I am not anti-Mormon. I was baptised into the LDS church in '08. Recently I have found out and have gotten to know too many alarming things about the belief system in the church. The people of the Church are not evil by any means, they are kind gentle spirits. I just can not follow a man built upon a church which has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese. If you can not translate-something correctly as a prophet how could I ever trust any other works. On top of this Joseph Smith was a Mason.
The Abraham Papyrus is an absurd fraud and easily disproved. An embarrassment to the Hierarchy . This joke is what Joe conjured up out of his perception of Real Egyptian. He was wrong 100% of the time! Statistically significant but in the wrong direction. So, how much error is there in the Book of Mormon, translated from non existent "reformed" Egyptian for which not a scintilla of evidence exists. And translated with the plates outside and his head in his hat with his pet rock!?
@AviatorBJP What you're really saying, there, is not that "the church plays the hurt-feelings card" but that the TOP FIFTEEN YO-YOs play the hurt-feelings card: because, when the top leader dogs "feel" a certain way, the rest of the church members just plain get on board with it! ("They ARE good followers, after all, in following, following, following the yellow-brick road of the Morm Corporate Hierarchy)
And, up pops Oaks & reinforces that notion by saying, "DON'T criticize THE BRETHREN..."
As a follow-up to this vid, people like that young EltonJThe would do well to view the video "Mormonism Disproved in less than 3 minutes". It summarizes, nicely, the point that THIS video is making.
Now, with this NEW INFORMATION (which is "new" to you mormons), go into your West Valley City, Utah ...er, "woods"...and pray, now! Do as James 1:5 asks, you mormon hypocrites! You won't do that, though! You got your entire social system to lose, if you do....you spineless cowards!
@EltonJThe...Here you are, in a "classroom", young man. LEARN!
Don't close your eyes, when new information is presented to you. Your little missionaries expect others to consider the "new information" that is presented to THEM: why don't you go & do likewise? (lest you prove yourself to be the hypocrite that you really are!)
Let's see. How does it go, for a typical mormn? You say in your heart "One standard for U, and a different one, for me"...
@cuidadodelcocodrilo Smith--the great and wondrous story teller that he was (according to his mother)-- was good at creating fables and FUDGING things!
He sure had a bunch of gullible idiots for followers! Besides, in my day, we would call such churches "cults of personality" (because charlatans, like Smith, ALWAYS had a "following" a CULT following!)
@cuidadodelcocodrilo Well, you are a crocodile, for sure! What do you mean that Smith "interpreted" the missing part to be a man's head? He FUDGED the missing parts, you dumb mor(m)on croc-of-crap
It could also be pointed out that the so-called gods at the bottom which have been proven by Egyptologists to be canopic jars are not the names of any known gods. Almost as if Joseph Smith just made up the names of the gods. Which he did.
To all the patrons on this thread listen very carefully. FOR SOMETHING THAT IS CLAIMED TO BE TRUE - IT IS SURE HARD TO PROVE IT TO BE JUST THAT. THANK GOODNESS THAT THE LEADERS OF THE CHURCH HAVE SO MANY WILLING TO EMBARRASS THEMSELVES TO PROVE THE CHURCH'S CLAIMS.
A missing jackal head does not illustrate that Smith made an inaccurate interpretation, as PRIESTS would wear a Jackal head when officiating and representing the Egyptian God Anubis. The basic interpretation of a man is actually correct.
@cuidadodelcocodrilo This facsimile is a burial representation and should be a jackal headed Anubis on the left, and more significantly because it is visible, with the four sons of Horus canopic jars underneath the dead Osiris: The baboon headed HAPY, the human headed IMSETY, the jackal headed DUAMUTEF, and finally the falcon headed QEBEHSENUEF. This 4 jars interpretation is the ONLY explanation from mainstream Egyptology!
@jlm2525 My assertion is that priests would wear a jackal head (head-dress) when officiating and representing the God Anubis... so if Smith missed the jackal head and interpreted the image to represent a priest (i.e., a man, albeit REPRESENTING the God Anubis) instead of "the God Anubis" itself, that does not make his interpretation invalid. To the contrary, Smith's interpretation of "priest" is actually accurate... maybe even more than simply "the God Anubis"
@cuidadodelcocodrilo Yes, there were priests wearing an Anubis headdress officiating in burials, I give you that. However, in this typical and common burial representation, it is Anubis that we see here, and not a priest. Furthermore, we should see the goddess Isis as a kite flying over Osiris’s middle body to get pregnant with Horus. Nonetheless, Smith is additionally VERY WRONG concerning the FOUR SONS OF HORUS. Modern Egyptology does confirm what I say!
Bill McKeever and Sandra Tanner still cite the Jupiter Talisman story, long after it was exposed as a fraud. The only authority on that Item was Daniel C. Peterson, and he has since recanted his analysis of that supposed artifact. The Jupiter Talisman is a hoax, just like the Salamander Letter, yet Tanner and McKeever still use it to promote their lies. That is an easy litmus test to use on any anti-Mormon jackass who presumes to be an authority on the Church.
Except when it was BYU Church history Proffessor Quinn who has the Jupiter Tailsman well documented and very detailed in his book, 'Mormonism and the magic world view'
It is amazing how I used to try to justify and explain away all of these problems. When your dogma is more important to you than the truth is, it is amazing how ones mind can compartmentalize the facts that support your belief from those that disprove it.
Rather than filter the facts based on our beliefs, we should let our beliefs be molded by the facts.
Hey, Genius. There are hieroglyphs embedded in the pictures themselves. The most obvious (and simple) example is the Eye of Horus. There are seven hieroglyphs which make up the Eye of Horus. These hieroglyphs spell 'to make or do' or 'one who does.' This technique has been used in Arabic, Chinese Han Zi, and Japanese Kanji for thousands of years. I'm sure you already knew that, didn't you, Professor Knowitall?
@mormonmilitia Please, quit advertising your ignorance and listen to those who have make Egyptian hieroglyphics their lifetime work. The degrees of self-delusion, odd coincidences, pointing out arcane and inane "observations".
Face it. JS made a fraudulent "translation" of a burial document & it only looks worse when you try to act as if everything is kosher. I can't imagine how a faithful Saint continues believing knowing that one of the holy books is a joke/
@smb12321 ummm.......what do you know of Oriental languages? Also, Egyptology is hardly a mature discipline. There is much more that we still don't know about everything.
@mormonmilitia The hallmark of Oriental languages is tonality. Mongolian & Chinese are geographically "Oriental" but Mongolian is agglutinative - not tonal. Egyptian is not Oriental.
I guess you think by spouting things like "Egyptology is not mature" folks will agreed. One can obtain a degree in Egyptology at Harvard, Brown, Brandeis, John Hopkins, Cornell & Princeton. Of course, to Saints, its not mature because it doesn't agree with their wacky beliefs or JS's "translation".
May I refer you to Voices from the Dust by Glenn A. Scott. Available at:
School of Saints
520 W. Maple
Indep.,MO 64050
Fax 816-833-0491 24-h
Brother Scott has performed considerable archeological studies in South America. In his book you will find ample proof. The Book of Mormon is also available here. In the last few pages of the BOM is a promise for you. If you read the book with an honest desire to know it is true, asking God, you will know beyond a doubt. Please pray.
Facsimile 1 has been proven to be 100% correct. This guy needs to do more research. There are BIG differences in the one in this picture (even the original) and other common lion-couch images. "You won't find jackals with a knife." There's a book in the British Museum that is about Egypt with a picture of a jackal with a knife. See the bird? The wings are usually not down. This is the only thing like it to have a crocodile on it.
@majinish Mainstream egyptologists completely disagree with you. First of all, the Gods of Elkenah are in reality the 4 sons of Horus, namely -- Duamutef, Qebesenuef, Imsety, and Hapy represented as canopic jars. Egyptologists have confirmed over and over that the Goddess Isis in the form of a bird is shown overflying on top of Osiris to get magically pregnant with her husband. I have 3 books that confirm the Isis-Osiris account.
@jlm2525 And yet this facsimile is completely different from any other. Oh, a knife being in it is not out of place. Book of the Dead in the British Museum. Look it up. :) And I also know that's not Isis as a bird. I printed out a copy of the facsimile from the scroll. Trust me, that's not even close to being part of a wing over the body. This guy has his version with the guy having no top clothing. There are places this guy seems to have missed. Joseph Smith actually had it right.
@majinish I don't seem to be finding that knife with Anubis or was it Wepwawet, another canine deity? Anubis was also depicted without a top shirt like the one from the tomb of Shoshenq displayed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. I assume that you're saying that those are finger tips rather than feather tips. It's arguable and I'm gonna go with mainstream Egyptology on this one!
@jlm2525 It was either Anubis or a jackal but I'd say either since Anubis has the head of a jackal. The one laying down in this image does have clothing on the top half. A few lines make all the difference and this guy on the video forgot something that's on the neck that would indicate clothing. Since I have a printed clear copy of the facsimile I can tell it's not like how this guy thinks it is.
@majinish Not even the Mormon Church has an entire restored original copy! What do you mean you have a full printed clear copy of the facsimile? Well, in the 1967 original, the whole top of the laying down Osiris is missing all the way to under the chin except for the shoulder line under the neck. Furthermore, the crocodile (no alligators in Egypt) IS drawn on the bottom on the Egyptologist version.
@majinish It looks like both J.S. and the Egyptologist drew the bird’s wings facing down. BTW, the Dendera, Egypt scene has TWO BIRDS. You are saying nothing about the FOUR SONS OF HORUS!
@majinish This facsimile doesn't seem that different from ordinary funerary hieroglyphs. Anubis usually stands on the side as in the video assisting Isis in the resurrection of Osiris. Isis is at times depicted as a bird on top of a laying down Osiris like in the Roman period western roof chapel in the temple of Hathor in Dendera, Egypt. Almost forgot, what about the 4 SONS OF HORUS: 1)Human headed IMSETY 2)Baboon headed HAPY 3)Jackal headed DUAMUTEF and 2)Falcon headed QEBESENUEF?
Be the first in your Stake to own "Reformed Egyptians For Dummies!!" You'll be the envy of your Ward!!
