Unlike many religious fanatics, be they conformist Mormons who want to deny gays their full human rights, or Islamists who want to stone young women to death for talking to a boy on the street who is not their cousin or for wearing western jeans, Richard Dawkins has always been a staunch proponent of protecting the human rights of all people, be they religious or non-religious, gay or straight. He is an admirable and decent man.
Homosexual activists understand the power of words.
Please visit my channel to watch a one-minute video clip in which famous atheist Richard Dawkins admits that homosexual activists "hijacked the word 'gay'".
The word "homosexual" is more appropriate and accurate because it, unlike the word "gay", actually describes the behavior/attraction/relationship being discussed.
The word "gay" helps homosexual activists push their agenda.
Jesus loves everybody, and does not hate us, but He already has spoken on the issue, and is our final judge and lawgiver, in addition to creating this beautiful world and dying for our sins to atone for them. These protests are what is called being dishonest with oneself and searing one's conscience. Those that love and make lies beause they do not love the truth in the end have no power to change the order of the Universe and things as they really are and will be.
"Seek deep to hide their counself from the Lord." You will never hear about gays praying and asking God what He thinks about the gay lifestyle because to do so means they have to admit He has already spoken on the issue; so, there is no mention of Jesus, scriptures, morality, etc -- but it is cleverly couched in terms like "equal Rights," whatever that means. Moral agency means we are free to choose our actions, but not the consequences.
Churches don't produce income but consume income -- that is why there is a thing called tithing, or voluntary contributions. It is not Hate to say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that marriage and family is the bedrock of society; it has always been that way over multiple cultures, languages, customs. You don't hear Mormons spewing vindictive chants at others. Also, why were only Mormons targeted when basically all other Christian religions supported Prop 8?
the church dont hate gay people! they dont support the Practice! if we don't drink alcohol don't get mad and hate on the Lord church cuz u drink! sad! y u hate the church so much! the government don't own any of the Church Building! please don't being hatting too much and use ur time and do some good to our neighbors. Go home love ur families, play with ur kids, go work and support ur families, watch good movies, read good books, play sports, do anything that is good and don't harass the Church
Saying "religious" zealots don't hate gay people is akin to saying that the KKK never hated black people; the evidence proving their prejudice is too relentless to ignore. We know that most "religious" people are like children; unable to function intellectually and emotionally in the real world, so they hide behind the absurd myths and fables associated with their "church". That's fine for them, but they have no right to inflict their lifestyle onto other Americans.
These fascist gays never had the balls to attack Black churches.People of color voted overwhelmingly for straight marriage.And church leaders warned the gay mafia to not even think of coming to the hood to commit violence.Would of had to pick up these nazi gays from the streets lol.Not too tough then,eh? Violent nazi queers.
@Bronxloyalist - Interesting point. They don't protest outside mosques either, knowing full well just how much Muslims hate them. We had the mayor elections in Toronto, Ontario last November. The openly gay candidate, George Smitherman, was defeated when Muslims put out a poster campaign against him, and Tamils ran radio commercials urging people not to vote for a homosexual. Yet we never saw any queers protesting outside the mosques.
I think resturants and business should post signs banning homosexual public displays of affection and ban by restraining order anyone who violated thier policy. I know I will support any business with my dollars who strives to provide a safe, clean, non disturbing enviorment for me and my family and boycott any business who supports the gay agenda, the gays have a list ( gay pages ) and they attempt to do just the opposite, its time to stand up America while we still have the choice to do so.
Look at all these little pawns think they doing good lolol... and all these people leaving comments acting like they know everything...... to frigging funny!
@brian8793 the "church" is not true. The mormon church is only but another splinter of the 38,000 other christian denominations that all claim their church is the one true church. Christianity is nothing more than a jumble of confusion & chaos to which we now see the evidence of with it's many internal divisions & separations, with all it's denominations warring amongst themselves. The most shocking thing is most Christians aren't aware of it's own religious history, only what they are taught
The same chants were heard at other rally's like "tax the church" and others. was this a group that lead the rally's or was it spontaneous. i just was wandering.
I think, ultimately, the problem with the same sex marriage issue is education. Too many mormons are convinced homosexuality is a choice (like picking a life insurance policy). Homosexuality is NOT a choice. Gay ppl DO NOT pick and choose who they are attracted to. They don't have control over attraction just like straight ppl can't control their attractions.
When mormons finally realize that gays are born "gay", they will understand as the rest of us understand the natural truth of homosexuals
@momoboy2010 Yes, you're right. The problem is education. Many are convinced that they do not govern themselves or their feelings, or their behaviors. We were born with the agency to do what we would like with our lives, which includes attraction, feelings, behaviors, etc.
Love how u anti's, on ur channels, r always faceless,young,pretty much just care about what man thinks of ya, u have absolutely NO knowledge of what ur even condemning, you HAVE NOT actually read the Book of Mormon, u just spew ur neg, an just plain stupid, all over the place rationalization and man made logic to make urself feel better for whatever reasons. Keep the hole under ur nose CLOSED till ya have an inkling of a clue as to what ur sayin! Righteous Indignation is what THIS comment is....
yes, prop 8 was not "spewing negativity" at all. Prop 8 was about the love of freedom, the love of liberty, and the love of compassion for same sex couples.
Take your book of mormon and other works of fiction back to your meeting houses...where other brainwashed individuals dwell in their Joseph Smith fairy tales.
go read the book of Jaranek... or is he a liar and charlatan like the late Joey Smith?
@momoboy2010 Yeah because you read the Book of Mormon and have actually heard accurate truth about Joseph Smith and not from people who know nothing about the church, yet they spread lies and insults based on what others tell them.
@Crazyrockstar14 read it. read it many times. went thru seminary... did it all. 100% of my information comes from personal experience. try again. Your mormon assumptions are failing you again. Most LDS members do NOT realize that 99% of the information available that the mormon church calls "anti-mormon" comes from MORMONS and Xmormons. The truth is out. no more secrets the charade can end. you are buying into a system, not a truth. the LDS church is a system. thats all.
@momoboy2010 They aren't assumptions, I know what I'm talking about. Just because people left the church does not mean it isn't true. If you read the Book of Mormon many times and went through seminary, you didn't go through it with faith, because that's what it takes to know it is true, along with personal experiences. The people who left the church lack faith, but they always have the chance to come back. Everyone has their own trials in life, and they choose how to deal with it.
@momoboy2010 I didn't wake up one day and say "Hey the church is true!" I had to really study and ponder the scriptures, and go through my own personal experiences to know it is true. Trials make you stronger, depending on how you take them, and when you rely on God and know that he will make it better, it strengthens your testimony.
His hand has been in my life many times, and I have felt His presence in my home, and at church activities. That's how I know it is true.
I use the same technique when learning a new language. I study it. I practice it...until it becomes second nature.
Studying is an excellent way to learn anything. When teachers have students study, it is meant to not only "read" the information, but to ponder it, absorb it completely.
An excellent way to completely include something into our lives is to study that one thing. And, after time, it becomes so real to us, so second nature.
ATTENTION :YOU WOULD NOT BE, IF YOUR FATHER WAS GAY ! & THE PREVALENCE , OF THIS [ GAY ] ACTIVITY ON TV, MOVIE & IN DAILY LIFE , WILL CONFUSE MANY YOUNG PEOPLE , THIS [ HOMOSEXUALISM ] IS A CANCER TO HUMANITY IN MY VEIW . just so we are clear. I DONT FEEL A YOUNG PERSON SHOULD HAVE, THE SOCIALLY SUPPORTED OPTION, TO DEVIATE FROM NATURE, HAVING SEX WITH THE SAME SEX .YOU & PEDOPHILES SURLY DISAGREE WITH ME, I WOULD HOPE THAT ALL OF HUMANITIES, DISEASED CANCERS, WOULD BE ERADICATED . A-S-A-P
Gay marriage is an abomination in the eyes of Our Heavenly Father...period! If your an alcholoc you get help,if your a drug addict you get help, if you crave to have sexual relations with someone of ur own sex,which is TOTALLY unnatural, you get help.its that simple! We are here to turn r weaknesses into strengths,we just dont accept a fault we may have and begin defending it cause its just easier. Pray for the strength to change! His ways r not our ways,his thoughts r not our thoughts...Faith
is the DNA code that we are born with un-natural? Is darker skinned races unworthy of holding God's holy priesthood until 1979? Be careful when you allow a church of special interest dictate your rights and the rights of others. We live in a land of freedoms and liberties. LDS should appreciate that more than anyone, especially with their absurd doctrines and history.
@DallasCowboyBrothers Sorry bro, I don't recall ever mentioning a magic guy or gay ppl. My comment was about gay marriage. Reread it . And by the way...Steelers Rule!! Lol
@TrickTrolan "if you crave to have sexual relations with someone of your own sex" who are you referring to? just wondering...... steelers?......STEELERS?!.........LMAO!!! but from your point of view the do work on the sabbath so Death to them ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL< mwahahahahahaha
@TrickTrolan You can explain it in many ways, but people who don't want to understand will not understand. So if I'm attracted to a guy who is a total bum, I'm going to just live with it because it's easier than getting help and leaving him?
Everyone can control their feelings and actions. Like you said, if they feel like doing something wrong, there's always help, and there's ALWAYS the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
The thing that people don't understand, is that the Lds church does not hate gays and lesbians. But what the gays and lesbians are doing contradicts what God has commanded us, which is marriage is between a man and a woman. That is His commandment, and if you have a problem with it, I suggest you take it up with Him. Will you tell God he is wrong?
