Homeless in Hong Kong - 13 Nov 08

[WeaponSamurai]

That bed system is BRILLIANT

[student135]

hmm..

how can we assist these jobless people in hong kong ... ??????

[neonaction]

a cage cost $200 dollars a month?! Damn, fuck hong kong rent!

[stephentsang2000]

@neonaction The rent is overstated in this video. US$200 is enough to rent a ten sq. meters room with a decent toilet. That cage costs around US$75 a month at max.

[kmcl11]

What the hell is that whitey doing homeless in China....lol

[dodoboy1212]

funny how with the economy all fucked up the government still poured in loads of money to construct a railway to please china

[solidysnake1]

this video demonstrates the exact outcome economic libertarianism produce, it's great for the rich, but it's very hard for the poor

[amazingyou1uber]

@solidysnake1 And countries that has the lowest percentage of homeless people (Switzerland and Sweden) are not free market economies. There's plenty of government intervention in Switzerland and Sweden.

Ask any libertarian about poverty and the first thing they'll say is "I DON'T CARE". Hence, their support for individualism.

[madass888]

@solidysnake1

No, without economic libertarianism Hong Kong would be nothing. It's incredibly small and has no resources at all. It's just amazing that it has one the strongest economies in the world and it's all thanks to economic freedom.

Funny thing is that the global economic crisis causing these people losing their jobs, is because of (United States) government.

[neonaction]

@madass888 Do you have any proof unemployment was caused by government??

[solidysnake1]

@madass888 well libertarianism wasn't the sole reason hong kong was prosperous, under communist rule Hong Kong was the only open port in China.

[kbundy023]

Is homeless are more guy than girl

[stephentsang2000]

Hong Kong is a disgrace to the human race~

[Texwipe99]

Check out SCMP(a Hong Kong news website)a head lined article about Hong Kong should get ready for recent college graduates to be homeless because of the down turn of the economy.

[05death05]

Hong Kong is rank 6 out of 195 in life expectancy. Overall age is 81.77 years, hard to believe that there are 100,000 people living like that.

[cjason123]

quite easy to believe, for a population of 7 million and counting. Any big city had its problems. In Canada where I live, thousands of syringes for crack are found on my city streets each spring after the winter thaw. One would think people are stepping all over them in that case, but it's not. I personally only saw 1 or 2 lying around myself. Almost invisible, just like these 100,000 people living in HK; invisible.

[kkklownknight6699]

HK is the closest thing to a Libertarian society.

No Welfare and very free economy.

[macctosh]

What? a homeless white man IN A FOREIGN COUNTRY DAM!!! I am surprised he is still alive!! I wonder how he does it!!

[chromodoris]

You sound surprised. Yes, there are white homeless people in this world, even in South Africa.

Any particular reason why you thought otherwise?

[cromespyder]

there are not many whites in non-white countries throughout the world, but the majority who are, are successful men with a nestegg at least large enough to avoid being homeless and/or buy a plane ticket home.

[carolyntong]

seems like you know nothing about hong kong society.

[4merCIA]

The stupidity and corruption in the Bush administration is the real cause of all these economic problems. Our government and economy has been hijacked by Zionists who have stolen billions of dollars from our government and have caused us to bankrupt our economy fighting wars that the Israeli scum should be fighting themselves. We are SICK of ISRAELI DOGS!

[unitedwecouldstand]

This is not a capitalism or free economy issue... oops sorry, I was about to argue against the socialist liers out there.

So, Communist and socialist countries dont have homeless people and unemployment. And em, this is all George Bush's fault. LOL

If you want real answers "Seek ye first the kingdom of a living God"

[therepublicofHK]

unitedwecouldstand: Your ignorance of Hong Kong is disgraceful. Hong Kong; a former British colony until 1997, now essentially a colony of China, has consistently been voted the worlds freest economy by the Fraser Institute.

Aside from subsidised healthcare there is NO welfare in Hong Kong to speak of, NONE.

FIVE MINUTES OF RESEARCH WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU THAT.

And if you think the rest of China is socialist in anything but name you have an extremely poor understanding of what socialism means.

[unitedwecouldstand]

Watch the vidio again, and see if there is a point to be made. Then read my ignorant response to off topic responses.

Hope your not implying that Welfare and socialism would help Hong Kong? Please take about 5 minutes to research this countries celibration of Thanksgiving. Peace

[therepublicofHK]

unitedwecouldstand: It's spelt 'video', 'country's' and 'celebration'

Whether socialism (government ownership of the means of production & distribution) helps depends on its efficiency & extent along with many other issues, such as what form of socialism one is referring to.

To deride socialism because you can't tell the difference between the many variants of socialism vis-a-vis communism is not a discussion worth having.

