Disagreeing about god is in fact believing in a different god. Since there is no common frame of reference (IE a real god) then all we have is two separate and unique beliefs. Hence, one person is atheist to the other person's god.
@comslave Umm..Going by this "logic" if I read Dan Brown and you read Agatha Christie, from my perspective you read nothing at all and vice versa? So I think that argument is made just for the sake of arguing..
Oh Man!! You could have just summarized your video in one sentence.. "My god is true and your's is not and since I believe in my god I am not an atheist"...
It would be fun to hear how you explain basic mathematics to your kids. By the time you finish, your kid would have grown up and started having his own kids... "Premises, Apples and Oranges"?? Going by these bullshits, You are probably an MBA dropout..
you redject all consepts of deities except one and I just redject one more. I fail to see how that would be any diffrent then saying ,,you redject all deities except one and I just redject one more,,.
Sooooo if the prevailing religions of our time were Norse gods or the Polynesian mud gods, and Islam was a tiny religion practiced by a few - would you not be atheist in the popular view? You'd be considered a cultist...There are so many levels between theist and atheist, that the labeling of your own belief system is just intellectually shortchanging yourself.
This only holds water if you only compare Christians and Muslims, or other monotheists. Most religions throughout history, however, have been folk religions, where they would not reject one another's gods the way Christians and Muslims do. You begin by rejecting any being but God, with arguments that could just as easily be turned to all gods.
You are 100% right but you do miss the point. It usually answers the question "Why do you reject god" in that context we all reject a god, we just go one step further and remove one last god. You are being tripped up on the fact that he adds "We are all athiest" but that is not really the argument he puts foward.
When a Christian and a Muslim debate theology, it reminds me of when I was a kid and I would debate with my friends who would win in a real fight, Optimus Prime or Megatron... That would be epic! Or how about Zeus and Odin? That would be pretty cool too. People of faith are arguing on the basis on non-facts. Proven, scientific facts!
@SamiZaatari The point was you don't believe in the existence of their gods. Islam describes a very specific god and this is not the same as that of the Hindus. This argument would only be valid if you were debating another follower of the Abrahamic religion and the argument that you're arguing for the existence of a creator would only hold any Merritt in a deistic perspective
A Christian rejects all claims of gods except for Jesus
A Muslim rejects all claims of gods except for Muhammad
An Atheist rejects all claims of all gods.
So would a Christian and a Muslim both agree that Zeus exists or would they say that they didn't believe Zeus exists? If so then they are atheist towards Zeus.
There's definitely a case in favour of a 'belief scale'.
Quite clearly, the polytheists are the least atheist of all people. Because they accept the existence of the most number of Gods.
People who don't believe in any Gods, are the most atheist.
Somewhere between these two ends, are the muslims and christians. who only believe in one god. Not quite atheist, but there's a lot of Gods that they don't believe in. So, I propose a new word for those who reject all gods but one: 'Apolytheist'.
The basic problem with your critique of the statement "We are all atheists" is a problem of definition. Atheism isn't a "rejection" of god. Atheism is a lack of faith in a god or a group of gods. Since a Muslim believes in Allah but not in any of the Hindu gods, a Muslim is an atheist from a Hindu standpoint. The basic premise of atheism is not "there is no god". The basic premise is "since there is no evidence of any gods, there is no good reason to believe".
When you think about it and, you don't have think too hard. You'll realise that the person who came up with this argument, was trying to make you think.
Your train of thought is more tangled than the flying spaghetti monsters noodly appendages.
"This argument is completely rubbish. I mean, the person who came up with this argument; was trying too think to fast, and was trying to be too smart, and when that happens, you often make silly mistakes."
There can be different definitions of atheist in encyclopedias:
- DISBELIEF in the existence of one or more deitys;
- DENIAL of the existence of God or gods and of any supernatural existence;
- one who BELIEVES that there is NO deity;
You can believe in the Christian God but reject/deny/disbelieve in Jesus as a God even tough they are(suppose to be) of the same nature. Or perhaps you can point out Zeus as an miss interpreted Allah and reject the existence of all the others (Poseidon, Hades...)
Dawkin's doesn't use this as a serious argument, its more of a play on words. He is well aware of the distinction between an atheist and a theist and everything in between. You made a whole video about pretty much nothing. lol.
so before you wana go acting like you know everything I suggest you go do some research for yourself before you make such bad bad bad bad terrible arguments
Atheism is pr definition the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. So when you reject all the thousands of other gods of other mythologies and religions you are doing exactly the same thing as atheists, and for the very same reason also, it`s just that people who call themselves atheists reject one god more than you..
Sami, I think you still not understand the argument. What "we are all atheists" means is that we all feel the same about the other people's god. What you don't understand is that even atheist doesn'T claim that there is no cause to universe (which you call "god"). Atheist have this question open.
Don't tell me that you have a single nanogram of faith in Vishnu or Ahura Mazda. You feel EXACTLY the same about them than me!!! Christian/muslim debates are only debates on the same god's definition.
@rollingklouds > ["There’s no “other people’s god”. If there's a God, he's the Creator of al"]
If everything was created by supernatural agency. Without objective evidence. You're no more entitled to attribute creation to a single author, then anyone else claiming that there are a pantheon of gods on the project.
Unlike God, which only exists conceptually. The sky is real and has an external frame of reference. One need only point, to convey the meaning of the word for sky in any language.
@6Untitled9 The moment you say 'gods', none is. Because, Infinity is indivisible. If there is an author, there is only one, uniquely one.
>>Without objective evidence....
God is not an object we can compare anything with. Every object is finite, and are all objects together. Only thing that is not, is the Originator of objects.
The sky may be real to you; unreal to those who don't see it, or has no faculty to see it.
@rollingklouds > [ "The moment you say 'gods', none is."]
Well that's your rule. It might fit your conception of god. But It doesn't fit everybody's concept of god. You're going to have to prove that the god who fits your definition actually exists, before you're entitled to claim precedence of your god over anyone else's.
["The sky may be real to you; unreal to those who don't see it,"]
Don't be silly!
["God is not an object "]
Agreed! God is a concept, That only exists in the imagination.
@rollingklouds > [ "-Something is not a tangible object doesn't mean it's only a concept." ]
I never suggested otherwise.
The supernatural agents called God or Gods as depicted in the religions of the world. Are a specific category of concepts called fiction, or mythology, which does not describe real things. Included in this category are angels, demons, fairies, elves, mermaids, unicorns etc.
Unlike the scientific concept; The 'electron'. Whose testable working model, proves that it's real.
@rollingklouds > [ "Prove to me that matter existed for eternity." ]
Actually this is a potential opportunity for the theists to get a supernatural foot in the door so to speak.
Energy and matter are the same thing, they are interchangeable, ( E = mc2). The 'law of conservation of energy' states that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So, if you can prove that this law of nature was violated at the 'big bang' or anytime since. You may have a case to posit a supernatural intervention.
How can Law of nature be violated before the nature came into existence?
Energy and mass are indeed 2 sides of the same coin. However, as long as either phase is time-bound, it's finite. 'Conservation of energy' cannot happen before the creation of mass or energy.
Time is the space between two events; no event, no time. There was neither time, nor laws of nature to break.
Only Infinity is timeless. Matter, energy & time are all finite.
@6Untitled9 It's really simple. Universe/nature did not/ could not exist for eternity. Because the universe/nature is finite (as it it composed of finite masses, and because it involves time), it has to have a beginning.
If the universe did not exist for eternity (basic math, really), it had to come from something, right?
That something can only be infinite, because it is infinite, it can be only one. Why, because, there cannot be more than one infinity.
@rollingklouds > ["Universe/nature did not/ could not exist for eternity. "]
Why not?
> ["t had to come from something, right?"]
Not necessarily. According to observation and measurements carried out by real scientists. The total mass and energy in the universe, (when taking gravity into account, which acts as negative energy), adds up to zero. So yes, it is possible to get a universe from nothing.
@6Untitled9 Since when 0 is infinity? If I accept that argument, an equilibrium of forces does not produce infinity. Nor does it mean it does not involve time.
Anytime a “phase” happens, time happens. Before the Big Bang, you may say though, there was no time. But there was ‘finity’, as the primordial mass contained all the finite objects of the universe we see. So, it was not finite, and so, it is impossible for it to exist for eternity and become infinity.
You start with zero, then you start counting and you keep counting forever. Thats's what infinity is, it's a mathematical abstract. One that's curiously consistent with the data we have for our universe. It started with zero, it began expanding and is continuing to expand, at an ever increasing rate.
The trouble with your argument. Is that you've given an abstract concept, abilities and desires that just suit your beliefs.
Neither 0 is infinity, nor counting on for a trillion years will yield you Infinity.
Dividing 1 by 0, as in 1/0 does not give you that either, you may write ∞, but it's nothing. You are mixing up. If you add trillions or subtract the same, you'll neither increase nor decrease it.
But you did. You wrote: ..."keep counting forever. Thats's what infinity is."
You can't prove that the universe CAN exist forever. My point was exactly this: If you can't prove that the universe existed for ever, something had to be there before it, which CANNOT be a “thing”. Whatever that is, that is “It”; -the non-finite Creator. YOU prove the eternity of the universe.
Eliminate the world of matter, since it did not exist for ever. It's a simple method of deduction. If the answer is not found in the finite world, it is the Infinity.
It is, The He, or The It.
The Creator, the Originator, The Eternal, The Truth, The First and the Last.
You're perfectly entitled to speculate on the state of the universe 'prior' to the BB. You may even credit your particular brand of deity as the 'originator' if you wish.
