4) Even the Ebonites(a Christian/jewish sect) who claimed acceptance to the Jamnia council, whent behind the back of the Jamnia jews and hid the 7 books removed at the council in the dea sea, trying to preserve them...of course most of there text is screwed up and forged but it shows that even the Jamnia jews where at odds with each other.
1) Out of 350 quotes of the OT by the apostles over 300 of them where from the Septuagint.
2) The Didache(also know as the doctrin of the apostles, 1st century writting) places the Septuagint as the holy version of the church.
3) The Septuagint is still used by the Africa, Ethiopea, and Alexandrian jews...the Ethiopea and African jews where in seclusion from the rest of the jews from before Christ and there Septuagint has all prophetic books as well as the 7 books removed at Jamnia.
@gtepp031387 ...Origen and his master Clement wrote the Septuigent, it goes back no further than them. They concocted the story of "72 Jewish scholars" as well. Why did they do that? Alexandria was the lead school for Gnosticism and they wanted people to think that Jesus read this document, which is not true. Jesus read from the Hebrew, not a Greek translation fabed up by gnostics. All the early promoters of the LXX, were Gnostics. It is not a BC document, far from it.
@vachief "Origen and his master Clement wrote the Septuigent, it goes back no further than them." Intresting that they have Septuagint fragments that date to 2nd century B.C....liar liar pants on fire!
@vachief "All the early promoters of the LXX, were Gnostics. "
Guess that includes the apostles as well as they quoted from the LXX over 300 times...please stop talking you do not have a clue....The MT that the KJV used to translate from dates only to the 8th century A.D....how funny you are!
The true church is Christianity, which is follower of Christ. Plain and simple. Not all the fluff and misleading traditions of other religions and the catholic church.
@gtepp031387 The problem was, they were all compiled under the orders of Rome. Various books were spread in the Alexandria and Antioch. The first compilation of the Books from the Roman/pagan empire were done under the Council of Nicea, after the Edict of Milan. Most of Constantine scholars got their books from Egypt, authored by Origen which the Greek translation of the Old Testaments, the Septuagint. That's why there are books of Apocrypha, that never found in the Masoteric Texts!
@gearzone2611 uhmm the Septuagint was complied in 300 B.C. Origen was not alive for another 500 years, don't know where your getting this stuff but it is off. In the three apostolic fathers (Ignatius, Clement, Polycarp) nearly all 7 books that you removed in 1630 are quoted from. Get yourself a KJV 1611 and see that you once included all 7 books and later removed them in 1630.
@gtepp031387 I said the Septuagint was compiled already before Origen. But the Septuagint was Not recognized by the Jewish priests. Origen was one of the author and teacher in Alexandria, Egypt. You might as well understand, Egypt is Not the central hub of Christianity. Ignatius, Clement, Polycarp, please explain. Are you talking about the Apocrypha, I don't get your point here. Mind explaining it. I don't get where you heading. I'm a bit confused about your statements here.
@gearzone2611: Of course the Septuaginta was RECOGNIZED BY the JEWISH PRIESTS. The problem was that this bible became so popular in christianity that the Jews LATER rejected this Bible - because they REJECTED CHRIST and CHRSITIANITY.
@adamantis4657 "The Septuagint was recognized by the Jewish priests." Well, I don't know about that. Why would they recognized a Greek version, which it has an utterly translated badly. When in fact, the Jewish priests were actually holding and preserving the very Hebrew Writings. The Septuagint, wasn't accepted by the Jewish communities and in the Christian early records. Much of the writings by the disciples came from the Hebrew Writings, and Not in Greek version/the Septuagint.
@gearzone2611 Actually the Septuagint was complied and accepted by the Jews. It was the first time the intire scripture was complied into one book. It was put together by order of the Jewish high priest, who assembled the top 70 teachers of the law and had them tranlsate the text. They where locked into seperat rooms two by two and upon finishing all copies matched word for word.
@gearzone2611 The Septuagint was reconized by Jewish priests from the years 300 B.C. - 70 A.D....it was the Jewish high priest who gathered the top 70 teachers of the LAW and sent them to the king....sry but you need to study up.
@gtepp031387 Here is the issues buddy. The Septuagint was translated by unknown scholars, whatever who they are. Much of the received texts of the Greek translation of the Septuagint were found, and handed in the Alexandria, Egypt. When in fact, the Hebrew Old Testament Texts, are actually in Israel, not in Egypt. Since Greek was the common carriage of language. This is the reason why, there was version of Greek in the Hebrew Writings. Scholars must study more on the book of LXX.
@gearzone2611 The Hebrew old test has no original in existance, the Septuagint does. The apostles quoted from the Septuagint over 300 times, the only writter that used the Hebrew was matthew as he originally wrote his gople in Aramaic.
@gearzone2611 My point in Ignagtius, Clement, and Polycarp, is they are the direct sucessores of the apostles, and it is clear from there writtings which book they are using and that is the Septuagint. They clearly rejected the council of Jamnia and follwed the direction of the apostles.
@gtepp031387 You said, "direct succesors of the apostles,..." This statement has no historical records, nor anything that supports in the writings of the manuscripts. By just reading the entirety of the New Testaments, it has no records that the 12 Apostles has a records of successors. This is where, the unbiblical teachings of the Roman Catholicism, that were cultivated through changing times. The Revelation is the last book of the Bible. The Council of Jamnia? I dont see any link.
@gearzone2611 By the way Masoteric text that we have today is not the same as the original that was kept in the Jewish high temple, even the Jews realized the forgery at the council of Jamnia and to this day the Jews in Ethiopea and Africa hold to the Septuagint and not the falsified scripture that came from the Jewish council of Jamnia that rejected Christ and the apostles as well as the NT.
@gtepp031387 The Masoteric Texts is the original Hebrew Old Testaments, that was handed down by the Levites priests. Then autograph many times by the Levites. What council of Jamnia? Buddy, the Levites priests were handling and preserving the books of the OT. The Old Testaments was been translated into Greek, Latin, Chinese, and so on, so are the books of the New Testaments. I do not get your saying! The O.T. has been translated many times, either in M.Texts and Alexandrian version!
@adamantis4657 "The Hebrew Texts was corrupted." Atleast, tell us why it was corrupt. By saying, "...it is no the Original Text." Bud, every scholars and Christians knows that all that scriptures that we all received are, autographs, not an Original Texts anymore. The Original Writings, were all gone. But the Masoteric Texts provided enough supports and evidence, that it was an Original Copies from the Original Writings. Who are the Orthodox Scholars anyways? This one's new to me.
@gearzone2611 Direct apostolic sucessores that is right. Clement is mentioned in the bible as a co-worker of the apostles who's name is in the book of life. The matter is that without the historical records outside of what became the bible, we would not have a bible.The bible did't drop from the sky but was put together using tradition that largley relied on the same tradition that stated who the apostolic sucessores where.
@gearzone2611 Direct apostolic sucessores that is right. Clement is mentioned in the bible as a co-worker of the apostles who's name is in the book of life. The matter is that without the historical records outside of what became the bible, we would not have a bible.The bible did't drop from the sky but was put together using tradition that largley relied on the same tradition that stated who the apostolic sucessores where.
@gearzone2611 The original masoteric text was on a bunch of scrolls held in the temple, which was utterly destroyed in 70 A.D. The jews then called a council to try to figure out what to do(Jamnia) they did not have the original scrolls anymore as they where destoyed along with the temple, they put together a fake text that was rejected even by the Jewish people, and the Christians opposed it from the first bell.
@gtepp031387 Exactly! Scholars discovered that the Masoteric Texts has more precised copies and wordings. I don't know why, your telling this that "...is not the same as the original that was kept in the Jewish high temple..." The problem is, so are the copies of the New Testaments. They are not the original. They are autographs from the Original writings. I do not know why, you keep pursuing the issues of the Council of Jamnia, I had no clue. As long, they keep publishin the Bible.
@gearzone2611 No the masoteric text is not correct what are the scholars comparing to?....the dead sea scrolls?....those came from a group know as the Ebonites and guess what they accepted the council of jaminia so of course they would have it the same way. We have copies of the some of the NT that date to the mid 1st century so basically original or second copy..almost everything you say is way off please give me some sources so i can look in at where your getting this stuff.
@gearzone2611 What copy of original Hebrew do you have that is older then the Septuagint....There are none that exist...the septuagint is the oldest copy of the OT period, and is the most accurate....the apostles used it, probley from the guidance of Christ. The apostolic sucessores and all the early christians used and quoted from it.
@gtepp031387 Hebrew Bible canon closed approximately 423 BCE during the time of Ezra/ Nehemiah "Jamnia" or Yavneh in Hebrew, was the place of a council of Jewish sages who met in 90 CE. They sought to preserve the Jews as a people while in exile and without the centrality of the Temple.
@gtepp031387 Their primary tasks were to set up schools, designate sages, Among their tasks was to affirm that any books attached to the Tanakh of the Hellenized versions of scripture that were being spread were not claimed to be part of the Tanakh.
@gtepp031387 Some Christian apologist scholars often try to claim that this was when the Jewish Bible's canon was FORMED in response to Christianity, ignoring that their early Christian writings by the early Church Fathers refer to the Jewish scriptures as a formed work prior to the writing of their New Testament!
@gtepp031387 The council of these earliest rabbis were concerned that without the centrality of the Temple and the dispersion of Jews, the Hellenist apologists and Romans would corrupt the Tanakh by altering it through mistranslation into Greek and adding pagan precepts. There is no doubt that all the texts admitted into the Prophets and Writings were already a part of the Tanakh long before Yavneh.
@gtepp031387 Some of the texts that Judaism never considered as a part of Jewish scripture were early apologetic attempts to tie in Christian dogma to the Tanakh. Some texts were pre-Christian attempts to Hellenize Judaism. Both the Greek and Roman conquerers tried to assimilate the Jewish people out of existence through such methods. The texts known as Pseudepigrapha were largely written between 200 BCE and 100 CE and included great amounts of Greek philosophy.
@gtepp031387 The Apocrypha (Greek, "hidden books") are Jewish books not considered part of the Holy Scriptures of Judaism but were written largely by Hellenized Jews during a period of Greek occupation and were attempts to syncrtize the conflicting belief systems. Pseudepigrapha (Greek, "falsely attributed") was given to Jewish writings, which were attributed to authors who did not actually write them..
@gtepp031387 The rest of Tanakh was translated from the Hebrew to the Greek over the course of about 300 years and scholars cannot tell who or when exactly any of them were translated. Yet the common name of Septuagint is now generally applied to the whole Greek translation.**The Greek Septuagint called the Old Testament is not a Jewish document, but rather a Christian one.
