Actually, it actually says fruit of wisdom, not knowledge. You commited the Irenaeus foible that spurred him to attack Gnostics as serpent offspring of Satan. The tree was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, this is indicating the quality of the fruits. "and evil" is likely inserted as Jesus affirms that Good trees cannot bear bad fruit. Thus the fruit was of wisdom and they became wise. The RCs read this passage wrong. Check Lifelibertyloves channel for Genesis vids.
@pandirasbox so instinct? doesn't that arise from the flesh? do dogs have gnosis? answer yes dogs are better than most people. well some dogs. no small breeds and no puddles.
@JohnTheHutDweller Well, the source of intuition is the conscience which is linked to the soul and is situated in the heart, it is an electrical energy. It is not linked to the brain but rather to the mind which is from the conscience. Instinct is not intuition.
@zragisha Intuition is a type of knowledge yes, but knowledge is not intuition. The ocean is the source of water and it flows into rivers and lakes but surely the lakes and rivers are still water even though they are not the ocean. Knowledge has many kinds, thus, intuition is one form of gnosis flowing from the source of the all. Read Plato. :) Enjoy
Gnosis brings knowledge necessary for salvation, to attain the kingdom. It cannot function like Pandora's box which brings chaos and the unexpected. By fruit of gnosis you could also mean "the results of knowledge". If you mean Scientific knowledge then sure why not? lol
@pandirasbox but only to whom much is given will be asked for much. what about all the indigenous peoples who never made to leave their jungles? do they have a snowball's chance in hell? if they have the law written on their hearts, is this not intuition, rather that knowledge? is Christ not all that is necessary for salvation?
@zragisha No Christ is not all that is necessary for Salvation because most believe belief + Christ is necessary for Salvation. Why do you have to "believe" Christ but you don't have to KNOW Christ! Christ imparted the Gnosis to save we need his Gnosis or we are doomed. Just as most "believers" say those who don't "believe" will go to hell.
@LifeLibertyLove so a bush-man who never heard about Christ but always loved his familily, villagers and maybe even attacking tribes will die the second death, because he never knew that he obeyed Christ? That is not what I believe!
@pandirasbox If the definition of belief is to "acknowledge as true" then I agree. However historically speaking 'belief' seems to have the connotation of blindness. I like this one video of Carl Jung speaking where they ask him if he believes in God and he says 'belief?' I can't believe in something I know. So his understanding of belief is different than a strictly interpreted lexical definition. When knowledge is perfected belief is not required (:
@LifeLibertyLove And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.
@zragisha With complete and perfect knowledge evil cannot exist. In fact I would go as far to say with perfect knowledge only love can exist. To prove the point that knowledge is important, suppose you love, but you have no knowledge, suppose you try to do the right thing for someone who is sick but because you don't know how to properly treat them, they die, but you still loved them. Or suppose your intentions were good traveling to a town in the desert but you get lost in the desert.
@zragisha This is an all too common emotional argument and a falacy. Romans can answer you this. God is merciful, and like Jesus said and Paul repeated and Valentinus drove home the point. Gnosis is within you and it is all around you. It is the kingdom and you are a block in the temple of God. If you do not bring forth what is within you what is within you will destroy you. The ignorant perish in their ignorance. I will pray you dont get bogged down with this type of argument.
@zragisha The law is written on mens hearts. If one loves one fulfills the law thus one has the gnosis whether he can communicate it or not. Those who can communicate have the responsibility to do so, especially to sinners. A man without illness is not in need of a physician.
@LifeLibertyLove I agree with you 100%. Because, if Christ came to earth to die then he accomplished nothing. He admits himself that he came to bring the gnosis that was secret and hidden since the beginning. He came to expound the law. He came to cure the deficiency. He said that many would SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND. You read the scriptures, I am assuming. Yet, you have not grasped this small thing. The mustard seed is the smallest of seeds. Gnosis is small.
Pandora's box is how Irenaeus sees Gnosis. He is afraid someone knows more than him. lol. Pandira's box is a New Agers mouth. My name was made on here way before I decided what to talk about. I agree mysticalcity is the Popes minion on youtube.
@pandirasbox well I'm quite comfortable with people who know more than I do.... I might become envious at em every now and then, but I still enjoy listening to them, maybe I can learn something... so my parallel does not apply? please explain!
@zragisha what is this fruit of gnosis? A Roman Catholic would say the fruits of gnosis (the results of gnosis, the implications) are sin and evil. I hope this is not what you mean, or your darkness is GREAT!
@pandirasbox there was only one fruit of knowledge as far as I know, and tasting it was the first sin... I don't believe knowledge is evil, just as I don't believe it is a good thing per se. It is an acivity of the brain, not of the heart. it is always conscious and if one is not aware of it, it can not be knowledge, can it? one thing I know: that I know nothing! but if you still see my great darkness, have mercy and enlighten me!
@zragisha Knowledge is a good thing. I suggest you read "The Gospel of Truth" for a very clear understanding of how the early Christians saw knowledge and how this is related to the Son of God. Go on Google and search "Gospel of Truth" you will find a couple translations on Gnosis.org When you are asking God to enlighten you, you are literally asking for knowledge(Gnosis) and for you to say you know nothing is to say God has not enlightened you.
Actually, it actually says fruit of wisdom, not knowledge. You commited the Irenaeus foible that spurred him to attack Gnostics as serpent offspring of Satan. The tree was the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, this is indicating the quality of the fruits. "and evil" is likely inserted as Jesus affirms that Good trees cannot bear bad fruit. Thus the fruit was of wisdom and they became wise. The RCs read this passage wrong. Check Lifelibertyloves channel for Genesis vids.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
Great point
JohnTheHutDweller 2 months ago
Gnosis, so to speak, is an intuitive knowledge.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@pandirasbox so instinct? doesn't that arise from the flesh? do dogs have gnosis? answer yes dogs are better than most people. well some dogs. no small breeds and no puddles.
