I play the violin, and if you watch the bows in this song, they are all together. that makes it so this must be fake... If they were coming together on a random song and were playing random notes, then they would have different bow changes
@Kneythen ".. if you watch the bows in this song, they are all together. that makes it so this must be fake.." As a musician you surely know that it often takes only 2 or 3 notes to pick a tune. Every time the conductor heard more than one note in correct sequence his expression would change. After enough false starts the tune would emerge, confirmed by the conductors expression. As for bowing in sync it would be a natural tendency given what is trying to be achieved, wouldn't you say?
There's a logical explanation for that one. They're professional musicians. Everyone has played that song before. You just have to find the right key and you're solid. It's not that hard.
Yes, you and the violinist at 3:45 both thought of "Ode to joy" in the very beginning. But that's about it... the rest were playing Mozart, Vivaldi and various practice patterns. Only after the conductor indicated that the violinist was on the right track, by restlessly nodding, did the entire orchestra (with eyes on the conductor) begin to play the named piece - by proximity and contagion.
It was a roll of the dice on the magician's part. No magic involved, no NLP. Just luck.
Well, they are told to play random things, whenever a musician plays the 9th, the conductor would look at him/her or give some kind of facial cue as to he/she's playing the right one, and that would encourage the musician to keep playing. After a while they would all be playing the same thing.
Mental or not, amazing it is! A lot of other reactions describe what actually is going on: each of the musicians have 'the same' tune in their head, maybe triggered by Derren's suggestions and 'approved' by the conductor (as are the tunes in the heads of the respondents).
What is shows is that communication is A LOT more than just words. And that is amazing indeed!!
(I wonder what made Derren think of this experiment...)
Maybe, but since Derren wasn't predicting anything himself, NLP would be useless. This is more just an example of the power of communication between a conductor and his players, or in the wider scale, a leader and his followers.
nothing amazing about this. These are professional musicians who have plenty of repertoire internalized in their musical memory and once a few of them started playing around with the them to "ode" and the director let it be known through his facial expressions that this is what it was he had written down, they just all started playing that piece. It's the same as doing the same experiment with a group of jazz musicians. In no time they would have all picked up on a common theme or riff.
it's quite simple to explain, the conductor was searching for someone in the orchestra to start playing something in the tune of ode to joy, then when he heard it, he made eye contact with them, so that person played it a little bit louder, and other people followed.
it's basic human psychology, works the same way as people following fashion trends.
I think the conductor's head movements got the 'ritmo' going. You only need a few members of the orchestra to pick on it and the rest will follow. There is a lot of body language going on.
Hindsight bias is the inclination to see events that have occurred as more predictable than they in fact were before they took place. Hindsight bias has been demonstrated experimentally in a variety of settings, including politics, games and medicine. In psychological experiments of hindsight bias, subjects also tend to remember their predictions of future events as having been stronger than they actually were, in those cases where those predictions turn out correct.
Also, consider, that you predicting the piece of music may have been a result of you being manipulated by Darren through his words or actions. It's one of the few pieces of ubiquitous symphonic music easily referenced by a single number.
It was not the experiment that amazed me. It was more the slow convergence of sounds till the ode. It was beautiful. I think this the way in which the universe operates..
The possibility that within the human psyche exists the possibilities of the paranormal is apparent in this video. To attack against dictionary words such as transference, supernatural, or strange forces, one must do so against the event itself. A study is example of the power of music to communicate through an emotional language with no need of linguistics, unseen, invisible, waves of thought listened to and acted upon in consensus. Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
But that's the sense of everything: there is no mind reading. All mediums or "paranormal" investigators use the same skills that Brown uses: hypnosis.
I am a sceptic concerning all paranormal investigations or so-called skills. They simply do not exist. But I am not fully an atheist. I say that scientists are actually discussing things like time travel or parallel universes -- if parallel universes exist, there might even be an afterlife.
That's my position: we don't know whether there is an afterlife or God. But we do know that there is no telekinesis, no "mind reading", no contact to deceased people.
As in mass hysteria's uncontrolled thought effects on the minds of people, there are clinical features that guide us. As well, in this case by Derrin Brown, a form of controlled thought seeks consensus through a group of musicians who seek concert toward the familiar. In mass hysteria we have out of control thoughts. In this case, non-hysteria, a control thought experiment results in a positive. As to hypnosis or the paranormal, I am still skeptical with terms like 'absolute and rubbish.'
Thats the beauty of his skill. Its way mroe interesting to see someone be able to manipulate peoples thoughts rather than "mind read" like hundres of other youtube clips claim to do and which is still quite silly some may say. This is real stuff Derren Brown is doing.
Good question. He presents his effects in a way to create debate about the paranormal, unseen force fields sound, light, waves, emotional transpondence, gravity itself, specific signals that transmit prompt specific replies as in word association. As to the verity of the existence of the paranormal naturally its arguable. Im cool with that. I like to think of myself as a skeptic as wellalways open to proof of possibles other than the closed thought systems of cynicism. All the best.
Well first of he isn't an atheist and second if he wasn't a skeptic and thought he could really talk to dead and predict lottery numbers i would really consider him a looooone.
The whole 'whose an Atheïst and who isn't' discussion usually crumbuls down when you include what definition of atheist your using.
According the 'Messiah' show he used to be a "Happy-flappy christian" and isn't anymore, witch makes alot of people assume that he isn't a Theïst. Following the definition most self-declaired youtube atheists use hes therefore is an atheist (non-theist).
This is all based on the assumtion that he doesn't think theres a God.
Yeah atheism=not theism.And as you've said he's not a christian anymore that's just atheism with respect to Christianity not in general.But who cares the guy is awesome and fun to wach that's what really matters.
That is so cool. Does he ever go on to explain how exactly that worked? That's a fabulously powerful trick. People are so much more interesting than we give credit for. Nothing supernatural, just people. Beautiful.
