the reason he isn't used as a model is,is he sometimes talked bollocks i'm afraid,he used to advocate using the arms and rists for power, when he himself had a massive shoulder and hip rotation and very active legs, but was seemingly unaware of this! there's a video on here where he's trying to tell a well built beginner not to use the power in his body, any teaching credibility is gone as far as i'm concerned at this point, where hogan had learnt the hardway and really understood
Hmm. I think you're in a very small minority. Snead had a reputation as a first-rate teacher, one of the best ever, actually. You're making the same mistake that the typical "body release/body moves the arms" theorist does, which is to assume that if a guy talks about hands and arms for power, he must mean the body isn't involved. Not true at all. Check Snead's "Key Approach" book and you can't miss all he says about the importance of the torso and lower body...
@emncaity does this refer to the time when after 4 duck-hooks off the tea, at wentworth, Hogan snapped "Sam will you put that goddam driver away" in which he duly did so!! also would you advise a beginner to use his arms and wrist's to strike a ball?? when this is the single most common fault with beginners? i believe that anyone can play golf to a decent standard! sam snead was an absolute natural with no clue as to how he did it! where Hogan new exactly what he was doing!!
I've seen Ralph Mann make the same misguided criticisms of the "arms and hands" school. Guys like Snead, Toski, Flick, etc. will tell you every time that the rest of the body MUST be involved. It's not that hard to understand how these two apparently extreme views really are just two aspects of how people feel a swing. If you're athletic at all, and you try to throw a baseball 20 yards, you'll feel the swinging motion of your arm and the release of your hand, but...
@emncaity sorry but this is contrary to what snead say's in another video,you can acheive extra clubhead speed by using the arms and wrist's but at a risk to accuracy!
...your torso and legs will make a kind of gentle move to support the low-energy swing. But if you try to hit home plate from left field, nobody has to tell you to wind up your shoulders, step into the throw, unload in a big way from the ground up--but the whole point is again to get to the swing of the arm and snap of the hand, without which all that power generated in the trunk and legs is wasted. Some people feel it one way, some another. But what actually happens doesn't change.
@emncaity velocity x mass=momentum it is momentum which sends a ball, or any object! the arms simply connect the object to the body,where the mass is try sitting in a chair and see how far you throw a ball?? then stand up and try.........i rest my case!
I've seen people make mistakes both ways, but currently what I see much more often is the guy who drives the body, labors with his torso, etc., but has no swinging motion and no snap at the bottom of the arc, so you see this big heaving "big-muscle" motion and no power at all.
@emncaity i am 5'7" and 160ibs and regulary outdrive guys much bigger than me i "NEVER" think about arms or hands i simply set my angles and turn not "lunge" as i see regularly, think about tiger's huge sweep,and why has he got the fastest hips in golf??? there nearly as fast as his shoulders!!! TORQUE!!! created by the mass of his very athletic form involving ever muscle from his feet up!
I see this really often among young competitive players who are overtrained. All the parts look good, the "positions" look good, the turn looks trained, etc., but the shots are lifeless, and/or there's no sense for distance.
For Snead's part, he was famous for saying "turn and burn." No lifeless picking up the arms and dropping the club on the ball for him. As for Hogan, part of the problem is that modern theorists have overinterpreted and overelaborated on what he actually said.
MIKE AUSTIN WAS THE GREAT TEAHCES IN THE WORLD OF GOLF AND HE HIT THE GOLF BALL 515 YARD AT AGE 64, DAN SHAUGER LEARNED FROM THE BEST TEACHES AUSTIN, I HAD SEVERAL LESSON FROM DAN AND NOW I HIT MY GOLF BALL STRAIGHT DOWN LINE NOW AND HE HELP WITH MY SHORT GAME AND PUTTING, DAN HAS 2 BOOK AN 27 DVD aperfectswing THANK TO DAN I PLAY A BETTER AROUND OF GOLF NOW GREAT TEACHES
style, folks, is what it's all about. make your swing your own. even if you absolutely love snead, couples (be still my heart), hogan, or tiger, you're still yourself. be yourself and get past all these mechanical thoughts and just figure out how to manage YOUR GAME around the course. the practice tee is for sorting out the kinks, the course is for playing.
holy smokes, Snead and Hogan with "flaws" in their swings? Remember they were going against the big boys in the world and they delivered. Hogan and Snead, to me, had beautiful swings, Snead nearly always and Hogan in the fifties and later.