The thing that people understand is that the LDS church does hate gays. They teach that hatred in their sacrament meetings, in their priesthood meeting and in general conference. They publish books about it and write articles in their church magazines about it.
What gays and lesbians are doing is none of your business, is it?
Why do mormons want to force everyone to believe what they believe? Why do they want to take their beliefs and make them civil law?
@cryan71 Oh really? Because I don't remember hearing anyone teaching any hatred about gays or lesbians in sacrament meetings, priesthood meetings, or general conference. In fact, they weren't even metioned in general conference. I'd know this because I actually watched it, unlike you, who didn't or you wouldn't have said that. I'm not trying to be offensive, i'm telling you the truth.
No matter how many ways you try to put it or say it, we don't hate gays or lesbians.
Do you really want quotes from your General Conferences? Cause they are out there in spades. Spencer W. Kimball, Bruce R. McConkie, do they ring bells?
@cryan71 Okay, go ahead and give them to me. While you're doing that, you can give me the names of the books that teach us to hate gays and lesbians. Oh, and the church articles too.
@cryan71 And we're not trying to force our beliefs on anyone. We are trying to keep the commandments of God, who clearly says that marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you think he says that just to say it? No, he commands it because having children is a very important part to His work.
If you have any problems or concerns with that, you may talk to Him about it. :)
If you don't want to get gay married, then don't get gay married. If your religion says not to, then why does it matter to you that others get married? Why force your religious beliefs on Non--Mormons?
"Do you think he says that just to say it? "
If you are hearing voices in your head commanding you to do stuff, perhaps you might need to see a doctors.
I think mormons think that when they vote for prop 8 that their celestial kingdom God daddy is so proud of them that they will be one step closer to god-hood and the holy land of the celestial kingdom.
Mormons actually think that prop 8 was gonna stop gay couples from falling in love, or living together, or devoting themselves to each other.
Mormons forgot to remember that this country is ran by laws and legislation
prop 8 will not survive very long in a land of freedom & liberty
@momoboy2010 We're not trying to stop them from falling in love or living together. If they want to do that, then by all means, they can go ahead and do it. But God's Sacred ordinace will be respected.
marriage is a choice. Homosexuality is not a choice. The bible is a collection of historical books written by men claiming it is the word of a God...whereas a portion of this planet accepts it and a portion of this earth rejects it. USA policy is not dictated by the Bible, and the constitution clearly states seperation of church and state. Liberty is a right of every American citizen. Freedom as well.
@momoboy2010 I understand that everyone has the right to choose what they want to do for their lives. But we have the right to stand up for our beliefs and for God's laws. You can choose to agree with it or disagree with it, it's your choice. The church is not trying to take away any rights, or freedom. Like I said, we're standing up for God's laws. That's what most people don't understand.
The overturning of prop 8 is due to a constitutional related issue. The LDS church and its members need to understand that regardless of your own personal beliefs, this country/states have "constitutional" laws. These rights are protected from "mojority votes" for a reason. imagine if the KKK members got enough votes to legalize the hanging of african americans...the constitutional rights will cancel out the majority vote that contradicts the constitutional laws.
@momoboy2010 This is not about the church having fear, and the church isn't using God's laws as some excuse to take away people's rights. Like I said, I understand that everyone has the freedom to choose what they will do with their lives, and we certainly have been given agency to make our own decisions. But it is also the duty of the church to defend God's law whether you like it or not. We do not hate gays and lesbians. We are just standing for what we know is right.
you said " I understand that everyone has the freedom to choose what they will do with their lives, and we certainly have been given agency to make our own decisions"
But, prop 8 took away free agency for same sex couples to get married.
You are representing an LDS special intrest that restricts the rights of others to free agency.
Religion has many blinders on its followers, they are often so consumed with their own exaltation, they forget about compassion for others.
I understand the desire for religious people to get involved with civic law making, but this is the United States of America...not the Celestial Kingdom of the Latter Day Saints movement...we ned to learn to live in unity, with liberty and freedom and justice for ALL. Why is this so hard for the mormons to understand? Does BYU not instruct their students about constitutional regulation?
I'm surprised you don't argue the polygamy thing from the 1800s.
@momoboy2010 And about the polygamy thing, I'm not going to even discuss it because almost all members of other faiths bring it up and hold it against us without even knowing what they're talking about. Most people just judge by what they see without even knowing what is really going on.
And personally, I've never really been into politics because there's so much controversy that it bothers me. But I will stand up for my beliefs no matter how many people hate me for it.
Prop 8 will go down in history as an embarrassment for the Christian and mormon communities, from a political perspective. I urge you ask your bishop about the LDS position on "obeying the law of the land", and you will discover that "you" will not go to the telestial kingdom just because gays have the right to choose to be married or not. Mormons personal exaltation does not hinge on whether or not gays can be married. Politics often bring out the worst in us.
according to LDS doctrine; Wasn't Satan's idea in the pre-existence to "force everyone to live and follow the law, without free agency, and all men will return to God, and the glory will be Lucifer's"...and Jesus said "NO, let us institute free agency and I will go and pay the price of sin for all and prepare a way back to God"
When mormons restrict free agency from others, it is a gross reflection of their own story of satan in the pre-existence... wouldn't you think?
@momoboy2010 You know what brotha, we care about what Our Heavenly Father wants and knows to be right, ahh seeins he's perfect and NOT us. We don't care what man thinks when it comes to upholding His laws. You ain't judging us or anyone when this is all over, Our Savior is. Do you think Father in Heaven just recently became perfect? He doesn't change with the times like everyone down here seems to think we're suppose to, His laws remain unchanged and will change for NOONE. Y? Cause he's Perfect!
The mormon God's laws stays the same? wow, do you even believe in the mormon God? He banned blacks the mormon priesthood, and then he changed his mind in 1978. God had the five points of fellowship in his endowment ceremony, and then he changed that in 1992, etc.
So, your never changing mormon God has made quite a few changes, just in the last 150 years.
Your mormon God also says to obey the law of the land...your mormon doctrine says that.
@momoboy2010 I know you can't fathom how far beyond our Heavenly Fathers wisdom and knowledge is compared to ours(meaning mans), U could take everything known to man, from Adam to today, and the amount of knowledge we have compared to our Fathers,wouldn't even fill a grain of sand! He gives us what we need and what we need to know, in His own time and His own way. We will Never have the answers to everything till the here after. I TRUST Him, He knows what he's doing and why. All that matters!.
...and so "your" testimony of what "your opinion" of what is God's law is "proof" that God does not want gay people to get married in the state of California?
wow. I thought Robin Williams was funny... you take the cake on this one.
In his own time and in his own way...did God tell you this? or did some dude in a suit in Utah tell you...
LOL... take the blinders off for just a moment and you will feel a freedom beyond your understanding as a mormon.
@momoboy2010 Well, if God wanted gay people to get married, why not save all the trouble and just create only men, or create only women? Men and Women were created for a purpose, and God ordained for marriage to be between a man and a woman.
@momoboy2010 God works in strange and mysterious ways. Sometimes, we won't understand why he does certain things, but the important thing is that he most certainly knows what he's doing, and we shouldn't question him about it. There are still some things we need to learn to be able to move on to the next level.
It's like math. You need to have a base for math before moving on to harder problems right?
I say...YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THAT!... Mormons claim to have God's law by revelation to Joe Smith. Muslims claim to have God's Law thru revelation to Mohammad. The Catholics claim the same thing thru revelation from God to the saints.
Why is God giving conflicting revelations?
or is that another mystery of God, to purposly mislead his creations, leading them into conflict, argument, and WAR.
@momoboy2010 Okay, well since you know about the church from taking seminary and reading the Book of Mormon, then you should know about Satan. Let me remind you that he tempts us, and his objective is to destroy us. Now, I'm not saying that other religions are evil, but Satan does stir up the hearts of people to confusion and lies. He does not want us to know the truth, and he doesn't want us to go back to our Father in Heaven. He wants us to live in misery and despair.
you, of all people, should know that every religion and theology teaches that other religions and theologies are wrong, misleading, or incorrect... this is the sickness of religion. Religion is not truth. Religion is man-made. The Gospel you speak of belongs to Jesus Christ...and religion is an invention of man to manipulate it's believers.
I do not argue your convictions and your personal faith, I am not so foolish to do so. BUT, you do live in America!
@momoboy2010 Do you really believe that Heavenly Father wants to mislead us into conflict, argument, and war? Do you really think he wants to hurt us and make us live miserable lives? We are His children. He loves us.
If he wanted us to live in conflict and misery, then he wouldn't have given his only Begotten son, Jesus Christ, to die and suffer for our sins so that we may return to our Father In heaven. If it weren't for Jesus Christ, we wouldn't be able to return to Him.
why do the Muslims say Jesus is a prophet and not the messiah? Mohammad was instructed of God and told that Jesus is just a prophet. And now you are saying that Jesus is the messiah?
wait---which one is correct? There appears more than ONE religion that claims to be true!
but back to free agency and decission making and same sex marriage being a legal civil liberty of ALL under the American constitution---you were doing so well with that! and making great progress
but the Muslims claim something different. And the Jews do not consider Jesus the messiah. The Jews follow the same OT as the mormons. In fact, much of the mormon law is the old Jewish law. Are the Jews correct or wrong?
and what about Islam? Are you saying that Mohammad and his 1-billion or more followers are ALL wrong?
@momoboy2010 Okay, you know, you're bringing all these beliefs from different religions. I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert at knowing these different beliefs, because I don't. I'm sharing with you what I know about the LDS church. Personally, I can't convince you that it's true because that's something you have to find out for yourself. But I'm sharing with you how I know it's true.
