JP Rushton and David Suzuki debate at the University of Western Ontario, February 8th, 1989

[TheDragon967]

Only one thing that Suzuki messed up. Indians/South Asians/Iranians/Aryans....we have no interest in being associated with Europeans, so don't associate us with them. So called Aryans came out of Eurasia cause they got tired of all the bullshit and wanted to seek a better life, so they came down to Central Asia and spread to Iran and India. The Aryans were not racist and so they did breed with the local natives which led to creation of modern day India and Iran!

[SupremekaiD5]

Rushton is racist he's been asked several times to come to africa with his experts to try and prove his claims but declines or doesent get back with them why rushton go to africa and prove it. Then people claim he's not racist because he puts asians above whites in IQ only by 5 points but puts blacks 30 points behind what a liar he is.

[Ponerology]

@SupremekaiD5

Its not him that puts Asians ahead and Blacks behind, but the IQ scores gathered from numerous sources of data. Isn't the condition of Africa, and its history, proof enough?

[EgalitarianJay]

@Ponerology No, it's not. It would be like Arab Muslims going to Europe during the dark ages when Islamic culture was at its height and concluding that Europeans were stupid then giving Europeans IQ tests designed by Arabs to prove that Europeans are stupid. Incidentally Arab explorers did go to Europe and believed Europeans had primitive backward cultures which were evidence of stupidity. Humans have the ability to learn and advance culturally.

[Ponerology]

@EgalitarianJay

How do we know that IQ tests were "designed" to show certain people were stupid? I thought they were validated (by construct, content, discriminant or other form of validity) to show what a person's intellectual capabilities are.

I sure hope you guys are right, because if Rushton, Lynn and Shockley are on the mark then society has big problems down the road.

[EgalitarianJay]

@Ponerology The original IQ test designed by Alfred Binet in 1916 was intended to help identify children with learning disabilities who need special help with their education. But in the following years it was abused by eugenicists to try to identify intelligence differences between groups of people. Its early targets were certain European immigrants. Modern Hereditarians practice the same philosophy. They are trying to prove a genetic component to group IQ differences.

[Ponerology]

@EgalitarianJay

"Modern Hereditarians practice the same philosophy. They are trying to prove a genetic component to group IQ differences." Translation: They have evidence to support a powerful genetic component in racial IQ differences. Certain people just don't like the results.

[SupremekaiD5]

@Ponerology and whats that evidence of course racism.

[EgalitarianJay]

@Ponerology No they don't have powerful evidence. They have an ideological agenda and pseudoscience. Suzuki exposed how unscientific Rushton's research is as have others.

[SupremekaiD5]

@Ponerology You mean Africas history of european colonization which caused the problems you see today there

[Ponerology]

@SupremekaiD5

And how did the Europeans, Arabs and now Chinese get away with this? How do they manage to oppress people of African descent so effectively in their own countries, even when their are laws to promote racial equality?

[SupremekaiD5]

@Ponerology european imperialism caused the problem you see today in africa all europe did was exploiit and plunder the continent of its natural resources and divide up the lands which in the berlin conference of course known as the scramble for africa.

[SupremekaiD5]

@Ponerology No chinese are not oppressing africa they are helping heal the damage caused by europeans and now the europeans are now trying to accuse the chinese of neo colonialism of africa

[PumpingSmashkins]

Suzuki failed so miserably it's laughable. He didn't even try to refute any of Rushton's facts and conclusions scientifically (I wonder why). Instead, he rants and raves like a madman. His final statement summed it up perfectly: if the truth might be painful, it must not be revealed. That's exactly what he was saying all along, I was just surprised to hear him say it so plainly...and of course, the sheep in the audience applauded it.

[strong8action]

it's quite a contrast between reston's dispassionate scientific approach, compared with the reactionary and emotional response of his opposition.

[strong8action]

Stephen Jay Gould was one of the foremost critics of "the bell curve". Gould was a neo lysencoist like Graves; always grasping for ways to discredit racial science, including throwing around the accusation of "racism". ironically gould was recently exposed as a complete and utter fraud home doctor dishes experiments to support his egalitarian political agenda.

