"i derive [natural rights] from... evolved natural law... we have an evolved nature... we are a social primate species... the tension is between indiv. liberty and respect for the natural order of things." so natural rights come from natural law, which comes from evolution? does naturalness confer moral rightness? isn't this an is-ought problem inside a naturalistic fallacy? shermer is great, but isn't he being a little overzealous with the evolutionary psyc?
Yes, the internet will expose religious Faith for the dangerous psychosis it is & eventually will turn churches into museums & cities like the vatican, Jerusalem, Meca et al as deprogrammer world center to address this Brain Virus that makes people stupid, intolerant, zombies that must kneel & offer blood sacrifice to gain a salvation, when in FACT is ti their sick brains that need to be saved for the ZombieGodPsychosis
One smart guy and two idiots discuss the obvious. After the smart guy says something smart, the two idiots take over the conversation, trying to convert the smart guy's comments into their idiocy.
If these are unalienable natural rights, why do people in the middle east have no freedom of speech? Of course government can take your rights away, what an idiot.
George Carlin said you have no fucking rights, just temporary privileged.
a person has a natural right to anything that can not be taken away by someone else. Anything else is not a "right" , its a gift from someone else who says you may have it for now.
Is there a meaningful, practical difference between having a right denied and just not having that right? Or between having a non-existent right granted and having a true right granted?
I understand how on it’s face it could appear that way. It’s a common misunderstanding of history. The institution referred to as "slavery" in the Old Testament is indentured servant hood. In addition, it was almost never for life. Typically it was 10-15 years. Also the individuals were paid and lived about the same economic level as other working people. So, the African slave trade and the forms of "slavery" you hear about in the Bible are quite different. A little study will clear this up.
@dougemills1 “ If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. Exodus 21:6-8
‘ If a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave’s service.Leviticus 25:38-40
You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.
@gamesbok Ex 21:6-8 comments-Men can go free at the end of their service if they wish. Their obligation has ended. They may find work elsewhere, if they wish. This, however, is not so easy for a woman. So, we see extra protection for female employees. The master could not simply let a woman employee go. Unlike a male employee, she could have difficulty finding any means to earn money for food. She could starve or may have to result to prostitution just to survive.
@gamesbok Lev 25:38-40 comments-is more about position, but still shows how “slave” is more clearly understood as a paid servant or employee. A fellow countryman is simply protected from having one of the more difficult jobs. If he gets in trouble financially, the master can pay his debt and have him work to pay him back. However, the master must give him a higher paying job instead of a minimum wage job simply because he is a fellow countryman.
@gamesbok Lev 25:45-47shows how the transfer of a business from a father to his sons carries more responsibility than simply getting the business and profit. The employees were to be considered a permanent fixture of the business or tenured, if you will. Of course, any of these employees could purchase their freedom with their income or be purchased by someone else.
if morality was given to us by the god of the bible then we should be killing our children if they stray from the faith, putting adulterers to death along with anyone who works on sunday, woman should always be beneath the man and we all should be owning slaves.
I love the fact that the moron at the beginning goes on this long waxed speech about how rights are given by a creator w/o evidence of that creator or any explanation why those rights ALWAYS have to be fought/negotiated for between and by humans. Humans do all the work earning something that he so readily offers to his imaginary friend. Abrahamic religionss are by definition anti-freedom. It's about servitude, patriarchy, violence, exclusion and suppression.
It went smoothly because Shermer was interested in it going smoothly. He was really the one in control of the interview. Napolitano would have been happy with a big fight, and Fr. Sirico was just interested in his own opinion.
The problem with this whole argument is that "government" is discussed like it's a hostile outside entity, like Satan. The "government" is a group of people just like any group. It can act in both benevolent and malevolent ways. It can become corrupt and oppressive. But that doesn't mean government is INHERENTLY bad. BAD government is bad, just as BAD corporations are bad, & BAD organizations are bad. Smaller government isn't ALWAYS better. Sometimes better gov't is just BETTER government.
@ZachRose88 Great thinking by Michael Shermer. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens
natural rights emerge in a social context from the fact that no one is born with an inherent right over other people, we are all equal in our lack of rights over another.
Rights don't exist in nature. Neither does justice. No rights or laws prevent the Cheetah from chasing the Gazelle. Humans only have rights and freedoms because we decided they were good things to strive for. Who wouldn't want to sleep soundly in the belief that they were protected from the cruelty of their fellow man? But these rights are often illusory and exist only when we're collectively capable of defending them. They are temporary, since they vanish the moment they are defiled.
The ape is a social creature and so it evolved certain behaviors that are supposed to benefit the group. Since man is an evolved ape those social beneficial qualities have also evolved, that is how we got the declaration and constitution. They are not given to us by a creator but have evolved through our more and more complex society.Morality isn't a religious concept it is a reflection of a desirable existence within a community.How successful can a social being be if rape, theft, murder is ok?
@InGUNable He rocks, yeah. He created teh perfect place, garden of Eden, then stuck a tree in the middle, bit of entrappment, brilliant, a talking snake, which he made, planned to then take it all away and greated a hell so that the entrapped smuks decendents couuld be punished for something done before they were born.Then he greated insest, then wiped out nearly every human, man women and child, then pushed for multiple religions, and tricked everyone into thinking he was a loving god.
Oh come on. If the moral comes from the bible, why is it that they choose to follow ONLY the parts that the people who not believe in god would also agree are good moral standards?
Um...When the governemment "gives" tax dollars to who ever, it is often with the express consent of the people who voted for and continue to vote for the elected officials, or for various programs. My whole problem with all these people is that they seemt to think that gov'ment operates in a vaccuum. Clearly this isn't the case.
And by the way first constitution that listed human rights was wrote in 4th century BC in Ancient Greece. Thank Zeus for our concept of rights and law.
All religious "holy books" were written by men - there is no proof otherwise. So these so-called religious "laws" are man-made, and not made by some supernatural ghost. Except those who benefit from these "laws" can invoke them with a self-appointed authority. A big house of cards that any logical person can knock down.
Traditional catholic moral teachings and free market economics in the same sentence; that's a paradox. The only thing I can see them having in common is being the biggest thieves of us all.
why do we pander to the religious like this, its supposed to be an intellectual conversation, then he says theres a higher power above. jesus phukin christ.
the only thing the priest should be bitching about is the church being in bed with the banks.. jesus had it right.. the church sold out the population to the banks to hold on to its own power and control. and this idiot from fox says hes a libertarian.. yea in the sense that he and his neocon cronies just want to liberate us from our money and any other money they can get their miserable hands on
Isn't one of those already horrible enough? Besides Jesus is actually fiercely anti-capitalistic. I might not believe the guy was magical (or that any such thing as supernatural things exist.) But that's something I CAN agree on.
