Hay every body in here. I want to ask you all. How many time read the bible a day and trying to follow the bible teaching. SDA trying to following the bible teaching. May be they left some thing to keep. If they know their left . They will try to keep that. Don't be jealous them. Cain jealous Abel because Abel is listen to the God word and God answer with fire Abel obedient . Cain brought good fruits by planting himself. Good. But God want sheep blood. Sunday keeper and other religion teaching
At present, Seventh-day Adventist health style, based on the Biblical secrets of health, one of which is cited here, is giving us about a decade of extra healthy life for our members world wide. The question isn't "Why do Adventists observe Deuteronomy 14 and Leviticus 11?" but "Why isn't everybody else doing the same, as it appears it is working very well for them, and it is...after all in the Bible?"
Christ is all i need. With the help of the holy spirit to guide me to the cross every day. Not the law. The law does not save. the law will not earn my way to heaven. My faith in christ will. I am saved by grace. The blood of christ washes my sins away for evermore. The law is temporary..... Jesus is alive and well forever. I am free in christ. God bless.
@jams959 Christ is also all I need. But he did say that if you love me you will keep my commandments. So, because we love Christ we try to keep his laws.
Christ is all i need. With the help of the holy spirit to guide me to the cross every day. Not the law. The law does not save. the law will not earn my way to heaven. My faith in christ will. I am saved by grace. The blood of christ washes my sins away for evermore. The law is temporary..... Jesus is alive and well forever. I am free in christ. God bless.
SDA teachings need to be exposed in a public forum like this because they are based on a deadly mix of law and grace.The Law of Moses was consummated by Christ.Christians are not under law for salvation but under Christ and that is a huge difference.The Old Cov was law and death; the New Cov is Spirit and life. The two ministries cannot be mixed. Whilst there is continuity and discontinuity between the two, the methods are totally different. One was law on stone the other is law in the heart
That's actually a good point, although It is a health principle, not a law. Do you believe that if a jew or israelite, drink poison and kills him, it won't kill you because you are not a jew.? It will, because our bodies are similar, we are human beens with similar anatomy and physiology. My point is that if it was good (healthwise) for the israelites, it is good for you. And it is backed by science, try it! it won't hurt you. You'll thank me.
I'm an SDA member, we are not obliged to keep the dietry laws, we choose to keep them because we love God and want to "be in health, even as (our) soul prospereth". God bless.
@JarlEadwulf You said:" we are not obliged to keep the dietry laws ..."
" Yet the distinction between clean and unclean animals dates back to Noah's day - long before Israel existed. As principles of health, these dietary laws carry with them an ongoing OBLIGATION." - Fundamental Belief No. 22 (Christan Behavior), "Seventh-day Adventists Believe", page 319.This book is a publication of the Ministerial Association,General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, Silver Springs,USA)
@JarlEadwulf Amen and amen.. obedience is a symptom of love, as love grows and matures so does our desire to please our creator....besides that..have you seen what they shoot into the meat you may eat?...and pigs????standing in it's own feces, fed meal made from the meat of it's own kind, eating a prolapse ass out of his cousin...there's a farm visual for ya!...sry if I offended anyone's delicate feelings :) sometimes the alberta boys comes through...lol
@JarlEadwulf So who has the authority brother to change what was written? I love you guys bit you have been taught wrong on some things and the church as a whole needs to come back to Torah in Yeshua the Messiah.
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Note: Written where? In the Torah (OT) the NT didn't exist yet. EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.... What was nailed to the cross?? Stoning ppl for their sins, sacrificing animals and the traditions that men had added to Gods word. Not even the smallest part of Gods laws are to be ignored today. Matthew 5:17-20
I'm not an SDA member but I don't understand why they get attacked so often. It doesn't take a genius to understand the Bible. You know what it does take? The Holy Spirit. The Bible is not for ones own private interpretation. It was written by inspiration from the Holy Spirit and it takes the same to understand it. Jesus cleary stated the importance of Gods words...........
@JesusFTW777 Thanks man it's great to hear someone with Christ's love in their heart. It's sad how so many Christians today spend their time attacking the beliefs of others who hatred, venom and sarcasm instead of maybe just telling them why you believe differently and showing them from the Bible.
Christians should try to win people to Christ, not push them away from Christ. The people we attack are created by God and He loves them so much.
@JesusFTW777 Hello Brother, The Bible is clear do not take away or add to it. Deut 4:2 and Rev 22:19. Even Yeshua/Jesus said to listen to Moses to understand His words John 5:45-47
@NationalApostasy Yeah, I agree with you on this point. However, the SDA church has chosen some OT commandments to keep & ignore others recorded in the Torah.
@NationalApostasy What is your point about Leviticus 18:22? "Truthinquirer" & "rojaszela" had earlier posted comments relating to that verse but I can't find yours.
@wassuptoday First of all the blue tassel was like a "Blue Law" meant to remind the Israelites of God's law (todays blue laws don't). Second of all, you point out that the God's law is to be written on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). The "Law" here referred to is the Torah, not just the 10 commandments. If we ignore things like Leviticus 18:22, then the whole Law isn't in our hearts. However, poking fun at some law reminding people of the law is missing the point!
@NationalApostasy You said:"If we ignore things like Leviticus 18:22, then the whole Law isn't in our hearts."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10(NIV):"Neither the sexually immoral nor ...men who have sex with men ... will inherit the kingdom of God."(see also Romans Chapter 1).
Sorry my friend that is just you putting your own slant on it, God clearly say's clean by 7 and unclean by 2:
Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
He then goes on to say to do the same for fowls of the air:
Gen 7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. Nothing about 7 unclean!!
It's in you your own statement my friend, you quoted " Gen 8:20 And Noah built an altar unto the Lord; and took of every CLEAN beast and of every CLEAN fowl and offered burnt offerings on the altar.”
Only clean animals and fowls were to be offered!! If there wasn't such a thing as clean and unclean fowls, it would have just said fowl, be honest with yourself.
@theonewillcome Yes, only clean fowls could be sacrificed. Abd only clean fowls could enter the Ark by sevens according to YOUR opinion, right? So, do you believe that every fowl in Noah's time was clean & it was only at Sinai that the fowls were divided into 2 groups - the clean & the unclean? If so , then you should be eating every type of fowl as there were all clean in Noah's time long before Sinai.
God was talking to Noah about clean and unclean foods long before any law on Sinai, that is because God's law is eternal, His kingdom must have laws else there would be anarchy, hence why the planet is in such disarray, people clearly think they know better than God, you should be careful about your mocking approach my friend, it will get you in a lot of trouble, ask God for wisdom.
@theonewillcome Gen 7:3 says,"Of fowls also of the air by SEVENS." Both clean & unclean fowls were brought into the ark by sevens.So you could eat vultures & owls since they were brought by sevens into the ark, right?The distinction between clean & unclean animals was a religious matter because only clean animals could be sacrificed to God.Gen 8:20:"“And Noah built an altar unto the Lord;and took of every clean beast and of every clean fowl and offered burnt offerings on the altar.”
@theonewillcome You said, "Nothing about 7 unclean!!"Nothing about 2 unclean either!So do you believe that ONLY clean flowls were taken into the Ark?You said earlier,"God was talking to Noah about clean and unclean foods long before any law on Sinai."But after the Flood God also said,"Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.".Also,Abel made animal sacrifices.So how about your eating unclean food also & making animals sacrifices which were practised long before Sinai?
Gen 7:2 Of every CLEAN beast thou shalt take to thee by SEVENS, the male and his female: and of beasts that are NOT CLEAN by TWO, the male and his female.
If fowls were only clean there would be no need to specify:
Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every CLEAN beast, and of every CLEAN fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
It is quite easy, the evidence is there if you want to believe it. My question to you would be, firstly does God change? and secondly, did God just decide He would make an clean bird, which you say are all birds, into an unclean bird?:
Lev 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
Lev 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15 Every raven after his kind; 16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
I don't give opinions, it clearly states CLEAN, above are listed the unclean!
@theonewillcome You asked: "He would make an clean bird, which you say are all birds, into an unclean bird?"
Gen 7:3 says:"Of fowls also of the air by sevens..." Pleas note that the verse doesn't say whether they were clean or unclean."
In an earlier comment I asked you: "And only clean fowls could enter the Ark by sevens according to YOUR opinion, right?" So let's have your answer - yes or no?
It doesn't matter to me how many went in, now you are just changing the subject, the point we are discussing is that there have always been clean and unclean animals, long before any levitical law, including birds and insects, God does not change.
Beasts of every description, the fiercest as well as the most gentle, were seen coming from mountain and forest and quietly making their way toward the ark. A noise as of a rushing wind was heard, and lo, birds were flocking from all directions, their numbers darkening the heavens,
and in perfect order they passed to the ark. Animals obeyed the command of God, while men were disobedient. Guided by holy angels, they "went in two and two unto Noah into the ark," and the clean beasts by sevens.
@theonewillcome You said:"It doesn't matter to me how many went in" and then you gave a number by quoting EGW: "...and the clean beasts by sevens." :-) And you have evaded my question: "So, how did the unclean fowls go into the ark - by sevens or by twos?" If you think that the unclean fowls also (just like the unclean beasts) went in by twos, please quote the Bible text to support your answer.
My friend it is pointless to discuss anything with you, you are not looking for truth, you are looking for error and arguments, The question had nothing to do with how many, it was to do with the fact that God does not change and that there have always been clean and unclean. It is clearly portrayed to me that unclean were by 2 and clean by 7, but because it doesn't give you it as clear as you'd like it to be, you reject it.
