exist without any (empirical) evidence. So there must be a better argument.
baseballplayer1251 2 months ago
@baseballplayer1251 Mathematicians don't deny that Mathematics is man made. :D
Popikawaii 1 month ago
@Popikawaii Ok, let's be more precise. Some mathematicians are realists and think numbers really exist as abstract objects and other mathematicians are constructivists and think numbers are man made.
baseballplayer1251 1 month ago
@baseballplayer1251 For any rational person to think something is real, there must be evidence for it. Everything we encounter. Most 'supernatural' occurances have been explained, from ghosts to 'miracles'. Numbers are a human constructs and abstract objects are not really anything but ideas, formed when our brain neurons fire up and produce thought. I think evidence is needed for any and every claim.
Alphacaliber 1 month ago
@Alphacaliber I disagree. There must be good reasons to believe that something exists. Evidence is a sufficient reason, but not a necessary one.
And not every claim needs evidence for us to know it is true, like "All bachelors are unmarried". It's true but you don't need evidence to know that.
baseballplayer1251 1 month ago
@baseballplayer1251 That's because "All bachelors are unmarried" is an affirmative subject-predicate judgment. One term implicitly contains the other within it's definition (bachelor is, by definition, a subset of unmarried).
Google analytic/synthetic dichotomy. You cannot conflate a statement like "all bachelors are unmarried" with something like "all bachelors are drivers",
Your argument is incredibly silly.
rabidsi 1 month ago
@rabidsi I know that and I was already one step further. I was showing that there is a difference. My argument is not silly, you simply didn't understand it. Go back to your cave.
baseballplayer1251 1 month ago
The point it became silly was when you rebuffed the previous poster for his position that empirical evidence is a necessity for claims of the existence of a "something" that should have an effect on the material world we exist in (which is clearly the thrust of his argument). He's clearly not talking about non-material, abstract concepts. Bringing them up just makes you look the pedant.
rabidsi 1 month ago
@rabidsi It was an answer to his claim that "I think evidence is needed for any and every claim.", which is false and I showed an example why. That's perfectly ok.
By the way, which evidence does he offer for the claim above? None. But he doesn't need to, since not every claim needs evidence.
baseballplayer1251 1 month ago
@baseballplayer1251 I would say, at the core, every claim does need evidence. A person may not require proof if its a relatively mundane claim, but let's say its related to a criminal court case. Then you'd definately need to prove you did something mundane, and you'd be able to do it (even if its awkward and time consuming) for most things.
What we think can't be proven. But it doesn't make it right either, even if you think it is.
andromidius 1 month ago
Every pantheon we now regard as myth was once held as true. Why do you suppose the Greco-Roman gods are no longer worshipped, or the Norse gods? Consider why you regard the idea of worshipping them as unrealistic, and you will know exactly how we feel about the Judeo-Christian notion of god.
MoriyaMug 6 months ago
@MoriyaMug
The reason why Judeo-Christian faith makes sense to many people around the world is because there are well-documented events in the past that support its preachings, while there are none for Norse gods or Roman gods.
P.S. If you really want to do some good in the world, why don't you Atheist Preachers go to Iran or Pakistan and try to spread the good faith of Atheism there, instead of sticking with the soft target that is the western world.
81broncoman 6 months ago
@81broncoman
"there are well-documented events in the past that support its [Judeo-Christian faith] preachings"
Like what? What *preachings* are supported by evidence?
MsCoralline 6 months ago
He is so right.
What would u feel about living any longer, after 10000 years ?
When u have learned everything there is to learn, u have done everything there are to do. When u have spent thousands of years with the ones u once loved. After all that, how would u fill up your days ?
Some try to answer this so boldly with "You have no perception of time in heaven."
REALLY ? If u live, then I guess u have an understanding of time.
BelieveNoGod 8 months ago
I do nto agree with him, living forever would be awsome..
unfad1ng 8 months ago
@unfad1ng well then, that's another opinion.
i, however, wouldn't like it. that sort of "life" has no value to it. besides, i would probably get bored of it within a few centuries or so.
OyonTheAdept 8 months ago
@OyonTheAdept
I think living, with all its feelings and thoughts and experiences is worth it no matter how boring it gets or how much suffering i have to outstand, existance is for me something wonderful in itself
unfad1ng 8 months ago
I would ask if I can keep their iPhone once they are gone...
foroparapente 9 months ago
ugh listen to that fucking horrible laugh
kickmeout1 9 months ago
I held her and just kept telling her, "I'm here and I love you"
sevven1 9 months ago 2
I actually work as a chaplain (albeit a "humanist chaplain") And I couldn't have said it better than Christopher did. Having worked with ill, addicted or dying patients for 20 some years- I have actually found that the question asked isn't a valid one really. When one joins a dying person bed-side one does just that- join them and merely be a witness to the process. Most everything, otherwise, one CAN say is either coy, condescending or a cliche. The best thing to say is I love you and goodbye.
Kclaybond 9 months ago 21
@Kclaybond Wow, very well said.
BlackLabelSlushie 9 months ago
I should tell them that, 'I don't know what happens, if anything, but neither does ANYONE else'. Certainly I should not tell them that it's over to God now, whether you end up in 'paradise' or burn in agony in hell for eternity...just to remind you before you die. So, in many ways, I think what is not said is more compassionate than what is.