@revoltingamerica The Septuagint was compiled before Christainity even came about, so you are just spouting nonsence. The Jewish high priest appoved of the Septuagint and authorized the translation of the text.
@gtepp031387 The original Septuagint, created 2,200 years ago by 72 Jewish translators, was a Greek translation of the Five Books of Moses alone. It therefore did not contain prophetic Books of the Bible such as Isaiah.The Septuagint as we have it today, which includes the Prophets and Writings as well, is a product of the church, not the Jewish people.
@revoltingamerica uhmm sry again but the Septaugint has all the prophetic books, the apostles quote from the greek version of the prophets nearly 300 times, they rarly quoted from the five books of Mosses...so clearly you are liying, as it is very clear that the prophetic books where also included in the Greek translation...any other lies?
@gtepp031387 In fact, the Septuagint remains the official Old Testament of the Greek Orthodox Church, and the manuscripts that consist of our Septuagint today date to the third century C.E. The fact that additional books known as the Apocrypha, which are uniquely sacred to the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church, are found in the Septuagint should raise a red flag to those inquiring into the Jewishness of the Septuagint.
@revoltingamerica uhmm the church fathers specifically the apostolic fathers(Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp) quote from nearly all 7 before the close of the 2nd century so your 3rd century nonsence is clearly disproven....care to lie anymore?
@gtepp031387 The fact that the original Septuagint translated by Jewish scribes more than 22 centuries ago was only of the Pentateuch and not of prophetic books of the Bible such as Isaiah is confirmed by countless sources including the ancient Letter of Aristeas, which is the earliest attestation to the existence of the Septuagint.
@gtepp031387 The Talmud also states this explicitly in Tractate Megillah (9a), and Josephus as well affirms that the Septuagint was a translation only of the Law of Moses in his preface to Antiquities of the Jews. Moreover, Jerome, a church father and Bible translator who could hardly be construed as friendly to Judaism, affirms Josephus' statement regarding the authorship of the Septuagint in his preface to The Book of Hebrew Questions.
@revoltingamerica Lol...sry but the jews in african and Ethiopea clearly prove you wrong...They have remained widley in seclusion from the rest of world from B.C... and guess what there holy book is the SEPTUAGINT...and guess what there book includes all the prophets and the 7 books that where removed at jamnia....whoops looks like you are dispoven!
StSimonMartyr typed: "Sanhedrin 106a . Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." I thought you were pro-Mary? You just contradicted your stand as a Roman Catholic. Oh, I get it. You are a RELIGIOUS TROLL.
@gtepp031387 In fact,(Christian scholar) Dr. F.F. Bruce, the preeminent professor of Biblical exegesis, keenly points out that, strictly speaking, the Septuagint deals only with the Pentateuch and not the whole Old Testament. Bruce writes, "The Jews might have gone on at a later time to authorize a standard text of the rest of the Septuagint, but . . lost interest in the Septuagint altogether.
@gtepp031387 With but few exceptions, every manuscript of the Septuagint which has come down to our day was copied and preserved in Christian, not Jewish, circles.". That's the Jewish perspective on their canon and "Christian" canon. They refer to such abomination as "Christians," because you so hardly fought to save your pride over men-like traditions and power within the Church. Yes, here, the "Christian" means Catholic and Orthodox.
@revoltingamerica Sry but the Septaugint has all 7 books that where removed at the council of Jamnia 70 A.D as well as the prophetic books(which is clear to anyone that is studied as the jews in Africa and Ethiopea to this day use the Septuagint)....The Septuaint was the first compilation of the full scripture before that all there was only seperated scrolls.
@gtepp031387 Stop trying to change the facts based on what your pope and bishops feed you. The long list of pope you have there is a bona-fide copy manufactured to shift the list of Roman Emperors to change and shift fitting that of pope's falsified linage. We, Christians, the true Christians, respect Jewish canon because of the fact that Jesus and his disciples did so. Still, for your petty pride, you try and picture Jews and Protestants as killers of Jesus Christ. Wow.
@revoltingamerica lol...the Popes list is clear and accurate and has soo much historical backup only a very silly person would attempt to state otherwise.....you do not respect the jewish cannon as you removed 7 books from it and accepted a council that rejected christ and the NT....The apostles used the Septuagint when quoting from the OT if you where real Christians I would think you would follow there example.
@revoltingamerica Sry but you are wrong, the apostles used and quted from the Septuagint, this is historical fact. The early Cristians used the Septuagint this is historical fact. The Jewish used the Septuaignt from 300 B.C.-70 A.D. this is historical fact...The jewish in Africa and Ethiopea still use the Septuagint to this day this is fact, and there Septuagint includes all the prophetic books and the 7 books you removed.
'The Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and have persecuted us, do not please God, and are adversaries to all men.' ~ I Thessalonians ii.14-16
St. Matthew "Christ shall be slain, and the people who shall deny Him shall not be His." ~ Daniel 9: 26
CRUCIFY IM, HIS BLOOD BE UPON US AND OUR CHILDREN!
Its pretty clear, the Jews killed Christ. And Protest-ants are their Useful Idiots.
@StSimonMartyr ..I think you mean Futurists, not Protestants. Protestants did not teach that the Jews are Gods' chosen people. Futurists like, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Jack Van Empe etc. etc. reject Protestant theology.
@gearzone2611 From what I have studied the early Christians also where very vocal about the changes made in the Jewish council of Jamnia to the scripture, there is much evidence that points to the Jamina text being messed with, and again even the Jews where not united when It came to the text that came out of this council.
@gtepp031387 No Christians evolves in the council of Jamnia, the Masoteric Texts and the Textus Receptus been long adopted and published already. I don't know this council of Jamnia, since the OT was been the books of the Hebrews and to the Rabbinic laws. The reason the Jews didn't recognized the books of the Septuagint, because it has a bad translations from the original tongues of the Hebrews. The Jews recognized the OT texts already, they called it the Hebrew Writings, and so on.
@gtepp031387 Exactly! So yes, they were all compiled in various cities in Alexandria, Egypt, and in Antioch, Syria. The Jewish Rabbinic priests had found that the translations were not good, so that's why they rejected the translation of the Septuagint. Even though the absurdities of the translation, still the books were still spread in the South/Egypt. This is why, the Masoretic Texts is the only sound preserved OT books, because it was discussed and disputed many times by scholars
@gearzone2611 Sry but the Septuagint was approved by the high priest around 300 B.C. and was complied by the top 70 teachers of Jewish law. It is the book that the apostles quote from nearly 300 times while writting the NT, the book that all early christians used. The Masoratic text is way way off, and the early quotes from the church fathers prove this very clearly.
@gtepp031387 The Septuagint was only written books of the Old Testaments into Greek tongues. Since from 300BC to 300AD, the entire periods were all quite familiar of speaking Greek. You said, "the Septuagint was approved by the high priests, compiled by 70 teachers of Jewish law," .. are both disputable, and debatable my friend. There's no way you can tell who wrote the Septuagint! The Apostles quoted their writings from the Masoteric Texts/OT Writings, are located in Jerusalem bud.
It seems that u don't know NOTHING about Christianity. Because NEVER EVER the hebrew text was that important for CHRISTIANS but the SEPTUAGINTA - the SEPTUAGINTA is the BIBLE of the CHURCH.
Also the Evangelists QUOTE THE SEPTUAGINTA - never or seldom the HEBREW TEXT.
There is NO HEBREW TEXT ANYMORE - because the hebrew TEXT WAS CORRUPTED. The Greek Orthodox Church from Jerusalem has translated the Septuaginta into hebrew - so that there is a also a true hebrew Bible
@adamantis4657 The Septuagint, was circling around in Alexandria, Egypt. This is not the hub of Christian doctrines. This is where all the high-minded teachers, believe they are quite intellectuals than the rest of the population. That's why, when it compares between the Masoteric Texts and the Septuagint. There's a huge differences when it comes to translations. What..? "The Greek Orthodox Church translated the Septuagint into Hebrew." Uhm Ok. I should stop the conversation. Tnx!
@gearzone2611 Guys, I suggest you to not talk to these people. All the efforts you spend on them will be for naught, as they will come up with the claim that Mary is the "Most Holy." Yet they deny their acts of elevating Mary's status to that of something divine.
The Bible states clearly Mary is 'BLESSED' And 'FULL OF GRACE'
It says that about no other women,
She is the MOTHER of GOD. Venerated as such. Not worshipped, venerated, look up the differences in those words.
Do u not show respect to the mother of the woman in your own life? Silly Protestant, heretics.
Jews allied with Protest-ants to Pass Roe V Wade in 1973 to Slaughter our unborn. Dr Bernard Nathanson, former Dir of NARAL wrote how they did it in 'CONFESSIONS OF AN X ABORTIONIST'
@StSimonMartyr The Bible clearly states Mary is a human who is highly favored one of the Lord, not full of grace.
She is the human mother of Jesus. Following your logic that she was sinless, then her parent, too, must have been sinless. If such reasoning is to be asserted even further, then no human in the history of the mankind would be a sinner. If you do not worship this person called Mary, why are you offended at my saying that she lacks divinity?
Show me Just One place, Anywhere, IN the Catholic Liturgy on a Sunday Mass, or any Mass, where Mary or anyone besides GOD and Jesus Christ, the Trinity, is worshipped.
Just one. Show it to me. Its not there, Hellbound heretic.
But I take it youve not read Revelations on what it has to say about praying to Saints either. The prayers being efficacious and what not. Oh well, Being not well read or studied isnt a crime, just heresy to spout nonsense and show your stupidity.
@StSimonMartyr Type, "Catholics worship Mary," on google, then click on "image" button and you will find yourself in a mine full of gold. If you are so confident in your ability to reason, why fling-off my opinion concerning your assumptions of Mary? Again, if Mary is assumed to have been sinless because she bore God in her, then by the same logic Mary's parent, too, must have been sinless along with the rest of the mankind.
@StSimonMartyr Paul said believers will differ in the ways of their worship and that is what the division of each denominations are for. The Bible also says do not defile ourselves by associating ourselves with the one who calls himself to be the brother in faith who is an idolator.
@StSimonMartyr You are in a pit of denial. If bowing down in front of a physically dead person's image out of an extreme affection towards that person isn't worship, then what is?
In the same way as a person might have a picture or photograph of a loved one in order to remind him or her of their friend or family member, so to do Catholics use statues as a reminder and a focus when praying to a saint, angel or God. In addition to the beautifying of our places of worship by the use of liturgical art, it serves a very practical purpose of reminding us. However, Catholics do not pray to the statues themselves – but rather to the people who are Presented BY Them.
