I can understand your position though but he's speaking about Islam in Europe and when the 1st immigrants from muslim countries arrived they were not religious and certainly not politically religious , it s a fairly recent movement 10-15 years old - most of the extremists in Europe were actually born there, that would be why he links it with immigration...I wish you guys were heard on a wider scale ,I realize one thing that can defeat Islam is laughter-youu need a Rabelais , Voltaire, etc....
Geert Wilders never said he wanted to throw immigrants into the sea! You are confusing with what arab countries woved to day at the creation of israel: " push it into the sea" . Precisely Wilders said : that the Quran should have the same status as Mein Kampf as it s a direct incitation to violence , murder and hatred (objectively true even though it's "religious") and therefore should be banned , he won't throw already existing immigrants out, just not allow new ones from muslim countries in .
That's stupid. What's the point in bringing wtwo people who present the same opinion? Instead you should have brought people who disargree woith those two and to confront them all.
@PersoAryanism You know, I support Iranian Atheists, too. I'm an Atheist, and I'm Arab, too. If you're a real atheist, you would've respect other people. "Generalization is an indicator of ignorance". Again, I'm Arab, but I'm not a savage, nor are all Arabs or Iranians.
Take it easy w/ the 14 people who thumbsed you up.
@volgaize I wish there where more ppl like you.. We respect each other, u can generalize but not due to what ppl are, but rather what ppl do.. Thats an important difference. Arabs with no religion would rid the world of a cancer.. So i wish u all the luck i can give!
Criticism of Islam never can be racism. Should i haved missed something in biology or do i change my ..."race"... when ic change my believe? Especially cause the term "race" is outdated in bilology for decades.
Right but is lam is racist : anti semitic and misogynic 2.191 . And slay them wherever ye find them , and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out , for persecution is worse than slaughter . And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there , but if they attack you ( there ) then slay them . Such is the reward of disbelievers .
@bashoitzing It shouldn't apply to "believes." Beliefs are not something like skin color, which you can't alter and did not choose. Beliefs are something that people willfully adopt, and destructive beliefs should be challenged wherever they're found.
@yerk3 Claiming? The written word has alot of heroes and Geert Wilders is one of them. Geert never had any problem with ppl that where not muslim, now u understand..
@richter75 Yes, claiming. Geert Wilders is no hero of the written word. He may claim to support free speech, but he's really only in support of the speech he agrees with.
@yerk3 "he's really only in support of the speech he agrees with" .. Yes, like we all do. But he still respect the right to have free speech, u dont need to respect views.. Its kinda simple.
Why does Maryam Namazie claiming that Wilders wants to throw immigrants into the sea?? When and where did he say that? One way or the other, Wilders is the only politician who managed to make enough pressure on Dutch legislation to make some significant changes on immigration law.
Making changes on immigration law is something, and criticising other people's belief is something else. Geert can think, express his opinion, and suggest solutions to the immigants' problems, if he thinks there are problems, but he can't limit people's freedom to believe what they want, and worship the God they believe in.
If a certain group of people (no matter if indigenous or foreign and regardless of the source of their persuasions) seeks to violate the constitution and human rights with their beliefs, it's not only the right, it's even the duty of every decent politician to limit people in these kind of beliefs and persuasions
I agree with you, but we should not judge a religion or a culture by the behavior and misunderstanding of some. Committing a suicide in Islam is forbidden, and sends the person to hell. Look at how many idiots committing a suicide in the name of Islam. Wearing a scarf does not harm the society or anybody. Why make it illegal? However, covering women's face, which is extreme not required by Islam, can be dangerous and made illegal by law. If they don't like it, they should leave
What I mean is; why do we criticise other's religion and culture without understanding it? Why do we have to make every good and bad Muslim mad by passing stupid judgements. Europe is free to make the rules and regulations they wish to protect their people and societies. Why certain politician chooses to talk nonsesnse about something he doesn't know or understand, and be hostile to huge number of people, instead of getting busy finding the right rules to protect the society?
@falkhalili Who judges what people understand about a certain subject or not? Insiders are often blinded by their brainwashed beliefs. Outsiders are often the most objective
@DreamFreedom1 , Your reply was short. There are points in my posting you didn't answer. However, from the way some outsiders criticize Islam, we can tell that these people have not been thorough before they passed their judgment. There are many people from their societies converting to Islam. The only reason I can see for these two different attitudes is that some study Islam objectively and understand it and some are being shallow and biased. Therefore they are not convincing.
I'm not saying much cos I don't see no point in it and that's my freedom. It's a senseless discussion, because everything that you say could well be turned the other way around. Someone who is "in love" with his religion is blinded too, there are many people who re-convert from islam to their own religion later on (75% in the US e.g.), and many muslims who become atheists or secretly convert to another religion. This could go on and on and I'm tired of it. Good night!
All I am saying to YOU is it's not upon YOU to jude whether someone is right! There are others, also insiders and scientists who agree. Who tells you that YOU are right? This is typical mindset of a religious person. There is no point in the two of us discussing any further, thank you!
The UN should never, and never have limited the human rights by saving faith. Humanity is above faith always and freedom of experssion is above faith either. I want a secular state. With seperation of church and state in goverment, law and education. The last is very important cause childeren are brainwashed and molested spirituel of physical by religion and dogma.
Whatever you think of Fitna, that is their right to freedom of expression. Oppression is not the answer to getting rid of such a view, it is not an out of sight out of mind matter. If you really dislike the view taken by Geert Wilders, then work to change people's minds, not stop films like this.
They are not a threat to Islam. Radical Muslims are.
maar ik ben hier niet om het hele partijplan te ontleden, dat kan je bij elke partij wel doen. ik wil slecht de ongelovelijke discriminerende en kortzichtige visies van de PVV aan het licht brengen.
Deels vind ik dat ook maar je beseft toch wel dat het voor extreme slachtoffers zoals ik een soort houvast geeft dat er iemand is die aan de bel trekt. Van mij hoeft niemand het land uit en ik haat ook niemand maar het meest irrationele op deze wereld vind ik geloof en daarom zie ik de islam niet als een toegevoegde waarde.
Mee eens, behalve het laatste punt. Radicalisering moet echt tegengewerkt worden en wat mij betreft ook met christendom of andere religies. Ik zie niet in waarom het laatste punt een korte termijn oplossing is want daarmee geef je een duidelijk signaal af en weten imams dat ze hier niet welkom zijn met extreme preken.
Klopt maar dan moet je je de vraag stellen waar je ze liever hebt, hier of bv in Iran of Marokko, dan kies ik voor daar. Het andere punt, de andere religies hebben we op dit moment weinig last van in Nederland dus als er een nieuw geloof komt is het logisch dat daar meer kritiek op wordt geuit dan de al ingewortelde religies, juist door het verschil.
Ik snap je punt maar vraag het is aan 10 mensen om je heen wat zij er van vinden. Waarschijnlijk zullen 7 of 8 mensen niet blij zijn met een meerderheid van allochtonen.
geert is paraniod populist who feeds of the general public's lack of understanding on foreign cultures and their "they took our jobs!' fear, hence he's also anti polish. the man probably won't do anything good if he gets into government. but people jsut keep "supporting" because he's such a media and Parliament underdog, it's shining example of the stupidity of the masses. i don't hate wilders because of his critisizms of islam, i hate him because of the stupid, paranoid ways he outs them.
You should be ashamed for your username! ' a shining example of the stupidity of the masses' Ga is effe wat feiten checken man voordat je hier onzin loopt te verkondigen. Wake up and see the bigger picture!
he, ik herken een populist als ik er een zie. wilders scheert alle moslims zowat over 1 kam, maar zegt niks over de andere religies. hij blaast een stel probleem marrokanen op en doet dat niet bij een stel probleem autochtonen. hij wint stemmen omdat veel mensen ontevreden zijn met de gevestigde partijen en dan PVV stemmen (niet alle) omdat ze die grote willen dwarsbomen. fitna was een grote quotemine en oproep op emotie. de man wil af van de euro, en een betere EU. nee, ik zie het plaatje wel.