@theonewillcome You said:"It is clearly portrayed to me that unclean were by 2 and clean by 7."
That rule applied to beasts (animals) only (Gen 7:2). Moses was inspired by God to record that the fowls (birds) went into the ark by sevens (Gen 7:3). So do you believe that the fowls were all clean since they went into the ark by sevens as it wasn't recorded that some went in by twos?
Everything stems from this PRINCIPLE, God said you shall not kill, but later In Matt 5 we see that to hate is also to murder, God is showing us a principle that we must apply in all aspects of our lives, God shows us clearly throughout the Bible that 7 is a perfect No, a No of completeness, when applies 7 to clean beasts and 2 to unclean, the same principle is applied throughout.
God is saying the same for fowls, the reason for that is that there would be more needed for sacrifices and for food, whereas unclean animals birds and insects would not fall into this category and therefore would only be by 2, you do not need this to be written for it to be so.
On that same principle, you have stated that they were all clean because it wasn't written in that verse, but I have shown you that in Leviticus, God clearly said that there are unclean birds and He does not change.
We are to search the scriptures, line upon line for the truth, we are not to take one line and turn it into a thus sayeth the Lord when there are other factors to consider, this is what you are trying to do and turn the scriptures into a lie!!
@theonewillcome You said,"you have stated that they were all clean."
I never stated the fowls were all clean. I only asked you whether they were all clean since it's recorded that they went into the ark by sevens (Gen 7:3) & there's no record that they went in by twos. Also Gen 7:8 doesn't say that the fowls went into the ark by twos & by sevens.
@theonewillcome You said:"God is saying the same for fowls, the reason for that is that there would be more needed for sacrifices and for food."
Actually Gen 6:19-20 says that God told Noah to keep every living thing "ALIVE" in the ark. So no creatures were killed in the ark to feed Noah & his family.Gen 8:20 doesn't prove that meat-eating was practised but only that clean animals & fowls could be sacrificed.Gen 9:2- 3 confirms that meat-eating was permitted after the Flood.
Yes my friend, I do not deny God gave them flesh for food, but only clean flesh was considered food and it was only because there was nothing else to eat. God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, he shows us the end from the beginning:
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
God is a restorer, He doesn't change, He wants to restore us to how things were, why do you think He fed them manna?
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Why did God plague the Israelites for wanting Quail in the desert?
@theonewillcome You said: “I do not deny God gave them flesh for food, but only clean flesh was considered food and it was only because there was nothing else to eat.”
Noah & his family didn’t kill any animals nor birds for food while in the ark.
Genesis 6:21 (NIV)”You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."
Genesis 6:21 (New Living Translation)”And be sure to take on board enough food for your family and for all the animals."
That is right my friend, I do not believe Noah was eating flesh on the Ark, but God said afterwards that all flesh (meaning clean animals) Gen 9:3 was given to man for food, I do however believe that this was only a temporary measure, based upon God's original diet.
@theonewillcome You said:” I do however believe that this was only a temporary measure, based upon God's original diet.” Jesus didn’t advocate vegetarianism. Luke 22:7-8"Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover LAMB had to be sacrificed.And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying,"Go and prepare the Passover for us,so that WE may eat it.”Rom 14:17(NLT)”For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink ..." God loves the sweet savor of meat sacrifices (Lev 1:9 &13)
Jesus was God, who came as a man, He is our creator, He created the world and gave us fruit, nuts, vegetables, and grains to eat, that is the original diet from Eden. God wishes us to return to this diet, He knew that the children of Israel would continue to eat flesh, why did He plague them in the desert when they ate quail?
My friend, you need to look deeper, God loves His children, when Christ came food was not high on the agenda, they were eating the clean foods, read Daniel 1, it is telling us something, God is patient with us, a vegetarian diet is better for us, He wants to restore us. Will you be eating flesh in heaven? No!! So why here?
Flesh today is not fit for consumption, why do you think many people round the world who are not religious are turning to be vegetarian? Science is continually being shown that fruit and veg, nuts and grains have all the things we need to keep us fit and healthy. I have been a vegetarian for just over 2 years, I feel healthier now than I ever did.
God's people will not be miraculously healing people in the last days, they will be restoring people through natural remedies, Satan will have a free reign, he will be making people sick and then withdrawing it, people will be deceived by his miracles, the evidence will be shown by the example of God's true people, by their true loving character, not by miracles.
@theonewillcome You said:” I have been a vegetarian for just over 2 years, I feel healthier now than I ever did.”
Nowadays raw materials for organic-based fertilizers may contain pelletized pig’s blood, pig manure, bat & seabird guano and meat from any type of fish & shellfish. Bone meal fertilzer may contain crushed pig bones & bones of any type of fish. So is it okay if an SDA consume vegetables & fruits contaminated by such fertilizers?
My friend, God is not a tyrant, He expects us to act according to our consciences ok. remeber Paul when He was bitten by the snake? Tell me, was the snake any less poisonous, or was it because God prevented it from hurting him due to His faith? If therefore, I follow what I believe to be right according to the light given to me and my heart dictates, God will bless what I eat, even if it is not 100%.
If however, I know that a particular brand of food is using poisons in it's fertilizer and I continue to eat from it, then it is different, if I don't do something about it, then I am knowlingly poisoning my body, God will not bless me and I will suffer through my own actions. We must eat the best food we can find, till the time comes we will have to flee and God will provide via His angels.
@theonewillcome You said:"We must eat the best food we can find."
"The church recognizes that one's diet is a personal choice, and that it has no impact on a person's salvation..." (from the article,"Why Be SDA?"posted by Hudson (MA) SDA church). By the way, why does God wish to make a feast of fat & marrow if He's unhappy about meat-eating? Isaiah 25:6(KJV)"And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things ... of fat things full of marrow ..."
My friend, firstly that statement is a lie, people in our Church also say that prophecy has no bearing on our salvation. What people fail to realize, it is the truth that sets us free, without the truth Satan will deceive us:
The most terrible diseases are the sure result of incontinence that is pursued. And the animal propensities are inflamed by gross living, practices, especially by a flesh diet. {SpM 209.3}
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
If something is bad for you, yet you eat it, are you not purposely destroying your body?
Had the use of flesh been essential to health and strength, animal food would have been included in the diet appointed man in the beginning. {CG 384.1}
In regards to the quotes you gave me, it has nothing to do with literal flesh eating, it refers to understanding the things that are hidden within, the depths of knowledge that will make a man great. When it refers to Milk, Bread and Honey, it is not talking about literal foods, it is talking about His word!
Well I can certainly see your humour, but the same principle is applied throughout our walk with Christ, if God tells us not to do something, then should we not heed His council, do you not think God know's better than us?
This is man's problem, we think we know better than God:
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
I am around 99% vegan, I may on the odd occasion have pasta that contains egg, generally speaking though, I eat nuts, grains, fruits and vegetables. I have not been ill for well over a year, not even a cold. I feel great, I sleep better, I have more energy, my mind is more alert and I look younger.
@theonewillcome Congratulations on your feeling healthier & looking younger based on a vegan diet!
If you wish to switch over completely to the Original Diet, then I guess you have to lay off eggs & dairy products as well as seedless fruits (e.g. seedless grapes, seedless pineapple, bananas) & seedless vegetables (e.g. yams, potatoes, onions). Gen 1:29 (NIV):"Then God said, “I give you every SEED-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with SEED IN IT.
You know that God judges you according to the wicked things in your heart?
I don't eat dairy products, I don't eat genetically modified foods, as for bananas and pineaples, you have no idea what you are talking about. When man fell, God gave them vegetables, we need them until we are restored, they were given in the Garden of Eden, not after! Being clever is not christlike, it is from another spirit.
Sorry I misunderstood you there, but I did explain to you that If I know that food is genetically modified, I won't eat it, that would therefore include Bananas and Pineapples. I do not eat only raw food, but I do eat a lot of nuts, salad and fruit which is raw.
@theonewillcome You said:"..you obviously don't believe that we should be vegetarians, that is up to you, I will let you take it up with your creator."
So your opinion is that it is still a sin to eat meat even though the SDA church doesn't forbid it, right? (see "Seventh-day Adventists Believe" pages 318-319).
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
"Again I refer to the diet question. We cannot now do as we have ventured to do in the past in regard to meat-eating. It has always been a curse to the human family, but now it is made particularly so in the curse which God has pronounced upon the herds of the field, because of man's transgression and sins."
"The disease upon animals is becoming more and more common, and our only safety now is in leaving meat entirely alone. The most aggravated diseases are now prevalent, and the very last thing that physicians who are enlightened should do, is to advise patients to eat meat. It is in eating meat so largely in the country that men and women are becoming demoralized, their blood corrupted."
"and disease planted in their systems. Because of meat-eating, many die, and they do not understand the cause. If the truth were known, it would bear the testimony it was the flesh of animals that passed through death. The thought of feeding upon dead flesh is repulsive, but there is something in meat-eating: we partake of diseased, dead flesh, and this sows it seeds of corruption in the human organism."
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
@theonewillcome You quoted EGW's reference to "the curse which God has pronounced upon the herds of the field, because of man's transgression and sins."
God has also pronounced a curse on the ground (Genesis 3:17) and He rejected Cain's offering of fruit from the ground (Gen 4:3).
This is a bit of a pointless discussion, you obviously don't believe that we should be vegetarians, that is up to you, I will let you take it up with your creator, we will all meet Him very soon.