It's unimpressive. The tune is so easy to achieve by just playing scales randomly, especially when people are already familiar with it. You just need a random "mi mi fa so so fa mi rai" and that leads on to Ode to Joy You already!
This show still awes people because most viewers are generally unfamiliar with classical music, have never been in an orchestra before and are not musically trained. It thus seems as if it was dictated by "strange forces". It is not.
Well how about the conductor? You saw him, by watching the end of this video, impressed right?
He is very familiar with classical music and musically trained too. And also look at those musicians after they played Ode To Joy they were also impressed with what they have just done :D
Derren Brown never claims it to be dictated by "strange forces," as you say. Of course he uses some trick. Also, your explanation doesn't explain it being in the key of D major.
Keep in mind too that Ode to Joy is one of the first songs people learn to play on instruments because it is easy. When the people in the orchestra were uncertain, they went back to something that was familiar to them, which was that song. Also, he did not write down the key as D major, which could indicate that he just said what he heard them playing.
Umm..I have played an instrument for many many years, and Ode to Joy was not the first Concert peice I learned to play. I cannot remember the name at the moment, but I know it was not that peice.
This wasn't a trick of suggestion by Derren. This is how pets sometimes "train" themselves to learn rules that no one taught them. The orchestra was playing random sounds, and when the conductor heard tunes that he recognized as correct, his body language communicated that to the players, whether they realized it or not. They began to realize what sounds got good reactions and which did not, so the frequency of "good" sounds increased until it came together into something that they all knew.
I replayed it to listen, and I think Piersh is right. That's also why he won't shut up for the longest time, which was the only thing I noticed at first.
This is how the trick is done. One of the player knows what piece the conductor is thinking before hand. Then you tell all the players to improvise until they hear something that they already know from another player in the orchestra.
That explains the evolution from the "cluster" to the end! Also the weak harmonization and orchestration that we can easily see that is being improvised.
According to his book, Derren Brown Claims to NEvER use stooges in his work, and preintimidation. He doesn't promote certain actions before a trick, and if he rigs it, it will most likely be revealed to us, because he wants us to know that he tricked us. This may be the real deal guys.
well i was thinking beathoven 9th as well so im pretty sure there are audio cue's in there he uses word like this but say's it like you would in nineth
In addition to what I said below, he suggests playing scales, which is exactly what the Ode To Joy is built upon. My teacher taught the song in 5th grade precisely because of this - so we could learn our scales.
I like Derren Brown, but being a musician, this trick isn't impressive to me. Ode To Joy is the most famous section of one of the most famous pieces in Classical Music; I'm sure these musicians play/hear it all the time. Plus, the instruments on stage are just what you'd need to play it
Of course it's going to come out in the key of D, for two reasons:
1) That's the original key.
2) Derren tells them to tune. Every stringed instrument in that group has open strings tuned to D, G and A, so these are going to be heard the most by far. These three notes are the only notes in the bass line for the Ode To Joy (besides a few quick decorative chords), and outline the harmonic progression I-IV-V in D, which is the most common progression in tonal music, very strongly suggesting D.
just goes to show how humans communicate with each other, there are subtleties to every thing we do from body language to maybe even mental energy, it is so amazing to people because often times people aren't paying attention, but it is happening all of the time. With musicians, they must be aware of each other in order to produce good music, so they are trained to be aware. also notice how darren brown's hand gestures match those of the conductor when he starts conducting.
Derren Brown is a master of suggestion, obviously. I think he used subliminal messaging before the show, perhaps when he was briefing the orchestra, and with little messages, he was able to make the orchestra and the conductor have Ode to Joy in the back of their heads. So when they were asked to play it, that was the first thing that came to their mind.
he told the conductor what to conduct, and then using the conductor and using his own actions, he managed to convince the remaining ppl to follow on.. only explanation i can think of
NLP? Subliminal Suggestion? Hypnosis? Unlikely. Try this on 10 orchestras and seven would probably end up with the Ode to Joy. The surprising thing is not that the participants in Derren's tricks are conned into believing that he has special powers, but that he gives succour to those dubious commentators who promote NLP and similar nonsense as something new and powerful. Trying to influence people successfully and trying to predict their actions is a skill as old as Adam and Eve.
Derren begins hypnotizing the conductor at 0:32 with a deep, long stare. At 1:29 he makes a fist like an 'O' and caps his other hand over it like the top of a 'J' at the same time telling the conductor he's going to communicate this. The orchestra would have subliminally noticed the hand movements. Also, he begins by describing feelings, like fascinated, genuine, relationship, whole, dynamic and 'layers of control' lol.
well, when he turned to speak to the orchestra he was moving his hands like a conductor would when conducting Ode to a Joy, the people watching would take it in subliminally and then without knowing it they play bits of Ode to Joy when playing somthing "random" then like the dude at the end said the rest just join in. So the conductor is basically doing nothing other than point out the people playing it with his facial expressions :)
umm conductor's "conduct" based on what beat the song is, like 4/4 or 3/4 or something like that. obviously there are two explanations for derren. He is one of the most successful cons ever, or he is like he suggests a master of psychology
If you listen to him he subliminally leads them to Ode to Joy. He says, "The tune can be anything, classical, traditional, whatever". So its already narrowed down to classical. IF you thought of Ode to Joy its because he suggested it to you.
i believe derren brown plants the tune into the conductors mind subcontiously, then when he is explaining to the crowd, you can see he is waving his arms around, could it be possible derren brown is conducting the orchestra to start with? along with what other people said about playing louder ect
I think its a leg pull! I think the orchestra were in on it. That is the way magicians get airplanes to disappear in front of vast crowds on TV. The crowd is in on it and move over to a no plane set as the camera cuts away and turns. Or one member of the orchestra or all were in on it and sort of 'follow me chaps' kicks in.If it looks too good to be true it probably is. Great fun though!
kinda like the general of an army, sure the soldiers do the fighting and training but they need someone to tell them who to kill (orders to kill people = interpreting music)
conductors interpret the music and how the musicians should play it, theres no set way to how any piece of music should be played. they give suggestions and its up to the conductor to decide how it should sound. making the music a very accurate representation of the conductors personality. they also keep the band from falling apart by giving cues and keeping everyone in the same tempo. so yes, the conductor is the most important person in the band.