@tilapiatinapa Why ask the intercession of others is Jesus christ not enough?....Did Jesus not command that you use the intercession of others?....Was john the apostles a heretic for asking things of the elders in heaven in the book of Rev?...was jesus a heretic for saying that the angles watch over children and report to the father(interceeding) what they see?
@StSimonMartyr Also, since the Holy Spirit is God and the body of believers are supposed to be his temple, I, along with other Christians, must be as special as Mary. Except for the fact that she gave birth to Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
@StSimonMartyr WTF do you mean by "Holy Spirit is Satan??" Yes, that is what I've said: the Holy Spirit is God. And so is Jesus and Father. We don't read KJV specifically, mind you. And dodging my points again, aren't you?
(Fox News) The mainstream media has all but ignored the recent Associated Press report that the 3 major insurance companies for Protestant Churches in America say they typically receive 260 reports each year of minors being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, staff, or other church-related relationships."
260 Protestant Incidents VS 9 in the Catholic Church!
But Prots are Jew friendly. US Kosher media is selective.
Vatican 2=a Hijacking BY Jews & Protestant heretics into Church doctrine.
THE PLOT AGAINST THE CHURCH written by High ranking Church clergy (Maurice Pinay-Online & free) warns the attending Vatican 2 Bishops, of what was to come) sure enough, everything Forecasted, came to pass.
Every Catholic Must read this book.
Vatican 2 was disasterous. Church attendence, Seminary enrollment, Priests leaving the Church, Divorce, Loss of Faith, The Pill etc.
You do not accept our last 5 popes as legitimate successors to the Holy See. So tell me, who does your enterprise have in the wings to assume the chair of St. Peter? Or are there several factions having candidates vying for the anti-Pope slot? You accuse our pope(s) of heresy which can never be proved. Sedevacantism is a failure.
There are and always will be perverts EVERYWHERE. THAT is one of the reasons why Christ died for the sins of man. So what's your point, aside from your "my religion is better than your religion" rhetoric?
There may not be anything in Roman Catholic liturgy that says Roman Catholics should worship Mary, but that's what Roman Catholics do. Tell the Roman Catholics in the Philippines that Mary shouldn't be worshipped especially during this coming Roman Catholic "holy week." I guarantee you will be skinned alive by Mary's devotees.
He who is seated at the right hand of God, the exulted position accorded to the Christ for His triumph on the cross, is the One who should be prayed to.
@gtepp031387 The very first founding fathers of Christians were Jews. "In Christ Jesus there is neither Jews nor Greek,..' read the entire chapters of Roman Chapter One. Not a single word the need to be Catholic buddy, it only talks about the salvation comes from Jesus Christ by believing Him. Nope, no mention of Peter there, nor the religion of catholic or the keeping seven sacraments. Oh yea, you might as well read the Roman Empire's religious influenced from Greeks, and Egypt!
@gearzone2611 As far as the first chapter of Romans not mentioning Peter or catholic so what I do not live by bits and piecies of the scripture but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD....You will find in scripture that those who reject the ones GOD ordained to be teachers of his people end up in a bad place.
@gtepp031387 The scriptures is the word of God. I thought you understood this already. Since you can't find the first Chapter in Romans like, "catholicism, papacy, sacraments, Mary, Vatican, Rome, etc.." in that Chapter, or I say the entire books of Romans. Then, I guess by adding the doctrines of Catholicism, is sure path to rejection of God's commandments, don't you think? Why don't you read it for yourself, since you quoted by yourself in the first chapter of the books of Romans.
"The Savior of the human race willed that a new creation and order should replace the old. Just as in the beginning he used virginal, stainless earth for clay out of which to fashion the first Adam, so again to effect his own incarnation he chose, out of all created nature, this utterly pure and stainless Virgin, in place as it were of the original earth."
from Sermon 1 on the Nativity of Mary, St. Andrew of Crete
The Roman Catholic church is the church that follows strange "gods" and not Christ. The Roman Catholic church is the church that does not have a clue about Christ. A church that claims to be "Christian" yet espouses the worship of Mary and the saints is a sham.
3.) Protestants have no clue about CHRIST - self leading Sects with "swimming pool" pastors. LOL
4.) ALL CHRISTIANS honor the Most Holy Theotokos and the SAINTS only the cursed heretics do not. But we do not care about Sectarians and Heretics - Protestants are not christians so ....
U and your protestan "brothers". Decepted and blinded uneducated people. Go and start to study the Holy Bible, the early church documents, the Apostolic Fathers, the Holy Church Fathers etc...
And look who is HERETIC and WHO IS AGAINST CHRIST and HIS TRUTH = PROTESTANTS the SECT or fornicators and ANTI-CHRISTIANS.
U are not better than the Jews that blamed CHRIST or the Muslims. NO - they even are better - because they also honor the Virgin Mary
You are the shameful, deceived, and blinded one. You still cling to the worship of Mary, and that makes you a practitioner of the pagan practice of "worshipping the mother." Paganism is an abomination to God.
Ooooh, I am condemned by the "holy" fathers. Really? YOUR "holy" fathers condemn people?! Typical Roman Catholic arrogance, claiming something that is Biblically God's right alone.
The Roman Catholic church is the church that follows strange "gods" and not Christ. The Roman Catholic church is the church that does not have a clue about Christ. A church that claims to be "Christian" yet espouses the worship of Mary and the saints is a sham.
The Roman Catholic church is the church that follows strange "gods" and not Christ. The Roman Catholic church is the church that does not have a clue about Christ. A church that claims to be "Christian" yet espouses the worship of Mary and the saints is a sham.
@TheChurchAuthentic Even if Peter is the rock in Matthew 16:18, this is meaningless in giving the Roman Catholic Church any authority. Scripture nowhere records Peter being in Rome. Scripture nowhere describes Peter as being supreme over the other apostles. The New Testament does not describe Peter as being the “all authoritative leader” of the early Christian church.
@TheChurchAuthentic Hey, it's been a while since we last talked, hasn't it? I think this has become a form of ritual in place of usual greetings like "hi," or "how've you been?" Adamantis got off of my back for the first time ever, and I think that's a good sign. I hope he doesn't try to drop off his loads off on me again. Otherwise, he should expect a full-front war between him and I.
'bout a week. You were busy with my OE brother and I didn't want to bud in or I just didn't have anything to say. Actually I saw a great deal of posting here from you both but I read very little. The page looked dormant so I thought I would proclaim some truth.
@TheChurchAuthentic The mouth that which speaks of path for salvation other than Jesus Christ alone is not in communion with Him and any of you who are not with him is against him. Just as there is one God, Jesus Christ, who is both fully God and man, is one mediator between God and men.
@adamantis4657 That's your flawed opinion, which is based on the notion that Orthodox teachings are absolute. None, actually. All of those were, once again, coming from your flawed opinions and you still fail to understand the basic fact that you aren't supposed to bring up what you are trying to prove as evidences for your claims. You are against Jesus for you are not in him. Such claims about the supposed anathemas shall not prevail against the bond between Jesus and I. You do not know Jesus.
Orthodox and Catholic are united by the seven Mysteries (Sacraments), theology, The Divine Liturgy (the Mass), veneration of Holy Theotokos (the Blessed Virgin Mary), so much so that Orthodox are admitted to Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. The Protestant sectarians, on the other hand, reject all of this and rely on a book they stole from Christ's Holy Church, struggling to interpret it with human understanding.
@TheChurchAuthentic Although the concepts and processes of such practices may be shared between the Catholicism and Orthodoxy, the fact still remains that the means of carrying out such rituals differ from Catholicism to Orthodoxy; i.e. Catholics believe that sacrements are effective on the account that the priest who leads Eucharist is there as a stead of Christ, where as Orthodox believe the elements of their ritual become grace-filled by the Holy Spirit.
At the epiclesis, the priest invokes the Holy Spirit to come down and make these gifts of bread and wine the Body and Blood of Christ for us. There is no difference.
@TheChurchAuthentic The two different emphasis of the ritual; elements and priest, is what disallows the union between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Orthodox believe that the Holy Spirit has granted its grace over the elements that are to be used throughout their ritual, where as Catholics believe that because priest is there in stead of Christ, that fact alone more than justifies the "holiness" of their practices.
Driving a wedge between Catholicism and Orthodoxy does not impress me. The minor difference in emphasis and understanding pales in comparison to the great gulf between Protestantism and Orthodoxy or Catholicism. You have stripped the altars.
@TheChurchAuthentic The emphasis I've pointed out in my last post shows the different meanings for each branches of Christianity. It's like giving two different reasons for liking something; Don likes an apple for its sour flavor, where as Jared is fond of it because of its juiciness. Either person would stop having an apple as their favorite fruit, if an apple were to lose an aspect of what makes it so charming to them.
Your conclusion is flawed. The preferences are not mutually exclusive. Blessed John Paul the Great spoke of the Church of the East as the other lung of the Church. There is much the Church of West can learn from the East and vice versa.
@TheChurchAuthentic You do realize that the person whose name you are boasting of is none other than the pope who had started the gathering of world religions into Vatican and went on to state that the world must come into a single understanding that there must be a unification between men, right? His successor did pretty much the same, which, to me, was a blatant act. The Bible says keep away those who are against Jesus, yet he covers it up with the Holy Spirit guiding him.
Your complaint is sour grapes. The Holy Father expressed the desire to unite the world in Christ. This is also the mind of Christ and his Blessed Mother Mary. Who would you exclude from the family of God? Your religion isn't big enough for God.
@TheChurchAuthentic Anyone who is not with him is against him. They were and are still aware of the existence of God and full-well knows of Christian-faith, yet they continue to reject God. Our Father warned us about the forecoming of a being who would wish to gather the world and beneath his feet. Mary is a human who is obedient to God and her mind is irrelevant to our cause. Those who slander in God's name shall have their tongue turn against them.
Catholics want to gather all into Christ. Mary wants the same. Because of her humility, he who is mighty has done great things for her, beginning with her Immaculate Conception. Her mind is the mind of Christ and is certainly relevant to the advocacy of her children (Mother of Jesus, Jesus our brother, Mary our mother).
@TheChurchAuthentic Mary was highly favored one of the Lord and for that, she was given the privilege of giving birth to the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Despite his true status, Jesus Christ lowered himself down to that of a form of his servants. Mary's mind and body withered as a human and faced physical death in her due time. Jesus Christ was transfigured after his resurrection and sat on the right hand of God. Any believer's mother is your mother, and her family, your family.
When her earthly life was over, the Mother of God was assumed into heaven, body and soul, participating in the resurrection of her divine Son before any of us. Mary was given this privilege among others. She stands at the right hand of Christ in his majestic kingdom. She is royalty and intercedes for her children and by extension, for all of humanity.
