The 9mm 147 HST grain has been adopted by a few LE agencies. Over penetration and no expansion are a concern with the heavy 147 grain 9mm rounds. The 9mm isn't my first choice but would carry this round. When are you going to test some .45 GAP!
@boostimalaka1 That was an issue with 147 grain 9 mm 10 years ago, not any longer because of designs like this.
He's never going to test 45 gap because it is an extinct/worthless cartridge, justify its existence without mentioning law enforcement, justify it solely on its ballistics and sales in the civilian market. Not referencing LE an not bringing up recoil, which is subjective. you must work for Glock to whore for them like this
@bigboss686 Not sure why you knock Glock. Hickok45 as well as tnoutdoors9 are big fans. The .45 GAP is a nice shooting round. I'm sure it well be tested one day.
@boostimalaka1 Congrats, I challenge you to justify the 45 g.a.p without using a LE reference and what do you do? Make something up, brilliant LOL
Who's knocking Glock? Not I, what I'm asking you to do is justify the 45 gap, something glock can't even do, the gen4 redesigned on the G21 is proof of it.
In 9 years on the market 45gap has LESS companies producing ammo for it and FEWER manufacturers making guns for it. It's dead, he will NEVER waste money buying one to do tests :-)
147gr +p seems to me to be the ideal self defence round in 9mm, for two legged and four legged living beings. dont know about this perticular round but 147gr +p it self. maybe not +p in a full length barrel but either way. im no expert so what i have to say really means nothing at all, just my veiw. i carry winchester bonded 124gr +p i got from walmart becuase thats what i got and shoot accuretly enough for me.
@a9mmauto it tested about 966 from +p from my 3in springfield I do wish these great tests would use carry type guns. I would say this is a good carry load for a snubby 9mm. I'm guessing that +- 50fps aint going to make much diff.
In all fairness to the round, I would really like to see both 147 grains tested in a 5 inch barrel, like say out of a beretta 92, which I'm pretty sure many of your viewers own....
You can't go wrong with either load standard, or +P. HST's are all out nasty and I would certainlly not want to get hit with one ! I use the 147 +P and 124 +P depending on weather. I use the 147's when it's cold for penetration reasons. I'll also use Hydra-Shok 124 and 147 gr in standard loading in my Glock 26. The HST's are far more deadly than the Hydra-Shok though. My Glock 17 gets the +p's usually. I also like Gold Dots and Ranger-T's . Silvertips and Golden Sabre became obsolete !
You never said what the penetration was on the plus p load..... you said the penetration of the standard 147 grain load was 13 inches??? what is the peneration of the 147 plus p????
Considering your results, it seems this would be a good load for short barreled 9mms like the Kahr PM9/CM9. This hotter load in the shorter barrel should be just about the same velocity as the standard velocity load in 4"+ barrels.
At the same time I'm fairly surprised at the penetration differences between the two loads. This makes me wonder if there were variables unrelated to the loads that contributed to this difference. Or, perhaps the load tested didn't get its full dose of powder.
I don't know if there is a "best" round, although I prefer 124 gr +P Gold Dots or 147 gr HST's. What might be a "best" round for terminal performance in one scenario may not be the best in another. If there was a method for determining the best round, that particular load may not cycle well in particular firearms, or offer too much recoil for someone. There are numerous loads that should reliably penetrate, expand, and hopefully stop a threat.
I may see a variable between your test with the non +p version. If you notice in the +p test the denim has about a 2 inch gap between layers at impact as compared to no gap between the layers in the non +p test. A 3.4 compared to a 3.6 BB calibration is probably of no relevence between the tests.
Best ballistic testing by far over all other uploaders. I've had this for several years in 40SW cal and it is a sick expanding hp. One person at the local gun show always has the HST for $26 a box/50, this is the ONLY place I have ever found it without going online. Hard to get but excellent offering - keep up the good work!
Thanks for ALL your ammo testing vids. Your hard work is GREATLY appreciated by myself and I'm sure, by many others who don't take time to comment,(usually the case with me). You are doing the gun community a great service, again much thanks!!!!!
Awesome video! I love all of your uploads and I make a majority of my purchase decisions based on your videos. Consequently, this specific video submission has exemplified why the Federal HST 9mm +P will be my preferred self-defense ammunition!
@rajvosa71000 It shortens the life of the gun simply because you're wearing down the material more with +P loads than with standard loads. There's barrel pressure and slide battering to name a few issues with higher pressure loads.
Very interesting. I would personally stick with the standard pressure and the deeper penetration. The difference there was much more significant than the difference in expansion for me. I am a proud carrier of the .40 S&W 180gr HST (standard pressure). Great video, sir!
Another great video comparison. I am curious as to the difference in performance from one round to another and in how these rounds would work in colder temps. The ideal bad guy will be shirtless of course, but if someone were wearing say a Carhart jacket, a flannel shirt and a tee shirt for instance what kind of difference would this make. That would interest me a lot for comparison. 4 layers of denim is a good variable, but what if you did the three layers as I presented. Is that a possibility?
quick question, why do they make flat nose ammo? i could understand for practice but why flat nose, why not fmj style with the rounded tip...is there any beneffit for flat nose tips?
This is a private request- Can you please do a test comparing b-b's and Airsoft pellets. I am in a diagreement with my neighbor over which is worse to get hit by- a daisy red ryder or a 400+fps pellet? I tell my kids just to use a BB gun because it is slower and "cheaper" than the new guns. My neighbor just won't let his kids use BB guns because they are too dangerous. I figure your test should answer the question and open the door for resolving this myth.
I don't have access to airsoft guns but feel that BB's would be more dangerous. However, you could still cause eye damage with an airsoft pellet, so your neighbor's rationale is interesting to say the least. Any "kid launched" airborne projectile is an eye injury waiting to happen. IMO, a better option is for your neighbor to focus on gun safety guidelines as opposed to the differences between BB's and airsoft. Someday, his kids will want real guns with real bullets.