These laws are for both gentile and jew alike, God does not change, the ceremonial laws were not wrong, there is just no need for them as Christ fulfilled them. But to say that God changes His mind about what food is good to eat and not is nonsense, there is nothing written plainly about homosexuality in the 10 commandments, but I can assure you it is in there.
@theonewillcome You said,"These laws are both for gentile & jew alike."
The stranger OUTSIDE thy gates was NOT commanded to keep the sabbath.(Ex 20:10).The sabbath was "a sign between Me & the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FO EVER"(Ex 31:17)."For ever" indicates that the sign couldn't be altered to include the Gentiles.In fact,in Deut 7:2 God didn't want the Israelites to make any covenant (which could include Sabbath-keeping) with the Gentiles but to destroy them.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
@theonewillcome Regarding eunuchs, Deut 23:1 says, "No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD (NIV).” In Isaiah 39:6-7 it was predicted that Jewish
males would be taken into Babylonian captivity & castrated but later, in the restored Temple, God would command that its doors be opened to eunuchs (whether Jewish or those who had agreed to "take hold of my covenant") thus allowing them to be accepted within the Jewish religious community.
You are reading too much into the literal requirements, you need to understand the spiritual picture. It is God's intention that all men shall be saved and that all men will be saved through Christ, the only true Israelite!!
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
@theonewillcome If Christ is still a true Israelite, then He would have to be a priest of the Levitical order. But He is now a high priest after the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:1-28) and Melchizedek wasn't a Jew.
No he wasn't a literal Jew, but He like Christ was a spiritual Jew, as we walk after the spirit and not after the flesh:
Rom 2:28 For HE IS NOT a Jew, which is one OUTWARDLY; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the FLESH: 29 But HE IS a Jew, which is one INWARDLY; and circumcision is that of the heart, IN THE SPIRIT, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
@theonewillcome You said, "... He (Melchizedek) like Christ was a spiritual Jew."
As you're an SDA, please quote a passage from an SDA publication (title of book or magazine & page number) stating that Melchizedek, as you have claimed, was a spiritual Jew.
You have already answered this question of yours when you said earlier that "He like Christ was a spiritual Jew." Now you just need to back up this opinion of yours with a relevant statement from an SDA publication confirming that Melchesidec was actually a spiritual Jew.
It was Christ that spoke through Melchisedec, the priest of the most high God. Melchisedec was not Christ, but he was the voice of God in the world, the representative of the Father.{RH, February 18, 1890 par. 10}
A spiritual Jew is someone who is grafted into the vine of Christ = Melchesidec
@theonewillcome You quoted "Melchisedec was not Christ." (RH, Feb 18,1890).
Here's a quote from Desire of Ages (pg 578):"As they question, "Who is this?" the disciples, filled with the spirit of inspiration, answer this question. In eloquent strains they repeat the prophecies concerning Christ: ...Ask Abraham, he will tell you, It is "Melchizedek King of Salem," King of Peace.Gen. 14:18."
The RH article says that Christ is not Melchisedec(Melchisedec)but the Desire of Ages says He is. :-)
Christ was to fulfill the role that Mechisedec represented, the only one who could fulfill that role was Christ, no one else, that is why they could say that Abraham would call Him Melchisedec, because it is the only person it could refer to.
@theonewillcome You said:"Christ was to fulfill the role that Mechisedec represented, the only one who could fulfill that role was Christ, no one else, that is why they could say that Abraham would call Him Melchisedec, because it is the only person it could refer to."
So what exactly were the duties of Melchisedec, King of Salem?
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.
@theonewillcome Regarding Isa 56:6, it wasn't compulsory for the sons of strangers to keep the Sabbath UNLESS they have decided to join themselves to the Lord and "taketh hold of my covenant." No Gentiles were ever stoned to death for refusing to keep the Sabbath.
That is my whole point, when you believe you are no longer a Gentile, you are an Israelite by adoption into the covenant! All the people of the earth are God's, the Israelites were meant to be a light to the rest of the world, so that all would want to be part of the covenant.
Only after you had made a covenant with God could you be held accountable under the law, of course they couldn't stone Gentiles.
@theonewillcome The branches of the wild olive tree, which were grafted to the cultivated olive tree, draw nutrition from the latter. However, the wild branches are not, and never will become, the same as the roots & branches of the cultivated tree. The Christian church does not partake of all the promises given to the nation of Israel.
My friend what is the vine that they were cut off from?
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
They were cut off from Christ because they didn't believe in Him, they crucified Him, all those Israelites who did believe stayed grafted in (disciples) and all the gentiles who believed partook of the covenant and all became the true spiritual Israel.
And just to confirm my point and to show that what you are saying is nonsense:
Rom 11:23 And they also (The literal fleshly Jews), if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them IN AGAIN.
If they accept Christ they can partake of the covenant promise that is given to ISRAEL, no one else, just ISRAEL, there is not a separate covenant for everyone else, there is just one people!!
@theonewillcome "And so ALL Israel (i.e. the literal fleshy Jews) shall be saved ... For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Romans 11:26-27). Please note that ALL literal Israelites will be saved in the end. Since you, as an SDA, claimed that you have accepted the same covenant promise(s) given to the literal Israelites, can you confidently claim that you & every member of your church will ALL be definitely saved?
Who is Israel??? You are basically saying everyone that was born a fleshly Israelite is saved!!
That is complete nonsense, I suggest you read a little closer, everything is dependent upon faith in the saviour, and obedience to God's commandments through the merits of that saviour. If ALL Israel are to be saved, meaning flesh and blood Israelites, that would mean the Bible is full of lies.
Read what it means to be a true Israelite (Spiritual).
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
We are all saved through a saviour, it's the same promise to everyone, what is it you don't get?
The covenant promise is to Israel, there is no covenant made with anyone else, both old and New Covenants are for Israel, that is why all Israel will be saved, because a true Israelite is grafted into Christ!
@theonewillcome You said:"You are basically saying everyone that was born a fleshly Israelite is saved!!"
Look at Romans 11:26 "And so all Israel SHALL be saved."When Christ returns, there SHALL no doubt be a wholesale miraculous turning of the Jewish people to accept Him as the Savior. What if Christ returns today, are you confident that you & every SDA member have not been given this verdict in the Investigative Judgment:"Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting."
My friend, you do not know God, He will not magically make anyone obey Him, it is a choice, to be an Israelite is a choice, you cannot be born into the kingdom of heaven.
The same principle applies to SDA's, if like ancient Israel they do not humble themselves and allow God to change their hearts through the truth, so that they walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh, they will be cut off! (Wheat and the Tares).
@theonewillcome You said:"The same principle applies to SDA's ... if like ancient Israel they do not humble themselves and allow God to change their hearts through the truth... they will be cut off!"
So I guess that every SDA "must be tested and found without spot or wrinkle or any such thing" in order to pass the Investigative Judgment, right?
Every "person" including yourself, not just members of the SDA Church.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
@theonewillcome You quoted Eph 5:25-27: " That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
As an SDA, WHEN exactly will you be without any spot or wrinkle or any such thing?
How will I know? I am not the one inspecting me, Christ is. All I know is that by faith, by humbling myself and trusting in God, He will finish the work in me He has started, He promises to do it for those who are faithful and obedient:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and PRECIOUS PROMISES: that BY THESE ye might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
You see, your problem is your attitude, you are full of scorn and ridicule, I can no more make you believe than God would force Pharaoh to do His will. I can like Moses only lay things out for you, it is for you to decide whether or not it is true or false. Point is though, unless you have the spirit of truth you will never believe, it is God's spirit that unveils the truth.
It tells us to receive the spirit, we are to come to Him humbly like little children, if we are proud and full of scorn we will never see the truth:
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
No not at all, I do not have a monopoly on anything, but there is only one truth not many, and there is only one way to that truth, and that is through a humble approach with an open heart allowing the holy spirit to open our eyes.
Like I said, if you change you attitude you will find we can be friends, even if we disagree, but we can both seek the truth with all our hearts.
@theonewillcome You said:”…but there is only one truth not many, and there is only one way to that truth.”
The SDA church believes in "progressive revelation" meaning that not all truth is given at once but more of it will be revealed from time to time. Ellen White wrote: “We must not think, "Well, we have all the truth, we understand the main pillars of our faith, and we may rest on this knowledge."The truth is an advancing truth, and we must walk in the increasing light.”(CW p.33)
Please Google for "Sabbath Keeping Churches - Sabbath Keeping Denominations" to view a list of over 500 Sabbath-keeping churches & denominations. Since there are other Sabbath-keeping churches, the SDA church could be in error when it still claims that it's THE remnant church which upholds all the ten commanmdents.
It is not just about Sabbath my friend, Satan doesn't boldly lie to you, he hides his lies in amongst truth. There are individuals within the SDA Church who are in error, there are false doctrines being brought in, but the foundations will not be broken, God will remove all error through the preaching of the 3AM, these messages will separate truth from error at the Sunday law, all those not grounded in the truth will fall.
M friend, if you really had an open heart I could prove to you unequivocally through the prophetic message that the SDA Church is God's Church, if I didn't believe that with all my heart, I would still be looking. Truth does not fear examination, the Church will be purified at the Sunday law which will be soon upon us, all are welcome to the truth!
@theonewillcome 1.You said:” I could prove to you unequivocally through the prophetic message that the SDA Church is God's Church.”