@TheChurchAuthentic That's a corrupt assumption made in the light of Mary's supposed divinity. Instead of believing in God's wonders and his majestic powers, you incorrectly assume that the second person of the Trinity can be tainted by the likes of a human's sins. Denying God's omnipotence, you believe that Mary had to be a sinless person for the Son for him to dwell in her body.
You know Catholics and Orthodox believe that Mary is human, but you persist in lying about what we believe. That doesn't make it true, just your wishful thinking and outright denial. We believe that God highly favored Mary and selected her to be his Mother. Can God choose his own mother? Is anything too hard for the Lord?
@TheChurchAuthentic That's because the Bible tells us not to make images of anything or anyone on Earth, Heaven, and etc. for the purpose of worship, which is what extreme veneration means. God tells us he is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He existed, exists, and will exist forever. His reincarnation and human mother do not justify the assumption of Mary. So, why bother telling me all this again?
Have we not discussed about Images? Have I not shown through the Bible, the Holy Fathers, the Apostolic Tradition that GOD EVEN ORDERED to make Images? Why not u post the same nonsense after I have proven u wrong?
Again wrong: Have I not explained that since apostolic times christains believed that SHE MUST HAVE HAD a special death. When even Eljah, Henoch and others had such.
Why? Do u think Henoch is higher than the Mother of God?
@adamantis4657 Yeah and I've told you that those Cherubims were constructed in the House of the Lord for the purpose of decoration and those "holy statues" were viewed as God's footstool. Do you, in all honesty, believe Jews would honor God's footstool? Mary was a human and died as a human. She was a human who was used for the purpose of God. She was a human mother of Jesus, who had taken on the form of a servant when, in fact, he is the second person of Trinity.
Yes, of course. They honored all HOLY OBJECTS of the Temple, the Holy Arc, even the Temple was honored. Even until this day they honor the Wall of the Temple with prayers and etc..
They honored the Thora, the prayer ropes, etc..EVERYTHING - they even prostrated before the ARC of GOD. Yes, they honored them
@adamantis4657 They only did that once they knew God's presence had filled the Temple of God. Other than such occasions and as opposed to your kind, they restrained themselves from giving their worship to meaningless images.
U asked me if the Jews venerated the FOOTSTOOL of GOD and I said yes. Even the Mountain where God appeared was venerated, even the burning bush - today the Greek Orthodox Monastery of St. Cathrine enshrines the Bush where God appeared - also many Muslims and Jews go there to venerated this Holy Place.
So yes - the Israelits VENREATED THESE OBJECTS - because these Objects where sanctified by Gods presence
@adamantis4657 There's a reason why they had fallen out of God's favor and why the attention had shifted from them to all of us. And they do so, only because they think that they each are in favor of God.
Yes, because they SACRIFICED everything for CHRIST. They even rejected their families, they lived in caves with wild animals like St. Jerome who was reading the Bible in hebrew UNCEASINGLY. Or like St. Athanasios who fighted until death for the Glory of CHRIST. Or all the Martyrs who gave their life and endured; persectution, torture, for CHRIST.
Or St. Alexander of Alexandria who fasted so much that the sun shone throug his stomache. Of course they were bad
@adamantis4657 All for naught, yes. And when they rose to power during the era of Constantine, they twisted the wisdom for their petty pride in making the religion and the church, not the truth itself. In defense of their newfound wealth and position, they persecuted/burnt off any evidence as well as people who were reading the Bible to others as they were heretics. They were the heroes of old, not those who were blinded by the god of this world.
Because as it can be seen from your posts: WE ARE RIGHT. U deny Her to be THEOTOKOS, u deny Her to have a blessd death, u deny Her - to be the true Mother of CHRIST GOD - u deny her to be our intercessor, u deny Her to be the Temple of God, to be His Holy Throne, to be GRACEFILLED.
She was not higly favoured - why are u so stubborn? When I explained that KE-CHARITOMENI means FULL OF GRACE - why do u deny truth?
@adamantis4657 This is what you are saying: "Okay, man. Suppose Allah is not your God. But we believe in Jesus Christ and that he existed. Muhammad gave us our knowledge from the holy angel of Allah. So, I think we are not fornicating any facts here, just the truth." Any resemblence? The Bible says spread the truth of the Lord like a gentle dove. Even your fellow brothers in faith disagree with you about how you act in a debate. Doesn't that tell you something in particular?
@adamantis4657 And I am very much pleased at the fact that you are that much aware of their faith. Now all you need to do is to focus and picture a striking resemblence between their and your faith.
1.) Orthodox can not be compared to Islam - because we do not procclaim New Prophets with New Messages or New books. I was speaking to u about the Holy Bible and the Holy Fathers the authors of the Bible.
2.) As I told u once - Protestantism is very very similar to Islam: they destroy Icons, they do not confess the Virgin Mary to be Mother of God, they deny the Church, et
3.) This is horrible even to compare when we suffered so horrible from islam
@adamantis4657 1) Apocrypha; different editions of canon for RCC and Orthodoxy, vision of Mary who proclaimed herself to be the way to life and the support of rosaries, and the set-up for images.
2) Our actions serve different purposes.
3) So the "Holy Crusade," and how did that turn out again?
1.) Because those BOOKS always have been there. Because the BIBLE of the CHURCH is the SEPTUAGINTA and not the HEBREW BIBLE of MASORETS - who are the enemy of CHRIST
2.) Now instead of posting FACT u start again to Blaspheme. The Most Holy Theotokos APPEARED SEVERAL TIMES TO THE APOSTLES - as we know Tradition.
3.) Because ALL CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE and we know it through Tradition. ALL AGREE
4) Even the Ebonites(a Christian/jewish sect) who claimed acceptance to the Jamnia council, whent behind the back of the Jamnia jews and hid the 7 books removed at the council in the dea sea, trying to preserve them...of course most of there text is screwed up and forged but it shows that even the Jamnia jews where at odds with each other.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
1) Out of 350 quotes of the OT by the apostles over 300 of them where from the Septuagint.
2) The Didache(also know as the doctrin of the apostles, 1st century writting) places the Septuagint as the holy version of the church.
3) The Septuagint is still used by the Africa, Ethiopea, and Alexandrian jews...the Ethiopea and African jews where in seclusion from the rest of the jews from before Christ and there Septuagint has all prophetic books as well as the 7 books removed at Jamnia.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 ...Origen and his master Clement wrote the Septuigent, it goes back no further than them. They concocted the story of "72 Jewish scholars" as well. Why did they do that? Alexandria was the lead school for Gnosticism and they wanted people to think that Jesus read this document, which is not true. Jesus read from the Hebrew, not a Greek translation fabed up by gnostics. All the early promoters of the LXX, were Gnostics. It is not a BC document, far from it.
vachief 1 day ago
@vachief "Origen and his master Clement wrote the Septuigent, it goes back no further than them." Intresting that they have Septuagint fragments that date to 2nd century B.C....liar liar pants on fire!
gtepp031387 5 hours ago
@vachief "All the early promoters of the LXX, were Gnostics. "
Guess that includes the apostles as well as they quoted from the LXX over 300 times...please stop talking you do not have a clue....The MT that the KJV used to translate from dates only to the 8th century A.D....how funny you are!
gtepp031387 5 hours ago
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gtepp031387 2 days ago
The true church is Christianity, which is follower of Christ. Plain and simple. Not all the fluff and misleading traditions of other religions and the catholic church.
JesusDiedforMe01 4 days ago
@gtepp031387 The problem was, they were all compiled under the orders of Rome. Various books were spread in the Alexandria and Antioch. The first compilation of the Books from the Roman/pagan empire were done under the Council of Nicea, after the Edict of Milan. Most of Constantine scholars got their books from Egypt, authored by Origen which the Greek translation of the Old Testaments, the Septuagint. That's why there are books of Apocrypha, that never found in the Masoteric Texts!
gearzone2611 1 week ago
@gearzone2611 uhmm the Septuagint was complied in 300 B.C. Origen was not alive for another 500 years, don't know where your getting this stuff but it is off. In the three apostolic fathers (Ignatius, Clement, Polycarp) nearly all 7 books that you removed in 1630 are quoted from. Get yourself a KJV 1611 and see that you once included all 7 books and later removed them in 1630.
gtepp031387 6 days ago
@gtepp031387 I said the Septuagint was compiled already before Origen. But the Septuagint was Not recognized by the Jewish priests. Origen was one of the author and teacher in Alexandria, Egypt. You might as well understand, Egypt is Not the central hub of Christianity. Ignatius, Clement, Polycarp, please explain. Are you talking about the Apocrypha, I don't get your point here. Mind explaining it. I don't get where you heading. I'm a bit confused about your statements here.
gearzone2611 5 days ago
@gearzone2611: Of course the Septuaginta was RECOGNIZED BY the JEWISH PRIESTS. The problem was that this bible became so popular in christianity that the Jews LATER rejected this Bible - because they REJECTED CHRIST and CHRSITIANITY.
I am a bit confused by your silly statements.
adamantis4657 5 days ago
@adamantis4657 "The Septuagint was recognized by the Jewish priests." Well, I don't know about that. Why would they recognized a Greek version, which it has an utterly translated badly. When in fact, the Jewish priests were actually holding and preserving the very Hebrew Writings. The Septuagint, wasn't accepted by the Jewish communities and in the Christian early records. Much of the writings by the disciples came from the Hebrew Writings, and Not in Greek version/the Septuagint.
gearzone2611 3 days ago
@gearzone2611 Actually the Septuagint was complied and accepted by the Jews. It was the first time the intire scripture was complied into one book. It was put together by order of the Jewish high priest, who assembled the top 70 teachers of the law and had them tranlsate the text. They where locked into seperat rooms two by two and upon finishing all copies matched word for word.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gearzone2611 The Septuagint was reconized by Jewish priests from the years 300 B.C. - 70 A.D....it was the Jewish high priest who gathered the top 70 teachers of the LAW and sent them to the king....sry but you need to study up.
gtepp031387 4 days ago
@gtepp031387 Here is the issues buddy. The Septuagint was translated by unknown scholars, whatever who they are. Much of the received texts of the Greek translation of the Septuagint were found, and handed in the Alexandria, Egypt. When in fact, the Hebrew Old Testament Texts, are actually in Israel, not in Egypt. Since Greek was the common carriage of language. This is the reason why, there was version of Greek in the Hebrew Writings. Scholars must study more on the book of LXX.
gearzone2611 3 days ago
@gearzone2611 The Hebrew old test has no original in existance, the Septuagint does. The apostles quoted from the Septuagint over 300 times, the only writter that used the Hebrew was matthew as he originally wrote his gople in Aramaic.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gearzone2611 My point in Ignagtius, Clement, and Polycarp, is they are the direct sucessores of the apostles, and it is clear from there writtings which book they are using and that is the Septuagint. They clearly rejected the council of Jamnia and follwed the direction of the apostles.
gtepp031387 4 days ago
@gtepp031387 You said, "direct succesors of the apostles,..." This statement has no historical records, nor anything that supports in the writings of the manuscripts. By just reading the entirety of the New Testaments, it has no records that the 12 Apostles has a records of successors. This is where, the unbiblical teachings of the Roman Catholicism, that were cultivated through changing times. The Revelation is the last book of the Bible. The Council of Jamnia? I dont see any link.
gearzone2611 3 days ago
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gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387: The SEPTUAGINTA is the BIBLE of the CHURCH - the Apostles ALWAYS QUOTED FROM THAT BIBLE - this can be proven.