@tnoutdoors9 I think my neighbors concern is that the BB's will hurt more. I'm not so sure when you compare the higher speed pellet to the spring loaded Red Ryder. That's why I expect that penetration would be a good test. If anything they are comparable in pain factor. Head protection for these "wars" is pretty nice- covers eyes, ears, etc.
@MrHardPressed Airsoft was designed to be fired at people just like paintball. The guns have limited power and a fixed velocity. A .177 or .22 bb gun is not designed to be fired at people, the bb's are much harder and smaller in diameter and the guns can vary in velocity by large amounts especially if they are pneumatic pump guns which can be pumped multiple times. I have killed dozens of rats with my pump BB gun, they could easily penetrate skin or plastic eye protection and may be lethal.
@Prometheus203 Obviously you haven't been around these airsoft guns. The guns my children have do have a wide range of velosity NOT a fixed range. They can go as low as a 200+fps up to 500+ fps. As for the BB guns, I am not referring to pump guns but comparing with the Daisy Red Ryder alone or the Daisy Buck which is the cut off version of the Red Ryder.
That sounds like a good round. Lower recoil, but based on this test, excellent terminal ballistics. Might have to track some of this down for M&P9 4.5".
Comparing this to the standard pressure test of the 147 grain HST, is it safe to say that slightly higher velocity (with all other things equal) will actually lessen penetration due to increased expansion?
TN, forget all the internet tough guys. as much as i would like to watch a new video of yours every day, us that live in the real world who actually work know time is money. Ill take your videos as they come.
I would like to see .357 SIG quality ammo tested. It is much higher velocity and similar size bullet. Hypothesis: I think the higher velocity causes the bullet to open up greater and open up faster. This causes the bullet to slow down in the test media and there by not getting as much penetration.
You are in luck. Check the left side of my main channel page, listing of ammo in the house for testing. I added a Glock 32 last week and will begin testing .357 SIG very soon. Not to mention, future vids of just blasting away with the G32!
@vincnet11 - I dont know if you went tit for tat but some +p 9mm I'm sure could come close to .357 sig ballistics and not to mention that in MOST areas in southern cali .357 sig is VERY hard to find and if you find it, it's very pricey for .357 sig. I've seen new glocks in .357 sig selling for $350 new because of the lack of ammo/interest in the round.
@mixwell1983 Dude, I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to tnoutdoors9. I said he should have gotten a .357 Sig Barrel since he already has a .40 Glock.
@vincnet11 - I know you weren't talking to me but since this was a G19 9mm based platform I tried to chime in on possible reasons on him not getting a .357 sig on his .40 cal. I thought your comment was based on this video and Glock platform. From research I still stand behind my convictions from a .40 vs .357 in that the ballistics are probably very closely matched that to waste money on another barrel with harder to find ammo seems like a waste but of course I cannot speak on TN9's behalf.
I do not own the .40 Glock 22 that has appeared in videos and ammo tests; I've borrowed it since late 2009. I actually plan to return it within a week or so. When I bought the G32 .357 SIG, I also got a Glock 23 barrel. So, effectively two guns for plinking and carry, plus the ammo tests. I also see what everyone else is saying, that .357 SIG ammo is a PITA to find. More on that when I do the G32 review. I might carry with the .40 setup and 180 JHP's.
IWBA.....International Wound Ballistics Association. I have incorrectly stated FBI in several videos. I believe the FBI uses layers of denim AND cotton; plus their hard barrier penetration standards. I can't post the URL, so search Google for IWBA and denim. Several results including some from the firearmstactical website.
Thanks for the video. Ive been waiting for you to do the 147+P HSTs. I get mine from Kylesgunshop as well, except I am lucky to have him local to me. Great guy to do business with.
If you're shooting a fat bad guy, I would prefer the added energy. On top of that, the round will stay in the bad guy & potentially not hit any good guys. Great job. Is there a media that would allow your test media to be at body temperature?
Media at body temp.....not that I am aware. I have to watch the temp on this very closely, which is why I'm doing these in the garage this time of year. Direct sunlight or even in the shade on a 95-100 degree day and I've got a slushy block real fast. At least I'm getting a wave of cool air coming into the garage from under the house.
I actually tried to order some of this ammo from Streicher's but it was out of stock so I ended up getting the regular pressure 147 HST 9mm. It looks like I would be well served by either round. Thanks for the tests.
Great ballistics test. I really like the close ups of the bullet after expansion. You do some Great camera work and you put a lot of data into your ballistics tests....awesome job!
Im having a really tough time deciding on what to carry now...all HST jhp of course; 115gr +P+, 124gr standard or +p or now this 147gr standard or +p...think ill just have to put a few of each in my mags lol.
Thanks for doing these tests. My question is this, if it will penetrate 4 layers of denim what does it matter how far it go's into the block (11" or 13")? Wouldnt most shots be head on and just go thru the person anyway? I know wound ch is important but i was just wondering.
I know we're in the same neck of woods & I haven't seen these rounds on the store shelves either. Another great ammo test for the books, thanks for the extra data point & testing.
After watching these test as they came out it seems in general that modern expanding defensive ammo does exactly what it should. I don't remember any major failures. This makes me a little more confident in all modern major brands.
I keep those in my G27 ............+p ,Id like to know how much more powder is in the case via popping the bullets open via bullet puller for the heck of it - as a reloader geek.......ALso on another note........Im thinking of buying a G17 for targets and tricking it out......U ever shoot the 17 VS the 19.......longer barrel show any better groupings?
Great, as always. Were I to carry 9mm, I think I would go with the +P load, given it's greater expansion and lesser penetration. You have given me food for thought:
I carry the G27 with 180gr. Gold Dots. I wonder if this phenomena is consistent with different brands of ammunition?
Thanks for the great reviews , I'm wondering where you got these online? I found them at ammo to go, but was out of stock when I placed my order, one day later:( I buy alot from sgammo.com, they are great to deal with.
