ok if the rights come god and god is the sun in the sky realy what right do you have the sun dose not give rights it give heat and light that it men let you live
at there will and man makes laws not the sun you live as long as i feel your a use too use is the law well i have a law too fuck with me you die no i will not go quitely in to the night god is a lie force your lie on me one of us is going to die
@ndrthrdr1 Well, the creator i spoke of, and our founding documents speck of is god, Not parents, nor some "invisible sky wizard" you i assume believe in.
Well at least everyone here is practicing their right to liberty. I'll keep Under God in mine. And @AmericanAlertNews...its a nation under a socialist named Obama.
@AmericanAlertNews you who try to break the constitution by putting god in government are un AMERICAN, so you leave and take your zombie dead jew on a stick with you. This is the 21st century, there are no invisible people in the sky.
America is a Free Secular Nation which will never be forced to pray to a Dead Middle Eastern man who has been elected to be our New God or trust our money with which is based on blind faith for a fool...
One Nation Indivisable! That is a powerful phrase! The country has become more and more divided ,since in 1954 adding of "under god" to our pledge! Mr. Bellany hated the first change to what he had written and I know he would have hated the second change also!
@optimusprimal1972200 not at all. Putting under god had done nothing but cause our country to divide. There are too many different beliefs to put our country under one.
I just have one question why did the English come over here in the first place for gold maybe for freedom form the king yes but they wanted freedom so they could worship God freely and not be told "you can't do that" that's why the English came here really
@lanalanewater Actually, the original settlers came here due to the central bank that was taking over their country. The citizens wanted to create their own currency that was free from the taxes & inflation that were forced upon by the bank. And those who refused to use the central bank's money were imprisoned for counterfeiting. The "freedom of religion" story is pure propaganda and doesn't hold any water, especially considering the fact that the country they fled worshiped the exact same god.
I never say "under God" because I don't believe that any of the countless gods people have thought up are actually real. I think that we die, just like every other living thing on the planet. It's just so hard to accept for some people that they invent an afterlife, especially when a loved one dies. There's no empirical evidence of any god's existence, or that we each have a ghost inside of us.
how about "one nation under the Creator, who endows us with certain inalienable rights." or how about "In a Creator We Trust" as its written on all those greenbacks your carrying in your wallets? NO? well then feel free to retutn all that money to the bank, and go invent your own. Boo hoo hoo. Founded by Deists, defended by Deists. get used to it.
God does not want us to die. He want's us to have EVERLASTING life. And I, being a Christian, also live for every moment on earth. I have no enemy's except the devil. I prefer to look at the BIG picture. Is this all there is? I don't think so my friend. But I respect ur opinion man. Sometimes it is good to debate :) By the way...I loved the music that was up on ur page. But what were the primary lyrics? Maybe I'll put on the ole headphones n try again.
There are over a thousand Christian denominations in North America alone, in addition to many thousands of independent, unaffiliated congregations, para-church organizations, and personal or "Mom and Pop" ministries. Thanks for letting me voice my facts. Shake N Bake :)
It has been an overwhelming response in Gods favor. Unfortunately now day's it seems that the weight of few means more than the weight of the many. Anyway...I am no preacher and have no intent on judging you or any one. I thank you for the discussions though. I am always willing to discuss the Good Word. Rock on man !!!
@justinbeckAR You DO realize their are people who live in the U.S. that believe in other gods or are non-religious? Our founding fathers wanted a secular government, with no affiliation from religion, so that way people of different religious won't feel obscured because people like you would say this nation is a christian nation. It's "For the people, By the people", not "For Christians, by Christians".
@heerotheman Hahaha...who ever told you that all would be happy and peaceful? We will all experience hard times Christians or not . The happy peaceful part will come after death on earth.
And Justin...I realize that more every year that goes by. As we turn away from God, he will turn away from us. I've read it...now I see it and hear it more and more. I have been seeing many many surveys that vote on God being taken off of money and out of schools ect. (cont on next post)
@YankeeRhoad so in death we will experience true happiness? Hmph... Just a tyrannical God who wants death...How delusional you are. I rather live for the present. There's no gold gates with Peter at life's end, just your life. That's it.
just change 'god' to 'allah.' IF what people say about 'god' is true, they ought not mind us using one of god's other names... or if enough muslims came here, they could vote it in...
or better yet, keep religion and government separate, what a concept.
wow ok everyone just simmer down its just a few words that was added AFTER WWII the real pledge has no God in it ok.......heres a solution if you WANT TO say those words than go ahead and do it no one is forcing you to and vice versa dont wanna say it than dont ok its simple stop this fighting and argueing like kids on the play ground......GROW UP AND RELAX its just a few simple words............peace and blessed be my friends
What if the President in the fifities had changed the pledge to say "One nation, free from the delusion of god, indivisible......"?
It is an equally inappropriate stance because it establishes a position with regard to religion. Think about THAT while you defend "Under god" for the rest of us who don't appreciate it. Get your religion out of my pledge.
As it should be eh? The Pledge was seen as a marvelous piece, and then added to and improved, just as this nation does daily - struggle to improve. You have the right to be Godless if you wish, but this nation was founded as such, and nothing you do will ever change that fact.
@eflint1 This is one thing we can agree on. Thank goodness there is no references to a deity in The Constitution & was constructed to be inclusive to all people regardless of religious affiliation or lack there of. "We The People"
@PaulTM2991 Everyone in America is free to join any church they want and worship the way they want for as long as they are not breaking any laws (sorry but no bombing abortion clinics). There is no hostility towards religion with the exception of the compete favoritsm of the Christian faith which makes all non-Xtians feel like second class citizens. I disagree with analysis on socialism, but even if it were true, there are Xtian socialists and even Xtian communists in this world.No connection
@TheFatComunist Also, read the treaty of Tripoli, our founding father stated quite clearly that the United States is not founded upon the Christian religion in ANY SENSE. This is a document written by them so where do you get off with these lies.
@PaulTM2991 All I am saying is that the government should stay neutral on religious issues. It is no place for the gov't to speak about religion in its mottos or on its money. Just because a gov't stays out of religion does not mean it is hostile to religion. Fact, you can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion, the two go hand in hand.
Does anyone remember how the original "civilian salute" looked?
You stood with your right hand on your heart and recited: "I pledge my allegiance..." and when we said "to the flag..." your right arm went straight out, pointing at the flag.
It looked very much like the Nazi "seig heil" salute! However, we were doing this years before anyone ever heard of Hitler or Nazism.
During World War II the salute was changed to just keeping your hand over your heart.
This is not a christian nation no matter how much these fanatics want it to be a theocracy. Just ask the Quakers, if this was a christian nation as founded. Or, how about those million peasants who tried to establish Jamestown in the late 1500s, for king and eventually, slavery, tobacco and profit. Case closed. The history of The United States had many religions, & the founders understood this, along with the tyranny of religion in European governments.
the under god part has NOTHING to do with Christianity. the word "god" is a generic term is in a higher being. Just because one religion has a different title for that higher being, doesn't make it a different higher being, just a change of name.
@NESource What about the Hindus or Pagans that believe there is more than one God. This word "God" is only a generic term for all those who believe in one God. It excludes all non-believers of one of the abrahamic religions.
"One Nation, indivisible. " flows so much better too. If you ever have the chance to recite the PoA (say at your kid's school assembly) say it CORRECTLY, loud and proud.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
"In GOD we trust"
Presidents are sworn in with their hand on the bible
Dont you think all of these things are there for a reason? Whether you like it or not, this is a Christian nation. You can have freedom of religion, but you can't suppress the religion of the majority.
@cj62392 First, "We hold these truths to be self-evident...." is from the Declaration of Independence. It is not a governing document. It has no bearing on our laws or Constitution. Secondly, the "Creator" that Jefferson believed in is not the diety you believe in. Jefferson was a Deist and was repulsed by Christianity. If you don't believe me, go look up the "Jefferson Bible."
@cj62392 3rd, "In God We Trust" was unconstitutionally added to currency in the 1950s during the shameful McCarthyism era in direct response to the "red scare."
4th, no President is REQUIRED to put their hand on a bible if they so choose. Just like in court, nobody is required to swear on a bible. You can make a secular affirmation. Lastly, we have no national religion. Xtians are the majority, but that doesn't make it a "Xtian nation" anymore than it is a "female nation" or a "white nation."