Twisting my words will only make you more confused.
@momoboy2010 Based on what I'm seeing, you're confused about which religion is actually true. You may even believe that no religion is true, and I understand your point of view. But let me share this scripture from the bible: "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." -- James 1:5
Yes, I know that scripture all too well... along with the LDS description of Joseph Smith's inspiration of that scripture which led him to the grove where he was told that all churches were corrupt.
The problem is...millions and billions of people have done this and got different answers from God as to what is truth/wisdom.
@momoboy2010 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16
polygammy is an interesting dilema in LDS histroy. In order to fend off the pressures of the federal government and to be granted statehood, the LDS church was basically forced to end polygammy and then UTAH was eligible for statehood.
Mormons, of all people, should be rallied behind the same sex marriage campaign... both polygammy and same sex marrieage go against the "traditional 'definition" of marriage"
very strange that some mormons don't see this similarity.
No one tels the mormons how to worship their gods. Americans who have a full heart for the rights and liberties of ALL citizens are asking the mormons to set aside their fear and understand that NO ONE is forcing gay marriage on them. They don't have to offer gay marriage in their temples. But many Americans are pissed with mormons because mormons want to restrict the rights of others and then use mormon God Laws to justify...sorry, seperation of church and state.
And welcome to America! Land of the free...to worship as we see fit. I am very happy that our American constitution protects us from any given religion or theology, AND-at the same time--our constitution grants us all the right to believe, say, and worship as we want...as long as our religion does not intrude or violate the rights of the other citizens.
@momoboy2010 Yes, the United States of America is something to be very grateful for. I feel blessed to have been born in this country. There are so many opportunities here that we have that others do not have in other countries.
If one believes that God commanded them not to be married to someone of the same sex, it is their right to believe and practice such a thing in their personal life and decissions. This country was formed to grant the rights and liberties for all, not just those who adopt a specific book of history and morals. Same sex marriage does not take the life or liberties away from anyone else, instead, it exemplifies exactly what the US constitution represents and declares!
yes...send him to my home, I will instruct him on the US constitution.
I bet one million dollars that you can not bring God to my doorstep.
as much as you pray, as much as you read your scriptures, as much as you pay tithing...none of that is "proof" that there is a God. Only your heart tells you that, and your heart is 100% controlled by your brain
@momoboy2010 Okay, so first off, you tell me about how Satan in the pre existence life wanted to take away our agency, but Jesus said no, and that's how we have agency. First off, it's not free. It was paid with a price, by Jesus Christ dying for our sins. Second, you're telling me you don't believe in God, but you're coming at me with this? Do you really think the church would go against their own beliefs?
Satan wanted to take away the freedom to decide, the freedom of agency. The mormons (not all) wanted to take away free agency in prop 8...and they failed. Prop 8 was found unconstitutional. I appluad all of the mormons and christians who voted against prop 8, God bless them!
you asked if I thought the LDS church would go against their own beliefs?
I don't care what the LDS church does with their beliefs. I care when their members wish to take away the rights from others.
@momoboy2010 Well then since we supposedly "failed" then you shouldn't worry about what LDS members are doing, now should you? And at least we stood up for what's right. Marriage between a man and a woman will be restored.
@momoboy2010 No my friend, the church is not going against our own beliefs. God's law is God's law. We would be going against our own beliefs if we stood by and let his law perish. And no matter what happens, the church will not be embarassed because we stood up for God's law, and that is the point. And what does this have to do with our own personal exaltation? We're not trying to exalt ourselves, we're trying to do what's right, and that is obeying God's commandments.
what about God's law to sell a daughter into slavery? are you fighting for that one too? you standing up for God's law?
Your own personal exaltation: pay tithing, uphold your leaders, read your scriptures, go to the temple, take out endowments, washings and annointings, baptisms for the dead, ... are these not the many requirements of obtaining the Celestial Kingdom? (along with faith in Christ and his atonement)
@momoboy2010 Selling a daughter into slavery? I've never heard of that one before. God wants everyone to be free, but in the right way, which is not going against his law. And yes, we do pay tithings and do all those things, but this isn't about our own personal exaltation. This is about obeying God.
Exodus 21:7. Women can be sold into slavery, under God's Law given to Moses...same as your Law about men not "sleeping" with men, both given to Moses at the same time. When did God stop the Law of selling daughters into slavery?
Or is this a "pick and choose" which laws and which sins to follow and avoid.
Not sure?
Bronze age laws is YOUR choice to follow; The constitution both protects freedom of worship AND the freedom "from" religion practiced by others.
@momoboy2010 And instead of me sending Him to your home, why don't you go pray to Him and "instruct" Him on the U.S. Constitution. While you're at it, go ahead and ask him if he will change his law. And physical proof is not needed to know God exists. It takes faith. You may think I'm brainwashed, but I know what I am talking about, and I know that he exists, no matter who tries to put me down for believing it. Your offenses mean nothing because I know who is behind that.
I am pretty sure God knows about the US constitution... it is the members of the mormon church who voted for prop 8 that needs educating.
I applaud the members of the LDS church who voted against prop 8.
and yes, we all know that YOU KNOW what you think is true...and we all grant you that right to worship and believe the way you want. If you do not believe in same sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. why is that so hard for you to understand?
@momoboy2010 So why are you saying you want to instruct him on the U.S. constitution if he already knows about it? And as far as being educated, all I know is that God has commanded for marriage to be between a man and a woman. Having a family is a very important part to His work. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
where in the Bible has God commanded a marriage ceremony to be only between a man and a woman? and where in the Bible does it outlaw the US constitution...because the US constitution clearly SEPERATES church and state...which means NO religion can or will govern the US...and no government can dictate how its citizens worship.
a brilliant fact!
a fact that will always stop religious theories of "one" type from dictating our amazing constitution.
@momoboy2010 Here is a link to an article. It's the public media asking church leaders most of the questions you're asking me. The way they answer it is better than I can. Read it with an open mind. h t t p : / / w w w. l d s. o r g / l d s n e w s r o o m / e n g/ p u b l i c - i s s u e s / s a m e - g e n d e r - a t t r a c t i o n. Just put it all together, don't add the spaces. It wouldn't let me post the link.
yes, I read the article link you posted. The biggest problem we have here is I am using science to defend my position and you (and many mormons) are using theology. That is the GAP that we are witnessing here. I understand your belief that homosexuality is a sin and that your church teaches that the sin of homosexuality can be "controlled" individually. My argument there is this...same sex attraction is natural, and trying to oppose it would be like YOU trying not to breathe.
@momoboy2010 No, actually, we're going by what we know is true. That is the real gap. And no matter how many ways I put it, you're always going to argue that the church is trying to discriminate people, take away rights, etc., even though that's not the truth. You read the article and you had your questions answered, yet your heart is still hardened and full of resent.
I already told you and showed you in every possible way why the church does not support gay marriage.
why would you want to subject yourself to something so painful and discomforting. And how does the LDS law of homosexuality superceed the American Constitutional Laws of all peoples, races, religions, etc? I have finally been exposed to the gap here, between mormons and gays.
The mormons are fighting for a religious position.
The gays are fighting for a civil position.
Two completely different subjects that have colided in proposition 8.
@momoboy2010 I can ask you the same question. I feel no pain or discomfort, actually the gospel brings me happiness. You want to see it as the church just wanting power and positions, even though it's not like that. You see that I'm telling you the truth but you just want to see it your way and no other way.
even after reading your article at LDS.org, I am convinced that the mormons are not open to adopting the laws of science. They are happy with bronze-aged laws and that is their religious right to have in their individual rights as members of the church. but, to be citizens in this nation, EQUAL RIGHTS are granted to all citizens, regardless of religion.
There are plenty of other countries that allow religion to rule.
You should try Iran if you think religion should govern.
@momoboy2010 The difference is that you're seeing it in a political perspective. I'm seeing it as God's law being ignored, which I don't appreciate. I don't think the church should take over the country, or anything like that. I think that the church should stand up for our beliefs. This is not a social issue.
@momoboy2010 And also, you were telling someone else how they should "Take off the blinders" So they can experience a "freedom" beyond our understanding as a mormon. Let me remind you, we are not restricted. We have standards and laws, but in the end, we make our own decisions, whether or not they're right or wrong.
I am glad you still have a sense of free agency. All I ask is that you do not take that free agency away from others. I know you think homosexuality is a sin, but for many others, it is their life. Who am I to tell my brother who he can and can not love? do you have power over who you love? NO. attraction is not something we can control.
That is all I ask. Let people live the way that makes them happy. Mormonism makes you happy. Why can't same sex couples be happy too?
@momoboy2010 Again, it's not called free agency. And our point is not to tell people what to do, or hate them for not going with our beliefs, or anything like that. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that we will stand up for God's law. They make the decision to be attracted to the same sex. It's not something you're born with. And they can still live their lives however they want.
I don't think mormons hate gays and lesbians...I am just saddened that "some" mormons wish to take away precious freedoms from a single group of people based on their sexual orientation. I have NO PROBLEM with mormons not offering or believing in same sex marriages in their theology, doctrines, or their temples. I have a problem with discrimination in our civil laws, protected by the constitution.