Awesome test! It looks like it performed exactly as I though it might. The extra kinetic energy transfered to increased expansion of the bullet rather than penetration. A similar phenomena is occurring w/ the Buffalo Bore +P Barnes XTP rounds in .380 ACP. Those rounds expand almost as much as the HSTs you tested, ~.70", & penetration stops at about 10-11 inches in media as well.
Great video, i have already bought 4 boxs of the +p and wanted to know how it did, well as i can see it looks great!!!!!!! Kyle's gun shop was where i bought mine, dont know if they have any left, but thanks again
Hey Tn Outdoors,, whatever you do KEEP THE AMMO TESTS COMING! Don't start overdiluting a great channel with too many vid of you just shooting. There are MANY MANY MANY people with shooting vids,,,NONE that do a better job at ammo testing.
man, your ballistic tests are really informative. I can't think of any information about the round I would wan't to know that you didn't cover in this video. A+
I am guessing that the added velocity made the bullet mushroom sooner (and to a greater diameter, obviously) and the increased drag through the medium is what reduced the penetration. Would you come to the same conclusion or something different?
@Larrye123 if u want that go check out hickok45 or others ... tn is different that's y we love his vids n as far as the bigfoot outfit its great so stop hating
You/ve now done both the 147 and the 147 +P in 9mm. You have previous videos (using the wetpack) with the 124 gr variant. Any chance of you doing sim testing on the 124 and 124 +P for comparison? I carry the 147 as I'm a believer in the bigger/slower bullet theory.
Also, any chance of seeing the HST .40 and .40 +P in sim testing (the HST .40 is my standard carry load)?
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Hey tnoutdoors boy, I want to see more SHOOTING! Less ammo testing and more lead hitting steel. I don't need the big foot costume but I want to hear rounds hitting those targets, jugs exploding, violence! Don't make me unsubscribe!
You get what you pay for. There will be a fair balance of both, but I need to run ammo tests regularly or my blocks get out of spec. Shooting steel, gun and accessory reviews, POV, tannerite, long range; I can assure you it's all on the list. Every video project has to be aligned with my priorities and timeline, due to increasingly complicated work obligations. The only other option is to do nothing at all. Several channels in this genre have already gone that route.
I've noticed that you've tested both the HST 147gr and HST 147gr +P. How does the felt recoil compare between the two? Because 147gr +P sounds pretty awesome, but I usually have trouble managing recoil, due to my smaller hands.
And it seems to me like both the 147 HST and 147 +P versions would both drop an intruder? Right?
Interesting question, because I've been known to carry a 33 rd mag in the G19 when in the woods, stuffed with 147 gr FMJ's.
The drawback is having to use multiple blocks. Perhaps BIGFOOT will donate some hide to compensate for denim.
I'm likely to first test FMJ vs. flatnose with the .380. Obviously, the .380 isn't a wilderness protection load but from a self-defense view, I'm getting frustrated with crappy penetration from JHP's. Not that I'm completely surprised.
My guess is the increased velocity drives a segment of sales. Difficult to ignore 1050 fps in a 147 gr load when so many are coming in closer to 950 or so. The bump in energy is nice but not at the expense of penetration. As I noted, a trade-off. At this point I have no intentions of swapping the +P for my EDC standard pressure 147 gr HST. Someone may come along and prove that the +P does better against car doors, windshields, etc..
From a velocity standpoint, there would probably be little difference in that comparison. The G26 will lose around 30-40 fps, shooting the SAME load, compared to the G19. The +P will make up the .5 difference in barrel length that it gives up to the G19. The question would be recoil control of +P in the G26 vs. a milder load in the larger G19. I say G19 wins that contest. I owned several G26's over the years and have a fair perspective of comparisons to the G19.
This is probably crazytalk, but have you considered finding an old car door and putting it in front of some simtest? Not sure how you could do a real test with it effectively, but it could still be a fun experiment. :) Thanks for all the vids (both the serious ones and the silly ones). Some of the most valuable on youtube and always a pleasure to watch.
I'll talk to my wife about sacrificing one of our vehicles to the ammo test gods. There are a couple of old cars that appear in the background of my earlier videos, but those were recently removed for scrap metal.
It would definitely be an interesting test, and I'm betting that law enforcement agencies would find such a test of GREAT interest. Not likely in the near future, but I'm always up for trying something different. Will check the local dumps and cost feasibility.
I feel inclined to do the same. I am not terribly concerned about the FPS spread, as I also consider the advertised velocity and percentage of deviation from that figure; high or low. Most loads I've tested are within 5 to 6% of the advertised figure, going either direction.
I pulled all of those at random. Couldn't believe that I found an oddball in the mix.
it would be awesome to see what those WWB 147gr hollow points would do in SIM test media. even if they don't expand they might still do more damage than just a normal FMJ
The 9mm 147 HST grain has been adopted by a few LE agencies. Over penetration and no expansion are a concern with the heavy 147 grain 9mm rounds. The 9mm isn't my first choice but would carry this round. When are you going to test some .45 GAP!
boostimalaka1 1 week ago
@boostimalaka1 That was an issue with 147 grain 9 mm 10 years ago, not any longer because of designs like this.
He's never going to test 45 gap because it is an extinct/worthless cartridge, justify its existence without mentioning law enforcement, justify it solely on its ballistics and sales in the civilian market. Not referencing LE an not bringing up recoil, which is subjective. you must work for Glock to whore for them like this
Do it, or show yourself to be ignorant,
bigboss686 4 days ago
@bigboss686 Not sure why you knock Glock. Hickok45 as well as tnoutdoors9 are big fans. The .45 GAP is a nice shooting round. I'm sure it well be tested one day.
boostimalaka1 4 days ago
@boostimalaka1 Congrats, I challenge you to justify the 45 g.a.p without using a LE reference and what do you do? Make something up, brilliant LOL
Who's knocking Glock? Not I, what I'm asking you to do is justify the 45 gap, something glock can't even do, the gen4 redesigned on the G21 is proof of it.