Ben het zeker deels met je eens. Fitna was zeker gebaseerd op emotie en de euro mag van mij blijven en de coffeshops ook. Maar dat hij een stel probleem marokkanen opblaast is gewoon niet juist want kijk maar naar de cijfers en hoeveel er bekend zijn bij de politie. Dit is dus gewoon een probleem en dat moet aangepakt worden. En ik denk dat als je je een beetje verdiept in de islam dat je erachter komt dat het meer een ideologie is en de andere religies niet.
"islam dat je erachter komt dat het meer een ideologie is en de andere religies niet. '
nee, evenveel als elke andere religie, we hebben er in het seculier europe alleen minder last van, ga jij maar eens naar the bible belt in de VS en Israel. elke religie kent zijn fundementalisten. en elke religie heeft diep bijgedragen aan de vorming van culturen, kijk maar eens om je heen in minder seculiere landen.
Klopt helemaal wat je zegt maar het gaat voor mij nu om Nederland. VS is ook niet te vergelijken met Nederland dus ik kijk nu puur naar hoe de religies zich hier uiten.
thinkppl. En jij wauwelt gedachteloos een paar verwarde sociologen na! Xenophobie en banenverlies! Laat mij niet lachen! Ik woon in de binnenstad en heb nog nooit iets gehoord van die twee ! Het gedrag van die "paar Marrokanen" EN Turken en het totale gebrek aan enige opvoeding, ook bij nu pas 5 jarigen, is waar je mensen over hoort klagen in werkelijkheid! En de meeste die klagen maken echt wel een verschil tussen tuig en normale burgers ongeacht hun afkomst! DAT is de realiteit!
En de meeste zijn geen blindelinge volgelingen van Wilders maar gewoon blij dat tenminste EEN politicus deze punten aankaart! Ook al zegt hij ook andere dingen. Ben jij het soms blindelings eens met alles wat "jouw" partij voor staat dat je aan neemt dat anderen ook zo dom zijn?
Geert Wilders was convicted by his own country for the crime for his words and this movie (which are spot on).
WAKE UP, ATHEIST. Get off Jesus Christ and conflating Judeo Christianity with ISLAM. One is evil and the other is Jesus. We have a battle for 10-400 yrs. We need Jesus.
Not all muslims are terrorist, but most terrorist are Muslim, driven by the QURAN. The BIBLE is not the QURAN. Don't be an ignorant ass taking old testament out of context.
WAKE UP MUSLIMS! what you believe is evil and leads to hate, murder and war. Islam was created by satan to steal you away from the truth that Jesus Christ is the real god of love, peace and forgivness. Jesus calmed a storm with a command, healed every sickness, walked on water, resurected from the dead and much more. If You still don't believe he is God, your blind, foolish and will burn when you pass on.
Globalization can not work unless almost all of humanity or better is on the same bloody ideological page, & people everywhere evolve at different pages. The problem with the Islamic ideology is that it can not stand up against individualism, free will, liberty, freedom of expression, and criticism...let alone that religion/theism can't hold water.
Though I never actually set out to debate communism, so my straw man was more accidental - I try not to make them. :) Anyway the political spectrum is the reason why Maryam is criticisng Wilders - just thought I'd answer your question.
If Wilders was instead a passionate moderate and put up the same exact film, would it still be touted as anti-immigration? I think these people are looking too much into his character instead of what the film is revealing, at least to a non-UK like me. Living in America, I see absolutely nothing being done by moderate Muslims against the extremists. That it takes another extremist of sorts to speak out so vocally against the atrocities being made just strikes me as deliciously ironic.
Maryam is explaining that Wilders is missing the point - Wilders does not understand that the people of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan etc. also need help, and that going back to a conservative Christian Europe with nationalist anti-immigration is a huge step backwards.
Maryam and I, as communists, also want a secular world, and we know that the fundamentalism itself, not all immigration, must be stopped worldwide.
I wouldn't say that Wilders is a racist, but he and his party aren't progressive.
"going back to a conservative Christian Europe with nationalist anti-immigration is a huge step backwards."
The problem is that some (I dare say many) of those people who flee from the oppression of Islamic countries, when reachings our land of freedom decide to try and make our land pretty much the same as the hellhole they escaped from. And wilders didn't say anything about total anti-immigration, just a halt for some years because frankly it is out of control atm in many countries.
I agree that it's out of control, though I feel that it is the fault of those politicians who think that all ideas are equal (yeah, thanks a lot Tony Blair and David Milliband - two people who don't seem to understand that the left is about sensible progressive secularism, not a religious free for all).
I'm definitely the opposite to Geert Wilders on the political spectrum, but I say this:
Let him say what he wants to say! I would never vote for him - but he can say his views if he wants.
The founder of a U.S. Muslim television network has been arrested and charged with murdering his wife by beheading her, the network's Web site and local media reported.Muzzammil Hassan, founder and CEO of Buffalo, N.Y.-based Bridges TV which launched in 2004 with a mission to show Muslims in a more positive light, she wanted a divorce
I agree with the majority of the opinions expressed by the two panelists. But as far as the film itself is concerned, from a European's point of view I can easily see the frustrations experienced by many Europeans where there is so much political correctness and lack of government support to stop the spread of radical Islam and the film expresses those feelings. Although present in a way, I therefore don't see this film's major purpose being anti immigrant.
1. wilders never said he wanted to throw immigrants into the sea. (nasser said about the jews though).
2. despising "wilders film" is anyones freedom of choice here, yet when i watched "his film" for the 1st time, there was hardly anything new in it i hadnt seen, read before. and surely this was not some anti islämic propaganda, on the contrary, it was "islämofascist propaganda" against the "west".
3. isläm is at least as political as christianity (or judaism) were centuries ago. remembering the inter-european religious wars? simplified; for example the result of those developments was the constitution of the US.
4. →6:55+ this is exactly what we all (i assume) here are against, including the controversial dutch politician and the discussion participants.
yet again, i dont understand how the participants came to most of their "anti-wilders" conclusions. perhaps he is less secular and more right wing when compared to this panel and some kind of a centrist european position, however when compared to the US and especially middle east he would still be considered moderate.
the bottom line is, if someone seeks asylum from oppression, they will hardly try to impose the same conditions they have escaped from, on their new societies...
How does the political islam get into Europe? By immigration from islamic countries. How do you stop the political islam in Europe? By stopping the immigration from islamic countries.
Why shoud Europe allow political islam to grow in Europe? It's not Europes responsibility to solve problems of political islam.
mariam namazie must be executed and beheaded for insulting islam! she is definately a bitch ....she does not know that europe is going to be ruled by islam..
i think the white people of Europe are kinda tired of wars since they got lots of it in the past, i think they are somewhat enlightened people and learned from history, I wonder how long the terrorist provocation can turn them back to the great warrior type people as their ancestors were
You want to attack Islam in a peaceful manner? GET OFF YOUR OIL ADDICTION. Their deserts have no value without oil. Abject poverty and starvation will destroy their threat. Everytime you fill up your car with gasoline you're pouring money into Islam. Look at Dubai. It's spectacular but there's something seriously wrong with the situation if you think about it. YOUR money built Dubai.
Islam is a plague of the mind. Just like any other religion, only its amazing how much more caustic this one is. We can only hope that Islamic culture gets penetrated by modernity and that it will slowly erode their bronze age beliefs before they impinge upon the freedoms of modern civilization.
Can you do us a favor and go get in a bike accident or something? I think your organs would be put to much better use keeping someone with more than 2 ounces of brain matter alive.
I've stated my opposition to Geert, as well as my opposition to islam fundamentalism itself. I will never fall into the trap of nationalists, fascists, racists and extremists of all kind who use the fear of islam to justify their agenda, or to gain power & popularity.Terrorists are a threat, not muslims, not ethnic groups. Extreme-right wingers are a threat too, and we are not forced to help them in order to fight the good fight...
itsbizbuz, I think your definition of the term "threat" is somewhat limited, in that you appear to use it in direct reference to a physical terrorist attack. Wilders' opinion regarding Islam is completely, 100% justified. The "threat" that Islam brings to the Netherlands, isn't merely the fact that it is a twisted ideology, it is also a battle of demographics. The Dutch Muslims and Muslim migrants respectively, are giving birth at a far greater pace than Dutch nationals are.
bettySwollox : So babies are a threat just by being born muslims or from extranational parents ? What do you propose ? Sterilize their parents or just gas the babies ? I'm from France, the country with the most important arab, muslim, jewish communities of Europe, and it's not that bad. You talk about twisted ideologies, how about nationalism, fascism, and other religions ? You think the catholic church is not twisted ? Do you want to forbid religion ? And impose eugenics ?