JohnTheHutDweller 2 months ago
@JohnTheHutDweller Well, the source of intuition is the conscience which is linked to the soul and is situated in the heart, it is an electrical energy. It is not linked to the brain but rather to the mind which is from the conscience. Instinct is not intuition.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@pandirasbox but knoewledge is neither instinct, nor intuition, is it?
zragisha 2 months ago
@zragisha Intuition is a type of knowledge yes, but knowledge is not intuition. The ocean is the source of water and it flows into rivers and lakes but surely the lakes and rivers are still water even though they are not the ocean. Knowledge has many kinds, thus, intuition is one form of gnosis flowing from the source of the all. Read Plato. :) Enjoy
pandirasbox 2 months ago
Gnosis brings knowledge necessary for salvation, to attain the kingdom. It cannot function like Pandora's box which brings chaos and the unexpected. By fruit of gnosis you could also mean "the results of knowledge". If you mean Scientific knowledge then sure why not? lol
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@pandirasbox but only to whom much is given will be asked for much. what about all the indigenous peoples who never made to leave their jungles? do they have a snowball's chance in hell? if they have the law written on their hearts, is this not intuition, rather that knowledge? is Christ not all that is necessary for salvation?
zragisha 2 months ago
@zragisha No Christ is not all that is necessary for Salvation because most believe belief + Christ is necessary for Salvation. Why do you have to "believe" Christ but you don't have to KNOW Christ! Christ imparted the Gnosis to save we need his Gnosis or we are doomed. Just as most "believers" say those who don't "believe" will go to hell.
LifeLibertyLove 2 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove so a bush-man who never heard about Christ but always loved his familily, villagers and maybe even attacking tribes will die the second death, because he never knew that he obeyed Christ? That is not what I believe!
zragisha 2 months ago
@zragisha Then you do not believe "belief" is necessary for salvation as most modern Christians do. I agree belief is not necessary for salvation.
LifeLibertyLove 2 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove Belief in the gnosis is required ;)
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@pandirasbox If the definition of belief is to "acknowledge as true" then I agree. However historically speaking 'belief' seems to have the connotation of blindness. I like this one video of Carl Jung speaking where they ask him if he believes in God and he says 'belief?' I can't believe in something I know. So his understanding of belief is different than a strictly interpreted lexical definition. When knowledge is perfected belief is not required (:
LifeLibertyLove 2 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing.
zragisha 2 months ago
@zragisha With complete and perfect knowledge evil cannot exist. In fact I would go as far to say with perfect knowledge only love can exist. To prove the point that knowledge is important, suppose you love, but you have no knowledge, suppose you try to do the right thing for someone who is sick but because you don't know how to properly treat them, they die, but you still loved them. Or suppose your intentions were good traveling to a town in the desert but you get lost in the desert.
LifeLibertyLove 2 months ago
@zragisha This is an all too common emotional argument and a falacy. Romans can answer you this. God is merciful, and like Jesus said and Paul repeated and Valentinus drove home the point. Gnosis is within you and it is all around you. It is the kingdom and you are a block in the temple of God. If you do not bring forth what is within you what is within you will destroy you. The ignorant perish in their ignorance. I will pray you dont get bogged down with this type of argument.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@zragisha The law is written on mens hearts. If one loves one fulfills the law thus one has the gnosis whether he can communicate it or not. Those who can communicate have the responsibility to do so, especially to sinners. A man without illness is not in need of a physician.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@LifeLibertyLove I agree with you 100%. Because, if Christ came to earth to die then he accomplished nothing. He admits himself that he came to bring the gnosis that was secret and hidden since the beginning. He came to expound the law. He came to cure the deficiency. He said that many would SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND. You read the scriptures, I am assuming. Yet, you have not grasped this small thing. The mustard seed is the smallest of seeds. Gnosis is small.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
Sure a fruit of immortality maybe applies but not Gnosis
pandirasbox 2 months ago
Pandora's box is how Irenaeus sees Gnosis. He is afraid someone knows more than him. lol. Pandira's box is a New Agers mouth. My name was made on here way before I decided what to talk about. I agree mysticalcity is the Popes minion on youtube.
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@pandirasbox well I'm quite comfortable with people who know more than I do.... I might become envious at em every now and then, but I still enjoy listening to them, maybe I can learn something... so my parallel does not apply? please explain!
zragisha 2 months ago
@zragisha what is this fruit of gnosis? A Roman Catholic would say the fruits of gnosis (the results of gnosis, the implications) are sin and evil. I hope this is not what you mean, or your darkness is GREAT!
pandirasbox 2 months ago
@pandirasbox there was only one fruit of knowledge as far as I know, and tasting it was the first sin... I don't believe knowledge is evil, just as I don't believe it is a good thing per se. It is an acivity of the brain, not of the heart. it is always conscious and if one is not aware of it, it can not be knowledge, can it? one thing I know: that I know nothing! but if you still see my great darkness, have mercy and enlighten me!
zragisha 2 months ago
@zragisha Knowledge is a good thing. I suggest you read "The Gospel of Truth" for a very clear understanding of how the early Christians saw knowledge and how this is related to the Son of God. Go on Google and search "Gospel of Truth" you will find a couple translations on Gnosis.org When you are asking God to enlighten you, you are literally asking for knowledge(Gnosis) and for you to say you know nothing is to say God has not enlightened you.
LifeLibertyLove 2 months ago