The violinist was just going through his/her repetoire. Thats what i would have done, I would try and figure out what he was thinking versus him mentally sending me the information. Talk to any real musician and see if they think this is full of crap (or at least full of crap the way the magician explains it). And cursevirus, you probably picked this piece because it is an EXTREMELY well-known piece. The piece I picked was the The Rite of Spring. A little bit harder than what he picked.
OR......a much more logical explanation.....He picked the melody, then everyone went off in their own direction, since he's trained he can pick apart the instruments to figure out who is playing what. Then he hears a violinist playing the 9th (one of the MOST popular basic pieces on string instruments) he gives that person the crazy eyes and they see that, so they start playing louder. People around that violinist hear that and decide to switch to that melody.
perhaps he uses a sequence of words/tones spread out over time. "Tune and Done" seem to be the triggers for a grid he creates. further, darren picked out this tune a long time ago, not the conductor. He spent a lot of time seeing this, he leaves nothing to chance. because of his intent and will, he is able to transfer those thoughts and feelings by electomagnetical signals as he touches him. also, this tune is about triumph and victory, which is important. getting the melody correct feels good.
i guess with a tune that common, and everyone doing something, it is not impossible that one person would get it. THen with his eyes he cuold pick that person, focus on them, and with everyone else looking and searching him, they might see which tune he was favouring, and copy it. then what ever key the first person was in, all others would change to fit it. D major was a matter of chance...
What I believe he does is to make eye contact with certain players in the orchestra... and as soon as he feels that they are coming close to whatever tune he choses, he relieves eye contact, giving the players confidence, which enables them to play louder and louder, influencing more and more around him or her that were not as loud because they weren't as sure of what they were playing.. Brown also mentions hitting certain spots and areas to hit. But of course, this could have not worked at all.
Twice he has a big, unusual pause before saying the word 'tune' - maybe ode to joy is more particularly and simply a 'tune' for orchestras than a 'symphony' or 'movement'
I hope this isn't YOUR book that you are trying so desperately to sell here on youtube through your comments. If this were your book you would undoubtedly post a video on how fantastic your book is and try to use your "Neuro-Linguistic Programming" to will people to buy it. mindreadingexposeddotcom is a poorly constructed website and needs demos if your planning on people purchasing your product. Good luck phony.
I for one am dumbfounded as to how he got the conductor to think of Ode to Joy, but I notice he makes alot of 'O' shapes with his gesticulating, and possibly 'J's with his left hand, as he gives the orchestra the rather verbose intructions on what to do. I image there's much more to it than this, but that's all I could see.
Two things I picked up on... "(pause)... your normal MODE of communication"... sounding a bit like ode... also, he says "it is a little ODD" to the whole orchestra. Maybe, just maybe, these are the hints... but how he got the conductor to write this down in the first place (unless there was some pre-work before the filming) I don't know.
yes also "none of you saw that, no, none of us possibly know" (N, N, N as in Nine) also he repeats the word "be" after in short succession ( Beethoven)
Does derren use any NLP in here or anything that would get the people thinking of D?
just wondering because i was thinking the letter D was in there somewhere and oDe to joy has D in it and it was D major??? and i'm also wondering b/c i don't know anything about music also so i don't even know what D major is.... ????
that everybody would choose the ode to joy. After all, the conductor may have chosen the piece because it is simple and well known and he might have thought it to be the simplest piece to communicate. The majority of the rest of the musicians might have chosen the ode to joy for the same reason and the rest would have followed suit.
hmmm, I have watched this carefully a few times now and for the life of me I can't figure it out. The fact that people like tyldrden were thinking of the ode to joy makes me think that once again derren has sublininally suggested the tune to his audiance. That said, I have gotten decent, I think, at hearing Derren's suggestive words and I heard none. My only other thought is that because the ode to joy is a particularly well known piece of classical music it may just be hugely porbable...
Not as good as the stuff in the Mindreading Exposed ebook
yeeeeahdroppingteam 3 months ago
at around :30 it sounds like hes saying "if it can be a classical please"
Tymetwister 7 months ago
I don't care if he's a magician or a mentalist, but that is absolutely fucking gorgeous<3
shadows9209 9 months ago
0:26 think of...... MAIL??? Something Wicked TWC lol
leeley05 9 months ago
5:08 nothing is random Enigma LOL
leeley05 9 months ago
I play the violin, and if you watch the bows in this song, they are all together. that makes it so this must be fake... If they were coming together on a random song and were playing random notes, then they would have different bow changes
Kneythen 10 months ago
@Kneythen ".. if you watch the bows in this song, they are all together. that makes it so this must be fake.." As a musician you surely know that it often takes only 2 or 3 notes to pick a tune. Every time the conductor heard more than one note in correct sequence his expression would change. After enough false starts the tune would emerge, confirmed by the conductors expression. As for bowing in sync it would be a natural tendency given what is trying to be achieved, wouldn't you say?
VirgilFoxMusic 7 months ago 3
There's a logical explanation for that one. They're professional musicians. Everyone has played that song before. You just have to find the right key and you're solid. It's not that hard.
xunclekevinx 11 months ago
@xunclekevinx yet it doesn't explain how they were able to pick the tune he was thinking of.