@cj62392 The word CREATOR is to ambiguous. I am an atheist and I too believe I was created by nature & more specifically my parents. "In God We Trust" was added later dimwit. The gov't has no business getting the business of religion whether it is the majority or not. Having a gov't neutral to religion in no way suppresses the religion of the majority. And if you think it does then you are quite insecure. Our gov't also was founded by white people. With your logic, we are a white nation.
@cj62392 Well, I am sick of this label that non-religious or secular gov't are inferior to religious. Seculiarism is what keeps you Xtians from killing eachother. We humanists are sick & tired of dealing with the world's religious differences. We were sick of witch hunts & crusades, and we are still sick of the crap that goes on in this world because of religion. We are sick of dodging your bullets. Secularism is what allows you your religious freedom & it is a shame you don't know it.
@Fishqueen1972 haven't you ever seen that episode of south park? Even without religion there will still be wars of ideologies. It's funny that you would say secularism gives me my religious freedom since our religious founding fathers would allow me to say merry christmas when many secular politicians today would not.
@cj62392 The founding fathers were not that religious. They specifically wrote The Constitution to be secular. The original settlers were fleeing religious theocracy and persecution. This is why there is no reference to God. "We the People." We have freedom of speech. If someone wants to say Merry Christmas then they have the freedom to do so. There has never been a law enacted which prevents someone from saying Merry Christmas. You must be delusional.
@Fishqueen1972 The founding fathers were very religious by today's standards. In the declaration of independence they said we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. I know there is no law against saying merry christmas but it's all a part of that pc bullshit that is being encouraged these days especially by liberal politicians.
@cj62392 So when Thomas Jefferson cut up all the supernatural stuff out of the BIble that is religious by today's standards?? I thought that was blasphemy. James Madison had similiar views as Thomas Payne who wrote The Age Of Reason. G. Washington was religious, but he did not attend communion regularly. Sorry, but I have never heard of any publicity about not say Merry Xmas. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Perhaps, this publicity are scare tactics by the right...lies.
@cj62392 And by the way, even if it were true that a few people made a big deal about Merry Xmas. So what. Are you the minority in the country? No. Excuse me if I don't cry over your fear especially when you people who want to turn this in a theocracy & have had government favoritism for the last 100 years. You people misinterpret neutrality for hostility. You feel if the gov't isn't blowing your horns then that is hostility. I call that paranoid schizophrenia.
Lets remove all religion from society. It's not like this country was built on religion or anything. Or that removing religion from society will bring us closer to being yet another weak, secular, leftist, socialist, european nation.
sir if we ever forget we are a nation under god we will be a nation gone under. this country has a divne purpose. sir you dont have a right to take my right to akoldge god away from me or from anyone else who wants to say it. sir if you dont want to say it don't say it.
@shockwave2004 No one is taking any rights away from you. If you want to believe this is a nation under God, then that is your right. But the original Pledge did NOT state these words. Removing those words does not in any sense claim there is no God. It simply allows freedom to believe or not believe for everyone equally. You misinterpret government neutrality for hostility. Sir, that is your problem. No one is burning down your churches or banning your Bibles. It is all in your head.
@Aeropostalluver816 so hows separation between church and state (the first amendment of the constitution) work with the idea that anyone who has a different religous view gets kicked out. I find it ironic becuase the pilgrims came here for religous freedom.
What are you doing? Are you crazy? Our brillant founding fathers wrote this and risked their lives for this country to make it! Show some respect so shut up!
"The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States is an oath of loyalty to the republic of the United States of America...Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954."
Replace "under god" with "under no god", or better still for my fellow Pastafarians "under the flying spaghetti monster". Hmmm!
Notice the words. You are pledging allegiance to the FLAG and to the Republic, not God. The rest of the words are simply describing what the Republic is. Simply don't say "under God" if it offends you. But don't say it's a first amendment violation.
The "under God" words in the pledge do not constitute Congress establishing a state church. Therefore, this is not a violation of the first amendment.
But it does constitute Congress making a "law respecting an establishment of religion."
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause doesn't just say Congress can't establish a state religion, it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
If you will read the writings of the time, the people who actually wrote the document would not have agreed with you. It's called "original intent", which is something you ACLU God haters care nothing about.
The Constitution is a living document, and the "original intent" was for the interpretation of the words to change as the country changed around it. By the way, a vast majority of legal scholars view he theory of original intent as something laughable.
So you the part that forbids illegal search and seizures might actually mean that the moon is made of green cheese. People who ignore the original intent of the Founders are they themselves laughable and they certainly aren't scholars. This means YOU! Your types see the clear words of the Constitution as an obstacle to forcing your ideology on the rest of us. So you just find a judge who will "re-interpret" those clear words to in order to legalize you illegal actions.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
If I were you, I'd lay low during the upcoming revolution. All you treasonous ACLU types are going to be dealt with. Have you considered North Korea? Cuba and Venezuela are much closer. You'd be happy in any of those countries. Thet are LOADED with the likes of you.
God haters or not, the pledge should not involve any religion or deity whatsoever. This would be the type of pledge that all people can be loyal to without discrimination. References to deities should not be in there and should never have been in there to begin with.
In a free society you have the right to try to convince of your view. But don't say it is violating the first amendment. It is not. Nor is prayer in school a violation. Nor is it a violation when some hick town of 500 people puts a manger scene in the town square. Again, those who penned the 1st amendment were very specific in who was being restricted, the U.S. Congress. And they were only being restricted in establishing a religious institution.
Seriously, pledge of allegiance should not have ANY religious affiliation. This isn't about the 1st ammendment, but what the purpose of the pledge was meant for...Grrr. It should not have been changed. It was CHANGED. It shouldn't have been.
@eflint1 In a sense, it doesn't bother me the least bit that theists or Christians want special treatment by the government. Just goes to show how insecure you all are. Unless the gov't is blowing your horns, you view it as hostility. Can't get anymore insecure than that. And your beliefs don't make you all happy either. You are only happy if everyone else believes it too which is why you want to shove it down all us non-believers throats.
@Fishqueen1972 Actually, the part that says "indivisible" is offensive to me since the Founders advocated secession if the Federal Government got out of bounds.
@Fishqueen1972 Actually , I DON'T want the Federal Government to "toot my horn". What I want is CONSTITUTIONAL government. All special interest try to force their agenda on the country from the top down. If we really went by the Constitution, the States would decide for themselves issues such as school prayer, 10 commandment monuments at courthouses,etc NONE of which violate the "separation" clause.
@eflint1 It still shoves your own personal beliefs down others throats. Are you talking about school led prayer? It is law to go to school, having school led prayer does violate church & state. PRayer is for churches, homes, or personal choice. If someone wants to pray in school as personal choice as individual, then fine, that must be allowed. However, teachers, principles, ministeries leading prayer in a classroom is plain wrong.
@Fishqueen1972 School prayer is a States right issue period. The wording of the 1st amendment is clear, "CONGRESS shall make no law..." Not school districts,but CONGRESS. The States would never have ratified the thing if they thought that one day almost TWO HUNDRED years into the future some judge would use it to ban a local decision like school prayer. You must believe then that those who wrote it didn't understand it as well as we do and that they were violating their own law. RIDICULOUS!!!
@eflint1 It is the LAW to go to school which is why school led prayer is banned. Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. States can't force someone to go to an establishment which conducts religious rituals. It is as plain as that. Prayer is for a church which is a personal choice. This is common sense. You do realize that they wrote all men are created equal yet allowed slavery and inequality of genders. Besides, many devout Xtians don't want school led prayer.
@Fishqueen1972 "All men are created equal" is in the DOI. It was not in the CONSTITUTION. So your slavery argument is an apples and oranges comparrison. The States would NEVER have ratified the 1st amendment if they even remotely thought your interpretation would become "law". You can't answer my simple question,were the Founders allowing their own law to be broken? Do we today better understand the Constitution than the men who wrote it? The 10th amendment prevails here in this case.
@eflint1 Actually, slavery does go against The Constitution. The RIGHTs were not given to blacks. Were black given rights as spelled out in The Constitution? Slavery did go against the Constitution.