Your "Reformed Egyptian For Dummies" kit includes a new off-gassing hat, your very own set of magic rocks, and a shiny set of electroplated gold tablets!!
Good point....Joseph Smith should have just joined one of those other true churches.
And besides...we don't even exist. There would have to be a Creator....or else...we need to believe that.the law of entropy is false...since .we are organizing into creations spontaneously.
Right?
My coffee table isn't disintegrating gradually over time....it is turning into a whale.
The problem with the "god dun it" argument is that it creates more questions than it answers. The appropriate position for the unknown is "I don’t know." The lack of knowledge is not a license for people to make crazy shit up. As for our origins, there are several competing hypotheses, some just happen to be backed up by reliable evidence and are therefore more credible than others that say “just believe me or your are going to burn in hell.”
When are all you Abrahamics going to start studying and come to the realization that all this religious non-sense is a lie. You have been grandly deceived, herded into a trap that you are too afraid to poke your head out of. You are an insult to humanity, stay away from my children.
What a bunch of hypocrites you all are! Let me ask you a question! How in the hell do you know these things are false? Have you read the book of Abraham, Bible, Book of Mormon, L. Ron Hubbard etc etc? In till you do and you have the right to speak the lets face it.. YOU DONT KNOW SHIT!!! As for me.., I have read ABR, BOM and KNOW them to be true! As for Hubbard.., I have skimmed though his beliefs along with other Theology. If you want to talk the talk, walk the walk first!!!!!
@djdhcp22 If you want to start talking about the book of mormon, there is a whollist of problems that it has too. One itsy bitsy tiny tiny example would be, uh, let me think... IRON ORE.
And of course we know everything about Egypt and its writings or how the pyramids were raised and so forth....Egypt's culture is clear to us unmistakably. No room for a different interpretation of a symbolic drawing.
I am repeatedly surprised by the one-sided nature of many the critics of Mormonism. Can we ever, even for a second, talk about some of the things that we know Smith got right? The sum total of which moves beyond happenstance and should give us pause to really pay attention to both sides. And yes, I'm talking to LDS crowd who can sometimes be just as divisive and mean spirited as the anti-mormon coterie.
are you a brain dead idiot? it is so obvious that he made this entire thing up. so what if he got a few things right.... so did nostradamus... remember even a broken clock is right twice a day
I echo thejizzman99's response: a broken clock is still tells you the right time twice a day. As for the mean spiritedness of "anti-mormons:" ANY and I mean ANY critisism of the LDS church, big or small, appearantly makes someone an "evil anti-mormon." The church just plays the hurt feelings card way too often whenever someone tries honest skeptical inquiry.
You bring up a good point about LDS people being overdefensive about "honest skeptical inquiries." The overreaction often leads to a shouting contest where no dialogue takes place. I will be the first to admit that my fellow Mormons could and should do a better job in maintaining a Christlike attitude.
There are answers to these skeptical inquiries, and I would have love debate the guy who does this video - had I had the time to dedicate towards it.
It goes beyond that. Church leaders teach that being intellectual is very bad and one shouldn't do it. Essentially they ask their members to stop thinking. Of course this makes sense because if the members of the LDS Church would leave the church once they realized the truth.
@SanRafaelSwell Any person or orginization who asks you to take it on faith has already lost the argument. I just find it funny that even though they want the members to be "Sheep", they pride themselves on how many members have college degrees. Irony....
"It goes beyond that. Church leaders teach that being intellectual is very bad and one shouldn't do it. Essentially they ask their members to stop thinking."
This is categorically false. Quite the contrary; the exact opposite is true.
@ccheng21 Did you know that L. Ron Hubbard was a "Fictional" author. He was a writer of fictional books...in other words, he was really good at making things up.
I would like to hear a Mormon defend this. They are so blind to the facts and they willfully close their minds because they already "know the book is true".
to answer your question sneedleout: Mormons don't defend it. They just don't ever ever ever talk about it. I know. I just barely got out of the dang religion. The church doesnt teach any sunday school lessons about it, they just pretend it doesn't exist. I never heard anything about it for the 20 years I was a mormon, other than myself stumbling upon it. Once I learned just a smidgeon of egyptology, I knew the thing was crap.
Do you really believe that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ? How could Smith have seen God in 1820 when he said in Doctrine and Covenant 84:21-22 that without the Priesthood, no man can see God?
For one, we can start with the many and varied accounts of the "resurrection", none of which tell the same story. Among other things, all of the main characters in the story are supposed to be Jewish, yet they deliberately break Jewish burial laws. Are we simply supposed to be so "wowed" by the story that we don't notice these things?
"American Antiquities and Discoveries in The West", Josiah Priest, c.1826. ( I have 3 copies of 1831-33) Priest pub' letters between CHAMPOLLION and CS Rafinesque. Rafinesque describes many linguistic similarities among Indian languages and Europian/Mediterranian languages. From p. 303-335 numerous finds are discussed. CHAMPOLLION was well known in 1831 and Joe is without excuse. Many documentaries dealing with Joe and the BofA state Champollion was unknown in the USA, Not True. Joe needs help!
Joseph Smith was a confirmed LIAR who told so many lies that they started to conflict with one another; the really amazing thing is that some people can be so deluded as to believe anything that this shyster ever claimed.
flawed premise, flawed conclusion. pls pack an extra pair of underdrawers for when u shit your pants in realization that you were hood winked by your leader, Satan. Party now while u can......
If I don't believe in your imaginary "god", what makes you think I believe in your imaginary "satan" either, halfwit? Religion is a pacifier for dimwits who can't accept the fact that they are going to die, and the Mormon religion in particular is a good example of exactly how much shit people will willingly swallow in order to do ANYTHING to give themselves that pacifier.
Because atheism is the default position in the absence of any evidence for the existence of your imaginary "god"; there's no more evidence for YOUR "god" than there is for the existence of "Ra", or "Shiva" or "Odin", or "Zeus", or any of the OTHER imaginary gods that con-men have come up with in order to gain power and wealth. You're going to have to come up with some actual EVIDENCE if you want people with some degree of intelligence to believe in your fairy-tales.
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If your imaginary "god" exists, and is as powerful as you brainwashed cultists like to claim, there's absolutely nothing stopping said "god" from letting me know about it right now. as it is, there is NOTHING that makes any one of your superstitions stand out above any of the rest, and religion is nothing more than an atavistic hold-over from the days when people lived in caves and tried to explain things that didn't make sense to them.
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EVERY cult is convinced that it, and it alone, has "the truth", and your superstition is nothing special in that regard; what your cult (or any of the others) DOESN'T have is any sort of proof for their claims, so where does that leave rational humans like myself? Should I believe in your imaginary friend just because you really, really believe in it (the exact same way that every OTHER superstition does), or should I demand to see evidence? That's what I do for everything else.
My "motive" is to believe as many true things and as few false things in the relatively short time I spend alive, and it disgusts me when I see snake-oil salesmen spewing their unsubstantiated bullshit as "the Truth". Without evidence or proof, your superstition is in exactly the same spot as EVERY OTHER superstition or cult, and no amount of new-age "I feel your pain" crapola can change that, fool.
Don't jump to conclusions so fast; I HAVE read the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and my girlfriend is a Buddhist, and after evaluating the arguments presented, NONE of them make any sort of a convincing case. They are all based on the same thing: selling something that doesn't exist, no different than any other cult. I've come to grips with my mortality, and have accepted it; it's a shame that people like you can't, and have to latch onto myths to try to avoid the certainty that you'll die.
Where do you get the idea that I'm "yelling" at anyone? I certainly don't buy any of the myths and superstitions that "true believers" of any cult seem to accept without question, but that's exactly what I do on ANY issue, not just this one. What's more, you probably do to, and it's only in this one case that you're willing to gullibly accept any line of crap without logical thought, simply because it relates to your superstition.
I've already FOUND what I'm looking for, but I can't help being disgusted when I see you shysters selling a lie, no differently than the Scientologists, or the Raelians, or the Mormons, or any other crackpot superstition. If your fantasy helps you get up in the morning, that's fine, but it's still nothing more than a fantasy, no better than believing that Zeus is sitting on a cloud waiting to throw thunderbolts.
How can you claim to know that I'm "looking for" ANYTHING, let alone claim that I haven't found it? Is this one of the magical powers that your imaginary magic man in the sky is supposed to give you, or is it just something you pulled out of your ass? Like I said before, I personally don't care what insupportable bug dung YOU were brainwashed into, but when I see someone being sucked in by a scam (be it financial, religious, political, or anything else) why shouldn't I speak out?
Like I said below, I personally don't CARE what insupportable bug dung you were brainwashed into, but I think people have a right to know that it's nothing more than a fantasy, no different from any other superstition or cult. If you don't like "pulled it out of your ass", would you maybe prefer "just made up"? I believe the majority of people are intelligent enough to see cults like yours for the scams they are, but they need to be exposed to both sides in order to actually THINK about it.
What, now you don't WANT to talk about the contradictions in your little magic book? Like I said before, in order to make a decision on this issue, I did what any rational person would do, and I evaluated the arguments on both sides (what all of us hopefully do on ANY issue). Your superstition contradicts itself so many times, and is such a display of immorality by your "god" and other characters, that a four-year-old can see the holes in its story.
You're going to take your little magic book and run away so soon? Your cult "explains away" contradictions in the exact same way that every OTHER cult does, by ignoring them. Jewish burial law says, among other things, that males aren't allowed to have anything to do with a dead female body or vice versa, so why is it that your cult claims that "Mary" went to "anoint the body"? This is a hole the size of a Saturn V rocket in the fairy-tale, but you all skip right over it.
No, that means that your little magic book isn't telling you the truth; your fairy tale claims that "Mary" (plus however many OTHER women; the different stories give different accounts) went to "anoint the body", AND that they were Jewish, but these things directly contradict each other. As Jews, women are FORBIDDEN from having anything to do with a dead male body, so your book is lying to you on one hand or the other. We still haven't even touched on the OTHER contradictions of your myth.