In 9 years on the market 45gap has LESS companies producing ammo for it and FEWER manufacturers making guns for it. It's dead, he will NEVER waste money buying one to do tests :-)
bigboss686 4 days ago 2
147gr +p seems to me to be the ideal self defence round in 9mm, for two legged and four legged living beings. dont know about this perticular round but 147gr +p it self. maybe not +p in a full length barrel but either way. im no expert so what i have to say really means nothing at all, just my veiw. i carry winchester bonded 124gr +p i got from walmart becuase thats what i got and shoot accuretly enough for me.
AdversaryOmega 2 weeks ago
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pystolwhip 3 weeks ago
question is, would you trust a 9mm for self defence - having now tested it in such a way?
lobzdik 1 month ago
I am amazed, Both rounds expanded beautifully like a flower in full bloom.
MrBigarmand 1 month ago
I got the plus p for my 3in barrel hoping its close to standard velocity.
a9mmauto 1 month ago
@a9mmauto it tested about 966 from +p from my 3in springfield I do wish these great tests would use carry type guns. I would say this is a good carry load for a snubby 9mm. I'm guessing that +- 50fps aint going to make much diff.
Fourbore 1 month ago
Great video as always very informative
humvee34 1 month ago
is this ammo still being produced, i didnt see it on the federal ammo website
captainkaos131313 2 months ago
Rafinha Bastos, é você?
DaeronCarvalho 2 months ago
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70scarrestoguy 2 months ago
I like your ammo test Great Job. I gonna start carrying 147gr in my 9mm.
1980superstar1 2 months ago
Do you try the 124gr like the P9HST1 or P9HST3? Where you can get the P9HST1 or P9HST4?
Thanks
amos1688 2 months ago
This is what I use in my EDC.
Love it. That is, when I can find it..
The blossom is near perfect every time, and its sharp after.
It's a nasty, gnarly round designed for one thing..
FurchtsameTraume 2 months ago
In all fairness to the round, I would really like to see both 147 grains tested in a 5 inch barrel, like say out of a beretta 92, which I'm pretty sure many of your viewers own....
ALJR223 2 months ago
You can't go wrong with either load standard, or +P. HST's are all out nasty and I would certainlly not want to get hit with one ! I use the 147 +P and 124 +P depending on weather. I use the 147's when it's cold for penetration reasons. I'll also use Hydra-Shok 124 and 147 gr in standard loading in my Glock 26. The HST's are far more deadly than the Hydra-Shok though. My Glock 17 gets the +p's usually. I also like Gold Dots and Ranger-T's . Silvertips and Golden Sabre became obsolete !
TommyGuns40 3 months ago
4:54; It's beautiful. It almost looks like a natural flower.
grishfish 3 months ago
You never said what the penetration was on the plus p load..... you said the penetration of the standard 147 grain load was 13 inches??? what is the peneration of the 147 plus p????
ICCW09 3 months ago
@ICCW09 At 3:30 he says 11 and 1/4 inches.
frankgon4 3 months ago
@ICCW09 He said it was 11.25 inches
ALJR223 2 months ago
i dont see how anyone could say 9mm is insufficient for self defense that is a nasty looking round. seems to do plenty of damage to me
campusgolfchamp 3 months ago
Is it fair to say that this ammo compares really close to the .45 acp +p (as far as expansion and penetration)?
wilmerpola777 4 months ago in playlist More videos from tnoutdoors9
How deep did this penetrate? I don't think you said.
tartredarrow 4 months ago
Hay can try to make a ballistic test of a Speer Gold Dot 124gr +p 9mm and a Federal HST 124gr +p test? Comparison in penetration and expansion?
IXxReconxXI 4 months ago
Great review! I'm gonna pick up some of this ammo, but its not +p, do you think its a big deal?
M4CARBINE556 4 months ago
Another great video! Great info, simple, and nicely done. Thank you! I'm stickin to the regular pressure 147gr HST's.
0Rockstar7 4 months ago
Excellent video!... Thank you.
slicksassault 5 months ago
Any chance of testing the 124 grain 9mm HST?
toolman2364 5 months ago
@toolman2364
I sold most of mine to someone locally, but I still have enough rounds for testing.
tnoutdoors9 5 months ago
same exact performance as the standard ammo test you did, no increase or added benefit from their +P rating.
altops 5 months ago
Considering your results, it seems this would be a good load for short barreled 9mms like the Kahr PM9/CM9. This hotter load in the shorter barrel should be just about the same velocity as the standard velocity load in 4"+ barrels.
At the same time I'm fairly surprised at the penetration differences between the two loads. This makes me wonder if there were variables unrelated to the loads that contributed to this difference. Or, perhaps the load tested didn't get its full dose of powder.
ohyousooners 6 months ago
good day what would you say is the best round in 9mm for self defense what is your favorite?
TheAirsoftmaster3 6 months ago
@TheAirsoftmaster3
I don't know if there is a "best" round, although I prefer 124 gr +P Gold Dots or 147 gr HST's. What might be a "best" round for terminal performance in one scenario may not be the best in another. If there was a method for determining the best round, that particular load may not cycle well in particular firearms, or offer too much recoil for someone. There are numerous loads that should reliably penetrate, expand, and hopefully stop a threat.
tnoutdoors9 5 months ago
@tnoutdoors9
How did the recoil in the 147+P compare to the regular 147?
bradleywalters1 6 months ago
@bradleywalters1
Noticable, but not a deal breaker if I were to consider converting from the standard pressure to +P in the 147 HST.
tnoutdoors9 5 months ago
@tnoutdoors9
Essentially, it's been my observation watching your videos that +P rounds expand more, but penetrate less, than non- +P. Would you agree with this?
bradleywalters1 4 months ago
I have the Glock 19 Gen4:
Yep, this is what I carry!! The +P is a really good round!!