@Fishqueen1972 Look, I only talk to rational, intellectually honest people. Your answers here prove only that your hatred has blinded you. One cant reason with an unreasonable person. Your whole premise has more holes than Swiss cheese and is not based on fact. But I must say, there are many on the bench who have agreed with you. But We the People of the States are rising and we will take our States back from those who think like you. But fret not, New England will still be a nice place for you.
@eflint1 So reverands and other Christians who want a secular government silent on religion are blinded by hatred as well? What is your argument against other Christians who want ALL GOVERNMENT including the state to stay out of the religious business? What do you say to them?
@eflint1 Actually, there were no laws back then regarding school attendance so the issue never came up. States did not create mandatory school attendance laws until the late 1800s & early 1900s. So no, this was not an issue for the founders at the time. They allowed laws to be broken regarding slavery, but not regarding forcing people to attend places where religious rituals are performed.
@Fishqueen1972 Again, "CONGRESS shall make no law...." The whole context of the argument of the time was one of adding a Bill of Rights to get the ratification votes of several States. These States already had prayer in there State houses ans senates and many other forms of religious expression. They wanted a guarantee that the Fed Gvt could never step in and start establishing a national church. They were tyng the hands of the Fed Gvt ONLY. That WAS their understanding of the 1st amndmt
@eflint1 I think it is ridiculous that people who want prayer in public schools aren't satisified with their personal religious freedom of choice. You people want to FORCIBLY shove it down others throats. You want a theocracy & school led prayer then convert & move to a Muslim country. You all would fit right in because you ain't no different then those fanatics.
@Fishqueen1972 Personaly, I don't care about school prayer. That's not the issue. I don't even think this should be a national issue since the Constitution is totally silent on it. It is a States rights issue and what I'm concerned about is a few fanatics like YOU being able to dictate to the States and local communities on such issues through your pals on the bench. What about Congressional prayer? Is that also "unconstitutional"?
@eflint1 There is no LAW regarding Congressional Prayer so the answer is No. Congressional Prayer is not unconstitutional. The key word here is LAW. Besides, our founders did not pray in the Constitutional Convention so if you want follow our founders, then I would say they wouldn't want congressional prayer, but since there is no law regarding this. It does not bother me. School prayer is not a states rights issue. It is law to go to school & so school led prayer is against our Constitution.
@eflint1 There is none, but the Federal law does make a case for religion freedom. But if school is mandatory then that goes against religious freedom if there is a religious ritual performed. What do you think the evangelicals in Salt Lake City would say if public schools started praying from a verse in the Book of Mormon. You would find a bunch of hypocrits using the courts to fight against it.
@eflint1 Besides, if you are so concerned about what the founders wanted, then why do you theists keep changing things to toot your own horns. Our original motto was secular "E Pluribus Unum". Then it was changed to "In God We Trust". Why did you all change it?
@Fishqueen1972 "You all" I wasn't even alive then. But again, you think that the term "In God We Trust" violates the Constitution, and that they allowed it to be broken? You're a nut. And your other argument about school not being mandatory holds no water,either. High School football games aren't mandatory, yet your ACLU constantly harasses them about pre-game prayer. Visiting a courthouse isn't mandatory, but we can't have those 10 commandments displays, or nativity scenes in town squares
@eflint1 I hate to break it to you, but many Christians and even reverands don't want it either. Forget about the non-religious, Jews, Hindus, or Muslim Americans in this country. What do you say to those Christians who do not want government & religion intertwined. If you have freedom to go to church, put up 10 commandments in front of your church, or hold up a Bible on street corner, then what is your argument against other devout Xtians who disagree with you. cont...
@Fishqueen1972 You make allot od assumptions about me. But its easy to see when a liberal is losing an argument. The issue to me is NOT whether we SHOULD have prayer in school,at football games.etc. The issue to me is whether or not the courts truly follow the Constitution in such rulings, and the answer is NO. The Founders would be rolling over in their graves!! The Federal Government has ZERO jurisdiction here. That is why the States wanted the 1st amendment to begin with.
@eflint1 Why should your opinion in regards to separate of church & state supercede others? What makes you so special? Keeping government whether it be Federal or state neutral in regards to religious issues in no way infringes upon your religious freedoms. If someone wants to pray before a football game they have the freedom to do so. The problem is making a public spectacle of it as if everyone attending is in agreement.
@eflint1 I don't care about "In God We Trust", if that what you all need to have faith then that is your problem or lack there of. (special gov't acknowledgement) You kept using our founding fathers as an argument, but our founding father's used a secular motto that every American can appreciate. If they wanted "In God We Trust" then that is what they would have enacted. "In God We Trust" excludes many Americans.
@eflint1 The States still have to follow Federal law. It is not like a state can bring back slavery simply because they want their own rights. Do you not get this? A state cannot create a law that goes against The Constitional. Once the states made it LAW to attend school, they gave up the right to use school as a house of worship.
@eflint1 Do you not agree that a major premise of our government is religious freedom? How can someone have freedom of religion if they are being forced to attend a place where religious rituals are performed? It is sad that you don't see what a great form of gov't we have. Much different than current or past theocracies. Many Xtian parents don't want some stranger in a school telling their children when to pray or what to say. This goes against religious freedom as spelled out in Const.
@Fishqueen1972 You still don't get it, do you? I AM one of those parents that doesn't want various religions leading my kids in prayer at school. My point is, the Feds have ZERO authority in the Constitution to dictate this policy. I, as a Floridian, can lobby my friends to join me to push for an amendment to our STATE constitution banning or allowing school prayer. THAT is how it should be, NOT some dictate from Rome. We are STATES, not some aggregate mass.
@eflint1 Actually, we have three branches of gov't. It seems to me that you want one branch to have more power than the others (state). It used to be a law in certain states banning interracial marriages & people actually were jailed for it. If it wasn't for the balance of power & the judicial branch stepping in, then the injustic would continue. So we will have to agree to disagree. Each branch was formed to keep the other in check.
@eflint1 The majority should never be allowed to suppress the minority. It is a slow process sometimes, but our three branches works in preventing this. The major point is regardless if you think I am arguing an ideology. If you keep gov't & religious separate or neutral, then there is no one that can complain. Unfortunely, right wing religious groups want special treatment by using the gov't to promote their religious agendas.
@eflint1 You are wrong in this matter. Prayer is a religious ritual. There is nothing secular about prayer. Allowing school led prayer goes against religious freedom & equality because the state gov't is taking sides. That is not secular. You can only have equality if everyone is treated equally. A majority of people in a state cannot rally to pass a law banning blacks or women from voting can they even though the majority agree on it?
@eflint1 Please explain to me how someone has freedom of religion and equality if one religion is favored by the state government. You have failed to explain this.
@Fishqueen1972 That's because I've never said this. Strawman argument. How much would you like to bet that the actual Framers of the Constitution would side with MY interpretation? You won't go there because you know I'm right. You just whine to your black robed benefactors instead of doing the hard leg work of convincing enough States to ratify the Constitution in your favor. Enjoy it while you can. The tyranny of the Judiciary is at an end!!
@eflint1 Given the fact that the majority of the founders were deists & wanted a secular gov't because they were tired of religious tyranny. I would say that they would side with me on the matter. They did not pray at the Constitional Convention. There is a hint for you.
@eflint1 Ok. Question. Did the framers want a secular gov't? Did the framers want a religious neutral gov't? These are questions you should ask in order to determine whether or not the framers would agree with you. Are you one of those that think this is a Christian nation? And what do you think about National Prayer Day where Congress enacted a law promoting a religious ritual which one group gets the gov't to portray their version of religiousity?
@Fishqueen1972 The Framers, even more, the STATES, wanted CONSTITUTIONAL government. It wasn't until the mid 20th century did judges who think like you gain ascendancy. I guess before that we were all clueless.
@Fishqueen1972 THERE it is, folks!! At the heart of her argument is a seething resentment for our Founders and their original intent as to State vs Federal power. Until the mid 20th century we all (including the Constitution's Framers) were clueless". This discussion is over so save your typing for someone else.