BaronZemoTwo 10 months ago
@xunclekevinx How is that a logical explanation? They didn't know the tune they were supposed to be playing.
StevenOBrienComposer 4 months ago
3:04 his face is great
xAndrzej42 1 year ago
I thought ''Ode to Joy'' in the very beginning :D
hraesvelgML 1 year ago
@hraesvelgML
Yes, you and the violinist at 3:45 both thought of "Ode to joy" in the very beginning. But that's about it... the rest were playing Mozart, Vivaldi and various practice patterns. Only after the conductor indicated that the violinist was on the right track, by restlessly nodding, did the entire orchestra (with eyes on the conductor) begin to play the named piece - by proximity and contagion.
It was a roll of the dice on the magician's part. No magic involved, no NLP. Just luck.
reghin79 1 year ago
@reghin79
Well, when I said ''in the beginning'', I meant before anyone started playing anything, when Derren said ''think of a classical piece''.
All thought, they might have ended up playing the ode to joy even without Derren's ''help'', since it's one of the most famous classical pieces.
hraesvelgML 1 year ago
@hraesvelgML
"since it's a famous classical piece" precisely one of my points.
reghin79 1 year ago
Well, they are told to play random things, whenever a musician plays the 9th, the conductor would look at him/her or give some kind of facial cue as to he/she's playing the right one, and that would encourage the musician to keep playing. After a while they would all be playing the same thing.
DragonfallCIA 1 year ago
I think in the beginning, Derren just plays the part of the dirigent himself, see his hands at 3:13 for example
he says at 2:04 "he is a little lot/ode"
and in the beginning he talks about a traditional or classical piece - which is the same ;)
deLord1337 1 year ago 2
The conductor reminds me so much of Rowan Atkinson when he speaks at the end
dylan9236 1 year ago 2
Mental or not, amazing it is! A lot of other reactions describe what actually is going on: each of the musicians have 'the same' tune in their head, maybe triggered by Derren's suggestions and 'approved' by the conductor (as are the tunes in the heads of the respondents).
What is shows is that communication is A LOT more than just words. And that is amazing indeed!!
(I wonder what made Derren think of this experiment...)
hwvankesteren 1 year ago
This is awesome!
PurpleHazeHippie 1 year ago
"I don't want to allow you your normal mODES OF communication" - 1:46-1:50
1:59-2:00 "you're not allOWED TO"
"it is a little ODD" - 2:03-2:04
2:07-2:12, and at 2:17 and at 2:33 he makes O shapes with his hands
all of these might be used for priming subconsciously the word "ODE"
MindManipulator93 1 year ago
@MindManipulator93
Maybe, but since Derren wasn't predicting anything himself, NLP would be useless. This is more just an example of the power of communication between a conductor and his players, or in the wider scale, a leader and his followers.
rkullberg 1 year ago
Comment removed
MindManipulator93 1 year ago
goosebumps
boobooandbooboo 1 year ago
lol that is weird, when they started i was hearing ode to joy in my head. that was weird
sdccds11 1 year ago
Once he heard the right tune, his facial cues let them know they were on the right track.
azvideoguy 1 year ago
Comment removed
FrozenCoils 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@azvideoguy
exactement ^^
FrozenCoils 1 year ago
nothing amazing about this. These are professional musicians who have plenty of repertoire internalized in their musical memory and once a few of them started playing around with the them to "ode" and the director let it be known through his facial expressions that this is what it was he had written down, they just all started playing that piece. It's the same as doing the same experiment with a group of jazz musicians. In no time they would have all picked up on a common theme or riff.
PINCHUNO 1 year ago
"it is a little odd...."
i had chosen that tune too.just great.
guillaumepirard 1 year ago
it's quite simple to explain, the conductor was searching for someone in the orchestra to start playing something in the tune of ode to joy, then when he heard it, he made eye contact with them, so that person played it a little bit louder, and other people followed.
it's basic human psychology, works the same way as people following fashion trends.
ConradMcBad 1 year ago
yes...like manicmedic86, during "warming up" i started to hum Ode to Joy in my head as well.
He maybe a memorization master, it is still an amazing talent/gift.
usr123638 1 year ago
I have chills! While they were "warming up" i started to hum Ode to Joy in my head. i damn near fell over in my chair when they brought it together!
manicmedic86 2 years ago 3
I think the conductor's head movements got the 'ritmo' going. You only need a few members of the orchestra to pick on it and the rest will follow. There is a lot of body language going on.
sericonti 2 years ago
I must admit he seemed to emphasize the words "be" a few times, so I thought it would be flight of the bumble bee....shows what I know.
andyf2280 2 years ago
to quote the wiki:
Hindsight bias is the inclination to see events that have occurred as more predictable than they in fact were before they took place. Hindsight bias has been demonstrated experimentally in a variety of settings, including politics, games and medicine. In psychological experiments of hindsight bias, subjects also tend to remember their predictions of future events as having been stronger than they actually were, in those cases where those predictions turn out correct.
caswir 2 years ago
Also, consider, that you predicting the piece of music may have been a result of you being manipulated by Darren through his words or actions. It's one of the few pieces of ubiquitous symphonic music easily referenced by a single number.
caswir 2 years ago
I guessed it would be Ode to Joy as soon as I saw the title for the video.
ChaoticRain1 2 years ago
It was not the experiment that amazed me. It was more the slow convergence of sounds till the ode. It was beautiful. I think this the way in which the universe operates..
Alexopolux 2 years ago 32
@Alexopolux Its sortof like a poetic Big Bang.
bckyrdboogie 2 years ago
@bckyrdboogie God's the conductor?
SlykeThePhoxenix 2 years ago
wwow
talk2malawyer 2 years ago
Honestly, this song was the first classical piece that popped into my mind. It must be the same for many others; it is a popular tune, after all.