Thanks for confirming for me in such detail.
Hey Hickok, love your work too!!!!
cdewerff 6 months ago
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I may see a variable between your test with the non +p version. If you notice in the +p test the denim has about a 2 inch gap between layers at impact as compared to no gap between the layers in the non +p test. A 3.4 compared to a 3.6 BB calibration is probably of no relevence between the tests.
MrBigden37 6 months ago
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MrBigden37 6 months ago
Excellent! You have the best ballistic tests on U-tube, if not anywhere, bar the manufacturer or FBI and police agencies.
MrBigden37 6 months ago
Best ballistic testing by far over all other uploaders. I've had this for several years in 40SW cal and it is a sick expanding hp. One person at the local gun show always has the HST for $26 a box/50, this is the ONLY place I have ever found it without going online. Hard to get but excellent offering - keep up the good work!
HorsepowerAddiction 6 months ago
Thanks for ALL your ammo testing vids. Your hard work is GREATLY appreciated by myself and I'm sure, by many others who don't take time to comment,(usually the case with me). You are doing the gun community a great service, again much thanks!!!!!
MBeezil 6 months ago
Awesome video! I love all of your uploads and I make a majority of my purchase decisions based on your videos. Consequently, this specific video submission has exemplified why the Federal HST 9mm +P will be my preferred self-defense ammunition!
ChounchMcGavin 6 months ago
★★★★★
Great video sir!
TheMultiGunMan 6 months ago
This is great stuff, nice to see the difference between the standard and +P loads. Thank you again for your excellent work.
theKGB65 6 months ago
Love your videos, I just ordered some .40cal and 9mm ammo, I got the .40cal in 165gr and 9mm in 124gr.
Anyway, is it true that +p ammo would mess up your barrel after some time?
rajvosa71000 6 months ago
@rajvosa71000 It shortens the life of the gun simply because you're wearing down the material more with +P loads than with standard loads. There's barrel pressure and slide battering to name a few issues with higher pressure loads.
TheWitnesserer 6 months ago
Very interesting. I would personally stick with the standard pressure and the deeper penetration. The difference there was much more significant than the difference in expansion for me. I am a proud carrier of the .40 S&W 180gr HST (standard pressure). Great video, sir!
bigosbro21 6 months ago
Thanks man, keep up the great work with your ammo vids.
gjr4315 6 months ago
just look at that thing! show that to young gang members should pull their heads back into line
horseboyhunglow 6 months ago
Another great video comparison. I am curious as to the difference in performance from one round to another and in how these rounds would work in colder temps. The ideal bad guy will be shirtless of course, but if someone were wearing say a Carhart jacket, a flannel shirt and a tee shirt for instance what kind of difference would this make. That would interest me a lot for comparison. 4 layers of denim is a good variable, but what if you did the three layers as I presented. Is that a possibility?
ZombieTacticalStore 6 months ago
Excellent video! A lot of useful information in it. Thank you for making it.
PonchTX 6 months ago
quick question, why do they make flat nose ammo? i could understand for practice but why flat nose, why not fmj style with the rounded tip...is there any beneffit for flat nose tips?
rajvosa71000 6 months ago
This is a private request- Can you please do a test comparing b-b's and Airsoft pellets. I am in a diagreement with my neighbor over which is worse to get hit by- a daisy red ryder or a 400+fps pellet? I tell my kids just to use a BB gun because it is slower and "cheaper" than the new guns. My neighbor just won't let his kids use BB guns because they are too dangerous. I figure your test should answer the question and open the door for resolving this myth.
Thanks- I love your work!
MrHardPressed 6 months ago
@MrHardPressed
I don't have access to airsoft guns but feel that BB's would be more dangerous. However, you could still cause eye damage with an airsoft pellet, so your neighbor's rationale is interesting to say the least. Any "kid launched" airborne projectile is an eye injury waiting to happen. IMO, a better option is for your neighbor to focus on gun safety guidelines as opposed to the differences between BB's and airsoft. Someday, his kids will want real guns with real bullets.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago 5
@tnoutdoors9 I think my neighbors concern is that the BB's will hurt more. I'm not so sure when you compare the higher speed pellet to the spring loaded Red Ryder. That's why I expect that penetration would be a good test. If anything they are comparable in pain factor. Head protection for these "wars" is pretty nice- covers eyes, ears, etc.
MrHardPressed 6 months ago
@MrHardPressed
Ok, I've got it. In NO WAY should they be shooting metal BB's at each other, regardless of velocity; Red Ryder, Crosman 760, etc.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago 5
@MrHardPressed Airsoft was designed to be fired at people just like paintball. The guns have limited power and a fixed velocity. A .177 or .22 bb gun is not designed to be fired at people, the bb's are much harder and smaller in diameter and the guns can vary in velocity by large amounts especially if they are pneumatic pump guns which can be pumped multiple times. I have killed dozens of rats with my pump BB gun, they could easily penetrate skin or plastic eye protection and may be lethal.
Prometheus203 6 months ago
@Prometheus203 Obviously you haven't been around these airsoft guns. The guns my children have do have a wide range of velosity NOT a fixed range. They can go as low as a 200+fps up to 500+ fps. As for the BB guns, I am not referring to pump guns but comparing with the Daisy Red Ryder alone or the Daisy Buck which is the cut off version of the Red Ryder.
MrHardPressed 6 months ago
@MrHardPressed Do you think this is the proper forum for BB gun and air-soft ballistics requests?