@eflint1 Lol....is that all you got. I was specifically referring to the states, not the framers. The Framers had the religious to please & they were not dictators. Slavery & women's suffrage was wrong & you know it. You want to go back to the days where blacks & women couldn't vote. Then so be it. Seriously, it is not like the framers or politicians after them were imperfect human beings. They were Gods right? They were absolutely perfect. cont....
@eflint1 The real change came during the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, when the last of the racial restrictions were finally removed. Prior to the 1960s, the Supreme Court had determined that schools could be "separate but equal," which meant there were separate schools for African-Americans. During the 1960s, the Supreme Court enforced the desegregation of the schools on the grounds that "separate is inherently unequal."
@eflint1 They gave a Bill of Rights, but the states enacted laws preventing equal rights. iF this isn't cluelessness or hypocrisy then I don't know what is. Seriously, all human beings puting forth a gov't are always perfect & right correct? No. This is why gov't evolves when people learn from past mistakes. We don't move backwards when it comes to freedom & equality.
@eflint1 And let me ask you something specifically. You believe in states rights & votes. Do you think it is ok for a majority to vote on the equal rights of a minority?
@eflint1 Well, if judiciary power comes to an end & your slippery slope turns our country into a theocracy dominated by the religious lunatics in this country. Don't come crying to me when you no longer have religious freedom in this country. It woul serve you right since you don't appreciate that this country was founded on secularism & what protects your religious freedom.
@eflint1 Your own words "The tyranny of the Judiciary is at an end!! So how is what I said a strawman? These are your own words. I guess you can't even remember what you say.
I don't think we should say the pledge of allegiance at all. The flag just represents the government, and I don't like the government....Not any government!
The true American version?? Our forefathers founded this country with core idea of it being that, "GOD CREATED ALL MEN EQUAL".
There is nothing unconstitional about having "...under God" in the pledge. It's not a LAW it's a custom, moron. No one is forcing you to believe in God or worship him. THAT is religious intolerance - not keeping God out of everything to make you happy. You don't have to say that line. You can skip it. You're kids can skip it. It's as simple as that.
If colonists came to this country to have freedom of religion, why does the pledge of allegiance have the word God in it. People must know by now that not everyone in America is a Christian. We should be saying the original pledge in school instead of some bologna that someone deciced to add to this pledge. feel free to to tell me why im wrong...
Freedom of religion means you can worship whoever you want however you want and that no law will be made to forbid you to. Having God's name in the Pledge of Allegiance has nothing to do with that. It's just tradition. America was founded by Christians who used their Christian morals to decide what this country will be.
The only unconstitutional thing here is t rying to take God out of everything! It's like saying you can believe in God, but not publicly. It's sickening.
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation UNDER GOD indivisible with liberty and justice for all. This is how it is.This is how it will be.Theres NOTHING you can do.And if you dont like it leave.Your kids will say this.There kids will say this.GET OVER IT.Find something more important to worry about.
@RIPP1N No, thats fucking bullshit. Our government is not all powerful. The people make up our government and have the right to change things in it that don't belong. How can we worry about big things when segregation still exists in our country.
We know we don't have to say it. It bothers us to see it in every corner of America. It's our national motto, it's in the Pledge, it's on the money, you have to put your hand on the bible in court, you say "so hep me god" when you become president, etc, etc... Where will they draw the line? Fuck Eisenhower, he should've stuck to commanding the Army.
I fell safer in an American nation that DOESN'T have the "...under God..." reference.
I am a Catholic, but I would rather live in an American nation that has the Constitution that allows me freedom OF religion, not FROM religion!
I see the ill-effects of a pseudo-funda-gelical Protestant "McDonald's" Christianity (of the Sarah Palin variety) coupled with Islamo-fascism and pinko leftism. (As proof) Go to your local public library and try to find decent books that TRULY inform and instruct!!
I actually read where Thomas Jefferson DID make the provision for freedom FROM religion also!
The wording in the Bill of Rights DOES make the provision of freedom OF religion or freedom FROM religion.
For example, private parochial schools may enforce a dress code. Public schools cannot enforce a dress code that is standard Catholic on non-Catholic students, though.
Catholic students are free, by preference, to attend public school dressed in a "uniform" of sorts that is Catholic standard
petition to have it removed:
wh.[removeThis]gov/0XC
copy it into the URL bar, and remove the stuff in brackets, including the brackets
notme98 2 weeks ago in playlist Pledge of allegiance
ok if the rights come god and god is the sun in the sky realy what right do you have the sun dose not give rights it give heat and light that it men let you live
at there will and man makes laws not the sun you live as long as i feel your a use too use is the law well i have a law too fuck with me you die no i will not go quitely in to the night god is a lie force your lie on me one of us is going to die
scouttroop291 3 months ago
Excuse me, but our goverment recognized god, says our rights come from our creator (AKA God)
"endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights" NOT by the goverment.
kevinjjfr 4 months ago
@kevinjjfr People's creators are their parents, not an invisible sky wizard.
ndrthrdr1 3 months ago
@ndrthrdr1 Well, the creator i spoke of, and our founding documents speck of is god, Not parents, nor some "invisible sky wizard" you i assume believe in.
kevinjjfr 3 months ago
Well at least everyone here is practicing their right to liberty. I'll keep Under God in mine. And @AmericanAlertNews...its a nation under a socialist named Obama.
thechamp2585 4 months ago
You who try and TAKE GOD out of our country and from our Pledge.. You Are Communist.... LEAVE!
AmericanAlertNews 5 months ago
@AmericanAlertNews This is a nation under PEOPLE, NOT a nation under Jesus. Get the fuck over it, or get the fuck out.
shinryu1285 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AmericanAlertNews you who try to break the constitution by putting god in government are un AMERICAN, so you leave and take your zombie dead jew on a stick with you. This is the 21st century, there are no invisible people in the sky.
nhbiker1961 4 months ago
That' how it was befire and that's how it should be.
SuperMrAtheist 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
America is a Free Secular Nation which will never be forced to pray to a Dead Middle Eastern man who has been elected to be our New God or trust our money with which is based on blind faith for a fool...
MagicTellaVision 6 months ago
woot!
btmitberg 6 months ago
One Nation Indivisable! That is a powerful phrase! The country has become more and more divided ,since in 1954 adding of "under god" to our pledge! Mr. Bellany hated the first change to what he had written and I know he would have hated the second change also!
MrJackstuff 6 months ago
sir i don't agree with you. if we ever forget we are a nation under god we will be a nation gone under.
optimusprimal1972200 6 months ago
@optimusprimal1972200 not at all. Putting under god had done nothing but cause our country to divide. There are too many different beliefs to put our country under one.
SuperMrAtheist 6 months ago
@SuperMrAtheist sir i dont agree with you on that. i believe this country was divinely inspired. god has a special purpose for this country
optimusprimal1972200 6 months ago 2
I just have one question why did the English come over here in the first place for gold maybe for freedom form the king yes but they wanted freedom so they could worship God freely and not be told "you can't do that" that's why the English came here really
lanalanewater 7 months ago
@lanalanewater Actually, the original settlers came here due to the central bank that was taking over their country. The citizens wanted to create their own currency that was free from the taxes & inflation that were forced upon by the bank. And those who refused to use the central bank's money were imprisoned for counterfeiting. The "freedom of religion" story is pure propaganda and doesn't hold any water, especially considering the fact that the country they fled worshiped the exact same god.
g4b3TehDalek 7 months ago
I never say "under God" because I don't believe that any of the countless gods people have thought up are actually real. I think that we die, just like every other living thing on the planet. It's just so hard to accept for some people that they invent an afterlife, especially when a loved one dies. There's no empirical evidence of any god's existence, or that we each have a ghost inside of us.
ndrthrdr1 8 months ago
you are right, god should not be mentioned in a pledge to a tyrannical government
longfootbuddy 8 months ago 5
That is soooo disrespectful
JessiRoad 8 months ago
@JessiRoad Its more disrespectful to change the Pledge of Allegiance by adding Under god.