But, it has no bearing on the universe as we find it. Everything since the BB can be accounted for within current physical models, who's immense utility is testament to their veracity.
Science presents other pre BB hypotheses. I will wait and see.
@KaonNeutre did you here him dude. THE PREMISE IS DIFFERENT. muslims DON"T REJECT CHRISTIAN GOD. THEY DIFFER IN THE NATURE OF GOD. THE NATURE. You contradict yourself.
Hindu scriptures preach ONE GOD. Read it for yourself. That just destroys your entire argument man
@muslimgiga The Brahman is not a personal god. And in the beginning of the universe (Hindus style), Brahman create the universe, Vishnu keep it going and Shiva destroy it. Muslims accuse christians to be polytheists because of the trinity, you have to twist things very much to believe that hindus are monotheists...
@muslimgiga Oh then I guess the whole world should refer to you to learn real knowledge. Because YOU know. Hindus don't know nor the christians. Thanks man to keep me far from the rest of the world that run away from your reality, the only one that seems to exist.
@KaonNeutre GO to college and study comparative religion. Your really speaking out of your butt. I know many hindu's and they think belief in 2000 gods is BS so you know what they usually do?
a/They try reading the scriptures
b/The scriptures are so complicated and long that they give up
@KaonNeutre so what you consider "rational" is rational and religion is stupid and irrational? I think believing in an imaginary thing up in the sky is more plausible that believing in pokemon style evolution and that somehow denying the fact that there IS some imaginary thing in the sky. Makes NO sense to me.
@muslimgiga I think religion hinder people to be objective. There is no way you can know if you are wrong or not if you are not objective. That's all. Religions are messing up the whole humanity for that. Because religious people can't be objective enough about their religion to notice when is wrong. So normal good people do evil things.
Evolution has nothing to do with religion. It's just because your beliefs go against it that you stay in your creepy ignorance.
@KaonNeutre your saying evolution goes against the islamic concept of creation? of man yes or anything else no.
But now that you mention it, your saying religion is messing up humanity when for millions of years people have been following religion. NOW in the 21st century the world is more messed up that EVER BEFORE. Cus of religion? WWII cus of RELIGION? no. You have it wrong buddy.
cool, that's a good start. The fact is that evolution doesn't care about religions. It's only builded from a long process of OBSERVATIONS which OBJECTIVELY LEAD to the concept of evolution. That's all!
Religions messing-up the world today because all religions are sold like the absolute truth and hinder people to be objective. It has messed-up in the past because it was one of the reason to conquer (christians/muslims/todays-jews).
@muslimgiga It mess also because all the shit like excision and circumcision (genital mutilations), slavery acceptance (proof that religion are man-made). And so much other reasons...
@muslimgiga > ["when for millions of years people have been following religion."]
Millions of years? How many millions of years?
The earliest archeological evidence for humans is only 200 000 yrs. And we only began migrating out of Africa about 70 000 years ago. Your religion is only 1400 yrs old and the earliest monotheism perhaps 3000yrs.
If you just make stuff up. No one will take what you say seriously. Check on your facts before you quote figures that can be easily referenced.
@6Untitled9 how can you prove that a civilization was monotheistic? What statue or archaeological "evidence" can you find?
Just because science advances it deny's God? What type of "mind" or "cognitive skill" do you have you explain the universe with it's perfectness as a big "WOW THAT WAS EASY".
talk about rational thought. Atheists are hypocrites of their own argument.
@muslimgiga >["how can you prove that a civilization was monotheistic? What statue or archaeological "evidence" can you find?"]
Zoroastrianism. Look it up, educate yourself. Founded in Persia a thousand years before the Arabs came along with Islam.
>["do you have you explain the universe with it's perfectness as a big"]
Religion doesn't tell you anything about the universe, because it doesn't know anything. It's just an idea that infects your brain and makes you its slave.
@6Untitled9 hehe persian zoroastrianism worships fire. LMAOF records of it exist, it has a book. My question is about a MUCH earlier time such as some of the earliest civilizations. You don't have any records or books.
and your 2nd assertion is exactly that, an assertion. How are you "intelligent" because your not religious? Christopher Hitchens is an alcoholic. Not exactly an intelligent life style HAHA. Don't use religion for your morality then, AT ALL. Why is it wrong to rape people? lmaof.
@muslimgiga > [" How are you "intelligent" because your not religious?" ]
Listen to yourself! Read the stuff you're writing now. It's all over the place. That's called cognitive dissonance. It's what happens when the 'religion virus' in your brain is threatened by reason.
@muslimgiga > ["Issac Newton believed in a God. Reconcile that."]
I don't have a problem with that. 400yrs ago almost everyone believed in god.
He didn't believe in your god though, did he. Because he took away one of your gods jobs, didn't he. Previously God took care of moving the planets around and holding us on the ground. Now we know it's not God that does that, it's gravity.
@muslimgiga > ["Atheist belief is REJECTION and all about IGNORING the world."]
Not true. No one ignores the world like believers. Whose slave minds are firmly fixed on the false promise of a hereafter.
Your Allah, does not fit the facts. By examining the world using science, he's been put out of a job. He's not needed to explain anything. Hence. Atheism, (no belief), is the default position.
Thanks for visiting my channel muslimgiga. But it's best keep our discussion here, in one place.
@muslimgiga >["What's gravity? please elaborate. What does gravity look like? How big is it? What does it smell like?"]
Can you answer any of those questions about God? I can prove gravity is real.
>["Gravity is part of the system God designed."]
Is that a fact? Could you explain how God designed it? or by any chance; Tell us what materials he used to make it? Where did the stuff come from? Was it magic? or was it already lying around, to be picked up and put together.
@assfaggot According to your logic yes, I was a hindu when I was born just like any other person. If you don't like my attitude stop writing bullshit and go educate yourself. Specifically take some logic courses.
@assfaggot The problem is that you are dumb, no other problem. Atheism is the rejection of the belief in the existence of ANY deity. Hence a christian cannot be an atheist with respect to any other belief because he doesn't reject the existence of any deity. At the end of the day he believes to his own god. If you rip apart that definition then with the same logic it can be said that we are all hindus. I feel ashamed that I lower myself to your level to explain elementary stuff. Try to get it.
@JackSparrowDepp "Hence a christian cannot be an atheist with respect to any other belief because he doesn't reject the existence of any deity"
RE
Do you believe that Zeus is the father of the gods (after his parents died anyway)? Greek mythology teaches that Zeus was above all the many gods.
Do you believe that's true, or was true in the past? Or are you a DISBELIEVER? Do you accept or reject that those Greek beliefs are the ultimate truth, and all other religions are false?
@JackSparrowDepp "Follow what I wrote here to assfagot and you'll get eveything"
"there's no such term as "being an atheist in respect to someone". "
RE
So you do believe Zeus is the father of the Gods. You do not reject that, or any of the other myths people believe. You have faith that every religion is true, including the pre-Islamic idols at Mecca, and all the local nature spirits of indigenous religions. You are not a disbeliever in any way, shape or form.
@assfaggot You keep proving that you are stupid. According to your logic a Christian is an atheist with respect to Islam because he doesn't believe in Islam. Then a Christian is also a hindu with respect to Islam because a hindu also doesn't believe in Islam. You created a new term for atheism with respect to others, and I using your logic created a new term "hindu with respect to others". Get it already.
@assfaggot LOL there's no such term as "being an atheist in respect to someone". With the same logic we can say that a christian is a hindu in respect to Allah because hindu doesn't believe in Allah. Take some logic courses and stop embarassing yourself.
@assfaggot LOL you furthermore prove that you are dumb as hell. If you assume that a Muslim or a Christian can be considered to be an atheist, then by the same logic a Muslim or Christian must be consideres to be a hindu. You said that atheism is a lack of belief in god but both Muslim and Christian believe in god (or gods).
@assfaggot You are dumb as hell, do you wanna me prove that? A hindu doesn't believe in Christianity and any other religion except Hinduism. So according to your logic we are all Hindus because we are in the same position as Hindus in regard to other beliefs. Go educate yourself.
You're arguing semantics by stating that Theists use the same premise. You're inferring that no other religion throughout history has believed in a different God(s). Some have seen Him as a single God and others as a multitude. but they've simply had conceptual differences of the same being.
You ultimately deny the existence of the Hindu Gods. Stating they are just a conceptual difference from the God you believe in is projecting your beliefs onto an entire religion.
dear brother sami... may Allah almighty bless you for serving Islam....I still could not understand the meaning of the word "Atheists". Please make me clear its meaning in simple english
I think the reason people like Dawkins make this argument is because of the numbers of theists (Christians are by far the worst here) who seem blind to the fact that there could be even any other options than atheism or their specific faith - or at least they argue as if this was the case.
You make the case yourself that when an atheist and a theist argue they are disagreeing about the very existence of a deity at all, unfortunately many....
...of your fellow theists just don't seem to get that - they cannot seperate the scientific and philosophical levels from the specifics of mythological specifics of their faith (I don't use the word mythological in a derogatory sense here, just to mean 'traditional stories about gods')
I think you've missed the point of the argument. As far as I can tell, it's from Stephen Roberts. Have you heard the rest of the quote? "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." This puts the argument in a different light.
What utter nonsense! The atheist perspective is a negation not a proposition. The point being there is no evidence for YOUR or any God existing....You ARE an atheist is terms of Zeus or in polytheistic religions....You know as well as I do the the biggest sin in Islam is to take another God over Allah....So how does this not make you the very definition of an atheist in regards to other god's?
Dawkins really said this? lolwtf. Just read to him what the definition of theism is.