The Septuaginta always included the Deutercanonical books - NOT CALLED APOCRYPHA because Apocrypha are something else.
The Masorectic text is FORBIDDEN and CORRUPTED as it is well known - this text is ANTI-CHRISTIAN.
adamantis4657 5 days ago
@gearzone2611 By the way Masoteric text that we have today is not the same as the original that was kept in the Jewish high temple, even the Jews realized the forgery at the council of Jamnia and to this day the Jews in Ethiopea and Africa hold to the Septuagint and not the falsified scripture that came from the Jewish council of Jamnia that rejected Christ and the apostles as well as the NT.
gtepp031387 6 days ago
@gtepp031387 The Masoteric Texts is the original Hebrew Old Testaments, that was handed down by the Levites priests. Then autograph many times by the Levites. What council of Jamnia? Buddy, the Levites priests were handling and preserving the books of the OT. The Old Testaments was been translated into Greek, Latin, Chinese, and so on, so are the books of the New Testaments. I do not get your saying! The O.T. has been translated many times, either in M.Texts and Alexandrian version!
gearzone2611 5 days ago
@gearzone2611: The HEBREW TEXT is CORRUPTED!
It is not the ORIGINAL TEXT - many scholars have proven this. This TEXT WAS CORRUPTED BY THE JEWS - they do not have the TRUE TEXT anymore.
That is why Orthodox Scholars are translating the GREEK TEXT INTO HEBREW again - so that the Hebrews can read the TRUE BIBLE.
adamantis4657 5 days ago
@adamantis4657 "The Hebrew Texts was corrupted." Atleast, tell us why it was corrupt. By saying, "...it is no the Original Text." Bud, every scholars and Christians knows that all that scriptures that we all received are, autographs, not an Original Texts anymore. The Original Writings, were all gone. But the Masoteric Texts provided enough supports and evidence, that it was an Original Copies from the Original Writings. Who are the Orthodox Scholars anyways? This one's new to me.
gearzone2611 3 days ago
@gearzone2611 Direct apostolic sucessores that is right. Clement is mentioned in the bible as a co-worker of the apostles who's name is in the book of life. The matter is that without the historical records outside of what became the bible, we would not have a bible.The bible did't drop from the sky but was put together using tradition that largley relied on the same tradition that stated who the apostolic sucessores where.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
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@gearzone2611 Direct apostolic sucessores that is right. Clement is mentioned in the bible as a co-worker of the apostles who's name is in the book of life. The matter is that without the historical records outside of what became the bible, we would not have a bible.The bible did't drop from the sky but was put together using tradition that largley relied on the same tradition that stated who the apostolic sucessores where.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gearzone2611 The original masoteric text was on a bunch of scrolls held in the temple, which was utterly destroyed in 70 A.D. The jews then called a council to try to figure out what to do(Jamnia) they did not have the original scrolls anymore as they where destoyed along with the temple, they put together a fake text that was rejected even by the Jewish people, and the Christians opposed it from the first bell.
gtepp031387 4 days ago
@gtepp031387 Exactly! Scholars discovered that the Masoteric Texts has more precised copies and wordings. I don't know why, your telling this that "...is not the same as the original that was kept in the Jewish high temple..." The problem is, so are the copies of the New Testaments. They are not the original. They are autographs from the Original writings. I do not know why, you keep pursuing the issues of the Council of Jamnia, I had no clue. As long, they keep publishin the Bible.
gearzone2611 3 days ago
@gearzone2611 No the masoteric text is not correct what are the scholars comparing to?....the dead sea scrolls?....those came from a group know as the Ebonites and guess what they accepted the council of jaminia so of course they would have it the same way. We have copies of the some of the NT that date to the mid 1st century so basically original or second copy..almost everything you say is way off please give me some sources so i can look in at where your getting this stuff.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gearzone2611 What copy of original Hebrew do you have that is older then the Septuagint....There are none that exist...the septuagint is the oldest copy of the OT period, and is the most accurate....the apostles used it, probley from the guidance of Christ. The apostolic sucessores and all the early christians used and quoted from it.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 Hebrew Bible canon closed approximately 423 BCE during the time of Ezra/ Nehemiah "Jamnia" or Yavneh in Hebrew, was the place of a council of Jewish sages who met in 90 CE. They sought to preserve the Jews as a people while in exile and without the centrality of the Temple.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
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gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 Their primary tasks were to set up schools, designate sages, Among their tasks was to affirm that any books attached to the Tanakh of the Hellenized versions of scripture that were being spread were not claimed to be part of the Tanakh.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 Some Christian apologist scholars often try to claim that this was when the Jewish Bible's canon was FORMED in response to Christianity, ignoring that their early Christian writings by the early Church Fathers refer to the Jewish scriptures as a formed work prior to the writing of their New Testament!
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 The council of these earliest rabbis were concerned that without the centrality of the Temple and the dispersion of Jews, the Hellenist apologists and Romans would corrupt the Tanakh by altering it through mistranslation into Greek and adding pagan precepts. There is no doubt that all the texts admitted into the Prophets and Writings were already a part of the Tanakh long before Yavneh.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 Some of the texts that Judaism never considered as a part of Jewish scripture were early apologetic attempts to tie in Christian dogma to the Tanakh. Some texts were pre-Christian attempts to Hellenize Judaism. Both the Greek and Roman conquerers tried to assimilate the Jewish people out of existence through such methods. The texts known as Pseudepigrapha were largely written between 200 BCE and 100 CE and included great amounts of Greek philosophy.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 The Apocrypha (Greek, "hidden books") are Jewish books not considered part of the Holy Scriptures of Judaism but were written largely by Hellenized Jews during a period of Greek occupation and were attempts to syncrtize the conflicting belief systems. Pseudepigrapha (Greek, "falsely attributed") was given to Jewish writings, which were attributed to authors who did not actually write them..
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 The rest of Tanakh was translated from the Hebrew to the Greek over the course of about 300 years and scholars cannot tell who or when exactly any of them were translated. Yet the common name of Septuagint is now generally applied to the whole Greek translation.**The Greek Septuagint called the Old Testament is not a Jewish document, but rather a Christian one.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@revoltingamerica The Septuagint was compiled before Christainity even came about, so you are just spouting nonsence. The Jewish high priest appoved of the Septuagint and authorized the translation of the text.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 The original Septuagint, created 2,200 years ago by 72 Jewish translators, was a Greek translation of the Five Books of Moses alone. It therefore did not contain prophetic Books of the Bible such as Isaiah.The Septuagint as we have it today, which includes the Prophets and Writings as well, is a product of the church, not the Jewish people.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@revoltingamerica uhmm sry again but the Septaugint has all the prophetic books, the apostles quote from the greek version of the prophets nearly 300 times, they rarly quoted from the five books of Mosses...so clearly you are liying, as it is very clear that the prophetic books where also included in the Greek translation...any other lies?
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 In fact, the Septuagint remains the official Old Testament of the Greek Orthodox Church, and the manuscripts that consist of our Septuagint today date to the third century C.E. The fact that additional books known as the Apocrypha, which are uniquely sacred to the Roman Catholic and Orthodox Church, are found in the Septuagint should raise a red flag to those inquiring into the Jewishness of the Septuagint.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@revoltingamerica uhmm the church fathers specifically the apostolic fathers(Clement, Ignatius, Polycarp) quote from nearly all 7 before the close of the 2nd century so your 3rd century nonsence is clearly disproven....care to lie anymore?
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 The fact that the original Septuagint translated by Jewish scribes more than 22 centuries ago was only of the Pentateuch and not of prophetic books of the Bible such as Isaiah is confirmed by countless sources including the ancient Letter of Aristeas, which is the earliest attestation to the existence of the Septuagint.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 The Talmud also states this explicitly in Tractate Megillah (9a), and Josephus as well affirms that the Septuagint was a translation only of the Law of Moses in his preface to Antiquities of the Jews. Moreover, Jerome, a church father and Bible translator who could hardly be construed as friendly to Judaism, affirms Josephus' statement regarding the authorship of the Septuagint in his preface to The Book of Hebrew Questions.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@revoltingamerica Lol...sry but the jews in african and Ethiopea clearly prove you wrong...They have remained widley in seclusion from the rest of world from B.C... and guess what there holy book is the SEPTUAGINT...and guess what there book includes all the prophets and the 7 books that where removed at jamnia....whoops looks like you are dispoven!
gtepp031387 2 days ago
Jewish TALMUD:
Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.
Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.
Sanhedrin 106a . Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters."
Gittin 57a. Jesus is in Hell, being boiled in "hot excrement."
