Hitler's Secretary and Dietrich Bonhoeffer

[StPeffie]

Hitler thought God had saved him. It was just luck. Bad and good things happen to everyone at statistically the same rate. If he had died, it would have been a good thing. These days we send drones after our enemies...or Navy Seals.

[Aspertech]

There where millions like her and not all confined to Germany. Hindsight is a wonderful, if not biased, philosopher.

[wnesbitt1]

I've just got to say that the hopes for peace in Europe were effectively lost in 1933 when Hitler was handed power to do virtually what he wanted. The idea that the effects of attempted assassination on a mentally unstable psychopath are what determined the war's course of action, is frankly naively ludicrous.

[wnesbitt1]

Early in the 1930s, Bonhoeffer was already formulating his stand on the Church's relationship with the State; a) the Church should aid the State in the State's attempts to bring godly law and order; b) the Church should warn the State should it fail in this task and c) the Church should work against the State should the State become an agent of lawlessness and disorder in conflict to godly values. That he colluded in killing Hitler sounds, to me, no different from any solider killing his enemy.

[blacsouljah]

Hitler killed a lot of innocent people as a result of this assassination attempt. The European war ended about three weeks after said attempt.

[bobbyearl60]

using your rationale ,we should have let Hitler have his way.Only then would he have realized how wrong he was.Furthermore, I trust Bonhoeffer's judgement more than yours.

[Celestiaetterra]

God raises evil rulers all the time in order to punish evil people. Post WWI Europeans (including the Jews) were evil. Look at who's ruling over you today and consider that they are given to you by God either to do you good or harm as you deserve.

[lokilokd]

It just means they should have planted a bigger bomb....

[mattyoungmattyoung]

If only the Jews had thought of using passive resistance against Hitler...

Grab a book and read how well appeasement worked against Hitler in 1938-39.

[icewaterfall101]

i'm a unicorn. :)

[thedarkesthole]

we thought you'd enjoy reading the video

[adamsmark69]

Your facts are desperately wanting. First, Bonhoeffer did not "change" his views, but rather asked, "What is God's will?" It could not be to stand by idly as millions were murdered. Such would be complacency. Secondly, whether Hitler was emboldened or not by surviving the bombing, Germany was already losing the war. Hitler never intended to surrender. Also, the Allies, at this junction, long lost interest in a settlement. They wanted unconditional surrender. Your approach is deceptive.

[Tom10000able]

"Instead of ridding the world of Hitler, the assasination attempt emboldened him."

Well, the proof is complete! Game over. Don't try, go home. Useless to resist evil -- Satan will only try harder! How dumb. Good thing Eisenhower didn't say, Operation Market Garden only emboldened Hitler. 1689

[oskana00]

This assassination attempt wasn't spiritual for everyone, just for some people like Bonhoeffer. Others participated because they realized germany was heading towards disaster and this was their last chance at saving germany.

[MsZathras]

I'm a Christian, but don't feel qualified to judge Bonhoeffer. I have no idea what he was thinking that made him support this. Since Bonhoeffer gave up his life for his faith in Christ and died, he has to stand before Someone who is much more qualified to judge.

It's sufficient for me to realize that we'll all stand and be judged one day. Personally, I don't think trying to get rid of Hitler during WW2 was a sin. I'm also not sure what part Bonhoeffer played as he supported this cause.

[CancorseTV1]

I watched this in English class and I felt so stupid for just never being taught that hitler was human too I mean i knew it but just how kind he was on a face to face basis is just mind blowing

[jordandakota]

The commandment says thou shalt not murder, not thou shalt not kill. Bonhoeffer was a brave hero. This woman was a war criminal. Nothing more can be said.

[MrSKINFLICK]

@jordandakota:

Also you: Cheap talk + NO knowledge of history. Bonhoeffer -whom i do not criticize personally- made himself an unnecessary martyr -he was offered escape by friends+relatives in England several times+did not take the chance.

I can´t stand unnecessary martyrdom - neither in Christianity nor in Islam.

And also heroes are not my type of language - this word remains suspect AND FISHY for me - it has been abused by enough military criminals already.

Hero is a military shit word.

[jordandakota]

@MrSKINFLICK

You accuse me of having no knowledge of history. You are correct, I do not recognize the revisionist history that you assert. Bonhoeffer was not only offered safety in America but did in fact travel here but his conscience(you may want to look that word up) would not let him abandon his convictions, so he very abruptly returned home. The word "hero" may remain suspect and fishy to you because you have never had any real life experience to relate the word to. I pity you.

[hopkins4545]

I'm beginning to wonder if you're not a proto-nazi of some sort. We dumb Americans are the only reason you're not living under Adolf Hitler, the wonderful leader your country elected.

[lewis72]

There is the argument that if anyone had been able to assassinate Hitler, a more competent member of the Nazi Party may have lead Nazi Germany towards victory.

For some time before the end of the war, the Allies knew that Hitler was steering the Nazis towards defeat.