SuperMrAtheist 6 months ago
how about "one nation under the Creator, who endows us with certain inalienable rights." or how about "In a Creator We Trust" as its written on all those greenbacks your carrying in your wallets? NO? well then feel free to retutn all that money to the bank, and go invent your own. Boo hoo hoo. Founded by Deists, defended by Deists. get used to it.
belarge 8 months ago
God does not want us to die. He want's us to have EVERLASTING life. And I, being a Christian, also live for every moment on earth. I have no enemy's except the devil. I prefer to look at the BIG picture. Is this all there is? I don't think so my friend. But I respect ur opinion man. Sometimes it is good to debate :) By the way...I loved the music that was up on ur page. But what were the primary lyrics? Maybe I'll put on the ole headphones n try again.
YankeeRhoad 8 months ago
There are over a thousand Christian denominations in North America alone, in addition to many thousands of independent, unaffiliated congregations, para-church organizations, and personal or "Mom and Pop" ministries. Thanks for letting me voice my facts. Shake N Bake :)
YankeeRhoad 8 months ago
@justinbeckAR That's what I thought :):):)
YankeeRhoad 8 months ago
It has been an overwhelming response in Gods favor. Unfortunately now day's it seems that the weight of few means more than the weight of the many. Anyway...I am no preacher and have no intent on judging you or any one. I thank you for the discussions though. I am always willing to discuss the Good Word. Rock on man !!!
YankeeRhoad 8 months ago
@justinbeckAR You DO realize their are people who live in the U.S. that believe in other gods or are non-religious? Our founding fathers wanted a secular government, with no affiliation from religion, so that way people of different religious won't feel obscured because people like you would say this nation is a christian nation. It's "For the people, By the people", not "For Christians, by Christians".
heerotheman 8 months ago
Comment removed
YankeeRhoad 8 months ago
@YankeeRhoad So if we turn to God, everything would be all happy and peaceful? Europe once turn to God for everything, it was called the Dark Ages.
heerotheman 8 months ago
@heerotheman Hahaha...who ever told you that all would be happy and peaceful? We will all experience hard times Christians or not . The happy peaceful part will come after death on earth.
And Justin...I realize that more every year that goes by. As we turn away from God, he will turn away from us. I've read it...now I see it and hear it more and more. I have been seeing many many surveys that vote on God being taken off of money and out of schools ect. (cont on next post)
YankeeRhoad 8 months ago
@YankeeRhoad so in death we will experience true happiness? Hmph... Just a tyrannical God who wants death...How delusional you are. I rather live for the present. There's no gold gates with Peter at life's end, just your life. That's it.
heerotheman 8 months ago
FUCK YOU! THIS NATION SHOULD HAVE UNDER GOD!
lgmmrm 8 months ago
@lgmmrm Right on bro :)
YankeeRhoad 8 months ago
It has always been, UNDER GOD and always should be.. Was you hatched? Weather you believe in God or not that the way it always has been..
Believe as you please.. If you dont like the way it was LEAVE the USA , it has always been said as UNDER GOD!!!!!!
And the GOVERNMENT shouldnt be able to change any of this.LEAVE IT THE WAY IT ALWAYS BEEN>>> 10 commandments and all..That is our HISTORY
SuperDonna79 9 months ago
@SuperDonna79 How are you going to say "That is our HISTORY" when you don't even know the history.
"Under god" was added to the pledge in the 1950's by a couple of Christians thinking it's a good idea, who have no concept of America, much like you.
JPhands 9 months ago
This removes "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" THIS IS NOT how it should be AT ALL
MissingChris2 10 months ago
@MissingChris2 Go move to Iran and you can like in a country under god all you want.
official13winters 8 months ago
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..."
do you even know what this means lol explain it ten
TheBlokin 1 year ago
just change 'god' to 'allah.' IF what people say about 'god' is true, they ought not mind us using one of god's other names... or if enough muslims came here, they could vote it in...
or better yet, keep religion and government separate, what a concept.
markofthebeasts 1 year ago
wow ok everyone just simmer down its just a few words that was added AFTER WWII the real pledge has no God in it ok.......heres a solution if you WANT TO say those words than go ahead and do it no one is forcing you to and vice versa dont wanna say it than dont ok its simple stop this fighting and argueing like kids on the play ground......GROW UP AND RELAX its just a few simple words............peace and blessed be my friends
SpartanScout038 1 year ago
What if the President in the fifities had changed the pledge to say "One nation, free from the delusion of god, indivisible......"?
It is an equally inappropriate stance because it establishes a position with regard to religion. Think about THAT while you defend "Under god" for the rest of us who don't appreciate it. Get your religion out of my pledge.
M3hammerdown 1 year ago 14
As it should be eh? The Pledge was seen as a marvelous piece, and then added to and improved, just as this nation does daily - struggle to improve. You have the right to be Godless if you wish, but this nation was founded as such, and nothing you do will ever change that fact.
Witness2Things 1 year ago
death would be preferrable to this pledge lol OR a pledge on non-allegiance to the United states of failures
COMMUNISTPHILOSOPHY 1 year ago
I say who cares about a pledge of allegiance to some striped piece of cloth!! We should have a pledge of allegiance to the CONSTITUTION!!
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 This is one thing we can agree on. Thank goodness there is no references to a deity in The Constitution & was constructed to be inclusive to all people regardless of religious affiliation or lack there of. "We The People"
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@PaulTM2991 Everyone in America is free to join any church they want and worship the way they want for as long as they are not breaking any laws (sorry but no bombing abortion clinics). There is no hostility towards religion with the exception of the compete favoritsm of the Christian faith which makes all non-Xtians feel like second class citizens. I disagree with analysis on socialism, but even if it were true, there are Xtian socialists and even Xtian communists in this world.No connection
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@TheFatComunist Also, read the treaty of Tripoli, our founding father stated quite clearly that the United States is not founded upon the Christian religion in ANY SENSE. This is a document written by them so where do you get off with these lies.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@TheFatComunist Another thing, One nation under God was added many years later. This is fact.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@TheFatComunist Actually, Thomas Jefferson tore up his Bible. SO much for lies.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@PaulTM2991 All I am saying is that the government should stay neutral on religious issues. It is no place for the gov't to speak about religion in its mottos or on its money. Just because a gov't stays out of religion does not mean it is hostile to religion. Fact, you can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion, the two go hand in hand.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@PaulTM2991 It doesn't matter. Under God is still respecting the establishment of religion. It favors religion over non-religion.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
It should be recited the way Francis Bellamy wrote it in 1892:
"I pledge allegiance to my flag and the republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
Fuck revisionism, say I.
BenAliGtor 1 year ago
@TheFatComunist Bad news. Jesus thinks you're a jerk.
TheRebel2007 1 year ago
Does anyone remember how the original "civilian salute" looked?
You stood with your right hand on your heart and recited: "I pledge my allegiance..." and when we said "to the flag..." your right arm went straight out, pointing at the flag.
It looked very much like the Nazi "seig heil" salute! However, we were doing this years before anyone ever heard of Hitler or Nazism.
During World War II the salute was changed to just keeping your hand over your heart.
TheRebel2007 1 year ago
This is not a christian nation no matter how much these fanatics want it to be a theocracy. Just ask the Quakers, if this was a christian nation as founded. Or, how about those million peasants who tried to establish Jamestown in the late 1500s, for king and eventually, slavery, tobacco and profit. Case closed. The history of The United States had many religions, & the founders understood this, along with the tyranny of religion in European governments.
biped19 1 year ago
@TheFatComunist Amen!!!!
1954phyllis 1 year ago
the under god part has NOTHING to do with Christianity. the word "god" is a generic term is in a higher being. Just because one religion has a different title for that higher being, doesn't make it a different higher being, just a change of name.
NESource 1 year ago
@NESource What about the Hindus or Pagans that believe there is more than one God. This word "God" is only a generic term for all those who believe in one God. It excludes all non-believers of one of the abrahamic religions.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
"One Nation, indivisible. " flows so much better too. If you ever have the chance to recite the PoA (say at your kid's school assembly) say it CORRECTLY, loud and proud.
debaser71 1 year ago
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."
"In GOD we trust"
Presidents are sworn in with their hand on the bible
Dont you think all of these things are there for a reason? Whether you like it or not, this is a Christian nation. You can have freedom of religion, but you can't suppress the religion of the majority.
cj62392 1 year ago
@cj62392 First, "We hold these truths to be self-evident...." is from the Declaration of Independence. It is not a governing document. It has no bearing on our laws or Constitution. Secondly, the "Creator" that Jefferson believed in is not the diety you believe in. Jefferson was a Deist and was repulsed by Christianity. If you don't believe me, go look up the "Jefferson Bible."