Capitalism is evil, it's a thoroughly corrupt tool by which the rich screw over everyone else and artificially keep the third world poor. and alot of idiots bought into the idea that it's somehow a part of 'freedom' which is bullshit.
Capitalism... it's very simple. If you're NOT rich and you're for it, you're voting against your own damn interest, because your a moron who doesn't know any better and bought into the lies of the rich and the media they own.
If you're rich and you're capitalist, you're evil and you deserve to die horribly.
@TheSkunkCat Socialism without moderation turns into communism. A free market without moderation turns into capitalism.
What you want is a system where both political ideas are merged. A free market, with a healthy human layer of socialism on top of it, where the rights and well-being of the individual is put before the corporations AND the government. I believe that western europe is the only part in the world that is succeeding in this.
Man is a social animal that hunted in groups, say if one of the group went around killing people, this would have a detrimental effect on the whole group as they would become less efficient at surviving and that person would be exiled/killed. I believe these methods of survival quickly evolved into basic rules and then into basic laws where more and more where added over time (murder,rape,theft) as they also have a detrimental effect on the 'group'. God is not needed to explain this.
@imENGLISH1 Do you feel nothing more than an animal living in a group? don't you recognize any special dignity to human species? the only reason you would avoid murder, theft...is to keep the social group ordered?
@littlemary86 The way you put it is very basic as I was talking about when these rules first evolved in the absance of a god. However yes, I do think we are just animals, highly evolved but animals non the less and we shouldn't think of ourselves as so special in this world we can't just die but must live on in some kind of afterworld. To your second question, to some degree yes and I would rather live that good life through true choice, not because I am only afraid of the vengeance of a god.
@imENGLISH1 God's commandments are not merely rules to keep the society ordered - you say some of them existed before Moses got the tablets...right - they are firstly meant to discern between good and evil according to God's revelation. So if human beings are nothing more than evolved animals how do you explain our spirituality, why do we wonder about the meaning of life, death, sorrow...that can't be just the product of a more evolved brain. Well, living our life according to God's rules
@imENGLISH1 just because we are afraid to be punished otherwise is an immature way to live religion in my view. God is not vindictive - even if you find this word in the OT - he's just, if he condemns someone it's because of Justice, not vengeance.
@littlemary86 OK i will rephrase my statement from 'only afraid of the vengeance of a god' which still applies to a lot of religions past and present to 'only afraid of some kind of damnation'. I live a good life because I want to, I don't believe in any God.
@imENGLISH1 It was pretty clear to me you don't believe in any God...well..even if as i told you before i think obeying to God just to avoid hell is not a great way to live spirituality it can bring people to choose good anyway. I'm a catholic and i've always been surprised to see how the greatest saints of history were afraid to be damned while unrepentant sinners laugh at it
@littlemary86 you just proved my point there, The greatest saints were afraid to be damned, I would say with out the ball and chain of religion they would of lead much more normal lives
@imENGLISH1 Uhm no...this vison is too simplistic to me. Saints were afraid of hell because since they were enlightened by God' grace in a much deeper way they could see very clear in human soul, they knew how awful sin is and what demage it causes: the separation from God is the greatest of all. I'm sure no saint would accept to live a normal life if this implies compromise with sin
@littlemary86 ok I cant be bothered any more. hearing the word god too many times a day makes me queezy so im going out to probably get high and work on my path to hell. Have a nice god abiding life love.
@imENGLISH1 It's not a very smart move to work on the path to hell : ) By the way, we decide to go to hell with our free will which means we want to stay away from God for eternity. I don't think you wish that
@littlemary86 the saints wernt afraid of hell, because they were enlightened, they stood up rightously, against, opressors, from famines, disasters,, even dictators, muderous regeims, and ideologies. and even standing up to the church so many make the mistake of believing that the church is god.. it isnt. its supposed to be the bride of christ but it defaulted for its own glory, despite its claims to the contrary, and they deliberatly try to keep the populace in the dark. no questioning or burn
@littlemary86 sorry the greatest saints were thought of as heritics and sinners in their time.. and were martyred, and by their religous contemperaries.. most wernt considered saints till much later.. well not by the church anyway
@imENGLISH1 Just curious: you said you recongnize to human beings some special dignity...where does it come from since in your view we're just animals? why does the murder of a man for exemple deserve to be punished with several years of jail while you are free to kill a cow or a pig?
@littlemary86 I don't recognize any special dignity in humans, but realize these are my views in a sea of billions. I believe in evolved nature, killing a cow or a pig is food just like a lion would kill its prey, however if a lion in a pride starting killing its own, it would quickly be exiled or killed by the rest of the group just like in the case of men. This is the point I was trying to make in my first comment, just that no god is not needed in my opinion to explain natural law.
@littlemary86 sorry I see now my first response was confusing I meant 'to your third question' not 'to your second question', I don't believe in special dignity to human species except those we create ourselves
@imENGLISH1 What would you say if I asked about the motives of (I hate to bring him up) Hitler. His action could not have had a positive effect on the collective.
Dont tell me that we are this way the same way birds can fly.The fact Humans are a social primate, the idea that we care for people within groups and not for other groups as an evolved paradime is atrocious.People are good to one another because of doing good out of self estheem and have a hard time with others.Or we are caring for the ones on our side but are affraid of the others which is simply ignorance and stupidity.Or we simply also worry about them if they will be dangerous to our group.
Lol, people talking on the American Mainstream media about rights, what a crock. If you want to hear about your precious fucking rights, go google "Japanese-Americans 1942"
I listened to Shermer on coast to coast and wasn't impressed at all. He devoted all sorts of time to exposing those so called psychics that do cold readings, but avoided the discussion of electronic voice phenomena. That's because there is too much overwhelming evidence to support the fact that its paranormal.
Morality and civil law, aka Natural Law, is the thread that runs through the tapestry of civil society; on the other hand, the Laws of Nature trumps the powers of mortals in government. All life is dependent on the Laws of Nature which includes Jefferson’s Rights. Many confuse these Rights are part of Natural Law, giving the illusion these Rights are man made and therefore, can be manipulated. These Rights were here before humans! See my channel for the proof.
@ChoujiMan LOL what??? Abiding strictly to many religions is against libertarianism, but if one follows a religion to the point that it doesn't violate the rights of others, that's libertarian. And Lao Tzu is considered one of the world's first libertarians, and Taoism (which one could consider a religion) is relatively in line with libertarian.
Seriously, fuck libertarian purists like you. Libertarianism isn't against any form of authority. What do you think a BOSS is?
Jesus also said those who go against and teach not to follow the Old Testament Law is viewed as less in Heaven(Matthew 5:17-19), those Laws are far from "moral" standards of today. Christians seem to miss that one.
@HybridD91 I wouldn't really call it a "versus" because they didn't really disagree on much except for the origins of morality but other than that, they pretty much agreed on a lot.