AnotherCreativeMess 2 years ago
funny i was thinking its would probobly be the 9th before they even started. Not really impressive
badluck1986 2 years ago
same....
405mikey91 2 years ago
Haha, nicely spotted.
Vire70 2 years ago
The possibility that within the human psyche exists the possibilities of the paranormal is apparent in this video. To attack against dictionary words such as transference, supernatural, or strange forces, one must do so against the event itself. A study is example of the power of music to communicate through an emotional language with no need of linguistics, unseen, invisible, waves of thought listened to and acted upon in consensus. Bravo! Bravo! Bravo!
russocomedy 2 years ago
What rubbish. Derren Brown does these things on purpose using subtle hypnosis mostly. There is absolutely no paranormal mind reading going on...
Vire70 2 years ago
But that's the sense of everything: there is no mind reading. All mediums or "paranormal" investigators use the same skills that Brown uses: hypnosis.
SamHawkens 2 years ago
sam harris
christopher hitchens
richard dawkins
TwoTowersTruther 2 years ago
I am a sceptic concerning all paranormal investigations or so-called skills. They simply do not exist. But I am not fully an atheist. I say that scientists are actually discussing things like time travel or parallel universes -- if parallel universes exist, there might even be an afterlife.
That's my position: we don't know whether there is an afterlife or God. But we do know that there is no telekinesis, no "mind reading", no contact to deceased people.
SamHawkens 2 years ago
absolutely agree. i just said those names because I thought your youtube username was a combination of them.
btw just so i don't look like an idiot i'm not a 9/11 truther like my name suggests
TwoTowersTruther 2 years ago
No, my user name is no combination of them. It is the name of a persona in several old German western novels written by Karl May. ;-)
SamHawkens 2 years ago
@SamHawkens There's nothing magical about this, it's all sub-conscious.
SlykeThePhoxenix 2 years ago
But HOW exactly does it work. Of course it's sub-consciousness, man. But how does it work that all people play the same song?
SamHawkens 2 years ago
Listen to the overemphasized, mispronounced, unnecessary, or repeated words:
dYNnamic (nine)
pODium (ode)
"bhey don't have" (beethoven)
There were probably many more subconcious cues he gave them that were edited out for time.
Then the players played random noise until the conductor's body language told them they were getting warm... warmer...
They're used to responding to his body language, of course.
NorwalkPost 1 year ago 5
As in mass hysteria's uncontrolled thought effects on the minds of people, there are clinical features that guide us. As well, in this case by Derrin Brown, a form of controlled thought seeks consensus through a group of musicians who seek concert toward the familiar. In mass hysteria we have out of control thoughts. In this case, non-hysteria, a control thought experiment results in a positive. As to hypnosis or the paranormal, I am still skeptical with terms like 'absolute and rubbish.'
russocomedy 2 years ago
Thats the beauty of his skill. Its way mroe interesting to see someone be able to manipulate peoples thoughts rather than "mind read" like hundres of other youtube clips claim to do and which is still quite silly some may say. This is real stuff Derren Brown is doing.
kidkombat5 2 years ago 6
Do you realise that Derren Brown himself is a skeptic and an atheist?
Roxolan 2 years ago 29
Good question. He presents his effects in a way to create debate about the paranormal, unseen force fields sound, light, waves, emotional transpondence, gravity itself, specific signals that transmit prompt specific replies as in word association. As to the verity of the existence of the paranormal naturally its arguable. Im cool with that. I like to think of myself as a skeptic as wellalways open to proof of possibles other than the closed thought systems of cynicism. All the best.
russocomedy 2 years ago
do you think so?
tangerineful 2 years ago
he's prolly jiggling inside everytime someone thinks there's something supernatural going on :P
mads18 2 years ago
@Roxolan
Well first of he isn't an atheist and second if he wasn't a skeptic and thought he could really talk to dead and predict lottery numbers i would really consider him a looooone.
MeetYourMeaker 1 year ago
@MeetYourMeaker
The whole 'whose an Atheïst and who isn't' discussion usually crumbuls down when you include what definition of atheist your using.
According the 'Messiah' show he used to be a "Happy-flappy christian" and isn't anymore, witch makes alot of people assume that he isn't a Theïst. Following the definition most self-declaired youtube atheists use hes therefore is an atheist (non-theist).
This is all based on the assumtion that he doesn't think theres a God.
wybo2 1 year ago
@wybo2
Yeah atheism=not theism.And as you've said he's not a christian anymore that's just atheism with respect to Christianity not in general.But who cares the guy is awesome and fun to wach that's what really matters.
MeetYourMeaker 1 year ago
That is so cool. Does he ever go on to explain how exactly that worked? That's a fabulously powerful trick. People are so much more interesting than we give credit for. Nothing supernatural, just people. Beautiful.
katiekawaii 2 years ago
not a trick, it is a skill
zehanwang 2 years ago
i thought about the Ode to Joy at the beginning of the experiment lol
metlahead6 2 years ago
It's unimpressive. The tune is so easy to achieve by just playing scales randomly, especially when people are already familiar with it. You just need a random "mi mi fa so so fa mi rai" and that leads on to Ode to Joy You already!
This show still awes people because most viewers are generally unfamiliar with classical music, have never been in an orchestra before and are not musically trained. It thus seems as if it was dictated by "strange forces". It is not.
pinkwaterbottle 2 years ago
Well how about the conductor? You saw him, by watching the end of this video, impressed right?
He is very familiar with classical music and musically trained too. And also look at those musicians after they played Ode To Joy they were also impressed with what they have just done :D
nihonjin08 2 years ago 2
Derren Brown never claims it to be dictated by "strange forces," as you say. Of course he uses some trick. Also, your explanation doesn't explain it being in the key of D major.
booschman 2 years ago
is the black guy obama !!! lol
faethon85 2 years ago
Keep in mind too that Ode to Joy is one of the first songs people learn to play on instruments because it is easy. When the people in the orchestra were uncertain, they went back to something that was familiar to them, which was that song. Also, he did not write down the key as D major, which could indicate that he just said what he heard them playing.
teenzo 2 years ago
Umm..I have played an instrument for many many years, and Ode to Joy was not the first Concert peice I learned to play. I cannot remember the name at the moment, but I know it was not that peice.