MrBigden37 6 months ago
Good job! Has the FBI lab made you any offers yet? You're getting mighty professional for YouTube! :-)
hickok45 6 months ago 22
@hickok45
I have received several calls from the people managing the Victoria's Secret website, but I suspect that has nothing to do with ammo testing.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago 27
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@tnoutdoors9
How did the recoil in the 147+P compare to the regular 147?
bradleywalters1 6 months ago
@bradleywalters1
More noticeable in the +P, but still underwhelming vs. what I anticipated.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9
That sounds like a good round. Lower recoil, but based on this test, excellent terminal ballistics. Might have to track some of this down for M&P9 4.5".
bradleywalters1 6 months ago
Are you camera man or somthing!!!! you either have a freakin expensive camera or you have some skills>....;)
samster85 6 months ago
Comparing this to the standard pressure test of the 147 grain HST, is it safe to say that slightly higher velocity (with all other things equal) will actually lessen penetration due to increased expansion?
Ambicioso25 6 months ago
Well done. An impressive round!
TheGunfighter45acp 6 months ago
may open faster but thats more energy transfer to the 'whatever'
thetruthbroseph 6 months ago
Excellent. This is the test I have been waiting for. Thank you for taking the time to do this testing.
Hoodyhoo2121 6 months ago
need another box of nodoze
peptopro17 6 months ago
TN, forget all the internet tough guys. as much as i would like to watch a new video of yours every day, us that live in the real world who actually work know time is money. Ill take your videos as they come.
Pr0jeCtPa7 6 months ago
I would like to see .357 SIG quality ammo tested. It is much higher velocity and similar size bullet. Hypothesis: I think the higher velocity causes the bullet to open up greater and open up faster. This causes the bullet to slow down in the test media and there by not getting as much penetration.
frankgon4 6 months ago 2
@frankgon4
You are in luck. Check the left side of my main channel page, listing of ammo in the house for testing. I added a Glock 32 last week and will begin testing .357 SIG very soon. Not to mention, future vids of just blasting away with the G32!
BTW, I also agree with your hypothesis.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago 2
@tnoutdoors9 Outstanding. I just purchased a Glock 32. I am anticipating the video.
frankgon4 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9 Why didn't you just buy a .357sig barrel for your .40 Glock?
vincnet11 6 months ago
@vincnet11 - I dont know if you went tit for tat but some +p 9mm I'm sure could come close to .357 sig ballistics and not to mention that in MOST areas in southern cali .357 sig is VERY hard to find and if you find it, it's very pricey for .357 sig. I've seen new glocks in .357 sig selling for $350 new because of the lack of ammo/interest in the round.
mixwell1983 6 months ago
@vincnet11 - also not sure if you're confused on the model but glock 19 is a 9mm platform as opposed to the G23 which would be the .40 =
mixwell1983 6 months ago
@mixwell1983 Dude, I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to tnoutdoors9. I said he should have gotten a .357 Sig Barrel since he already has a .40 Glock.
vincnet11 6 months ago
@vincnet11 - I know you weren't talking to me but since this was a G19 9mm based platform I tried to chime in on possible reasons on him not getting a .357 sig on his .40 cal. I thought your comment was based on this video and Glock platform. From research I still stand behind my convictions from a .40 vs .357 in that the ballistics are probably very closely matched that to waste money on another barrel with harder to find ammo seems like a waste but of course I cannot speak on TN9's behalf.
mixwell1983 6 months ago
@vincnet11
I do not own the .40 Glock 22 that has appeared in videos and ammo tests; I've borrowed it since late 2009. I actually plan to return it within a week or so. When I bought the G32 .357 SIG, I also got a Glock 23 barrel. So, effectively two guns for plinking and carry, plus the ammo tests. I also see what everyone else is saying, that .357 SIG ammo is a PITA to find. More on that when I do the G32 review. I might carry with the .40 setup and 180 JHP's.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
I just wondered what is the reason for 4 layers of denim? I mean who would wear 4 layers of denim??
1039sflem 6 months ago
@1039sflem
It simulates a worse case scenario of thick clothing.
Evilliboba 6 months ago
@1039sflem
It is also an FBI standard for testing.
Evilliboba 6 months ago
@Evilliboba
IWBA.....International Wound Ballistics Association. I have incorrectly stated FBI in several videos. I believe the FBI uses layers of denim AND cotton; plus their hard barrier penetration standards. I can't post the URL, so search Google for IWBA and denim. Several results including some from the firearmstactical website.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9
Thank you for the correction sir.
Keep up the awesome videos!
Evilliboba 6 months ago
Thanks for the video. Ive been waiting for you to do the 147+P HSTs. I get mine from Kylesgunshop as well, except I am lucky to have him local to me. Great guy to do business with.
zigzagg321321 6 months ago
If you're shooting a fat bad guy, I would prefer the added energy. On top of that, the round will stay in the bad guy & potentially not hit any good guys. Great job. Is there a media that would allow your test media to be at body temperature?
pr4runner 6 months ago
@pr4runner
Media at body temp.....not that I am aware. I have to watch the temp on this very closely, which is why I'm doing these in the garage this time of year. Direct sunlight or even in the shade on a 95-100 degree day and I've got a slushy block real fast. At least I'm getting a wave of cool air coming into the garage from under the house.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
ammo nerds unite!
breakingbennie 6 months ago 2
I actually tried to order some of this ammo from Streicher's but it was out of stock so I ended up getting the regular pressure 147 HST 9mm. It looks like I would be well served by either round. Thanks for the tests.
dphitch 6 months ago
It makes me wonder how the better 9mm loads fare agains the better .40S&W loads.
flabeachcomber 6 months ago
hmm i wonder how much further it would have penetrated if it stayed on a straight path instead of curving up?
choody34 6 months ago
@choody34
It likely turned at the stopping point or shortly prior to that.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
Great ballistics test. I really like the close ups of the bullet after expansion. You do some Great camera work and you put a lot of data into your ballistics tests....awesome job!
xtremearmor 6 months ago
Great vid TN9. As ussual =))
robin6512 6 months ago
Im having a really tough time deciding on what to carry now...all HST jhp of course; 115gr +P+, 124gr standard or +p or now this 147gr standard or +p...think ill just have to put a few of each in my mags lol.
CPLBSS88 6 months ago
Another great test and interesting results!
