Twirch Ringen (Outdated Interpretations)

[ravensrun3]

i especially like the updated versions, just not sure what some of you mean by "outdated interpretations". the one individual even suggests that if you had done judo or something itd be better. this is not judo and its not supposed to be. doing things the modern way does not make the old techniques more authentic (it may make them work better yes, but then it may not be ringen anymore, just modified judo) anyway... cool

[the26thhour]

I find ur vids fascinating.

I see you've sought out the wisdom of modern wrestlers, is it possible to upload a reinterpretation of the work cause at this stage, it appears that the stronger man would always win in the end, by they way you're doing it.

p.s. great music & well done lads - from Australia.

[MsResearcher2010]

Good job, guys! Best regards from Russia!

[Heidenreich18]

which sources do you used for this ?just the codex wallerstein? or something from talhoffer or meister ott ?

[peterkvideo]

Great! Now we can see the origins of modern European wrestling (like freestyle or Greco-Roman)!

[LutzDerLurch]

But western martial arts were in fact dead for long periodes, whilst eastern arts have a continuing tradition without a break.

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@LutzDerLurch some western martial arts have a continuing too...

For example Glima , Catch Wrestling , bare nuckle boxing , Savate (de Rue) ....

Did you know Krigarenve ??? Krigarenve is a modern system who has as base the traditional western arts....

[GuamKomudo]

Don't forget about Pankration =D

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@GuamKomudo the ancient pankration was very good but the art is forgoten .... modern pankration is not in unbroken tradition .... modern pankration is a modern system influeced from many asian arts .....

[GuamKomudo]

I guess that's true, their grappling wrestling is not western, it's Asian, I am in Jujitsu and it looks too much like Jujitsu to not be. Pankration is like boxing and Jujitsu... =P

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@GuamKomudo the human body is in all cultures the same , so all hand to hand combat arts are relative similar ... But a art must have historical proofs for his techniques ..... Sadly in modern ''pangration'' they took techniques from many arts (basically karate , judo, ju jutzu , freestyle wrestling, ''greco-roman'' wrestling) .......

Historicalle correct would be to have only techniques that are from ancient wandpictures or other ancient sources ....

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@GuamKomudo I saw once in ''modern mixed pankration'' a flying armbar :-) .... I don't think that this technique is from ancient greek sources .

I asked them , but I don't become a answear ...

So far I know is the flying armbar a sporting technique from the sporting part of Judo. The combat ju jutzu styles had not those sporting techniques ....

I train kickboxing(has as base western boxing) and ju jutzu(german) my self...

In some months I will start training Savate,who is from France...

[GuamKomudo]

Yeah, flying armbar is not old Jujitsu, old Jujitsu was like just throw them on the ground then stab or lock, not like a Jujitsu sport where you are on the ground for 5 minutes, it would be very fast because who got the takedown basically wins. On the hard ground in armor, a Jujitsu takedown can kill you or at the LEAST hurt you very much... But, just so you know... JuJitsu is Japanese, not German... It's a Samurai martial art. And I'm in kickboxing too =D But my style is Karate.

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@GuamKomudo German ju jutzu is not a japanese traditional art. It is a modern system for selfdefense with techniques from many arts This system is open and they add new techniques from other arts in it, if needed ....

Write ''german ju jutzu'' in eglish wikipedia and you will find it ... It is a very good system, originally for the german forces , but sadly many people train only the sporting varietion of german ju jutzu (fighting system) who is basically a sport , and not selfdefense.

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@GuamKomudo As you know Europe has also a rich native tradition in combat arts . This videos has techniques from Ringen( ''Kampfringen'') . Ringen is the traditional martial art of the Germans . The French have Savate and ''greco-roman'' wrestling. The British boxing (old pugilism) and wrestling ( catch wrestling) ... The Scandinavians Glima and Lausatoek Glima is also for selfdefense with striking..... Glima was used from the Vikings :-)

[GuamKomudo]

Savate has changed alot though... It takes lots of kicks from Korea. But most of Savate is legit, and they have hard shoes =O  haha

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@GuamKomudo Savate and kicks from Korea lol  ??? You are wrong in this point .... Savate is a 100 % european martial art ...... Savate has a long tradition in France . Click in youtoube to see old savate videos and you will see that Savate was always in this form . And this is not only for sport , the true form from Savate is Savate de Rue and this has the whole body as a weapon and is for selfdefense , not for sport ...

[GuamKomudo]

I have seen to many people throw jumping kicks and spin kicks, axe kicks, these kicks are not Savate, they are from Korean Taekkyun and Taekwondo. Savate originally has tons of kicks, but not the Korean originals like spinning hook kick, jump roundhouse. You couldn't do a jump kick on a ship... You would risk falling too easy. I'm not saying that Savate is not savate anymore, I'm just saying there's like 2 or 3 kicks that are used in it that arn't from France or any European country.

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@GuamKomudo I will start Davate in some months, so I don;t know very much about it . But if you see on old videos on youtube Savate has spinning back kicks and and  other techniques more for real fighting ...