Stacey...Why are you so mad at everything? Lighten up dude. You need counseling. If people want to believe in God, what is that to you? Your motive is you dont want them to be "decieved?" How noble of you. I wouldnt worry about THEM so much, I'd worry about either spending eternity in Hell or going to heaven when you die. WHAT IF THEY ARE RIGHT? HMMM...If you are right and there is no God, were all "worm food." If Christians are right, think of the consequences. I'd repent if I were you.
This is a rewording of Pascal's wager, which was debunked so long ago it isn't even funny; you assume that there are only two options - that your particular superstition is right, and everyone else is wrong. There are more options than that. If your imaginary "god" had the powers ascribed to it, it could make its existence known to everyone instantly, and it would KNOW if you were believing "just in case", but that hasn't happened, so it's just as imaginary as all the rest.
wow - i couldn't get through 30 seconds of this video before losing track of how many misrepresentations and wrong assertions there were. ultimately - 98% of what is said or asserted here is distorted or flat out wrong.
Well for example, the man says that Joseph drew the head and the knife, etc., but nobody knows when those pieces became detached, or who actually drew them in. He is accusing Joseph, but has no proof that Joseph actually drew them in! There is a painting of Lucy Smith (Joseph's mom) with fac 1 mounted on her wall - complete. This painting was after Joseph died, and before his mom died, indicating that the entire fac 1 deteriorated later. Do a little homework before making dumb accusations.
The bullshit artist Smith made the claim that this scene described one of the fairy-tales in the bible, and FURTHER claimed that he could read it (doubtless, he claimed that it was written in "reformed Egyptian", the imaginary language he claimed that his imaginary "gold book" was written in). The above video PROVES that Joseph Smith was simply a con-man who was able to sucker a bunch of gullible sheep, like L. Ron Hubbard.
Wow. I guess my first question is how come you are so pissed off? The above video only proves that the presenter has done absolutely zero research, and is simply regurgitating the same garbage that has been previously answered over the last 40 years. As far "gullible sheep," let me ask what research you have done? It sounds like your entire position is simply following whatever the guy in the video says (and he is simply repeating others). I guess that would make you kind of like a sheep?
Its kind of ironic that you refer to us as gullible sheep - when it was actually Carl Mosser and Paul Owens (Evangelicals) that said the Evangelical community needs to wake up and get their heads in the game, since Mormons have answered most of the accusations against them, and answered a lot of them well over 60+ years ago. They accuse critics of Mormonism of being sloppy, and regurgitating stuff that has long since been disproven. Seems kind of like your accusations (baseless) and the video.
How about Smith's equally-ludicrous claim that he was "given the book of mormon by an angel, and that book was made of gold"? The story he tells of running 3 miles carrying that book (which would have weighed a minimum of 100 pounds, given the dimensions claimed) WHILE fighting off 3 men who were trying to steal it is an obvious LIE, and can be tested by anyone with a 100-pound weight and a running track. So, do you prefer to believe a lie or the truth?
I'm not parrticularly pissed off, it just astounds me that people who claim to be "intelligent" can be taken in so easily by scam artists the likes of Joseph Smith, L.Ron Hubbard, and OTHER religious hucksters. The con-man Smith claimed to be able to "read" hieroglyphics in exactly the same way he claimed to be able to "read reformed Egyptian" (which doesn't even EXIST), yet mindless fools gobbled his crap up without a second thought.
Ok - Stacey - since you are apparently more intelligent than all Mormons, perhaps you can clarify. Are you smarter than Kim Clark, former Dean of the Harvard Business School? Or maybe Steven Covey who presents the ideals in his book to top business execs regularly. What about John Huntsman, US Ambassador to China? Or thousands of others who are very intelligent, but not celebrity status? What about me? I'm just a corporate auditor who'd rather spend all day at the library
It was Charles Dickens who made the same assumptions as you, and then after seeing a group of Mormons headed to America, he called them "the picking flower of England." Our believing in Joseph Smith as a Prophet, and the Book of Mormon or Abraham, is no more ludicrous than Moses parting the Red Sea, or Elijah being taken up in a whirlwhind. When you try to apply the science of the dimensions of the "gold plates" please do the same for me with Elijah and Moses since you are more intelligent.
And no, Demotic and Hieratic AREN'T "reformed Egyptian"; they have the same relationship to hieroglyphs as Fraktur has to present-day German, or the different forms of Cyrillic have to spoken Russian. However, "reformed Egyptian" is EXACTLY the sort of bullshit that a fraud like Joseph Smith would glibly lie about in order to sucker in the rubes, since he knew no-one would ever call him a liar to his face on it.
Did I say I believed THEIR lines of bullshit any more than I believe Joseph Smith's? The only real difference between any of these hucksters is that Smith was lucky enough to find a semi-literate group of people who were willing to believe his lies relatively recently in history; selling "eternal life" is the perfect scam, since you're never going to have to deal with a customer coming back and saying "Hey! Where's the eternal life I was promised?"
I'm certainly intelligent enough to not be taken in by a slick-talking bullshit peddler like Joseph Smith, if that's what you mean. Unfortunately, religion is a mental disease that is primarily passed on from parents to children, while those children are still too young to recognize lies, and implicitly TRUST their parents. Once indoctrinated, they (and YOU, apparently), won't ever bother to take a close second look at what they believe and why, so the cult continues.
Oh yes, that all makes sense...except for the fact that many people convert to religion never having grown up with any religion. They aren't too intelligent either, in fact, one guy I baptized was only a nuclear engineer. The fact that religion is so meaningless to you is apparent considering your indifference. Oh wait, you aren't indifferent, you are hostile towards religion.
You are right it is much wiser, to assume that everything taught by parents is completely untrue.
As far as Demotic and Hieratic - yes they are reformed Egyptian! That is exactly what they are!!! The hieroglyphs were simplified (i.e., reformed), for convenience. You are a real bright one, no doubt about that.
Not ASSUME, dumbass, QUESTION. QUESTIONING things is the only real way humans have of ever discovering ANYTHING, yet religions do their best to stifle that by saying "You can trust us, because we KNOW what we're talking about; after all, we got it straight from "god", so we couldn't lie about it". If Smith's "golden book" was anything BUT a convenient lie, we would have some sort of record of either the book itself OR "reformed Egyptian", but Egyptologists LAUGH at the mention of it, fool.
And you're a bigger fool than I thought if you imagine that hieroglyphs are a "simpler" form of demotic or hieratic; exactly the OPPOSITE is true, and hieroglyphics were the script used only for "official" and "ceremonial" writing, such as on buildings, tombs, important papyri, etc.
What can I tell you? Some people are so transfixed by the thought of their own mortality that they are willing to believe ANY line of bullshit in an attempt to convince themselves that they're never going to die, whether that something is "Trust me; if you blow yourself to taco filling, you'll get 72 virginsafter you die", or "Trust me; if you believe in our cult, you'll get to go to heaven as a god yourself". Simple-minded promises for simple-minded people.
whew - ok. Demotic and hieratic are a simplier (reformed) method of hieroglyphs because of the convenience in writing. It is much more efficient in writing this style than hieroglyphs. As far as the rest of your blundering comments - you aren't questioning anything - you are condemning everything. You assume that your conclusion is the only valid one. You assume that we simply "trust" our Mormon leaders, when the reality is that all of Mormonism is based on personal revelation.
You think because you haven't found an adequate answer, nobody has. You assume a lot of things without really knowing anything. You think that the evidence you require for the Book of Mormon is the only acceptable evidence; however, millions of converts disagree with you. As far as Egyptologists- John Gee received his Ph.D. from Yale in Egyptology and believes. Your generalizing and logical fallacies are getting annoying. Its clear you have blinded yourself to your own preconceived notions.
Not at all; I'm willing to look at any evidence someone may have to offer, but your superstition falls even further short in that commodity than most others do. The NUMBERS of people who may believe your nonsense is no indication of its truth, any more than the numbers of people who believe islam, Christianity, or Judaism are indicators of THEIR truth. There is no shortage of gullible people, and there's a sucker born every minute.
Only that demotic and hieratic are EARLIER forms of writing than hieroglyphs are, so they're NOT "reformed Egyptian" any more than they're "reformed Polish". Now, since you've simply swallowed the BS fairy-tale that Joseph Smith spun out for the rubes, you're not "questioning" ANYTHING; among other things, you don't even bother to look at the more likely alternative explanations for all of the lies that Smith told, because the last thing you want to do is think critically about his tales.
And this is the problem with most critics of Joseph Smith - ad hominem attacks & no substantiation for a real criticism. You aren't willing to look at any evidence besides that fed to you by anti-Mormons who know the lies they are disseminating. I don't wish to continue any conversation with you because your facts are backwards, your accusations childish, and I feel like I'm trying to rationalize with an emotional teenager. If you were interested in evidence you'd consider adequate sources.
Since undoubtedly you'll accuse me of hypocrisy-I should note that I have read, all the articles from Sunstone, Dialogue, BYU Studies, Ensign, as well as Larson's book on the subject of Abraham. I found the evidence for condemning the Book of Abraham significantly lacking. It almost baffles me as to why critics ignore the mountain of apocryphal literature that substantiates the BoA text and then I remember their motives-they "lie in wait to deceive." Surely, you'll get the last word-have at it.
In other words, Mormons "substantiated" Joseph Smith's lies for him, just as Muslims "substantiated" Mohammed's lies for him, and Christians "substantiated" all of the fairy-tales in their little magic book for each other; what an absolute SHOCK. Your superstition is an absolute farce, begun by a shyster, yet you have willingly blinded yourself to simple logic in an effort to try to make the facts fit your superstition.
It's not an "ad hominem" when this BS artist failed to provide even a single solitary scrap of evidence in support of all of his lies; since HE was the one making these claims, it was up to HIM to provide that evidence, but he instead chose the route that scam artists and cult leaders have since time immemorial; "believe or else". The things that we ARE able to test (his "translations", his "running with a gold book" story, etc.) show him up for an absolute LIAR, and nothing more.
I'm not sure which part I was the most correct about, but probably the part about trying to rationalize with an emotional teenager. If you wanted evidence, there is plenty of it.
The trouble is, all the evidence shows Joseph Smith up for the con-man he was; is there any evidence that he "saw an angel"? No, just his claims. That he received a "golden book"/ No, only his claims and the claims of a handful that stood to gain as much from his lies. That he was anything more than a skilled liar and con-man who tried to ride his fairy-tales into the leadership of a group of gullible simpletons? None whatsoever.