StSimonMartyr 1 day ago
@StSimonMartyr
StSimonMartyr typed: "Sanhedrin 106a . Jesus' mother was a whore: "She who was the descendant of princes and governors played the harlot with carpenters." I thought you were pro-Mary? You just contradicted your stand as a Roman Catholic. Oh, I get it. You are a RELIGIOUS TROLL.
tilapiatinapa 1 day ago
@gtepp031387 In fact,(Christian scholar) Dr. F.F. Bruce, the preeminent professor of Biblical exegesis, keenly points out that, strictly speaking, the Septuagint deals only with the Pentateuch and not the whole Old Testament. Bruce writes, "The Jews might have gone on at a later time to authorize a standard text of the rest of the Septuagint, but . . lost interest in the Septuagint altogether.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 With but few exceptions, every manuscript of the Septuagint which has come down to our day was copied and preserved in Christian, not Jewish, circles.". That's the Jewish perspective on their canon and "Christian" canon. They refer to such abomination as "Christians," because you so hardly fought to save your pride over men-like traditions and power within the Church. Yes, here, the "Christian" means Catholic and Orthodox.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
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@revoltingamerica Sry but the Septaugint has all 7 books that where removed at the council of Jamnia 70 A.D as well as the prophetic books(which is clear to anyone that is studied as the jews in Africa and Ethiopea to this day use the Septuagint)....The Septuaint was the first compilation of the full scripture before that all there was only seperated scrolls.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@gtepp031387 Stop trying to change the facts based on what your pope and bishops feed you. The long list of pope you have there is a bona-fide copy manufactured to shift the list of Roman Emperors to change and shift fitting that of pope's falsified linage. We, Christians, the true Christians, respect Jewish canon because of the fact that Jesus and his disciples did so. Still, for your petty pride, you try and picture Jews and Protestants as killers of Jesus Christ. Wow.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@revoltingamerica lol...the Popes list is clear and accurate and has soo much historical backup only a very silly person would attempt to state otherwise.....you do not respect the jewish cannon as you removed 7 books from it and accepted a council that rejected christ and the NT....The apostles used the Septuagint when quoting from the OT if you where real Christians I would think you would follow there example.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
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@revoltingamerica Sry but you are wrong, the apostles used and quted from the Septuagint, this is historical fact. The early Cristians used the Septuagint this is historical fact. The Jewish used the Septuaignt from 300 B.C.-70 A.D. this is historical fact...The jewish in Africa and Ethiopea still use the Septuagint to this day this is fact, and there Septuagint includes all the prophetic books and the 7 books you removed.
gtepp031387 2 days ago
@revoltingamerica any other lies for me to disprove?
gtepp031387 2 days ago
'The Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and have persecuted us, do not please God, and are adversaries to all men.' ~ I Thessalonians ii.14-16
St. Matthew "Christ shall be slain, and the people who shall deny Him shall not be His." ~ Daniel 9: 26
CRUCIFY IM, HIS BLOOD BE UPON US AND OUR CHILDREN!
Its pretty clear, the Jews killed Christ. And Protest-ants are their Useful Idiots.
StSimonMartyr 1 day ago
@StSimonMartyr
You say "useful idiots." Is that how you wish to portray the "greatness" of your church, by calling people names?
tilapiatinapa 1 day ago
@StSimonMartyr ..I think you mean Futurists, not Protestants. Protestants did not teach that the Jews are Gods' chosen people. Futurists like, John Hagee, Pat Robertson, Jack Van Empe etc. etc. reject Protestant theology.
vachief 1 day ago
Martin Luther taught and believed that Jews were God's Chosen People..a Heresy.
Jews Condemned Christ to a brutal death (CRUCIFY HIM, HIS BLOOD BE UPON US AND OUR CHILDREN!), and blaspheme him to this day.
Calvin (nee Cohen) was himself a Jew.
Protest-ants are heretics.
Now 35,000 Competing Sects, None can agree on anything. Splinter and Wither from the vine.
StSimonMartyr 12 hours ago
@StSimonMartyr ...No he didn't. Luther knew who Gods chosen people were, but I'm not a Lutheran.
...The Jews thought Jesus was a heritic...that is why they killed him. Romans have a history of doing the same thing.
...Calvin was a Jesuit, not a Protestant, that is why the Catholic Encyclopedia reveres him.
vachief 11 hours ago
@gearzone2611 From what I have studied the early Christians also where very vocal about the changes made in the Jewish council of Jamnia to the scripture, there is much evidence that points to the Jamina text being messed with, and again even the Jews where not united when It came to the text that came out of this council.
gtepp031387 6 days ago
@gtepp031387 No Christians evolves in the council of Jamnia, the Masoteric Texts and the Textus Receptus been long adopted and published already. I don't know this council of Jamnia, since the OT was been the books of the Hebrews and to the Rabbinic laws. The reason the Jews didn't recognized the books of the Septuagint, because it has a bad translations from the original tongues of the Hebrews. The Jews recognized the OT texts already, they called it the Hebrew Writings, and so on.
gearzone2611 5 days ago
@gtepp031387 Exactly! So yes, they were all compiled in various cities in Alexandria, Egypt, and in Antioch, Syria. The Jewish Rabbinic priests had found that the translations were not good, so that's why they rejected the translation of the Septuagint. Even though the absurdities of the translation, still the books were still spread in the South/Egypt. This is why, the Masoretic Texts is the only sound preserved OT books, because it was discussed and disputed many times by scholars
gearzone2611 1 week ago
@gearzone2611 Sry but the Septuagint was approved by the high priest around 300 B.C. and was complied by the top 70 teachers of Jewish law. It is the book that the apostles quote from nearly 300 times while writting the NT, the book that all early christians used. The Masoratic text is way way off, and the early quotes from the church fathers prove this very clearly.
gtepp031387 6 days ago
@gtepp031387 The Septuagint was only written books of the Old Testaments into Greek tongues. Since from 300BC to 300AD, the entire periods were all quite familiar of speaking Greek. You said, "the Septuagint was approved by the high priests, compiled by 70 teachers of Jewish law," .. are both disputable, and debatable my friend. There's no way you can tell who wrote the Septuagint! The Apostles quoted their writings from the Masoteric Texts/OT Writings, are located in Jerusalem bud.
gearzone2611 5 days ago
@gearzone2611: WRONG
The APOSTLES ALWAYS QUOTED THE SEPTUAGINTA - this can be proven - and it is well known. They do not quote the hebrew TEXT but the GREEK TEXT.
U are wrong!
adamantis4657 5 days ago
@gearzone2611: WRONG
It seems that u don't know NOTHING about Christianity. Because NEVER EVER the hebrew text was that important for CHRISTIANS but the SEPTUAGINTA - the SEPTUAGINTA is the BIBLE of the CHURCH.
Also the Evangelists QUOTE THE SEPTUAGINTA - never or seldom the HEBREW TEXT.
There is NO HEBREW TEXT ANYMORE - because the hebrew TEXT WAS CORRUPTED. The Greek Orthodox Church from Jerusalem has translated the Septuaginta into hebrew - so that there is a also a true hebrew Bible
adamantis4657 5 days ago
@adamantis4657 The Septuagint, was circling around in Alexandria, Egypt. This is not the hub of Christian doctrines. This is where all the high-minded teachers, believe they are quite intellectuals than the rest of the population. That's why, when it compares between the Masoteric Texts and the Septuagint. There's a huge differences when it comes to translations. What..? "The Greek Orthodox Church translated the Septuagint into Hebrew." Uhm Ok. I should stop the conversation. Tnx!
gearzone2611 3 days ago
@gearzone2611 Guys, I suggest you to not talk to these people. All the efforts you spend on them will be for naught, as they will come up with the claim that Mary is the "Most Holy." Yet they deny their acts of elevating Mary's status to that of something divine.
revoltingamerica 3 days ago
The Bible states clearly Mary is 'BLESSED' And 'FULL OF GRACE'
It says that about no other women,
She is the MOTHER of GOD. Venerated as such. Not worshipped, venerated, look up the differences in those words.
Do u not show respect to the mother of the woman in your own life? Silly Protestant, heretics.
Jews allied with Protest-ants to Pass Roe V Wade in 1973 to Slaughter our unborn. Dr Bernard Nathanson, former Dir of NARAL wrote how they did it in 'CONFESSIONS OF AN X ABORTIONIST'
StSimonMartyr 3 days ago
@StSimonMartyr The Bible clearly states Mary is a human who is highly favored one of the Lord, not full of grace.
She is the human mother of Jesus. Following your logic that she was sinless, then her parent, too, must have been sinless. If such reasoning is to be asserted even further, then no human in the history of the mankind would be a sinner. If you do not worship this person called Mary, why are you offended at my saying that she lacks divinity?
revoltingamerica 3 days ago
Show me Just One place, Anywhere, IN the Catholic Liturgy on a Sunday Mass, or any Mass, where Mary or anyone besides GOD and Jesus Christ, the Trinity, is worshipped.
Just one. Show it to me. Its not there, Hellbound heretic.
But I take it youve not read Revelations on what it has to say about praying to Saints either. The prayers being efficacious and what not. Oh well, Being not well read or studied isnt a crime, just heresy to spout nonsense and show your stupidity.
StSimonMartyr 2 days ago
@StSimonMartyr Type, "Catholics worship Mary," on google, then click on "image" button and you will find yourself in a mine full of gold. If you are so confident in your ability to reason, why fling-off my opinion concerning your assumptions of Mary? Again, if Mary is assumed to have been sinless because she bore God in her, then by the same logic Mary's parent, too, must have been sinless along with the rest of the mankind.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
Not what I asked or requested, Protest-ant heretic.
Ill try again. Show me one place in the Catholic Liturgy, at sunday Mass, where Catholics worship Mary..
You cant, it doesnt exist. You are flawed, so are your beliefs.
Protest-ants now have 35,000 Competing Sects, none can agree on anything, its your legacy. Splintering and withering, falling further into heresy.
Englands Reformation wasnt over Faith but King Henry to DIVORCE!
We Fled ENGlAND to escape persecution FROM Protestants!
StSimonMartyr 2 days ago
@StSimonMartyr Paul said believers will differ in the ways of their worship and that is what the division of each denominations are for. The Bible also says do not defile ourselves by associating ourselves with the one who calls himself to be the brother in faith who is an idolator.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@StSimonMartyr You are in a pit of denial. If bowing down in front of a physically dead person's image out of an extreme affection towards that person isn't worship, then what is?
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
In the same way as a person might have a picture or photograph of a loved one in order to remind him or her of their friend or family member, so to do Catholics use statues as a reminder and a focus when praying to a saint, angel or God. In addition to the beautifying of our places of worship by the use of liturgical art, it serves a very practical purpose of reminding us. However, Catholics do not pray to the statues themselves – but rather to the people who are Presented BY Them.
StSimonMartyr 1 day ago
@StSimonMartyr
Why pray to the people represented by the graven images? Is Jesus Christ not enough? God thinks He is.
tilapiatinapa 1 day ago
@tilapiatinapa Why ask the intercession of others is Jesus christ not enough?....Did Jesus not command that you use the intercession of others?....Was john the apostles a heretic for asking things of the elders in heaven in the book of Rev?...was jesus a heretic for saying that the angles watch over children and report to the father(interceeding) what they see?
gtepp031387 5 hours ago
@tilapiatinapa Why ask those in heaven to praise and bless the LORD as in Psalms 103 and 148?.....is this heresy?
gtepp031387 5 hours ago
@StSimonMartyr Also, since the Holy Spirit is God and the body of believers are supposed to be his temple, I, along with other Christians, must be as special as Mary. Except for the fact that she gave birth to Jesus, our Lord and Savior.
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
The Holy Spirit is Satan.
The Holy Ghost is the Christian GOD.
Silly Protest-ant heretic reads a mistranslated book.
King James was a Sodomite Queer, his bible has well over 150 Mistranslations in it.