Another "intellectual" gets the Robin Hood myth wrong! Robin Hood DID NOT take money from the rich and give it to the poor. Rather, he took money BACK from the rich, that they had previously stolen from the poor, and returned it to the poor. For some reason, everyone seems to get this wrong, why is this?
I don't need to feel that I have a magic thing called a "right" in order to oppose undue governmental action. The point is that I won't accept certain actions, against myself or others. That's all I need, and it helps that other people agree with me.
it wasn't really a debate, one person says we have rights because of god one person says we have rights because of evolution. I don't know what kind of stupid point fox was going after here but it failed imo.
What I find interesting is how they twist an idea born out of deism into something be that of the Judeo-Christian paradigm; the god of the deists is closer to that of the god of the pantheists - God being the metaphysical embodiment of 'nature' rather than being an entity that most Christians are familiar with.
What the fuck does "natural law" even mean? It seems like a loaded term. These christian nutfucks really can't get a point across about laws/government without using bullshit nonsense rhetoric.
the problem is that all those guys use completely different definitions of "natural larws". For catholic priest it is "god given laws", for Shermer it is laws evolved in social interactions of human species.
See, this is a civil discussion between an athiest/skeptic and a theist. They acknowledge where they will fundamentally disagree, and move the hell on. Bravo.
Fucking nutjob libertarian fuckwads. Selfish assholes. Yes, lets just let the wealthy horde all the money, and let the poor suffer to death. Assholes. When someone is so poor that they can't eat, they have no freedom. The rich just want slaves. Fucking libertarian nutjobs.
Look at the differences in standard of living in China 20 years ago and now.
Difference- capitalism.
Also look at Estonia and their evil flat tax:
"Estonia has been fast catching up with the EU-15, having grown GDP per capita from 34.8% of the EU-15 average in 1996 to 65% in 2007, similar to Central Europe"
Almost 2x in 10 years.
Then ignore reality and go watch MSNBC :P and dance in joy that tax cuts for the evil(aka rich) will expire.
@Voy2378 Nice usage of the strawman argument. You do realise that the USA use to have a lot higher taxes than they have now. In the 70's and 80's most of the richest people were paying in the 70% to 80%. Now they are crying like little babies about 35% going up to like what 40%? We pay some of the lowest taxes in the world.
Flat Tax can work if done right, but it is evil since the rich aren't paying by far enough. The wealthy got their tax cuts and new jobs never came. Good going.
@Mglosk Lets take a look at Finland, they have pure socialism like sweden and both countries are happier and doing much better than we are. Socialised medicine for example does really well in those contres but in countries in which the wealthy are a bit more powerful, the wealthy put a negative spin on it, and refuse to let anyone know the truth about how soclised medicine works.
I don't buy into the nonsense of the libertarian, republican, rich powers.
Sweden used to be #1 in world in GDP per capita(you know when they had free market, not socialism). Now they are like #16.
Socialized medicine aka theft doesn't work well in Sweden or Canada. Rationing and nice stuff like that. HC is expensive in US because of the government involvement, not because of the evil free market.
They had currency crisis in '92....
So if you want to learn more please read : mises , org/daily/2259
@Voy2378@Voy2378 Health Care should not be a business. Taking advantage of people when their most dire of need and sucking up all of their finances like a leech is nothing to be proud of at the end of the quater.
if you want to be a doctor for free nobody is stopping you. What you are forgetting is that (in capitalism) when greedy people act in their self interest they are forced to produce something(or give service) that will benefit the others. So greed is constant, and the capitalism is the only system where greedy people benefit the others.
@Voy2378 Well that's not what i said at all but w/e. Single Payer or Universal Health Care is the only solution and it works extremely well where its been enacted. A doctor can easily afford a million dollar home in most european countries where it's performed.
Capitalism encourages selfishness and idea that nothing else matters but the bottom line and the profit margin. It's deadly to our survival and that makes it a poisonous ideology.
@Voy2378 You do realize we already have socialized medicine and have had socialized medicine for years? Anyone can walk into any hospital and demand and receive treatment. If they can't afford to pay for it it gets defaulted on and in the end YOU and everyone else ends up having to pay for it in taxes, hospitals are going under because of this. Why not cut the pretense and actually make it work better?
@Voy2378 What we have doesn't work. People avoid seeing the doctor until they're either much worse or hospitalized due to collapsing. Because it will cost them all their money they avoid care, so a LOT of money will be saved with preventative care. Even health insurance companies are hesitant to pay for preventative care.
What we have is more broken than single payer system, I rather have something that functions over something that doesn't.
Oh give me a break... people are to stupid to take care of themselves. Few, but not the majority. And money WILL NOT be saved. I mean it's like arguing with a creationists- every bit of information tells that socialized medicine doesn't work, but some refuse to believe that soulless capitalism works, just because socialized medicine sounds better.
@Voy2378 Because socialised medicine works in almost every country it's in. That's the facts, get a clue first then post, clue first, then post. I can back this up. I am looking at the figures right now. You are just a libertarian tool.
@Voy2378 I flat out can't afford to see a doctor. If I get injured I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY FOR IT.
You are talking about something that directly affects me and failing to understand my side of the argument. I'm listening to you but if you don't listen to me this isnt' a dialog its you throwing comments at me while mine bounce off.
You say its like talking to a creationist but at least a creationist usually responds to my points beyond 'people are too stupid to take care of themselves'
@Voy2378 Also the guy you linked is a bloody fool, an idiot, has tons of misinformation. I rather get my facts from people who have degrees in the fields that apply to what I'm trying to learn about... not some dude off the street.
he may be a fool, but tell me what is actually a misinformation? He went to mirror universe Canada? And for not being able to afford a doctor-maybe you should ask yourself why you can't afford it-
"The government is good at one thing...it knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say 'see if it weren't for the government you wouldn't be able to walk".
Degrees... sorry to tell you, but a lot of people with degrees have certain political positions that interferes with their judgment or at least with what they say.Again are facts in his or Stossel's video wrong(that the only sector of the HC with falling prices is plastic surgery aka the capitalistic part of the HC)?No.There is nothing that government does better than the private sector,and the HC isn't an exception.
@Voy2378 That's why you never listen to one person. You get a variety of views and opinions. If enough people with similar levels of experience and education say the same thing... changes are that thing is the right thing. If you limit your sources of information and only listen to the people you already agree with... then you're not getting facts, you're getting your own personal bias reinforced.
@Voy2378 I need to grow up? You tell me that I'm wrong in saying that I "LIE" and that I need to do some research but you won't give me a reference in you discontent with my statement nor will you give any general information discrediting my statement. You acted a little foolish in that last post my friend.
I'd rather have a reasonable conversation than an arguement that i could just have with my little sister.