@momoboy2010 Yeah, because gays are really struggling. Don't compare polygamy to this because it has nothing to do with it. LDS members were getting beaten up, encarcerated, mocked, harassed, discriminated, and they had to watch their families suffer. Gays are not being treated that way.
homosexual attraction is scientifically proven to be both hereditary and biologically explained. It is a natural attraction that many humans are born with. The same attraction you have for a woman...that same attraction is different in a gay male...his attraction to other men is a REAL and natural thing. It is not a choice. Is your attraction to women a "choice"? do you choose who YOU fall in love with?
you are a girl? you are not attracted to girls?...so this means you are attracted to men...right? do you control your attractions? do you wake up in the morning and say you will now like short, bald men with hairy backs? since you say homosexuality is a choice...then that means you are capable of changing who you are attracted to...right?
I wish you knew how absurd you really sound.
Gay is NOT a choice...these attractions are biologically and chemically induced.
@momoboy2010 Of course I'm attracted to guys! And yes, I do infact control my attractions. There are certain types of guys that I like, and certain types that I don't like. And you are most certainly capable of changing who you are attracted to. Actually, as I meet different people, I learn what things I like in people and I'm attracted to people that have those qualities. The things I like in a person change.
@momoboy2010 Actually, I have taken courses on Biology, and no where did I learn that you genetically inherit feelings. Why would God subject people to something that goes against his own laws? You're not making any sense.
You govern yourself! If I'm attracted to a guy that's not a good guy, I can stop myself from yielding to the temptation to being in a relationship. You control your feelings and actions.
I agree we can control our actions...of course we can!
But we can not dictate to our biological structure or our DNA code. i think we are def thinking of two different things here. i agree that we can "change our mind about who we like based on anything from bad breath to violent behavior".
Our fundamental belief in whether or not someone is "born gay" is where we colide...
I am talking about the biological proof of low testosterone levels.
@momoboy2010 Feelings are a behavior. You can change your behavior, you govern yourself, not the other way around. It doesn't sound that absurd when you actually think about it. We have been given the agency to choose what we want to do for our lives, and that includes what we want to feel, or be like.
bahavior is a choice... instinct and feelings are NOT behavior. Behavior is a result of instinct and feelings...thats why pple say "don't act upon your instict" or "act upon your feelings".
biological structure is not a choice. When we are born, we do not "choose" our biological structure, DNA code, or chemical make-up. These are basic studies that you can learn in High School Biology.
Some people choose theology over science... and that is also a choice.
@momoboy2010 See, but that's where agency comes in. Just because you feel attracted to something does not mean you can't change what you're attracted to. If we were born being attracted to our own gender, then that wouldn't be having agency because we didn't choose to be attracted to our own gender.
you are saying that "attraction" is a choice? we can choose who we find attractive?...so lets just say I do not like men in a sexual way... you are saying that I can choose to start to be attracted to men? I can wake up tomorrow--or spend the next year and actually "choose to be sexually attracted to men?"
wow---this is new science to me!
so, you are also saying that if you wanted to, you could force yourself to start being attracted to women?
@momoboy2010 I'm sorry you only limit yourself to worldly truths. There's so much truth to this life that the world does not teach, and when it's exposed, it makes it look ridiculous. I have God's word and teachings. You may believe it's false, but I know it's true. And anyone who opens themselves up can receive knowledge of His gospel.
@momoboy2010 I don't know what you're talking about Sharia, but that's not what I'm talking about. See, you're just trying to justify yourself by ridiculing what I'm telling you. And you exhaust me too because I feel like I'm typing to a brick wall.
I don't need to open my eyes because they're already open. I'm using my own brain and the knowledge that I have received throughout my life. And that "Con man" as you call him, has a name. His name is Joseph Smith and he is a true Prophet of God.
yes, I do agree with you there...that the LDS church does call Joseph Smith a true prophet of God. I do grant you that. That is absolutely right...the LDS organization DOES say that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God.
Sharia is God's Law, according to Islam.
But it is called God's Law...and do you accept all of God's Law? or just some of it?
@momoboy2010 They cannot change God's law because he ordained marriage between a man and a woman in the beginning. Anything other than that is going against his law. Marriage is God's sacred law. They can do whatever they want, but the church will not stand by and just let them disobey His sacred ordinance.
I wish you all the best in your life, I really do. I think its honorable that you stand up and vote for what you think is right. I also know that prop 8 will never survive in this free country of ours... freedom is still something that many Americans do not understand or wish to comply with... but our constitutional will always protect these rights. I am glad not all mormons voted the same way you did... it means that some mormons see the value in our constitution.
@momoboy2010 Thank you, and I wish the best for you in yours. The thing is, you won't understand my opinion if you don't want to understand. But I invite you to express your concerns on Mormon.org. You can chat with others on there about this and get a better understanding on why the LDS church does not support same sex marriage. It's not to convert you, it's just in case you want to know more about it. And I do value our constitution, but I don't value God's law being ignored.
I understand clearly the position of some mormons on same sex marriage... they think that their freedom of religion gives them the right to discriminate the civil rights of others. This is a grossly misunderstood purpose of the freedom of religion. Freedom of religion gives the citizens the right to worship as we see fit, as an individual right. Our constitution protects us all from a single theology or religion to dictate laws for everyone under the "seperation church/state"
@momoboy2010 If that's what you understand on our position, then you don't understand it at all. Mormons do not view this as having the right to discriminate people, and the LDS church is not meaning to discriminate anyone.
prop 8 did discriminate against same sex couples to join in marriage. It is a discrminating proposition. It specifically singles out a group of people based on sexual orientation and demands that they can not get married because of their sexual orientation. Prop 8 reserves the marriage rights for only heterosexual relationships. Prop 8 is discrimination in its fullest sense of the word.
@momoboy2010 Actually, the LDS church did support gays when they were being discriminated for work. So that shows you there that the church does not want to discriminate anyone, but neither do we support God's law being ignored.
@momoboy2010 And thank you for kindly expressing your opinions. Seriously, some people on here can be rude. If you ever have any other questions, I can always answer them.
one question: would you, personally, be upset if Islamic Jihad became a law here in the United States? Jihad is a religious law. Muslims do believe in God, and a personal and civil jihad. Would you feel upset if our government passed a law favoring this religious law of islamic Jihad?
I ask this, because the religious mormon law of marriage is restricting the rights of gay couples.
I'm just wondering how YOU would feel if " other theological laws of God" were passed.
Two YouTube videos to definitely not miss are:
"'Home Invasion': No on Prop 8 ad directed toward Mormon Church" by jonahtrainer
-and-
"Mrs. Betty Bowers: Less is Mormon!" by MrsBettyBowers
RCSVirginia 4 weeks ago
Unlike many religious fanatics, be they conformist Mormons who want to deny gays their full human rights, or Islamists who want to stone young women to death for talking to a boy on the street who is not their cousin or for wearing western jeans, Richard Dawkins has always been a staunch proponent of protecting the human rights of all people, be they religious or non-religious, gay or straight. He is an admirable and decent man.
RCSVirginia 4 weeks ago
Homosexual activists understand the power of words.
Please visit my channel to watch a one-minute video clip in which famous atheist Richard Dawkins admits that homosexual activists "hijacked the word 'gay'".
The word "homosexual" is more appropriate and accurate because it, unlike the word "gay", actually describes the behavior/attraction/relationship being discussed.
The word "gay" helps homosexual activists push their agenda.
lightandbeautiful 1 month ago
Jesus loves everybody, and does not hate us, but He already has spoken on the issue, and is our final judge and lawgiver, in addition to creating this beautiful world and dying for our sins to atone for them. These protests are what is called being dishonest with oneself and searing one's conscience. Those that love and make lies beause they do not love the truth in the end have no power to change the order of the Universe and things as they really are and will be.
hopeful3412 1 month ago
"Seek deep to hide their counself from the Lord." You will never hear about gays praying and asking God what He thinks about the gay lifestyle because to do so means they have to admit He has already spoken on the issue; so, there is no mention of Jesus, scriptures, morality, etc -- but it is cleverly couched in terms like "equal Rights," whatever that means. Moral agency means we are free to choose our actions, but not the consequences.
hopeful3412 1 month ago
Churches don't produce income but consume income -- that is why there is a thing called tithing, or voluntary contributions. It is not Hate to say that marriage is between a man and a woman and that marriage and family is the bedrock of society; it has always been that way over multiple cultures, languages, customs. You don't hear Mormons spewing vindictive chants at others. Also, why were only Mormons targeted when basically all other Christian religions supported Prop 8?
hopeful3412 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Please visit RIMTV1. A Church serving the LGBTQIA community and all believers of Christ, We hope to see you there God Bless You
RIMTV1 1 month ago
the church dont hate gay people! they dont support the Practice! if we don't drink alcohol don't get mad and hate on the Lord church cuz u drink! sad! y u hate the church so much! the government don't own any of the Church Building! please don't being hatting too much and use ur time and do some good to our neighbors. Go home love ur families, play with ur kids, go work and support ur families, watch good movies, read good books, play sports, do anything that is good and don't harass the Church
RooMOnkey07 2 months ago
Saying "religious" zealots don't hate gay people is akin to saying that the KKK never hated black people; the evidence proving their prejudice is too relentless to ignore. We know that most "religious" people are like children; unable to function intellectually and emotionally in the real world, so they hide behind the absurd myths and fables associated with their "church". That's fine for them, but they have no right to inflict their lifestyle onto other Americans.
MattFrame 1 month ago
Mormons don't hate gays, they hate the sin . I will pray for you
Aldensmawmaw 2 months ago
So glad I left that crazy church.
TheRealNickGaga 2 months ago
violent nazi queers? who was violent? they are protesting.
soulfuljourney 4 months ago
there is a difference between anger and hate.
soulfuljourney 4 months ago
Haters gonna hate.
Booze129 6 months ago
"Shame on you"? That is the best they've got? Ouch, that hurts...
whatupyoism 6 months ago
My life has never been so good since leaving the mormon church!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SoCalGuy20 7 months ago
TAX ALL CHURCH'S!!!!!!!