I'm ready, anytime you're willing to provide some actual EVIDENCE for the stories this shyster told. Should I simply take Joseph Smith's (questionable, at best) WORD that he "talked to an angel who gave him a gold book"? If so, then why wouldn't I just as gullibly accept Muhammed's word that he rode around the Middle East on a winged horse, and that an angel told him that "there is no god but allah and you are his prophet"? There's no difference, except the language the lies are told in.
A grown up conversation would imply that the subject under consideration isn't already condemned under a bunch of preconceived notions. You aren't interested in evidence, otherwise you wouldn't keep bringing up the same old issues that have been answered and available for public use for a good 150 years. You aren't bringing anything new to the table, you are simply regurgitating worn out anti-Mormon criticisms and having uncontrollable emotional outbursts.
All you'd need to do, then is to lay out those "explanations", and show why they're any "more believable" than the simplest answer that is available to all reasonably-intelligent observers at this point: ie. Joseph Smith was a dyed-in-the-wool bullshit artist, who spun these fairy-tales out for the sake of personal power. So far, you have done EXACTLY what every OTHER brainwashed cult member through history has done, claim that "Oh, you just don't want to see the truth". That's BS, as you know.
Well, our initial conversation started with my providing evidence regarding one issue that was false in this video. So in other words, I started to do exactly what you wanted, but you immediately diverted into a million other subjects and childish name calling. That is why I know you aren't interested in reasonable explanations, and no matter how rational the explanation could be, you are so dead set in your position, all that should be expected from you is more of the same ad hominem attacks.
You did no such thing; you claimed that "before 30 seconds were up, you knew it wasn't going to be worth watching because it would only rehash an old claim"; well, he didn't even MAKE any claims before the 30 second mark, but he DID go on to show that Smith's supposed "translation" of this scene wasn't worth a hill of beans. So far, your "prophet" is batting 0 for 1000. The same goes for any evidence of any of the supposed "lost Israeli tribes" he claimed that existed in the Americas.
Your quotation doesn't match what I said. Again, further evidence that you like to twist things to fit your skewed vision. I'm done trying to have a grown up conversation because it isn't going to happen. Good luck in life Stacey.
You SPECIFICALLY said " i couldn't get through 30 seconds of this video before losing track of how many misrepresentations and wrong assertions there were", which is what I paraphrased; if you're not even willing to admit to what you wrote yesterday, why should anyone believe a single word you have to say on anything ELSE, let alone the truth of the cult that this bullshit artist Smith founded? Life is hard, and it doesn't get any easier when you gullibly accept crap without asking questions.
You got the quote right this time. Last time you inserted the idea that I didn't bother watching the whole video, which was wrong. Actually, thank the Lord, my life is relatively easy. It seems like you must have had a really really hard life though to be as pissed off as you are. I've got sufficient answers and evidence, but of course, me, nor any other Mormon is as intelligent as you are, which you have undoubtedly proved in all of your brilliant comments above. Good bye Stacey.
I didn't "insert" ANYTHING, since your quote specifically says "I couldn't get through 30 seconds....". Since the fellow shown didn't even MAKE any claims before the 30-second mark, that tells me that the last thing you're interested in is answering all of the lies that this bullshit artist Smith told in the founding of this cult.
I've brought up issue after issue, yet you follow the standard cult practice of ignoring actual evidence and choosing to believe only what your superstition has spoon-fed to you; standard sloppy cult brainwashing. The "rest of your sentence" clarifies NOTHING, in fact it shows that you didn't even bother to think about the actual issue raised in this video. If Joseph Smith was anything more than the BS artist that the evidence shows him to be, he wouldn't have claimed to translate hieroglyphics.
This is all just a bunch of lyes. If u wnt to no th tru about gawd's one true church, ask the missionarys.Y do u prosecute us? This jus pruvs its relly trueDo u lik litle boys?
I no that gawd bless me 4 follow his comandmants.
Y don't you reppent of ur sinz? gawd lovz u 2.
Its the fasttest growin religun in the whirled. Y dont u want 2 b mormon? I jus dont no wat i wud doo without the gozpel en my liife.
It's not prosecution, that will only happen at the of judgement. Good luck... You'll need it. Oh, & Mormonism is not a religion, it is a cult that has been proven false time & time again. Read your own history books (the first editions..)God Bless. Seb
It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smiths impudent fraud.... Smith has turned the Goddess [in Facsimile No. 1] into a king and Osiris into Abraham.[
Something tells me that Joseph Smith probably had to tear those parts out because they were too scandalous and just draw in his own corrections. There is no evidence of this, just my thoughts.
Exactly. Let people read arguments from both sides of the discussion before they make up their minds. Not easy in the real world as there are no centers that specialize in anti-religion arguments, only churches, mosques and temples that specialize on their religion and arguments.
You're just stretching the reality to fit your belief. Don't you understand that your religion tries to create a monopoly to the keys to heaven and eternal life, like any other religion out there? Just belive in Jesus, the Holy Ghost and God and pay 10% of what you earn to our specialized center of brainwashing and indoctrination, or pray three times a day, and you'll get into heaven for sure?
I urge poeple to see Extrodinary people - the boy who lived before.
The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Book of Going Forth by Day : Being the Papyrus of Ani (royal Scribe of the Divine Offerings) ...
By Raymond Oliver Faulkner, Ogden Goelet, Eva Von Dassow
Just because Fac 1 and 3 are currently attached to the BoB, that doesnt mean they were never attached to the BoA. The egyptians were freer with their use of vignettes than anti's would like to admit.
"The displacement of text and image is an important phenomenon which should not simply be ascribed to careless work done on the cheap, for it occurs in materials done of the highest quality. Helmut Brunner noted in his study of the Divine Birth Legend that even in these royal temple scenes the images do not necessarily relate to the texts accompanying them".
"In the Ani Papyrus, several chapters and parts of chapters seem to be written under the wrong vignettes, most notably on Plate 32 where the rubric to Chapter 25 occurs under the unmistakable vignette normally associated with Chapter 126. In Chapter 151, the scribe completely garbled or truncated the text he was copying, sometimes contenting himself with few representative words from a phrase. Yet, in both instances, the vignettes are first rate examples of Egyptian book illustration."
I'm pretty much done. If anyone wants to contiue this discussion with me, feel free to do it thru youtube e-mail. I will respond,but not on this thread.
I am not anti-Mormon. I was baptised into the LDS church in '08. Recently I have found out and have gotten to know too many alarming things about the belief system in the church. The people of the Church are not evil by any means, they are kind gentle spirits. I just can not follow a man built upon a church which has more holes in it than Swiss Cheese. If you can not translate-something correctly as a prophet how could I ever trust any other works. On top of this Joseph Smith was a Mason.
Zahav007 2 weeks ago
The Abraham Papyrus is an absurd fraud and easily disproved. An embarrassment to the Hierarchy . This joke is what Joe conjured up out of his perception of Real Egyptian. He was wrong 100% of the time! Statistically significant but in the wrong direction. So, how much error is there in the Book of Mormon, translated from non existent "reformed" Egyptian for which not a scintilla of evidence exists. And translated with the plates outside and his head in his hat with his pet rock!?
IExposeMormonism 3 weeks ago
Get back in the shed.
MrMFHORN 2 months ago
I look forward to the day when most people realize the Jewish/Christian Bible isn't really that different from Joseph Smith's texts.
Nomiss9 3 months ago
ht tp : / / en . wiki pedia . org / wiki / Book _ o f_ Abraham
Just remove the spaces until you get a valid URL.
Thanks
hammerogod 4 months ago
@AviatorBJP What you're really saying, there, is not that "the church plays the hurt-feelings card" but that the TOP FIFTEEN YO-YOs play the hurt-feelings card: because, when the top leader dogs "feel" a certain way, the rest of the church members just plain get on board with it! ("They ARE good followers, after all, in following, following, following the yellow-brick road of the Morm Corporate Hierarchy)
And, up pops Oaks & reinforces that notion by saying, "DON'T criticize THE BRETHREN..."
Ahashdah 4 months ago
As a follow-up to this vid, people like that young EltonJThe would do well to view the video "Mormonism Disproved in less than 3 minutes". It summarizes, nicely, the point that THIS video is making.
Now, with this NEW INFORMATION (which is "new" to you mormons), go into your West Valley City, Utah ...er, "woods"...and pray, now! Do as James 1:5 asks, you mormon hypocrites! You won't do that, though! You got your entire social system to lose, if you do....you spineless cowards!
Ahashdah 4 months ago
@EltonJThe...Here you are, in a "classroom", young man. LEARN!
Don't close your eyes, when new information is presented to you. Your little missionaries expect others to consider the "new information" that is presented to THEM: why don't you go & do likewise? (lest you prove yourself to be the hypocrite that you really are!)
Let's see. How does it go, for a typical mormn? You say in your heart "One standard for U, and a different one, for me"...
There's NEW INFO 4 U, here, hypocrite!
Ahashdah 4 months ago
@EltonJThe To use the words of Willy Bill Clinton, "You're a funny f***er, aren't you!"
Ahashdah 4 months ago
@Ahashdah At least I asked, and I'm no longer ignorant. How about yourself?
EltonJThe 4 months ago
@cuidadodelcocodrilo Smith--the great and wondrous story teller that he was (according to his mother)-- was good at creating fables and FUDGING things!
He sure had a bunch of gullible idiots for followers! Besides, in my day, we would call such churches "cults of personality" (because charlatans, like Smith, ALWAYS had a "following" a CULT following!)
Ahashdah 5 months ago
@Ahashdah Have you asked God about Joseph Smith?
EltonJThe 4 months ago
@cuidadodelcocodrilo Well, you are a crocodile, for sure! What do you mean that Smith "interpreted" the missing part to be a man's head? He FUDGED the missing parts, you dumb mor(m)on croc-of-crap
Ahashdah 5 months ago
Joey Smith, Junior, the deceiver!
Putting a white man's head, on the black-bodied Anubis: priceless!