This was the original SDA General Conference’s stand concerning warfare:"...we are compelled to decline all participation in acts of war and bloodshed as being inconsistent with the duties enjoined upon us by our divine Master toward our enemies and toward all mankind." (R & H 5/23, 1865). …(next)
@theonewillcome 2. contd … However, in 1914 the SDA East German Union Conference decided that Adventists could serve in the German army, carry arms & defend the country on the Sabbath. About 4,000 Adventists in Germany & elsewhere in Europe were disfellowshipped for upholding the church’s original position on warfare. These disfellowshipped members formed the nucleus of the SDA Reform Movement …(next)
@theonewillcome 3.Contd … The SDA Reform Movement ALSO regards itself as the remnant church. "The Lord will give His message to those who have walked in accordance with the light they have had, and will recognize them as true and faithful, according to the measurement of God. These men will TAKE THE PLACE of those who, having light and knowledge, have walked NOT in the way of the Lord, but in the imagination of their own unsanctified hearts." (EGW - 3SM p 421)...(next)
@theonewillcome 4. Contd … "As for the voice of the General Conference, there is no voice from God through that body that is reliable."(EGW - MR17 p 178). Since both the SDA Church & the SDA Reform Movement promote similar doctrines except that the latter doesn’t allow its members to be involved in warfare based on the original SDA GC’s stand, then how can you be absolutely sure that the SDA Church is the genuine remnant church?
Amen my friend, I do not disagree with what you are saying, but the Church is not the organised body through the General Conference, as you rightly stated, the Church are those who live up to the light they have and are walking in the truth, those within the Church who walk in the truth will stand in the time of trouble and take the message to those outside the church who will receive it, this is the loud cry.
@theonewillcome You said:"those within the Church who walk in the truth will stand in the time of trouble and take the message to those outside the church who will receive it, this is the loud cry." Ellen G White wrote:"We are not saved as a sect; no denominational name has any virtue to bring us into favor with God. We are saved individually as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ."(RH, 02/10/1891, par 5)
Firstly my friend, we are not a sect, so please don't be insultive, I suggest you look up the word and it's understanding. Secondly, there is only one Church, one Truth and one message, God will use this people to take this one message of truth to all those who have not heard it, yet who He knows when they hear it, will receive it with joy, "not my might, not by power, but by my spirit saith the Lord."
God's Church is not perfect yet, hence the wheat and the tares must grow together, the messages of the 3 Angels will separate the wheat from the dross at the coming SUNday law, then the Valley of the dead dry bones shall stand on it's feet as a mighty army (Ezek 37) and go forth under the spirit's mighty power.
But Ellen White said so. Thesaurus. com's definition of "sect" = a school of thought (some synonyms = church, denomination, creed). You refer to the coming Sunday law & so how exactly will this law be enforced taking into account the current major religious groups: Christians 33% Muslims 21% Atheists 16% Hindus 14% , Buddhism 6% & Chinese traditionalists 6% and that shopping malls stay open 7 days a week
If we are God's Church let's say, and we proclaim the truth, and that truth originates from the creator, then surely everyone else who differentiates from that truth are the sect, yes?
Even though I don't agree, I guess I would rather be branded alongside Jesus than in agreement with man:
Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:
Peter followed the Flesh and not the spirit, I cannot say how I will be when that time comes, but I know not to rely on myself, we are told to trust in God, in our weakness He is strong (2 Cor 12:9), if I trust in my strength I have fallen already, we must make the choice and believe that God will strengthen us.
My response will be dependent upon how I have spent my probationary time in prayer, reading His word and putting these things into practice. God will not magically save us, we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, our faith will be tested, you would not expect to pass an exam without studying:
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock
Psa 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
My response will be to trust in God and not in myself, to have faith in His promises that I have claimed to myself, and by His grace He will save me because of my trust and obedience to Him.
Psa 50:14 Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
Psa 50:16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? 17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee. 18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers. 19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. 20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.
@theonewillcome You said:"My response will be dependent upon how I have spent my probationary time..."
"The light given me by the Lord ... was that when the people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by REFRAINING from their ORDINARY work on that day, devoting it to MISSIONARY EFFORT." (EGW - 9T p 232). So you've got to imitate Sunday-keepers even though you might receive the mark of the beast. :-)
It has nothing to do with imitating Sunday observers. The law will state that people who work on that day will be punished, however people will be able still to labour for God, doing evangelism and medical missionary work, it has nothing to do with going to Church on Sunday.
@theonewillcome You said:"It has nothing to do with imitating Sunday observers."
EGW advised SDAs to refrain from ordinary (i.e. secular) work on Sunday if the Sunday Law is enforced.But Exodus 20:9 says, "Six days shalt thou labour..." Therefore, SDAs break the 4th commandment if they follow EGW's advice.
What complete nonsense, I have a day off on Sunday's sometimes, does that mean I am breaking the commandment? God is giving us 6 days to do all that we need to do for our selves, go to the scriptures, you'll find the disciples gathering to praise God and then travelling on that day, God is not forcing us to work!
You twist everything because of your own unbelief, anything to try and find a peg to hang your miserable doubts on, I'll say to you the same as Peter said to Simon the sorcerer:
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
@theonewillcome You said:"What complete nonsense, I have a day off on Sunday's sometimes, does that mean I am breaking the commandment."
Read again what EGW says:"Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by REFRAINING from their ORDINARY work on that day." In other words, no type of secular work should be performed on a Sunday. That's breaking the 4th commandment which says you could do so.
@wassuptoday EGW did not suggest nothing be done on that day when the Sunday Law was enforced...but rather to employ it in going door to door and letting people know what the Bible says on these matters, rather than intentionally breaking the law of the land by provoking unnecessary controversy. Let those who pass such laws spend their time rounding up those who have no religious interest of any kind, and are in violation of it...while those who do observe God's law engage in missionary work.
@theonewillcome You asked," What promises were given to Israel?" Has God promised you to purify you in the same way that He will purify the sons of Levi (see Malachi 3:1-3)? Has he promised you that you will be given the opportunity to be chosen as one of the 144,000(see Rev 7:4-8)? Has He promised you that you will reside in the land given to the forefathers of the Israelites (see Ezekiel 36:28)?
All promises go back to Abraham, the promises were given to his seed through Isaac and Jacob (Israel).
Israel is not a piece of land, or a country, it is a decision, it means those who have prevailed with God, who have overcome, it's about our minds, not about flesh and blood, our bodies are corrupt, it's a choice we make whether we are an Israelite or not, nothing more, nothing less.
@theonewillcome You said, " Israel is not a piece of land, or a country."
The salvation of the nation of Israel is described by the expression “ALL Israel SHALL be saved”(Romans 11:27) and that of the non-Jews by “the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.” (Romans 11:25).
Well my friend, if you believe that you will be lost:
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
@theonewillcome You said,"Well my friend, if you believe that you will be lost."
SDA Bible Commentary on Romans 11:26 states" ...The two groups are distinguished throughout the chapter by the Jews being referred to in the third person and the Gentiles in the second. The salvation of the former is described by the expression “all Israel shall be saved”; that of the latter by “the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Do you believe this? :-)
Read colossians 2:16 and decide for yourself
KELLYCASSAGNE27 2 weeks ago
Hay every body in here. I want to ask you all. How many time read the bible a day and trying to follow the bible teaching. SDA trying to following the bible teaching. May be they left some thing to keep. If they know their left . They will try to keep that. Don't be jealous them. Cain jealous Abel because Abel is listen to the God word and God answer with fire Abel obedient . Cain brought good fruits by planting himself. Good. But God want sheep blood. Sunday keeper and other religion teaching
millionthegreat 4 weeks ago
if there are only two types of law, Gods law (the 10 commands) and the mosaic law, tell me then, which law is being referred to in 1 john 3:4????
jogmas12 4 weeks ago
At present, Seventh-day Adventist health style, based on the Biblical secrets of health, one of which is cited here, is giving us about a decade of extra healthy life for our members world wide. The question isn't "Why do Adventists observe Deuteronomy 14 and Leviticus 11?" but "Why isn't everybody else doing the same, as it appears it is working very well for them, and it is...after all in the Bible?"
SkipJohnson777 5 months ago
Christ is all i need. With the help of the holy spirit to guide me to the cross every day. Not the law. The law does not save. the law will not earn my way to heaven. My faith in christ will. I am saved by grace. The blood of christ washes my sins away for evermore. The law is temporary..... Jesus is alive and well forever. I am free in christ. God bless.
jams959 5 months ago
@jams959 Christ is also all I need. But he did say that if you love me you will keep my commandments. So, because we love Christ we try to keep his laws.
Schmaoer 5 months ago
Christ is all i need. With the help of the holy spirit to guide me to the cross every day. Not the law. The law does not save. the law will not earn my way to heaven. My faith in christ will. I am saved by grace. The blood of christ washes my sins away for evermore. The law is temporary..... Jesus is alive and well forever. I am free in christ. God bless.
jams959 5 months ago
SDA teachings need to be exposed in a public forum like this because they are based on a deadly mix of law and grace.The Law of Moses was consummated by Christ.Christians are not under law for salvation but under Christ and that is a huge difference.The Old Cov was law and death; the New Cov is Spirit and life. The two ministries cannot be mixed. Whilst there is continuity and discontinuity between the two, the methods are totally different. One was law on stone the other is law in the heart
brianhyde63 6 months ago
That's actually a good point, although It is a health principle, not a law. Do you believe that if a jew or israelite, drink poison and kills him, it won't kill you because you are not a jew.? It will, because our bodies are similar, we are human beens with similar anatomy and physiology. My point is that if it was good (healthwise) for the israelites, it is good for you. And it is backed by science, try it! it won't hurt you. You'll thank me.
specopdoc 7 months ago
Very nice music by the way, beautiful but sad.