Keeroe 2 years ago
Ya, i've been playing the Tenor Saxophone for about 2-3 years and i still don't know how to play Ode to Joy, =p
sluffer646 2 years ago
Psy effect key points:
2:00 it is a little odd
2:20 feel free to move [joy state] tune
3:50 [body congruence suggesting correct tune ;-)]
M3st3ry 2 years ago
This wasn't a trick of suggestion by Derren. This is how pets sometimes "train" themselves to learn rules that no one taught them. The orchestra was playing random sounds, and when the conductor heard tunes that he recognized as correct, his body language communicated that to the players, whether they realized it or not. They began to realize what sounds got good reactions and which did not, so the frequency of "good" sounds increased until it came together into something that they all knew.
Raphite1 2 years ago 5
r u sure???
talk2malawyer 2 years ago
When he is telling him to write down the tune, he says "see" about 1000 times. Does anyone know if the key of "C" has any relevance to ode of joy?
Jsquaredizzle 2 years ago
no, at the end the conductor said they were playing in D major.
timmytornado12345 2 years ago
starting with "robin, i'm really fascinated", derren's singing the tune while he talks.
brilliant.
piersh 2 years ago
no way
hannahjiyan 2 years ago
I replayed it to listen, and I think Piersh is right. That's also why he won't shut up for the longest time, which was the only thing I noticed at first.
elricester 2 years ago
it deosnt sound like it
harsha8976 2 years ago
Very clever observation. Yeah, subtle, but perceptible...
Great find by the way...
Pistolero24 2 years ago
Pretty good but if just 1 person knows the tune the rest will no doubt follow as it was said .
Realmasterorder 2 years ago
"tuned to D, G and A, so these are going to be heard the most by far. These three notes are the only notes in the bass line for the Ode To Joy"
Adding on to that, once one person starts to play Ode to Joy, the whole orchestra will probably follow. So...probability also helps
Japanzor 2 years ago 3
This is how the trick is done. One of the player knows what piece the conductor is thinking before hand. Then you tell all the players to improvise until they hear something that they already know from another player in the orchestra.
That explains the evolution from the "cluster" to the end! Also the weak harmonization and orchestration that we can easily see that is being improvised.
Still funny and entertaining!
andrelousada 3 years ago
True. It's like the only cool interval was at the end when they reached the tonic. Why 3rds?
halfasemitone 2 years ago
According to his book, Derren Brown Claims to NEvER use stooges in his work, and preintimidation. He doesn't promote certain actions before a trick, and if he rigs it, it will most likely be revealed to us, because he wants us to know that he tricked us. This may be the real deal guys.
LeviathanRisingUp 2 years ago 3
Word.
sumoivar 2 years ago
really? so not only can they play orchestral music....they are also mind readers
sdc3536 2 years ago
00:11
OMG
Olzme 3 years ago 2
Comment removed
JovialJuggler 3 years ago
Lol "Next: Father Ted". Haha funny show. Sorry just had to bring that up, well done Derren btw!
NZartfuldando 3 years ago
well i was thinking beathoven 9th as well so im pretty sure there are audio cue's in there he uses word like this but say's it like you would in nineth
brentyesm 3 years ago
i picked akon ill still kill...i was wrong :(
frozenflamelien 3 years ago
lol XD
johnnydark 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
darren brown is fake
WKaliber1 3 years ago
Oh really? And did you post that just to get attention and reactions? Hmm? Good luck with life mate.
NZartfuldando 3 years ago
Kocham cie
WKaliber1 3 years ago
...
NZartfuldando 3 years ago
In addition to what I said below, he suggests playing scales, which is exactly what the Ode To Joy is built upon. My teacher taught the song in 5th grade precisely because of this - so we could learn our scales.
I like Derren Brown, but being a musician, this trick isn't impressive to me. Ode To Joy is the most famous section of one of the most famous pieces in Classical Music; I'm sure these musicians play/hear it all the time. Plus, the instruments on stage are just what you'd need to play it
shizohal 3 years ago
yeah but the real trick is getting the guy to write down that piece... I picked bethovens 9th
gtq838 3 years ago
the point isn't that he is 'magic'.... the fact that this suggestion is happening is insane, shizohal
slr31 3 years ago
Of course it's going to come out in the key of D, for two reasons:
1) That's the original key.
2) Derren tells them to tune. Every stringed instrument in that group has open strings tuned to D, G and A, so these are going to be heard the most by far. These three notes are the only notes in the bass line for the Ode To Joy (besides a few quick decorative chords), and outline the harmonic progression I-IV-V in D, which is the most common progression in tonal music, very strongly suggesting D.
shizohal 3 years ago 3
just goes to show how humans communicate with each other, there are subtleties to every thing we do from body language to maybe even mental energy, it is so amazing to people because often times people aren't paying attention, but it is happening all of the time. With musicians, they must be aware of each other in order to produce good music, so they are trained to be aware. also notice how darren brown's hand gestures match those of the conductor when he starts conducting.
manoele 3 years ago
Maybe penguin magic's new "PK sounds"
65mac07 3 years ago
it kinda looks like he was conducting at around 3:00
VSL123 3 years ago
Derren Brown is a master of suggestion, obviously. I think he used subliminal messaging before the show, perhaps when he was briefing the orchestra, and with little messages, he was able to make the orchestra and the conductor have Ode to Joy in the back of their heads. So when they were asked to play it, that was the first thing that came to their mind.