It states that a theist is one who believes in the existence of A GOD or GODS. It says "a god" right? Even though christians might reject a muslim God they still believe in A God. So his arguement is invalid.
...unless Dawkins wants to argue against the dictionary too.
The thing is: this argument is in response to the accusation that atheism is a religion. Yet you never address that. You are a non-christian, calling that a religion is as stupid as calling atheism a religion. Instead of calling you a muslim I could call you an achristian? Then claim that is a religion? Welcome to the Church of Achristianity! Do you collect butterflies? No? Then your hobby is non-butterfly-collecting. You keep creating strawmen with your videos, by misrepresenting others.
@NucularRobit - 1 - you make some good points with reinforce brother Sami Zaatari's video. it is the atheists who are arguing that everyone is an atheist. this is silly, absurd, stupid, ridiculous, and nonsensical. the fact that Sami had to repeat this simple point over and over again...yet so many people are still on here defending that view - shows how utterly stupid some atheists can be.
@Mr1Fox9 You missed the point again... The claim that all theists are atheists is in response to saying that atheism is a religion because they universally disbelieve in god. The counter argument is that all non-christians could be called Achristians instead of their respective religion. Atheists are not actually claiming that all religions are atheist, they are pointing out the logical fallacy of calling them a religion.
@NucularRobit - religion can be defined in many different ways. atheism - less so. if u really stretch out the definition, then sure, this counter-argument works. but really that is just playing word games. it comes down to the definition of things really. and u don't need a mistaken argument to counter another mistaken argument. calling someone an atheist is very different from saying they are achristian. atheism is not a religion...it is a form of polytheism (from our perspective).
@NucularRobit - 2 - based on the definition of atheism that atheists themselves use...are cannot and are not all atheists. however, based on the meaning and definition of *shirk* that Muslims use - atheists are polytheists (mushrikeen) as are agnostics and almost all other faiths and ideologies. this is from an Islamic perspective and based on Islamic terms and definitions.
@Sandzak95 How will repeating a small point for 10 minutes help in this case? Will it stop people from spreading falsehood? No, on the contrary the people who spread falsehood will still spread falsehood. But by making such verbose videos with minimal content Sami is alienating a large number of smart and rational listeners and he will just be left with the run-of-the-mill firebrand extremists as his listeners. And repeating his point for 100 mins will also have no effect on those guys.
@Sandzak95 You will be surprised and how effective concise messages can be. On the other hand verbose messages without commensurate content is much more likely to be perceived simply as a rant.
@udaykc hahaha, that's why many atheists are actually making points I ADDRESSED ON VIDEO? maybe if some of you were bright enough to understand me the first time I wouldn't need to repeat myself, heck, did you miss the part where i explained why i repeat myself? lollll, my good god some people are stupid.
@SamiZaatari Lol! Just because you realize that you are making too many reps doesn't make it any better. It's a youtube video for Allah's sake. No matter how stupid anyone is they can always go back listen to your points again. I'm sorry to say, by repeating a simple point so many times you are simply making yourself appear stupid. It appears as if you have nothing else to say but you still wish to have a 10 mins video. Brevity is the soul of wit and verbosity is like the iniquity of idolatry.
@SamiZaatari Hahaha, clearly you are running out of defense. Ad hominen attacks is the lowest form of debate and you would do well if you remember it. Secondly, you are making many assumptions about me. Again not a sign of a good debater. Finally, make sure you look up the difference between "your" and "you're". Lol, it's amusing to see you call other people stupid.
@udaykc tell me how far have you gotten in life with being so smart to spell your and you're? your so proud of yourself because of that, HA. and no, calling a stupid person stupid is not an ad-hominem if the person being called stupid is indeed proven to have been stupid.
@SamiZaatari More ad hominems. Clearly you have a lot to learn. And what has my life got to do with it anyway, either way I have gotten really far in my life both academically and in terms of my accomplishments. Thank you for asking. Calling names is a clear sign of weak intellect under any circumstance. And in this case you haven't proven anyone to be stupid, so your case is far worse. The main problem is that you have make a very wrong presumption about your audience.
@SamiZaatari I don't want to discuss my résumé here, but god willing if we meet someday and I'd be more than happy to discuss my work and accomplishments. Being in science I'm not really well known outside scientific circles. The media is interested in my work only if it sounds flashy enough for a title :), but that's how media works.
@SamiZaatari You seem to have deleted my first message. I had seen comments from other people saying that you delete comments if you don't like them. I initially didn't believe them, but now I know that they were right. My comment was not abusive or crass. It was also well received by your other viewers with at least 6 thumbs up. But you still deleted it and it doesn't reflect well on you. Either way, I listened to your most recent video and you did a much better job with that one.
Do you realize that the "Jewish God", "Christian God", and "Muslim God" are one and the same? (i.e. the "God" of Abraham) Thus, Christians do not reject the Muslim God and vice versa (as you claim). Also, in theory, the main Hindu God "Brahman" (from which all their other deities are manifested) can be equated to this "God" as well. I agree with what you are saying, but hope you realize that "God" is the same in all these religions.
@BachScholar - that is not exactly true. the christians take Jesus as an incarnation of God (or a separate deity that is said to be of the progeny of God). both jews and muslims reject this. while much more similar, the attributes of God according to jews and muslims also differ. the unified God of brahman that some hindus believe in is also ultimately different. in Islam, God is the most unique. other faiths attempt to unify God (which contradicts complete uniqueness).
no, we don't do this for a sake of an audience. at the same time, it is obligatory to seek out an audience. i know that sounds like a contradiction - but think about it a little bit more, and you'll see that it actually is not.
عندما تقرأ لملحد تعليق ..فقط أي تعليق وترى مدى سخافة هذه الافكار التي والله لا استطيع حتى ان اسميها افكار حيوانيه لأن الحيونات تسبح الله وحده ..فعندما ترى تعليق لملحد ...اسجد لله سجود شكر لأنك مسلم ..وقل الحمد لله على نعمة الإسلام
جزاك الله خير اخي سامي على ما تقدمه من مجهود لخدمة الإسلام واسأل الله الكريم رب العرش العظيم أن يجعل ذلك في موازين حسناتك
@nafism6969 Seriously? God exists? Where? Can you describe him to me? How does he look like, what does he do? Whats his philosophy? What was he doing BEFORE he created EVERYTHING?
@Drago19930713 yes. seriously. He resides on His magnificent throne (which is beyond human comprehension, in this life). He is The Creator, The First, The Last, The Eternal, The All-Aware, The All-Mighty, The Ever Living.
none of mankind or Jinn has seen Him in this life. He is screened by an immense and magnificnet shroud of light. man will see him in Heaven. Only Al-lah nos what He did before creating planet earth. thats up to Him. and only He will no what he does post Day of Judgement.
@Drago19930713 u dont have to "see" something to no that something is there. do u c ur neighbours have sex? no. but i KNOW they have sex. what if someone said to me "hay, I saw ur neighbours have sex the other night". I didnt c it. but the chances of my witness speaking the truth is very high.
similarly, an Angel ( I forgot the name) brought Gods commands to prophet Muhammad and many other prophets before him. the Angels NEVER disbey God. they cant. but we can. we r humans. not Angels. (cont
@Drago19930713 He is All Mighty. look at ur self in the mirror. look at ur family. look at the whales, the sharks, trees, moon, sun, the solar system, planets, look at the human body. think about the air, sunlight, fire, wind, seas, did u create them?? do u not think that the One who created these cant also create Heaven, Hell, Angels, and anything that He pleases?
God is the The Most Wise. look at ur situation. what if He made u blind? what if He made you a retard? r u too (cont)
@Drago19930713 arrogant to even REALISE this (let alone thank Him)? no decision is made by God in vain. even the most destitute of persons on earth is saved from certain torments but is suffering others. ALL of mankind is suffering in one way or other. r u perfect ? no. God is. not u. no one is perfect but God. God is flawless, The Supreme. muslims r told (not sure whether our beloved prophet or the Koran says this) but we r told that if man was to COUNT the number of blessings (cont)
@Drago19930713 he/she has in his/her life, that person would NEVER finish counting God's blessings on him/her. NEVER. every breath u take is GIVEN to u by God. yet u deny Him? did u create air ??
who created air ? did u create the atmosphere?
u breath God's air, u eat from God's plants, yet...u too proud to admit that He even EXISTS, let alone worship Him.
@nafism6969 Non of this still explains how you ''know'' so much stuff about god... And for what I am I thank my parents (for their decision not to use condom) it was their will to bring me here. My personality was formed because of influence of other people and information. So I dont really see where ''god'' comes in. Your examples regarding real life doesnt really reflect so something ''out of space'' here (god). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. cont
@Drago19930713 Thing is, you will never be able to justify dogmas you preach. There is and there will never be evidence of supreme being like this. I bet you know the paradox of all-powerfulness. And another thing. You claim, that god created universe. Ok then, what was this being doing when there was NOTHING except him? Jack off? Don't think so... According to you, god existed FOREVER. Well. Why not skip a step and say- universe existed forever? cont.
@Drago19930713 Thing is, I DONT KNOW if such thing exists. And nor do you. Only difference between me and you is, that I can ADMIT that I dont know. And you pretend knowledge to feel better... So who has more arrogance, my friend? Personally, I think, IF being like this existed, it wouldn't judge us, nor it would reward us for things we do here... The only person who we can judge is ourselves. cont
@Drago19930713 So, I dont judge anyone for what they believe or think. I'm just asking questions and sharing my thoughts in hope, that it will make other people think. Thats my ''hobby'' so to speak. Any path you chose, will be yours. And why you chose it, share your thoughts? What made you conclude that such being exists specifically in a way like this?