You LIE had an :P. It was a joke. You know- Obama speech.
And for the arguments- like I said look up the Stossel's videos. He once was a liberal but found the light of truth. I hope that you will do the same. :P
@Voy2378 Definatly, I'd rather make the weathy pay than to have poor people suffer. Unlike you I have morals. You call it stealing, I call the wealthy stealing from the blood of the poor. The poor are suffering and all they can care about is their money. So sorry if I could care less for the wealthy. They put us into this situation because of their hording of money and keeping the money out of the general public where it belongs. Give people jobs and higher pay and the economy will improve.
1. Poor people(that are actually created by the socialist policies- you know like in that Detroit video that you ignore-fuck1ng $11 000 per student per year) suffer more in you socialist heaven than in free society. Sure if you now need a $ 100 000 surgery that will save your life and you don't have the money it would be great to have socialism. But in the long run socialism will hurt more people than it helps in the short run(it's like eating a cow that produces milk).
"i derive [natural rights] from... evolved natural law... we have an evolved nature... we are a social primate species... the tension is between indiv. liberty and respect for the natural order of things." so natural rights come from natural law, which comes from evolution? does naturalness confer moral rightness? isn't this an is-ought problem inside a naturalistic fallacy? shermer is great, but isn't he being a little overzealous with the evolutionary psyc?
blcassatt1 2 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Yes, the internet will expose religious Faith for the dangerous psychosis it is & eventually will turn churches into museums & cities like the vatican, Jerusalem, Meca et al as deprogrammer world center to address this Brain Virus that makes people stupid, intolerant, zombies that must kneel & offer blood sacrifice to gain a salvation, when in FACT is ti their sick brains that need to be saved for the ZombieGodPsychosis
flexbrat 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
One smart guy and two idiots discuss the obvious. After the smart guy says something smart, the two idiots take over the conversation, trying to convert the smart guy's comments into their idiocy.
pastafarianprophet 1 month ago
Comment removed
pastafarianprophet 1 month ago
Comment removed
pastafarianprophet 1 month ago
Father Barney Frank.
thetwentyteens 1 month ago
I love the judge, but how can anyone say "Catholic Morality" without bursting out laughing...
johnycannuk 1 month ago
If these are unalienable natural rights, why do people in the middle east have no freedom of speech? Of course government can take your rights away, what an idiot.
George Carlin said you have no fucking rights, just temporary privileged.
axblake1 2 months ago
a person has a natural right to anything that can not be taken away by someone else. Anything else is not a "right" , its a gift from someone else who says you may have it for now.
SqueakerAlpha 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
George Carlin can tell you all about rights.
buttface112211 3 months ago
Is there a meaningful, practical difference between having a right denied and just not having that right? Or between having a non-existent right granted and having a true right granted?
lifeofbob 3 months ago
I dissagree. He's the best host I've ever seen.
desasterz 3 months ago
Some Republicans think taxes equal stealing....
spinolex 3 months ago
If there's one thing Judge Neopolitan knows, it's his money!
Tsnore 3 months ago
the bible endorses slavery in many passages!
America was not founded on Christianity
watch?v=zP-lnvTLBro
deshaebeasley 3 months ago
I understand how on it’s face it could appear that way. It’s a common misunderstanding of history. The institution referred to as "slavery" in the Old Testament is indentured servant hood. In addition, it was almost never for life. Typically it was 10-15 years. Also the individuals were paid and lived about the same economic level as other working people. So, the African slave trade and the forms of "slavery" you hear about in the Bible are quite different. A little study will clear this up.
dougemills1 3 months ago
@dougemills1 “ If a man sells his daughter as a female slave, she is not to go free as the male slaves do. Exodus 21:6-8
‘ If a countryman of yours becomes so poor with regard to you that he sells himself to you, you shall not subject him to a slave’s service.Leviticus 25:38-40
You may even bequeath them to your sons after you, to receive as a possession; you can use them as permanent slaves. But sons of Israel, you shall not rule with severity over one another.
Leviticus 25:45-47
Fail
gamesbok 2 months ago
@gamesbok Ex 21:6-8 comments-Men can go free at the end of their service if they wish. Their obligation has ended. They may find work elsewhere, if they wish. This, however, is not so easy for a woman. So, we see extra protection for female employees. The master could not simply let a woman employee go. Unlike a male employee, she could have difficulty finding any means to earn money for food. She could starve or may have to result to prostitution just to survive.
dougemills1 1 month ago
@gamesbok Lev 25:38-40 comments-is more about position, but still shows how “slave” is more clearly understood as a paid servant or employee. A fellow countryman is simply protected from having one of the more difficult jobs. If he gets in trouble financially, the master can pay his debt and have him work to pay him back. However, the master must give him a higher paying job instead of a minimum wage job simply because he is a fellow countryman.
dougemills1 1 month ago
@dougemills1 But L 25, 45:47 talks of permanent slaves.
You're not even reading what's in front of you.
gamesbok 1 month ago
@gamesbok Lev 25:45-47shows how the transfer of a business from a father to his sons carries more responsibility than simply getting the business and profit. The employees were to be considered a permanent fixture of the business or tenured, if you will. Of course, any of these employees could purchase their freedom with their income or be purchased by someone else.
dougemills1 1 month ago
@dougemills1 What it says is that sons of Israel you shall not rule with severity. No, it says nothing about redemption.
gamesbok 1 month ago
The French first thought of this great thing called a contract between the government and the people...
zeldaofarel 3 months ago in playlist More videos from AtheistMediaBlog
/watch?v=kQ7XFvniWWE , you fat hypocrites!!!
grozde 5 months ago
"Dr. Sherman" O_O
RakyunKim 5 months ago
Father Robert Sirico = Uncle Bobby to the kiddies ; )
fdasherv 5 months ago
@fdasherv No, he likes it when the babies call him Big Papa. Uncle Bobby when he's trying to be incognito in an old parish.
mistereveready 3 months ago
if morality was given to us by the god of the bible then we should be killing our children if they stray from the faith, putting adulterers to death along with anyone who works on sunday, woman should always be beneath the man and we all should be owning slaves.
iPriestHolmes 5 months ago 9
I love the fact that the moron at the beginning goes on this long waxed speech about how rights are given by a creator w/o evidence of that creator or any explanation why those rights ALWAYS have to be fought/negotiated for between and by humans. Humans do all the work earning something that he so readily offers to his imaginary friend. Abrahamic religionss are by definition anti-freedom. It's about servitude, patriarchy, violence, exclusion and suppression.
mistereveready 5 months ago
Good grief, the host is an idiot.
stiglistanbul 5 months ago 19
@stiglistanbul which one?
ataryo 2 months ago
It went smoothly because Shermer was interested in it going smoothly. He was really the one in control of the interview. Napolitano would have been happy with a big fight, and Fr. Sirico was just interested in his own opinion.