72cmcinc 6 months ago
You do excellent tests and videos.
edgybob1 6 months ago
Looks like it would get the job done. Great video!
Brandon401401 6 months ago
HST never disappoints me, what ever the hell they are doing at federal it is working nice.
pjicleanair420 6 months ago
Thanks for the review, another great video
patrickbeeman1 6 months ago
Thanks for doing these tests. My question is this, if it will penetrate 4 layers of denim what does it matter how far it go's into the block (11" or 13")? Wouldnt most shots be head on and just go thru the person anyway? I know wound ch is important but i was just wondering.
iwillybilly 6 months ago
Another great video.
scooter17568 6 months ago
what does that break down in to kinetic energy 147gr @ 1052 fps ???
Blk05titan26 6 months ago
@Blk05titan26 i dont know if i calculated right but i came out on 47 newton of force.
spekbakker 6 months ago
I know we're in the same neck of woods & I haven't seen these rounds on the store shelves either. Another great ammo test for the books, thanks for the extra data point & testing.
p.s. the still shots look perfect!
CampfireTalk 6 months ago
After watching these test as they came out it seems in general that modern expanding defensive ammo does exactly what it should. I don't remember any major failures. This makes me a little more confident in all modern major brands.
KevinAlexanderSmith 6 months ago
Nasty round my man...
ketel1 6 months ago
I keep those in my G27 ............+p ,Id like to know how much more powder is in the case via popping the bullets open via bullet puller for the heck of it - as a reloader geek.......ALso on another note........Im thinking of buying a G17 for targets and tricking it out......U ever shoot the 17 VS the 19.......longer barrel show any better groupings?
excelerater 6 months ago
Dude...I have learned a ton watching your videos. Keep the ammo tests going and we will watch!!! GREAT job sir!
Rouzie31 6 months ago
Great, as always. Were I to carry 9mm, I think I would go with the +P load, given it's greater expansion and lesser penetration. You have given me food for thought:
I carry the G27 with 180gr. Gold Dots. I wonder if this phenomena is consistent with different brands of ammunition?
Tanrichguy 6 months ago
Thanks for the great reviews , I'm wondering where you got these online? I found them at ammo to go, but was out of stock when I placed my order, one day later:( I buy alot from sgammo.com, they are great to deal with.
Meanfurball 6 months ago
Out of any box of 9mm in the world (for $25 or less for a box of 50) what would you choose for a home defense situation in a Glock 17?
WeAreTwoDoorsDown 6 months ago
Nice looking result actually. Would pick some up if I run across it.
TheTactical6string 6 months ago
I always love these ballistic videos!
wmd44110 6 months ago
great video once agian a job well done .... i enjoy your videos thank you
dills2403 6 months ago
that thing looks freaking mean!
TacticalTuckFard 6 months ago
Awesome test! It looks like it performed exactly as I though it might. The extra kinetic energy transfered to increased expansion of the bullet rather than penetration. A similar phenomena is occurring w/ the Buffalo Bore +P Barnes XTP rounds in .380 ACP. Those rounds expand almost as much as the HSTs you tested, ~.70", & penetration stops at about 10-11 inches in media as well.
VeracityNation 6 months ago
Great video, i have already bought 4 boxs of the +p and wanted to know how it did, well as i can see it looks great!!!!!!! Kyle's gun shop was where i bought mine, dont know if they have any left, but thanks again
miah022 6 months ago
Love the great work you are doing, thank you for your efforts and taking the time for the quality productions!
makun16 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9 your reviews and comments are always great info! Keep up the excellent work!
benmc68 6 months ago
You should do a video on how you make your ballistic gelatin.
quimbyt 6 months ago
@quimbyt
Check the uploads along the February 2011 timeline.....two videos of that process.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago 2
Hey Tn Outdoors,, whatever you do KEEP THE AMMO TESTS COMING! Don't start overdiluting a great channel with too many vid of you just shooting. There are MANY MANY MANY people with shooting vids,,,NONE that do a better job at ammo testing.
"Don't make me unsubscribe!"
vassal11 6 months ago
man, your ballistic tests are really informative. I can't think of any information about the round I would wan't to know that you didn't cover in this video. A+
hugo2x 6 months ago
they say that smoking mushrooms will kill you, but it appears to me that a mushroom bullet will kill you faster lol.
pokemonrocks08 6 months ago
Just side note ignore the haters you make good videos thanks for taking the time.
jmmurdy 6 months ago
I was thinking about buying a box of these. Now I'm thinking about buying 2.
1faSStchevy 6 months ago
Nice video I used to carry the 147 not plus p but I always thought it was good ammo...very destructive stuff.
jmmurdy 6 months ago
TN9,
I am guessing that the added velocity made the bullet mushroom sooner (and to a greater diameter, obviously) and the increased drag through the medium is what reduced the penetration. Would you come to the same conclusion or something different?
Great work as usual!
ssstealth 6 months ago
@ssstealth
That pretty much sums it up.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
@Larrye123 if u want that go check out hickok45 or others ... tn is different that's y we love his vids n as far as the bigfoot outfit its great so stop hating
WickedKlown10mm 6 months ago 14
Keep up the great vids tn glad to see u back
WickedKlown10mm 6 months ago
now thats a flower i would send..thanks for showing these test..your 360p looks better then most hd vids..
phishst1cks 6 months ago
How can people dislike this? These are very interesting tests. Thank you for spending money to give reviews that are beneficial to us gun geeks. :)
LouieIn720p 6 months ago
great job as always!
DagaYute 6 months ago
another great vid from tn9!
multicam2000 6 months ago
You/ve now done both the 147 and the 147 +P in 9mm. You have previous videos (using the wetpack) with the 124 gr variant. Any chance of you doing sim testing on the 124 and 124 +P for comparison? I carry the 147 as I'm a believer in the bigger/slower bullet theory.
Also, any chance of seeing the HST .40 and .40 +P in sim testing (the HST .40 is my standard carry load)?