Ahashdah 5 months ago
It could also be pointed out that the so-called gods at the bottom which have been proven by Egyptologists to be canopic jars are not the names of any known gods. Almost as if Joseph Smith just made up the names of the gods. Which he did.
Samael51760 6 months ago
To all the patrons on this thread listen very carefully. FOR SOMETHING THAT IS CLAIMED TO BE TRUE - IT IS SURE HARD TO PROVE IT TO BE JUST THAT. THANK GOODNESS THAT THE LEADERS OF THE CHURCH HAVE SO MANY WILLING TO EMBARRASS THEMSELVES TO PROVE THE CHURCH'S CLAIMS.
YAAUFA 7 months ago
A missing jackal head does not illustrate that Smith made an inaccurate interpretation, as PRIESTS would wear a Jackal head when officiating and representing the Egyptian God Anubis. The basic interpretation of a man is actually correct.
cuidadodelcocodrilo 7 months ago
@cuidadodelcocodrilo This facsimile is a burial representation and should be a jackal headed Anubis on the left, and more significantly because it is visible, with the four sons of Horus canopic jars underneath the dead Osiris: The baboon headed HAPY, the human headed IMSETY, the jackal headed DUAMUTEF, and finally the falcon headed QEBEHSENUEF. This 4 jars interpretation is the ONLY explanation from mainstream Egyptology!
jlm2525 7 months ago
@jlm2525 My assertion is that priests would wear a jackal head (head-dress) when officiating and representing the God Anubis... so if Smith missed the jackal head and interpreted the image to represent a priest (i.e., a man, albeit REPRESENTING the God Anubis) instead of "the God Anubis" itself, that does not make his interpretation invalid. To the contrary, Smith's interpretation of "priest" is actually accurate... maybe even more than simply "the God Anubis"
cuidadodelcocodrilo 7 months ago
@cuidadodelcocodrilo Yes, there were priests wearing an Anubis headdress officiating in burials, I give you that. However, in this typical and common burial representation, it is Anubis that we see here, and not a priest. Furthermore, we should see the goddess Isis as a kite flying over Osiris’s middle body to get pregnant with Horus. Nonetheless, Smith is additionally VERY WRONG concerning the FOUR SONS OF HORUS. Modern Egyptology does confirm what I say!
jlm2525 7 months ago
Bill McKeever and Sandra Tanner still cite the Jupiter Talisman story, long after it was exposed as a fraud. The only authority on that Item was Daniel C. Peterson, and he has since recanted his analysis of that supposed artifact. The Jupiter Talisman is a hoax, just like the Salamander Letter, yet Tanner and McKeever still use it to promote their lies. That is an easy litmus test to use on any anti-Mormon jackass who presumes to be an authority on the Church.
mormonmilitia 8 months ago
@mormonmilitia
Except when it was BYU Church history Proffessor Quinn who has the Jupiter Tailsman well documented and very detailed in his book, 'Mormonism and the magic world view'
your just a stupid liar
endofus 8 months ago
sr. usted es un apologista empedernido
Mackonki 11 months ago
It is amazing how I used to try to justify and explain away all of these problems. When your dogma is more important to you than the truth is, it is amazing how ones mind can compartmentalize the facts that support your belief from those that disprove it.
Rather than filter the facts based on our beliefs, we should let our beliefs be molded by the facts.
FlackerMan 1 year ago
Hey, Genius. There are hieroglyphs embedded in the pictures themselves. The most obvious (and simple) example is the Eye of Horus. There are seven hieroglyphs which make up the Eye of Horus. These hieroglyphs spell 'to make or do' or 'one who does.' This technique has been used in Arabic, Chinese Han Zi, and Japanese Kanji for thousands of years. I'm sure you already knew that, didn't you, Professor Knowitall?
mormonmilitia 1 year ago
@mormonmilitia Please, quit advertising your ignorance and listen to those who have make Egyptian hieroglyphics their lifetime work. The degrees of self-delusion, odd coincidences, pointing out arcane and inane "observations".
Face it. JS made a fraudulent "translation" of a burial document & it only looks worse when you try to act as if everything is kosher. I can't imagine how a faithful Saint continues believing knowing that one of the holy books is a joke/
smb12321 8 months ago
@smb12321 ummm.......what do you know of Oriental languages? Also, Egyptology is hardly a mature discipline. There is much more that we still don't know about everything.
mormonmilitia 8 months ago
@mormonmilitia The hallmark of Oriental languages is tonality. Mongolian & Chinese are geographically "Oriental" but Mongolian is agglutinative - not tonal. Egyptian is not Oriental.
I guess you think by spouting things like "Egyptology is not mature" folks will agreed. One can obtain a degree in Egyptology at Harvard, Brown, Brandeis, John Hopkins, Cornell & Princeton. Of course, to Saints, its not mature because it doesn't agree with their wacky beliefs or JS's "translation".
smb12321 8 months ago
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May I refer you to Voices from the Dust by Glenn A. Scott. Available at:
School of Saints
520 W. Maple
Indep.,MO 64050
Fax 816-833-0491 24-h
Brother Scott has performed considerable archeological studies in South America. In his book you will find ample proof. The Book of Mormon is also available here. In the last few pages of the BOM is a promise for you. If you read the book with an honest desire to know it is true, asking God, you will know beyond a doubt. Please pray.
3511able 1 year ago
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jlm2525 1 year ago
Facsimile 1 has been proven to be 100% correct. This guy needs to do more research. There are BIG differences in the one in this picture (even the original) and other common lion-couch images. "You won't find jackals with a knife." There's a book in the British Museum that is about Egypt with a picture of a jackal with a knife. See the bird? The wings are usually not down. This is the only thing like it to have a crocodile on it.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish Mainstream egyptologists completely disagree with you. First of all, the Gods of Elkenah are in reality the 4 sons of Horus, namely -- Duamutef, Qebesenuef, Imsety, and Hapy represented as canopic jars. Egyptologists have confirmed over and over that the Goddess Isis in the form of a bird is shown overflying on top of Osiris to get magically pregnant with her husband. I have 3 books that confirm the Isis-Osiris account.
jlm2525 1 year ago
@jlm2525 And yet this facsimile is completely different from any other. Oh, a knife being in it is not out of place. Book of the Dead in the British Museum. Look it up. :) And I also know that's not Isis as a bird. I printed out a copy of the facsimile from the scroll. Trust me, that's not even close to being part of a wing over the body. This guy has his version with the guy having no top clothing. There are places this guy seems to have missed. Joseph Smith actually had it right.
majinish 1 year ago
@majinish I don't seem to be finding that knife with Anubis or was it Wepwawet, another canine deity? Anubis was also depicted without a top shirt like the one from the tomb of Shoshenq displayed in the Egyptian Museum in Cairo. I assume that you're saying that those are finger tips rather than feather tips. It's arguable and I'm gonna go with mainstream Egyptology on this one!
jlm2525 1 year ago
@jlm2525 It was either Anubis or a jackal but I'd say either since Anubis has the head of a jackal. The one laying down in this image does have clothing on the top half. A few lines make all the difference and this guy on the video forgot something that's on the neck that would indicate clothing. Since I have a printed clear copy of the facsimile I can tell it's not like how this guy thinks it is.
majinish 1 year ago
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jlm2525 1 year ago
@majinish Not even the Mormon Church has an entire restored original copy! What do you mean you have a full printed clear copy of the facsimile? Well, in the 1967 original, the whole top of the laying down Osiris is missing all the way to under the chin except for the shoulder line under the neck. Furthermore, the crocodile (no alligators in Egypt) IS drawn on the bottom on the Egyptologist version.
jlm2525 1 year ago
@majinish It looks like both J.S. and the Egyptologist drew the bird’s wings facing down. BTW, the Dendera, Egypt scene has TWO BIRDS. You are saying nothing about the FOUR SONS OF HORUS!
jlm2525 1 year ago
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jlm2525 1 year ago
@majinish This facsimile doesn't seem that different from ordinary funerary hieroglyphs. Anubis usually stands on the side as in the video assisting Isis in the resurrection of Osiris. Isis is at times depicted as a bird on top of a laying down Osiris like in the Roman period western roof chapel in the temple of Hathor in Dendera, Egypt. Almost forgot, what about the 4 SONS OF HORUS: 1)Human headed IMSETY 2)Baboon headed HAPY 3)Jackal headed DUAMUTEF and 2)Falcon headed QEBESENUEF?
jlm2525 1 year ago
@jlm2525 except this one has an alligator, the wings of the bird are down, the figure laying on the table has clothing, and a couple more.
majinish 1 year ago
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jlm2525 1 year ago
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Outlaw1257 1 year ago
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All religions are false. None are what they claim to be and they are all deceivers and not to be trusted.
SanRafaelSwell 1 year ago
Reformed Egyptian isn't a real language. Joseph Smith made it up, just like everything else.
SanRafaelSwell 1 year ago
I'm sorry but all the Egyptologists have to be wrong because Joseph Smith Jr was a "Prophet" ... Joseph had to be right.
hammerogod 1 year ago
Good point....Joseph Smith should have just joined one of those other true churches.
And besides...we don't even exist. There would have to be a Creator....or else...we need to believe that.the law of entropy is false...since .we are organizing into creations spontaneously.
Right?
My coffee table isn't disintegrating gradually over time....it is turning into a whale.
frnnt 1 year ago
The problem with the "god dun it" argument is that it creates more questions than it answers. The appropriate position for the unknown is "I don’t know." The lack of knowledge is not a license for people to make crazy shit up. As for our origins, there are several competing hypotheses, some just happen to be backed up by reliable evidence and are therefore more credible than others that say “just believe me or your are going to burn in hell.”
AviatorBJP 1 year ago
When are all you Abrahamics going to start studying and come to the realization that all this religious non-sense is a lie. You have been grandly deceived, herded into a trap that you are too afraid to poke your head out of. You are an insult to humanity, stay away from my children.
holio84 1 year ago
What a bunch of hypocrites you all are! Let me ask you a question! How in the hell do you know these things are false? Have you read the book of Abraham, Bible, Book of Mormon, L. Ron Hubbard etc etc? In till you do and you have the right to speak the lets face it.. YOU DONT KNOW SHIT!!! As for me.., I have read ABR, BOM and KNOW them to be true! As for Hubbard.., I have skimmed though his beliefs along with other Theology. If you want to talk the talk, walk the walk first!!!!!
djdhcp22 1 year ago
@djdhcp22 If you want to start talking about the book of mormon, there is a whollist of problems that it has too. One itsy bitsy tiny tiny example would be, uh, let me think... IRON ORE.