DreamGranules 5 months ago
As a non-libertarian I have to admit, that was much less frustrating and much more rational than these discussions tend to be.
sulljoh1 5 months ago
The problem with this whole argument is that "government" is discussed like it's a hostile outside entity, like Satan. The "government" is a group of people just like any group. It can act in both benevolent and malevolent ways. It can become corrupt and oppressive. But that doesn't mean government is INHERENTLY bad. BAD government is bad, just as BAD corporations are bad, & BAD organizations are bad. Smaller government isn't ALWAYS better. Sometimes better gov't is just BETTER government.
Phi1618033 6 months ago
Video Title - "Two idiots and Michael Shermer"
ZachRose88 6 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
@ZachRose88 Great thinking by Michael Shermer. For similar great thoughts try Dan Barker, John W. Loftus, Robert M Price, Valerie Tarico, Victor Stenger, Bart Ehrman, Ken Humphreys, Richard Carrier, Ken Pulliam, Keith Parsons, Gary Greenberg, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Mark Twain, Earl Doherty, Israel Finkelstein, Daniel Dennett, C Dennis Mckinsey, Joseph Wheless, Bertrand Russell, Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens
zytigon 6 months ago
natural rights emerge in a social context from the fact that no one is born with an inherent right over other people, we are all equal in our lack of rights over another.
annata12 6 months ago
"Dr. Shermen". He can't even get his name right.
SpellboundSolution 6 months ago
Rights don't exist in nature. Neither does justice. No rights or laws prevent the Cheetah from chasing the Gazelle. Humans only have rights and freedoms because we decided they were good things to strive for. Who wouldn't want to sleep soundly in the belief that they were protected from the cruelty of their fellow man? But these rights are often illusory and exist only when we're collectively capable of defending them. They are temporary, since they vanish the moment they are defiled.
icarus313 7 months ago
I suggest these religious people watch
YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS - George Carlin -
izaccy 7 months ago
That christian just didn't want sotop
OyonTheAdept 7 months ago
The ape is a social creature and so it evolved certain behaviors that are supposed to benefit the group. Since man is an evolved ape those social beneficial qualities have also evolved, that is how we got the declaration and constitution. They are not given to us by a creator but have evolved through our more and more complex society.Morality isn't a religious concept it is a reflection of a desirable existence within a community.How successful can a social being be if rape, theft, murder is ok?
luisdez81 7 months ago
@InGUNable He rocks, yeah. He created teh perfect place, garden of Eden, then stuck a tree in the middle, bit of entrappment, brilliant, a talking snake, which he made, planned to then take it all away and greated a hell so that the entrapped smuks decendents couuld be punished for something done before they were born.Then he greated insest, then wiped out nearly every human, man women and child, then pushed for multiple religions, and tricked everyone into thinking he was a loving god.
gateshead1000 7 months ago
lulz, Shermer, not Shermin, Father.
WowThisWasntTaken 7 months ago
Many Catholics realize you should help the poor.
God gave us the right to worship whatever god we want, when he said in the bible you'll die for not worshiping him?
AmericanNohbuddy 7 months ago
Oh come on. If the moral comes from the bible, why is it that they choose to follow ONLY the parts that the people who not believe in god would also agree are good moral standards?
gulbirk 8 months ago
GOD..i love god...god is my favourite fictional character
InGUNable 8 months ago
if you believe in god then you should believe in free healthcare
fattymcfatfatism 8 months ago
@fattymcfatfatism nothing is free
chadbrochill61 1 month ago
Um...When the governemment "gives" tax dollars to who ever, it is often with the express consent of the people who voted for and continue to vote for the elected officials, or for various programs. My whole problem with all these people is that they seemt to think that gov'ment operates in a vaccuum. Clearly this isn't the case.
Godsmasher22 8 months ago
And by the way first constitution that listed human rights was wrote in 4th century BC in Ancient Greece. Thank Zeus for our concept of rights and law.
broodwarplayer 8 months ago
The Catholic church is not for your rights, just their 'right' to oppose the desired theocracy.
KevZen2000 9 months ago
"created in god's image"
so is god male, female, transgender, black, white, brown, yellow, short, tall, fat, skinny...???...
fucking retards.
myfreepaysite1 9 months ago
if you get your morals from the bible then your living a very immoral life
brianhar100 9 months ago
All religious "holy books" were written by men - there is no proof otherwise. So these so-called religious "laws" are man-made, and not made by some supernatural ghost. Except those who benefit from these "laws" can invoke them with a self-appointed authority. A big house of cards that any logical person can knock down.
imaccuish 9 months ago
WELFARE IS A RIGHT !!!!
quadcatfly 10 months ago
Traditonal catholic teachings and free market economics? he must mean you can kill everyone and make you the top market man.
antares074 10 months ago
Traditional catholic moral teachings and free market economics in the same sentence; that's a paradox. The only thing I can see them having in common is being the biggest thieves of us all.
xr3v4nyz 10 months ago
why do we pander to the religious like this, its supposed to be an intellectual conversation, then he says theres a higher power above. jesus phukin christ.
kram83au 10 months ago
That sherman guy gets owned, looks like an idiot
jimm124 10 months ago
the only thing the priest should be bitching about is the church being in bed with the banks.. jesus had it right.. the church sold out the population to the banks to hold on to its own power and control. and this idiot from fox says hes a libertarian.. yea in the sense that he and his neocon cronies just want to liberate us from our money and any other money they can get their miserable hands on
scorand 10 months ago
Religion AND Libertardianism?
Isn't one of those already horrible enough? Besides Jesus is actually fiercely anti-capitalistic. I might not believe the guy was magical (or that any such thing as supernatural things exist.) But that's something I CAN agree on.
Capitalism is evil, it's a thoroughly corrupt tool by which the rich screw over everyone else and artificially keep the third world poor. and alot of idiots bought into the idea that it's somehow a part of 'freedom' which is bullshit.
TheSkunkCat 11 months ago 2
@TheSkunkCat
Capitalism... it's very simple. If you're NOT rich and you're for it, you're voting against your own damn interest, because your a moron who doesn't know any better and bought into the lies of the rich and the media they own.
If you're rich and you're capitalist, you're evil and you deserve to die horribly.
TheSkunkCat 11 months ago
@TheSkunkCat Socialism without moderation turns into communism. A free market without moderation turns into capitalism.
What you want is a system where both political ideas are merged. A free market, with a healthy human layer of socialism on top of it, where the rights and well-being of the individual is put before the corporations AND the government. I believe that western europe is the only part in the world that is succeeding in this.