If the two best ball strikers ever were Moe Norman and Ben Hogan, whose swing could not be more different in appearance, then arguing over who has the best swing is pointless.
For where my body is right now, Shawn Clements swing is the one that I prefer. All of my joint/back issues went away and my dispersion rate with my irons is even less than it was with my old x-factor based swing.
No one with any knowledge of Hogan ever said he had a great swing. His grip was too strong, his arc too flat, and a bit stiff and not fluid and athletic like Snead's. However, Hogan did have a great repeating swing due to his incessant practice. And like all good ball strikers, Hogan was in the correct hitting position 30 inches before and after impact.
Both Hogan and Snead had flaws. A great swing doesn't require flawlessness, or there'd be no great ones. If you like smoothness and rhythm and a guy who doesn't get mired in the details, you like Snead. If you like a smaller guy who's figured out how plane works and how to add power and thrust to his swing without destroying path, plane, or the basic swing motion, you like Hogan.
I absolutely love Snead and can't understand why he hasn't become at least as much a model for people as Hogan was. Maybe it's because Hogan gave them more to chew on, with the mechanical details. If you tell people "Hey, folks, it isn't all that complicated, you just have to get a feel for it, very few real fundamentals, etc.," it seems like your instructional dollars aren't really going for anything.
@emncaity you have to confuse the masses so they buy more junk training aids and magazines though. it's all good for the pga, keeps their instructors busy. i tell you what though, it drives me absolutely bonkers to see people out on the range desperately trying to worry about little checkpoints in their full swing almost to the point where i just want to go up to them, hit their ball, and tell them "hey, if you don't really care so much, it's not a problem."
Seriously, that's what you see, isn't it? I see so many younger players lined up out on the range who've been raised on this "positions" idea, and they can hit all 16 or 35 of them, and you end up with lots of nice posing but lifeless shots, no feel for where the sweet spot is, no feel for distance control, and no sense of the actual motion behind it all. But gurus and book-writers get paid regardless.
@emncaity you just kinda turn back and turn right on through. have the rhythm and timing to give it some firepower at the bottom and you're all good. oh and maybe some talent and physicality helps.
But to say that "no one with any knowledge of Hogan said he had a great swing" is just wrong. You can say _you_ don't think he had a great swing and have reasons for saying so, but certainly a ton of first-rate teachers and great players who had "knowledge of Hogan" thought Hogan "had a great swing"--which, again, is not to say that it was flawless.
OTOH, if your point is just hyperbole about the fact that some people seem to make too much a god out of Hogan...I'd agree. He would too.
Silly. Of course there are players who are close to the quality of Hogan's swing. What they don't have his is mind; typically, with some notable exceptions, they're overfocused on "swing" and lack the strategic and scoring ability Hogan had.
Hogan also didn't care about outhitting anybody, esp. with irons. Almost any player is statistically more inaccurate with too much or not enough force. Hogan didn't care if he hit a 6-iron 160 while other guys were hitting 7 or 8. Listen to clubhouse conversations now: "What'd you hit on that last par 3?" "Eight." "Wow! That's strong!" Guy hit it a club and a half short of the hole on the green, or in the bunker, made 4, but all that matter is what he hit. 300 yds with driver, make 5.
yes, a perfect example being George Knudson. I happen to think Knudson's theories and techniques that are found in his book "The Natural Golf Swing" are the best, especially for the average to good player that finds so much golf instruction too complicated. Not to mention that he had one of the best swings of all time and was one of the best ball strikers.
Knudson - in the words of Nicklaus - had a "million dollar swing" but was a "10 cent putter". Best finish in major - 2nd in 1969.
the reason he isn't used as a model is,is he sometimes talked bollocks i'm afraid,he used to advocate using the arms and rists for power, when he himself had a massive shoulder and hip rotation and very active legs, but was seemingly unaware of this! there's a video on here where he's trying to tell a well built beginner not to use the power in his body, any teaching credibility is gone as far as i'm concerned at this point, where hogan had learnt the hardway and really understood
fradaja 8 months ago
@fradaja
Hmm. I think you're in a very small minority. Snead had a reputation as a first-rate teacher, one of the best ever, actually. You're making the same mistake that the typical "body release/body moves the arms" theorist does, which is to assume that if a guy talks about hands and arms for power, he must mean the body isn't involved. Not true at all. Check Snead's "Key Approach" book and you can't miss all he says about the importance of the torso and lower body...