Regardless, socialism in Hong Kong is not practical

[unitedwecouldstand]

Thanks for the spell check, and reply.

Funny is the expression to you'z peoples, and you interpritation of my knowledge and/or ingnorance of socialism. A very liberal response as always.

I hate that any individual would have to live like those in this 'video'. I've been in homes and seen families here in the Great USA, and they equally needs our support.

Only point and claim I will make is that they need a hand up, not a hand out. Peace!

[therepublicofHK]

unitedwecouldstand: As for social welfare that would absolutely help, currently 1/3 of HK lives in public housing, this is obviously still not enough with many in Hong Kong unable to afford even food yet alone market rent. Poverty is a real issue in Hong Kong as it is in the US.

It bewilders me how one scoffs at social welfare. To do so is to scoff at an altruistic society, basic human dignity and the plight of the desperate. I hope your not implying that.

[zentonil]

It bewilders me how you can make a correlation between social welfare and altruism. Social welfare is theft, period. A TRULY altruistic society would support the plight of the desperate through voluntary support and charity. Any government programs are based on the redistribution of wealth through threat of force and it punishes those who live responsibly. I think THAT is what he was implying.

[therepublicofHK]

If you were altruistic then you should have no problem in parting with some of your wealth to help others, by taxes or otherwise, rather than greedily hoarding it for personal excesses

I may not like paying tax, but I consider it is my duty as a citizen & I support a govt. who redistributes tax in a manner that benefits all, but the needy first

Sadly volunteer work is not always practical & charity usually lacks infrastructure. The US & HK are clear examples of the failings in such thinking

[zentonil]

"I may not like paying tax, but I consider it is my duty as a citizen & I support a govt. who redistributes tax in a manner that benefits all, but the needy first"

So as a matter of faith you throw your earned labour away to bureaucrats that may or may not support social programs that you would like to see implemented under the assumption that it will be in "a manner that benefits all."

You are no different then those who trust God to perform miracles on their behalf.

[zentonil]

The US is a shill of corporatism, it hasn't promoted a freedom for more than a century. Free markets have always been the scapegoat of schemers and controllers, people who want to influence your life rather than give you the dignity to create the reality you believe in. You might have more free time for volunteering than you'd expect if there was no income tax and the dollars you work for didn't constantly have their worth devalued.

[therepublicofHK]

zentonil: That's a rather offensive & emotive way of putting it, its also incorrect

I don't go on faith, nor did I EVER say anything of the sort. I'm afraid your imagination has got the best of you.

I study what welfare is offered and vote for the government that will, in my opinion, offer that which is best dependant on circumstance. If it is a lost cause, such as in the US, then I either protest or immigrate to a country with similar values to my own.

[zentonil]

If charity lacks infrastructure, I would gladly donate to R&D of technology to improve the receptivity of charitable organizations. Think of how far we could advance in a system of voluntary support with all the wasted earning of people that go to ineffective programs that don't reflect peoples needs, campaigns that pander for more of your money, scandals, bureaucracy...

[therepublicofHK]

If I can't appeal to human empathy then perhaps I can appeal to greed: There is a correlation between crime & social spending.

Tax is a reality, I would gladly pay an extra 15% tax (comparison US vs. Australia) on my income, if anything but to bribe the dregs of society not to rob me or my loved ones, sleep in my parks or turn to radicalism out of desperation. Plus I get to enjoy free healthcare, education & unemployment benefits should I need it.

Unconvinced? There's always Somalia...

[zentonil]

I never said that I oppose social spending, only if it is done on my behalf, without consent.

Rape is a reality, would you gladly wear a veil to bribe those dregs, or would you try to change the way things were?

I would gladly pay %15 extra than I do on taxes, to support programs to give opportunities to those who are desperate and to kick the pathetic out of my parks.

"Free" healthcare is pure framing, socialist healthcare artifically RAISES the true costs of medicine.

[therepublicofHK]

zentonil: Your analogy about 'rape' is vulgar and irrelevant.

Regarding your answer; expressed with true greed. I'm afraid it earns my contempt, but, in essence, you are saying you would pay for a welfare system that works. I suggest that it is the responsibility of government to fulfil that role. Charities should take up the slack.

Care to elaborate how universal healthcare raises costs, given economies of scale, social cost & reduced burdens on employers?

[zentonil]

Unemployment benefits encourage people to be lazy, don't feed the ducks. I've seen it, I work with people who take winter off because they "don't like the cold" and won't work part-time because EI "pays as good." The government puts EI surplus in their general revenue, so they have an incentive to deny claims who rightly deserve it because they pay into it every check. We survived without welfare until the 20th century, why so necessary now?