JarlEadwulf 9 months ago
I'm an SDA member, we are not obliged to keep the dietry laws, we choose to keep them because we love God and want to "be in health, even as (our) soul prospereth". God bless.
JarlEadwulf 9 months ago 6
@JarlEadwulf You said:" we are not obliged to keep the dietry laws ..."
" Yet the distinction between clean and unclean animals dates back to Noah's day - long before Israel existed. As principles of health, these dietary laws carry with them an ongoing OBLIGATION." - Fundamental Belief No. 22 (Christan Behavior), "Seventh-day Adventists Believe", page 319.This book is a publication of the Ministerial Association,General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, Silver Springs,USA)
wassuptoday 9 months ago
@JarlEadwulf Amen and amen.. obedience is a symptom of love, as love grows and matures so does our desire to please our creator....besides that..have you seen what they shoot into the meat you may eat?...and pigs????standing in it's own feces, fed meal made from the meat of it's own kind, eating a prolapse ass out of his cousin...there's a farm visual for ya!...sry if I offended anyone's delicate feelings :) sometimes the alberta boys comes through...lol
InfiniteMischief 7 months ago
@JarlEadwulf So who has the authority brother to change what was written? I love you guys bit you have been taught wrong on some things and the church as a whole needs to come back to Torah in Yeshua the Messiah.
paulgem123 4 months ago
(continued) Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Note: Written where? In the Torah (OT) the NT didn't exist yet. EVERY WORD FROM THE MOUTH OF GOD.... What was nailed to the cross?? Stoning ppl for their sins, sacrificing animals and the traditions that men had added to Gods word. Not even the smallest part of Gods laws are to be ignored today. Matthew 5:17-20
JesusFTW777 9 months ago
I'm not an SDA member but I don't understand why they get attacked so often. It doesn't take a genius to understand the Bible. You know what it does take? The Holy Spirit. The Bible is not for ones own private interpretation. It was written by inspiration from the Holy Spirit and it takes the same to understand it. Jesus cleary stated the importance of Gods words...........
JesusFTW777 9 months ago 4
@JesusFTW777 Thanks man it's great to hear someone with Christ's love in their heart. It's sad how so many Christians today spend their time attacking the beliefs of others who hatred, venom and sarcasm instead of maybe just telling them why you believe differently and showing them from the Bible.
Christians should try to win people to Christ, not push them away from Christ. The people we attack are created by God and He loves them so much.
OurSword 7 months ago
@JesusFTW777 Hello Brother, The Bible is clear do not take away or add to it. Deut 4:2 and Rev 22:19. Even Yeshua/Jesus said to listen to Moses to understand His words John 5:45-47
paulgem123 4 months ago
yeah, see, that's my point. the 10 commandments aren't everything.
NationalApostasy 9 months ago
@NationalApostasy Yeah, I agree with you on this point. However, the SDA church has chosen some OT commandments to keep & ignore others recorded in the Torah.
wassuptoday 9 months ago
@wassuptoday true, but they aren't the only Christians guilty of this either.
NationalApostasy 9 months ago
Why do you never respond to my point about Leviticus 18:22? Does it stump you?
NationalApostasy 10 months ago
@NationalApostasy What is your point about Leviticus 18:22? "Truthinquirer" & "rojaszela" had earlier posted comments relating to that verse but I can't find yours.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday First of all the blue tassel was like a "Blue Law" meant to remind the Israelites of God's law (todays blue laws don't). Second of all, you point out that the God's law is to be written on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33). The "Law" here referred to is the Torah, not just the 10 commandments. If we ignore things like Leviticus 18:22, then the whole Law isn't in our hearts. However, poking fun at some law reminding people of the law is missing the point!
NationalApostasy 9 months ago
@NationalApostasy You said:"If we ignore things like Leviticus 18:22, then the whole Law isn't in our hearts."
1 Corinthians 6:9-10(NIV):"Neither the sexually immoral nor ...men who have sex with men ... will inherit the kingdom of God."(see also Romans Chapter 1).
wassuptoday 9 months ago
I can use your logic to ignore the following...
Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
truthinquirer 10 months ago
Leviticus 18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."
Explain that one to a homosexual
rojaszela 10 months ago
Sorry my friend that is just you putting your own slant on it, God clearly say's clean by 7 and unclean by 2:
Gen 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
He then goes on to say to do the same for fowls of the air:
Gen 7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. Nothing about 7 unclean!!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome "ONLY clean flowls" to read as " ONLY clean fowls..."
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
It's in you your own statement my friend, you quoted " Gen 8:20 And Noah built an altar unto the Lord; and took of every CLEAN beast and of every CLEAN fowl and offered burnt offerings on the altar.”
Only clean animals and fowls were to be offered!! If there wasn't such a thing as clean and unclean fowls, it would have just said fowl, be honest with yourself.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome Yes, only clean fowls could be sacrificed. Abd only clean fowls could enter the Ark by sevens according to YOUR opinion, right? So, do you believe that every fowl in Noah's time was clean & it was only at Sinai that the fowls were divided into 2 groups - the clean & the unclean? If so , then you should be eating every type of fowl as there were all clean in Noah's time long before Sinai.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
God was talking to Noah about clean and unclean foods long before any law on Sinai, that is because God's law is eternal, His kingdom must have laws else there would be anarchy, hence why the planet is in such disarray, people clearly think they know better than God, you should be careful about your mocking approach my friend, it will get you in a lot of trouble, ask God for wisdom.
Shalom!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome Gen 7:3 says,"Of fowls also of the air by SEVENS." Both clean & unclean fowls were brought into the ark by sevens.So you could eat vultures & owls since they were brought by sevens into the ark, right?The distinction between clean & unclean animals was a religious matter because only clean animals could be sacrificed to God.Gen 8:20:"“And Noah built an altar unto the Lord;and took of every clean beast and of every clean fowl and offered burnt offerings on the altar.”
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said, "Nothing about 7 unclean!!"Nothing about 2 unclean either!So do you believe that ONLY clean flowls were taken into the Ark?You said earlier,"God was talking to Noah about clean and unclean foods long before any law on Sinai."But after the Flood God also said,"Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you.".Also,Abel made animal sacrifices.So how about your eating unclean food also & making animals sacrifices which were practised long before Sinai?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
What does the Bible say??
Gen 7:2 Of every CLEAN beast thou shalt take to thee by SEVENS, the male and his female: and of beasts that are NOT CLEAN by TWO, the male and his female.
If fowls were only clean there would be no need to specify:
Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every CLEAN beast, and of every CLEAN fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said: "If fowls were only clean there would be no need to specify."
Gen 7:2 refers to beasts (animals) only whereas Gen 7:3 refers to fowls (birds) only.
Now, how many unclean birds went into the Ark? Please quote a relevant Bible text to back
your opinion.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
It is quite easy, the evidence is there if you want to believe it. My question to you would be, firstly does God change? and secondly, did God just decide He would make an clean bird, which you say are all birds, into an unclean bird?:
Lev 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Lev 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind; 15 Every raven after his kind; 16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind, 17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl, 18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle, 19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
I don't give opinions, it clearly states CLEAN, above are listed the unclean!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You asked: "He would make an clean bird, which you say are all birds, into an unclean bird?"
Gen 7:3 says:"Of fowls also of the air by sevens..." Pleas note that the verse doesn't say whether they were clean or unclean."
In an earlier comment I asked you: "And only clean fowls could enter the Ark by sevens according to YOUR opinion, right?" So let's have your answer - yes or no?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Are you for real? I suggest you go back and read.
Gen 7:3 states of fowls by sevens, that is correct, but in Chapter 8 it tells us that only clean fowls may be put upon the altar:
Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every CLEAN fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.
When we look a bit further in the word we find out what a clean fowl is:
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Lev 1:14 And if the burnt sacrifice for his offering to the LORD be of fowls, then he shall bring his offering of turtledoves, or of young pigeons.
It also tell us what are unclean: Lev 11:14-19 as stated above.
You are just plain dishonest.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome
You said:"Gen 7:3 states of fowls by sevens, that is correct, but in Chapter 8 it tells us that only clean fowls may be put upon the altar."
What you're trying to tell me is that there were both clean & unclean fowls, right?
So, how did the unclean fowls go into the ark - by sevens or by twos?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
It doesn't matter to me how many went in, now you are just changing the subject, the point we are discussing is that there have always been clean and unclean animals, long before any levitical law, including birds and insects, God does not change.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Here is from the pen of inspiration:
Beasts of every description, the fiercest as well as the most gentle, were seen coming from mountain and forest and quietly making their way toward the ark. A noise as of a rushing wind was heard, and lo, birds were flocking from all directions, their numbers darkening the heavens,
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Cont'd
and in perfect order they passed to the ark. Animals obeyed the command of God, while men were disobedient. Guided by holy angels, they "went in two and two unto Noah into the ark," and the clean beasts by sevens.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"It doesn't matter to me how many went in" and then you gave a number by quoting EGW: "...and the clean beasts by sevens." :-) And you have evaded my question: "So, how did the unclean fowls go into the ark - by sevens or by twos?" If you think that the unclean fowls also (just like the unclean beasts) went in by twos, please quote the Bible text to support your answer.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My friend it is pointless to discuss anything with you, you are not looking for truth, you are looking for error and arguments, The question had nothing to do with how many, it was to do with the fact that God does not change and that there have always been clean and unclean. It is clearly portrayed to me that unclean were by 2 and clean by 7, but because it doesn't give you it as clear as you'd like it to be, you reject it.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"It is clearly portrayed to me that unclean were by 2 and clean by 7."