I think he/she means they are 'born into the faith' - they didn't choose it when they were young. That maybe true, but they have the choice to leave the religion when they are old enough and left home - there is a HUGE amount of information out there, if they remain with Islam knowing all the hate and bigotry in the religion, then quite frankly, they're as guilty as the extremists.
itsbizbuz I actually had a second part to my argument. I don't know where it went? I posted it, but it's disappeared, either way, it appears as though you have now taken advantage of this fact, by completely and utterly misrepresenting my last post. Therefore, I will post it again, and then I will deal with your latest reply. (previous comment continued...) This poses a number of problems on a number of factors, such as benefit claims, education, jobs, housing and of course bigger communities
(cont.).....these communities cut themselves off from Dutch society, many of which can not even speak Dutch after living here for 10 years. The education of children within these communities suffers, which in turn results in Dutch society, as a whole, suffering too.
itsbizbus. Now I will respond to your comment - which began and ended with an absurd straw man argument, which I will ignore - where you compared France's multicultrualism to the rest of Europe.
Firstly, comments like "the most important.....communities.." and "not that bad" are very ambiguous, and should be avoided in a conversation. But what is your point here anyway?
You have ended your comment with a number of questions that have been plucked completely out of thin air. Why stop there?
itsbizbuz I'm sure you could make up another few hundred questions (which isn't an argument by the way) and post them to me, which I would be happy to answer in another debate, in the meantime, we were talking about Islam in the Netherlands, and not about which ideologies I believe to be twisted or not, as that list is possibly endless.
Ignorant men love Islam because they can claim power within Sharia law. They can rape women, marry children, murder and force regular people to give them undue respect. Outside Islam, in the real World, those ignorant men would just be stupid men that wear dresses. Nobody wants a violent man who justifies beating women. Nobody wants a man who thinks marrying and raping children is acceptable. In the real World those men would be in PRISON. Islam is evil and must be banished. Islam is a disease.
To me this vidoe just reinforces my belief that 90% of humanity is sick and tired of this whole, My religion vs. Your religion BS. Most people just want to live, it's the minority of bloodthirsty self righteous zealots who want death and rapture. Islam is not alone in this, how often have you heard accept Jesus or burn in hell, it's exactly the same thing.
Sharia Law brings hell to earth for women. ie: Blocking exits as school girls are trying to escape a burning building because they didnt have their faces covered. Cutting off the heads of 3 teen girls on their way to school. Killing teachers in Iraq who were trying to teach girls. Attacking a missionary school in India killing 6 students. How is threatning hell and actually implementing hell on earth the same thing? The Quran gives men in Islam the authority to rule women with an iron fist.
I think you're right, Ensureqwerty, it's not the same thing. Christianity had its hay day of enforced belief up until 300 or so years ago and has been "gradually" losing its influence since. Even now, the fight with Christianity is not over. Islamic countries, however, are just now entering the equivalent to the western worlds 17th century enlightenment period with most Muslims still holding fervent beliefs in their stories and understandings of the nature of reality. The fight has just begun.
Islam is buying it's way into the international communities through funding from Saudi Arabia. In the past, Islam was just another bullshit copycat religion from the desert and it only hurt those involved. It was stuck in the desert. Now Saudi Arabia has all the money to spread Islam, to wage a systematic campaign of invasion and demographic war against the rest of the World. With all the funding needed to buy politicians, build mosques and import Islamic fascists, Islam will rule the World.
I believe you're correct, kaduisaui, and the secular western world must remain very vigilant in their fight against this backward religion's encroachment into the west. We're already seeing both countries and the U.N. cowtowing to Muslim sentiments regarding criticism of their religion or even the publication of images of their so-called prophet. I would like to see annual marches of people fighting against things like Sharia law with protesters carrying banners with pictures of Mohammed.
I agree 1140Cecile. We are already slaves to Israel. The American Government will do anything for Israel because the Jewish lobby pumps so much money into each politician's pocket. The same thing will happen with Islam and Muslim money from Saudi Arabia. Soon there will be mega mosques everywhere and Islamic prayers will be mandatory in school. What ever happened to the separation between church and sate? The violent religion of peace invades then cries victim and discrimination. Sharia rules!
Yes, well we just can't keep sitting back and keep accepting politically correct legislation. While I'm Canadian, I think that the American Declaration of Independence and Consitution are two relatively great documents that could form the basis of a world system. Thomas Jefferson recognized the evils inherent in religion and worked to ensure that religion would never hold sway in American society. Now we are more and more one world and we should be championing such principles internationally.
I'm not denying that those things happen, but ask yourself this: does every Islamic man want this kind of thing to happen or have a small number of extremists hijacked the legal system and enforced their own ideals? Sharia law is evil, but I do not believe that it reflects the true nature of Islam, just as I do not believe the Inquistition reflected the true nature of Christianity.
Evil people do evil things regardless of religion; for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
It's not just the Inquistion that was the problem with Christianity over the centuries. Whenever Christian countries invaded a new territory they would compel people to convert to their religion. They held back the general knowledge of all science that didn't conform with their teachings regarding creation and geo-centrism. They punished philosophers who dared offer alternative views on the nature of reality. Christianity, like all Abrahamic religions, is an extremely negative world force.
The one and only, and I mean the one and only thing that America has over the any other country I've heard of is freedom of speech, even though cops tend to not know what the fuck it means and will arrest you pretyy much just for looking at something in a way they don't like..
What a great 4 minutes of straight common sense from the woman. I could not have put it better myself. I am so sick to death of minority religions and cultures utilizing Governments to push their pathetic victim stances to gain power. How blind are Governments! The freedom to question and criticize is critical to run a democracy. No one has the right to be free of criticism in a democracy!
Great comment! I agree with you 300% Criticism is harmless and promotes good ideas and dialogue. Mandating and limiting what people can say towards any topic is effectively stopping progress much like holding back the entire university from graduating because there was a percentage of students that did not learn their curriculum.
Certainly criticism of government can also strengthen it as well as it will be able to adapt to new and hopefully better ideas and procedures.
Totally agree. Religion is a fucking disease that needs to be kept out of the public. A personal belief is fine, but when they start demanding rights (and use the discriminated-minority-card to get it) is when I feel real hatred towards all religions.
Exactly. Well put. It's like the school prayer BS. Kids can pray at recess and lunch if they want....oh the poor decriminated against Christians, with their poor martar Jesus...we should all feel bad for them and never discipline them when thay act up...
Imagine No Religion too,...John Lennon
Religion is thought control, tyranny, and a false sense of community/family
The court decision has increased Wilders' popularity. A new poll gives the Freedom Party 20 seats in parliament, as against the nine it currently holds. Whatever the outcome, Wilders' notoriety is likely to increase. If convicted, many will view him as a martyr, in light of increasing evidence that the greatest threat to humanity - including to moderate and dissident Muslims - indeed comes from the world of Islam.
If Wilders is acquitted, many will begin to repeat his statements. In either case the Amsterdam court may have opened a Pandora's box of a yet-unknown size.
PiroNiro, I actually think that "the court's decision to start a criminal prosecution for the incitement to hatred and discrimination", is fantastic! I mean, think about it. How far will the lawyers have to go to build their defence for Wilders? Not very far at all, they simply have to pick up a copy of the Qur'an and recite the disgusting passages from within it, finally exposing Islam for what it actually is.
eg: The lawyers could quote Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi of Al-Azhar University in Cairo, the highest-ranking cleric in the Sunni world, who has come out in favor of suicide bombings. Tantawi has also called Jews the descendants of apes and pigs. Only the choice of animals differs from Nazi language; they preferred rats and vermin. Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, living in Qatar, is a spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood who has approved suicide bombings.
The Quran regards women as social inferiors and enshrines this inferiority in inheritance, divorce rights and status as a witness. Sharia law is at least consistent with the Quran in this regard.