emncaity 4 months ago
@emncaity does this refer to the time when after 4 duck-hooks off the tea, at wentworth, Hogan snapped "Sam will you put that goddam driver away" in which he duly did so!! also would you advise a beginner to use his arms and wrist's to strike a ball?? when this is the single most common fault with beginners? i believe that anyone can play golf to a decent standard! sam snead was an absolute natural with no clue as to how he did it! where Hogan new exactly what he was doing!!
fradaja 4 months ago
@fradaja
I've seen Ralph Mann make the same misguided criticisms of the "arms and hands" school. Guys like Snead, Toski, Flick, etc. will tell you every time that the rest of the body MUST be involved. It's not that hard to understand how these two apparently extreme views really are just two aspects of how people feel a swing. If you're athletic at all, and you try to throw a baseball 20 yards, you'll feel the swinging motion of your arm and the release of your hand, but...
emncaity 4 months ago
@emncaity sorry but this is contrary to what snead say's in another video,you can acheive extra clubhead speed by using the arms and wrist's but at a risk to accuracy!
fradaja 4 months ago
@fradaja
...your torso and legs will make a kind of gentle move to support the low-energy swing. But if you try to hit home plate from left field, nobody has to tell you to wind up your shoulders, step into the throw, unload in a big way from the ground up--but the whole point is again to get to the swing of the arm and snap of the hand, without which all that power generated in the trunk and legs is wasted. Some people feel it one way, some another. But what actually happens doesn't change.
emncaity 4 months ago
@emncaity velocity x mass=momentum it is momentum which sends a ball, or any object! the arms simply connect the object to the body,where the mass is try sitting in a chair and see how far you throw a ball?? then stand up and try.........i rest my case!
fradaja 4 months ago
@fradaja
I've seen people make mistakes both ways, but currently what I see much more often is the guy who drives the body, labors with his torso, etc., but has no swinging motion and no snap at the bottom of the arc, so you see this big heaving "big-muscle" motion and no power at all.
emncaity 4 months ago
@emncaity i am 5'7" and 160ibs and regulary outdrive guys much bigger than me i "NEVER" think about arms or hands i simply set my angles and turn not "lunge" as i see regularly, think about tiger's huge sweep,and why has he got the fastest hips in golf??? there nearly as fast as his shoulders!!! TORQUE!!! created by the mass of his very athletic form involving ever muscle from his feet up!
fradaja 4 months ago
@fradaja
I see this really often among young competitive players who are overtrained. All the parts look good, the "positions" look good, the turn looks trained, etc., but the shots are lifeless, and/or there's no sense for distance.
For Snead's part, he was famous for saying "turn and burn." No lifeless picking up the arms and dropping the club on the ball for him. As for Hogan, part of the problem is that modern theorists have overinterpreted and overelaborated on what he actually said.
emncaity 4 months ago
@emncaity B S
fradaja 4 months ago
Respond to this video... answer this one question honestly, have you ever tried to hit the ball softer and its gone further?
fradaja 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
MIKE AUSTIN WAS THE GREAT TEAHCES IN THE WORLD OF GOLF AND HE HIT THE GOLF BALL 515 YARD AT AGE 64, DAN SHAUGER LEARNED FROM THE BEST TEACHES AUSTIN, I HAD SEVERAL LESSON FROM DAN AND NOW I HIT MY GOLF BALL STRAIGHT DOWN LINE NOW AND HE HELP WITH MY SHORT GAME AND PUTTING, DAN HAS 2 BOOK AN 27 DVD aperfectswing THANK TO DAN I PLAY A BETTER AROUND OF GOLF NOW GREAT TEACHES
bigboycat1 1 year ago
style, folks, is what it's all about. make your swing your own. even if you absolutely love snead, couples (be still my heart), hogan, or tiger, you're still yourself. be yourself and get past all these mechanical thoughts and just figure out how to manage YOUR GAME around the course. the practice tee is for sorting out the kinks, the course is for playing.
dschultz6072 1 year ago
Snead has a great left hip movement from the top. Check out 22 to 26 sec. This is the "magic move".
FairwayJack 1 year ago
holy smokes, Snead and Hogan with "flaws" in their swings? Remember they were going against the big boys in the world and they delivered. Hogan and Snead, to me, had beautiful swings, Snead nearly always and Hogan in the fifties and later.
davidgee100 2 years ago
If the two best ball strikers ever were Moe Norman and Ben Hogan, whose swing could not be more different in appearance, then arguing over who has the best swing is pointless.