ScientificBob 9 months ago
fox commentators=walking dildos
phildirt3 11 months ago
Man is a social animal that hunted in groups, say if one of the group went around killing people, this would have a detrimental effect on the whole group as they would become less efficient at surviving and that person would be exiled/killed. I believe these methods of survival quickly evolved into basic rules and then into basic laws where more and more where added over time (murder,rape,theft) as they also have a detrimental effect on the 'group'. God is not needed to explain this.
imENGLISH1 1 year ago 47
@imENGLISH1 Do you feel nothing more than an animal living in a group? don't you recognize any special dignity to human species? the only reason you would avoid murder, theft...is to keep the social group ordered?
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 The way you put it is very basic as I was talking about when these rules first evolved in the absance of a god. However yes, I do think we are just animals, highly evolved but animals non the less and we shouldn't think of ourselves as so special in this world we can't just die but must live on in some kind of afterworld. To your second question, to some degree yes and I would rather live that good life through true choice, not because I am only afraid of the vengeance of a god.
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@imENGLISH1 God's commandments are not merely rules to keep the society ordered - you say some of them existed before Moses got the tablets...right - they are firstly meant to discern between good and evil according to God's revelation. So if human beings are nothing more than evolved animals how do you explain our spirituality, why do we wonder about the meaning of life, death, sorrow...that can't be just the product of a more evolved brain. Well, living our life according to God's rules
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 You say it cant be the product, I say it is just that. also, lets not confuse religion with spirituality
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@imENGLISH1 just because we are afraid to be punished otherwise is an immature way to live religion in my view. God is not vindictive - even if you find this word in the OT - he's just, if he condemns someone it's because of Justice, not vengeance.
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 OK i will rephrase my statement from 'only afraid of the vengeance of a god' which still applies to a lot of religions past and present to 'only afraid of some kind of damnation'. I live a good life because I want to, I don't believe in any God.
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@imENGLISH1 It was pretty clear to me you don't believe in any God...well..even if as i told you before i think obeying to God just to avoid hell is not a great way to live spirituality it can bring people to choose good anyway. I'm a catholic and i've always been surprised to see how the greatest saints of history were afraid to be damned while unrepentant sinners laugh at it
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 you just proved my point there, The greatest saints were afraid to be damned, I would say with out the ball and chain of religion they would of lead much more normal lives
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@imENGLISH1 Uhm no...this vison is too simplistic to me. Saints were afraid of hell because since they were enlightened by God' grace in a much deeper way they could see very clear in human soul, they knew how awful sin is and what demage it causes: the separation from God is the greatest of all. I'm sure no saint would accept to live a normal life if this implies compromise with sin
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 ok I cant be bothered any more. hearing the word god too many times a day makes me queezy so im going out to probably get high and work on my path to hell. Have a nice god abiding life love.
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@imENGLISH1 It's not a very smart move to work on the path to hell : ) By the way, we decide to go to hell with our free will which means we want to stay away from God for eternity. I don't think you wish that
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 the saints wernt afraid of hell, because they were enlightened, they stood up rightously, against, opressors, from famines, disasters,, even dictators, muderous regeims, and ideologies. and even standing up to the church so many make the mistake of believing that the church is god.. it isnt. its supposed to be the bride of christ but it defaulted for its own glory, despite its claims to the contrary, and they deliberatly try to keep the populace in the dark. no questioning or burn
scorand 10 months ago
@littlemary86 sorry the greatest saints were thought of as heritics and sinners in their time.. and were martyred, and by their religous contemperaries.. most wernt considered saints till much later.. well not by the church anyway
scorand 10 months ago
@imENGLISH1 Just curious: you said you recongnize to human beings some special dignity...where does it come from since in your view we're just animals? why does the murder of a man for exemple deserve to be punished with several years of jail while you are free to kill a cow or a pig?
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 I don't recognize any special dignity in humans, but realize these are my views in a sea of billions. I believe in evolved nature, killing a cow or a pig is food just like a lion would kill its prey, however if a lion in a pride starting killing its own, it would quickly be exiled or killed by the rest of the group just like in the case of men. This is the point I was trying to make in my first comment, just that no god is not needed in my opinion to explain natural law.
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@imENGLISH1 So, you really think that punishing a murder, a child abuse, a rape...is just a measure to avoid social disorder??
littlemary86 11 months ago
@littlemary86 Yes exactly, of course human emotions have there part to play aswell
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@littlemary86 sorry I see now my first response was confusing I meant 'to your third question' not 'to your second question', I don't believe in special dignity to human species except those we create ourselves
imENGLISH1 11 months ago
@imENGLISH1 What would you say if I asked about the motives of (I hate to bring him up) Hitler. His action could not have had a positive effect on the collective.
TheRationalRant 6 months ago
@imENGLISH1 beautiful !! ...
chinamanspeakenlis 6 months ago
@imENGLISH1
You're spot on. It boggles the mind how so many people can't see/understand this very simple theory.
GrooveyTuesday 2 months ago
Dont tell me that we are this way the same way birds can fly.The fact Humans are a social primate, the idea that we care for people within groups and not for other groups as an evolved paradime is atrocious.People are good to one another because of doing good out of self estheem and have a hard time with others.Or we are caring for the ones on our side but are affraid of the others which is simply ignorance and stupidity.Or we simply also worry about them if they will be dangerous to our group.
desasterz 2 months ago in playlist Favorite videos
Lol, people talking on the American Mainstream media about rights, what a crock. If you want to hear about your precious fucking rights, go google "Japanese-Americans 1942"
fakeham 1 year ago
Christian Libertarian is like saying muslim feminist. The two justsimply contradict each other.
elmusulman1431 1 year ago
I listened to Shermer on coast to coast and wasn't impressed at all. He devoted all sorts of time to exposing those so called psychics that do cold readings, but avoided the discussion of electronic voice phenomena. That's because there is too much overwhelming evidence to support the fact that its paranormal.
astrolifter 1 year ago
ughhh that interviewer is an idiot
Freethinker12341 1 year ago 2
Drivel drivel . I was done after 37 seconds.
asonjdj 1 year ago
great respect for Mr Shermer. you have to be in their shoes and be respectable to let the religious know how we skeptic really think,
jojoinhere 1 year ago
ln
beefcurtains67 1 year ago
Haha God created humans equally... That's why he promoted slavery...
I get it now..
LanteanKnight 1 year ago 2
Morality and civil law, aka Natural Law, is the thread that runs through the tapestry of civil society; on the other hand, the Laws of Nature trumps the powers of mortals in government. All life is dependent on the Laws of Nature which includes Jefferson’s Rights. Many confuse these Rights are part of Natural Law, giving the illusion these Rights are man made and therefore, can be manipulated. These Rights were here before humans! See my channel for the proof.
Mike10four 1 year ago
free market economics with catholic teaching? WTF!!!
pureperil 1 year ago
you have the choice to get the fuck out of our progressive country.