I think the criticism of Wilders agenda and most of the film is correct, he is after all a rightwing fucktard, However lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Fitna does expose some truths with regards to fundies and their agenda!
creationismisstupid, you are right, Wilders is right wing, but far right wing? When compared to his former party's position, yes, I woud agree, he was certainly somewhat more to the right. But how far are you going to the right? And what "racist programme" are you talking about? Yes, he is a Nationalist, yes he has his own view on immigration and multiculturalism, but how is that racist?
BettySwollox: It would be racist, if you were to simply have a black and white policy towards a particular creed, ethnic group or religion. For example, if he were to adopt a policy that said "stop all Morrocoans from entering the country", as oppposed to simply evaluating candidates based on merit, that would be fairly racist. It's your ability to differentiate within groups.
whenindoubtdo, thanks for you comment. Yes indeed you are correct, if Wilders was hell-bent on singling out a particular nation - such as Morroco - and refusing them entry to the Netherlands - based on their race - would be a position based on race. However, Islam is not a race of people. It is firstly an ideology, it is a law based on canonic principles, it is a form of government, and lastly it is a religion. Its ideology should be criticized, but to do so is racist? I don't get it?
@Betty: Wilder advocates a policy of zero immigration from Muslim nations. That to me is fairly racist as it doesn't differentiate between people.
And of course, criticising isn't racism, however you and I know that criticising Islam is sometimes a mask for racism or zenophobic feelings. (Just take a look at Youtube).
I can understand your position though but he's speaking about Islam in Europe and when the 1st immigrants from muslim countries arrived they were not religious and certainly not politically religious , it s a fairly recent movement 10-15 years old - most of the extremists in Europe were actually born there, that would be why he links it with immigration...I wish you guys were heard on a wider scale ,I realize one thing that can defeat Islam is laughter-youu need a Rabelais , Voltaire, etc....
Snutih 4 months ago
Geert Wilders never said he wanted to throw immigrants into the sea! You are confusing with what arab countries woved to day at the creation of israel: " push it into the sea" . Precisely Wilders said : that the Quran should have the same status as Mein Kampf as it s a direct incitation to violence , murder and hatred (objectively true even though it's "religious") and therefore should be banned , he won't throw already existing immigrants out, just not allow new ones from muslim countries in .
Snutih 4 months ago
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Snutih 4 months ago
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Wilders = Made in Israel!
A useful and willing idiot pushing Europe into a clash of civilizations!
alecrebel 9 months ago
That's stupid. What's the point in bringing wtwo people who present the same opinion? Instead you should have brought people who disargree woith those two and to confront them all.
anoyanbanlor 11 months ago
Go Iranian Atheists!
We support you 100% against savages (Arabs) (creators of Islam).
PersoAryanism 1 year ago 18
@PersoAryanism You know, I support Iranian Atheists, too. I'm an Atheist, and I'm Arab, too. If you're a real atheist, you would've respect other people. "Generalization is an indicator of ignorance". Again, I'm Arab, but I'm not a savage, nor are all Arabs or Iranians.
Take it easy w/ the 14 people who thumbsed you up.
volgaize 9 months ago
@volgaize you sound like some sort of nazi , sand nigger.when islam is crushed all arabs will be shot too
scotlander1 9 months ago
@volgaize I wish there where more ppl like you.. We respect each other, u can generalize but not due to what ppl are, but rather what ppl do.. Thats an important difference. Arabs with no religion would rid the world of a cancer.. So i wish u all the luck i can give!
richter75 8 months ago
Comment removed
PersoAryanism 1 year ago
She is one of the Heroes of our time!!!
broken1nail 1 year ago
So rare to here these things out loud, and form a woman on top of it all!
That is one brave woman.
johndifull 1 year ago
What an excellent video.
AtheistInfinity 1 year ago
God is Gooder than Hell
swvaoutlaws 1 year ago
@swvaoutlaws Both are make-believe.
yerk3 11 months ago
watch my valentines video! ^_^
juntaon 1 year ago
Maryam your doing excellent work,keep it up,your a star.
asifmasih1 2 years ago
All hail Geert Wilders!!
ssukhwal 2 years ago 2
She used "New World Order"... oh my duh.
8DX 2 years ago
I'm somewhere in between. I do think Wilders has his own agenda but I think the ex muslims are wrong in saying Wilders is not against Islam.
ceejaywt 2 years ago
Criticism of Islam never can be racism. Should i haved missed something in biology or do i change my ..."race"... when ic change my believe? Especially cause the term "race" is outdated in bilology for decades.
bowman2061 2 years ago
Right but is lam is racist : anti semitic and misogynic 2.191 . And slay them wherever ye find them , and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out , for persecution is worse than slaughter . And fight not with them at the Inviolable Place of Worship until they first attack you there , but if they attack you ( there ) then slay them . Such is the reward of disbelievers .
valmont2044 2 years ago
@bowman2061
The word racism isn't only used for discrimination against races but also certain groups/countries/believes
bashoitzing 1 year ago
@bashoitzing Ofcourse it is used for those but that's because the people who do that don't know what the word means.
byteresistor 1 year ago
@bashoitzing It shouldn't apply to "believes." Beliefs are not something like skin color, which you can't alter and did not choose. Beliefs are something that people willfully adopt, and destructive beliefs should be challenged wherever they're found.
yerk3 11 months ago
Muslims are not worth getting angry or demonstrative. They are just a bunch of retards playing with small bombs. Nuke'em all.
BlackMetalWarewolf 2 years ago
Islam is playing the race card and they are not even a race.
She's 100% right ... they play the poor pitiful muslim.
Don't fall for that crap!
TheDubiousAtheist 2 years ago 17
@TheDubiousAtheist And people like Geert Wilders play right into their hands, by claiming to be against Islam, but really being against immigrants.
yerk3 11 months ago
@yerk3 Claiming? The written word has alot of heroes and Geert Wilders is one of them. Geert never had any problem with ppl that where not muslim, now u understand..
richter75 8 months ago
@richter75 Yes, claiming. Geert Wilders is no hero of the written word. He may claim to support free speech, but he's really only in support of the speech he agrees with.
yerk3 8 months ago
@yerk3 "he's really only in support of the speech he agrees with" .. Yes, like we all do. But he still respect the right to have free speech, u dont need to respect views.. Its kinda simple.
richter75 8 months ago
@richter75 No, he's not respecting other's right to free speech. He wants to limit Muslims' freedom of speech.
yerk3 8 months ago
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@yerk3 No he dont. Give me one example? You cant, can you?
richter75 8 months ago
Why does Maryam Namazie claiming that Wilders wants to throw immigrants into the sea?? When and where did he say that? One way or the other, Wilders is the only politician who managed to make enough pressure on Dutch legislation to make some significant changes on immigration law.
DreamFreedom1 2 years ago
Making changes on immigration law is something, and criticising other people's belief is something else. Geert can think, express his opinion, and suggest solutions to the immigants' problems, if he thinks there are problems, but he can't limit people's freedom to believe what they want, and worship the God they believe in.
falkhalili 1 year ago
If a certain group of people (no matter if indigenous or foreign and regardless of the source of their persuasions) seeks to violate the constitution and human rights with their beliefs, it's not only the right, it's even the duty of every decent politician to limit people in these kind of beliefs and persuasions
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
@DreamFreedom1 ,
I agree with you, but we should not judge a religion or a culture by the behavior and misunderstanding of some. Committing a suicide in Islam is forbidden, and sends the person to hell. Look at how many idiots committing a suicide in the name of Islam. Wearing a scarf does not harm the society or anybody. Why make it illegal? However, covering women's face, which is extreme not required by Islam, can be dangerous and made illegal by law. If they don't like it, they should leave
falkhalili 1 year ago
@DreamFreedom1 ,
What I mean is; why do we criticise other's religion and culture without understanding it? Why do we have to make every good and bad Muslim mad by passing stupid judgements. Europe is free to make the rules and regulations they wish to protect their people and societies. Why certain politician chooses to talk nonsesnse about something he doesn't know or understand, and be hostile to huge number of people, instead of getting busy finding the right rules to protect the society?
falkhalili 1 year ago
@falkhalili Who judges what people understand about a certain subject or not? Insiders are often blinded by their brainwashed beliefs. Outsiders are often the most objective
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
@DreamFreedom1
@DreamFreedom1 , Your reply was short. There are points in my posting you didn't answer. However, from the way some outsiders criticize Islam, we can tell that these people have not been thorough before they passed their judgment. There are many people from their societies converting to Islam. The only reason I can see for these two different attitudes is that some study Islam objectively and understand it and some are being shallow and biased. Therefore they are not convincing.
falkhalili 1 year ago
I'm not saying much cos I don't see no point in it and that's my freedom. It's a senseless discussion, because everything that you say could well be turned the other way around. Someone who is "in love" with his religion is blinded too, there are many people who re-convert from islam to their own religion later on (75% in the US e.g.), and many muslims who become atheists or secretly convert to another religion. This could go on and on and I'm tired of it. Good night!