AviatorBJP 1 year ago
both explinations given are believable....you can't proof either way...
djgarner28 1 year ago
And of course we know everything about Egypt and its writings or how the pyramids were raised and so forth....Egypt's culture is clear to us unmistakably. No room for a different interpretation of a symbolic drawing.
Trahaman 2 years ago
I am repeatedly surprised by the one-sided nature of many the critics of Mormonism. Can we ever, even for a second, talk about some of the things that we know Smith got right? The sum total of which moves beyond happenstance and should give us pause to really pay attention to both sides. And yes, I'm talking to LDS crowd who can sometimes be just as divisive and mean spirited as the anti-mormon coterie.
ikesteroma 2 years ago
are you a brain dead idiot? it is so obvious that he made this entire thing up. so what if he got a few things right.... so did nostradamus... remember even a broken clock is right twice a day
thejizzman99 2 years ago 3
I echo thejizzman99's response: a broken clock is still tells you the right time twice a day. As for the mean spiritedness of "anti-mormons:" ANY and I mean ANY critisism of the LDS church, big or small, appearantly makes someone an "evil anti-mormon." The church just plays the hurt feelings card way too often whenever someone tries honest skeptical inquiry.
AviatorBJP 2 years ago 19
You bring up a good point about LDS people being overdefensive about "honest skeptical inquiries." The overreaction often leads to a shouting contest where no dialogue takes place. I will be the first to admit that my fellow Mormons could and should do a better job in maintaining a Christlike attitude.
There are answers to these skeptical inquiries, and I would have love debate the guy who does this video - had I had the time to dedicate towards it.
ikesteroma 2 years ago
@AviatorBJP
It goes beyond that. Church leaders teach that being intellectual is very bad and one shouldn't do it. Essentially they ask their members to stop thinking. Of course this makes sense because if the members of the LDS Church would leave the church once they realized the truth.
SanRafaelSwell 1 year ago
@SanRafaelSwell Any person or orginization who asks you to take it on faith has already lost the argument. I just find it funny that even though they want the members to be "Sheep", they pride themselves on how many members have college degrees. Irony....
AviatorBJP 1 year ago
@AviatorBJP
Don't need to accept the information in order to get a degree. All you need is to know the information, doesn't mean they accept it, unfortunately.
SanRafaelSwell 1 year ago
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@SanRafaelSwell
"It goes beyond that. Church leaders teach that being intellectual is very bad and one shouldn't do it. Essentially they ask their members to stop thinking."
This is categorically false. Quite the contrary; the exact opposite is true.
RexLindsey 1 year ago
he got nothing right. Joseph smith, like L.Ron Hubbard was just making shit up.
ccheng21 2 years ago 17
@ccheng21 Did you know that L. Ron Hubbard was a "Fictional" author. He was a writer of fictional books...in other words, he was really good at making things up.
AppleZfan01 1 year ago
He 'fills in the gaps' through God's divine power....
robbiehammie 2 years ago
Look how much venom and contention comes from works such as this. The devil is laughing at all of you as you writhe in your loathing.
CaptainSaber7 2 years ago
I would like to hear a Mormon defend this. They are so blind to the facts and they willfully close their minds because they already "know the book is true".
sneedledout 2 years ago
to answer your question sneedleout: Mormons don't defend it. They just don't ever ever ever talk about it. I know. I just barely got out of the dang religion. The church doesnt teach any sunday school lessons about it, they just pretend it doesn't exist. I never heard anything about it for the 20 years I was a mormon, other than myself stumbling upon it. Once I learned just a smidgeon of egyptology, I knew the thing was crap.
AviatorBJP 2 years ago
Same here, Aviator, those damn missionaries fooled me into joining
GangstaStatus714 2 years ago
Do you really believe that Joseph Smith saw God and Jesus Christ? How could Smith have seen God in 1820 when he said in Doctrine and Covenant 84:21-22 that without the Priesthood, no man can see God?
theminimumdog 2 years ago 2
For one, we can start with the many and varied accounts of the "resurrection", none of which tell the same story. Among other things, all of the main characters in the story are supposed to be Jewish, yet they deliberately break Jewish burial laws. Are we simply supposed to be so "wowed" by the story that we don't notice these things?
StaceyC123 2 years ago
"American Antiquities and Discoveries in The West", Josiah Priest, c.1826. ( I have 3 copies of 1831-33) Priest pub' letters between CHAMPOLLION and CS Rafinesque. Rafinesque describes many linguistic similarities among Indian languages and Europian/Mediterranian languages. From p. 303-335 numerous finds are discussed. CHAMPOLLION was well known in 1831 and Joe is without excuse. Many documentaries dealing with Joe and the BofA state Champollion was unknown in the USA, Not True. Joe needs help!
IExposeMormonism 2 years ago
Joseph Smith was a confirmed LIAR who told so many lies that they started to conflict with one another; the really amazing thing is that some people can be so deluded as to believe anything that this shyster ever claimed.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
flawed premise, flawed conclusion. pls pack an extra pair of underdrawers for when u shit your pants in realization that you were hood winked by your leader, Satan. Party now while u can......
littleiamful 2 years ago
If I don't believe in your imaginary "god", what makes you think I believe in your imaginary "satan" either, halfwit? Religion is a pacifier for dimwits who can't accept the fact that they are going to die, and the Mormon religion in particular is a good example of exactly how much shit people will willingly swallow in order to do ANYTHING to give themselves that pacifier.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
What makes you think atheism isn't a pacifier for those who don't wish live with the implications of the existence of God?
aaronshaf2006 2 years ago
Because atheism is the default position in the absence of any evidence for the existence of your imaginary "god"; there's no more evidence for YOUR "god" than there is for the existence of "Ra", or "Shiva" or "Odin", or "Zeus", or any of the OTHER imaginary gods that con-men have come up with in order to gain power and wealth. You're going to have to come up with some actual EVIDENCE if you want people with some degree of intelligence to believe in your fairy-tales.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
@aaronshaf2006
Atheism is the lack of theistic beliefs, nothing more. The LDS religion is complete bogus and is VERY simple to illustrate as such.
SanRafaelSwell 1 year ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If your imaginary "god" exists, and is as powerful as you brainwashed cultists like to claim, there's absolutely nothing stopping said "god" from letting me know about it right now. as it is, there is NOTHING that makes any one of your superstitions stand out above any of the rest, and religion is nothing more than an atavistic hold-over from the days when people lived in caves and tried to explain things that didn't make sense to them.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
EVERY cult is convinced that it, and it alone, has "the truth", and your superstition is nothing special in that regard; what your cult (or any of the others) DOESN'T have is any sort of proof for their claims, so where does that leave rational humans like myself? Should I believe in your imaginary friend just because you really, really believe in it (the exact same way that every OTHER superstition does), or should I demand to see evidence? That's what I do for everything else.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago 2
My "motive" is to believe as many true things and as few false things in the relatively short time I spend alive, and it disgusts me when I see snake-oil salesmen spewing their unsubstantiated bullshit as "the Truth". Without evidence or proof, your superstition is in exactly the same spot as EVERY OTHER superstition or cult, and no amount of new-age "I feel your pain" crapola can change that, fool.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
Don't jump to conclusions so fast; I HAVE read the Bible, the Koran, the Torah, and my girlfriend is a Buddhist, and after evaluating the arguments presented, NONE of them make any sort of a convincing case. They are all based on the same thing: selling something that doesn't exist, no different than any other cult. I've come to grips with my mortality, and have accepted it; it's a shame that people like you can't, and have to latch onto myths to try to avoid the certainty that you'll die.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
Where do you get the idea that I'm "yelling" at anyone? I certainly don't buy any of the myths and superstitions that "true believers" of any cult seem to accept without question, but that's exactly what I do on ANY issue, not just this one. What's more, you probably do to, and it's only in this one case that you're willing to gullibly accept any line of crap without logical thought, simply because it relates to your superstition.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
I've already FOUND what I'm looking for, but I can't help being disgusted when I see you shysters selling a lie, no differently than the Scientologists, or the Raelians, or the Mormons, or any other crackpot superstition. If your fantasy helps you get up in the morning, that's fine, but it's still nothing more than a fantasy, no better than believing that Zeus is sitting on a cloud waiting to throw thunderbolts.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
How can you claim to know that I'm "looking for" ANYTHING, let alone claim that I haven't found it? Is this one of the magical powers that your imaginary magic man in the sky is supposed to give you, or is it just something you pulled out of your ass? Like I said before, I personally don't care what insupportable bug dung YOU were brainwashed into, but when I see someone being sucked in by a scam (be it financial, religious, political, or anything else) why shouldn't I speak out?
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
Like I said below, I personally don't CARE what insupportable bug dung you were brainwashed into, but I think people have a right to know that it's nothing more than a fantasy, no different from any other superstition or cult. If you don't like "pulled it out of your ass", would you maybe prefer "just made up"? I believe the majority of people are intelligent enough to see cults like yours for the scams they are, but they need to be exposed to both sides in order to actually THINK about it.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
I've found my peace, thanks. Which of the truckloads of contradictions in your little magic book would you like to start with?