@Drago19930713 oh and hay, u need to click on "reply" to me so that I can get ur reply. i only got one reply out of about 4 u typed.
anyway, God is The Ever Living. who nos what God did before and what he will do after. that is up to Him. u say "what did he used to do before?jack off?". i think u think that God is like a human being with 2 arms a head, a body and 2 legs with sexual desires.
no.
God does NOT look like ANY of His creation. He is far far far far superor. (cont)
@nafism6969 Haha... Well, ''jack off?'' was a hypothetical question. But after all, we did create god in our own image and likeness, so anythings possible in theories like this, haha... Actually, I dont think god as anything. First of all, because I DONT KNOW. IF god existed, I'd imagine him entirely different than any religion describes him...
@Drago19930713 question. yes, God DOES no everything. BUT, that doesnt mean He CONTROLS ppls actions. why? let me give u another example. suppose a student has classes for 3 years before a major exam where he will either fail or pass. the teacher observes the behaviour and actions of this student over the 3 yr period. now, student X is often rude, misses classes and homework, doesnt study enough, and wastes time. the teacher tries his best to do what he can and teaches. now, after the 2nd (cont
@Drago19930713 yr it becomes clear to the teacher in that student X is just not going to pass no matter what he does. its just way too late. student X is not up to the required standards, so he will fail. can u turn around and say to the teacher "Its your fault for student X failing! YOU knew all along that he was going to fail and look!! he failed! its YOUR fault".
is that right ? no.
its the student's ACTIONS that have led to him failing. the teacher KNEW, but its not his fault! (cont)
@Drago19930713 similarly, God KNOWS. yes. but its MY fault if i fail, and its MY benefit if I succeed.
I hope that helps?
God tells us in the Koran that He does not need us to worship Him. its entirely for OUR benefit if we do.
He created us, if He wanted us to do naked summersaults, then we would have to do it. if He wanted us to eat hot lava, we would have to do it. but He does not want us to do that. He just wants us to follow His Law. the Koran.
@Drago19930713 I no as much about God as any other muslim nos about God. I no as much about God as God Himself has revealed to mankind through His last and final Prophet, prophet Muhammad. ur right, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. and these were provided in the lifetimes of many prophets because prophets underwent severe forms of harship and rejection from their own ppl who did not want to belive initially.
now tho, God has already sent his final prophet to warn (cont)
@Drago19930713 mankind of their heedlessness. and thus, the "extraordinary" examples that u want to c have been limited or stopped. I will give u one example. when prophet Musa (or Moses) was fleeing Pharoah (the tyrant), he came across sea and he thought him and his handful of followers would be killed by Pharoah's men, but God had parted the ocean water so that Moses and his followers were able to cross it and flee from Pharoah. now, u dont c that kind of stuff happening today u say? (cont)
@nafism6969 Do you really think, that story of Moses was literal? Oh, and other miracles... Well, David Coperfield made a train disappear. Was that a gods miracle? No... And I seriously doubt that girl would actually cry diamonds... Well, biologists and chemists could explain this better. But, of course, these so called miracles are good for propaganda, false justifying.
@Drago19930713 firslty, yes. the story of Moses is literal. it is real. it happened. and uno what else? heres another miracle for you, when Pharoah and his army approached the open sea, Pharoah was STILL arrogant, and instead of being thoughful he proceeded to chase after Moses through the open sea out of anger. when Moses had crossed, God put the sea back together and and Phraoah and his merry men had drowned. BUT, heres the miracle my friend, do u no that (cont)
@Drago19930713 Pharoahs body has been found by scientists after ...more than 2000 YEARS, in SPECTACULARLY intact position and is in display in a travelling museam for the world to c. look it up. and uno what else ? God told mankind in the Koran that because of Pharoah's arrogance and hatred towards the truth of Moses, God will humiliate Pharoah by preserving his body in the ocean and then bring it forth at a time later for the world to c. and look whats happening today. (cont)
Make them shorter. But good video.
npsari 3 weeks ago
Nice video again.. but atheists do point at the unprovable element of theology.
focusontheargument 3 weeks ago in playlist Uploaded videos
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Mee551able 1 month ago
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Mee551able 1 month ago
I've watched a few of this dorks videos... He's right on this one though.
TTut21 1 month ago
What a boring old fart Sami has become!
EarwiggoAgain 1 month ago
Disagreeing about god is in fact believing in a different god. Since there is no common frame of reference (IE a real god) then all we have is two separate and unique beliefs. Hence, one person is atheist to the other person's god.
comslave 1 month ago
@comslave Umm..Going by this "logic" if I read Dan Brown and you read Agatha Christie, from my perspective you read nothing at all and vice versa? So I think that argument is made just for the sake of arguing..
letsdebate1983 1 month ago
Oh Man!! You could have just summarized your video in one sentence.. "My god is true and your's is not and since I believe in my god I am not an atheist"...
It would be fun to hear how you explain basic mathematics to your kids. By the time you finish, your kid would have grown up and started having his own kids... "Premises, Apples and Oranges"?? Going by these bullshits, You are probably an MBA dropout..
letsdebate1983 1 month ago
you redject all consepts of deities except one and I just redject one more. I fail to see how that would be any diffrent then saying ,,you redject all deities except one and I just redject one more,,.
you are just playing with words
karikon11 1 month ago
Muslims claim that we're all muslims, we have it written on our forehead but stupid people have lost their ways, lol.
halflifeproductionz 1 month ago
Follow this hypothetical scenario
You believe in Allah
Allah is nothing more than Muhammad's imagination hence not real
The real god is Eashwar from the Vedas
You do not believe in Eashwar hence you have no belief in (the actual) god
Hence you are an atheist
The claim is not supposed to go beyond this. Atheist are not saying you lack belief in a god. So your video was nothing but a strawman!
"Atheists are half muslims" - LOL, many muslims do make that cute and silly and meaningless claim
captaindisguise 1 month ago 8
Hi Sami You are mad
CorporalNym 1 month ago
Amazing..A Muslim with an original thought? Nah didn't think soo...
3550100 2 months ago
Sooooo if the prevailing religions of our time were Norse gods or the Polynesian mud gods, and Islam was a tiny religion practiced by a few - would you not be atheist in the popular view? You'd be considered a cultist...There are so many levels between theist and atheist, that the labeling of your own belief system is just intellectually shortchanging yourself.
rogan71 2 months ago
another smart man on youtube!
urantiruslan 2 months ago in playlist More videos from SamiZaatari
This only holds water if you only compare Christians and Muslims, or other monotheists. Most religions throughout history, however, have been folk religions, where they would not reject one another's gods the way Christians and Muslims do. You begin by rejecting any being but God, with arguments that could just as easily be turned to all gods.
IoEstasCedonta 2 months ago
You are 100% right but you do miss the point. It usually answers the question "Why do you reject god" in that context we all reject a god, we just go one step further and remove one last god. You are being tripped up on the fact that he adds "We are all athiest" but that is not really the argument he puts foward.
CapQuacer 3 months ago
@CapQuacer
""we all reject a god, we just go one step further and remove one last god""
Such subtleties often elude him ;).
Seymour13 3 months ago
When a Christian and a Muslim debate theology, it reminds me of when I was a kid and I would debate with my friends who would win in a real fight, Optimus Prime or Megatron... That would be epic! Or how about Zeus and Odin? That would be pretty cool too. People of faith are arguing on the basis on non-facts. Proven, scientific facts!
grekounas 4 months ago 4
@grekounas terminator vs robocop. :)
SamiZaatari 4 months ago
@SamiZaatari Got to go with Terminator... time travelling cyborg that can't seem to die FTW! Somewhat like a Jewish Zombie Jesus ;)
grekounas 4 months ago
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1990PatMorrison 1 month ago
@SamiZaatari The point was you don't believe in the existence of their gods. Islam describes a very specific god and this is not the same as that of the Hindus. This argument would only be valid if you were debating another follower of the Abrahamic religion and the argument that you're arguing for the existence of a creator would only hold any Merritt in a deistic perspective
1990PatMorrison 1 month ago
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BOGnz 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Atheism is a rejection of god claims
A Christian rejects all claims of gods except for Jesus
A Muslim rejects all claims of gods except for Muhammad
An Atheist rejects all claims of all gods.
So would a Christian and a Muslim both agree that Zeus exists or would they say that they didn't believe Zeus exists? If so then they are atheist towards Zeus.
Seems simple enough to me.
percyth11 5 months ago
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percyth11 5 months ago
Jesus extra extra :DDDD
saaramalik 5 months ago
There's definitely a case in favour of a 'belief scale'.
Quite clearly, the polytheists are the least atheist of all people. Because they accept the existence of the most number of Gods.
People who don't believe in any Gods, are the most atheist.
Somewhere between these two ends, are the muslims and christians. who only believe in one god. Not quite atheist, but there's a lot of Gods that they don't believe in. So, I propose a new word for those who reject all gods but one: 'Apolytheist'.
6Untitled9 6 months ago
i'm not a 'A'theist
i'm a 'B'theist
KanyeTroll 6 months ago
The basic problem with your critique of the statement "We are all atheists" is a problem of definition. Atheism isn't a "rejection" of god. Atheism is a lack of faith in a god or a group of gods. Since a Muslim believes in Allah but not in any of the Hindu gods, a Muslim is an atheist from a Hindu standpoint. The basic premise of atheism is not "there is no god". The basic premise is "since there is no evidence of any gods, there is no good reason to believe".
TADahar 6 months ago
yep, ur right on this one too...