Savate was not only for the sailors , later I think it included other techniques from medieval french arts (parisian arts) and was used primary for selfdefense and streetfights .. Later it included english boxing ...

[megasayajinsongoku99]

@megasayajinsongoku99 lol :-) I know of course that jiu jitzu is from the Japanese and that it was used from the japanese nobles (samurai) for the fight .... But as the Brasilians take judo and make it ''brasilian jiu jitzu'', the Germans took techniques from judo, aikido ,karate, wrestling, boxing,muai thai,philipino martial arts etc. and made a modern mix(open system)... This system was called german ju jutzu ..

[TheDumbeKnight]

you say traditions ceased, but due to the invention of film and TV martial arts enjoy a greater popularity than ever, The fact you are watching this proves that the traditions are still strong.

[rabourbon]

Since the invention of firearms and cannons in the later 1400's the use of traditional martial arts greatly declined, take a soldier from the napoleonic era and put him against a soldier from the medieval era, once at close range, the medieval soldier would crush the napoleonic soldier. However youre right though.

[HerrFenrisWolf]

Hehe... we fought last weekend on a castle in ouer near... it was great and we all had a lot of fun

[SoundwaveSuperior373]

its sad how europeans didnt preserve their art when firearms came out

[LutzDerLurch]

Martial arts changes over the time, but its the late 19th early 20th century when traditions ceased.

[countarioch]

Of course we didn't!  The last thing you wanted was for your enemies to learn your fighting style and counter it.

[betob8787]

It's not the martial art that's superior, it's the person who uses it. Martial arts should be adaptable to any style. A good example, David Lin (Shuai Jiao Master) competed against other styles outside of Shuai Jiao and was still unbeaten.

[87beto87]

I agree.

[betob8787]

Suprisingly, there are some books on white martial arts: The Martial arts of ancient greece (Pammachon), English Martial arts by Terry Brown (Defence), Sevillian steel the arts of Andalusian (Tartesso) knife fighting.

[tyroneart]

Great work guys! I hope you will release your updated version soon.

[Tamurello]

Stella Splendens in Monte, from the Llibre Vermell de Montserrat

[slavuBOG]

very good way to show us plays from wallenstein

have you got any more videos like this ??

[yelunatic]

I would say that your are about 70-80% correct on your interpretations - better than most of the attempts I have seen in some books. It is obvious to me thogh, that you guys have never wrestled, trained in Judo or any type of grappling before.

[MEMAG]

These interpretations are out of date, along with most of the stuff on our other videos. We've had a lot of experience and learning since shooting this, working with highly experienced wrestlers and such. Our current interpretation is better, and our skill level is much higher than what is shown here. Thanks for the comment!

[Djemps]

Could you guys create some kind of "Arcives" playlist so you can still keep this vids active once you update them with a newer version? There's so little Medieval WMA content available online, it would be a shame for you guys to some day take these videos off the web. ;-)

[newnagasaki]

Its like im playing Soul Calibur 4!

[qyark]

Sorry to resurrect, but I thought the same thing.

[Entaary]

i personaly consider cloths overdoing it :) but hey taste is taste

[drake919]

No way! You look great. Would you tell a Karateka to not wear his gi? I think not...

[davigo]

Its fantastic ! Very nice guys ! Thank you!

[haralfhalgrada]

porqué usar artes marciales japonesas,si lo europeos tenemos nuestras propias artes marciales no?

[Kunstdesfechtens]

Indeed. :)

[KarateCowboy05]

One of the best hand to hand videos I've seen. Most stuff on HWMA is Fior di Battaglia sword stuff. Keep up the good work!

[jojojoni]

hehe, Humor habt ihr ja scho...

[DrMabuse2006]

Cool. I read some of that stuff on Wikipedia. But couldn't make much from the drawings. Nice to see them beeing performed. Make some more of it. And maybe you could show how it could work in real life self defence situations?

[MEMAG]

Thank you! We plan on showing a series of counters to punches shown in the same book.

[Leondrian]

Very nice ringen clip. Made me understand much of what we were doing in January at our school. Now I can watch this clip and hopefully kick some ass next time we're doing ringen.

[MEMAG]

Thanks!

[Steadno]

Wow, yall went all out, good work...

[MEMAG]

Thank you!

[haffoc]

Nice.

[MEMAG]

Thanks!

[johjoz]

I have been busy with trying to perform the technics also. I must say your interpretation is very accurate. Keep up the good work. Hope to see more.

[MEMAG]

Thank you very much, we try to get everything as right as possible.

[kauttis]

This is really awesome! Do you have more footage about ringen?

[MEMAG]

Thank you! This is the only footage we have so far, but we plan to shoot more.

[Djemps]

This is the best video your group has put out so far! I keep watching it over and over again. I'm so excited to see a great vid of German wrestling instead of Italian. My only request. No my only plea, is that you don't remove this vid after 2 months like you do with all the rest of your great stuff! I'm saving it as a favorite!

[MEMAG]

We'll try to leave it up. It's just hard being perfectionists... Thank you for the kind words!