Swede1066 1 year ago
@cj62392 3rd, "In God We Trust" was unconstitutionally added to currency in the 1950s during the shameful McCarthyism era in direct response to the "red scare."
4th, no President is REQUIRED to put their hand on a bible if they so choose. Just like in court, nobody is required to swear on a bible. You can make a secular affirmation. Lastly, we have no national religion. Xtians are the majority, but that doesn't make it a "Xtian nation" anymore than it is a "female nation" or a "white nation."
Swede1066 1 year ago
@cj62392 The misinformation is strong with you. Liars for Jesus go to Hell.
debaser71 1 year ago
@cj62392 The word CREATOR is to ambiguous. I am an atheist and I too believe I was created by nature & more specifically my parents. "In God We Trust" was added later dimwit. The gov't has no business getting the business of religion whether it is the majority or not. Having a gov't neutral to religion in no way suppresses the religion of the majority. And if you think it does then you are quite insecure. Our gov't also was founded by white people. With your logic, we are a white nation.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Don't be an asshole
cj62392 1 year ago
@cj62392 Well, I am sick of this label that non-religious or secular gov't are inferior to religious. Seculiarism is what keeps you Xtians from killing eachother. We humanists are sick & tired of dealing with the world's religious differences. We were sick of witch hunts & crusades, and we are still sick of the crap that goes on in this world because of religion. We are sick of dodging your bullets. Secularism is what allows you your religious freedom & it is a shame you don't know it.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 haven't you ever seen that episode of south park? Even without religion there will still be wars of ideologies. It's funny that you would say secularism gives me my religious freedom since our religious founding fathers would allow me to say merry christmas when many secular politicians today would not.
cj62392 1 year ago
@cj62392 The founding fathers were not that religious. They specifically wrote The Constitution to be secular. The original settlers were fleeing religious theocracy and persecution. This is why there is no reference to God. "We the People." We have freedom of speech. If someone wants to say Merry Christmas then they have the freedom to do so. There has never been a law enacted which prevents someone from saying Merry Christmas. You must be delusional.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 The founding fathers were very religious by today's standards. In the declaration of independence they said we are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. I know there is no law against saying merry christmas but it's all a part of that pc bullshit that is being encouraged these days especially by liberal politicians.
cj62392 1 year ago
@cj62392 So when Thomas Jefferson cut up all the supernatural stuff out of the BIble that is religious by today's standards?? I thought that was blasphemy. James Madison had similiar views as Thomas Payne who wrote The Age Of Reason. G. Washington was religious, but he did not attend communion regularly. Sorry, but I have never heard of any publicity about not say Merry Xmas. I don't think you have anything to worry about. Perhaps, this publicity are scare tactics by the right...lies.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@cj62392 And by the way, even if it were true that a few people made a big deal about Merry Xmas. So what. Are you the minority in the country? No. Excuse me if I don't cry over your fear especially when you people who want to turn this in a theocracy & have had government favoritism for the last 100 years. You people misinterpret neutrality for hostility. You feel if the gov't isn't blowing your horns then that is hostility. I call that paranoid schizophrenia.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
Lets remove all religion from society. It's not like this country was built on religion or anything. Or that removing religion from society will bring us closer to being yet another weak, secular, leftist, socialist, european nation.
cj62392 1 year ago
Lolwhocares.
fratboyfrat 1 year ago
sir if we ever forget we are a nation under god we will be a nation gone under. this country has a divne purpose. sir you dont have a right to take my right to akoldge god away from me or from anyone else who wants to say it. sir if you dont want to say it don't say it.
shockwave2004 1 year ago
@shockwave2004 No one is taking any rights away from you. If you want to believe this is a nation under God, then that is your right. But the original Pledge did NOT state these words. Removing those words does not in any sense claim there is no God. It simply allows freedom to believe or not believe for everyone equally. You misinterpret government neutrality for hostility. Sir, that is your problem. No one is burning down your churches or banning your Bibles. It is all in your head.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Aeropostalluver816 so hows separation between church and state (the first amendment of the constitution) work with the idea that anyone who has a different religous view gets kicked out. I find it ironic becuase the pilgrims came here for religous freedom.
smalltownboy1991 1 year ago
Theres...theres something freedom...i cant explain it...i just cant..but theres something...
GameRemix 1 year ago
What are you doing? Are you crazy? Our brillant founding fathers wrote this and risked their lives for this country to make it! Show some respect so shut up!
robert22961 1 year ago
@robert22961 No, they wrote the original version, in the 1950's the president added "Under God..." Brush up on your facts.
RachelRaeHeartsYou 1 year ago
"The Pledge of Allegiance to the United States is an oath of loyalty to the republic of the United States of America...Pledge has been modified four times since then, with the most recent change adding the words "under God" in 1954."
Replace "under god" with "under no god", or better still for my fellow Pastafarians "under the flying spaghetti monster". Hmmm!
PassionForPasta 2 years ago
Notice the words. You are pledging allegiance to the FLAG and to the Republic, not God. The rest of the words are simply describing what the Republic is. Simply don't say "under God" if it offends you. But don't say it's a first amendment violation.
eflint1 2 years ago
"But don't say it's a first amendment violation. "
When did I say it was? Don't modify the pledge. Full stop.
PassionForPasta 2 years ago
The "under God" words in the pledge do not constitute Congress establishing a state church. Therefore, this is not a violation of the first amendment.
eflint1 2 years ago
But it does constitute Congress making a "law respecting an establishment of religion."
The First Amendment's Establishment Clause doesn't just say Congress can't establish a state religion, it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion."
PhantomofFire 2 years ago
If you will read the writings of the time, the people who actually wrote the document would not have agreed with you. It's called "original intent", which is something you ACLU God haters care nothing about.
eflint1 2 years ago
The Constitution is a living document, and the "original intent" was for the interpretation of the words to change as the country changed around it. By the way, a vast majority of legal scholars view he theory of original intent as something laughable.
PhantomofFire 2 years ago
So you the part that forbids illegal search and seizures might actually mean that the moon is made of green cheese. People who ignore the original intent of the Founders are they themselves laughable and they certainly aren't scholars. This means YOU! Your types see the clear words of the Constitution as an obstacle to forcing your ideology on the rest of us. So you just find a judge who will "re-interpret" those clear words to in order to legalize you illegal actions.
eflint1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
If I were you, I'd lay low during the upcoming revolution. All you treasonous ACLU types are going to be dealt with. Have you considered North Korea? Cuba and Venezuela are much closer. You'd be happy in any of those countries. Thet are LOADED with the likes of you.
eflint1 2 years ago
@PhantomofFire "The powers of the legislature are defined and limited; and that those
limits may not be mistaken, or forgotten, the Constitution is written."
- Marbury v. Madison (1803)
No "living document" there! I've noticed the "living document " theory always increases and NEVER decreases Federal power.
eflint1 1 year ago
God haters or not, the pledge should not involve any religion or deity whatsoever. This would be the type of pledge that all people can be loyal to without discrimination. References to deities should not be in there and should never have been in there to begin with.
PassionForPasta 2 years ago 2
"The "under God" words in the pledge do not constitute Congress establishing a state church."
Promotion of monotheistic religions/sanctioning indirectly. No reference to religion or deities should be made.
PassionForPasta 2 years ago 2
In a free society you have the right to try to convince of your view. But don't say it is violating the first amendment. It is not. Nor is prayer in school a violation. Nor is it a violation when some hick town of 500 people puts a manger scene in the town square. Again, those who penned the 1st amendment were very specific in who was being restricted, the U.S. Congress. And they were only being restricted in establishing a religious institution.
eflint1 2 years ago
Hint: PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE!
Seriously, pledge of allegiance should not have ANY religious affiliation. This isn't about the 1st ammendment, but what the purpose of the pledge was meant for...Grrr. It should not have been changed. It was CHANGED. It shouldn't have been.