LuminousTruth 1 year ago
When he says that humans are created in the likeness of god I have to wonder why I am not an invisible spaceman
climber456 1 year ago 6
Idiotic judge
alucardthealchemist 1 year ago
i want to fake butt fuck the judge and watch him freak out like ron paul did with sacha baron cohen
tophernates 1 year ago
Rights come from those who say they want them and fight for them. Liberty is taken, not granted.
canaanav 1 year ago 3
Religion isn't compatible with libertarianism. It's an authoritative chain.
ChoujiMan 1 year ago 45
@ChoujiMan LOL what??? Abiding strictly to many religions is against libertarianism, but if one follows a religion to the point that it doesn't violate the rights of others, that's libertarian. And Lao Tzu is considered one of the world's first libertarians, and Taoism (which one could consider a religion) is relatively in line with libertarian.
Seriously, fuck libertarian purists like you. Libertarianism isn't against any form of authority. What do you think a BOSS is?
AshillaBeige 8 months ago
@AshillaBeige I'm not a libertarian.
ChoujiMan 8 months ago
Jesus also said those who go against and teach not to follow the Old Testament Law is viewed as less in Heaven(Matthew 5:17-19), those Laws are far from "moral" standards of today. Christians seem to miss that one.
HybridD91 1 year ago
@HybridD91 I wouldn't really call it a "versus" because they didn't really disagree on much except for the origins of morality but other than that, they pretty much agreed on a lot.
HybridD91 1 year ago
Another "intellectual" gets the Robin Hood myth wrong! Robin Hood DID NOT take money from the rich and give it to the poor. Rather, he took money BACK from the rich, that they had previously stolen from the poor, and returned it to the poor. For some reason, everyone seems to get this wrong, why is this?
Rednecks4Palin 1 year ago 4
@Rednecks4Palin Wrong again, Robin Hood took money from the STATE which had tyrannically stolen it from the people, and returned it to them.
Floridanon407 1 year ago
There are no such things as rights, only principles. Voluntarism/Libertarianism is following the structure of the Non-Aggression Principle.
qwertypoiu4321 1 year ago
God is a dictator.
aquafishsoup 1 year ago
@aquafishsoup Is your God a libertarian?
RunLiberty 1 year ago
@RunLiberty god is a murderer.
aquafishsoup 1 year ago
Oh, how refreshing. A fox news host that lets Shermer speak without constantly interrupting him.
pjlehtim 1 year ago 4
@pjlehtim Napolitano is pretty cool, he and Stossel are the only 2 Fox hosts I can stand anymore.
Floridanon407 1 year ago 2
Wtf? Did Michael Shermer just endorsed the Tea Party movement?
SrRulao 1 year ago 3
I don't need to feel that I have a magic thing called a "right" in order to oppose undue governmental action. The point is that I won't accept certain actions, against myself or others. That's all I need, and it helps that other people agree with me.
MishaVargas 1 year ago 2
@MishaVargas Nicely said!
FerreThoughts 1 year ago
@FerreThoughts Oh, thanks. Um...you are strong and fast in the water!
MishaVargas 1 year ago
CHRISTIANS BELIEVE THEY INHERIT EVERYTHING FROM THE SKY DADDY, EVEN SHIT
god1sIgnorance 1 year ago
it wasn't really a debate, one person says we have rights because of god one person says we have rights because of evolution. I don't know what kind of stupid point fox was going after here but it failed imo.
captain3xtreme 1 year ago
Yup god enforces those rights alright.
Tell it those skinless babies
UrsoDaCortesia 1 year ago
Look at the freedom watch caption at 6:17. U.S. faced atheist foreign power in last century and jihad today. lol
kyoung700 1 year ago
Shermer does not seem to understand what "natural law" means in this context.
evangelical1 1 year ago
WOW what a retarded biased idiot the host is. How can believers actually listen to him and not hear the bullshit falling from his maw?
Otokogoroshi 1 year ago
That newscaster reminds me of some mafia boss from the 1950's
neil73 1 year ago
What I find interesting is how they twist an idea born out of deism into something be that of the Judeo-Christian paradigm; the god of the deists is closer to that of the god of the pantheists - God being the metaphysical embodiment of 'nature' rather than being an entity that most Christians are familiar with.
kawaiigardiner 1 year ago
@kawaiigardiner The understanding of observable nature reflecting God's nature is not at all alien to Christianity. That was Aquinas's view of God.
oppermann1000 1 year ago
What the fuck does "natural law" even mean? It seems like a loaded term. These christian nutfucks really can't get a point across about laws/government without using bullshit nonsense rhetoric.
CosmicSeaman 1 year ago
@CosmicSeaman It means exactly the same as "Creation" in a word, Nothing.
Draugo 1 year ago
I know it's unbearable to some, but it's us humans that decided that we should have rights.
Suck on it, cry about it if you have to, but there is no big daddy that gave us anything. No constitution ever fell from the sky.
slipcurve 1 year ago
Patriot Act = Republican legacy....
IceC80 1 year ago
will someone shut this douche bag the fuck up!
TheGuruAxle 1 year ago
the problem is that all those guys use completely different definitions of "natural larws". For catholic priest it is "god given laws", for Shermer it is laws evolved in social interactions of human species.
stanpak007 1 year ago
A Libertarian Jesus lover is a blatant contradiction. Jesus was perhaps the most Liberal character in human history.
TheAtheistAllegiance 1 year ago
@TheAtheistAllegiance If not a complete anarcho-communist
niriop 1 year ago
See, this is a civil discussion between an athiest/skeptic and a theist. They acknowledge where they will fundamentally disagree, and move the hell on. Bravo.
squirreljester2 1 year ago 35
Shermer is a tea party fan?...
Michigan1985 1 year ago
@Michigan1985
I presume that like many libertarians he is a fan of the TP, but not a fan of majority of TP members. :D
Voy2378 1 year ago
Fucking nutjob libertarian fuckwads. Selfish assholes. Yes, lets just let the wealthy horde all the money, and let the poor suffer to death. Assholes. When someone is so poor that they can't eat, they have no freedom. The rich just want slaves. Fucking libertarian nutjobs.
Mglosk 1 year ago
@Mglosk
LOL
Look at the differences in standard of living in China 20 years ago and now.
Difference- capitalism.
Also look at Estonia and their evil flat tax:
"Estonia has been fast catching up with the EU-15, having grown GDP per capita from 34.8% of the EU-15 average in 1996 to 65% in 2007, similar to Central Europe"
Almost 2x in 10 years.
Then ignore reality and go watch MSNBC :P and dance in joy that tax cuts for the evil(aka rich) will expire.
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 Nice usage of the strawman argument. You do realise that the USA use to have a lot higher taxes than they have now. In the 70's and 80's most of the richest people were paying in the 70% to 80%. Now they are crying like little babies about 35% going up to like what 40%? We pay some of the lowest taxes in the world.