Jaylawtheman 3 years ago 2
ops.... im forget about the conductor.... the truth is i dont know....
PakcikRock 3 years ago
one of them figure out a song.... and the others just follow him/her.... there goes the song, nothing extraordinary...
PakcikRock 3 years ago
That's all very well, but how did it match what the conductor wrote, you fool.
zzaaaid 3 years ago
Haha, you're the fool. The conductor wrote down 'Ode To Joy' and that's what the orchestra played.
MysteriaPearl 3 years ago
My friend was messing around with a xylophone (btw, shes musically illiterate) and started playing this. I shit my pants. I'm a believer!
Muchodelcrazy 3 years ago
This was very wierd! When he was telling the conductor to think of a piece of music this was what started playing in my head!
ashc241185 3 years ago
he told the conductor what to conduct, and then using the conductor and using his own actions, he managed to convince the remaining ppl to follow on.. only explanation i can think of
imagodwarrior 3 years ago
NLP? Subliminal Suggestion? Hypnosis? Unlikely. Try this on 10 orchestras and seven would probably end up with the Ode to Joy. The surprising thing is not that the participants in Derren's tricks are conned into believing that he has special powers, but that he gives succour to those dubious commentators who promote NLP and similar nonsense as something new and powerful. Trying to influence people successfully and trying to predict their actions is a skill as old as Adam and Eve.
rw1Han2 3 years ago
wow...my arms hair went up seriously...
novax9 3 years ago
his voice makes me tingle.
RSManaana 3 years ago
Derren begins hypnotizing the conductor at 0:32 with a deep, long stare. At 1:29 he makes a fist like an 'O' and caps his other hand over it like the top of a 'J' at the same time telling the conductor he's going to communicate this. The orchestra would have subliminally noticed the hand movements. Also, he begins by describing feelings, like fascinated, genuine, relationship, whole, dynamic and 'layers of control' lol.
DreamerHind 3 years ago
well, when he turned to speak to the orchestra he was moving his hands like a conductor would when conducting Ode to a Joy, the people watching would take it in subliminally and then without knowing it they play bits of Ode to Joy when playing somthing "random" then like the dude at the end said the rest just join in. So the conductor is basically doing nothing other than point out the people playing it with his facial expressions :)
JayReptile 3 years ago
umm conductor's "conduct" based on what beat the song is, like 4/4 or 3/4 or something like that. obviously there are two explanations for derren. He is one of the most successful cons ever, or he is like he suggests a master of psychology
AoEFreak54321 3 years ago
If you listen to him he subliminally leads them to Ode to Joy. He says, "The tune can be anything, classical, traditional, whatever". So its already narrowed down to classical. IF you thought of Ode to Joy its because he suggested it to you.
kittyloaf1 3 years ago
i believe derren brown plants the tune into the conductors mind subcontiously, then when he is explaining to the crowd, you can see he is waving his arms around, could it be possible derren brown is conducting the orchestra to start with? along with what other people said about playing louder ect
purdjy 3 years ago
alot of conductors actually play instruments themselves
lancelangston 3 years ago
I think all conductors need to know how to play instruments. (Not all the instruments, obviously)
artthinkers 3 years ago
I think its a leg pull! I think the orchestra were in on it. That is the way magicians get airplanes to disappear in front of vast crowds on TV. The crowd is in on it and move over to a no plane set as the camera cuts away and turns. Or one member of the orchestra or all were in on it and sort of 'follow me chaps' kicks in.If it looks too good to be true it probably is. Great fun though!
JanetteHeffernan 3 years ago
Nick, you are an idiot.
YuGiOh15X 3 years ago
kinda like the general of an army, sure the soldiers do the fighting and training but they need someone to tell them who to kill (orders to kill people = interpreting music)
rruubbiinn 3 years ago
conductors interpret the music and how the musicians should play it, theres no set way to how any piece of music should be played. they give suggestions and its up to the conductor to decide how it should sound. making the music a very accurate representation of the conductors personality. they also keep the band from falling apart by giving cues and keeping everyone in the same tempo. so yes, the conductor is the most important person in the band.
rruubbiinn 3 years ago
OMG! as soon as he asked him 2 think of I piece I immediately thought of Ode to Joy!! freaky!
MeAndHammond4eva 3 years ago
woah ur psychic, lol!
i first thought of the william tell overture lol!
ChiaraMcD 3 years ago
thats why this trick works silly!
ikissfutbol89 2 years ago
sorry it's just that most people i know who have said that no nothing about music.
but conductors practice conducting believe it or not.
selphiexfairy 3 years ago
its extremley hard to be a conductor, you to able to hear whats wrong and need to be done
korvlada 3 years ago
have you ever played in a musical ensemble??
the director is THE most important person in the group.
selphiexfairy 3 years ago
magnificent!!!
salsadance999 3 years ago
The violinist was just going through his/her repetoire. Thats what i would have done, I would try and figure out what he was thinking versus him mentally sending me the information. Talk to any real musician and see if they think this is full of crap (or at least full of crap the way the magician explains it). And cursevirus, you probably picked this piece because it is an EXTREMELY well-known piece. The piece I picked was the The Rite of Spring. A little bit harder than what he picked.
musicaltheory1 3 years ago
OR......a much more logical explanation.....He picked the melody, then everyone went off in their own direction, since he's trained he can pick apart the instruments to figure out who is playing what. Then he hears a violinist playing the 9th (one of the MOST popular basic pieces on string instruments) he gives that person the crazy eyes and they see that, so they start playing louder. People around that violinist hear that and decide to switch to that melody.
musicaltheory1 3 years ago
choice known tune
they worked together long time
they know him very well, conductor, his mimics
they start some tune, and know reaction of conductor well - just follow instincts
but it is wonderful, no magic -- training, as usual
bullheadfuzzy 3 years ago
its to do with the amount off times he uses words with the letter "s".. listen to him before they start to play.