88alexpower 7 months ago
These fascist gays never had the balls to attack Black churches.People of color voted overwhelmingly for straight marriage.And church leaders warned the gay mafia to not even think of coming to the hood to commit violence.Would of had to pick up these nazi gays from the streets lol.Not too tough then,eh? Violent nazi queers.
Bronxloyalist 7 months ago
@Bronxloyalist - Interesting point. They don't protest outside mosques either, knowing full well just how much Muslims hate them. We had the mayor elections in Toronto, Ontario last November. The openly gay candidate, George Smitherman, was defeated when Muslims put out a poster campaign against him, and Tamils ran radio commercials urging people not to vote for a homosexual. Yet we never saw any queers protesting outside the mosques.
bgibb101 4 months ago
I think resturants and business should post signs banning homosexual public displays of affection and ban by restraining order anyone who violated thier policy. I know I will support any business with my dollars who strives to provide a safe, clean, non disturbing enviorment for me and my family and boycott any business who supports the gay agenda, the gays have a list ( gay pages ) and they attempt to do just the opposite, its time to stand up America while we still have the choice to do so.
meattube4u33 9 months ago
well I see all these "say no to H8" signs by these people who are so hatefull...WTF
ToyaRoa 11 months ago 2
HA! You can't tax our church! the government does not own any of our buildings!
gigglegirl788 1 year ago 6
While you are at it, go protest at a Muslim Mosque and call them "religious bigots."
ma7799 1 year ago
@ma7799 You'll never see any of these liberal fascists protesting against their favorite religion, Islam. Ironically, Islam kills gays.
StoogeWatcher 7 months ago
@StoogeWatcher
Yes I know. They slaughter homos!
ma7799 7 months ago
@ma7799 The other irony: They won't defend Israel, the only LGBT-friendly country in the region.
StoogeWatcher 7 months ago
Look at all these little pawns think they doing good lolol... and all these people leaving comments acting like they know everything...... to frigging funny!
sslusshy 1 year ago
@sslusshy
uhh protesters, the conflict is on the other side of the country
MaryBeth321123 11 months ago
@brian8793 the "church" is not true. The mormon church is only but another splinter of the 38,000 other christian denominations that all claim their church is the one true church. Christianity is nothing more than a jumble of confusion & chaos to which we now see the evidence of with it's many internal divisions & separations, with all it's denominations warring amongst themselves. The most shocking thing is most Christians aren't aware of it's own religious history, only what they are taught
rooio3 1 year ago
I wish you guys would understand, the church is true. Any publicity is good publicity.
The Church is a force NOBODY can mess with. It's the only organization on the planet that is INDESTRUCTABLE.
It can never fail....
brian8793 1 year ago
the battle is on the other side of the country you stupid queers
thomasadamnelson 1 year ago
TAX ALL CHURCHES!!!
channelhismojo 1 year ago
The same chants were heard at other rally's like "tax the church" and others. was this a group that lead the rally's or was it spontaneous. i just was wandering.
jahjirahcooper 1 year ago
I think, ultimately, the problem with the same sex marriage issue is education. Too many mormons are convinced homosexuality is a choice (like picking a life insurance policy). Homosexuality is NOT a choice. Gay ppl DO NOT pick and choose who they are attracted to. They don't have control over attraction just like straight ppl can't control their attractions.
When mormons finally realize that gays are born "gay", they will understand as the rest of us understand the natural truth of homosexuals
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Yes, you're right. The problem is education. Many are convinced that they do not govern themselves or their feelings, or their behaviors. We were born with the agency to do what we would like with our lives, which includes attraction, feelings, behaviors, etc.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
please...
get a clue
soon
momoboy2010 1 year ago
Love how u anti's, on ur channels, r always faceless,young,pretty much just care about what man thinks of ya, u have absolutely NO knowledge of what ur even condemning, you HAVE NOT actually read the Book of Mormon, u just spew ur neg, an just plain stupid, all over the place rationalization and man made logic to make urself feel better for whatever reasons. Keep the hole under ur nose CLOSED till ya have an inkling of a clue as to what ur sayin! Righteous Indignation is what THIS comment is....
TrickTrolan 1 year ago 6
@TrickTrolan
yes, prop 8 was not "spewing negativity" at all. Prop 8 was about the love of freedom, the love of liberty, and the love of compassion for same sex couples.
Take your book of mormon and other works of fiction back to your meeting houses...where other brainwashed individuals dwell in their Joseph Smith fairy tales.
go read the book of Jaranek... or is he a liar and charlatan like the late Joey Smith?
wow---modern day revelation....gotta love it
prop 8 = unconstitutional
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Yeah because you read the Book of Mormon and have actually heard accurate truth about Joseph Smith and not from people who know nothing about the church, yet they spread lies and insults based on what others tell them.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 They aren't assumptions, I know what I'm talking about. Just because people left the church does not mean it isn't true. If you read the Book of Mormon many times and went through seminary, you didn't go through it with faith, because that's what it takes to know it is true, along with personal experiences. The people who left the church lack faith, but they always have the chance to come back. Everyone has their own trials in life, and they choose how to deal with it.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
nicely put.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 I didn't wake up one day and say "Hey the church is true!" I had to really study and ponder the scriptures, and go through my own personal experiences to know it is true. Trials make you stronger, depending on how you take them, and when you rely on God and know that he will make it better, it strengthens your testimony.
His hand has been in my life many times, and I have felt His presence in my home, and at church activities. That's how I know it is true.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I use the same technique when learning a new language. I study it. I practice it...until it becomes second nature.
Studying is an excellent way to learn anything. When teachers have students study, it is meant to not only "read" the information, but to ponder it, absorb it completely.
An excellent way to completely include something into our lives is to study that one thing. And, after time, it becomes so real to us, so second nature.
I am a fan of deep study!
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Everyone has the opportunity to receive His gospel. But in the end, it's their decision whether or not to open themselves up to it.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I'm liking all this talk from you about decission making here.
very refreshing...indeed.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Is this all sarcasm? It's kinda hard to tell when communicating through the internet.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@TrickTrolan
I wish your were as deucated on the constitutional laws we are all protected under, as you are educated on the mormon laws of their theology.
I have no problem with mormons believing what they believe...as long as they keep it in their buildings, homes, and their own personal lives.
I don't care how gay people live their lives...
and I want both gays and mormons to all have the right to get married if they fall in love with someone and want to devote their lives to someone.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
how many young gay mormons have to commit suicide before mormons show compassion?
its the batshit crazy religion of our time.
homophobic,bigoted and of course extremly racist.
JESUStheATHEIST1 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
ATTENTION :YOU WOULD NOT BE, IF YOUR FATHER WAS GAY ! & THE PREVALENCE , OF THIS [ GAY ] ACTIVITY ON TV, MOVIE & IN DAILY LIFE , WILL CONFUSE MANY YOUNG PEOPLE , THIS [ HOMOSEXUALISM ] IS A CANCER TO HUMANITY IN MY VEIW . just so we are clear. I DONT FEEL A YOUNG PERSON SHOULD HAVE, THE SOCIALLY SUPPORTED OPTION, TO DEVIATE FROM NATURE, HAVING SEX WITH THE SAME SEX .YOU & PEDOPHILES SURLY DISAGREE WITH ME, I WOULD HOPE THAT ALL OF HUMANITIES, DISEASED CANCERS, WOULD BE ERADICATED . A-S-A-P
ROYALITARIAN 1 year ago
@ROYALITARIAN why group gays in with pedophiles, two different things
i wish youre father was gay so you wouldnt be here
idaman12345 1 year ago
Gay marriage is an abomination in the eyes of Our Heavenly Father...period! If your an alcholoc you get help,if your a drug addict you get help, if you crave to have sexual relations with someone of ur own sex,which is TOTALLY unnatural, you get help.its that simple! We are here to turn r weaknesses into strengths,we just dont accept a fault we may have and begin defending it cause its just easier. Pray for the strength to change! His ways r not our ways,his thoughts r not our thoughts...Faith
TrickTrolan 1 year ago 36
@TrickTrolan
is the DNA code that we are born with un-natural? Is darker skinned races unworthy of holding God's holy priesthood until 1979? Be careful when you allow a church of special interest dictate your rights and the rights of others. We live in a land of freedoms and liberties. LDS should appreciate that more than anyone, especially with their absurd doctrines and history.
Equality for ALL
Liberty for ALL
Freedom for ALL
not just the religiously brainwashed citizens
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@TrickTrolan We really dont give a damn what you think some magic guy thinks about gay people.
DallasCowboyBrothers 1 year ago
@DallasCowboyBrothers Sorry bro, I don't recall ever mentioning a magic guy or gay ppl. My comment was about gay marriage. Reread it . And by the way...Steelers Rule!! Lol
TrickTrolan 1 year ago 24
@TrickTrolan "if you crave to have sexual relations with someone of your own sex" who are you referring to? just wondering...... steelers?......STEELERS?!.........LMAO!!! but from your point of view the do work on the sabbath so Death to them ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL< mwahahahahahaha
DallasCowboyBrothers 1 year ago
@TrickTrolan You can explain it in many ways, but people who don't want to understand will not understand. So if I'm attracted to a guy who is a total bum, I'm going to just live with it because it's easier than getting help and leaving him?
Everyone can control their feelings and actions. Like you said, if they feel like doing something wrong, there's always help, and there's ALWAYS the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@TrickTrolan
Joseph Smith also said all churches are corrupt.