For where my body is right now, Shawn Clements swing is the one that I prefer. All of my joint/back issues went away and my dispersion rate with my irons is even less than it was with my old x-factor based swing.
bluejfk 2 years ago
No one with any knowledge of Hogan ever said he had a great swing. His grip was too strong, his arc too flat, and a bit stiff and not fluid and athletic like Snead's. However, Hogan did have a great repeating swing due to his incessant practice. And like all good ball strikers, Hogan was in the correct hitting position 30 inches before and after impact.
rappug 2 years ago
Both Hogan and Snead had flaws. A great swing doesn't require flawlessness, or there'd be no great ones. If you like smoothness and rhythm and a guy who doesn't get mired in the details, you like Snead. If you like a smaller guy who's figured out how plane works and how to add power and thrust to his swing without destroying path, plane, or the basic swing motion, you like Hogan.
emncaity 2 years ago
I absolutely love Snead and can't understand why he hasn't become at least as much a model for people as Hogan was. Maybe it's because Hogan gave them more to chew on, with the mechanical details. If you tell people "Hey, folks, it isn't all that complicated, you just have to get a feel for it, very few real fundamentals, etc.," it seems like your instructional dollars aren't really going for anything.
emncaity 2 years ago 4
@emncaity you have to confuse the masses so they buy more junk training aids and magazines though. it's all good for the pga, keeps their instructors busy. i tell you what though, it drives me absolutely bonkers to see people out on the range desperately trying to worry about little checkpoints in their full swing almost to the point where i just want to go up to them, hit their ball, and tell them "hey, if you don't really care so much, it's not a problem."
dschultz6072 1 year ago
@dschultz6072
Seriously, that's what you see, isn't it? I see so many younger players lined up out on the range who've been raised on this "positions" idea, and they can hit all 16 or 35 of them, and you end up with lots of nice posing but lifeless shots, no feel for where the sweet spot is, no feel for distance control, and no sense of the actual motion behind it all. But gurus and book-writers get paid regardless.
emncaity 9 months ago
@emncaity you just kinda turn back and turn right on through. have the rhythm and timing to give it some firepower at the bottom and you're all good. oh and maybe some talent and physicality helps.
dschultz6072 9 months ago
@emncaity It is the best swing to copy
DASH1ful 5 months ago
But to say that "no one with any knowledge of Hogan said he had a great swing" is just wrong. You can say _you_ don't think he had a great swing and have reasons for saying so, but certainly a ton of first-rate teachers and great players who had "knowledge of Hogan" thought Hogan "had a great swing"--which, again, is not to say that it was flawless.
OTOH, if your point is just hyperbole about the fact that some people seem to make too much a god out of Hogan...I'd agree. He would too.
emncaity 2 years ago 5
well said my friend. you hit the nail right on the head.
iferraro 2 years ago
no way hogan had the best swing ever known in the history of the game, no one is even close to hogans swing in this decade of golfers
dukesygolfer 2 years ago
Silly. Of course there are players who are close to the quality of Hogan's swing. What they don't have his is mind; typically, with some notable exceptions, they're overfocused on "swing" and lack the strategic and scoring ability Hogan had.
emncaity 2 years ago
Hogan also didn't care about outhitting anybody, esp. with irons. Almost any player is statistically more inaccurate with too much or not enough force. Hogan didn't care if he hit a 6-iron 160 while other guys were hitting 7 or 8. Listen to clubhouse conversations now: "What'd you hit on that last par 3?" "Eight." "Wow! That's strong!" Guy hit it a club and a half short of the hole on the green, or in the bunker, made 4, but all that matter is what he hit. 300 yds with driver, make 5.
emncaity 2 years ago
yes, a perfect example being George Knudson. I happen to think Knudson's theories and techniques that are found in his book "The Natural Golf Swing" are the best, especially for the average to good player that finds so much golf instruction too complicated. Not to mention that he had one of the best swings of all time and was one of the best ball strikers.
Knudson - in the words of Nicklaus - had a "million dollar swing" but was a "10 cent putter". Best finish in major - 2nd in 1969.
iferraro 2 years ago
i think Snead had a better Swing than Hogan - it looks so relaxed!
heisagoalie 3 years ago
Totally agree
Noallegiance 3 years ago
Damn Poetry in Motion, pure artistry
brown547 3 years ago
Just incredible, duffy. Great stuff.
emncaity 3 years ago