7x34hj 10 months ago
I must say that since giving up faith in some second life I have put far more stock and appreciation into this one.
IlovemyGlock21 10 months ago 2
I would rather go to hell for eternity then stop exsisting.
the sad part is that I am an atheist.
darkilustrisimus 10 months ago
@darkilustrisimus I'm an atheist too but if hell is what every religion says it is i'd rather stop existing. I'd rather have a never-ending innocuous blackness than be tortured for eternity lol. I'd take the neutral over the negative.
metyzermanfan19 10 months ago
@metyzermanfan19 for me not existing is infinitely unexpectable
darkilustrisimus 10 months ago
oblivion isnt understtod by dead people, as he says, you dont know your dead.
stylesisdaman 10 months ago 3
I like quantum physics view on the subject. Localized to non-localized.
derman077 11 months ago
I would say, "I love you. You will be with me for as long as I live, in my mind. Let's go get a beer, while we can." :)
TKStoddart 11 months ago
I would say to a dying friend "You were the best part of my life where I could rely on someone..Alot of ppl can't say they had a true friend that will do almost anything to make sure that there buddy is well...But I CAN...thank you my friend" then buy pizza and bring it to the hospital and watch movies...and tell the nurse to go fuck herself..I tell her when visiting hours are over...!!!
freedomland11 11 months ago
wish i was ignorant enough to follow a religion written by a single prophet with enough balls to say god told him its ok to have sex with his followers wives
if ignorance is bliss that would thats really really bliss
gonadcancervictim 11 months ago
Living for all eternity is a form of immortality, which is selfish. It doesn't matter what happens to me when I die, because it's not about me, it's about something greater. It's about giving back as much as I can while I exist to help ensure that humans, all creatures big and small, or at minimum, life as a whole in some shape or form continues; so that when I'm gone, those whom come after me can take their turn to experience how wondrous it is to exist.
PeacefulAtheist1 1 year ago
Oblivion is better than heaven or hell
LowleyUK 1 year ago 65
@LowleyUK I've been there too - oblivion isn't it's al cracked up to be, actually I'd much prefer my bedroom - en suite of course. . .and a towel.
THEHARMONIKZ 11 months ago
@LowleyUK Oblivion is not.. it is nothing
doughd99 10 months ago
@doughd99 Yes which is why it's better than roasting in Hell and praising the dear leader for ETERNITY with a bunch of people I would loathe in Heaven, e.g. the Westboro baptist church and a tonne of dogmatic idiots from the middle ages.
LowleyUK 10 months ago
@LowleyUK Nothing is not better or worse. it is nothing.
doughd99 10 months ago
@doughd99 I'm not suggesting I'm going to be enjoying being in oblivion, nothingness, just that with forsight I can determine that it is the best option. I would rather not exist than be a subject forever in a torturous (both would be for me) realm. Am I missing something metaphysical here?
LowleyUK 10 months ago
@LowleyUK Yes, you are missing something metaphysical. The question, as I see it, is: how do you phrase the language of oblivion without presupposing something about "it." But, as you can see, this is impossible. Oblivion has no context with which to phrase! I cannot even call "it," "it," because "it" "is-not." Because oblivion is metaphysically impossible to understand, it cannot be spoken of intelligently. Thus, it cannot be used accurately in a comparison.
doughd99 10 months ago
@doughd99 I fully understand what you are saying but I think you are looking into it too deeply, though you are mostly right in what you are saying. But the key point is that Oblivion can be understood. It is the lack of consciousness - I would prefer that to concepts of Heaven and Hell.
LowleyUK 10 months ago
@LowleyUK furthermore, is it not strange to compare non existance to anything at all? Saying "I wish I were never born" implies that you would have been better if you were not born- but this is impossible, because there would be no you in this case..
doughd99 10 months ago
@doughd99 Sorry but I fail to understand you on this point, and it strikes me as a bit solipsistic. It is perfectly reasonable and logical to wish you were never born. Sufferring can be measured and equally avoided by never existing.
LowleyUK 10 months ago
@doughd99 Oblivion is what existed in your consciousness before you were conceived (nothing). So it is perfectly logical to want that "nothing" which we have already, to some extent, experienced (or not experienced) over burning in hellfire for eternity.
metyzermanfan19 10 months ago
@metyzermanfan19 You dont understand. Oblivion, doesnt exist. Thus it did not exist "in my consciousness," before I was concieved, or at any time, anywhere, at all, ever.
You cant compare nothing to anything. It would be like saying would you like ______________ or apples? It doesnt make any sense gramatically, or logically. Socrates explained this in the apology, Heidegger goes into this in Being and Time. Read a book. Non-existance doesnt exist. Its a definitional truth. Duhhhhhh
doughd99 10 months ago
@doughd99 You just proved my point. Telling me that nothing is nothing proves, well, nothing. I am saying it would be better to have _____________ than hell. You cannot tell me I don't understand something when you don't even understand MY concept, however, I understand yours. And as far as reading a book goes, please, save your intellectual superiority complex for someone else. Name-dropping Socrates and prominent German philosophers doesn't make your argument more valid, it makes it less so.
metyzermanfan19 10 months ago
@doughd99 Maybe next time I'll tell you to read the works of Machiavelli or Confucius to help me look smarter than I really am.. You're a fraud, douchebag.
metyzermanfan19 10 months ago