Is that still true?
momoboy2010 1 year ago
NYC is amazing :)
LoveTheCity123 1 year ago
So many AIDS cases in this video.
CHARESTHEHAMER 1 year ago
@CHARESTHEHAMER
wow. brilliant. and you are allowed to vote? wow.
God bless America.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010
As are you mooboy yet you continue to pretend like your being treated like a jew in nazi germany.
CHARESTHEHAMER 1 year ago
@CHARESTHEHAMER
I began to think where in hell you assume the things you assume, and then it comes to me! You never finished 2nd grade...that explains everything!
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010
No one gives a shit what you "think".
CHARESTHEHAMER 1 year ago
The thing that people don't understand, is that the Lds church does not hate gays and lesbians. But what the gays and lesbians are doing contradicts what God has commanded us, which is marriage is between a man and a woman. That is His commandment, and if you have a problem with it, I suggest you take it up with Him. Will you tell God he is wrong?
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
The thing that people understand is that the LDS church does hate gays. They teach that hatred in their sacrament meetings, in their priesthood meeting and in general conference. They publish books about it and write articles in their church magazines about it.
What gays and lesbians are doing is none of your business, is it?
Why do mormons want to force everyone to believe what they believe? Why do they want to take their beliefs and make them civil law?
cryan71 1 year ago
@cryan71 Oh really? Because I don't remember hearing anyone teaching any hatred about gays or lesbians in sacrament meetings, priesthood meetings, or general conference. In fact, they weren't even metioned in general conference. I'd know this because I actually watched it, unlike you, who didn't or you wouldn't have said that. I'm not trying to be offensive, i'm telling you the truth.
No matter how many ways you try to put it or say it, we don't hate gays or lesbians.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
Do you really want quotes from your General Conferences? Cause they are out there in spades. Spencer W. Kimball, Bruce R. McConkie, do they ring bells?
cryan71 1 year ago
@cryan71 Okay, go ahead and give them to me. While you're doing that, you can give me the names of the books that teach us to hate gays and lesbians. Oh, and the church articles too.
I already said what needed to be said.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@cryan71 And we're not trying to force our beliefs on anyone. We are trying to keep the commandments of God, who clearly says that marriage is between a man and a woman. Do you think he says that just to say it? No, he commands it because having children is a very important part to His work.
If you have any problems or concerns with that, you may talk to Him about it. :)
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
"We are trying to keep the commandments of God,"
If you don't want to get gay married, then don't get gay married. If your religion says not to, then why does it matter to you that others get married? Why force your religious beliefs on Non--Mormons?
"Do you think he says that just to say it? "
If you are hearing voices in your head commanding you to do stuff, perhaps you might need to see a doctors.
cryan71 1 year ago
@cryan71
I think mormons think that when they vote for prop 8 that their celestial kingdom God daddy is so proud of them that they will be one step closer to god-hood and the holy land of the celestial kingdom.
Mormons actually think that prop 8 was gonna stop gay couples from falling in love, or living together, or devoting themselves to each other.
Mormons forgot to remember that this country is ran by laws and legislation
prop 8 will not survive very long in a land of freedom & liberty
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 We're not trying to stop them from falling in love or living together. If they want to do that, then by all means, they can go ahead and do it. But God's Sacred ordinace will be respected.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
marriage is a choice. Homosexuality is not a choice. The bible is a collection of historical books written by men claiming it is the word of a God...whereas a portion of this planet accepts it and a portion of this earth rejects it. USA policy is not dictated by the Bible, and the constitution clearly states seperation of church and state. Liberty is a right of every American citizen. Freedom as well.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 I understand that everyone has the right to choose what they want to do for their lives. But we have the right to stand up for our beliefs and for God's laws. You can choose to agree with it or disagree with it, it's your choice. The church is not trying to take away any rights, or freedom. Like I said, we're standing up for God's laws. That's what most people don't understand.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
The overturning of prop 8 is due to a constitutional related issue. The LDS church and its members need to understand that regardless of your own personal beliefs, this country/states have "constitutional" laws. These rights are protected from "mojority votes" for a reason. imagine if the KKK members got enough votes to legalize the hanging of african americans...the constitutional rights will cancel out the majority vote that contradicts the constitutional laws.
sorry
USA.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 This is not about the church having fear, and the church isn't using God's laws as some excuse to take away people's rights. Like I said, I understand that everyone has the freedom to choose what they will do with their lives, and we certainly have been given agency to make our own decisions. But it is also the duty of the church to defend God's law whether you like it or not. We do not hate gays and lesbians. We are just standing for what we know is right.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
you said " I understand that everyone has the freedom to choose what they will do with their lives, and we certainly have been given agency to make our own decisions"
But, prop 8 took away free agency for same sex couples to get married.
You are representing an LDS special intrest that restricts the rights of others to free agency.
Religion has many blinders on its followers, they are often so consumed with their own exaltation, they forget about compassion for others.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I understand the desire for religious people to get involved with civic law making, but this is the United States of America...not the Celestial Kingdom of the Latter Day Saints movement...we ned to learn to live in unity, with liberty and freedom and justice for ALL. Why is this so hard for the mormons to understand? Does BYU not instruct their students about constitutional regulation?
I'm surprised you don't argue the polygamy thing from the 1800s.
tough stuff. I know
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 And about the polygamy thing, I'm not going to even discuss it because almost all members of other faiths bring it up and hold it against us without even knowing what they're talking about. Most people just judge by what they see without even knowing what is really going on.
And personally, I've never really been into politics because there's so much controversy that it bothers me. But I will stand up for my beliefs no matter how many people hate me for it.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
Prop 8 will go down in history as an embarrassment for the Christian and mormon communities, from a political perspective. I urge you ask your bishop about the LDS position on "obeying the law of the land", and you will discover that "you" will not go to the telestial kingdom just because gays have the right to choose to be married or not. Mormons personal exaltation does not hinge on whether or not gays can be married. Politics often bring out the worst in us.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
according to LDS doctrine; Wasn't Satan's idea in the pre-existence to "force everyone to live and follow the law, without free agency, and all men will return to God, and the glory will be Lucifer's"...and Jesus said "NO, let us institute free agency and I will go and pay the price of sin for all and prepare a way back to God"
When mormons restrict free agency from others, it is a gross reflection of their own story of satan in the pre-existence... wouldn't you think?
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 You know what brotha, we care about what Our Heavenly Father wants and knows to be right, ahh seeins he's perfect and NOT us. We don't care what man thinks when it comes to upholding His laws. You ain't judging us or anyone when this is all over, Our Savior is. Do you think Father in Heaven just recently became perfect? He doesn't change with the times like everyone down here seems to think we're suppose to, His laws remain unchanged and will change for NOONE. Y? Cause he's Perfect!
TrickTrolan 1 year ago 6
@TrickTrolan
The mormon God's laws stays the same? wow, do you even believe in the mormon God? He banned blacks the mormon priesthood, and then he changed his mind in 1978. God had the five points of fellowship in his endowment ceremony, and then he changed that in 1992, etc.
So, your never changing mormon God has made quite a few changes, just in the last 150 years.
Your mormon God also says to obey the law of the land...your mormon doctrine says that.
prop 8 just declared unconstitutional
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 I know you can't fathom how far beyond our Heavenly Fathers wisdom and knowledge is compared to ours(meaning mans), U could take everything known to man, from Adam to today, and the amount of knowledge we have compared to our Fathers,wouldn't even fill a grain of sand! He gives us what we need and what we need to know, in His own time and His own way. We will Never have the answers to everything till the here after. I TRUST Him, He knows what he's doing and why. All that matters!.
TrickTrolan 1 year ago 6
@TrickTrolan
...and so "your" testimony of what "your opinion" of what is God's law is "proof" that God does not want gay people to get married in the state of California?
wow. I thought Robin Williams was funny... you take the cake on this one.
In his own time and in his own way...did God tell you this? or did some dude in a suit in Utah tell you...
LOL... take the blinders off for just a moment and you will feel a freedom beyond your understanding as a mormon.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Well, if God wanted gay people to get married, why not save all the trouble and just create only men, or create only women? Men and Women were created for a purpose, and God ordained for marriage to be between a man and a woman.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 God works in strange and mysterious ways. Sometimes, we won't understand why he does certain things, but the important thing is that he most certainly knows what he's doing, and we shouldn't question him about it. There are still some things we need to learn to be able to move on to the next level.
It's like math. You need to have a base for math before moving on to harder problems right?
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
you said: "God works in mysterious ways"
I say...YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THAT!... Mormons claim to have God's law by revelation to Joe Smith. Muslims claim to have God's Law thru revelation to Mohammad. The Catholics claim the same thing thru revelation from God to the saints.
Why is God giving conflicting revelations?
or is that another mystery of God, to purposly mislead his creations, leading them into conflict, argument, and WAR.
you said it alright...very mysterious
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Okay, well since you know about the church from taking seminary and reading the Book of Mormon, then you should know about Satan. Let me remind you that he tempts us, and his objective is to destroy us. Now, I'm not saying that other religions are evil, but Satan does stir up the hearts of people to confusion and lies. He does not want us to know the truth, and he doesn't want us to go back to our Father in Heaven. He wants us to live in misery and despair.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
you, of all people, should know that every religion and theology teaches that other religions and theologies are wrong, misleading, or incorrect... this is the sickness of religion. Religion is not truth. Religion is man-made. The Gospel you speak of belongs to Jesus Christ...and religion is an invention of man to manipulate it's believers.
I do not argue your convictions and your personal faith, I am not so foolish to do so. BUT, you do live in America!