Atheist = A person who does not believe in the existence of God or gods;
:\
Deeredman4 6 months ago
Well, atheism can only exist by relying and having God to deny.
klaassart 6 months ago
When you think about it and, you don't have think too hard. You'll realise that the person who came up with this argument, was trying to make you think.
6Untitled9 6 months ago 19
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@6Untitled9 yeah, and when you think of it, you realise the statement is a pile of rubbish.
SamiZaatari 6 months ago
@SamiZaatari So you are saying you believe in Zues?
asflagg 6 months ago
It's Dawkins, not Dawkings. That is your first glaring error, is it really worth continuing to point out the rest? Rambling fool.
MrTheglovner 7 months ago
@MrTheglovner i said dawkins. baboon.
SamiZaatari 7 months ago
@SamiZaatari
Sure didn't sound like it. Stop mumbling then.
MrTheglovner 7 months ago
@SamiZaatari
Your train of thought is more tangled than the flying spaghetti monsters noodly appendages.
"This argument is completely rubbish. I mean, the person who came up with this argument; was trying too think to fast, and was trying to be too smart, and when that happens, you often make silly mistakes."
Can you say, Ironnnny!
MrTheglovner 7 months ago
@SamiZaatari if u wear black hat and hold taurat u look pure Yahudi =))
saaramalik 5 months ago
There can be different definitions of atheist in encyclopedias:
- DISBELIEF in the existence of one or more deitys;
- DENIAL of the existence of God or gods and of any supernatural existence;
- one who BELIEVES that there is NO deity;
You can believe in the Christian God but reject/deny/disbelieve in Jesus as a God even tough they are(suppose to be) of the same nature. Or perhaps you can point out Zeus as an miss interpreted Allah and reject the existence of all the others (Poseidon, Hades...)
ZZzzzzzWhat 7 months ago
doesnt make sense for a second, dawkins is an idiot
SPEAKTRUTHALWAYS 7 months ago
You're taking the statement way too seriously. Your treating a whip-smart, catchy one-liner as a serious argument.
BoggiD101 7 months ago
Dawkin's doesn't use this as a serious argument, its more of a play on words. He is well aware of the distinction between an atheist and a theist and everything in between. You made a whole video about pretty much nothing. lol.
ivymansion 7 months ago 12
so before you wana go acting like you know everything I suggest you go do some research for yourself before you make such bad bad bad bad terrible arguments
هههههههههههههه حلوه يا سامي بارك الله فيك ونفع بك
saudiflag3000 7 months ago
@assfaggot No, I said hang yourself.
JackSparrowDepp 7 months ago
Atheism is pr definition the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. So when you reject all the thousands of other gods of other mythologies and religions you are doing exactly the same thing as atheists, and for the very same reason also, it`s just that people who call themselves atheists reject one god more than you..
unlyckystrike 7 months ago
Sami, I think you still not understand the argument. What "we are all atheists" means is that we all feel the same about the other people's god. What you don't understand is that even atheist doesn'T claim that there is no cause to universe (which you call "god"). Atheist have this question open.
Don't tell me that you have a single nanogram of faith in Vishnu or Ahura Mazda. You feel EXACTLY the same about them than me!!! Christian/muslim debates are only debates on the same god's definition.
KaonNeutre 7 months ago 20
@KaonNeutre There’s no “other people’s god”. If there's a God, he's the Creator of all: Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims...
Sky has one word in Arabic, another in Polish, then yet another in German. It's the same sky.
rollingklouds 6 months ago
@rollingklouds > ["There’s no “other people’s god”. If there's a God, he's the Creator of al"]
If everything was created by supernatural agency. Without objective evidence. You're no more entitled to attribute creation to a single author, then anyone else claiming that there are a pantheon of gods on the project.
Unlike God, which only exists conceptually. The sky is real and has an external frame of reference. One need only point, to convey the meaning of the word for sky in any language.
6Untitled9 6 months ago
@6Untitled9 The moment you say 'gods', none is. Because, Infinity is indivisible. If there is an author, there is only one, uniquely one.
>>Without objective evidence....
God is not an object we can compare anything with. Every object is finite, and are all objects together. Only thing that is not, is the Originator of objects.
The sky may be real to you; unreal to those who don't see it, or has no faculty to see it.
rollingklouds 6 months ago
@rollingklouds > [ "The moment you say 'gods', none is."]
Well that's your rule. It might fit your conception of god. But It doesn't fit everybody's concept of god. You're going to have to prove that the god who fits your definition actually exists, before you're entitled to claim precedence of your god over anyone else's.
["The sky may be real to you; unreal to those who don't see it,"]
Don't be silly!
["God is not an object "]
Agreed! God is a concept, That only exists in the imagination.
6Untitled9 6 months ago
@6Untitled9 >You're going to have to prove that the god who fits your definition actually exists
No, I don't. On the contrary, it is you who has to prove that whatever you believe exists exists for eternity.
If it didn't, whatever existed before that, call X, Y, God or whatever, is the One.
It doesn't have to be a theological concept; but you cannot avoid that reality.
Prove to me that matter existed for eternity.
-Something is not a tangible object doesn't mean it's only a concept.
rollingklouds 6 months ago
@rollingklouds > [ "-Something is not a tangible object doesn't mean it's only a concept." ]
I never suggested otherwise.
The supernatural agents called God or Gods as depicted in the religions of the world. Are a specific category of concepts called fiction, or mythology, which does not describe real things. Included in this category are angels, demons, fairies, elves, mermaids, unicorns etc.
Unlike the scientific concept; The 'electron'. Whose testable working model, proves that it's real.
6Untitled9 6 months ago
@rollingklouds > [ "No, I don't." ]
Fine! In that case we don't have to take your version of God seriously.
>["On the contrary, it is you who has to prove that whatever you believe exists..."]
I have to prove that the universe exists?
>["..exists for eternity."]
Oh!..So.According to 'you'. If I can't prove that the universe existed for eternity. Then your God, who 'you' say is eternal, must be true?
Well, the universe has existed for all time. Will that do?
6Untitled9 6 months ago
@rollingklouds > [ "Prove to me that matter existed for eternity." ]
Actually this is a potential opportunity for the theists to get a supernatural foot in the door so to speak.
Energy and matter are the same thing, they are interchangeable, ( E = mc2). The 'law of conservation of energy' states that energy can neither be created or destroyed. So, if you can prove that this law of nature was violated at the 'big bang' or anytime since. You may have a case to posit a supernatural intervention.
6Untitled9 6 months ago
@6Untitled9
How can Law of nature be violated before the nature came into existence?
Energy and mass are indeed 2 sides of the same coin. However, as long as either phase is time-bound, it's finite. 'Conservation of energy' cannot happen before the creation of mass or energy.
Time is the space between two events; no event, no time. There was neither time, nor laws of nature to break.
Only Infinity is timeless. Matter, energy & time are all finite.
They can never, ever be eternal!
rollingklouds 5 months ago
@rollingklouds > ["How can Law of nature be violated before the nature came into existence?"]
I don't know!.... It all sounds very supernatural to me. To be honest, I can't make sense of anything you wrote in your last post.
Anyway! I don't know why you're asking me that. The ball's in your court. I'm the one who doesn't believe nature was created. Remember?
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 It's really simple. Universe/nature did not/ could not exist for eternity. Because the universe/nature is finite (as it it composed of finite masses, and because it involves time), it has to have a beginning.
If the universe did not exist for eternity (basic math, really), it had to come from something, right?
That something can only be infinite, because it is infinite, it can be only one. Why, because, there cannot be more than one infinity.
That is the Creator. No way out of it.
rollingklouds 5 months ago
@rollingklouds > ["Universe/nature did not/ could not exist for eternity. "]
Why not?
> ["t had to come from something, right?"]
Not necessarily. According to observation and measurements carried out by real scientists. The total mass and energy in the universe, (when taking gravity into account, which acts as negative energy), adds up to zero. So yes, it is possible to get a universe from nothing.
>["That is the Creator. No way out of it."]
It does not follow, that infinity is a creator.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 Since when 0 is infinity? If I accept that argument, an equilibrium of forces does not produce infinity. Nor does it mean it does not involve time.
Anytime a “phase” happens, time happens. Before the Big Bang, you may say though, there was no time. But there was ‘finity’, as the primordial mass contained all the finite objects of the universe we see. So, it was not finite, and so, it is impossible for it to exist for eternity and become infinity.
I hope that explains my point.
rollingklouds 5 months ago
@rollingklouds >["Since when 0 is infinity?"]
At the beginning.
You start with zero, then you start counting and you keep counting forever. Thats's what infinity is, it's a mathematical abstract. One that's curiously consistent with the data we have for our universe. It started with zero, it began expanding and is continuing to expand, at an ever increasing rate.
The trouble with your argument. Is that you've given an abstract concept, abilities and desires that just suit your beliefs.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 Infinity is NOT a number.
Neither 0 is infinity, nor counting on for a trillion years will yield you Infinity.
Dividing 1 by 0, as in 1/0 does not give you that either, you may write ∞, but it's nothing. You are mixing up. If you add trillions or subtract the same, you'll neither increase nor decrease it.
For starter, look this up on youtube:
Is Infinity A Number? BBC
rollingklouds 5 months ago
@rollingklouds > [ "Infinity is NOT a number." ]
I don't dispute that.
What I am disputing. Is your claim, that infinity is somehow a sentient, autonomous agent, that decided to create the universe.
Let's be clear. I'm not the one claiming special, magical properties for the concept, infinity.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 >I don't dispute that
But you did. You wrote: ..."keep counting forever. Thats's what infinity is."