That rule applied to beasts (animals) only (Gen 7:2). Moses was inspired by God to record that the fowls (birds) went into the ark by sevens (Gen 7:3). So do you believe that the fowls were all clean since they went into the ark by sevens as it wasn't recorded that some went in by twos?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Everything stems from this PRINCIPLE, God said you shall not kill, but later In Matt 5 we see that to hate is also to murder, God is showing us a principle that we must apply in all aspects of our lives, God shows us clearly throughout the Bible that 7 is a perfect No, a No of completeness, when applies 7 to clean beasts and 2 to unclean, the same principle is applied throughout.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
God is saying the same for fowls, the reason for that is that there would be more needed for sacrifices and for food, whereas unclean animals birds and insects would not fall into this category and therefore would only be by 2, you do not need this to be written for it to be so.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
On that same principle, you have stated that they were all clean because it wasn't written in that verse, but I have shown you that in Leviticus, God clearly said that there are unclean birds and He does not change.
We are to search the scriptures, line upon line for the truth, we are not to take one line and turn it into a thus sayeth the Lord when there are other factors to consider, this is what you are trying to do and turn the scriptures into a lie!!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said,"you have stated that they were all clean."
I never stated the fowls were all clean. I only asked you whether they were all clean since it's recorded that they went into the ark by sevens (Gen 7:3) & there's no record that they went in by twos. Also Gen 7:8 doesn't say that the fowls went into the ark by twos & by sevens.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"God is saying the same for fowls, the reason for that is that there would be more needed for sacrifices and for food."
Actually Gen 6:19-20 says that God told Noah to keep every living thing "ALIVE" in the ark. So no creatures were killed in the ark to feed Noah & his family.Gen 8:20 doesn't prove that meat-eating was practised but only that clean animals & fowls could be sacrificed.Gen 9:2- 3 confirms that meat-eating was permitted after the Flood.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Yes my friend, I do not deny God gave them flesh for food, but only clean flesh was considered food and it was only because there was nothing else to eat. God is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, he shows us the end from the beginning:
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
God is a restorer, He doesn't change, He wants to restore us to how things were, why do you think He fed them manna?
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the TIMES OF RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Why did God plague the Israelites for wanting Quail in the desert?
Shalom!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said: “I do not deny God gave them flesh for food, but only clean flesh was considered food and it was only because there was nothing else to eat.”
Noah & his family didn’t kill any animals nor birds for food while in the ark.
Genesis 6:21 (NIV)”You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them."
Genesis 6:21 (New Living Translation)”And be sure to take on board enough food for your family and for all the animals."
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
That is right my friend, I do not believe Noah was eating flesh on the Ark, but God said afterwards that all flesh (meaning clean animals) Gen 9:3 was given to man for food, I do however believe that this was only a temporary measure, based upon God's original diet.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:” I do however believe that this was only a temporary measure, based upon God's original diet.” Jesus didn’t advocate vegetarianism. Luke 22:7-8"Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover LAMB had to be sacrificed.And Jesus sent Peter and John, saying,"Go and prepare the Passover for us,so that WE may eat it.”Rom 14:17(NLT)”For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink ..." God loves the sweet savor of meat sacrifices (Lev 1:9 &13)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Jesus was God, who came as a man, He is our creator, He created the world and gave us fruit, nuts, vegetables, and grains to eat, that is the original diet from Eden. God wishes us to return to this diet, He knew that the children of Israel would continue to eat flesh, why did He plague them in the desert when they ate quail?
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My friend, you need to look deeper, God loves His children, when Christ came food was not high on the agenda, they were eating the clean foods, read Daniel 1, it is telling us something, God is patient with us, a vegetarian diet is better for us, He wants to restore us. Will you be eating flesh in heaven? No!! So why here?
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Flesh today is not fit for consumption, why do you think many people round the world who are not religious are turning to be vegetarian? Science is continually being shown that fruit and veg, nuts and grains have all the things we need to keep us fit and healthy. I have been a vegetarian for just over 2 years, I feel healthier now than I ever did.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
God's people will not be miraculously healing people in the last days, they will be restoring people through natural remedies, Satan will have a free reign, he will be making people sick and then withdrawing it, people will be deceived by his miracles, the evidence will be shown by the example of God's true people, by their true loving character, not by miracles.
Shalom!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:” I have been a vegetarian for just over 2 years, I feel healthier now than I ever did.”
Nowadays raw materials for organic-based fertilizers may contain pelletized pig’s blood, pig manure, bat & seabird guano and meat from any type of fish & shellfish. Bone meal fertilzer may contain crushed pig bones & bones of any type of fish. So is it okay if an SDA consume vegetables & fruits contaminated by such fertilizers?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My friend, God is not a tyrant, He expects us to act according to our consciences ok. remeber Paul when He was bitten by the snake? Tell me, was the snake any less poisonous, or was it because God prevented it from hurting him due to His faith? If therefore, I follow what I believe to be right according to the light given to me and my heart dictates, God will bless what I eat, even if it is not 100%.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
If however, I know that a particular brand of food is using poisons in it's fertilizer and I continue to eat from it, then it is different, if I don't do something about it, then I am knowlingly poisoning my body, God will not bless me and I will suffer through my own actions. We must eat the best food we can find, till the time comes we will have to flee and God will provide via His angels.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"We must eat the best food we can find."
"The church recognizes that one's diet is a personal choice, and that it has no impact on a person's salvation..." (from the article,"Why Be SDA?"posted by Hudson (MA) SDA church). By the way, why does God wish to make a feast of fat & marrow if He's unhappy about meat-eating? Isaiah 25:6(KJV)"And in this mountain shall the LORD of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things ... of fat things full of marrow ..."
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My friend, firstly that statement is a lie, people in our Church also say that prophecy has no bearing on our salvation. What people fail to realize, it is the truth that sets us free, without the truth Satan will deceive us:
The most terrible diseases are the sure result of incontinence that is pursued. And the animal propensities are inflamed by gross living, practices, especially by a flesh diet. {SpM 209.3}
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Doesn't it tell us that out bodies are a temple?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy;
If something is bad for you, yet you eat it, are you not purposely destroying your body?
Had the use of flesh been essential to health and strength, animal food would have been included in the diet appointed man in the beginning. {CG 384.1}
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
In regards to the quotes you gave me, it has nothing to do with literal flesh eating, it refers to understanding the things that are hidden within, the depths of knowledge that will make a man great. When it refers to Milk, Bread and Honey, it is not talking about literal foods, it is talking about His word!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome Regarding meat-eating, You said:"If something is bad for you, yet you eat it, are you not purposely destroying your body?"
Wouldn't it be much worse to eat a certain forbidden fruit than to eat meat? :-)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Well I can certainly see your humour, but the same principle is applied throughout our walk with Christ, if God tells us not to do something, then should we not heed His council, do you not think God know's better than us?
This is man's problem, we think we know better than God:
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Shalom!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"if God tells us not to do something, then should we not heed His council..?"
Since you have apparently heeded God's counsel, what type of vegetarian are you - do you also take eggs & dairy products?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
I am around 99% vegan, I may on the odd occasion have pasta that contains egg, generally speaking though, I eat nuts, grains, fruits and vegetables. I have not been ill for well over a year, not even a cold. I feel great, I sleep better, I have more energy, my mind is more alert and I look younger.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome Congratulations on your feeling healthier & looking younger based on a vegan diet!
If you wish to switch over completely to the Original Diet, then I guess you have to lay off eggs & dairy products as well as seedless fruits (e.g. seedless grapes, seedless pineapple, bananas) & seedless vegetables (e.g. yams, potatoes, onions). Gen 1:29 (NIV):"Then God said, “I give you every SEED-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with SEED IN IT.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
You know that God judges you according to the wicked things in your heart?
I don't eat dairy products, I don't eat genetically modified foods, as for bananas and pineaples, you have no idea what you are talking about. When man fell, God gave them vegetables, we need them until we are restored, they were given in the Garden of Eden, not after! Being clever is not christlike, it is from another spirit.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome
You said:"... as for bananas and pineaples, you have no idea what you are talking about."
Please Google for "seedless bananas", "seedless pineapples", "seedless citrus fruits",
"seedless watermelon", seedless cucumbers", "seedless squash", "seedless avocado",
& "seedless tomatoes". Also, most likely only raw food was eaten in the Garden of Eden.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Sorry I misunderstood you there, but I did explain to you that If I know that food is genetically modified, I won't eat it, that would therefore include Bananas and Pineapples. I do not eat only raw food, but I do eat a lot of nuts, salad and fruit which is raw.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"..you obviously don't believe that we should be vegetarians, that is up to you, I will let you take it up with your creator."
So your opinion is that it is still a sin to eat meat even though the SDA church doesn't forbid it, right? (see "Seventh-day Adventists Believe" pages 318-319).
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Act 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
"Again I refer to the diet question. We cannot now do as we have ventured to do in the past in regard to meat-eating. It has always been a curse to the human family, but now it is made particularly so in the curse which God has pronounced upon the herds of the field, because of man's transgression and sins."
TBC
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@wassuptoday
Cont'd
"The disease upon animals is becoming more and more common, and our only safety now is in leaving meat entirely alone. The most aggravated diseases are now prevalent, and the very last thing that physicians who are enlightened should do, is to advise patients to eat meat. It is in eating meat so largely in the country that men and women are becoming demoralized, their blood corrupted."