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I know what the mormons say about satan, and I know what the christians say about satan...and the two do not agree.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Do you really believe that Heavenly Father wants to mislead us into conflict, argument, and war? Do you really think he wants to hurt us and make us live miserable lives? We are His children. He loves us.
If he wanted us to live in conflict and misery, then he wouldn't have given his only Begotten son, Jesus Christ, to die and suffer for our sins so that we may return to our Father In heaven. If it weren't for Jesus Christ, we wouldn't be able to return to Him.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
why do the Muslims say Jesus is a prophet and not the messiah? Mohammad was instructed of God and told that Jesus is just a prophet. And now you are saying that Jesus is the messiah?
wait---which one is correct? There appears more than ONE religion that claims to be true!
but back to free agency and decission making and same sex marriage being a legal civil liberty of ALL under the American constitution---you were doing so well with that! and making great progress
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Jesus was a prophet and is the messiah.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 So if he didn't care about us, Jesus wouldn't have gone through what He did for us.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
but the Muslims claim something different. And the Jews do not consider Jesus the messiah. The Jews follow the same OT as the mormons. In fact, much of the mormon law is the old Jewish law. Are the Jews correct or wrong?
and what about Islam? Are you saying that Mohammad and his 1-billion or more followers are ALL wrong?
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Okay, you know, you're bringing all these beliefs from different religions. I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert at knowing these different beliefs, because I don't. I'm sharing with you what I know about the LDS church. Personally, I can't convince you that it's true because that's something you have to find out for yourself. But I'm sharing with you how I know it's true.
Twisting my words will only make you more confused.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Based on what I'm seeing, you're confused about which religion is actually true. You may even believe that no religion is true, and I understand your point of view. But let me share this scripture from the bible: "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him." -- James 1:5
There's your answer.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
Yes, I know that scripture all too well... along with the LDS description of Joseph Smith's inspiration of that scripture which led him to the grove where he was told that all churches were corrupt.
The problem is...millions and billions of people have done this and got different answers from God as to what is truth/wisdom.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@momoboy2010 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
polygammy is an interesting dilema in LDS histroy. In order to fend off the pressures of the federal government and to be granted statehood, the LDS church was basically forced to end polygammy and then UTAH was eligible for statehood.
Mormons, of all people, should be rallied behind the same sex marriage campaign... both polygammy and same sex marrieage go against the "traditional 'definition" of marriage"
very strange that some mormons don't see this similarity.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010
not similarity...more like something in common...polygammy and same sex marriage
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
No one tels the mormons how to worship their gods. Americans who have a full heart for the rights and liberties of ALL citizens are asking the mormons to set aside their fear and understand that NO ONE is forcing gay marriage on them. They don't have to offer gay marriage in their temples. But many Americans are pissed with mormons because mormons want to restrict the rights of others and then use mormon God Laws to justify...sorry, seperation of church and state.
US history
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
So you are standing up for Sharia (God's Law)?
According to over a billion ppl on this planet, Sharia IS God's Law.
Since Sharia is God's Law, maybe the components of God's Law should be part of the American Law?
right?
God's Law is God's Law
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 It doesn't matter to me what a billion people on the planet believe. I'm going by what I know and learn in the church.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I couldn't have said it better myself.
And welcome to America! Land of the free...to worship as we see fit. I am very happy that our American constitution protects us from any given religion or theology, AND-at the same time--our constitution grants us all the right to believe, say, and worship as we want...as long as our religion does not intrude or violate the rights of the other citizens.
This truly is an amazing country we live in.
Thank God for that!
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Yes, the United States of America is something to be very grateful for. I feel blessed to have been born in this country. There are so many opportunities here that we have that others do not have in other countries.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
If one believes that God commanded them not to be married to someone of the same sex, it is their right to believe and practice such a thing in their personal life and decissions. This country was formed to grant the rights and liberties for all, not just those who adopt a specific book of history and morals. Same sex marriage does not take the life or liberties away from anyone else, instead, it exemplifies exactly what the US constitution represents and declares!
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
yes...send him to my home, I will instruct him on the US constitution.
I bet one million dollars that you can not bring God to my doorstep.
as much as you pray, as much as you read your scriptures, as much as you pay tithing...none of that is "proof" that there is a God. Only your heart tells you that, and your heart is 100% controlled by your brain
brainwashed.
prop 8 = unconstitutional
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Okay, so first off, you tell me about how Satan in the pre existence life wanted to take away our agency, but Jesus said no, and that's how we have agency. First off, it's not free. It was paid with a price, by Jesus Christ dying for our sins. Second, you're telling me you don't believe in God, but you're coming at me with this? Do you really think the church would go against their own beliefs?
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
Satan wanted to take away the freedom to decide, the freedom of agency. The mormons (not all) wanted to take away free agency in prop 8...and they failed. Prop 8 was found unconstitutional. I appluad all of the mormons and christians who voted against prop 8, God bless them!
you asked if I thought the LDS church would go against their own beliefs?
I don't care what the LDS church does with their beliefs. I care when their members wish to take away the rights from others.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Well then since we supposedly "failed" then you shouldn't worry about what LDS members are doing, now should you? And at least we stood up for what's right. Marriage between a man and a woman will be restored.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
"Marriage between a man and a woman will be restored. "
Ummm... last I checked men and women can still get married.
The sky isn't falling.
cryan71 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 No my friend, the church is not going against our own beliefs. God's law is God's law. We would be going against our own beliefs if we stood by and let his law perish. And no matter what happens, the church will not be embarassed because we stood up for God's law, and that is the point. And what does this have to do with our own personal exaltation? We're not trying to exalt ourselves, we're trying to do what's right, and that is obeying God's commandments.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
what about God's law to sell a daughter into slavery? are you fighting for that one too? you standing up for God's law?
Your own personal exaltation: pay tithing, uphold your leaders, read your scriptures, go to the temple, take out endowments, washings and annointings, baptisms for the dead, ... are these not the many requirements of obtaining the Celestial Kingdom? (along with faith in Christ and his atonement)
"after all that YOU can do"
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Selling a daughter into slavery? I've never heard of that one before. God wants everyone to be free, but in the right way, which is not going against his law. And yes, we do pay tithings and do all those things, but this isn't about our own personal exaltation. This is about obeying God.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
Exodus 21:7. Women can be sold into slavery, under God's Law given to Moses...same as your Law about men not "sleeping" with men, both given to Moses at the same time. When did God stop the Law of selling daughters into slavery?
Or is this a "pick and choose" which laws and which sins to follow and avoid.
Not sure?
Bronze age laws is YOUR choice to follow; The constitution both protects freedom of worship AND the freedom "from" religion practiced by others.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 And instead of me sending Him to your home, why don't you go pray to Him and "instruct" Him on the U.S. Constitution. While you're at it, go ahead and ask him if he will change his law. And physical proof is not needed to know God exists. It takes faith. You may think I'm brainwashed, but I know what I am talking about, and I know that he exists, no matter who tries to put me down for believing it. Your offenses mean nothing because I know who is behind that.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I am pretty sure God knows about the US constitution... it is the members of the mormon church who voted for prop 8 that needs educating.
I applaud the members of the LDS church who voted against prop 8.
and yes, we all know that YOU KNOW what you think is true...and we all grant you that right to worship and believe the way you want. If you do not believe in same sex marriage, then don't marry someone of the same sex. why is that so hard for you to understand?
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 So why are you saying you want to instruct him on the U.S. constitution if he already knows about it? And as far as being educated, all I know is that God has commanded for marriage to be between a man and a woman. Having a family is a very important part to His work. Why is that so hard for you to understand?
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
where in the Bible has God commanded a marriage ceremony to be only between a man and a woman? and where in the Bible does it outlaw the US constitution...because the US constitution clearly SEPERATES church and state...which means NO religion can or will govern the US...and no government can dictate how its citizens worship.
a brilliant fact!
a fact that will always stop religious theories of "one" type from dictating our amazing constitution.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Here is a link to an article. It's the public media asking church leaders most of the questions you're asking me. The way they answer it is better than I can. Read it with an open mind. h t t p : / / w w w. l d s. o r g / l d s n e w s r o o m / e n g/ p u b l i c - i s s u e s / s a m e - g e n d e r - a t t r a c t i o n. Just put it all together, don't add the spaces. It wouldn't let me post the link.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
yes, I read the article link you posted. The biggest problem we have here is I am using science to defend my position and you (and many mormons) are using theology. That is the GAP that we are witnessing here. I understand your belief that homosexuality is a sin and that your church teaches that the sin of homosexuality can be "controlled" individually. My argument there is this...same sex attraction is natural, and trying to oppose it would be like YOU trying not to breathe.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 No, actually, we're going by what we know is true. That is the real gap. And no matter how many ways I put it, you're always going to argue that the church is trying to discriminate people, take away rights, etc., even though that's not the truth. You read the article and you had your questions answered, yet your heart is still hardened and full of resent.
I already told you and showed you in every possible way why the church does not support gay marriage.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
why would you want to subject yourself to something so painful and discomforting. And how does the LDS law of homosexuality superceed the American Constitutional Laws of all peoples, races, religions, etc? I have finally been exposed to the gap here, between mormons and gays.
The mormons are fighting for a religious position.
The gays are fighting for a civil position.
Two completely different subjects that have colided in proposition 8.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 I can ask you the same question. I feel no pain or discomfort, actually the gospel brings me happiness. You want to see it as the church just wanting power and positions, even though it's not like that. You see that I'm telling you the truth but you just want to see it your way and no other way.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
even after reading your article at LDS.org, I am convinced that the mormons are not open to adopting the laws of science. They are happy with bronze-aged laws and that is their religious right to have in their individual rights as members of the church. but, to be citizens in this nation, EQUAL RIGHTS are granted to all citizens, regardless of religion.