[therepublicofHK]

zentonil: Further on your point, I can't comment on your specific EI example as I'm not familiar with welfare system in question.

I can say, however, that welfare should be structured in a way to encourage employment, as very few people wish to exist in an idle state, but it should not be in a manner that would allow one to starve unless they, as individuals, are determined to do so

Why now? Altruism, lower crime, improved quality of life, higher consumer spending & to avoid extremism

[therepublicofHK]

zentonil: I am curious to the merits of your argument. I have yet to hear the arguments against social welfare being made convincingly outside the domain of greed. Or erroneous arguments that it will 'bankrupt' governments. Lowering incentive to work has merit, but can be countered by conditional welfare (i.e, workfare) & is rendered moot by over 95% employment in places with generous social security.

The issue of theft relating directly welfare is a new one... Would you care to elaborate?

[zentonil]

I will gladly elaborate in simple terms (no condescendence intended).

The government has an authority on force. You don't pay taxes, you go to jail. Don't agree to where your tax money goes? Too bad. Most governments have a slim majority, so about half the population doesn't support where a large chunk of the budget (their earnings) are being spent. That is theft, pure and simple. Centralization will always distort the reflection of our values and needs. Politicians are given a market of power.

[therepublicofHK]

znetonil: none taken.

Those are big assumptions even in simple terms. Taxes are, however a reality for government to function, there will be many who will not fully agree how their taxes are spent, but, unless it is grossly mismanaged, most accept the status quo, or they revolt or immigrate.

If one accepts then it is not theft. To exist in a society there must be some conformity to the social contract. Somalia is the exception, but even then warlords take your earnings & give nothing in return

[LeoHareMusic]

Thanks for clearing that up. That's some sound economic theory, unitedwecouldstand. We're getting groceries later today, I'll try it then. When the cashier tells us what we owe, I'll say "Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you." When I write out our rent and utility checks, I'll just write that where it says Amount. Thanks for the "real answers." Peace!

[unitedwecouldstand]

LOL ! So my response to an off topic response has provided another off topic response.

So if you think that my response was somehow an answer to economics, then maybe you do need help paying your bills, writing checks, and buying food.

[zentonil]

So when I go out for groceries, should I say, "I owe you nothing because you are such a kind altruistic soul I doubt you really want me to pay, I doubt you want a paycheck from your boss and I'm sure the farmers don't want to be paid for their labour!"?

[LeoHareMusic]

I was responding to another comment when I said that. My comment was entirely sarcastic.

[eachtem]

This Breaks My Heart! :(,

[SylvianRues]

Look whats happening wake up

[themengsk176]

LOL! I am sorry, it's innappropriate to laugh, but it really is a small world when you see a homeless, well spoken Anglo Saxon man sleeping under a desk in Hong Kong.

[dennischan88]

A homeless white dude in Hong Kong! This white dude must be on crack.

These reports should check out streets on LA downtown. Bunch of homeless people from LA downtown all the way to Santa Monica. Every big cities in the world has homeless problem. The homeless problem could indicate Captalism does not work, and the system is falling apart.

To the western bias reporters: "Look at yourself in the mirror before pointing fingers at others."

[zentonil]

What are you even trying to say? What did "this white dude" even say to suggest he's tripping out? I've also heard that there is a huge homeless problem in LA, but I would place the blame purely on the delusional dreams of wannabe superstars. One could also suggest the homeless problem could indicate capitalism does work, and the system is functioning as it should. On what basis do you value "workability" of an economic system?

[dennischan88]

Most of the homeless people in LA does not have any delusion dream of being a superstar. 50% of the homeless people in LA are Vietnam veterans. They have some sore of mental illess after the Vietnam war. The government doesn't take care these guys. The other 50% of homeless people are alcoholic or people who are on crack. The homeless problem has nothing to do with captialism.

[zentonil]

Do you have any facts to support those numbers? What the fuck are Vietnam veterans doing in LA? You're the one who suggested a link between capitalism and homelessness by the way...

[dennischan88]

I am social worker asxhole

[zentonil]

Sure, that's fantastic. I'm a carpenter, but that doesn't mean I could explain how to build a stadium. How many homeless are in LA and how many are Vietnam veterans? I'm curious.

[zentonil]

Where is this western bias? Where is the finger pointing? The reporter is commenting on the consequences of the global financial crisis, that is all!

[bvllets]

Did you guys ever see the Aggro-Crag from that old tv show GUTS?

That shit was neat man.

[tung2sai]

Hmm...there's homeless in every urban area in the world. Some places are much more worse than these conditions, nonetheless it's still an important stance to work on.

I thought Al Jazeera might show something more informative, but this is nothing new, censored or mind-boggling.