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
What, now you don't WANT to talk about the contradictions in your little magic book? Like I said before, in order to make a decision on this issue, I did what any rational person would do, and I evaluated the arguments on both sides (what all of us hopefully do on ANY issue). Your superstition contradicts itself so many times, and is such a display of immorality by your "god" and other characters, that a four-year-old can see the holes in its story.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
You're going to take your little magic book and run away so soon? Your cult "explains away" contradictions in the exact same way that every OTHER cult does, by ignoring them. Jewish burial law says, among other things, that males aren't allowed to have anything to do with a dead female body or vice versa, so why is it that your cult claims that "Mary" went to "anoint the body"? This is a hole the size of a Saturn V rocket in the fairy-tale, but you all skip right over it.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
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TheSavedSinner 2 years ago
No, that means that your little magic book isn't telling you the truth; your fairy tale claims that "Mary" (plus however many OTHER women; the different stories give different accounts) went to "anoint the body", AND that they were Jewish, but these things directly contradict each other. As Jews, women are FORBIDDEN from having anything to do with a dead male body, so your book is lying to you on one hand or the other. We still haven't even touched on the OTHER contradictions of your myth.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Hey Stacey, Jesus loves you but everyone else thinks you are a jerk. LOL
TheChristianSoldier1 2 years ago
And the Easter Bunny loves you, but everyone else knows that you're a deranged lunatic :-)
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Stacey...Why are you so mad at everything? Lighten up dude. You need counseling. If people want to believe in God, what is that to you? Your motive is you dont want them to be "decieved?" How noble of you. I wouldnt worry about THEM so much, I'd worry about either spending eternity in Hell or going to heaven when you die. WHAT IF THEY ARE RIGHT? HMMM...If you are right and there is no God, were all "worm food." If Christians are right, think of the consequences. I'd repent if I were you.
boyslikegurlzfan 2 years ago
This is a rewording of Pascal's wager, which was debunked so long ago it isn't even funny; you assume that there are only two options - that your particular superstition is right, and everyone else is wrong. There are more options than that. If your imaginary "god" had the powers ascribed to it, it could make its existence known to everyone instantly, and it would KNOW if you were believing "just in case", but that hasn't happened, so it's just as imaginary as all the rest.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
yuk, yuk, yuk.
canadianbacon007 2 years ago
wow - i couldn't get through 30 seconds of this video before losing track of how many misrepresentations and wrong assertions there were. ultimately - 98% of what is said or asserted here is distorted or flat out wrong.
tlobarker 2 years ago
Such as? Joseph Smith has been proven to be a liar time and time again, and this only explains yet ANOTHER one of his lies.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Well for example, the man says that Joseph drew the head and the knife, etc., but nobody knows when those pieces became detached, or who actually drew them in. He is accusing Joseph, but has no proof that Joseph actually drew them in! There is a painting of Lucy Smith (Joseph's mom) with fac 1 mounted on her wall - complete. This painting was after Joseph died, and before his mom died, indicating that the entire fac 1 deteriorated later. Do a little homework before making dumb accusations.
tlobarker 2 years ago
The bullshit artist Smith made the claim that this scene described one of the fairy-tales in the bible, and FURTHER claimed that he could read it (doubtless, he claimed that it was written in "reformed Egyptian", the imaginary language he claimed that his imaginary "gold book" was written in). The above video PROVES that Joseph Smith was simply a con-man who was able to sucker a bunch of gullible sheep, like L. Ron Hubbard.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Wow. I guess my first question is how come you are so pissed off? The above video only proves that the presenter has done absolutely zero research, and is simply regurgitating the same garbage that has been previously answered over the last 40 years. As far "gullible sheep," let me ask what research you have done? It sounds like your entire position is simply following whatever the guy in the video says (and he is simply repeating others). I guess that would make you kind of like a sheep?
tlobarker 2 years ago
Its kind of ironic that you refer to us as gullible sheep - when it was actually Carl Mosser and Paul Owens (Evangelicals) that said the Evangelical community needs to wake up and get their heads in the game, since Mormons have answered most of the accusations against them, and answered a lot of them well over 60+ years ago. They accuse critics of Mormonism of being sloppy, and regurgitating stuff that has long since been disproven. Seems kind of like your accusations (baseless) and the video.
tlobarker 2 years ago
How about Smith's equally-ludicrous claim that he was "given the book of mormon by an angel, and that book was made of gold"? The story he tells of running 3 miles carrying that book (which would have weighed a minimum of 100 pounds, given the dimensions claimed) WHILE fighting off 3 men who were trying to steal it is an obvious LIE, and can be tested by anyone with a 100-pound weight and a running track. So, do you prefer to believe a lie or the truth?
StaceyC123 2 years ago
I'm not parrticularly pissed off, it just astounds me that people who claim to be "intelligent" can be taken in so easily by scam artists the likes of Joseph Smith, L.Ron Hubbard, and OTHER religious hucksters. The con-man Smith claimed to be able to "read" hieroglyphics in exactly the same way he claimed to be able to "read reformed Egyptian" (which doesn't even EXIST), yet mindless fools gobbled his crap up without a second thought.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Ok - Stacey - since you are apparently more intelligent than all Mormons, perhaps you can clarify. Are you smarter than Kim Clark, former Dean of the Harvard Business School? Or maybe Steven Covey who presents the ideals in his book to top business execs regularly. What about John Huntsman, US Ambassador to China? Or thousands of others who are very intelligent, but not celebrity status? What about me? I'm just a corporate auditor who'd rather spend all day at the library
tlobarker 2 years ago
It was Charles Dickens who made the same assumptions as you, and then after seeing a group of Mormons headed to America, he called them "the picking flower of England." Our believing in Joseph Smith as a Prophet, and the Book of Mormon or Abraham, is no more ludicrous than Moses parting the Red Sea, or Elijah being taken up in a whirlwhind. When you try to apply the science of the dimensions of the "gold plates" please do the same for me with Elijah and Moses since you are more intelligent.
tlobarker 2 years ago
Oh, one other comment. There is such a thing as "reformed Egyptian," TWO examples of such are Demotic and Hieratic.
tlobarker 2 years ago
And no, Demotic and Hieratic AREN'T "reformed Egyptian"; they have the same relationship to hieroglyphs as Fraktur has to present-day German, or the different forms of Cyrillic have to spoken Russian. However, "reformed Egyptian" is EXACTLY the sort of bullshit that a fraud like Joseph Smith would glibly lie about in order to sucker in the rubes, since he knew no-one would ever call him a liar to his face on it.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Did I say I believed THEIR lines of bullshit any more than I believe Joseph Smith's? The only real difference between any of these hucksters is that Smith was lucky enough to find a semi-literate group of people who were willing to believe his lies relatively recently in history; selling "eternal life" is the perfect scam, since you're never going to have to deal with a customer coming back and saying "Hey! Where's the eternal life I was promised?"
StaceyC123 2 years ago
I'm certainly intelligent enough to not be taken in by a slick-talking bullshit peddler like Joseph Smith, if that's what you mean. Unfortunately, religion is a mental disease that is primarily passed on from parents to children, while those children are still too young to recognize lies, and implicitly TRUST their parents. Once indoctrinated, they (and YOU, apparently), won't ever bother to take a close second look at what they believe and why, so the cult continues.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Oh yes, that all makes sense...except for the fact that many people convert to religion never having grown up with any religion. They aren't too intelligent either, in fact, one guy I baptized was only a nuclear engineer. The fact that religion is so meaningless to you is apparent considering your indifference. Oh wait, you aren't indifferent, you are hostile towards religion.
tlobarker 2 years ago
You are right it is much wiser, to assume that everything taught by parents is completely untrue.
As far as Demotic and Hieratic - yes they are reformed Egyptian! That is exactly what they are!!! The hieroglyphs were simplified (i.e., reformed), for convenience. You are a real bright one, no doubt about that.
tlobarker 2 years ago
Not ASSUME, dumbass, QUESTION. QUESTIONING things is the only real way humans have of ever discovering ANYTHING, yet religions do their best to stifle that by saying "You can trust us, because we KNOW what we're talking about; after all, we got it straight from "god", so we couldn't lie about it". If Smith's "golden book" was anything BUT a convenient lie, we would have some sort of record of either the book itself OR "reformed Egyptian", but Egyptologists LAUGH at the mention of it, fool.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
And you're a bigger fool than I thought if you imagine that hieroglyphs are a "simpler" form of demotic or hieratic; exactly the OPPOSITE is true, and hieroglyphics were the script used only for "official" and "ceremonial" writing, such as on buildings, tombs, important papyri, etc.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
What can I tell you? Some people are so transfixed by the thought of their own mortality that they are willing to believe ANY line of bullshit in an attempt to convince themselves that they're never going to die, whether that something is "Trust me; if you blow yourself to taco filling, you'll get 72 virginsafter you die", or "Trust me; if you believe in our cult, you'll get to go to heaven as a god yourself". Simple-minded promises for simple-minded people.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
whew - ok. Demotic and hieratic are a simplier (reformed) method of hieroglyphs because of the convenience in writing. It is much more efficient in writing this style than hieroglyphs. As far as the rest of your blundering comments - you aren't questioning anything - you are condemning everything. You assume that your conclusion is the only valid one. You assume that we simply "trust" our Mormon leaders, when the reality is that all of Mormonism is based on personal revelation.
tlobarker 2 years ago
You think because you haven't found an adequate answer, nobody has. You assume a lot of things without really knowing anything. You think that the evidence you require for the Book of Mormon is the only acceptable evidence; however, millions of converts disagree with you. As far as Egyptologists- John Gee received his Ph.D. from Yale in Egyptology and believes. Your generalizing and logical fallacies are getting annoying. Its clear you have blinded yourself to your own preconceived notions.
tlobarker 2 years ago
Not at all; I'm willing to look at any evidence someone may have to offer, but your superstition falls even further short in that commodity than most others do. The NUMBERS of people who may believe your nonsense is no indication of its truth, any more than the numbers of people who believe islam, Christianity, or Judaism are indicators of THEIR truth. There is no shortage of gullible people, and there's a sucker born every minute.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Only that demotic and hieratic are EARLIER forms of writing than hieroglyphs are, so they're NOT "reformed Egyptian" any more than they're "reformed Polish". Now, since you've simply swallowed the BS fairy-tale that Joseph Smith spun out for the rubes, you're not "questioning" ANYTHING; among other things, you don't even bother to look at the more likely alternative explanations for all of the lies that Smith told, because the last thing you want to do is think critically about his tales.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
And this is the problem with most critics of Joseph Smith - ad hominem attacks & no substantiation for a real criticism. You aren't willing to look at any evidence besides that fed to you by anti-Mormons who know the lies they are disseminating. I don't wish to continue any conversation with you because your facts are backwards, your accusations childish, and I feel like I'm trying to rationalize with an emotional teenager. If you were interested in evidence you'd consider adequate sources.