There are plenty of other countries that allow religion to rule.
You should try Iran if you think religion should govern.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 The difference is that you're seeing it in a political perspective. I'm seeing it as God's law being ignored, which I don't appreciate. I don't think the church should take over the country, or anything like that. I think that the church should stand up for our beliefs. This is not a social issue.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
prop 8 and banning same sex marriage in California is not a social issue?
are you crazy?
seriously...are you insane?
Of course it is a social issue.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 And also, you were telling someone else how they should "Take off the blinders" So they can experience a "freedom" beyond our understanding as a mormon. Let me remind you, we are not restricted. We have standards and laws, but in the end, we make our own decisions, whether or not they're right or wrong.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I am glad you still have a sense of free agency. All I ask is that you do not take that free agency away from others. I know you think homosexuality is a sin, but for many others, it is their life. Who am I to tell my brother who he can and can not love? do you have power over who you love? NO. attraction is not something we can control.
That is all I ask. Let people live the way that makes them happy. Mormonism makes you happy. Why can't same sex couples be happy too?
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Again, it's not called free agency. And our point is not to tell people what to do, or hate them for not going with our beliefs, or anything like that. I don't know how many times I need to repeat that we will stand up for God's law. They make the decision to be attracted to the same sex. It's not something you're born with. And they can still live their lives however they want.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I don't think mormons hate gays and lesbians...I am just saddened that "some" mormons wish to take away precious freedoms from a single group of people based on their sexual orientation. I have NO PROBLEM with mormons not offering or believing in same sex marriages in their theology, doctrines, or their temples. I have a problem with discrimination in our civil laws, protected by the constitution.
LDS should really respect the gay struggle
(polygammy of the LDS in 1800s)
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Yeah, because gays are really struggling. Don't compare polygamy to this because it has nothing to do with it. LDS members were getting beaten up, encarcerated, mocked, harassed, discriminated, and they had to watch their families suffer. Gays are not being treated that way.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I was referring to the "political struggle" of UTAH in the 1800s for the right to keep polygammy AND still obtain statehood in the union.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
homosexual attraction is scientifically proven to be both hereditary and biologically explained. It is a natural attraction that many humans are born with. The same attraction you have for a woman...that same attraction is different in a gay male...his attraction to other men is a REAL and natural thing. It is not a choice. Is your attraction to women a "choice"? do you choose who YOU fall in love with?
If you do..then YOU are un-natural.
Gay is not a choice.
marriage is
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 First, I'm a girl, so I'm not attracted to women. And the link that I posted earlier will explain this better than I can.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I will take a look at your link
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
you are a girl? you are not attracted to girls?...so this means you are attracted to men...right? do you control your attractions? do you wake up in the morning and say you will now like short, bald men with hairy backs? since you say homosexuality is a choice...then that means you are capable of changing who you are attracted to...right?
I wish you knew how absurd you really sound.
Gay is NOT a choice...these attractions are biologically and chemically induced.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Of course I'm attracted to guys! And yes, I do infact control my attractions. There are certain types of guys that I like, and certain types that I don't like. And you are most certainly capable of changing who you are attracted to. Actually, as I meet different people, I learn what things I like in people and I'm attracted to people that have those qualities. The things I like in a person change.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
again, you go against nature.
please take a biology course. it will help you understand.
God did invent biology...right?
I understand if you don't want to study biology ifg you don't believe that God created biology.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Actually, I have taken courses on Biology, and no where did I learn that you genetically inherit feelings. Why would God subject people to something that goes against his own laws? You're not making any sense.
You govern yourself! If I'm attracted to a guy that's not a good guy, I can stop myself from yielding to the temptation to being in a relationship. You control your feelings and actions.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I agree we can control our actions...of course we can!
But we can not dictate to our biological structure or our DNA code. i think we are def thinking of two different things here. i agree that we can "change our mind about who we like based on anything from bad breath to violent behavior".
Our fundamental belief in whether or not someone is "born gay" is where we colide...
I am talking about the biological proof of low testosterone levels.
You are talking "actions"
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Feelings are a behavior. You can change your behavior, you govern yourself, not the other way around. It doesn't sound that absurd when you actually think about it. We have been given the agency to choose what we want to do for our lives, and that includes what we want to feel, or be like.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
bahavior is a choice... instinct and feelings are NOT behavior. Behavior is a result of instinct and feelings...thats why pple say "don't act upon your instict" or "act upon your feelings".
biological structure is not a choice. When we are born, we do not "choose" our biological structure, DNA code, or chemical make-up. These are basic studies that you can learn in High School Biology.
Some people choose theology over science... and that is also a choice.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 See, but that's where agency comes in. Just because you feel attracted to something does not mean you can't change what you're attracted to. If we were born being attracted to our own gender, then that wouldn't be having agency because we didn't choose to be attracted to our own gender.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
what?
you are saying that "attraction" is a choice? we can choose who we find attractive?...so lets just say I do not like men in a sexual way... you are saying that I can choose to start to be attracted to men? I can wake up tomorrow--or spend the next year and actually "choose to be sexually attracted to men?"
wow---this is new science to me!
so, you are also saying that if you wanted to, you could force yourself to start being attracted to women?
wow.
BS !
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Well, if you really want to be attracted to men, you can accomplish anything you set your mind and heart to.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
LOL
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I know the words you type are there. I can read them, but that doesn't make your words "true".
Where is your proof that homosexuality is a choice?
Where is your proof that homosexuality is not biological?
Where is your proof that homosexuality is not natural?
I am not like you. I look for evidences, not bronze age old stories of men to dictate my life.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 I'm sorry you only limit yourself to worldly truths. There's so much truth to this life that the world does not teach, and when it's exposed, it makes it look ridiculous. I have God's word and teachings. You may believe it's false, but I know it's true. And anyone who opens themselves up can receive knowledge of His gospel.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I am going to consider your example...I am going to try and start living by God's Law.
Sharia scares the hell out of me...but I will try and live and stand up for that Law---the Law of God. Sharia.
omg.
you exaust me.
I beg you to open your eyes, get an education, and start using your own brain instead of adopting the thoughts of a 19th century con-man.
God bless you,
and best of luck.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 I don't know what you're talking about Sharia, but that's not what I'm talking about. See, you're just trying to justify yourself by ridiculing what I'm telling you. And you exhaust me too because I feel like I'm typing to a brick wall.
I don't need to open my eyes because they're already open. I'm using my own brain and the knowledge that I have received throughout my life. And that "Con man" as you call him, has a name. His name is Joseph Smith and he is a true Prophet of God.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
yes, I do agree with you there...that the LDS church does call Joseph Smith a true prophet of God. I do grant you that. That is absolutely right...the LDS organization DOES say that Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God.
Sharia is God's Law, according to Islam.
But it is called God's Law...and do you accept all of God's Law? or just some of it?
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 They cannot change God's law because he ordained marriage between a man and a woman in the beginning. Anything other than that is going against his law. Marriage is God's sacred law. They can do whatever they want, but the church will not stand by and just let them disobey His sacred ordinance.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I wish you all the best in your life, I really do. I think its honorable that you stand up and vote for what you think is right. I also know that prop 8 will never survive in this free country of ours... freedom is still something that many Americans do not understand or wish to comply with... but our constitutional will always protect these rights. I am glad not all mormons voted the same way you did... it means that some mormons see the value in our constitution.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Thank you, and I wish the best for you in yours. The thing is, you won't understand my opinion if you don't want to understand. But I invite you to express your concerns on Mormon.org. You can chat with others on there about this and get a better understanding on why the LDS church does not support same sex marriage. It's not to convert you, it's just in case you want to know more about it. And I do value our constitution, but I don't value God's law being ignored.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
I understand clearly the position of some mormons on same sex marriage... they think that their freedom of religion gives them the right to discriminate the civil rights of others. This is a grossly misunderstood purpose of the freedom of religion. Freedom of religion gives the citizens the right to worship as we see fit, as an individual right. Our constitution protects us all from a single theology or religion to dictate laws for everyone under the "seperation church/state"
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 If that's what you understand on our position, then you don't understand it at all. Mormons do not view this as having the right to discriminate people, and the LDS church is not meaning to discriminate anyone.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
prop 8 did discriminate against same sex couples to join in marriage. It is a discrminating proposition. It specifically singles out a group of people based on sexual orientation and demands that they can not get married because of their sexual orientation. Prop 8 reserves the marriage rights for only heterosexual relationships. Prop 8 is discrimination in its fullest sense of the word.
what is the "mormon" definition for discriminate?
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 Actually, the LDS church did support gays when they were being discriminated for work. So that shows you there that the church does not want to discriminate anyone, but neither do we support God's law being ignored.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
thats fantastic...its nice to hear that the LDS church is against job discrimination.
I am glad to hear it.
momoboy2010 1 year ago
@momoboy2010 And thank you for kindly expressing your opinions. Seriously, some people on here can be rude. If you ever have any other questions, I can always answer them.
Crazyrockstar14 1 year ago
@Crazyrockstar14
one question: would you, personally, be upset if Islamic Jihad became a law here in the United States? Jihad is a religious law. Muslims do believe in God, and a personal and civil jihad. Would you feel upset if our government passed a law favoring this religious law of islamic Jihad?
I ask this, because the religious mormon law of marriage is restricting the rights of gay couples.
I'm just wondering how YOU would feel if " other theological laws of God" were passed.
momoboy2010 1 year ago