PassionForPasta 2 years ago
@eflint1 In a sense, it doesn't bother me the least bit that theists or Christians want special treatment by the government. Just goes to show how insecure you all are. Unless the gov't is blowing your horns, you view it as hostility. Can't get anymore insecure than that. And your beliefs don't make you all happy either. You are only happy if everyone else believes it too which is why you want to shove it down all us non-believers throats.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Actually, the part that says "indivisible" is offensive to me since the Founders advocated secession if the Federal Government got out of bounds.
eflint1 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Actually , I DON'T want the Federal Government to "toot my horn". What I want is CONSTITUTIONAL government. All special interest try to force their agenda on the country from the top down. If we really went by the Constitution, the States would decide for themselves issues such as school prayer, 10 commandment monuments at courthouses,etc NONE of which violate the "separation" clause.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 It still shoves your own personal beliefs down others throats. Are you talking about school led prayer? It is law to go to school, having school led prayer does violate church & state. PRayer is for churches, homes, or personal choice. If someone wants to pray in school as personal choice as individual, then fine, that must be allowed. However, teachers, principles, ministeries leading prayer in a classroom is plain wrong.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 School prayer is a States right issue period. The wording of the 1st amendment is clear, "CONGRESS shall make no law..." Not school districts,but CONGRESS. The States would never have ratified the thing if they thought that one day almost TWO HUNDRED years into the future some judge would use it to ban a local decision like school prayer. You must believe then that those who wrote it didn't understand it as well as we do and that they were violating their own law. RIDICULOUS!!!
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 It is the LAW to go to school which is why school led prayer is banned. Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion. States can't force someone to go to an establishment which conducts religious rituals. It is as plain as that. Prayer is for a church which is a personal choice. This is common sense. You do realize that they wrote all men are created equal yet allowed slavery and inequality of genders. Besides, many devout Xtians don't want school led prayer.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 "All men are created equal" is in the DOI. It was not in the CONSTITUTION. So your slavery argument is an apples and oranges comparrison. The States would NEVER have ratified the 1st amendment if they even remotely thought your interpretation would become "law". You can't answer my simple question,were the Founders allowing their own law to be broken? Do we today better understand the Constitution than the men who wrote it? The 10th amendment prevails here in this case.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Actually, slavery does go against The Constitution. The RIGHTs were not given to blacks. Were black given rights as spelled out in The Constitution? Slavery did go against the Constitution.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 SO yes, the founders did allow laws to be broken.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Look, I only talk to rational, intellectually honest people. Your answers here prove only that your hatred has blinded you. One cant reason with an unreasonable person. Your whole premise has more holes than Swiss cheese and is not based on fact. But I must say, there are many on the bench who have agreed with you. But We the People of the States are rising and we will take our States back from those who think like you. But fret not, New England will still be a nice place for you.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 So reverands and other Christians who want a secular government silent on religion are blinded by hatred as well? What is your argument against other Christians who want ALL GOVERNMENT including the state to stay out of the religious business? What do you say to them?
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 Actually, there were no laws back then regarding school attendance so the issue never came up. States did not create mandatory school attendance laws until the late 1800s & early 1900s. So no, this was not an issue for the founders at the time. They allowed laws to be broken regarding slavery, but not regarding forcing people to attend places where religious rituals are performed.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Again, "CONGRESS shall make no law...." The whole context of the argument of the time was one of adding a Bill of Rights to get the ratification votes of several States. These States already had prayer in there State houses ans senates and many other forms of religious expression. They wanted a guarantee that the Fed Gvt could never step in and start establishing a national church. They were tyng the hands of the Fed Gvt ONLY. That WAS their understanding of the 1st amndmt
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 I think it is ridiculous that people who want prayer in public schools aren't satisified with their personal religious freedom of choice. You people want to FORCIBLY shove it down others throats. You want a theocracy & school led prayer then convert & move to a Muslim country. You all would fit right in because you ain't no different then those fanatics.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Personaly, I don't care about school prayer. That's not the issue. I don't even think this should be a national issue since the Constitution is totally silent on it. It is a States rights issue and what I'm concerned about is a few fanatics like YOU being able to dictate to the States and local communities on such issues through your pals on the bench. What about Congressional prayer? Is that also "unconstitutional"?
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 There is no LAW regarding Congressional Prayer so the answer is No. Congressional Prayer is not unconstitutional. The key word here is LAW. Besides, our founders did not pray in the Constitutional Convention so if you want follow our founders, then I would say they wouldn't want congressional prayer, but since there is no law regarding this. It does not bother me. School prayer is not a states rights issue. It is law to go to school & so school led prayer is against our Constitution.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Please cite the Federal law against school prayer.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 There is none, but the Federal law does make a case for religion freedom. But if school is mandatory then that goes against religious freedom if there is a religious ritual performed. What do you think the evangelicals in Salt Lake City would say if public schools started praying from a verse in the Book of Mormon. You would find a bunch of hypocrits using the courts to fight against it.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 Besides, if you are so concerned about what the founders wanted, then why do you theists keep changing things to toot your own horns. Our original motto was secular "E Pluribus Unum". Then it was changed to "In God We Trust". Why did you all change it?
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 "You all" I wasn't even alive then. But again, you think that the term "In God We Trust" violates the Constitution, and that they allowed it to be broken? You're a nut. And your other argument about school not being mandatory holds no water,either. High School football games aren't mandatory, yet your ACLU constantly harasses them about pre-game prayer. Visiting a courthouse isn't mandatory, but we can't have those 10 commandments displays, or nativity scenes in town squares
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 I hate to break it to you, but many Christians and even reverands don't want it either. Forget about the non-religious, Jews, Hindus, or Muslim Americans in this country. What do you say to those Christians who do not want government & religion intertwined. If you have freedom to go to church, put up 10 commandments in front of your church, or hold up a Bible on street corner, then what is your argument against other devout Xtians who disagree with you. cont...
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 You make allot od assumptions about me. But its easy to see when a liberal is losing an argument. The issue to me is NOT whether we SHOULD have prayer in school,at football games.etc. The issue to me is whether or not the courts truly follow the Constitution in such rulings, and the answer is NO. The Founders would be rolling over in their graves!! The Federal Government has ZERO jurisdiction here. That is why the States wanted the 1st amendment to begin with.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Why should your opinion in regards to separate of church & state supercede others? What makes you so special? Keeping government whether it be Federal or state neutral in regards to religious issues in no way infringes upon your religious freedoms. If someone wants to pray before a football game they have the freedom to do so. The problem is making a public spectacle of it as if everyone attending is in agreement.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 I don't care about "In God We Trust", if that what you all need to have faith then that is your problem or lack there of. (special gov't acknowledgement) You kept using our founding fathers as an argument, but our founding father's used a secular motto that every American can appreciate. If they wanted "In God We Trust" then that is what they would have enacted. "In God We Trust" excludes many Americans.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 The States still have to follow Federal law. It is not like a state can bring back slavery simply because they want their own rights. Do you not get this? A state cannot create a law that goes against The Constitional. Once the states made it LAW to attend school, they gave up the right to use school as a house of worship.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 Uh, THAT also is up to the States. Making school mandatory didn't change a thing. Your arguments are NOT based on law but ideology.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Do you not agree that a major premise of our government is religious freedom? How can someone have freedom of religion if they are being forced to attend a place where religious rituals are performed? It is sad that you don't see what a great form of gov't we have. Much different than current or past theocracies. Many Xtian parents don't want some stranger in a school telling their children when to pray or what to say. This goes against religious freedom as spelled out in Const.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 You still don't get it, do you? I AM one of those parents that doesn't want various religions leading my kids in prayer at school. My point is, the Feds have ZERO authority in the Constitution to dictate this policy. I, as a Floridian, can lobby my friends to join me to push for an amendment to our STATE constitution banning or allowing school prayer. THAT is how it should be, NOT some dictate from Rome. We are STATES, not some aggregate mass.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Actually, we have three branches of gov't. It seems to me that you want one branch to have more power than the others (state). It used to be a law in certain states banning interracial marriages & people actually were jailed for it. If it wasn't for the balance of power & the judicial branch stepping in, then the injustic would continue. So we will have to agree to disagree. Each branch was formed to keep the other in check.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 The majority should never be allowed to suppress the minority. It is a slow process sometimes, but our three branches works in preventing this. The major point is regardless if you think I am arguing an ideology. If you keep gov't & religious separate or neutral, then there is no one that can complain. Unfortunely, right wing religious groups want special treatment by using the gov't to promote their religious agendas.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 You are wrong in this matter. Prayer is a religious ritual. There is nothing secular about prayer. Allowing school led prayer goes against religious freedom & equality because the state gov't is taking sides. That is not secular. You can only have equality if everyone is treated equally. A majority of people in a state cannot rally to pass a law banning blacks or women from voting can they even though the majority agree on it?