[farche2]

What a weak showing for Suzuki. And his conclusion undercuts his own position: don't explore painful areas, in case truth hurts.

[EgalitarianJay]

Thanks for uploading this debate. I've wanted to see it for awhile. Suzuki's arguments were reminiscent of Joseph Graves arguments in the video I uploaded. The biggest difference is that Suzuki's argument only went so far as stating why Rushton's methodology was flawed and his theories shouldn't be taken seriously. Graves went further to explain why Rushton's research cannot test let alone prove his hypothesis. Rushton to this day is unable to challenge Graves evolutionary arguments.

[n00ffensebut]

@EgalitarianJay

I saw those videos. I did not think that Graves' arguments came across clearly, but it sounded like he was disputing r-K theory, in general, not just for race, which would put him at odds with more scientists than just Rushton. Rushton and Graves had an exchange in a journal, which I have not read, yet, but I know that it will be included in the Open Race Project online study library, when that is up.

[EgalitarianJay]

@n00ffensebut If you read Graves "Tangled Web" article you can probably grasp his main points more easily. Graves has provided me with some simplistic summaries of his argument via email which I can share. His presentation in the video was a critique of Rushton's life history theory which is centered around r-K theory. That ecological theory was falsified by empirical experiments over the course of a few decades and almost universally abandoned by the 1990s.

[EgalitarianJay]

@n00ffensebut I'm not aware of Rushton responding to Graves in a published article. Graves has written at least two articles on Rushton which he sent me via email. I had a debate on a message board about this and my opponent emailed Rushton to get him to comment on Graves critique. Rushton provided a response and forwarded the email to Graves who responded in kind. I have those emails saved and have posted them on a few message boards that discussed the topic.

[Evaporator134a]

@EgalitarianJay huh? All he did was cry about how offended he was like a child. needs to learn science.

[EgalitarianJay]

@Evaporator134a Suzuki schooled Rushton on scientific methodology and explained why his approach was unscientific. Rushton wasn't able to refute any of the points Suzuki made and was left to complain at him expressing outrage at Rushton's offensive and pseudoscientific work.

[Evaporator134a]

@EgalitarianJay All i noticed were the ad homs. I reckon he is wrong from adoption studies but that other guy should have been more scientific.

[EgalitarianJay]

@Evaporator134a I didn't hear any ad hominems. Suzuki stated that he didn't consider Rushton's work to be scientific. He felt that research should be able to meet reasonable academic standards and explained why Rushton's didn't. Chiefly his main criticism of Rushton was his inaccurate application of heritability and his confirmation bias. Rushton's method of testing his hypothesis is not credible and he ignores the work that challenges his theories. All of that is there.

[Ponerology]

@EgalitarianJay

Even the one woman who stoop up about an hour into it said that Suzuki was not debating. Why couldn't Suzuki sum up his attacks at the end, instead of rallying the troops to "stand up" against Rushton? That was ridiculous. Just because there is genetic variation within a race does not debunk Rushton.

[EgalitarianJay]

@Ponerology Hers was one opinion among many and she was clearly in the minority. Suzuki did debate. But he also believed that Rushton's work should not be dignified with this kind of attention because it did not meet basic standards of academic integrity. Suzuki cited Cavalli-Sforza's work as evidence that the genetic differentiation between human populations was too small to account for major differences in a polygenic traits like intelligence and behavior.

[jpzhouutube]

thanks for the video. I guess the average IQ of students in the hall is < 90. It has proven Rushton's theory....

[Musketor]

SO they realised they were wrong and lost the debate and then proceeded to shit it up totally by asking dumb questions and being all emotional. "Think of my black son buhu ;_;"

[marsz1969]

The idiots are laughing at Rushton.

[zertulu]

HAHAHAHA A BUNCH OF WHINERS AND DENIERS.

[zertulu]

HAHAH NICE PROPAGANDA MR SUZUKI

[Uberdoppelganger]

first dude has data, second dude cuts a cuts a wrestling promo that would make hulk hogan blush.

[SCHMITTIANJURIST]

I like how Suzuki comes out with an ideological tirade unrelated to Rushton's claims.