Flat Tax can work if done right, but it is evil since the rich aren't paying by far enough. The wealthy got their tax cuts and new jobs never came. Good going.
Mglosk 1 year ago
@Mglosk Lets take a look at Finland, they have pure socialism like sweden and both countries are happier and doing much better than we are. Socialised medicine for example does really well in those contres but in countries in which the wealthy are a bit more powerful, the wealthy put a negative spin on it, and refuse to let anyone know the truth about how soclised medicine works.
I don't buy into the nonsense of the libertarian, republican, rich powers.
Ron Paul is a nutjob, e.g.
Mglosk 1 year ago
@Mglosk
Sweden used to be #1 in world in GDP per capita(you know when they had free market, not socialism). Now they are like #16.
Socialized medicine aka theft doesn't work well in Sweden or Canada. Rationing and nice stuff like that. HC is expensive in US because of the government involvement, not because of the evil free market.
They had currency crisis in '92....
So if you want to learn more please read : mises , org/daily/2259
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 @Voy2378 Health Care should not be a business. Taking advantage of people when their most dire of need and sucking up all of their finances like a leech is nothing to be proud of at the end of the quater.
geragna 1 year ago
@geragna
if you want to be a doctor for free nobody is stopping you. What you are forgetting is that (in capitalism) when greedy people act in their self interest they are forced to produce something(or give service) that will benefit the others. So greed is constant, and the capitalism is the only system where greedy people benefit the others.
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 Well that's not what i said at all but w/e. Single Payer or Universal Health Care is the only solution and it works extremely well where its been enacted. A doctor can easily afford a million dollar home in most european countries where it's performed.
Capitalism encourages selfishness and idea that nothing else matters but the bottom line and the profit margin. It's deadly to our survival and that makes it a poisonous ideology.
geragna 1 year ago
@geragna
"s the only solution and it works extremely well where its been enacted. "
YOU LIE!!! :P Seriously do some research.
And that crap about capitalism being poisonous- grow up.
BTW in a free society you and your socialist friends can organize your great Universal HC-nobody would stop you.
But noooo, that isn't enough for you. You want to force others (with a gun) to play with you.
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 You do realize we already have socialized medicine and have had socialized medicine for years? Anyone can walk into any hospital and demand and receive treatment. If they can't afford to pay for it it gets defaulted on and in the end YOU and everyone else ends up having to pay for it in taxes, hospitals are going under because of this. Why not cut the pretense and actually make it work better?
Otokogoroshi 1 year ago
@Otokogoroshi
Because it doesn't work.
watch?v=3WnS96NVlMI
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 What we have doesn't work. People avoid seeing the doctor until they're either much worse or hospitalized due to collapsing. Because it will cost them all their money they avoid care, so a LOT of money will be saved with preventative care. Even health insurance companies are hesitant to pay for preventative care.
What we have is more broken than single payer system, I rather have something that functions over something that doesn't.
Otokogoroshi 1 year ago
@Otokogoroshi
Oh give me a break... people are to stupid to take care of themselves. Few, but not the majority. And money WILL NOT be saved. I mean it's like arguing with a creationists- every bit of information tells that socialized medicine doesn't work, but some refuse to believe that soulless capitalism works, just because socialized medicine sounds better.
watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw
ignore the host if you don't like him.
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 Because socialised medicine works in almost every country it's in. That's the facts, get a clue first then post, clue first, then post. I can back this up. I am looking at the figures right now. You are just a libertarian tool.
Mglosk 1 year ago
@Voy2378 I flat out can't afford to see a doctor. If I get injured I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO PAY FOR IT.
You are talking about something that directly affects me and failing to understand my side of the argument. I'm listening to you but if you don't listen to me this isnt' a dialog its you throwing comments at me while mine bounce off.
You say its like talking to a creationist but at least a creationist usually responds to my points beyond 'people are too stupid to take care of themselves'
Otokogoroshi 1 year ago
@Otokogoroshi Technically a dialogue has a minimum participatory count of one. "The more you know...."
jacksawild 1 year ago
@Voy2378 Also the guy you linked is a bloody fool, an idiot, has tons of misinformation. I rather get my facts from people who have degrees in the fields that apply to what I'm trying to learn about... not some dude off the street.
Otokogoroshi 1 year ago
@Otokogoroshi
he may be a fool, but tell me what is actually a misinformation? He went to mirror universe Canada? And for not being able to afford a doctor-maybe you should ask yourself why you can't afford it-
"The government is good at one thing...it knows how to break your legs, and then hand you a crutch and say 'see if it weren't for the government you wouldn't be able to walk".
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Otokogoroshi
Degrees... sorry to tell you, but a lot of people with degrees have certain political positions that interferes with their judgment or at least with what they say.Again are facts in his or Stossel's video wrong(that the only sector of the HC with falling prices is plastic surgery aka the capitalistic part of the HC)?No.There is nothing that government does better than the private sector,and the HC isn't an exception.
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 That's why you never listen to one person. You get a variety of views and opinions. If enough people with similar levels of experience and education say the same thing... changes are that thing is the right thing. If you limit your sources of information and only listen to the people you already agree with... then you're not getting facts, you're getting your own personal bias reinforced.
Otokogoroshi 1 year ago
@Voy2378 WRONG!
Mglosk 1 year ago
@Voy2378 I need to grow up? You tell me that I'm wrong in saying that I "LIE" and that I need to do some research but you won't give me a reference in you discontent with my statement nor will you give any general information discrediting my statement. You acted a little foolish in that last post my friend.
I'd rather have a reasonable conversation than an arguement that i could just have with my little sister.
geragna 1 year ago
@geragna
You LIE had an :P. It was a joke. You know- Obama speech.
And for the arguments- like I said look up the Stossel's videos. He once was a liberal but found the light of truth. I hope that you will do the same. :P
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 Definatly, I'd rather make the weathy pay than to have poor people suffer. Unlike you I have morals. You call it stealing, I call the wealthy stealing from the blood of the poor. The poor are suffering and all they can care about is their money. So sorry if I could care less for the wealthy. They put us into this situation because of their hording of money and keeping the money out of the general public where it belongs. Give people jobs and higher pay and the economy will improve.
Mglosk 1 year ago
@Mglosk
1. Poor people(that are actually created by the socialist policies- you know like in that Detroit video that you ignore-fuck1ng $11 000 per student per year) suffer more in you socialist heaven than in free society. Sure if you now need a $ 100 000 surgery that will save your life and you don't have the money it would be great to have socialism. But in the long run socialism will hurt more people than it helps in the short run(it's like eating a cow that produces milk).
Voy2378 1 year ago
@Voy2378 A bit arrogant. I really cant grasp as you say it hurts people in the long run
ErPo321 1 year ago