You can't prove that the universe CAN exist forever. My point was exactly this: If you can't prove that the universe existed for ever, something had to be there before it, which CANNOT be a “thing”. Whatever that is, that is “It”; -the non-finite Creator. YOU prove the eternity of the universe.
Don't ask me, - I don't have that many fingers.
rollingklouds 5 months ago
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@rollingklouds >["But you did. You wrote: ..."keep counting forever. Thats's what infinity is."]
Yes! It means that once you start counting there is no theoretical limit to how long....Oh never mind.
>["the non-finite Creator."]
There's no evidence for that. The universe in its present form, most likely came into existence by natural means.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
Comment removed
rollingklouds 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 2nd part-
>It does not follow, that infinity is a creator.
Eliminate the world of matter, since it did not exist for ever. It's a simple method of deduction. If the answer is not found in the finite world, it is the Infinity.
It is, The He, or The It.
The Creator, the Originator, The Eternal, The Truth, The First and the Last.
There's nothing like It.
Angry? Disappointed?
: )
Please, think, even if it takes time to set in.
rollingklouds 5 months ago
@rollingklouds > [ "Angry? Disappointed?"]
Why would you even think that?
You're perfectly entitled to speculate on the state of the universe 'prior' to the BB. You may even credit your particular brand of deity as the 'originator' if you wish.
But, it has no bearing on the universe as we find it. Everything since the BB can be accounted for within current physical models, who's immense utility is testament to their veracity.
Science presents other pre BB hypotheses. I will wait and see.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@KaonNeutre did you here him dude. THE PREMISE IS DIFFERENT. muslims DON"T REJECT CHRISTIAN GOD. THEY DIFFER IN THE NATURE OF GOD. THE NATURE. You contradict yourself.
Hindu scriptures preach ONE GOD. Read it for yourself. That just destroys your entire argument man
muslimgiga 6 months ago
@muslimgiga The Brahman is not a personal god. And in the beginning of the universe (Hindus style), Brahman create the universe, Vishnu keep it going and Shiva destroy it. Muslims accuse christians to be polytheists because of the trinity, you have to twist things very much to believe that hindus are monotheists...
KaonNeutre 6 months ago
@KaonNeutre so did you read the veda's?I'm guessing not. Because your knowledge of Hinduism looks like its from wikipedia.
PS: bible says NOTHING about the trinity.
muslimgiga 6 months ago
@muslimgiga Oh then I guess the whole world should refer to you to learn real knowledge. Because YOU know. Hindus don't know nor the christians. Thanks man to keep me far from the rest of the world that run away from your reality, the only one that seems to exist.
KaonNeutre 6 months ago
@KaonNeutre GO to college and study comparative religion. Your really speaking out of your butt. I know many hindu's and they think belief in 2000 gods is BS so you know what they usually do?
a/They try reading the scriptures
b/The scriptures are so complicated and long that they give up
c/Then they become "rationals" like you
muslimgiga 6 months ago
@muslimgiga Yep. "rational"... so they reject evolution taught in college because they can't reject their faith. Never heard of...
KaonNeutre 5 months ago
@KaonNeutre so what you consider "rational" is rational and religion is stupid and irrational? I think believing in an imaginary thing up in the sky is more plausible that believing in pokemon style evolution and that somehow denying the fact that there IS some imaginary thing in the sky. Makes NO sense to me.
muslimgiga 5 months ago
@muslimgiga > ["...denying the fact that there IS some imaginary thing in the sky. Makes NO sense to me."]
Calling an imaginary thing in the sky, a fact, shouldn't make sense to anybody.
Imaginary things, by definition, are not real.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 that's your definition of God. I don't consider Him imaginary or fake. But you do. So your assertion is pretty terrible.
muslimgiga 5 months ago
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@muslimgiga >["that's your definition of God."]
Why did you use it? I was quoting your own post.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@muslimgiga I think religion hinder people to be objective. There is no way you can know if you are wrong or not if you are not objective. That's all. Religions are messing up the whole humanity for that. Because religious people can't be objective enough about their religion to notice when is wrong. So normal good people do evil things.
Evolution has nothing to do with religion. It's just because your beliefs go against it that you stay in your creepy ignorance.
KaonNeutre 5 months ago
@KaonNeutre your saying evolution goes against the islamic concept of creation? of man yes or anything else no.
But now that you mention it, your saying religion is messing up humanity when for millions of years people have been following religion. NOW in the 21st century the world is more messed up that EVER BEFORE. Cus of religion? WWII cus of RELIGION? no. You have it wrong buddy.
muslimgiga 5 months ago
@muslimgiga "of man yes or anything else no"
cool, that's a good start. The fact is that evolution doesn't care about religions. It's only builded from a long process of OBSERVATIONS which OBJECTIVELY LEAD to the concept of evolution. That's all!
Religions messing-up the world today because all religions are sold like the absolute truth and hinder people to be objective. It has messed-up in the past because it was one of the reason to conquer (christians/muslims/todays-jews).
KaonNeutre 5 months ago
@muslimgiga It mess also because all the shit like excision and circumcision (genital mutilations), slavery acceptance (proof that religion are man-made). And so much other reasons...
KaonNeutre 5 months ago
@muslimgiga > ["when for millions of years people have been following religion."]
Millions of years? How many millions of years?
The earliest archeological evidence for humans is only 200 000 yrs. And we only began migrating out of Africa about 70 000 years ago. Your religion is only 1400 yrs old and the earliest monotheism perhaps 3000yrs.
If you just make stuff up. No one will take what you say seriously. Check on your facts before you quote figures that can be easily referenced.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 how can you prove that a civilization was monotheistic? What statue or archaeological "evidence" can you find?
Just because science advances it deny's God? What type of "mind" or "cognitive skill" do you have you explain the universe with it's perfectness as a big "WOW THAT WAS EASY".
talk about rational thought. Atheists are hypocrites of their own argument.
muslimgiga 5 months ago
@muslimgiga >["how can you prove that a civilization was monotheistic? What statue or archaeological "evidence" can you find?"]
Zoroastrianism. Look it up, educate yourself. Founded in Persia a thousand years before the Arabs came along with Islam.
>["do you have you explain the universe with it's perfectness as a big"]
Religion doesn't tell you anything about the universe, because it doesn't know anything. It's just an idea that infects your brain and makes you its slave.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 hehe persian zoroastrianism worships fire. LMAOF records of it exist, it has a book. My question is about a MUCH earlier time such as some of the earliest civilizations. You don't have any records or books.
and your 2nd assertion is exactly that, an assertion. How are you "intelligent" because your not religious? Christopher Hitchens is an alcoholic. Not exactly an intelligent life style HAHA. Don't use religion for your morality then, AT ALL. Why is it wrong to rape people? lmaof.
muslimgiga 5 months ago
@muslimgiga > [" How are you "intelligent" because your not religious?" ]
Listen to yourself! Read the stuff you're writing now. It's all over the place. That's called cognitive dissonance. It's what happens when the 'religion virus' in your brain is threatened by reason.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@6Untitled9 i meant to say "more intelligent" You know your the typical atheist on youtube with winding arguments. Here let me end this.
Issac Newton believed in a God. Reconcile that.
STAY ON TOPIC or else i am out of this discussion. Kudos :)
muslimgiga 5 months ago
@muslimgiga > ["Issac Newton believed in a God. Reconcile that."]
I don't have a problem with that. 400yrs ago almost everyone believed in god.
He didn't believe in your god though, did he. Because he took away one of your gods jobs, didn't he. Previously God took care of moving the planets around and holding us on the ground. Now we know it's not God that does that, it's gravity.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@muslimgiga > ["Atheist belief is REJECTION and all about IGNORING the world."]
Not true. No one ignores the world like believers. Whose slave minds are firmly fixed on the false promise of a hereafter.
Your Allah, does not fit the facts. By examining the world using science, he's been put out of a job. He's not needed to explain anything. Hence. Atheism, (no belief), is the default position.
Thanks for visiting my channel muslimgiga. But it's best keep our discussion here, in one place.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
@muslimgiga >["What's gravity? please elaborate. What does gravity look like? How big is it? What does it smell like?"]
Can you answer any of those questions about God? I can prove gravity is real.
>["Gravity is part of the system God designed."]
Is that a fact? Could you explain how God designed it? or by any chance; Tell us what materials he used to make it? Where did the stuff come from? Was it magic? or was it already lying around, to be picked up and put together.
6Untitled9 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@assfaggot Go hang yourself. That will be your greatest contribution to humanity,
JackSparrowDepp 8 months ago
@assfaggot According to your logic yes, I was a hindu when I was born just like any other person. If you don't like my attitude stop writing bullshit and go educate yourself. Specifically take some logic courses.
JackSparrowDepp 8 months ago
@assfaggot The problem is that you are dumb, no other problem. Atheism is the rejection of the belief in the existence of ANY deity. Hence a christian cannot be an atheist with respect to any other belief because he doesn't reject the existence of any deity. At the end of the day he believes to his own god. If you rip apart that definition then with the same logic it can be said that we are all hindus. I feel ashamed that I lower myself to your level to explain elementary stuff. Try to get it.
JackSparrowDepp 8 months ago
@JackSparrowDepp "Hence a christian cannot be an atheist with respect to any other belief because he doesn't reject the existence of any deity"
RE
Do you believe that Zeus is the father of the gods (after his parents died anyway)? Greek mythology teaches that Zeus was above all the many gods.
Do you believe that's true, or was true in the past? Or are you a DISBELIEVER? Do you accept or reject that those Greek beliefs are the ultimate truth, and all other religions are false?
OptimisticCynic715 7 months ago
@OptimisticCynic715 OMG another clown! Follow what I wrote here to assfagot and you'll get eveything.
