#32 Subject To An Angel? Quick Question For Jehovah's Witnesses

[r8escjohn]

Good question!

[taebron]

The text following Heb2:5 (verse 6-9) states (in the immediate context) that Jesus will be in the future made king of all the earth and the earth will be subjected to him. Also note that the earth is termed "the world to come" and not the "current world" or just "the world." This may be a reference to the "new earth" in Revelation20:9. Also worthy of note is that ver6-8 is quoted from Psalm8:4-6. And in the Septuagint (Grk Old Test.) that Hebrews used, the word "God' is translated to "angels".

[theBIBLETHUMPER83]

ghash gnash gnash

[MrDojo5]

your all seem to be in your own ego tickling club..... your membership fee is denying Jesus Christ as Jehovah Gods Son, and Jesus Christ as King of Gods Kingdom,you are really funny... Our guest speaker is...........another person who has turned his back on the creator of all life, and His Son who gave His life so we might live forever, wow, you are of Christendom, not Christ! turn back to Jehovah, guest speaker, he truly loves us all.

[fairwhether1]

I have had the same question for a looooonnnnnggg time now. Looking forward to seeing whatever responses you receive!

[nibornagrom]

3.

Have you actually read the first chapter of Hebrews?

Vs. 4?

It certainly implies that at one time he was NOT better than the angels.

[alamo11]

very clear. It is no wonder it only took 58 secs.

[nibornagrom]

1.

Phil. 2:9-10 “God exalted his Son to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.”

[nibornagrom]

2.

Heb.12:2 "as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus. For the joy that was set before him he endured a torture stake, despising shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."

Simple really.

[fairwhether1]

@nibornagrom Please clarify. I'm sure that Brian & Keith both whole-heartedly agree with these scriptures as well, yet I'm pretty sure you're not coming to the same conclusion as they have regarding the question posed here ;)

[nibornagrom]

@fairwhether1

Clarify?

Have you read Hebrews the first chapter? It clearly explains all three relationships; angel, Jesus and God.

[fairwhether1]

@nibornagrom Yes, I have, and yes, it most certainly explains things, which is why I have asked you to clarify. :)

[nibornagrom]

@fairwhether1

If "it" explains things then you certaninly must understand that Jesus was less than what he is today. Angels were made subject to him which certainly implies that they were not subject to him before he was glorified at his resurrection.

[fairwhether1]

@nibornagrom Can you clarify what you mean by "Angels...were not subject to him before he was glorified at his resurrection"? What makes you think that?

[nibornagrom]

@fairwhether1

1 Peter 3:22 "He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him."

If the angels were subject to him before his glorification this scripute would have been wrong. And of course it is not wrong. This also proves that he could not have been part of a trinity since all these things "were made subject to him."

If he were part of a trinity whic ever version of a trinity you use) he was still given these things.

[fairwhether1]

@nibornagrom Using such reasoning we can also conclude that Jesus is not subject to the Father right now, because 1 Cor. 15:28 states "When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all." No,1 Peter 3:22 is not wrong! But it also in no way disproves the trinity. Philippians 2 explains why these things "were made subject to him" :)

[nibornagrom]

This is hardly my reasoning. The Bible states clearly the relationship between Jesus, the Son, and Jehovah, the Father. 1 Cor. 15:27 "For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ."

This says, "it is clear." Are you sure you understand these verses?

[fairwhether1]

@nibornagrom You misunderstand what I've said. By using the same type of reasoning you use re.1Pt.3:22, one could also reason Christ is not in subjection to God at present because it says: "When he has done this, THEN the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him..." Angels *were* subject to Christ before he was glorified at His resurrection (see Mt.11:27; Jn.3:35)

[peaceintruth]

Great question guys! I was just studying over that passage this evening while doing research on the WTs view of when the Messianic Kingdom began and psalm 110:1,2.

[apologeticsman]

This is a good question, but the only JW's who will watch this are those who have broken with the organization and are forming their own theology, so I fear the ones who need this the most may not see it.

[supermanny73]

@apologeticsman this video also serves for any one who is approached by JW's to pose this question. So it serves two fold.

[nibornagrom]

@apologeticsman

That's obviously not true. Brian thinks the Watchtower Society watches his videos regularly.