[superspammer69]

/news/

[culturalhonesty]

1:43:52 Suzuki ends up admitting that Rushton was right all along, Suzuki admits he is a pathetic liar

[OpenTheTrollGate]

@culturalhonesty he would lose his job if he told his honest opinion, like MR WHUT?SON..

[culturalhonesty]

the African who couldnt figure out a microphone or understand the concept of a question, was evidence backing Rushton's case

[1stworlder]

Suzuki- we can never know because of racism

Unless blacks are racist against blacks interpol crime #s from africa vs everywhere else will show the truth.

[wiseBRILLIANTgenius]

Suzuki is a total crackpot. Apparently the silly fucker thinks he's got an inside track to all knowledge. He also pretends to be an expert in meteorology and "global warming"

And how about the twit who thought she had him by the toe with her leading questions about the Pioneer Fund. Thank heavens for the Pioneer fund.

The mod here was not really up on his toes. When they start launching into diatribes and polemics they need to get the hook.

[WesternVoices3]

JP Rushton won the debate and as usual the White Hating Bigots, including David Suzuki freaked out emotionally. Equality of the races is just another lie of the Jewish Zionists who hate White people. Down with Zionism!

[Darklordabc]

this was amazing, thanks so much for the upload!

[Caucasianpride1]

What Rushton says makes perfect sense, that's all! It's so obvious in our contemporary society, the striking differences among races, that i don't understand why Mr. Suzuki can't just acknowledge it!

[TheWNMan]

@Caucasianpride1 wrote: "i don't understand why Mr. Suzuki can't just acknowledge it"

Answer is simple: Mr Suzuki (I hesitate to address him as Dr.) is only interested in protecting his perks/pensions that come with being a Uni. Prof.

I think he knows the truth, but like most profs. they don't want to lose their jobs.

[Heimdallr1000]

Wait, he hasn't read any psychology papers or research, or at least he is not very familiar with the topic (36:20), but then he can critique Rushton's work? How? I wonder if Suzuki actually read any of Rushton's work himself prior to the debate.

[TheWNMan]

@Heimdallr1000 Any prof who advocates the degeneracy and lies of the left/marxist ideals does not have to read their opponents writings because they have a head start in academia, mainstream media and schooling systems. All they need to do is to mumble some cliched phrases about "tolerance and diversity" without a single shred of evidence, and they win mass audiences. Modern educational systems are LARGELY to blame for this.  That's why I'm a huge HOME SCHOOLING advocate. :)

[Heimdallr1000]

I love Rushton's nod at 34:15, he's just like "alrrrriiighty then..."

[1187gogo]

Rushton for the win!!!

[1187gogo]

1:02 David Suziki isn't a geneticist, he write dumbass children's science books. This reflects his contribution to the debate which was childish and an embarassment to him. But as Professor Rushton says, Asians are smarter on average, not ALL Asians are smart e.g. Suziki is a moron.

[billiegymbob]

@1187gogo LOL!!!!

[FitnessByMatt]

It's hilarious how the guy at around 1:30:00 predicted DNA would prove Rushton wrong and so far it has been exactly the opposite.

[FitnessByMatt]

1:18:23 - Idiot.

[cherrypopsiclesful]

@FitnessByMatt why ? 1 hour 18 minutes ?? 1 minute 18 seconds ?? both were right anyway

[FitnessByMatt]

@cherrypopsiclesful 1 hour 18 minutes and 23 seconds.

[txredriver]

People who come up to speak at the Q&A time, need to realize that dumb and emotional questions, only make their side look more anti-intellectual.

[cherrypopsiclesful]

@txredriver anti-intellectual is codeword for anti racist.

[xltrt]

lost all respect for suzuki

[billiegymbob]

@xltrt Ditto.

[cherrypopsiclesful]

Rushton,- now spends the rest of his life bitter, frustrated, in his dressing gown in front of the fireplace with a bottle of whiskey. fantasising about the mexican across the street.



[TheWNMan]

@cherrypopsiclesful wrote" Rushton,-  now spends the rest of his life bitter, frustrated, in his dressing gown in front of the fireplace with a bottle of whiskey. fantasising about the mexican across the street."

