Answering the Skeptics - Part 6: Mike Leonard asks questions about the church

[vkorchnoifan]

Dear Father, I wonder if the devil will tempt us while we are in heaven? The reason why I ask this questions is because in the Book of Job the devil talks to God. God is in His Kingdom so the devil had to be in His Kingdom to talk to Him. My final question is why is God even talking to this low life who enjoys hurting God and hurting us ?

[SunsetSix]

No meat on Friday was also a way for people to sacrifice. So was fasting before Holy Communion. We need sacrifice in our religious lives.

[ABCHealTheWorld]

It IS very true that we thrive on rules. Even the Protestants AND the Evangelicals have their rules, if they were truly honest to admit it.  We just need to remember to keep JESUS at the center of ALL those rules.

JESUS, JESUS, JESUS!! He is the ONE who gave HIS life for us. How dare we forget that BLESSED FACT, no matter what type of Christian we are. End of story.

[1ndabag]

Thank you, Father, for your wonderful work.

With regards to abstinence on Friday, in addition to being a rule that helped to identify us as Catholics, was it not also a weekly reminder of our need to be penitent? And more than that, a weekly requirement that we actually be penitent?

How has routine penitence, which I treasure, been preserved in the teachings of the post-Conciliar Church?

Thank you and God bless you.

[OccamKant]

Hmm. So you're saying that the only point to rules is that they keep people together. Arbitrary, silly, pointless and wasteful rules are still good because they help define a people.

I understand the thinking behind that, but I still think you could create a group around a set of real, helpful rules. Like a hiking club - rules would involve proper equipment care, proper diet, hiking ettiquette, etc.

There are lots of clubs that have non-pointless rules.

[fhkjds]

George Carlin would've liked to hear your take on the garb and the meat on Fridays. Hats among different religions were a motif of his, and as he once commented, "Somebody is in hell right now doing time for beef jerky."

[billybagbom]

@fhkjds Yeah, but George Carlin is dead. May God remember, save, and have mercy on him. His point is well-taken, though. It is obviously not for such minor ecclesiastical infractions as beef jerky on Friday that a soul might be lost, but for hardness of heart, irreverence toward what is holy, and indifference toward God, His Church, and His good news of salvation. Carlin was a funny man, a sensitive soul and a keen observer. I like him for that. I think Jesus does, too.

[wolf1750]

Again: Suddenly it's WE, who make and "thrive on" rules. The Old Testament jews at least believed, they came from God (starting with the 10 Commandments). Just look at their fussing about circumcision! which, I believe, must have originally had hygienic reasons (the Jewish women simply didn't want to have smelly men in bed, Israel is a warm country ;-)

[Flatbushjack]

Father Barron, I am indebted to your teaching of the faith. I have grown in my faith due to your ministry. That's why I was taken back when you said that you love the way people would genuflect upon entering a darkened theatre row of seats. Isn't that a weekness of the way Catholicism has been passed along? We Catholics often go through the motions thereby rendering an act meaningless. I genuflect in church in reverence to Our Lord's presence in the Eucharist. Isn't that important? Jack

[wordonfirevideo]

I see your point, but I think you're reading things too negatively. What I was pointing to was the way that this practice got into the bones and bodies of Catholics. It's that kind of incarnate spirituality that I admire.

[OccamKant]

That's not incarnate spirituality - it's mental programming.

There is nothing spiritual about genuflecting in a theatre - that is pure mechanical response. Pavlovian. You have programmed these people to do these things automatically and without thinking.

This is quite literally turning people into unthinking automatons. That sounds like a nightmare to me, not a good thing.

[psiroki]

@OccamKant

And not just the church!

Today I left my apartment and thought "Did I lock the door? I can't really recall it" I went back and checked: "It's locked. I must have closed it without even realizing what I am doing. On one hand that's great, on the other hand, HEEEEELP! I have brainwashed and programmed myself to lock the apartment door after I leave!".

I think I'm living the nightmare you're talking about.

[RainBirdLori]

@OccamKant You are forgetting the time frame Fr. Barron mentionedm Pre-Vatican I don't think Catholics today would genuflect going into a theatre seat. It occured because of what was mentioned. You are also missing a key element of incarnation, being that it is part of how we define a Catholic people, not to mention that Pavolov's dogs have no ability to alter behaviour of their own accord. Human beings do, which is what furthers the incarnational nature of the act (as opposed to Pavlovian).

[Nocturnalux]

@OccamKant I know what you mean. I was raised Catholic and am an Atheist now, however, I still find myself genuflecting whenever I enter a church. In other words, it is an almost instinctive reaction with no faith at all behind it. I suspect many others are the same.