mayafee 3 years ago
im going to physically restrin you.... lol i wuldnt mind
lnorris991 3 years ago 2
That was tight. I cant figure him.
majik1206 3 years ago
scary eyed conductor
lukozade2507 3 years ago 3
WHAT? that was the tune what i was thinking of... any suggestions why? maybe derren suggested something that my subconscious took. lol
plz reply
cursevirus 3 years ago
perhaps he uses a sequence of words/tones spread out over time. "Tune and Done" seem to be the triggers for a grid he creates. further, darren picked out this tune a long time ago, not the conductor. He spent a lot of time seeing this, he leaves nothing to chance. because of his intent and will, he is able to transfer those thoughts and feelings by electomagnetical signals as he touches him. also, this tune is about triumph and victory, which is important. getting the melody correct feels good.
hiccupofirony 3 years ago
man...
i guess with a tune that common, and everyone doing something, it is not impossible that one person would get it. THen with his eyes he cuold pick that person, focus on them, and with everyone else looking and searching him, they might see which tune he was favouring, and copy it. then what ever key the first person was in, all others would change to fit it. D major was a matter of chance...
dunno, just my guesses.
kangaroo1992 3 years ago 2
dude FUCK OFF
kewballl 3 years ago
amazing as usual
1Cmanny1 3 years ago
I understand that the guys at mindreadingexposed get together every Saturday to have a gay orgy- is this true?
PhilMcCool 3 years ago 4
Lol!
PreyAmongTheWolves 3 years ago 2
What I believe he does is to make eye contact with certain players in the orchestra... and as soon as he feels that they are coming close to whatever tune he choses, he relieves eye contact, giving the players confidence, which enables them to play louder and louder, influencing more and more around him or her that were not as loud because they weren't as sure of what they were playing.. Brown also mentions hitting certain spots and areas to hit. But of course, this could have not worked at all.
Hyon5 3 years ago 2
I wish I knew how he does that
aaalessandraaa 3 years ago 2
when one person happens upon the correct tune, i spose that starts off the rest. how he managed that though...
TheFlyingPurpleHippo 3 years ago
Twice he has a big, unusual pause before saying the word 'tune' - maybe ode to joy is more particularly and simply a 'tune' for orchestras than a 'symphony' or 'movement'
oxyharmonic 3 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Not as good as the stuff at: mindreadingexposed_dot-com_
dmdfan07cb I suggest you attend some anger management classes and perhaps English grammer classes too!
simargl16141 3 years ago
I hope this isn't YOUR book that you are trying so desperately to sell here on youtube through your comments. If this were your book you would undoubtedly post a video on how fantastic your book is and try to use your "Neuro-Linguistic Programming" to will people to buy it. mindreadingexposeddotcom is a poorly constructed website and needs demos if your planning on people purchasing your product. Good luck phony.
T31212A 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
i belive at 1:17 he showed it to 2 players enuf to start the tune then the rest just fell in
slashdime 3 years ago
wow amazing
randomafied 3 years ago
very nice , even when chaotic and then moves to ode joy , very experimental
jmm1233 3 years ago
I for one am dumbfounded as to how he got the conductor to think of Ode to Joy, but I notice he makes alot of 'O' shapes with his gesticulating, and possibly 'J's with his left hand, as he gives the orchestra the rather verbose intructions on what to do. I image there's much more to it than this, but that's all I could see.
xMadamGuillotinex 3 years ago
next ---> Father Ted
LOL!
dan2o07 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
One of them started (a stooge) and the rest followed....
bruceleeC64 3 years ago
LOL i was thinking ode to joy too LOL
AlphaBoy95 3 years ago
Two things I picked up on... "(pause)... your normal MODE of communication"... sounding a bit like ode... also, he says "it is a little ODD" to the whole orchestra. Maybe, just maybe, these are the hints... but how he got the conductor to write this down in the first place (unless there was some pre-work before the filming) I don't know.
oxyharmonic 3 years ago 2
yes also "none of you saw that, no, none of us possibly know" (N, N, N as in Nine) also he repeats the word "be" after in short succession ( Beethoven)
milesgordon8 3 years ago
D major is easy, cos the piece IS in D major. And it's the kind of key that would come out of a load of string players tootling around.
CursoryB 3 years ago
It's great. HE implanted the song, not the conductor. I would give ANYTHING to be able to do this.
Deathbreak911 3 years ago
Read deeper and deeper by John Chase and every book by Bandler you can get your hands on. Practice obsessively and youl get it.
Wolfwood7149 3 years ago
Does derren use any NLP in here or anything that would get the people thinking of D?
just wondering because i was thinking the letter D was in there somewhere and oDe to joy has D in it and it was D major??? and i'm also wondering b/c i don't know anything about music also so i don't even know what D major is.... ????
DatSpunky8992 3 years ago
i think that ur extending the nlp a bit there. lol!!
NCrosskey92 3 years ago
I was thinking william tell
TheDigitalMonk 3 years ago
that everybody would choose the ode to joy. After all, the conductor may have chosen the piece because it is simple and well known and he might have thought it to be the simplest piece to communicate. The majority of the rest of the musicians might have chosen the ode to joy for the same reason and the rest would have followed suit.
Wolfwood7149 3 years ago 3
hmmm, I have watched this carefully a few times now and for the life of me I can't figure it out. The fact that people like tyldrden were thinking of the ode to joy makes me think that once again derren has sublininally suggested the tune to his audiance. That said, I have gotten decent, I think, at hearing Derren's suggestive words and I heard none. My only other thought is that because the ode to joy is a particularly well known piece of classical music it may just be hugely porbable...
Wolfwood7149 3 years ago
The girl at 00:11 is beautiful.
tonsofun2 3 years ago 2