Wrong. Rushton is still very active in perpetuating racial reality. There are thousands of internet blogs quoting his works. And there is NOTHING you and your cultural marxist ilk can do about that.

[1187gogo]

@TheWNMan Damn u youtube this statement is NOT spam, just because people can't hack proven science...

[cherrypopsiclesful]

@1187gogo sex with whoopi goldberg

[FightCensorship102]

@ 1:09:10 What an genius!!! haha lol Not!!!

[FitnessByMatt]

@FightCensorship102 It's sad all people have to "refute" Rushton with are appeals to emotion.

[readyornot90]

The audience seems to be thinking more emotionally than logically.

[TheWNMan]

@readyornot90 That is the result of many years of cultural marxist indoctrination at the hands of so-called "intellectuals" like suzuki, who, don't debate much but rather just tout the same ridiculous cliches in order to preserve their big pay cheques and pensions. Suzuki, you're a tool!

[readyornot90]

@TheWNMan I agree 100%. Suzuki didn't rebut any of Rushton's evidence and instead based his argument on political correctness and emotions. However, what really puzzles is me is the audience--that audience was very ignorant and didn't take any of Rushton's argument into consideration, despite having much evidence to substantiate it.

[cherrypopsiclesful]

@readyornot90 that doesn't make rushton right. and why shouldn't they get personal ??

[readyornot90]

@cherrypopsiclesful How are Rushton's studies incorrect? You should read his book, Race, Evolution, and Behavior for more evidence. As for why shouldn't they get personal: well, it's a scientific debate, not a moral one. Science is here to teach us the truth, even if it is psychologically discomforting.

[cherrypopsiclesful]

@readyornot90 so if you're a white supremacist, just say japanese are cleverer and then you can get away with being a racist !! lol

[readyornot90]

@cherrypopsiclesful Wait, what the hell are you saying? Who's talking about making excuses for White supremacy?

[TheWNMan]

@cherrypopsiclesful It DOES make Dr. Rushton right because emotions do not make arguments - NEVER.

As to why they should not get personal is because a scholarly debate is about presenting and debating facts in a logical manner. Not flinging personal insults at one's opponent, which Suzuki is CLEARLY at fault here.

[cherrypopsiclesful]

@TheWNMan Rushton is a fascist

[TheWNMan]

@readyornot90 wrote: "that audience was very ignorant and didn't take any of Rushton's argument into consideration, despite having much evidence to substantiate it."

Exactly. As I have stated, most young people have been indoctrinated to accept this emotional garbage from Suzuki and to ignore scientific FACTS from Dr. Rushton. Sadly, it will take a tragic event upon those left wing followers to reset the natural "racial safeguards" that nature has given them.

[1187gogo]

@readyornot90 wonder what Suzuki would say today with the knowledge that Rushton has augmented his argument so much. Dare you to write Suzi a letter. :D

[FitnessByMatt]

@readyornot90 So true, great post.

[PseudoAdministrator]

Thanks for uploading this "n00ffensebut", I have been looking for this video for awhile.

[45means45]

Behind the black minister to the left is the Marxist professor of sociology. You can seem him through out Rushton's speech jumping up and down...

[45means45]

1:08:22 Over the top!! I mean it's fair game to call for the firing of your opponent in the first minute of your opening speech, but pointing out the absurdity of your opponents antics is just OVER THE TOP!

[DragonnSlayerr]

wow, where did you find this video? I remember looking for it years ago but couldnt find it.

[Ponerology]

Me thinks they do protest too much.

Thanks so much for posting.

[hobosmurf]

he sounds more like a political commissar than a scientist

[DKshad0w]

@56:48 Lewontin's fallacy. Is this guy really a geneticist?

[45means45]

@DKshad0w Doesn't Suzuki just have a nice black militant vibe about him?

[FitnessByMatt]

@DKshad0w I noticed that too but to be fair, this video was 14 years before Lewontin's thesis that races do not have taxonomic significance proved to be a fallacy. Now basically all concepts in racial equality have proven to be fallacious.

[OpenTheTrollGate]

@DKshad0w he would lose his job if he told his honest opinion, like MR WHUT?SON..

[DKshad0w]

@18:25 WTF?