[uru86]

Hmmm....so this is what the most "free" economy in the world looks likes, disgusting.

[zentonil]

I thought their living conditions reminded me very much of hostels that I've lived in. Compare their living conditions with the rest of China. Your reaction to this article is purely whimsical and has no basis in fact.

[uru86]

Garbage, you are compaing a country with a per capita income of $6000 with Hong Kong which is richer than some Western countries...and people still live that? Of course in the world of the absurd, your arguments would hold some water...but apples and oranges cannot be compared.

[zentonil]

Do you think Hong Kong would be so affluent without "the most free economy in the world"? How do you think Hong Kong became so rich? Of course there will still be poor in any society, do you truly believe success is contagious, as if the achievements of a few will bring prosperity to the rest of the country? How does the country transform itself into an orange, as if it is a special case because it has benefited from sane economic policy?

[uru86]

Hong Kong became affluent because of imperialism, anyone with an idea of history would know that. Of course Hong Kong would be rich when the rest of China was unstable and being plundered by European and Japanese imperialists. There was a massive transfer of capital from China to HK. Nevermind the pivtol role played by Opium...but the mythology of the neoclassical crap of freedom is persuasive to the undereducated. :D

[zentonil]

So you're trying to tell me that drug trafficking and theft is the sole reason for an entire population increasing their standard of living? India's economy thrived while under British rule. Using your logic, one would assume India would destabilize while massively benefiting Britain, which was not the case. Is it so unbearable to think that banking and commerce contributed to the modernization of these nations?

[uru86]

India's economy thrived? Thats why at the end of British rule its share of world GDP was significantly lower than at the beginning? Nevermind the millions of peasants who died of starvation under British rule, something that has not happened after the Brits left. Nevermind the British destroying Indian cotton industry that was underselling British products therefore threatening the Industrial Revolution. The UK used India as a tax base to finance its empire, and export its goods. No more myths!

[zentonil]

A smug attitude doesn't bestow any credibility to your statements, try to rely on the weight of your claims rather than the size of your ego. I was under the impression that it was altruistic socialism that was so persuasive to the uneducated, or were those throngs of Russian and Chinese peasants all closet intellectuals? I never see revolutions demanding free markets...

[uru86]

Its smug because I am dealing with an incompetent with a undergraduate education at best who thinks he knows it all. My weight of my arguments have been proven by your utter lack of rebuttal. The fact is that countries like the USSR or China under communist rule say their standards of living literally double (before market reforms). Revolutions do not demand "free markets" because free markets are unnatural and cause people to react negatively. Read Polanyi, read a book!

[cromespyder]

uru86, you show YOUR ignorance by praising jewish created and funded communism in ussr and china. sure, you'd have to be a fool to think today's system is ideal,however, you are an uninformed ignoramus for praising jew communism, which was NOT created for the benefit of the working class, and destroyed hundreds of million of lives.

[uru86]

And capitalism never killed anyone, and did not destroy millions of people's lives?All I said was a fact, that the USSR and China say the biggest jumps in living standards under socialism. Deal with it.

[cromespyder]

communism was a horrible thing for china and USSR, period, even worse than capitalism which is garbage also, basically neo-feudalism. jew communism is not a solution to capitalism.

[uru86]

I am not prepared to say that socialism was worse than post-Soviet Russia, if it wasn't for the stolen 1996 election Russia would be socialist again. Also, one of the biggest threats to the Chinese "Communist" Party, ironically is Maoism which is growing again among the intellectuals and the working classes. Neither capitalism nor communism are ideal, they both lead to the same ends of societal and environmental destruction.

[achong007]

It doesn't matter what ideals you choose. All it takes is a few people being dishonest to set a disaster in motion.

[jondica]

You're disregarding the distribution of wealth here.

[jondica]

Sorry, that was intended at uru86's comment: "Garbage, you are compaing a country with a per capita income of $6000 with Hong Kong which is richer than some Western countries...and people still live that? Of course in the world of the absurd, your arguments would hold some water...but apples and oranges cannot be compared."

[uru86]

What about it?

[sqekcx]

@uru86

and what's more disgusting than this is that there are a lot more people like these or even in worse conditions in countries around the world, free economy or not

[cragww]

Homeless in Hong Kong. Fix you's own country up first then worry about your own

Peace

[lyden2006]

"Homeless in Hong Kong. Fix you's own country up first then worry about your own

Peace"

..and I managed to stop my fist just inches away from his face.

[cragww]

Ha ha, love you to try dickface

[teemuruskeepaa]

Hey you imperialist, you do not have the right to walk in people's homes, ignore the residents and talk to your audience as if they weren't they. Shame on you!