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
All I am saying to YOU is it's not upon YOU to jude whether someone is right! There are others, also insiders and scientists who agree. Who tells you that YOU are right? This is typical mindset of a religious person. There is no point in the two of us discussing any further, thank you!
DreamFreedom1 1 year ago
The UN should never, and never have limited the human rights by saving faith. Humanity is above faith always and freedom of experssion is above faith either. I want a secular state. With seperation of church and state in goverment, law and education. The last is very important cause childeren are brainwashed and molested spirituel of physical by religion and dogma.
RoadlessPath 2 years ago 2
Whatever you think of Fitna, that is their right to freedom of expression. Oppression is not the answer to getting rid of such a view, it is not an out of sight out of mind matter. If you really dislike the view taken by Geert Wilders, then work to change people's minds, not stop films like this.
They are not a threat to Islam. Radical Muslims are.
m0ufin 2 years ago 2
maar ik ben hier niet om het hele partijplan te ontleden, dat kan je bij elke partij wel doen. ik wil slecht de ongelovelijke discriminerende en kortzichtige visies van de PVV aan het licht brengen.
thinkppl 2 years ago
Deels vind ik dat ook maar je beseft toch wel dat het voor extreme slachtoffers zoals ik een soort houvast geeft dat er iemand is die aan de bel trekt. Van mij hoeft niemand het land uit en ik haat ook niemand maar het meest irrationele op deze wereld vind ik geloof en daarom zie ik de islam niet als een toegevoegde waarde.
teeuwentv 2 years ago
"een soort houvast geeft dat er iemand is die aan de bel trekt. "
en hoe doet hij dit? zijn de conclusies goed overwogen? is hij wel compleet eerlijk met zijn punten?
zulke vragen moet je jezelf stellen.
thinkppl 2 years ago
Klopt, die vragen stel ik ook zeker en ik ben het ook lang niet altijd eens maar dat is ook het moeilijkste als het over politiek gaat.
teeuwentv 2 years ago
dit bv staat in PVV's visie, en ik kan je vertellen hoe ongelofelijk dom en discrimineren dit is
" * Immigratiestop niet-westerse allochtonen (Marokkanen en Turken) voor 5 jaar"
hint* aziatische specialisten.
"Nieuw artikel 1 van de Grondwet: christelijk/joods/humanistische cultuur moet in Nederland dominant blijven"
ehm....nee. vrijhijds van godsdienst? daar heb je als seculaire overheid niets over te zeggen.
"Sluiten radicale moskeeën, uitzetten radicale imams"
korte termijn oplossing.
thinkppl 2 years ago
Mee eens, behalve het laatste punt. Radicalisering moet echt tegengewerkt worden en wat mij betreft ook met christendom of andere religies. Ik zie niet in waarom het laatste punt een korte termijn oplossing is want daarmee geef je een duidelijk signaal af en weten imams dat ze hier niet welkom zijn met extreme preken.
teeuwentv 2 years ago
"Mee eens, behalve het laatste punt. Radicalisering moet echt tegengewerkt..mij betreft ook met christendom of andere religies"
je bent het dus wel met mee eens, want dat was mijn punt, wilders pikt alleen de Islam eruit. dat was mijn probleem.
"Ik zie niet in waarom het laatste punt een korte termijn oplossing "
1) je imans blijven radicaal,
2) je verplaatst de radicalen alleen.
thinkppl 2 years ago
Klopt maar dan moet je je de vraag stellen waar je ze liever hebt, hier of bv in Iran of Marokko, dan kies ik voor daar. Het andere punt, de andere religies hebben we op dit moment weinig last van in Nederland dus als er een nieuw geloof komt is het logisch dat daar meer kritiek op wordt geuit dan de al ingewortelde religies, juist door het verschil.
teeuwentv 2 years ago
" De politieke elite in Nederland negeert stelselmatig de belangen en problemen van de burger. "
"De demografische ontwikkelingen zijn ronduit zorgelijk: de meerderheid van de jongeren in de grote steden is nu al van niet-westerse afkomst."
en dit is erg omdat? hint, stereotypering en het probleem ontwijkend.
"Een land met een kleinere en minder betuttelende overheid en een duurzaam sterkere economie"
SUBSIDIES!!? alsof het goedkoper korte termijn duurzaam te gaan.
thinkppl 2 years ago
Ik snap je punt maar vraag het is aan 10 mensen om je heen wat zij er van vinden. Waarschijnlijk zullen 7 of 8 mensen niet blij zijn met een meerderheid van allochtonen.
teeuwentv 2 years ago
geert is paraniod populist who feeds of the general public's lack of understanding on foreign cultures and their "they took our jobs!' fear, hence he's also anti polish. the man probably won't do anything good if he gets into government. but people jsut keep "supporting" because he's such a media and Parliament underdog, it's shining example of the stupidity of the masses. i don't hate wilders because of his critisizms of islam, i hate him because of the stupid, paranoid ways he outs them.
thinkppl 2 years ago
You should be ashamed for your username! ' a shining example of the stupidity of the masses' Ga is effe wat feiten checken man voordat je hier onzin loopt te verkondigen. Wake up and see the bigger picture!
teeuwentv 2 years ago
he, ik herken een populist als ik er een zie. wilders scheert alle moslims zowat over 1 kam, maar zegt niks over de andere religies. hij blaast een stel probleem marrokanen op en doet dat niet bij een stel probleem autochtonen. hij wint stemmen omdat veel mensen ontevreden zijn met de gevestigde partijen en dan PVV stemmen (niet alle) omdat ze die grote willen dwarsbomen. fitna was een grote quotemine en oproep op emotie. de man wil af van de euro, en een betere EU. nee, ik zie het plaatje wel.
thinkppl 2 years ago
Ben het zeker deels met je eens. Fitna was zeker gebaseerd op emotie en de euro mag van mij blijven en de coffeshops ook. Maar dat hij een stel probleem marokkanen opblaast is gewoon niet juist want kijk maar naar de cijfers en hoeveel er bekend zijn bij de politie. Dit is dus gewoon een probleem en dat moet aangepakt worden. En ik denk dat als je je een beetje verdiept in de islam dat je erachter komt dat het meer een ideologie is en de andere religies niet.
teeuwentv 2 years ago
"islam dat je erachter komt dat het meer een ideologie is en de andere religies niet. '
nee, evenveel als elke andere religie, we hebben er in het seculier europe alleen minder last van, ga jij maar eens naar the bible belt in de VS en Israel. elke religie kent zijn fundementalisten. en elke religie heeft diep bijgedragen aan de vorming van culturen, kijk maar eens om je heen in minder seculiere landen.
thinkppl 2 years ago
Klopt helemaal wat je zegt maar het gaat voor mij nu om Nederland. VS is ook niet te vergelijken met Nederland dus ik kijk nu puur naar hoe de religies zich hier uiten.
teeuwentv 2 years ago
thinkppl. En jij wauwelt gedachteloos een paar verwarde sociologen na! Xenophobie en banenverlies! Laat mij niet lachen! Ik woon in de binnenstad en heb nog nooit iets gehoord van die twee ! Het gedrag van die "paar Marrokanen" EN Turken en het totale gebrek aan enige opvoeding, ook bij nu pas 5 jarigen, is waar je mensen over hoort klagen in werkelijkheid! En de meeste die klagen maken echt wel een verschil tussen tuig en normale burgers ongeacht hun afkomst! DAT is de realiteit!
reddragonready 2 years ago
En de meeste zijn geen blindelinge volgelingen van Wilders maar gewoon blij dat tenminste EEN politicus deze punten aankaart! Ook al zegt hij ook andere dingen. Ben jij het soms blindelings eens met alles wat "jouw" partij voor staat dat je aan neemt dat anderen ook zo dom zijn?
reddragonready 2 years ago
Good video some sensible Muslim's for a change
Islam cannot tolerate criticism because it cannot defend it's disgusting doctrin
sadtranz 2 years ago
Geert Wilders was BANNED from the UK.