JackSparrowDepp 7 months ago
@JackSparrowDepp "Follow what I wrote here to assfagot and you'll get eveything"
"there's no such term as "being an atheist in respect to someone". "
RE
So you do believe Zeus is the father of the Gods. You do not reject that, or any of the other myths people believe. You have faith that every religion is true, including the pre-Islamic idols at Mecca, and all the local nature spirits of indigenous religions. You are not a disbeliever in any way, shape or form.
OptimisticCynic715 7 months ago
@OptimisticCynic715 Are you and idiot?
JackSparrowDepp 7 months ago
@assfaggot You keep proving that you are stupid. According to your logic a Christian is an atheist with respect to Islam because he doesn't believe in Islam. Then a Christian is also a hindu with respect to Islam because a hindu also doesn't believe in Islam. You created a new term for atheism with respect to others, and I using your logic created a new term "hindu with respect to others". Get it already.
JackSparrowDepp 8 months ago
@assfaggot LOL there's no such term as "being an atheist in respect to someone". With the same logic we can say that a christian is a hindu in respect to Allah because hindu doesn't believe in Allah. Take some logic courses and stop embarassing yourself.
JackSparrowDepp 8 months ago
@assfaggot LOL you furthermore prove that you are dumb as hell. If you assume that a Muslim or a Christian can be considered to be an atheist, then by the same logic a Muslim or Christian must be consideres to be a hindu. You said that atheism is a lack of belief in god but both Muslim and Christian believe in god (or gods).
JackSparrowDepp 8 months ago
@assfaggot You are dumb as hell, do you wanna me prove that? A hindu doesn't believe in Christianity and any other religion except Hinduism. So according to your logic we are all Hindus because we are in the same position as Hindus in regard to other beliefs. Go educate yourself.
JackSparrowDepp 8 months ago
You're arguing semantics by stating that Theists use the same premise. You're inferring that no other religion throughout history has believed in a different God(s). Some have seen Him as a single God and others as a multitude. but they've simply had conceptual differences of the same being.
You ultimately deny the existence of the Hindu Gods. Stating they are just a conceptual difference from the God you believe in is projecting your beliefs onto an entire religion.
TheMors666 8 months ago
may God bless you man :+)
bootyhunter12 8 months ago
lol
Sarahon06 8 months ago
@Sarahon06 :)
SamiZaatari 8 months ago
dear brother sami... may Allah almighty bless you for serving Islam....I still could not understand the meaning of the word "Atheists". Please make me clear its meaning in simple english
zuhaibmzk 8 months ago
Yes, i understand the point you make here Sami.
I think the reason people like Dawkins make this argument is because of the numbers of theists (Christians are by far the worst here) who seem blind to the fact that there could be even any other options than atheism or their specific faith - or at least they argue as if this was the case.
You make the case yourself that when an atheist and a theist argue they are disagreeing about the very existence of a deity at all, unfortunately many....
noelplum99 8 months ago
@noelplum99
...of your fellow theists just don't seem to get that - they cannot seperate the scientific and philosophical levels from the specifics of mythological specifics of their faith (I don't use the word mythological in a derogatory sense here, just to mean 'traditional stories about gods')
noelplum99 8 months ago
I think you've missed the point of the argument. As far as I can tell, it's from Stephen Roberts. Have you heard the rest of the quote? "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." This puts the argument in a different light.
RickySTT 8 months ago
@RickySTT
But its still not true. Because I don't reject the other gods for the same reason that he does.
DawahFilms 7 months ago
What utter nonsense! The atheist perspective is a negation not a proposition. The point being there is no evidence for YOUR or any God existing....You ARE an atheist is terms of Zeus or in polytheistic religions....You know as well as I do the the biggest sin in Islam is to take another God over Allah....So how does this not make you the very definition of an atheist in regards to other god's?
rogan71 8 months ago
Dawkins really said this? lolwtf. Just read to him what the definition of theism is.
It states that a theist is one who believes in the existence of A GOD or GODS. It says "a god" right? Even though christians might reject a muslim God they still believe in A God. So his arguement is invalid.
...unless Dawkins wants to argue against the dictionary too.
tharwpoop 8 months ago
mashallah nice video
fahadshippuden 8 months ago
The thing is: this argument is in response to the accusation that atheism is a religion. Yet you never address that. You are a non-christian, calling that a religion is as stupid as calling atheism a religion. Instead of calling you a muslim I could call you an achristian? Then claim that is a religion? Welcome to the Church of Achristianity! Do you collect butterflies? No? Then your hobby is non-butterfly-collecting. You keep creating strawmen with your videos, by misrepresenting others.
NucularRobit 8 months ago
@NucularRobit - 1 - you make some good points with reinforce brother Sami Zaatari's video. it is the atheists who are arguing that everyone is an atheist. this is silly, absurd, stupid, ridiculous, and nonsensical. the fact that Sami had to repeat this simple point over and over again...yet so many people are still on here defending that view - shows how utterly stupid some atheists can be.
Mr1Fox9 8 months ago
@Mr1Fox9 You missed the point again... The claim that all theists are atheists is in response to saying that atheism is a religion because they universally disbelieve in god. The counter argument is that all non-christians could be called Achristians instead of their respective religion. Atheists are not actually claiming that all religions are atheist, they are pointing out the logical fallacy of calling them a religion.
NucularRobit 8 months ago
@NucularRobit - religion can be defined in many different ways. atheism - less so. if u really stretch out the definition, then sure, this counter-argument works. but really that is just playing word games. it comes down to the definition of things really. and u don't need a mistaken argument to counter another mistaken argument. calling someone an atheist is very different from saying they are achristian. atheism is not a religion...it is a form of polytheism (from our perspective).
Mr1Fox9 8 months ago
@NucularRobit - 2 - based on the definition of atheism that atheists themselves use...are cannot and are not all atheists. however, based on the meaning and definition of *shirk* that Muslims use - atheists are polytheists (mushrikeen) as are agnostics and almost all other faiths and ideologies. this is from an Islamic perspective and based on Islamic terms and definitions.
Mr1Fox9 8 months ago
@udaykc
Do you know why he is repeating himself for 10 minutes? Because every time he proves anything, people continue to spread falsehood.
Sandzak95 8 months ago
@Sandzak95 How will repeating a small point for 10 minutes help in this case? Will it stop people from spreading falsehood? No, on the contrary the people who spread falsehood will still spread falsehood. But by making such verbose videos with minimal content Sami is alienating a large number of smart and rational listeners and he will just be left with the run-of-the-mill firebrand extremists as his listeners. And repeating his point for 100 mins will also have no effect on those guys.
udaykc 8 months ago
@udaykc
2 minutes are not going to change anything if you think so too.
Sandzak95 8 months ago
@Sandzak95 You will be surprised and how effective concise messages can be. On the other hand verbose messages without commensurate content is much more likely to be perceived simply as a rant.
udaykc 8 months ago
@udaykc hahaha, that's why many atheists are actually making points I ADDRESSED ON VIDEO? maybe if some of you were bright enough to understand me the first time I wouldn't need to repeat myself, heck, did you miss the part where i explained why i repeat myself? lollll, my good god some people are stupid.
SamiZaatari 8 months ago
Comment removed
udaykc 8 months ago
@SamiZaatari Lol! Just because you realize that you are making too many reps doesn't make it any better. It's a youtube video for Allah's sake. No matter how stupid anyone is they can always go back listen to your points again. I'm sorry to say, by repeating a simple point so many times you are simply making yourself appear stupid. It appears as if you have nothing else to say but you still wish to have a 10 mins video. Brevity is the soul of wit and verbosity is like the iniquity of idolatry.
udaykc 8 months ago
@udaykc no, it's because some of your fellow comrades are stupid that i have to repeat myself, your a case in point.
SamiZaatari 8 months ago
@SamiZaatari Hahaha, clearly you are running out of defense. Ad hominen attacks is the lowest form of debate and you would do well if you remember it. Secondly, you are making many assumptions about me. Again not a sign of a good debater. Finally, make sure you look up the difference between "your" and "you're". Lol, it's amusing to see you call other people stupid.
udaykc 8 months ago
@udaykc tell me how far have you gotten in life with being so smart to spell your and you're? your so proud of yourself because of that, HA. and no, calling a stupid person stupid is not an ad-hominem if the person being called stupid is indeed proven to have been stupid.
SamiZaatari 8 months ago
@SamiZaatari More ad hominems. Clearly you have a lot to learn. And what has my life got to do with it anyway, either way I have gotten really far in my life both academically and in terms of my accomplishments. Thank you for asking. Calling names is a clear sign of weak intellect under any circumstance. And in this case you haven't proven anyone to be stupid, so your case is far worse. The main problem is that you have make a very wrong presumption about your audience.
udaykc 8 months ago
@udaykc what accomplishments, maybe your famous, and i can get your autograph and show off to people that i argued with you.
SamiZaatari 8 months ago
@SamiZaatari I don't want to discuss my résumé here, but god willing if we meet someday and I'd be more than happy to discuss my work and accomplishments. Being in science I'm not really well known outside scientific circles. The media is interested in my work only if it sounds flashy enough for a title :), but that's how media works.
udaykc 8 months ago
@SamiZaatari You seem to have deleted my first message. I had seen comments from other people saying that you delete comments if you don't like them. I initially didn't believe them, but now I know that they were right. My comment was not abusive or crass. It was also well received by your other viewers with at least 6 thumbs up. But you still deleted it and it doesn't reflect well on you. Either way, I listened to your most recent video and you did a much better job with that one.
udaykc 8 months ago
Do you realize that the "Jewish God", "Christian God", and "Muslim God" are one and the same? (i.e. the "God" of Abraham) Thus, Christians do not reject the Muslim God and vice versa (as you claim). Also, in theory, the main Hindu God "Brahman" (from which all their other deities are manifested) can be equated to this "God" as well. I agree with what you are saying, but hope you realize that "God" is the same in all these religions.