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 Please explain to me how someone has freedom of religion and equality if one religion is favored by the state government. You have failed to explain this.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 That's because I've never said this. Strawman argument. How much would you like to bet that the actual Framers of the Constitution would side with MY interpretation? You won't go there because you know I'm right. You just whine to your black robed benefactors instead of doing the hard leg work of convincing enough States to ratify the Constitution in your favor. Enjoy it while you can. The tyranny of the Judiciary is at an end!!
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Given the fact that the majority of the founders were deists & wanted a secular gov't because they were tired of religious tyranny. I would say that they would side with me on the matter. They did not pray at the Constitional Convention. There is a hint for you.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 Ok. Question. Did the framers want a secular gov't? Did the framers want a religious neutral gov't? These are questions you should ask in order to determine whether or not the framers would agree with you. Are you one of those that think this is a Christian nation? And what do you think about National Prayer Day where Congress enacted a law promoting a religious ritual which one group gets the gov't to portray their version of religiousity?
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 The Framers, even more, the STATES, wanted CONSTITUTIONAL government. It wasn't until the mid 20th century did judges who think like you gain ascendancy. I guess before that we were all clueless.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Given the fact that a majority of people in this country were not even given the right to vote. I would say yes, that they were clueless.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@Fishqueen1972 THERE it is, folks!! At the heart of her argument is a seething resentment for our Founders and their original intent as to State vs Federal power. Until the mid 20th century we all (including the Constitution's Framers) were clueless". This discussion is over so save your typing for someone else.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Lol....is that all you got. I was specifically referring to the states, not the framers. The Framers had the religious to please & they were not dictators. Slavery & women's suffrage was wrong & you know it. You want to go back to the days where blacks & women couldn't vote. Then so be it. Seriously, it is not like the framers or politicians after them were imperfect human beings. They were Gods right? They were absolutely perfect. cont....
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 The real change came during the Civil Rights movement of the 1960s, when the last of the racial restrictions were finally removed. Prior to the 1960s, the Supreme Court had determined that schools could be "separate but equal," which meant there were separate schools for African-Americans. During the 1960s, the Supreme Court enforced the desegregation of the schools on the grounds that "separate is inherently unequal."
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 They gave a Bill of Rights, but the states enacted laws preventing equal rights. iF this isn't cluelessness or hypocrisy then I don't know what is. Seriously, all human beings puting forth a gov't are always perfect & right correct? No. This is why gov't evolves when people learn from past mistakes. We don't move backwards when it comes to freedom & equality.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 And let me ask you something specifically. You believe in states rights & votes. Do you think it is ok for a majority to vote on the equal rights of a minority?
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
@eflint1 Well, if judiciary power comes to an end & your slippery slope turns our country into a theocracy dominated by the religious lunatics in this country. Don't come crying to me when you no longer have religious freedom in this country. It woul serve you right since you don't appreciate that this country was founded on secularism & what protects your religious freedom.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
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@Fishqueen1972 "Well, if judiciary power comes to an end" Again, WHO ever said that? Keep creating those straw men.
eflint1 1 year ago
@eflint1 Your own words "The tyranny of the Judiciary is at an end!! So how is what I said a strawman? These are your own words. I guess you can't even remember what you say.
Fishqueen1972 1 year ago
I don't think we should say the pledge of allegiance at all. The flag just represents the government, and I don't like the government....Not any government!
JenniferFreethinker 2 years ago
Anarchist!
PhantomofFire 2 years ago
The true American version?? Our forefathers founded this country with core idea of it being that, "GOD CREATED ALL MEN EQUAL".
There is nothing unconstitional about having "...under God" in the pledge. It's not a LAW it's a custom, moron. No one is forcing you to believe in God or worship him. THAT is religious intolerance - not keeping God out of everything to make you happy. You don't have to say that line. You can skip it. You're kids can skip it. It's as simple as that.
Noel08Blueheart 2 years ago
fine then, i guess i will
locaizzzy 2 years ago
the only reason it was stated 4 times in the declaration was because anyone brave enough to speak out and say something would have probably been hung
locaizzzy 2 years ago
If colonists came to this country to have freedom of religion, why does the pledge of allegiance have the word God in it. People must know by now that not everyone in America is a Christian. We should be saying the original pledge in school instead of some bologna that someone deciced to add to this pledge. feel free to to tell me why im wrong...
locaizzzy 2 years ago
You're not wrong, you are quite right indeed.
PhantomofFire 2 years ago
Freedom of religion means you can worship whoever you want however you want and that no law will be made to forbid you to. Having God's name in the Pledge of Allegiance has nothing to do with that. It's just tradition. America was founded by Christians who used their Christian morals to decide what this country will be.
The only unconstitutional thing here is t rying to take God out of everything! It's like saying you can believe in God, but not publicly. It's sickening.
Noel08Blueheart 2 years ago
@Noel08Blueheart Our founding fathers were NOT Christians; they were, in fact, Deists.
Dracohero 2 years ago
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation UNDER GOD indivisible with liberty and justice for all. This is how it is.This is how it will be.Theres NOTHING you can do.And if you dont like it leave.Your kids will say this.There kids will say this.GET OVER IT.Find something more important to worry about.
RIPP1N 2 years ago
@RIPP1N No, thats fucking bullshit. Our government is not all powerful. The people make up our government and have the right to change things in it that don't belong. How can we worry about big things when segregation still exists in our country.
Dracohero 2 years ago
Liberal pussies!! You will have your cowardly chances soon enough to face us.
billfurd1 2 years ago
this nation was founded under God says adams and washington in 1783
masterskyrunner 2 years ago
this was a country founded under God
it was quoted by washington and adams in 1789 and later by jefferson in 1803 and also by patrick henry in 1783
masterskyrunner 2 years ago
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get over it. if it bother you to say that, just on't say it. It is stupid to do a whole you tube video for this, just as writing this comment
clintclouser 2 years ago
We know we don't have to say it. It bothers us to see it in every corner of America. It's our national motto, it's in the Pledge, it's on the money, you have to put your hand on the bible in court, you say "so hep me god" when you become president, etc, etc... Where will they draw the line? Fuck Eisenhower, he should've stuck to commanding the Army.
Bf2009 2 years ago
*help
Bf2009 2 years ago
The current Pledge of Allegiance with the "under God" included is illegal, unamerican, and above all, unconstitutional. Get it out!
Bf2009 2 years ago 14
@Bf2009 SHUTUP you need to shut your unamerican idiotic ignorent self!!!!!!
robert22961 1 year ago
@robert22961 Sir, I recommend you to take that cactus out of your ass and calm the fuck down.
Bf2009 1 year ago 8
@Bf2009 Hahaha, you just made my day with the cactus part (:
peace4111 9 months ago
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@Bf2009 If you don't want to say it as it was written then get out of my country!!
hwayneharvey 1 year ago
I fell safer in an American nation that DOESN'T have the "...under God..." reference.
I am a Catholic, but I would rather live in an American nation that has the Constitution that allows me freedom OF religion, not FROM religion!
I see the ill-effects of a pseudo-funda-gelical Protestant "McDonald's" Christianity (of the Sarah Palin variety) coupled with Islamo-fascism and pinko leftism. (As proof) Go to your local public library and try to find decent books that TRULY inform and instruct!!
ndgermanrussian 2 years ago
I actually read where Thomas Jefferson DID make the provision for freedom FROM religion also!
The wording in the Bill of Rights DOES make the provision of freedom OF religion or freedom FROM religion.
For example, private parochial schools may enforce a dress code. Public schools cannot enforce a dress code that is standard Catholic on non-Catholic students, though.
Catholic students are free, by preference, to attend public school dressed in a "uniform" of sorts that is Catholic standard
ndgermanrussian 2 years ago 6