Geert Wilders was convicted by his own country for the crime for his words and this movie (which are spot on).
WAKE UP, ATHEIST. Get off Jesus Christ and conflating Judeo Christianity with ISLAM. One is evil and the other is Jesus. We have a battle for 10-400 yrs. We need Jesus.
Not all muslims are terrorist, but most terrorist are Muslim, driven by the QURAN. The BIBLE is not the QURAN. Don't be an ignorant ass taking old testament out of context.
gmcjetpilot 2 years ago
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WAKE UP MUSLIMS! what you believe is evil and leads to hate, murder and war. Islam was created by satan to steal you away from the truth that Jesus Christ is the real god of love, peace and forgivness. Jesus calmed a storm with a command, healed every sickness, walked on water, resurected from the dead and much more. If You still don't believe he is God, your blind, foolish and will burn when you pass on.
lastchance4you 2 years ago
Globalization can not work unless almost all of humanity or better is on the same bloody ideological page, & people everywhere evolve at different pages. The problem with the Islamic ideology is that it can not stand up against individualism, free will, liberty, freedom of expression, and criticism...let alone that religion/theism can't hold water.
Education, education, education.
Aegialeus 2 years ago 3
you nailed it.
rawnie79 2 years ago
Did I mention Stalinism or a dictatorship? No. I mentioned socialism.
You straw man me because you cannot justify a coherent position.
Ontologistics 2 years ago
Sorry, fair enough.
Though I never actually set out to debate communism, so my straw man was more accidental - I try not to make them. :) Anyway the political spectrum is the reason why Maryam is criticisng Wilders - just thought I'd answer your question.
LeftAtheist 2 years ago
Ok, fair enough.
Ontologistics 2 years ago
i agree with the lady 100%. freedom of expression should be protected at all costs.
brahminIndia 2 years ago
Only a Catholic state can resist Islam.
The West is weak and infiltrated by Islam because the Catholic Church has been abandoned! She is the cornerstone of the West!
amaqula 2 years ago
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DINDRAGON 2 years ago
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Islamic hateful lowlife fundies are better than Catholic hateful lowlife fundies because they mostly are afar.
DINDRAGON 2 years ago
If Wilders was instead a passionate moderate and put up the same exact film, would it still be touted as anti-immigration? I think these people are looking too much into his character instead of what the film is revealing, at least to a non-UK like me. Living in America, I see absolutely nothing being done by moderate Muslims against the extremists. That it takes another extremist of sorts to speak out so vocally against the atrocities being made just strikes me as deliciously ironic.
Deioth 2 years ago 3
Thank you so much for these postings. Nice to see such sharp witted minds discuss a subject.
8blkcat 2 years ago
wow im glad i watched this video its enlightening.
bajorjor1 2 years ago 2
Why criticise your allies? Wilders is not racist but against islam.
Ontologistics 2 years ago
Maryam is explaining that Wilders is missing the point - Wilders does not understand that the people of Iran, Iraq, Pakistan etc. also need help, and that going back to a conservative Christian Europe with nationalist anti-immigration is a huge step backwards.
Maryam and I, as communists, also want a secular world, and we know that the fundamentalism itself, not all immigration, must be stopped worldwide.
I wouldn't say that Wilders is a racist, but he and his party aren't progressive.
LeftAtheist 2 years ago
Oh dear,
communism is as bad as islam itself: both unfounded ideologies.
Ontologistics 2 years ago
Oh great - here we go again:
NO - I do not support Stalinism.
NO - I do not want a dictatorship - rather a democracy for the workers in a stateless, classless society.
Just thought I'd get rid of the misconceptions.
Besides, Maryam is a member of the Worker-communist Party of Iran, which is Hekmatist, so I don't know why you are complaining.
LeftAtheist 2 years ago
"going back to a conservative Christian Europe with nationalist anti-immigration is a huge step backwards."
The problem is that some (I dare say many) of those people who flee from the oppression of Islamic countries, when reachings our land of freedom decide to try and make our land pretty much the same as the hellhole they escaped from. And wilders didn't say anything about total anti-immigration, just a halt for some years because frankly it is out of control atm in many countries.
byteresistor 2 years ago
I agree that it's out of control, though I feel that it is the fault of those politicians who think that all ideas are equal (yeah, thanks a lot Tony Blair and David Milliband - two people who don't seem to understand that the left is about sensible progressive secularism, not a religious free for all).
I'm definitely the opposite to Geert Wilders on the political spectrum, but I say this:
Let him say what he wants to say! I would never vote for him - but he can say his views if he wants.
LeftAtheist 2 years ago
Ionovik are a Zionistophobic jerk.
3xtob 2 years ago
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Wilders is Zionazi racist thug.
lonovik 2 years ago
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The founder of a U.S. Muslim television network has been arrested and charged with murdering his wife by beheading her, the network's Web site and local media reported.Muzzammil Hassan, founder and CEO of Buffalo, N.Y.-based Bridges TV which launched in 2004 with a mission to show Muslims in a more positive light, she wanted a divorce
bodicatudor 2 years ago
geert s right the uk is spineless and has no balls nd will move into a dictator state an it will be all the uks fault.
cujo9 2 years ago 3
I agree with the majority of the opinions expressed by the two panelists. But as far as the film itself is concerned, from a European's point of view I can easily see the frustrations experienced by many Europeans where there is so much political correctness and lack of government support to stop the spread of radical Islam and the film expresses those feelings. Although present in a way, I therefore don't see this film's major purpose being anti immigrant.
wodun9 2 years ago 2
The petition supporting Geert Wilders has now reached 31987 signatures.
That means :
• consistent weight for Geert Wilder's defense
• support on Geert Wilder's political engagements
• consideration regarding freedom of speech
• people awareness about the global islamization process
• pain in the ass to that bunch of islamist bigots
If you're concerned with the above statements then link to the petition and sign it now!
▬►To get the link, Google "In Defense of Geert Wilders"
bernarnack 2 years ago
I was sickened watching the news yesterday when they turned Geert Wilder away. Its ridiculous, what kind of world are we living in!!?
aodancoyne 3 years ago 2
Geert Wilder pretty much summed up the UK today: more Chamberlain than Churchill. Sad, very sad.
seans10 2 years ago
WOW! intelligent Earthlings. And I thought I was the only one!
flexman22 3 years ago
heheehe same here
bajorjor1 2 years ago
erm...
pikechris1 3 years ago
1. wilders never said he wanted to throw immigrants into the sea. (nasser said about the jews though).
2. despising "wilders film" is anyones freedom of choice here, yet when i watched "his film" for the 1st time, there was hardly anything new in it i hadnt seen, read before. and surely this was not some anti islämic propaganda, on the contrary, it was "islämofascist propaganda" against the "west".
pikechris1 3 years ago
3. isläm is at least as political as christianity (or judaism) were centuries ago. remembering the inter-european religious wars? simplified; for example the result of those developments was the constitution of the US.
4. →6:55+ this is exactly what we all (i assume) here are against, including the controversial dutch politician and the discussion participants.
pikechris1 3 years ago
yet again, i dont understand how the participants came to most of their "anti-wilders" conclusions. perhaps he is less secular and more right wing when compared to this panel and some kind of a centrist european position, however when compared to the US and especially middle east he would still be considered moderate.
the bottom line is, if someone seeks asylum from oppression, they will hardly try to impose the same conditions they have escaped from, on their new societies...
pikechris1 3 years ago
you hit that point very well :)
bajorjor1 2 years ago
How does the political islam get into Europe? By immigration from islamic countries. How do you stop the political islam in Europe? By stopping the immigration from islamic countries.
Why shoud Europe allow political islam to grow in Europe? It's not Europes responsibility to solve problems of political islam.
huusis 3 years ago
I don't think she believes the video was caring the famous line "all Muslims are terrorists" either.