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@wassuptoday
Cont'd
"and disease planted in their systems. Because of meat-eating, many die, and they do not understand the cause. If the truth were known, it would bear the testimony it was the flesh of animals that passed through death. The thought of feeding upon dead flesh is repulsive, but there is something in meat-eating: we partake of diseased, dead flesh, and this sows it seeds of corruption in the human organism."
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@wassuptoday
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. 18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@wassuptoday
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Think on these things!
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@theonewillcome You quoted EGW's reference to "the curse which God has pronounced upon the herds of the field, because of man's transgression and sins."
God has also pronounced a curse on the ground (Genesis 3:17) and He rejected Cain's offering of fruit from the ground (Gen 4:3).
wassuptoday 9 months ago
@wassuptoday
This is a bit of a pointless discussion, you obviously don't believe that we should be vegetarians, that is up to you, I will let you take it up with your creator, we will all meet Him very soon.
Shalom!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
These laws are for both gentile and jew alike, God does not change, the ceremonial laws were not wrong, there is just no need for them as Christ fulfilled them. But to say that God changes His mind about what food is good to eat and not is nonsense, there is nothing written plainly about homosexuality in the 10 commandments, but I can assure you it is in there.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said,"These laws are both for gentile & jew alike."
The stranger OUTSIDE thy gates was NOT commanded to keep the sabbath.(Ex 20:10).The sabbath was "a sign between Me & the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL FO EVER"(Ex 31:17)."For ever" indicates that the sign couldn't be altered to include the Gentiles.In fact,in Deut 7:2 God didn't want the Israelites to make any covenant (which could include Sabbath-keeping) with the Gentiles but to destroy them.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
That is right:
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome Regarding eunuchs, Deut 23:1 says, "No one who has been emasculated by crushing or cutting may enter the assembly of the LORD (NIV).” In Isaiah 39:6-7 it was predicted that Jewish
males would be taken into Babylonian captivity & castrated but later, in the restored Temple, God would command that its doors be opened to eunuchs (whether Jewish or those who had agreed to "take hold of my covenant") thus allowing them to be accepted within the Jewish religious community.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
You are reading too much into the literal requirements, you need to understand the spiritual picture. It is God's intention that all men shall be saved and that all men will be saved through Christ, the only true Israelite!!
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome If Christ is still a true Israelite, then He would have to be a priest of the Levitical order. But He is now a high priest after the order of Melchizedek (Heb 7:1-28) and Melchizedek wasn't a Jew.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
No he wasn't a literal Jew, but He like Christ was a spiritual Jew, as we walk after the spirit and not after the flesh:
Rom 2:28 For HE IS NOT a Jew, which is one OUTWARDLY; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the FLESH: 29 But HE IS a Jew, which is one INWARDLY; and circumcision is that of the heart, IN THE SPIRIT, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said, "... He (Melchizedek) like Christ was a spiritual Jew."
As you're an SDA, please quote a passage from an SDA publication (title of book or magazine & page number) stating that Melchizedek, as you have claimed, was a spiritual Jew.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
What!! My question to you is, who was Melchesidec?
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You asked:"who was Melchesidec?"
You have already answered this question of yours when you said earlier that "He like Christ was a spiritual Jew." Now you just need to back up this opinion of yours with a relevant statement from an SDA publication confirming that Melchesidec was actually a spiritual Jew.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
It was Christ that spoke through Melchisedec, the priest of the most high God. Melchisedec was not Christ, but he was the voice of God in the world, the representative of the Father.{RH, February 18, 1890 par. 10}
A spiritual Jew is someone who is grafted into the vine of Christ = Melchesidec
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You quoted "Melchisedec was not Christ." (RH, Feb 18,1890).
Here's a quote from Desire of Ages (pg 578):"As they question, "Who is this?" the disciples, filled with the spirit of inspiration, answer this question. In eloquent strains they repeat the prophecies concerning Christ: ...Ask Abraham, he will tell you, It is "Melchizedek King of Salem," King of Peace.Gen. 14:18."
The RH article says that Christ is not Melchisedec(Melchisedec)but the Desire of Ages says He is. :-)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Christ was to fulfill the role that Mechisedec represented, the only one who could fulfill that role was Christ, no one else, that is why they could say that Abraham would call Him Melchisedec, because it is the only person it could refer to.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"Christ was to fulfill the role that Mechisedec represented, the only one who could fulfill that role was Christ, no one else, that is why they could say that Abraham would call Him Melchisedec, because it is the only person it could refer to."
So what exactly were the duties of Melchisedec, King of Salem?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome Regarding Isa 56:6, it wasn't compulsory for the sons of strangers to keep the Sabbath UNLESS they have decided to join themselves to the Lord and "taketh hold of my covenant." No Gentiles were ever stoned to death for refusing to keep the Sabbath.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
That is my whole point, when you believe you are no longer a Gentile, you are an Israelite by adoption into the covenant! All the people of the earth are God's, the Israelites were meant to be a light to the rest of the world, so that all would want to be part of the covenant.
Only after you had made a covenant with God could you be held accountable under the law, of course they couldn't stone Gentiles.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome The branches of the wild olive tree, which were grafted to the cultivated olive tree, draw nutrition from the latter. However, the wild branches are not, and never will become, the same as the roots & branches of the cultivated tree. The Christian church does not partake of all the promises given to the nation of Israel.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My friend what is the vine that they were cut off from?
Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
They were cut off from Christ because they didn't believe in Him, they crucified Him, all those Israelites who did believe stayed grafted in (disciples) and all the gentiles who believed partook of the covenant and all became the true spiritual Israel.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
And just to confirm my point and to show that what you are saying is nonsense:
Rom 11:23 And they also (The literal fleshly Jews), if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them IN AGAIN.
If they accept Christ they can partake of the covenant promise that is given to ISRAEL, no one else, just ISRAEL, there is not a separate covenant for everyone else, there is just one people!!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome "And so ALL Israel (i.e. the literal fleshy Jews) shall be saved ... For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins." (Romans 11:26-27). Please note that ALL literal Israelites will be saved in the end. Since you, as an SDA, claimed that you have accepted the same covenant promise(s) given to the literal Israelites, can you confidently claim that you & every member of your church will ALL be definitely saved?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Who is Israel??? You are basically saying everyone that was born a fleshly Israelite is saved!!
That is complete nonsense, I suggest you read a little closer, everything is dependent upon faith in the saviour, and obedience to God's commandments through the merits of that saviour. If ALL Israel are to be saved, meaning flesh and blood Israelites, that would mean the Bible is full of lies.
Read what it means to be a true Israelite (Spiritual).
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
We are all saved through a saviour, it's the same promise to everyone, what is it you don't get?
The covenant promise is to Israel, there is no covenant made with anyone else, both old and New Covenants are for Israel, that is why all Israel will be saved, because a true Israelite is grafted into Christ!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"You are basically saying everyone that was born a fleshly Israelite is saved!!"
Look at Romans 11:26 "And so all Israel SHALL be saved."When Christ returns, there SHALL no doubt be a wholesale miraculous turning of the Jewish people to accept Him as the Savior. What if Christ returns today, are you confident that you & every SDA member have not been given this verdict in the Investigative Judgment:"Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting."
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My friend, you do not know God, He will not magically make anyone obey Him, it is a choice, to be an Israelite is a choice, you cannot be born into the kingdom of heaven.
The same principle applies to SDA's, if like ancient Israel they do not humble themselves and allow God to change their hearts through the truth, so that they walk according to the Spirit and not according to the flesh, they will be cut off! (Wheat and the Tares).
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"The same principle applies to SDA's ... if like ancient Israel they do not humble themselves and allow God to change their hearts through the truth... they will be cut off!"
So I guess that every SDA "must be tested and found without spot or wrinkle or any such thing" in order to pass the Investigative Judgment, right?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Every "person" including yourself, not just members of the SDA Church.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You quoted Eph 5:25-27: " That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish."
As an SDA, WHEN exactly will you be without any spot or wrinkle or any such thing?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
How will I know? I am not the one inspecting me, Christ is. All I know is that by faith, by humbling myself and trusting in God, He will finish the work in me He has started, He promises to do it for those who are faithful and obedient:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and PRECIOUS PROMISES: that BY THESE ye might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"He will finish the work in me He has started."
According to SDA theology, please explain exactly how He will that.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
You see, your problem is your attitude, you are full of scorn and ridicule, I can no more make you believe than God would force Pharaoh to do His will. I can like Moses only lay things out for you, it is for you to decide whether or not it is true or false. Point is though, unless you have the spirit of truth you will never believe, it is God's spirit that unveils the truth.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
It tells us to receive the spirit, we are to come to Him humbly like little children, if we are proud and full of scorn we will never see the truth:
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this reason I will not answer your question!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"For this reason I will not answer your question!"
Well, why should you say that? Do you have a monopoly over the interpretation of what truth is & everyone else who differs from you is wrong? :-)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
No not at all, I do not have a monopoly on anything, but there is only one truth not many, and there is only one way to that truth, and that is through a humble approach with an open heart allowing the holy spirit to open our eyes.
Like I said, if you change you attitude you will find we can be friends, even if we disagree, but we can both seek the truth with all our hearts.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:”…but there is only one truth not many, and there is only one way to that truth.”
The SDA church believes in "progressive revelation" meaning that not all truth is given at once but more of it will be revealed from time to time. Ellen White wrote: “We must not think, "Well, we have all the truth, we understand the main pillars of our faith, and we may rest on this knowledge."The truth is an advancing truth, and we must walk in the increasing light.”(CW p.33)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Progressive revelation means truth is built upon truth, it cannot replace truth, it can only replace error or strengthen existing truth:
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
The SDA Church has no error, it just lacks all the truth in which we are receiving daily.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:”The SDA church has no error.”