BachScholar 8 months ago
@BachScholar - that is not exactly true. the christians take Jesus as an incarnation of God (or a separate deity that is said to be of the progeny of God). both jews and muslims reject this. while much more similar, the attributes of God according to jews and muslims also differ. the unified God of brahman that some hindus believe in is also ultimately different. in Islam, God is the most unique. other faiths attempt to unify God (which contradicts complete uniqueness).
Mr1Fox9 8 months ago
no, we don't do this for a sake of an audience. at the same time, it is obligatory to seek out an audience. i know that sounds like a contradiction - but think about it a little bit more, and you'll see that it actually is not.
Mr1Fox9 8 months ago
عندما تقرأ لملحد تعليق ..فقط أي تعليق وترى مدى سخافة هذه الافكار التي والله لا استطيع حتى ان اسميها افكار حيوانيه لأن الحيونات تسبح الله وحده ..فعندما ترى تعليق لملحد ...اسجد لله سجود شكر لأنك مسلم ..وقل الحمد لله على نعمة الإسلام
جزاك الله خير اخي سامي على ما تقدمه من مجهود لخدمة الإسلام واسأل الله الكريم رب العرش العظيم أن يجعل ذلك في موازين حسناتك
saudiflag3000 8 months ago
God exists.
dont b an arrogant human being. u were born from ur fathers penis and ejected out of ur mothers vagina.
u think God does nt exist? u r best and the highest ??
grow up.
peace.
nafism6969 8 months ago
@nafism6969 Seriously? God exists? Where? Can you describe him to me? How does he look like, what does he do? Whats his philosophy? What was he doing BEFORE he created EVERYTHING?
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 yes. seriously. He resides on His magnificent throne (which is beyond human comprehension, in this life). He is The Creator, The First, The Last, The Eternal, The All-Aware, The All-Mighty, The Ever Living.
none of mankind or Jinn has seen Him in this life. He is screened by an immense and magnificnet shroud of light. man will see him in Heaven. Only Al-lah nos what He did before creating planet earth. thats up to Him. and only He will no what he does post Day of Judgement.
nafism6969 8 months ago
@nafism6969 Hmm... If no one ever saw him, how do you know all this stuff? How is he all-mighty, all-aware? How is he even slightly wise or smart?
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 u dont have to "see" something to no that something is there. do u c ur neighbours have sex? no. but i KNOW they have sex. what if someone said to me "hay, I saw ur neighbours have sex the other night". I didnt c it. but the chances of my witness speaking the truth is very high.
similarly, an Angel ( I forgot the name) brought Gods commands to prophet Muhammad and many other prophets before him. the Angels NEVER disbey God. they cant. but we can. we r humans. not Angels. (cont
nafism6969 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 He is All Mighty. look at ur self in the mirror. look at ur family. look at the whales, the sharks, trees, moon, sun, the solar system, planets, look at the human body. think about the air, sunlight, fire, wind, seas, did u create them?? do u not think that the One who created these cant also create Heaven, Hell, Angels, and anything that He pleases?
God is the The Most Wise. look at ur situation. what if He made u blind? what if He made you a retard? r u too (cont)
nafism6969 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 arrogant to even REALISE this (let alone thank Him)? no decision is made by God in vain. even the most destitute of persons on earth is saved from certain torments but is suffering others. ALL of mankind is suffering in one way or other. r u perfect ? no. God is. not u. no one is perfect but God. God is flawless, The Supreme. muslims r told (not sure whether our beloved prophet or the Koran says this) but we r told that if man was to COUNT the number of blessings (cont)
nafism6969 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 he/she has in his/her life, that person would NEVER finish counting God's blessings on him/her. NEVER. every breath u take is GIVEN to u by God. yet u deny Him? did u create air ??
who created air ? did u create the atmosphere?
u breath God's air, u eat from God's plants, yet...u too proud to admit that He even EXISTS, let alone worship Him.
think.
nafism6969 8 months ago
@nafism6969 Non of this still explains how you ''know'' so much stuff about god... And for what I am I thank my parents (for their decision not to use condom) it was their will to bring me here. My personality was formed because of influence of other people and information. So I dont really see where ''god'' comes in. Your examples regarding real life doesnt really reflect so something ''out of space'' here (god). Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. cont
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 Thing is, you will never be able to justify dogmas you preach. There is and there will never be evidence of supreme being like this. I bet you know the paradox of all-powerfulness. And another thing. You claim, that god created universe. Ok then, what was this being doing when there was NOTHING except him? Jack off? Don't think so... According to you, god existed FOREVER. Well. Why not skip a step and say- universe existed forever? cont.
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 Thing is, I DONT KNOW if such thing exists. And nor do you. Only difference between me and you is, that I can ADMIT that I dont know. And you pretend knowledge to feel better... So who has more arrogance, my friend? Personally, I think, IF being like this existed, it wouldn't judge us, nor it would reward us for things we do here... The only person who we can judge is ourselves. cont
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 So, I dont judge anyone for what they believe or think. I'm just asking questions and sharing my thoughts in hope, that it will make other people think. Thats my ''hobby'' so to speak. Any path you chose, will be yours. And why you chose it, share your thoughts? What made you conclude that such being exists specifically in a way like this?
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 oh and hay, u need to click on "reply" to me so that I can get ur reply. i only got one reply out of about 4 u typed.
anyway, God is The Ever Living. who nos what God did before and what he will do after. that is up to Him. u say "what did he used to do before?jack off?". i think u think that God is like a human being with 2 arms a head, a body and 2 legs with sexual desires.
no.
God does NOT look like ANY of His creation. He is far far far far superor. (cont)
nafism6969 8 months ago
@nafism6969 Haha... Well, ''jack off?'' was a hypothetical question. But after all, we did create god in our own image and likeness, so anythings possible in theories like this, haha... Actually, I dont think god as anything. First of all, because I DONT KNOW. IF god existed, I'd imagine him entirely different than any religion describes him...
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 question. yes, God DOES no everything. BUT, that doesnt mean He CONTROLS ppls actions. why? let me give u another example. suppose a student has classes for 3 years before a major exam where he will either fail or pass. the teacher observes the behaviour and actions of this student over the 3 yr period. now, student X is often rude, misses classes and homework, doesnt study enough, and wastes time. the teacher tries his best to do what he can and teaches. now, after the 2nd (cont
nafism6969 7 months ago
@Drago19930713 yr it becomes clear to the teacher in that student X is just not going to pass no matter what he does. its just way too late. student X is not up to the required standards, so he will fail. can u turn around and say to the teacher "Its your fault for student X failing! YOU knew all along that he was going to fail and look!! he failed! its YOUR fault".
is that right ? no.
its the student's ACTIONS that have led to him failing. the teacher KNEW, but its not his fault! (cont)
nafism6969 7 months ago
@Drago19930713 similarly, God KNOWS. yes. but its MY fault if i fail, and its MY benefit if I succeed.
I hope that helps?
God tells us in the Koran that He does not need us to worship Him. its entirely for OUR benefit if we do.
He created us, if He wanted us to do naked summersaults, then we would have to do it. if He wanted us to eat hot lava, we would have to do it. but He does not want us to do that. He just wants us to follow His Law. the Koran.
peace.
nafism6969 7 months ago
@Drago19930713 I no as much about God as any other muslim nos about God. I no as much about God as God Himself has revealed to mankind through His last and final Prophet, prophet Muhammad. ur right, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. and these were provided in the lifetimes of many prophets because prophets underwent severe forms of harship and rejection from their own ppl who did not want to belive initially.
now tho, God has already sent his final prophet to warn (cont)
nafism6969 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 mankind of their heedlessness. and thus, the "extraordinary" examples that u want to c have been limited or stopped. I will give u one example. when prophet Musa (or Moses) was fleeing Pharoah (the tyrant), he came across sea and he thought him and his handful of followers would be killed by Pharoah's men, but God had parted the ocean water so that Moses and his followers were able to cross it and flee from Pharoah. now, u dont c that kind of stuff happening today u say? (cont)
nafism6969 8 months ago
@nafism6969 Do you really think, that story of Moses was literal? Oh, and other miracles... Well, David Coperfield made a train disappear. Was that a gods miracle? No... And I seriously doubt that girl would actually cry diamonds... Well, biologists and chemists could explain this better. But, of course, these so called miracles are good for propaganda, false justifying.
Drago19930713 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 firslty, yes. the story of Moses is literal. it is real. it happened. and uno what else? heres another miracle for you, when Pharoah and his army approached the open sea, Pharoah was STILL arrogant, and instead of being thoughful he proceeded to chase after Moses through the open sea out of anger. when Moses had crossed, God put the sea back together and and Phraoah and his merry men had drowned. BUT, heres the miracle my friend, do u no that (cont)
nafism6969 8 months ago
@Drago19930713 Pharoahs body has been found by scientists after ...more than 2000 YEARS, in SPECTACULARLY intact position and is in display in a travelling museam for the world to c. look it up. and uno what else ? God told mankind in the Koran that because of Pharoah's arrogance and hatred towards the truth of Moses, God will humiliate Pharoah by preserving his body in the ocean and then bring it forth at a time later for the world to c. and look whats happening today. (cont)
nafism6969 8 months ago