Its political. They want to attract Muslim opinion with it. Maybe getting on some people against Islams nerves is also what they want.
TooDrunkToCare808 3 years ago
mariam namazie must be executed and beheaded for insulting islam! she is definately a bitch ....she does not know that europe is going to be ruled by islam..
samgee2007 3 years ago
And you should go off and live by yourself in the forest if you really think this.
ArranoGris 3 years ago
Europe ruled by islam? You'll need to whipe out all white people living here first, good luck with that you filthy carpetflying towelhead...
noibn2 3 years ago
i think the white people of Europe are kinda tired of wars since they got lots of it in the past, i think they are somewhat enlightened people and learned from history, I wonder how long the terrorist provocation can turn them back to the great warrior type people as their ancestors were
bajorjor1 2 years ago 2
We wont go as low as them, and they use that.
Nashy119 3 years ago
Fantastic argumentation on the part of Myriam. Thanks for your comments on this subject.
pokeralho2008 3 years ago
You want to attack Islam in a peaceful manner? GET OFF YOUR OIL ADDICTION. Their deserts have no value without oil. Abject poverty and starvation will destroy their threat. Everytime you fill up your car with gasoline you're pouring money into Islam. Look at Dubai. It's spectacular but there's something seriously wrong with the situation if you think about it. YOUR money built Dubai.
warren52nz 3 years ago
Islam is a plague of the mind. Just like any other religion, only its amazing how much more caustic this one is. We can only hope that Islamic culture gets penetrated by modernity and that it will slowly erode their bronze age beliefs before they impinge upon the freedoms of modern civilization.
personalsinr 3 years ago 3
anyway islam rule the world! we should behead those who don't follow islamic law! you have no place in this world you non bealievers
samgee2007 3 years ago
Thank you for showing us all that Islam is a religion of peace.
kshackleton 3 years ago
I like hot rotel and velveeta.
BoozyBeggar 3 years ago
me too, with funyuns
ArranoGris 3 years ago
Can you do us a favor and go get in a bike accident or something? I think your organs would be put to much better use keeping someone with more than 2 ounces of brain matter alive.
ArranoGris 3 years ago
To criticism, everything must submit.
Chemicalogic 3 years ago
I've stated my opposition to Geert, as well as my opposition to islam fundamentalism itself. I will never fall into the trap of nationalists, fascists, racists and extremists of all kind who use the fear of islam to justify their agenda, or to gain power & popularity.Terrorists are a threat, not muslims, not ethnic groups. Extreme-right wingers are a threat too, and we are not forced to help them in order to fight the good fight...
itsbizbuz 3 years ago
itsbizbuz, I think your definition of the term "threat" is somewhat limited, in that you appear to use it in direct reference to a physical terrorist attack. Wilders' opinion regarding Islam is completely, 100% justified. The "threat" that Islam brings to the Netherlands, isn't merely the fact that it is a twisted ideology, it is also a battle of demographics. The Dutch Muslims and Muslim migrants respectively, are giving birth at a far greater pace than Dutch nationals are.
bettySwollox 3 years ago
bettySwollox : So babies are a threat just by being born muslims or from extranational parents ? What do you propose ? Sterilize their parents or just gas the babies ? I'm from France, the country with the most important arab, muslim, jewish communities of Europe, and it's not that bad. You talk about twisted ideologies, how about nationalism, fascism, and other religions ? You think the catholic church is not twisted ? Do you want to forbid religion ? And impose eugenics ?
itsbizbuz 3 years ago
how can one be born Muslim? Is Islam an ethnicity now, like the Jews?
exist209 3 years ago
RE: exist209
I think he/she means they are 'born into the faith' - they didn't choose it when they were young. That maybe true, but they have the choice to leave the religion when they are old enough and left home - there is a HUGE amount of information out there, if they remain with Islam knowing all the hate and bigotry in the religion, then quite frankly, they're as guilty as the extremists.
kaiwaig 3 years ago
itsbizbuz I actually had a second part to my argument. I don't know where it went? I posted it, but it's disappeared, either way, it appears as though you have now taken advantage of this fact, by completely and utterly misrepresenting my last post. Therefore, I will post it again, and then I will deal with your latest reply. (previous comment continued...) This poses a number of problems on a number of factors, such as benefit claims, education, jobs, housing and of course bigger communities
bettySwollox 3 years ago
(cont.).....these communities cut themselves off from Dutch society, many of which can not even speak Dutch after living here for 10 years. The education of children within these communities suffers, which in turn results in Dutch society, as a whole, suffering too.
bettySwollox 3 years ago
itsbizbus. Now I will respond to your comment - which began and ended with an absurd straw man argument, which I will ignore - where you compared France's multicultrualism to the rest of Europe.
Firstly, comments like "the most important.....communities.." and "not that bad" are very ambiguous, and should be avoided in a conversation. But what is your point here anyway?
You have ended your comment with a number of questions that have been plucked completely out of thin air. Why stop there?
bettySwollox 3 years ago
itsbizbuz I'm sure you could make up another few hundred questions (which isn't an argument by the way) and post them to me, which I would be happy to answer in another debate, in the meantime, we were talking about Islam in the Netherlands, and not about which ideologies I believe to be twisted or not, as that list is possibly endless.
bettySwollox 3 years ago
Ignorant men love Islam because they can claim power within Sharia law. They can rape women, marry children, murder and force regular people to give them undue respect. Outside Islam, in the real World, those ignorant men would just be stupid men that wear dresses. Nobody wants a violent man who justifies beating women. Nobody wants a man who thinks marrying and raping children is acceptable. In the real World those men would be in PRISON. Islam is evil and must be banished. Islam is a disease.
kaduisaui 3 years ago
well done geert , and a word 4 the great pat condell
lllnnn333 3 years ago
At 0:30 and 1:08 I hear Ms. Namazie say how political Islam is calling its opponents racist.
At 1:51 she joins this habit and adds fascism and "throwing people into the sea".
I wonder what film Ms. Namazie has been watching.
skeptic551 3 years ago
To me this vidoe just reinforces my belief that 90% of humanity is sick and tired of this whole, My religion vs. Your religion BS. Most people just want to live, it's the minority of bloodthirsty self righteous zealots who want death and rapture. Islam is not alone in this, how often have you heard accept Jesus or burn in hell, it's exactly the same thing.
popecorkyxxiv 3 years ago
Sharia Law brings hell to earth for women. ie: Blocking exits as school girls are trying to escape a burning building because they didnt have their faces covered. Cutting off the heads of 3 teen girls on their way to school. Killing teachers in Iraq who were trying to teach girls. Attacking a missionary school in India killing 6 students. How is threatning hell and actually implementing hell on earth the same thing? The Quran gives men in Islam the authority to rule women with an iron fist.
Ensureqwerty 3 years ago
I think you're right, Ensureqwerty, it's not the same thing. Christianity had its hay day of enforced belief up until 300 or so years ago and has been "gradually" losing its influence since. Even now, the fight with Christianity is not over. Islamic countries, however, are just now entering the equivalent to the western worlds 17th century enlightenment period with most Muslims still holding fervent beliefs in their stories and understandings of the nature of reality. The fight has just begun.
1140Cecile 3 years ago
Islam is buying it's way into the international communities through funding from Saudi Arabia. In the past, Islam was just another bullshit copycat religion from the desert and it only hurt those involved. It was stuck in the desert. Now Saudi Arabia has all the money to spread Islam, to wage a systematic campaign of invasion and demographic war against the rest of the World. With all the funding needed to buy politicians, build mosques and import Islamic fascists, Islam will rule the World.
kaduisaui 3 years ago
I believe you're correct, kaduisaui, and the secular western world must remain very vigilant in their fight against this backward religion's encroachment into the west. We're already seeing both countries and the U.N. cowtowing to Muslim sentiments regarding criticism of their religion or even the publication of images of their so-called prophet. I would like to see annual marches of people fighting against things like Sharia law with protesters carrying banners with pictures of Mohammed.