Thanks and keep up the great work! Be well.
dbabele 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Hey tnoutdoors boy, I want to see more SHOOTING! Less ammo testing and more lead hitting steel. I don't need the big foot costume but I want to hear rounds hitting those targets, jugs exploding, violence! Don't make me unsubscribe!
Larrye123 6 months ago
@Larrye123
You get what you pay for. There will be a fair balance of both, but I need to run ammo tests regularly or my blocks get out of spec. Shooting steel, gun and accessory reviews, POV, tannerite, long range; I can assure you it's all on the list. Every video project has to be aligned with my priorities and timeline, due to increasingly complicated work obligations. The only other option is to do nothing at all. Several channels in this genre have already gone that route.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago 10
@tnoutdoors9 I actually subscribed BECAUSE you do a great job testing ammunition. It's about a scientific as you'll find on youtube. So.....thanks.
NCHunter79 6 months ago 3
@tnoutdoors9 I think these videos are great. If people don't appreciate these, that's their loss.
Kg363 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9
Just keep on doing exactly what you are doing tnoutdoors9!
You have over 6,100,000 views so you are obviously doing things right. Keep up the great work. Much appreciated.
MamoDad 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9
Hey TN Outdoors 9 -
I've noticed that you've tested both the HST 147gr and HST 147gr +P. How does the felt recoil compare between the two? Because 147gr +P sounds pretty awesome, but I usually have trouble managing recoil, due to my smaller hands.
And it seems to me like both the 147 HST and 147 +P versions would both drop an intruder? Right?
bradleywalters1 6 months ago
i think one other thing to consider with the standard vs +p is that you only have results for one of each. quite possible it was a fluke.
12799MaDeuce 6 months ago
Well done sir! Keep up the great testing!
TigerMike901 6 months ago
thank you so much for these videos they help me choose a carry load , i am currently with spear gold dot 147
MrMase12 6 months ago
excellent video as usual. whoever clicked "dislike" is a moron.
NIKON777 6 months ago
Have you ever thought about testing FMJ and flat nose bullets? Seeing what maximum penetration you can get for wilderness protection loads?
xZarthornx 6 months ago
@xZarthornx
Interesting question, because I've been known to carry a 33 rd mag in the G19 when in the woods, stuffed with 147 gr FMJ's.
The drawback is having to use multiple blocks. Perhaps BIGFOOT will donate some hide to compensate for denim.
I'm likely to first test FMJ vs. flatnose with the .380. Obviously, the .380 isn't a wilderness protection load but from a self-defense view, I'm getting frustrated with crappy penetration from JHP's. Not that I'm completely surprised.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
out of the two , witch one do you prefer to carry. one that expands farther or one with deeper penetration .
millster101 6 months ago
Just my opinion but I think i'd stick with the standards, less pressure, little less expansion but more penetration..
I think the standard is probably the more rounded load in this case but what do you think? you never did say.
and ya.. pita to get ahold of locally.
opisex 6 months ago
@opisex
My guess is the increased velocity drives a segment of sales. Difficult to ignore 1050 fps in a 147 gr load when so many are coming in closer to 950 or so. The bump in energy is nice but not at the expense of penetration. As I noted, a trade-off. At this point I have no intentions of swapping the +P for my EDC standard pressure 147 gr HST. Someone may come along and prove that the +P does better against car doors, windshields, etc..
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9 Do you think the +p would perform the same out of a glock 26 as a standard pressure out of a glock 19? i.e. G26 w/+p = G19 w/standard?
NCHunter79 6 months ago
@NCHunter79
From a velocity standpoint, there would probably be little difference in that comparison. The G26 will lose around 30-40 fps, shooting the SAME load, compared to the G19. The +P will make up the .5 difference in barrel length that it gives up to the G19. The question would be recoil control of +P in the G26 vs. a milder load in the larger G19. I say G19 wins that contest. I owned several G26's over the years and have a fair perspective of comparisons to the G19.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
@tnoutdoors9
This is probably crazytalk, but have you considered finding an old car door and putting it in front of some simtest? Not sure how you could do a real test with it effectively, but it could still be a fun experiment. :) Thanks for all the vids (both the serious ones and the silly ones). Some of the most valuable on youtube and always a pleasure to watch.
snupples 6 months ago
@snupples
I'll talk to my wife about sacrificing one of our vehicles to the ammo test gods. There are a couple of old cars that appear in the background of my earlier videos, but those were recently removed for scrap metal.
It would definitely be an interesting test, and I'm betting that law enforcement agencies would find such a test of GREAT interest. Not likely in the near future, but I'm always up for trying something different. Will check the local dumps and cost feasibility.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
TN, thank you for your service!!!
TheMolysProject 6 months ago
:neat:
fresca9990211 6 months ago
Great video.
1crimm 6 months ago
ISNT IT GREAT HOW THIS ROUND WILL ALWAYS EXPAND TO THE SIZE OF A GOOD 40S&W LOAD...
tymanG19fan 6 months ago
I think I'll stick with the standard pressure 147 HSTs.
A velocity spread of 65 fps seems like a lot. Also that one with the shorter serrations was odd.
myantispambox 6 months ago
@myantispambox
I feel inclined to do the same. I am not terribly concerned about the FPS spread, as I also consider the advertised velocity and percentage of deviation from that figure; high or low. Most loads I've tested are within 5 to 6% of the advertised figure, going either direction.
I pulled all of those at random. Couldn't believe that I found an oddball in the mix.
tnoutdoors9 6 months ago
THOMAS.....MAN YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG IVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU TO DO THE +P VERSION...THANKS BROTHER! THIS IS MY CARRY LOAD IN BOTH MY 19 AND 26
tymanG19fan 6 months ago
it would be awesome to see what those WWB 147gr hollow points would do in SIM test media. even if they don't expand they might still do more damage than just a normal FMJ
isaazman123 6 months ago
@isaazman123
I have tons of those j