Please Google for "Sabbath Keeping Churches - Sabbath Keeping Denominations" to view a list of over 500 Sabbath-keeping churches & denominations. Since there are other Sabbath-keeping churches, the SDA church could be in error when it still claims that it's THE remnant church which upholds all the ten commanmdents.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
It is not just about Sabbath my friend, Satan doesn't boldly lie to you, he hides his lies in amongst truth. There are individuals within the SDA Church who are in error, there are false doctrines being brought in, but the foundations will not be broken, God will remove all error through the preaching of the 3AM, these messages will separate truth from error at the Sunday law, all those not grounded in the truth will fall.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
M friend, if you really had an open heart I could prove to you unequivocally through the prophetic message that the SDA Church is God's Church, if I didn't believe that with all my heart, I would still be looking. Truth does not fear examination, the Church will be purified at the Sunday law which will be soon upon us, all are welcome to the truth!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome 1.You said:” I could prove to you unequivocally through the prophetic message that the SDA Church is God's Church.”
This was the original SDA General Conference’s stand concerning warfare:"...we are compelled to decline all participation in acts of war and bloodshed as being inconsistent with the duties enjoined upon us by our divine Master toward our enemies and toward all mankind." (R & H 5/23, 1865). …(next)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@theonewillcome 2. contd … However, in 1914 the SDA East German Union Conference decided that Adventists could serve in the German army, carry arms & defend the country on the Sabbath. About 4,000 Adventists in Germany & elsewhere in Europe were disfellowshipped for upholding the church’s original position on warfare. These disfellowshipped members formed the nucleus of the SDA Reform Movement …(next)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@theonewillcome 3.Contd … The SDA Reform Movement ALSO regards itself as the remnant church. "The Lord will give His message to those who have walked in accordance with the light they have had, and will recognize them as true and faithful, according to the measurement of God. These men will TAKE THE PLACE of those who, having light and knowledge, have walked NOT in the way of the Lord, but in the imagination of their own unsanctified hearts." (EGW - 3SM p 421)...(next)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@theonewillcome 4. Contd … "As for the voice of the General Conference, there is no voice from God through that body that is reliable."(EGW - MR17 p 178). Since both the SDA Church & the SDA Reform Movement promote similar doctrines except that the latter doesn’t allow its members to be involved in warfare based on the original SDA GC’s stand, then how can you be absolutely sure that the SDA Church is the genuine remnant church?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Amen my friend, I do not disagree with what you are saying, but the Church is not the organised body through the General Conference, as you rightly stated, the Church are those who live up to the light they have and are walking in the truth, those within the Church who walk in the truth will stand in the time of trouble and take the message to those outside the church who will receive it, this is the loud cry.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"those within the Church who walk in the truth will stand in the time of trouble and take the message to those outside the church who will receive it, this is the loud cry." Ellen G White wrote:"We are not saved as a sect; no denominational name has any virtue to bring us into favor with God. We are saved individually as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ."(RH, 02/10/1891, par 5)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Firstly my friend, we are not a sect, so please don't be insultive, I suggest you look up the word and it's understanding. Secondly, there is only one Church, one Truth and one message, God will use this people to take this one message of truth to all those who have not heard it, yet who He knows when they hear it, will receive it with joy, "not my might, not by power, but by my spirit saith the Lord."
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
God's Church is not perfect yet, hence the wheat and the tares must grow together, the messages of the 3 Angels will separate the wheat from the dross at the coming SUNday law, then the Valley of the dead dry bones shall stand on it's feet as a mighty army (Ezek 37) and go forth under the spirit's mighty power.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:" we are not a sect..".
But Ellen White said so. Thesaurus. com's definition of "sect" = a school of thought (some synonyms = church, denomination, creed). You refer to the coming Sunday law & so how exactly will this law be enforced taking into account the current major religious groups: Christians 33% Muslims 21% Atheists 16% Hindus 14% , Buddhism 6% & Chinese traditionalists 6% and that shopping malls stay open 7 days a week
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
If we are God's Church let's say, and we proclaim the truth, and that truth originates from the creator, then surely everyone else who differentiates from that truth are the sect, yes?
Even though I don't agree, I guess I would rather be branded alongside Jesus than in agreement with man:
Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:
Shalom!
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"Even though I don't agree, I guess I would rather be branded alongside Jesus than in agreement with man."
Judging from your past comments, probably you would stand by Jesus unlike a certain Jewish guy who failed to do so (see Luke 22:60-62). :-)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Peter followed the Flesh and not the spirit, I cannot say how I will be when that time comes, but I know not to rely on myself, we are told to trust in God, in our weakness He is strong (2 Cor 12:9), if I trust in my strength I have fallen already, we must make the choice and believe that God will strengthen us.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:" I cannot say how I will be when that time comes..."
Let's say that "that time comes" refers to the enforcement of the National Sunday Law.
How exactly would be your response be?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My response will be dependent upon how I have spent my probationary time in prayer, reading His word and putting these things into practice. God will not magically save us, we must work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, our faith will be tested, you would not expect to pass an exam without studying:
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock
Psa 27:5 For in the time of trouble he shall hide me in his pavilion: in the secret of his tabernacle shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
My response will be to trust in God and not in myself, to have faith in His promises that I have claimed to myself, and by His grace He will save me because of my trust and obedience to Him.
Psa 50:14 Offer unto God thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.
TBC
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Psa 50:16 But unto the wicked God saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth? 17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee. 18 When thou sawest a thief, then thou consentedst with him, and hast been partaker with adulterers. 19 Thou givest thy mouth to evil, and thy tongue frameth deceit. 20 Thou sittest and speakest against thy brother; thou slanderest thine own mother's son.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"My response will be dependent upon how I have spent my probationary time..."
"The light given me by the Lord ... was that when the people were moved by a power from beneath to enforce Sunday observance, Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by REFRAINING from their ORDINARY work on that day, devoting it to MISSIONARY EFFORT." (EGW - 9T p 232). So you've got to imitate Sunday-keepers even though you might receive the mark of the beast. :-)
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
It has nothing to do with imitating Sunday observers. The law will state that people who work on that day will be punished, however people will be able still to labour for God, doing evangelism and medical missionary work, it has nothing to do with going to Church on Sunday.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"It has nothing to do with imitating Sunday observers."
EGW advised SDAs to refrain from ordinary (i.e. secular) work on Sunday if the Sunday Law is enforced.But Exodus 20:9 says, "Six days shalt thou labour..." Therefore, SDAs break the 4th commandment if they follow EGW's advice.
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
What complete nonsense, I have a day off on Sunday's sometimes, does that mean I am breaking the commandment? God is giving us 6 days to do all that we need to do for our selves, go to the scriptures, you'll find the disciples gathering to praise God and then travelling on that day, God is not forcing us to work!
TBC
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@wassuptoday
You twist everything because of your own unbelief, anything to try and find a peg to hang your miserable doubts on, I'll say to you the same as Peter said to Simon the sorcerer:
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@wassuptoday
You don't know God, and unless you change your attitude and repent before Him you never will.
Good day to you!!
theonewillcome 9 months ago
@theonewillcome You said:"What complete nonsense, I have a day off on Sunday's sometimes, does that mean I am breaking the commandment."
Read again what EGW says:"Seventh-day Adventists were to show their wisdom by REFRAINING from their ORDINARY work on that day." In other words, no type of secular work should be performed on a Sunday. That's breaking the 4th commandment which says you could do so.
wassuptoday 9 months ago
@wassuptoday EGW did not suggest nothing be done on that day when the Sunday Law was enforced...but rather to employ it in going door to door and letting people know what the Bible says on these matters, rather than intentionally breaking the law of the land by provoking unnecessary controversy. Let those who pass such laws spend their time rounding up those who have no religious interest of any kind, and are in violation of it...while those who do observe God's law engage in missionary work.
SkipJohnson777 5 months ago
@wassuptoday
What promises were given to Israel? The promises were given to Abraham, the father of ALL!
"and if ye be Christ's, then ye be Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise"
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You asked," What promises were given to Israel?" Has God promised you to purify you in the same way that He will purify the sons of Levi (see Malachi 3:1-3)? Has he promised you that you will be given the opportunity to be chosen as one of the 144,000(see Rev 7:4-8)? Has He promised you that you will reside in the land given to the forefathers of the Israelites (see Ezekiel 36:28)?
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
All promises go back to Abraham, the promises were given to his seed through Isaac and Jacob (Israel).
Israel is not a piece of land, or a country, it is a decision, it means those who have prevailed with God, who have overcome, it's about our minds, not about flesh and blood, our bodies are corrupt, it's a choice we make whether we are an Israelite or not, nothing more, nothing less.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said, " Israel is not a piece of land, or a country."
The salvation of the nation of Israel is described by the expression “ALL Israel SHALL be saved”(Romans 11:27) and that of the non-Jews by “the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.” (Romans 11:25).
wassuptoday 10 months ago
@wassuptoday
Well my friend, if you believe that you will be lost:
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
theonewillcome 10 months ago
@theonewillcome You said,"Well my friend, if you believe that you will be lost."
SDA Bible Commentary on Romans 11:26 states" ...The two groups are distinguished throughout the chapter by the Jews being referred to in the third person and the Gentiles in the second. The salvation of the former is described by the expression “all Israel shall be saved”; that of the latter by “the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Do you believe this? :-)
wassuptoday 10 months ago