tlobarker 2 years ago
Since undoubtedly you'll accuse me of hypocrisy-I should note that I have read, all the articles from Sunstone, Dialogue, BYU Studies, Ensign, as well as Larson's book on the subject of Abraham. I found the evidence for condemning the Book of Abraham significantly lacking. It almost baffles me as to why critics ignore the mountain of apocryphal literature that substantiates the BoA text and then I remember their motives-they "lie in wait to deceive." Surely, you'll get the last word-have at it.
tlobarker 2 years ago
In other words, Mormons "substantiated" Joseph Smith's lies for him, just as Muslims "substantiated" Mohammed's lies for him, and Christians "substantiated" all of the fairy-tales in their little magic book for each other; what an absolute SHOCK. Your superstition is an absolute farce, begun by a shyster, yet you have willingly blinded yourself to simple logic in an effort to try to make the facts fit your superstition.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
It's not an "ad hominem" when this BS artist failed to provide even a single solitary scrap of evidence in support of all of his lies; since HE was the one making these claims, it was up to HIM to provide that evidence, but he instead chose the route that scam artists and cult leaders have since time immemorial; "believe or else". The things that we ARE able to test (his "translations", his "running with a gold book" story, etc.) show him up for an absolute LIAR, and nothing more.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
I'm not sure which part I was the most correct about, but probably the part about trying to rationalize with an emotional teenager. If you wanted evidence, there is plenty of it.
tlobarker 2 years ago
The trouble is, all the evidence shows Joseph Smith up for the con-man he was; is there any evidence that he "saw an angel"? No, just his claims. That he received a "golden book"/ No, only his claims and the claims of a handful that stood to gain as much from his lies. That he was anything more than a skilled liar and con-man who tried to ride his fairy-tales into the leadership of a group of gullible simpletons? None whatsoever.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Let me know when you are ready for a grown up conversation.
tlobarker 2 years ago
I'm ready, anytime you're willing to provide some actual EVIDENCE for the stories this shyster told. Should I simply take Joseph Smith's (questionable, at best) WORD that he "talked to an angel who gave him a gold book"? If so, then why wouldn't I just as gullibly accept Muhammed's word that he rode around the Middle East on a winged horse, and that an angel told him that "there is no god but allah and you are his prophet"? There's no difference, except the language the lies are told in.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
A grown up conversation would imply that the subject under consideration isn't already condemned under a bunch of preconceived notions. You aren't interested in evidence, otherwise you wouldn't keep bringing up the same old issues that have been answered and available for public use for a good 150 years. You aren't bringing anything new to the table, you are simply regurgitating worn out anti-Mormon criticisms and having uncontrollable emotional outbursts.
tlobarker 2 years ago
All you'd need to do, then is to lay out those "explanations", and show why they're any "more believable" than the simplest answer that is available to all reasonably-intelligent observers at this point: ie. Joseph Smith was a dyed-in-the-wool bullshit artist, who spun these fairy-tales out for the sake of personal power. So far, you have done EXACTLY what every OTHER brainwashed cult member through history has done, claim that "Oh, you just don't want to see the truth". That's BS, as you know.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Well, our initial conversation started with my providing evidence regarding one issue that was false in this video. So in other words, I started to do exactly what you wanted, but you immediately diverted into a million other subjects and childish name calling. That is why I know you aren't interested in reasonable explanations, and no matter how rational the explanation could be, you are so dead set in your position, all that should be expected from you is more of the same ad hominem attacks.
tlobarker 2 years ago
You did no such thing; you claimed that "before 30 seconds were up, you knew it wasn't going to be worth watching because it would only rehash an old claim"; well, he didn't even MAKE any claims before the 30 second mark, but he DID go on to show that Smith's supposed "translation" of this scene wasn't worth a hill of beans. So far, your "prophet" is batting 0 for 1000. The same goes for any evidence of any of the supposed "lost Israeli tribes" he claimed that existed in the Americas.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Your quotation doesn't match what I said. Again, further evidence that you like to twist things to fit your skewed vision. I'm done trying to have a grown up conversation because it isn't going to happen. Good luck in life Stacey.
tlobarker 2 years ago
You SPECIFICALLY said " i couldn't get through 30 seconds of this video before losing track of how many misrepresentations and wrong assertions there were", which is what I paraphrased; if you're not even willing to admit to what you wrote yesterday, why should anyone believe a single word you have to say on anything ELSE, let alone the truth of the cult that this bullshit artist Smith founded? Life is hard, and it doesn't get any easier when you gullibly accept crap without asking questions.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
You got the quote right this time. Last time you inserted the idea that I didn't bother watching the whole video, which was wrong. Actually, thank the Lord, my life is relatively easy. It seems like you must have had a really really hard life though to be as pissed off as you are. I've got sufficient answers and evidence, but of course, me, nor any other Mormon is as intelligent as you are, which you have undoubtedly proved in all of your brilliant comments above. Good bye Stacey.
tlobarker 2 years ago
I didn't "insert" ANYTHING, since your quote specifically says "I couldn't get through 30 seconds....". Since the fellow shown didn't even MAKE any claims before the 30-second mark, that tells me that the last thing you're interested in is answering all of the lies that this bullshit artist Smith told in the founding of this cult.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Standard sloppy anti-Mormonism:
Abbreviated quotations - you ignore the rest of my sentence which clarifies everything.
Diversion - constantly changing the subject and ignoring the evidence i brought up.
Ad Hominem - childish name calling and avoidance of any real issues.
For all your intelligence, you should have understood that the "30 seconds" was sarcastic.
Stacey = sloppy anti-Mormon.
tlobarker 2 years ago
I've brought up issue after issue, yet you follow the standard cult practice of ignoring actual evidence and choosing to believe only what your superstition has spoon-fed to you; standard sloppy cult brainwashing. The "rest of your sentence" clarifies NOTHING, in fact it shows that you didn't even bother to think about the actual issue raised in this video. If Joseph Smith was anything more than the BS artist that the evidence shows him to be, he wouldn't have claimed to translate hieroglyphics.
StaceyC123 2 years ago
Rock on calivideoguy! Rock on!
Dude, you got Hebrews 7:24-26!!!!
That one verse utterly debunks mormonism:
"Therefore He -Jesus- is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them."
We come to God through Christ, NOT through a prophet, not by obeying 'laws and ordinances' and NOT by carrying a temple recommend!
Thank you for your testimony of Jesus, calivideoguy.
Matthew 16:17
hopeforyourlife 2 years ago
This is all just a bunch of lyes. If u wnt to no th tru about gawd's one true church, ask the missionarys.Y do u prosecute us? This jus pruvs its relly trueDo u lik litle boys?
I no that gawd bless me 4 follow his comandmants.
Y don't you reppent of ur sinz? gawd lovz u 2.
Its the fasttest growin religun in the whirled. Y dont u want 2 b mormon? I jus dont no wat i wud doo without the gozpel en my liife.
fubecabr 2 years ago
It's not prosecution, that will only happen at the of judgement. Good luck... You'll need it. Oh, & Mormonism is not a religion, it is a cult that has been proven false time & time again. Read your own history books (the first editions..)God Bless. Seb
sebastiankoor 2 years ago
I would like to bear my testimony to the LDS out here! I am pumped! I love Jesus! I have found Jesus!
I know the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not a true church. I know that Joseph Smith is not a true prophet of God!
calivideoguy 2 years ago 2
Dr. A.H. Sayce, Oxford professor of Egyptology
It is difficult to deal seriously with Joseph Smiths impudent fraud.... Smith has turned the Goddess [in Facsimile No. 1] into a king and Osiris into Abraham.[
Gideon6640 3 years ago
It may be safely said that there is not one single word that is true in these explanations"
Dr. W.M. Flinders Petrie of London University
Gideon6640 3 years ago
Something tells me that Joseph Smith probably had to tear those parts out because they were too scandalous and just draw in his own corrections. There is no evidence of this, just my thoughts.
Tavlo 3 years ago
Exactly. Let people read arguments from both sides of the discussion before they make up their minds. Not easy in the real world as there are no centers that specialize in anti-religion arguments, only churches, mosques and temples that specialize on their religion and arguments.
darkultra 3 years ago
I would be very greatful if someone could point to another BoB, besides Hor's, in which Fac 1 and 3 are attached.
Kolohe86786876786786 3 years ago
Kolohe86786876786786
You're just stretching the reality to fit your belief. Don't you understand that your religion tries to create a monopoly to the keys to heaven and eternal life, like any other religion out there? Just belive in Jesus, the Holy Ghost and God and pay 10% of what you earn to our specialized center of brainwashing and indoctrination, or pray three times a day, and you'll get into heaven for sure?
I urge poeple to see Extrodinary people - the boy who lived before.
darkultra 3 years ago
The Egyptian Book of the Dead: The Book of Going Forth by Day : Being the Papyrus of Ani (royal Scribe of the Divine Offerings) ...
By Raymond Oliver Faulkner, Ogden Goelet, Eva Von Dassow
Just because Fac 1 and 3 are currently attached to the BoB, that doesnt mean they were never attached to the BoA. The egyptians were freer with their use of vignettes than anti's would like to admit.
Kolohe86786876786786 3 years ago
"The displacement of text and image is an important phenomenon which should not simply be ascribed to careless work done on the cheap, for it occurs in materials done of the highest quality. Helmut Brunner noted in his study of the Divine Birth Legend that even in these royal temple scenes the images do not necessarily relate to the texts accompanying them".
Kolohe86786876786786 3 years ago
"In the Ani Papyrus, several chapters and parts of chapters seem to be written under the wrong vignettes, most notably on Plate 32 where the rubric to Chapter 25 occurs under the unmistakable vignette normally associated with Chapter 126. In Chapter 151, the scribe completely garbled or truncated the text he was copying, sometimes contenting himself with few representative words from a phrase. Yet, in both instances, the vignettes are first rate examples of Egyptian book illustration."
Kolohe86786876786786 3 years ago
I'm pretty much done. If anyone wants to contiue this discussion with me, feel free to do it thru youtube e-mail. I will respond,but not on this thread.
Kolohe86786876786786 3 years ago