1140Cecile 3 years ago
I agree 1140Cecile. We are already slaves to Israel. The American Government will do anything for Israel because the Jewish lobby pumps so much money into each politician's pocket. The same thing will happen with Islam and Muslim money from Saudi Arabia. Soon there will be mega mosques everywhere and Islamic prayers will be mandatory in school. What ever happened to the separation between church and sate? The violent religion of peace invades then cries victim and discrimination. Sharia rules!
kaduisaui 3 years ago
Yes, well we just can't keep sitting back and keep accepting politically correct legislation. While I'm Canadian, I think that the American Declaration of Independence and Consitution are two relatively great documents that could form the basis of a world system. Thomas Jefferson recognized the evils inherent in religion and worked to ensure that religion would never hold sway in American society. Now we are more and more one world and we should be championing such principles internationally.
1140Cecile 3 years ago
'Backward religion', that's kinda redundant, isn't it? ;)
forger42 3 years ago
Touche! Good point.
1140Cecile 3 years ago
All religions are good for the man, bad for the woman.
kaduisaui 3 years ago
All religions are bad.
wwickeddogg 3 years ago 3
I'm not denying that those things happen, but ask yourself this: does every Islamic man want this kind of thing to happen or have a small number of extremists hijacked the legal system and enforced their own ideals? Sharia law is evil, but I do not believe that it reflects the true nature of Islam, just as I do not believe the Inquistition reflected the true nature of Christianity.
Evil people do evil things regardless of religion; for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
popecorkyxxiv 3 years ago
It's not just the Inquistion that was the problem with Christianity over the centuries. Whenever Christian countries invaded a new territory they would compel people to convert to their religion. They held back the general knowledge of all science that didn't conform with their teachings regarding creation and geo-centrism. They punished philosophers who dared offer alternative views on the nature of reality. Christianity, like all Abrahamic religions, is an extremely negative world force.
1140Cecile 3 years ago 2
The one and only, and I mean the one and only thing that America has over the any other country I've heard of is freedom of speech, even though cops tend to not know what the fuck it means and will arrest you pretyy much just for looking at something in a way they don't like..
BoozyBeggar 3 years ago
Yeah, cops here in California have a stick up their ass apparently.
berrypievision2 3 years ago
What a great 4 minutes of straight common sense from the woman. I could not have put it better myself. I am so sick to death of minority religions and cultures utilizing Governments to push their pathetic victim stances to gain power. How blind are Governments! The freedom to question and criticize is critical to run a democracy. No one has the right to be free of criticism in a democracy!
pdslt 3 years ago 4
Great comment! I agree with you 300% Criticism is harmless and promotes good ideas and dialogue. Mandating and limiting what people can say towards any topic is effectively stopping progress much like holding back the entire university from graduating because there was a percentage of students that did not learn their curriculum.
Certainly criticism of government can also strengthen it as well as it will be able to adapt to new and hopefully better ideas and procedures.
x1tekja 3 years ago 2
I thnk it's time for another "Fuck Islam Week"
>:-)
Scrapheap71 3 years ago
Absolutely!!! Let's do it, and soon, a Fuck Christianity Week.
torresut 3 years ago
totally agree.
hellonub1 3 years ago
Fuck Islam! I said it, and I'm not a racist....like so many religious people
Fuck ALL religions!
exist209 3 years ago 3
Totally agree. Religion is a fucking disease that needs to be kept out of the public. A personal belief is fine, but when they start demanding rights (and use the discriminated-minority-card to get it) is when I feel real hatred towards all religions.
Rapfanatic 3 years ago 2
Exactly. Well put. It's like the school prayer BS. Kids can pray at recess and lunch if they want....oh the poor decriminated against Christians, with their poor martar Jesus...we should all feel bad for them and never discipline them when thay act up...
Imagine No Religion too,...John Lennon
Religion is thought control, tyranny, and a false sense of community/family
exist209 3 years ago 2
I agree. Religion has been given the Get out of Jail Free Card for too long. Every organization on Earth can be criticized except religion.
SpazzyMcGee1336 3 years ago 3
people should know that EVERYTHING/ONE gets criticism, and most people are hypocrites when it comes to criticism.
Quionic7 3 years ago
What is wrong with people saying religion is superstition? Well other people might hear and believe it and walk away from religion thats why.
Who will make the holy tomato sauce for our great and wise Flying Spaghetti Monster if that happens?
mrlurp 3 years ago
The court decision has increased Wilders' popularity. A new poll gives the Freedom Party 20 seats in parliament, as against the nine it currently holds. Whatever the outcome, Wilders' notoriety is likely to increase. If convicted, many will view him as a martyr, in light of increasing evidence that the greatest threat to humanity - including to moderate and dissident Muslims - indeed comes from the world of Islam.
danielnz1 3 years ago
If Wilders is acquitted, many will begin to repeat his statements. In either case the Amsterdam court may have opened a Pandora's box of a yet-unknown size.
danielnz1 3 years ago
Whoever suggested prosecuting Wilders was giving some BAD advice.
PiroNiro 3 years ago
All it did was give his phony group more support. Bad move. Plus hate speech laws, a thing he advocates as well, are stupid.
berrypievision2 3 years ago
PiroNiro, I actually think that "the court's decision to start a criminal prosecution for the incitement to hatred and discrimination", is fantastic! I mean, think about it. How far will the lawyers have to go to build their defence for Wilders? Not very far at all, they simply have to pick up a copy of the Qur'an and recite the disgusting passages from within it, finally exposing Islam for what it actually is.
bettySwollox 3 years ago
eg: The lawyers could quote Sheikh Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi of Al-Azhar University in Cairo, the highest-ranking cleric in the Sunni world, who has come out in favor of suicide bombings. Tantawi has also called Jews the descendants of apes and pigs. Only the choice of animals differs from Nazi language; they preferred rats and vermin. Sheikh Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, living in Qatar, is a spiritual leader of the Muslim Brotherhood who has approved suicide bombings.
danielnz1 3 years ago 2
The Quran regards women as social inferiors and enshrines this inferiority in inheritance, divorce rights and status as a witness. Sharia law is at least consistent with the Quran in this regard.
danielnz1 3 years ago
She is brilliant.
Domidoolalala 3 years ago 3
great woman: Maryam Namazie!
sensualdog2 3 years ago 2
respect :)
AtheistPakistani 3 years ago
I think the criticism of Wilders agenda and most of the film is correct, he is after all a rightwing fucktard, However lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. Fitna does expose some truths with regards to fundies and their agenda!
acme181169 3 years ago
"A fascist right wing person that wants to throw imigrants into the sea..."?
WTF???
Where did she get the idea that Wilders wants this?
bettySwollox 3 years ago
@bettyswollox, Sounds a lot like "If in doubt, make shit up"
jaycek 3 years ago
Sure does jaycek!
bettySwollox 3 years ago
Wilders is a far-right wing politician with a racist programme. He doesn't even want this people entering your country.
So read your Dutch newspapers more carefully and with a skeptic mind.
creationismisstupid 3 years ago
creationismisstupid, you are right, Wilders is right wing, but far right wing? When compared to his former party's position, yes, I woud agree, he was certainly somewhat more to the right. But how far are you going to the right? And what "racist programme" are you talking about? Yes, he is a Nationalist, yes he has his own view on immigration and multiculturalism, but how is that racist?
bettySwollox 3 years ago 2
BettySwollox: It would be racist, if you were to simply have a black and white policy towards a particular creed, ethnic group or religion. For example, if he were to adopt a policy that said "stop all Morrocoans from entering the country", as oppposed to simply evaluating candidates based on merit, that would be fairly racist. It's your ability to differentiate within groups.
whenindoubtdo 3 years ago
whenindoubtdo, thanks for you comment. Yes indeed you are correct, if Wilders was hell-bent on singling out a particular nation - such as Morroco - and refusing them entry to the Netherlands - based on their race - would be a position based on race. However, Islam is not a race of people. It is firstly an ideology, it is a law based on canonic principles, it is a form of government, and lastly it is a religion. Its ideology should be criticized, but to do so is racist? I don't get it?
bettySwollox 3 years ago
@Betty: Wilder advocates a policy of zero immigration from Muslim nations. That to me is fairly racist as it doesn't differentiate between people.
And of course, criticising isn't racism, however you and I know that criticising Islam is sometimes a mask for racism or zenophobic feelings. (Just take a look at Youtube).
whenindoubtdo 3 years ago
Is it racist to be against Muslims and Christians from Muslim nations?
wwickeddogg 3 years ago