StSimonMartyr 2 days ago
@StSimonMartyr WTF do you mean by "Holy Spirit is Satan??" Yes, that is what I've said: the Holy Spirit is God. And so is Jesus and Father. We don't read KJV specifically, mind you. And dodging my points again, aren't you?
revoltingamerica 2 days ago
@StSimonMartyr
You say the Holy Spirit is Satan?! You really should stop taking drugs.
You say King James was a Sodomite Queer?! Just like a bunch of pedophile Roman Catholic priests, huh?
tilapiatinapa 2 days ago
Sexual Abuse of Minors in Protestant Churches
By Jonathan Morris
(Fox News) The mainstream media has all but ignored the recent Associated Press report that the 3 major insurance companies for Protestant Churches in America say they typically receive 260 reports each year of minors being sexually abused by Protestant clergy, staff, or other church-related relationships."
260 Protestant Incidents VS 9 in the Catholic Church!
But Prots are Jew friendly. US Kosher media is selective.
StSimonMartyr 1 day ago
@StSimonMartyr
Anti-Semite Sedevacantist. Quit representing the Holy Catholic Church. You are a schismatic. Go away.
TheChurchAuthentic 1 day ago
U Are Anti Gentile
Vatican 2=a Hijacking BY Jews & Protestant heretics into Church doctrine.
THE PLOT AGAINST THE CHURCH written by High ranking Church clergy (Maurice Pinay-Online & free) warns the attending Vatican 2 Bishops, of what was to come) sure enough, everything Forecasted, came to pass.
Every Catholic Must read this book.
Vatican 2 was disasterous. Church attendence, Seminary enrollment, Priests leaving the Church, Divorce, Loss of Faith, The Pill etc.
NO denying this fact.
StSimonMartyr 11 hours ago
@StSimonMartyr
You do not accept our last 5 popes as legitimate successors to the Holy See. So tell me, who does your enterprise have in the wings to assume the chair of St. Peter? Or are there several factions having candidates vying for the anti-Pope slot? You accuse our pope(s) of heresy which can never be proved. Sedevacantism is a failure.
TheChurchAuthentic 5 hours ago
@TheChurchAuthentic Sedevacantism is merly a new Protestant church, add it to the list of thousands.
gtepp031387 1 hour ago
@StSimonMartyr
There are and always will be perverts EVERYWHERE. THAT is one of the reasons why Christ died for the sins of man. So what's your point, aside from your "my religion is better than your religion" rhetoric?
tilapiatinapa 1 day ago
@StSimonMartyr
There may not be anything in Roman Catholic liturgy that says Roman Catholics should worship Mary, but that's what Roman Catholics do. Tell the Roman Catholics in the Philippines that Mary shouldn't be worshipped especially during this coming Roman Catholic "holy week." I guarantee you will be skinned alive by Mary's devotees.
tilapiatinapa 2 days ago
You just destroyed your own argument. And youve not read Revelations either. Praying TO Saints (Mary) IS Biblical and sanctioned, heretic.
'Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the Prayers of the Saints." -Rev 5:8
Tobit 12:12 we read that the Angel presented Tobit & Sarah's prayers to God
StSimonMartyr 1 day ago
He who is seated at the right hand of God, the exulted position accorded to the Christ for His triumph on the cross, is the One who should be prayed to.
tilapiatinapa 1 day ago
@gearzone2611: The masoretic text is corrupted and ANTI-CHRISTIAN and NEVER WAS ACCEPTED BY ANY CHURCH.
Again: The Bible of the CHURCH is the SEPTUAGINTA - only one who read the text in Old Greek will understand the message of the NT.
adamantis4657 5 days ago
@gtepp031387 The very first founding fathers of Christians were Jews. "In Christ Jesus there is neither Jews nor Greek,..' read the entire chapters of Roman Chapter One. Not a single word the need to be Catholic buddy, it only talks about the salvation comes from Jesus Christ by believing Him. Nope, no mention of Peter there, nor the religion of catholic or the keeping seven sacraments. Oh yea, you might as well read the Roman Empire's religious influenced from Greeks, and Egypt!
gearzone2611 1 week ago
@gearzone2611 As far as the first chapter of Romans not mentioning Peter or catholic so what I do not live by bits and piecies of the scripture but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of GOD....You will find in scripture that those who reject the ones GOD ordained to be teachers of his people end up in a bad place.
gtepp031387 6 days ago
@gtepp031387 The scriptures is the word of God. I thought you understood this already. Since you can't find the first Chapter in Romans like, "catholicism, papacy, sacraments, Mary, Vatican, Rome, etc.." in that Chapter, or I say the entire books of Romans. Then, I guess by adding the doctrines of Catholicism, is sure path to rejection of God's commandments, don't you think? Why don't you read it for yourself, since you quoted by yourself in the first chapter of the books of Romans.
gearzone2611 5 days ago
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Blessed Pedro Calungsod, pray for us.
TheChurchAuthentic 1 week ago
Holy Theotokos was kept from every stain of sin, so that the Serpent could not insult her divine Son with, "Your mother was once a slave of mine."
TheChurchAuthentic 1 week ago
"The Savior of the human race willed that a new creation and order should replace the old. Just as in the beginning he used virginal, stainless earth for clay out of which to fashion the first Adam, so again to effect his own incarnation he chose, out of all created nature, this utterly pure and stainless Virgin, in place as it were of the original earth."
from Sermon 1 on the Nativity of Mary, St. Andrew of Crete
TheChurchAuthentic 1 week ago
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@adamantis4657
The Roman Catholic church is the church that follows strange "gods" and not Christ. The Roman Catholic church is the church that does not have a clue about Christ. A church that claims to be "Christian" yet espouses the worship of Mary and the saints is a sham.
tilapiatinapa 2 weeks ago
@tilapiatinapa: LOL u follow strange GODS:
1.) I am not CATHOLIC but ORTHODOX
2.) Protestants ARE SECTARIANS and HERETICS
3.) Protestants have no clue about CHRIST - self leading Sects with "swimming pool" pastors. LOL
4.) ALL CHRISTIANS honor the Most Holy Theotokos and the SAINTS only the cursed heretics do not. But we do not care about Sectarians and Heretics - Protestants are not christians so ....
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657
You claim not to be Catholic but Orthodox. And?
tilapiatinapa 4 days ago
@tilapiatinapa: U know what is a SHAME?
U and your protestan "brothers". Decepted and blinded uneducated people. Go and start to study the Holy Bible, the early church documents, the Apostolic Fathers, the Holy Church Fathers etc...
And look who is HERETIC and WHO IS AGAINST CHRIST and HIS TRUTH = PROTESTANTS the SECT or fornicators and ANTI-CHRISTIANS.
U are not better than the Jews that blamed CHRIST or the Muslims. NO - they even are better - because they also honor the Virgin Mary
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657
You are the shameful, deceived, and blinded one. You still cling to the worship of Mary, and that makes you a practitioner of the pagan practice of "worshipping the mother." Paganism is an abomination to God.
tilapiatinapa 4 days ago
@adamantis4657
I am a condemned heretic?! Condemned by whom, the Roman Catholic church? It's ok. The Roman Catholic church means nothing to me.
tilapiatinapa 2 weeks ago
@tilapiatinapa: Yes u are CONDEMNED:
1.) By the Holy Fathers - go and study the Ecumenical Synods
2.) Therefore by the Holy Church through the Holy Spirit
3.) BY ALL CHRISTIANS - not the RCC alone - BY ALL CHRISTIANS. Protestants are not christians but SECTARIANS
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657
Ooooh, I am condemned by the "holy" fathers. Really? YOUR "holy" fathers condemn people?! Typical Roman Catholic arrogance, claiming something that is Biblically God's right alone.
tilapiatinapa 4 days ago
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@adamantis4657
The Roman Catholic church is the church that follows strange "gods" and not Christ. The Roman Catholic church is the church that does not have a clue about Christ. A church that claims to be "Christian" yet espouses the worship of Mary and the saints is a sham.
tilapiatinapa 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657
The Roman Catholic church is the church that follows strange "gods" and not Christ. The Roman Catholic church is the church that does not have a clue about Christ. A church that claims to be "Christian" yet espouses the worship of Mary and the saints is a sham.
tilapiatinapa 2 weeks ago
"Upon this Rock I will build MY Church."
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic Even if Peter is the rock in Matthew 16:18, this is meaningless in giving the Roman Catholic Church any authority. Scripture nowhere records Peter being in Rome. Scripture nowhere describes Peter as being supreme over the other apostles. The New Testament does not describe Peter as being the “all authoritative leader” of the early Christian church.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
Wassup tomato?
He is, it's not, it does, it does.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic Hey, it's been a while since we last talked, hasn't it? I think this has become a form of ritual in place of usual greetings like "hi," or "how've you been?" Adamantis got off of my back for the first time ever, and I think that's a good sign. I hope he doesn't try to drop off his loads off on me again. Otherwise, he should expect a full-front war between him and I.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
'bout a week. You were busy with my OE brother and I didn't want to bud in or I just didn't have anything to say. Actually I saw a great deal of posting here from you both but I read very little. The page looked dormant so I thought I would proclaim some truth.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic
That's EO, OE= original equipment (my truck).
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic I see. And I never thought I'd see myself expressing my emotion this way, but, lol. At the distinction between EO and OE, I mean.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
Are you making fun of my lyxdesia!!!?
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic No......it's just the way how you phrased it. EO to OE, nothing personal about it.....lol?
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
lol...jk
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic The mouth that which speaks of path for salvation other than Jesus Christ alone is not in communion with Him and any of you who are not with him is against him. Just as there is one God, Jesus Christ, who is both fully God and man, is one mediator between God and men.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
True. I can't argue with you.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica; LOL:
There one here that is not in communion with CHRIST or his Apostles or his Saints is YOU.
U are the condemend heretic here. How many Heresies I have discovered in all your posts? 20 ...?
U are a Mono-thelet, an Icono-clast, a Crypto-Nestorian, an Saints-hater, a Theotokos blasphemer etc, ..
I think I don't even know under how many ANATHEMAS u are? Compared to you cursed Nestorius who burns in Hell - was Orthodox - LOL
So u are not in communion with CHRIST!
