RE: Pagan Christianity and the Fad Driven Church

[PositiveShift]

Christianity itself is a fad

[AikenBruce]

Please excuse my lack of understanding:

Is 'works' acts of love towards humanity or nature?

Or that 'works' is following God's commands?

[waltherchemnitz]

@AikenBruce the greatest commandment... Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and second is like it, love your neighbor as yourself. Those are commandments. You are to follow them, and do them as your father in heaven does them, which is perfectly. So when someone says, "look at these acts of love I did", if they do them before men, they get their reward now, but if they do them to manipulate God, they are condemned by the commandment they tried to do.

[waltherchemnitz]

@waltherchemnitz So how can I help you understand?

[waltherchemnitz]

@Canuckster1127 The point is, Barna helped create the very church environment he and viola now rage against. "The audience is sovereign, not the message".

[cocampro]

Obedience is a since of works.

[VitalemRecords]

Wait, is it a new fad, or had it been around for a long time???

[waltherchemnitz]

@SpirituallyTuned So, how is it then that God reveals anything to you other than His Word? A simple answer would be nice.

[waltherchemnitz]

@SpirituallyTuned ok, lets see how this works. You knew, a priori, that the "modern church" wasn't biblical, ergo, my claim is false. That's a logical Fallacy. You just made an appeal to authority, which by the way, so do Barna and Viola. They are emmergent types, and Barna himself is partly responsible for creating the very kind of church he cries out against in the book.

Got Logic?

[TheJump612]

Yep. Right on. The Emergent/Emerging churches, as well as the 7 Mountains movement have become proponents of this trend. What alarms me is that it is difficult for me to think of one church that hasn't bought into some portion, if not all, of these myths.... We cannot serve 2 masters; blending secular and sacred has certainly played its part in de-throning Jesus in the hearts and minds of men.

[Paleolutheran]

I don't understand these people. If the audience is sovereign, where is the role of the law for condemning sin and leading people to repentance, without which faith is not possible? I don't think Jesus took a poll before He let loose on His audience!

[waltherchemnitz]

*sarcasm* you didn't see that part where Jesus sent out people with clipboards to find out what their felt needs were, and found out that the pharisees desired to be drubbed over the head with such greats as "brood of vipers" and "Whitewashed Sepulchers"?

[Paleolutheran]

I know I'd like to be called those things :-)

[waltherchemnitz]

In other words, you'd rather hear the truth?

But wait, isn't the truth always true, no matter how you arrange the furniture? And if that's so, then doesn't the truth eventually influence how you arrange the furniture?

[macpduff]

Christian Tradition, The Creeds, Insights handed down, and now the present attack on Paul's credentials.

Our faith is not an onion to be peeled away - and the "real" faith found in the center.

Rather, Christianity is the whole - a heritage handed down. Every layer and doctrine discarded leaves us poorer and farther from God's Truth. God has not left His children orphans. We can have faith in what He has preserved for us. Too much 'learning and never coming to a knowledge of the Truth.

[waltherchemnitz]

So in other words, it's just that you wanted to used the Catechism in general?  I don't see how a Lutheran Congregation that blows off the catechism can call themselves Lutheran.

[waltherchemnitz]

Was it because it was the 1935 copy? Or was it because you were going to use the Catechism at all? Either answer wouldn't surprise me.

I've seen some of the Curriculum they try to pass off as Confirmation studies. It's either laden with evangelical pablum, or literalistic nonsense.

[waltherchemnitz]

Pastor Gary Held, who cohosts Radical Grace Radio with me, grew up and was confirmed in an ALC church. Where do you hail from?

[waltherchemnitz]

Mostly4moderate, keep in mind that this video is for someone who is literally latching onto the latest repristination fad, driven by people who identify themselves as Emmergent. It's incredulity that you see on my face, not condescension.

I'll tell you the truth here. If you're looking for a home in the LCMS, you'll find yourself a bit disappointed. We have our own problems. However, if you're looking to find a Lutheran Identity again, there's no better place than the LCMS.

[waltherchemnitz]

This might sound condescending... but the only way to have a true Lutheran Identity is to hold to the confessions. They serve as sandbags around the scriptures, so that when the liberals try their nonsense they have to deal with the confessions first.

[kiwipoppins]

Right on Matt... finding the biggest and bestest fad of the year..making the Gospel more 'up to date' and socially and politically acceptable... not to mention making the biggest and bestest bank balance for those that think up these fads.

The Bible and the Gospel as the Lord gave it to us IS ENOUGH, it cant be modernised and improved on it already is perfect... HE is the Living WORD.

[AsheIsTheRaven]

The problem with pulling your self down to the audience is that the message is eventually made irrelevant

[waltherchemnitz]

Hoping Ashe doesn't take this the wrong way... See, here is someone who isn't even a Christian and gets it.

[AsheIsTheRaven]

I actually took in a very flattering way, thanks :)

[waltherchemnitz]

Darn it, I missed this comment... You are quite welcome. Uh oh, I guess this means I'm not Christian enough because I compliment unbelievers. I'm in Big Trouble now!

[VioletKitty411]

Well spoken, thanks...we need to get back to the basics. The Bible...the WHOLE Bible. Programs are okay to get them in the door, I suppose, but once they are in we can't preach pleasant Christianity.

[waltherchemnitz]

Pre-moderne... Hmmm... I'm guessing you've also sensed the slow drip of post modernity in what's going on in the church these days as well?

Look at Yokeup's way of doing things... He's bought into a fad as well. I happen to agree that we need to jettison this Emergent malarkey and get back to what was the faith and practice of the reformation.

I also like your "Me-and-my-Bible house church" phrase... I'll have to remember that.