[Tony63909]

It is assumed that the failure to kill Hitler on July 20,1944 costs the chance to end the war sooner then it did and thus save a million lives. Perhaps this is wrong. Who knows if in the long run such a conclusion would have eventually cost even more death and misery.

[jacsingerbryant]

This is based on the premise that it is unquestionably evil to take another life regardless of circumstances that may be at play. That's the real question. That Hitler felt resolve over his deliverance from the assasination attempt does not wholly lend credence to the suposed fallibility of the decision to attempt it. Imagine the many times that people work to do the truly "right" thing and it fails in this fallen world. I can only imagine being in the conspirators' position. Not an easy spot.

[johneunson]

this is a mis-guided soul. however, one cannot help being facinated by her. she is a woman who witnessed the most hideous evil. a voice from history. she was young and was seduced by the hitler mistique. she later questioned her life and, i think, made her peace before she died. i hadn't heard this before and found it very interesting. thank you for posting this.

[AintPosh]

Sermon on the Mount. If we do not follow this, we do not follow Christ. Being a Christ follower is hard. If it isn't for you, you are following your own made-up Jesus not the real Jesus Christ. Read your Bible and you'll find that if someone strikes you or steals from you, that is between them and God - God says vengeance is mine saith the Lord. Leave it there. 10 Commandment tell us do not murder. It doesn't say; "if" - it says do not do it - full stop. Straight and narrow is the way.

[mellbelle81]

@AintPosh The term Murder in this context of the bible does not refer to defense, it refers to the act of will to deprive another of life, for the gain of pleasure of your own. Hitler was killing millions of people for the sake of his own pleasure, his own godhood; not in defense of the helpless. Bonhfr. understood that he must stand up for the defenseless. God allowed Hitler's mind only to be further distorted in his understanding of providence. Notice she still refers to him as Furher..gross

[MrSKINFLICK]

@mellbelle81

Your own phrase HERE:"God allowed Hitler's mind only to be further distorted in his understanding of providence"

That´s Calvinist predetermination madness-mental dreck which was doodled by Calvin in Geneva1540-1560who also persecuted Christian"heretics"in his"city of god"+declared god for everything responsible:Good AND evil,a theology(similar to radical Islam)of a mischievous lunatic who should have been killed himself by one of the families of the people he let massacre by the mob

[saulpaulus]

hmmmm...so the world should have simply turned the other cheek and allowed Hitler and his minions to go on slaughtering and enslaving countless more millions? That is not realistic. Bonhoeffer realized that.

[hopkins4545]

I have a difficult time viewing Traudl Junge as a moral authority on anything--let alone the courage of those men who risked their lives, the lives of their families, and everything else to rid the world of a man who *could not have otherwise been stopped*. Cowards? How much courage did it take for her to sit and take notes while Adolf ate creampies? Bonhoeffer vs. Junge? I'll take Bonhoeffer, thank you very much.

This is disgraceful.

[MrSKINFLICK]

@hopkins4545:She always admitted in her writings+interviews that she had been pretty naive about her surroundings but NOT unaware what was happening in Hitler´s sphere.She was very smart+driven by her own pschological curiosity+she was damn young.She wrote in her autobiography:What made her feel disgusted first(after a few months)was that Hitler maintained to be a"genius"+wrote she KNEW that he was none such,but more a typical greasy babbit.I could also argue that Bonhoeffer wasTOO christian!

[MrSKINFLICK]

@hopkins4545:Lots of German"Christians"were mostly very naive about Hitler´s real aims+many of them woke up too late,finally only when the Reichskristallnacht of the 11/9 1938 had happened with many synagogues burning+hundred if jews murdered.The war in 1939 was very unpopular+many Germans viewed it as a schizophrenic situation.Germans are unfortunately not so willing for outrage+revolution as the French are -they are more phlegmatic in their character. What did YOU do against Bush, by the way?

[MrSKINFLICK]

@hopkins4545: i could also argue that Bonhoeffer may have been a coward who did NOTHING for violent resistance against Hitler + just let himself be slaughtered by the tyranny ? Is that adorable? I think not.

YOU did not have the example of the French revolution in Europe, which was obviously (in spite of all the paranoid atrocities in 1793/94) necessary in France + for Europe - and after all HERE it went against a very unholy alliance of the church, the monarchy AND their aristocratic lackays.

[MrSKINFLICK]

@hopkins4545: And when will the USA wake up? You´re in a comparable "position" like France a few years before 1789, you just don´t realize it yet. Elect someone like Palin, just do it - and you will have a civil war within the next 20 years - if not 10 years. Do many Americans think they can afford themselves such naivity any longer?

[hopkins4545]

@MrSKINFLICK None of that has a damn thing to do with what I'm talking about. This lady should have shut her mouth and walked around in shame for the rest of her life, criticizing Dietrich Bonhoeffer when she played the secretary to ADOLF HITLER? You're not getting my basic point here. Who the hell did she think she was?