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 That's your flawed opinion, which is based on the notion that Orthodox teachings are absolute. None, actually. All of those were, once again, coming from your flawed opinions and you still fail to understand the basic fact that you aren't supposed to bring up what you are trying to prove as evidences for your claims. You are against Jesus for you are not in him. Such claims about the supposed anathemas shall not prevail against the bond between Jesus and I. You do not know Jesus.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
Orthodox and Catholic are united by the seven Mysteries (Sacraments), theology, The Divine Liturgy (the Mass), veneration of Holy Theotokos (the Blessed Virgin Mary), so much so that Orthodox are admitted to Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. The Protestant sectarians, on the other hand, reject all of this and rely on a book they stole from Christ's Holy Church, struggling to interpret it with human understanding.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic Although the concepts and processes of such practices may be shared between the Catholicism and Orthodoxy, the fact still remains that the means of carrying out such rituals differ from Catholicism to Orthodoxy; i.e. Catholics believe that sacrements are effective on the account that the priest who leads Eucharist is there as a stead of Christ, where as Orthodox believe the elements of their ritual become grace-filled by the Holy Spirit.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
At the epiclesis, the priest invokes the Holy Spirit to come down and make these gifts of bread and wine the Body and Blood of Christ for us. There is no difference.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic The two different emphasis of the ritual; elements and priest, is what disallows the union between Catholicism and Orthodoxy. Orthodox believe that the Holy Spirit has granted its grace over the elements that are to be used throughout their ritual, where as Catholics believe that because priest is there in stead of Christ, that fact alone more than justifies the "holiness" of their practices.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
Driving a wedge between Catholicism and Orthodoxy does not impress me. The minor difference in emphasis and understanding pales in comparison to the great gulf between Protestantism and Orthodoxy or Catholicism. You have stripped the altars.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic The emphasis I've pointed out in my last post shows the different meanings for each branches of Christianity. It's like giving two different reasons for liking something; Don likes an apple for its sour flavor, where as Jared is fond of it because of its juiciness. Either person would stop having an apple as their favorite fruit, if an apple were to lose an aspect of what makes it so charming to them.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
Your conclusion is flawed. The preferences are not mutually exclusive. Blessed John Paul the Great spoke of the Church of the East as the other lung of the Church. There is much the Church of West can learn from the East and vice versa.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
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revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
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@TheChurchAuthentic You do realize that the person whose name you are boasting of is none other than the pope who had started the gathering of world religions into Vatican and went on to state that the world must come into a single understanding that there must be a unification between men, right? His successor did pretty much the same, which, to me, was a blatant act. The Bible says keep away those who are against Jesus, yet he covers it up with the Holy Spirit guiding him.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
Your complaint is sour grapes. The Holy Father expressed the desire to unite the world in Christ. This is also the mind of Christ and his Blessed Mother Mary. Who would you exclude from the family of God? Your religion isn't big enough for God.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic Anyone who is not with him is against him. They were and are still aware of the existence of God and full-well knows of Christian-faith, yet they continue to reject God. Our Father warned us about the forecoming of a being who would wish to gather the world and beneath his feet. Mary is a human who is obedient to God and her mind is irrelevant to our cause. Those who slander in God's name shall have their tongue turn against them.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
Catholics want to gather all into Christ. Mary wants the same. Because of her humility, he who is mighty has done great things for her, beginning with her Immaculate Conception. Her mind is the mind of Christ and is certainly relevant to the advocacy of her children (Mother of Jesus, Jesus our brother, Mary our mother).
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic Mary was highly favored one of the Lord and for that, she was given the privilege of giving birth to the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Despite his true status, Jesus Christ lowered himself down to that of a form of his servants. Mary's mind and body withered as a human and faced physical death in her due time. Jesus Christ was transfigured after his resurrection and sat on the right hand of God. Any believer's mother is your mother, and her family, your family.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
When her earthly life was over, the Mother of God was assumed into heaven, body and soul, participating in the resurrection of her divine Son before any of us. Mary was given this privilege among others. She stands at the right hand of Christ in his majestic kingdom. She is royalty and intercedes for her children and by extension, for all of humanity.
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic That's a corrupt assumption made in the light of Mary's supposed divinity. Instead of believing in God's wonders and his majestic powers, you incorrectly assume that the second person of the Trinity can be tainted by the likes of a human's sins. Denying God's omnipotence, you believe that Mary had to be a sinless person for the Son for him to dwell in her body.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica
You know Catholics and Orthodox believe that Mary is human, but you persist in lying about what we believe. That doesn't make it true, just your wishful thinking and outright denial. We believe that God highly favored Mary and selected her to be his Mother. Can God choose his own mother? Is anything too hard for the Lord?
TheChurchAuthentic 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic That's because the Bible tells us not to make images of anything or anyone on Earth, Heaven, and etc. for the purpose of worship, which is what extreme veneration means. God tells us he is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. He existed, exists, and will exist forever. His reincarnation and human mother do not justify the assumption of Mary. So, why bother telling me all this again?
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: Images?
Have we not discussed about Images? Have I not shown through the Bible, the Holy Fathers, the Apostolic Tradition that GOD EVEN ORDERED to make Images? Why not u post the same nonsense after I have proven u wrong?
Again wrong: Have I not explained that since apostolic times christains believed that SHE MUST HAVE HAD a special death. When even Eljah, Henoch and others had such.
Why? Do u think Henoch is higher than the Mother of God?
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 Yeah and I've told you that those Cherubims were constructed in the House of the Lord for the purpose of decoration and those "holy statues" were viewed as God's footstool. Do you, in all honesty, believe Jews would honor God's footstool? Mary was a human and died as a human. She was a human who was used for the purpose of God. She was a human mother of Jesus, who had taken on the form of a servant when, in fact, he is the second person of Trinity.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: Would Jews honor God's footstool?
Yes, of course. They honored all HOLY OBJECTS of the Temple, the Holy Arc, even the Temple was honored. Even until this day they honor the Wall of the Temple with prayers and etc..
They honored the Thora, the prayer ropes, etc..EVERYTHING - they even prostrated before the ARC of GOD. Yes, they honored them
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 They only did that once they knew God's presence had filled the Temple of God. Other than such occasions and as opposed to your kind, they restrained themselves from giving their worship to meaningless images.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: WRONG:
U asked me if the Jews venerated the FOOTSTOOL of GOD and I said yes. Even the Mountain where God appeared was venerated, even the burning bush - today the Greek Orthodox Monastery of St. Cathrine enshrines the Bush where God appeared - also many Muslims and Jews go there to venerated this Holy Place.
So yes - the Israelits VENREATED THESE OBJECTS - because these Objects where sanctified by Gods presence
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 There's a reason why they had fallen out of God's favor and why the attention had shifted from them to all of us. And they do so, only because they think that they each are in favor of God.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: REALLY,
Yes, because they SACRIFICED everything for CHRIST. They even rejected their families, they lived in caves with wild animals like St. Jerome who was reading the Bible in hebrew UNCEASINGLY. Or like St. Athanasios who fighted until death for the Glory of CHRIST. Or all the Martyrs who gave their life and endured; persectution, torture, for CHRIST.
Or St. Alexander of Alexandria who fasted so much that the sun shone throug his stomache. Of course they were bad
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 All for naught, yes. And when they rose to power during the era of Constantine, they twisted the wisdom for their petty pride in making the religion and the church, not the truth itself. In defense of their newfound wealth and position, they persecuted/burnt off any evidence as well as people who were reading the Bible to others as they were heretics. They were the heroes of old, not those who were blinded by the god of this world.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@TheChurchAuthentic: Well - I think we are not lying:
Because as it can be seen from your posts: WE ARE RIGHT. U deny Her to be THEOTOKOS, u deny Her to have a blessd death, u deny Her - to be the true Mother of CHRIST GOD - u deny her to be our intercessor, u deny Her to be the Temple of God, to be His Holy Throne, to be GRACEFILLED.
She was not higly favoured - why are u so stubborn? When I explained that KE-CHARITOMENI means FULL OF GRACE - why do u deny truth?
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 This is what you are saying: "Okay, man. Suppose Allah is not your God. But we believe in Jesus Christ and that he existed. Muhammad gave us our knowledge from the holy angel of Allah. So, I think we are not fornicating any facts here, just the truth." Any resemblence? The Bible says spread the truth of the Lord like a gentle dove. Even your fellow brothers in faith disagree with you about how you act in a debate. Doesn't that tell you something in particular?
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: Allah and Mohammed?
Do u know the quran? I know it. Do u know what Islam is? A GNOSTIC SECT - it is a mix of some christian, jewish, and others...
St. John of Damascus wrote a book on all Heresies: One part was: AGAINST THE HERESY OF THE ISMAELITS. So Muslims are heretics.
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 And I am very much pleased at the fact that you are that much aware of their faith. Now all you need to do is to focus and picture a striking resemblence between their and your faith.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: Islam and Orthodoxy:
1.) Orthodox can not be compared to Islam - because we do not procclaim New Prophets with New Messages or New books. I was speaking to u about the Holy Bible and the Holy Fathers the authors of the Bible.
2.) As I told u once - Protestantism is very very similar to Islam: they destroy Icons, they do not confess the Virgin Mary to be Mother of God, they deny the Church, et
3.) This is horrible even to compare when we suffered so horrible from islam
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 1) Apocrypha; different editions of canon for RCC and Orthodoxy, vision of Mary who proclaimed herself to be the way to life and the support of rosaries, and the set-up for images.
2) Our actions serve different purposes.
3) So the "Holy Crusade," and how did that turn out again?
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: WRONG
1.) Luther came up with a NEW CANON and not WE. Because ALL CHRISTAINS:
ORTHODOX, CATHOLICS, ORIENTAL CHRISTIANS, ANGLICANS - WE ALL HAVE ONE BIBLE.
But not the SECTS - so not we have come with a new BOOK but u.
2.) The Mother of God appeared even to the Apostles - since that time She always appeared. This is nothing new.
3.) Icons are APOSTOLIC as I told u. Even CHRIST made an Icon of HIS FACE - Shroud of Turin is also such an ICON
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 1) Then why were the present-day apocrypha not originally included in your original canon?
2) Of course, she was alive back then. So, unless disciples were facing the crisis of loss of their vision, it's quite natural that they'd see her.
3) The image resembles the image of Jesus, but how are we to supposed that that's his image?
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago
@revoltingamerica: WRONG
1.) Because those BOOKS always have been there. Because the BIBLE of the CHURCH is the SEPTUAGINTA and not the HEBREW BIBLE of MASORETS - who are the enemy of CHRIST
2.) Now instead of posting FACT u start again to Blaspheme. The Most Holy Theotokos APPEARED SEVERAL TIMES TO THE APOSTLES - as we know Tradition.
3.) Because ALL CHRISTIANS BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE and we know it through Tradition. ALL AGREE
adamantis4657 2 weeks ago
@adamantis4657 1) The so-called "HEBREW BIBLE" is the text that Jesus respected and used when reading aloud to the public mass.
2) Yes, in her physical form and while she was alive along with her other children, perhaps.
3) People believe what is easier for them to believe and the truth no longer can be found in such vulgar chunk of info.
revoltingamerica 2 weeks ago